User talk:The Drover's Wife/Archive 1

Hi and welcome!
Hi there! I just wanted to drop by and say you're doing a great job with these Queensland political articles. I hope you'll stick around; we've been short-handed at the Australian politics project of late and we're in desperate need of some new faces. Keep up the great work! Frickeg (talk) 03:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Member lists
I mentioned this briefly over at WT:AUP, but I'm just playing around with it at this stage and am very much open to input. The idea behind it is to be able to expand the lists into something that could potentially be recognised as Featured (obviously a long way to go here). The colours (which are actually quite aesthetically pleasing to my eyes - different strokes, I guess) provide easier at-a-glance identification, although I'm open to persuasion on them (they were inspired by the US tables). The images, I would have thought, are pretty standard for lists of this kind (List of Australian Leaders of the Opposition is probably the most comparable recognised content). But as I said, I'm definitely open to suggestions and input. Frickeg (talk) 12:56, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

A few things
What's the rationale behind adding parties to succession boxes? I'm not sure they're quite necessary ... on another note, your input would be appreciated at the Senate splinter of the full results pages discussion, here. Frickeg (talk) 08:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect it might be a little too much information for what succession boxes are meant to be, which is basically a tool for navigation. I don't think it's ever been standard. Frickeg (talk) 09:27, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve Lyle Schuntner
Hi, I'm Alanl. The Drover&#39;s Wife, thanks for creating Lyle Schuntner!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. just tagging so others can see page needs expansion

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Proposed message when tagging a new page
After some discussion and some thought on help avoid the issue you experienced in the future, I have suggested to the tool developers that an hint be given in the page curation tool to hint to the patroller that the page is still new, and to consider waiting before tagging the page. (See [|bug 40580] to see the progress of this change.) Would you mind reviewing the draft message below and suggest any changes before it becomes final? Also, the proposal is for this message for pages that are less than 60 minutes old. Do you feel this is sufficient time, and if not, how much time would you suggest? "...a small indicator text below the headings "Add tags" and "Mark for Deletion" in the curation toolbar, like this:

Note: This page is only (x) minutes old. The user may still be working on it, so consider waiting before tagging it if the issues are fixable"

You can reply here and I will pass your suggestions to the developers. Alanl (talk) 04:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's not a bad idea. But I also think these tools have to be used a bit more sensibly, as someone else commented in the previous discussion - daubing a referenced, four-paragraph article that contains all central details to that topic and has no urgent need for expansion in "stub" and "referencing" tags isn't a terribly useful endeavour. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

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project tags
It seems for your bio articles other editors are doing the project tagging for you - well worth having a look at what they are doing on the talk pages - not that difficult to do - cheers   SatuSuro 01:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * simple request - look at the talk pages of the pages you have created - you are, by your creating the articles - a member of the Australian project - enjoy it and learn something. If you feel that happy about not wanting to look - lack of project tags makes your additions to the Australian project just that bit more of other people having to follow your edits and cleanup.  cheers SatuSuro 04:54, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Also - when you are doing a living person - the WP Bio project tag is important for reasons which will be obvious when you look at a talk page of a living person that has been tagged correctly. SatuSuro 04:59, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

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 * Bruce Flegg (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links pointing to David Watson (Australian politician) and Liberal National Party


 * Ted Malone (Australian politician) (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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AfD discussion
is excessive any only has a few participants, which can continue on the talk page. it is really distracting to others, what we want is more votes to gain consensus either way, no long winded arguments. please do not continually add back in. LibStar (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * they are not deleted but moved to a more appropriate space. AfDs are not for 20,000 character plus arguments. LibStar (talk) 00:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * sure it's based on arguments, but 99.99% of people are not going to read long winded arguments. we want more participants placing their !votes with arguments. LibStar (talk) 00:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * do you agree that most AfD participants are not interested in reading long winded arguments? LibStar (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * because you didn't like me moving excessive text is reason to go to ANI? LibStar (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen it done in other AfDs, and put a note in main article where this discussion is located. LibStar (talk) 00:29, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

discussion can continue on the talk page, the page is not frozen. so if i didn't use rollback would you have gone to ANI? LibStar (talk) 00:32, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Victorian by-elections
I've been compiling this massive Excel file for over a year, but never had the time to wikify it, so I was delighted to see you had done that part of it! For the sources, I was initially using a dump of the MP listing on re-member, which contained a "b/e" indicator where the MP was elected in a by-election, to work out the seats and the year they took place although the dates were usually non-specific so required further research to work out the date and the reason. That was time-consuming, but I stumbled upon A Handbook of Australian Government and Politics by Colin A. Hughes, which has the results of all Australian elections going back to the 1800s (I was using it to do a few more Victorian state election articles earlier than the 1970s), but it also has notes of which seats subsequent to a general election held a by-election, the dates and the winning party. Once I have the date, I check the old and new MP on re-member, and other details in the Victorian Government Gazette and Trove to double check the dates and so on. Sometimes if I have time and I can find final results on Trove I will do a quick article such as the Fitzroy 1925 one. --Canley (talk) 04:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It goes back to 1910, big gap, then 1864 to 1857. I've got 124 listed (including cancelled ones mentioned on AUSPOL talk page). As I said, I've got all the material to fill the gaps but have been only been working on it occasionally, however today's discussion may encourage me to finish of the list. --Canley (talk) 05:03, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

move victorian by-election stuff
Thanks for filling out the Victorian by-election article. The narration for the Warrnambool by-election of 1983 says Resigned in unsuccessful attempt to win Liberal preselection for Wannon at the 1983 federal election. Can you double-check this? I imagine it might instead have been in order to win Liberal preselection for the Wannon by-election, 1983: I doubt Smith would have chosen to contest pre-selection against an incumbent PM!

Also, when you update a member list in an article, e.g. at Electoral district of Caulfield, don't forget to update the results list too. Thanks. Miracle Pen (talk) 15:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

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 * List of Victorian state by-elections (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links pointing to John Cain, George Seitz and Carlo Carli


 * Electoral district of Yeerongpilly (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added a link pointing to Liberal National Party

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Young
A while ago you changed my living politicians page saying William Young died in November. For the life of me I can't find it online, or the exact date. Any light to shed? His page still has him as living. Frickeg (talk) 03:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

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Electorates
Why are you removing the dates from these and replacing them with years? I've gone to a lot of trouble to be accurate. As for the red-link members, I am working first on the electorates and then coming back to so some basic stubs on the members. Kerry (talk) 04:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I went to quite a bit of trouble to disambiguate all the links pointing to the members. If I have missed some, happy to have them pointed out. However, there are other Qld electorate pages written by others that have links for members, which obviously I have not disambiguated. Kerry (talk) 07:18, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

That's what I am going to be doing, but since getting all the electorates and the members with pages is a pretty large job (months of work I anticipate), I am first filling in the electorates working forward by the dates of the redistributions and then sorting out the members alphabetically, which means I should end up with a page for every member and all the links off the electorate pages (and any others I can find) will point to them. I have a systematic plan, just evidently different to the order you would do things. Kerry (talk) 20:01, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

As I already said, I have been pointing the links at existing member articles where they exist. E.g. Edward Archer from Electorate of Normanby. If I have missed some of them, let me know but I have been looking for them. And I don't see what any of this has to do with dates. Exact dates are better than years because 1) any reader can trivially map an exact day to a year but not vice versa (i.e. info loss) 2) periods of representation do not occur along year boundaries 3) there are by-elections and there can be more than one in an electorate in the same year 4) there are multi-member electorates and it is difficult to see co-representation without exact dates 5) if any historian is trying to get more information on elections, candidates etc, then they need exact dates to provide a better entry point into resources like newspapers (scanning a year's worth of microfilm takes forever, an exact date makes it much easier) 6) I do not know why other people may have only provided years, it may be that the source material they had available only provided that information but I do have more accurate sources. Sure, some readers (and sadly some editors) might not think precise dates important (for events that happen on precise days as elections do) but I think any historian would think them so. I will try to go through and update the existing entries with precise dates but again I can only do so many things at one time and I think filling in the missing electorates may of which have been redlinked for a long time is the best place to start. 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, I see you're asking other people to complain about my work too. OK, fine, I'll leave the electorates alone. Go ahead and delete everything I've done. I didn't realise I had to be a member of some clique to edit Wikipedia. No wonder we have an editor retention problem. Kerry (talk) 19:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

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Sort of ...
Thank you! And likewise, may I say; I've been enjoying your work on Queensland and Victorian state MPs. Something of a ratbag leftie communist run for me at the moment, since their candidates are almost always serial and almost as often notable in some way. Frickeg (talk) 13:09, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Whoops, thanks! Frickeg (talk) 00:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Monaro 1999
It was due to the redistribution. Monaro's boundaries were shifted so they included an area from a neighboring district that had a Liberal candidate in 1995, so that's why numbers like this show up sometimes. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 02:20, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

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Auburn
Yes, I think that's right that there's 2 EFF candidates there, according to both Antony Green's reference paper and here. I've noticed that in the 1980's and earlier, some parties allowed 2 candidates to run for the same electorate. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 11:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Electorates
Thanks for your note about my work on the early Victorian Legislative Council electorates. I'm getting better at using Paint.NET now! (the "magic" feature is very handy to copy electorates). I've also found some good reference maps and material at State Library of Victoria and the county maps of Australia at the NLA e.g. Counties of Follett, Dundas etc. Diverman (talk) 11:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Ringwood
Hi, nice pick up that Electoral district of Ringwood (Victoria) was missing. I've now created it and fixed up/created links to it for the Electoral districts of Victoria, Norman Lacy and Kay Setches articles. Diverman (talk) 21:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hospitals in Perth template
Mandurah is not within Perth. Landgate maps show that the Perth's metropolitan region ends at the Rockingham/Mandurah LGA boundary, as does the WA planning commission. - Evad37 (talk) 02:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
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 * politics in July 2010 in an unsuccessful attempt to win the federal seat of Division of Canning Canning at the 2010 federal election, served as mayor of

N. Varvaris
I'm not sure about this change. Although the St George and Sutherland Shire Leader has "Nick Varvaris", the Sydney Morning Herald has "Nickolas Varvaris" and The Australian has "Nic Varvaris". Given that diversity, it would seem best to go with the full name. StAnselm (talk) 01:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Robert Brown
Hey, you're talking to the person that had Duncan Kerr listed as dead for a whole month. :) Frickeg (talk) 08:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

SA
I can't find the names of the candidates anywhere online for the 1993 election. Antony Green's archives only have their surnames, and Adam Carr's website doesn't have the 1993 election either. I'll have to find a book somewhere that has that info, which will probably be in late November when I have the extra time. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 14:45, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Ron Brown
You removed Ron Brown from my list of living MPs a while ago saying he'd been dead for a while. I've created a stub for him but can't find a death date (the Tasmanian Parliament appears to have forgotten to update his entry, as they do from time to time). Any ideas? Frickeg (talk) 07:50, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice job! And even that's only an approximate date. Presumably it was mentioned in Hansard at some point ... this may be one for the stacks. Frickeg (talk) 14:49, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've just finished a big chunk of uni work, and this (together with updating some off-wiki stuff) is my reward. Frickeg (talk) 06:13, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Mitcham 1970
Whoops, sorry about that. I've fixed it now. Thanks for letting me know. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 10:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

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November 2013
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 * Yokine]] as an independent at the 1996 state election . He returned to politics in 2007 as a councillor and later Deputy Mayor of the [[Town of

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Jack Mundey
Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you about this one. According to Antony Green's results page here, he said that Mackerras listed him as a Communist while Hughes listed him as Socialist Alternative. If there's no way the SA party existed back then, I guess it's safe to change it to Communist for now. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 05:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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Death of Jamie Gao
Hello. I see that you have removed notability and speedy delete tags from Death of Jamie Gao. I can understand why you removed the speedy tag, but why was the notability tag removed? In particular, 88.112.50.121 added the notability tag and said in the edit summary "a drug deal gone bad, how is this encyclopedic? Wikipedia is not news" I agree with his statement because neither the victim nor the murder were truly important enough for an encyclopedia. What are your opinions? Thanks Piguy101 (talk) 21:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The murder isn't notable for the victim, but for the alleged killers, and is receiving a bucketload more coverage than your average drug killing on that basis. Roger Rogerson is possibly the most notorious disgraced police officer in Australian history, someone who has repeatedly beat attempts to charge him with various violent crimes, and in recent years has made himself a celebrity out of those things. The other alleged killer is a well-known ex-whistleblower on police corruption. As a result, the public interest in this case - reflected in the amount of coverage all over every mainstream media source in the country - is far greater than your average drug killing and likely to stay that way. I also think, pre-empting the suggestion, that it wouldn't be a good fit for the Rogerson article, as a) having appropriate coverage of the trial would lead to undue weight on the Gao trial over everything else in Rogerson's story, and b) would disproportionately focus Wikipedia coverage on Rogerson over his also kinda notable co-accused, which feels like a BLP issue to me. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, the murder is controversial for its murderers. Perhaps the article should be edited to note that and to explain the notability of the murder. Piguy101 (talk) 19:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Townend et al.
Hi, and thank you! They're all candidates for parliament at some point or other (I have a ridiculously large word file that covers all federal candidates, NSW ones back to the 19th century, and the rest of the states at least some of the way back). For a while I was just doing Trove searches for each candidate for federal elections and seeing what I came up with. At the moment I'm working through the Australian Women's Register looking at female candidates; they have a lot of entries for non-notable people (for our purposes) but they also tend to suggest when someone is notable. They have a list of all the female candidates for NSW parliament that I'm working through at the moment; I believe they have something similar for Victoria (but not federally, frustratingly!). :) Frickeg (talk) 20:42, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Keating
FYI - The IP editor removed your comment entirely from the talkpage. Timeshift (talk) 03:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem; I get it, believe me. Hope your back is better soon! Frickeg (talk) 08:23, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

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June 2014
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 * 1880s. Wallace Post Office opened on 2 October 1885 and closed on 26 February 1993. Cite web  | last = Premier Postal History  | title = Post Office List | url = https://www.

Bucking Bull
Thanks for the note; all I know about Australian-specific food is vitameatavegimin (or whatever that paste stuff is that my friends in Frankston VIC talk about seeing in the stores), so I knew nothing about this company. As it stands right now, it's a great A7-speedy candidate, so after restoring it, I moved it to User:The Drover's Wife/Bucking Bull lest it be retagged and redeleted before you can improve it. Nyttend (talk) 04:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Categorisation of political parties
I notice your recent reversions of my edits, and subsequent re-categorisations, eg,. I'm not an expert on politics, so I don't know whether the parties concerned are state-specific or not; I was merely assuming that the sub-category (Qld) was correct, and therefore the supercategory (Au) was redundant per WP:SUBCAT's. I'm happy to accept your assertion that they are "not just in Queensland", but there are other similar redundantly-categorised articles, eg Palmer United Party (not necessarily just in Qld). I had planned to work my way through Category:Political parties in Australia and "fix" them all (I have way too much time on my hands ), but stopped when notified of your reverts. Clearly it would inefficient for me to remove the super-cat and then have you revert and instead remove the sub-cat, but I don't have the political knowledge to know which cat is appropriate to remove, nor the inclination or time to check. (I don't have that much time on my hands.) We should do something to fix the problem though - any suggestions? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

In case it wasn't blatantly obvious to you ...
... waiting ... Pdfpdf (talk) 14:20, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

(FYI: I'm NOT going to let you blatantly insult me in a public forum.)


 * Oh come on! Do I have to take this to ANI? Get off your arse and either "put up" or "shut up". In case it wasn't effing obvious to you, I'm NOT going to let this one "pass through to the keeper". Pdfpdf (talk) 15:22, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm off to bed. Given your recaltricance (What would we do without Paul Keating?) unless you give me a reason not to, when I return to WP I'll be off to ANI. (It is completely unacceptable to insult someone in a public forum.) Pdfpdf (talk) 15:42, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * How bizarre! I don't have any argument with you. But ... "I'm NOT going to let you blatantly insult me in a public forum." Pdfpdf (talk) 15:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! Are you on a crusade to prove you have no brains, that you reject WP:AGF and WP:Consensus, and that the only thing that is important to you is to make a WP:POINT? Pdfpdf (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * P.S. Good night. There's nothing further you can do that can't be undone in the morning. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm: ... STILL waiting for your apology and withdrawal ... (As I said, "I'm NOT going to ... ") Pdfpdf (talk) 13:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're still posting on my talk page. You were re-adding blatant original research to an article, I asked you not to, and then after someone else also did you apparently decided to stop, which is great. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * If you're "not sure" why I'm still waiting, then do your homework. This has NOTHING to do with WP:OR, it is about you leaving unsupported insults in public fora. As I've said what seems like a dozen times, (but isn't), "put up", or withdraw, or I'm off to ANI. Why do I need to constantly repeat myself to you? (And no, that is NOT a rhetorical question.) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * P.S. FYI: At some stage I will lose patience with you, I will withdraw my assumptions of good faith, and I WILL go to ANI. I have given you NUMEROUS opportunities to avoid this - if I end up at ANI, it will be as a result of YOUR choice. Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I have literally no idea what you're talking about. I have no desire to get into an argument with you though. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, last time I WP:AGF it advanced the situation, so I will do so again.
 * But before I start, like I did then, I'll emphasise that I'm encouraged by your response.
 * However, I am somewhat confused by your statement: I have no desire to get into an argument with you though. If that is indeed the case, then why (at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics) did you make the statement/comment:

Disappointing, but is not the first time Pdfpdf has refused to heed other editors and Wikipedia policies generally. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * To which, by the way, I IMMEDIATELY responded:
 * b) Drover's wife: Your response is false. What is your evidence for that extremely offensive comment? Either provide evidence immediately, or withdraw and apologise.

I hope all is now clear to you. If not, please don't hesitate to ask for further clarification.Pdfpdf (talk) 14:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Look, you're spoiling for a fight, and you're not going to find one here. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * No. You are quite wrong. YOU made the initial unjustified, unsupported accusation. I'm looking for an apology and withdrawal. I have given you what feels like infinite opportunities. Perhaps I should have gone straight to ANI?
 * This is your VERY last chance. I have run out of both patience AND goodwill. I unambiguously emphasise THIS IS YOUR CHOICE! Pdfpdf (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Given that you have provided NO response, I WILL, at my convenience, complain about your behavior at ANI, and as etiquette requires, I will post something here to inform you.


 * However, your latest vindictive stupidity at AFD is HIGHLY ENTERTAINING. You don't even have a sore toe to stand on, so it will go down in flames. The only thing of interest to me is if you avoid a block for your unfounded vindictive personal attack.
 * If YOU wish, we can productively improve Wikipedia. On the other hand, if YOU wish you can attack me; however, you will NOT "WIN" (if that is your aim.) You see, I don't care what happens to me - if I'm blocked, I'm blocked. C'est la vie. But, there is NO way in the world I'm going to allow you to get away with bad behaviour.
 * So, once again, YOU have a choice. Maybe this time you should use your brains and think it through? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * BTW: I expect you have yet to realise that I don't have a life, and I derive great entertainment from making it blatently obvious just how stupid the behaviour of some editors is. Yes, it's sad, isn't it. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

--
If making sure that an article is baffling and irrelevant to people who aren't Australian politics nerds is what turns you on, then carry on, I hope it brings you mindblowing pleasure. 190.44.133.67 (talk) 06:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Bellevue
In my office/if you saw my office/donte expect any easy answer to that. imho Greenmount Road board history is close to irrelevent in the Bellevue article. satusuro 10:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * apart from some very impatient people who dont understand how wikipedia works, the average editor at some time or other gets to be told there is no deadline - there is even an essay. Real life beckons. Good night. for the moment. satusuro 11:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * the Bellevue article - I started it, but I dont WP:OWN the article - do what you like - as to the issue of the verifiability, take care... I had said There is no deadline - when I happen to be in a libary where another copy will be, I will at my leasure check the details, I do have a copy, and I know the book very well, but you seem to be on a different time scale. Try WP:AGF and take care when questioning others edits, hmmm. take it easy. satusuro 09:58, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Last reply - I have a messy office I cannot find the book, I know it (having read it 4x ion the last 20 years), and I do not wish to converse any further with you - your impatience is annoying and you dont seem to get the message. Please. satusuro 10:54, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Activists
Thanks! They're great fun too, although it takes forever since I just go through and Google every single candidate until I find notable ones that have enough info to write on (the other clearly notable people with nothing worthwhile online get filed in the "When I Have a Week to Spare at a Big Library" folder). My master document is approaching 1,000 pages at 8 point with 42cm-high pages, and apart from NSW and Tasmania only includes the states back to the 1990s. Frickeg (talk) 08:34, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I fail at both typing and proofreading today apparently. Thanks for cleaning up after me! Frickeg (talk) 11:11, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Gleeson was interesing - although, despite a bit of googling, I couldn't find anything (or nothing that counts as reliable for our purposes - just our member list, actually!) that actually mentioned her cause of death; Batchelor, in his maiden speech, seemed to be almost deliberately dancing around it, although it's probably only because that's what I was looking for. (I was also prompted to go looking for the by-election results, only to find they're not online - another one for the library list.) Frickeg (talk) 11:59, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

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Sorry, but I'm confused
On Articles for deletion/List of Nationally Significant 20th-Century Architecture in South Australia, you said a number of things (with which I do NOT disagree) leading up to the comment:
 * If this were moved to List of heritage listed buildings in Adelaide, I'd not only be not questioning its encyclopedicness, I'd be helping write the damn thing.

To me, that sounds like there is a basis for "a way forward". Or did I mis-understand? (Yes, I'm a bit confused by all this ... ) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:49, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Even more confused ...
Given that, in general, we both want to achieve progress, and that neither of us have a huge vested interest in "being right" over "achieving progress", I don't really understand why we have arrived at a situation where we are in conflict with each other ... Pdfpdf (talk) 13:48, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Whoa! Changing the name to 'List of heritage listed buildings in Adelaide' is unwise, as many of the entries may NOT actually be heritage listed! See my comments on the Afd page. Bahudhara (talk) 16:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh dear. What can I say? I want to amicably resolve this, but I'm afraid he's right. (Background: I hate the original name, but it was the least bad / most accurate we came up with after lengthy discussion.) Your new name is "very nice", but I'm afraid it's not an accurate description of the contents of the list ... Pdfpdf (talk) 16:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

(Metaphorically "Out to lunch")
Apologies for lack of response, but I'm afraid "life" is getting in the way of WP at the moment. This posting is to say: "I don't disagree with you". And, "I'm not ignoring you" - I'm just a bit "otherwise occupied" at the moment. Apologies. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:35, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your thanks!
I just hope it achieves the desired outcome. Kerry (talk)

Doug Lehmann
Please see User talk:Bbb23. GiantSnowman 12:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

inneresting
I've got a large interest in railway history and had worked very close to some of these places and never heard of them - you still in Perth or elsewhere? - curious about what you hadnt heard of... (I am connected with heritage railway thingoes in Perth, and if youre interested I could fill you in a number of topics if you wanted...) satusuro 11:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I have used the midland line former stations, would prefer email conversation on more detailed info re where I used to live and work etc - when ever you are ready - drop me a line - even better - whats the chance of getting to one of the perth meetups! satusuro 13:53, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

South Australian Maritime Museum
Your recent removal of material from the Port Adelaide article and pasting it willy-nilly into the South Australian Maritime Museum article isn't particularly helpful, given your lack of knowledge about local politics. The City of Adelaide clipper ship is being handled by an entirely different, private group to the Maritime Museum, in fact they are at loggerheads with the State Government over issues of the long-term future site for the clipper, funding, etc. I'll try to fix this up later, I don't have time just at the moment. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

re Template:Australian political parties
Hi Drover, apologies for not replying earlier. I have just added other registered parties as you suggested and I have also added major defunct parties and rolled out this across the articles as well. Please review and add or remove any party you think should or should not be included. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 14:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, Ian! I noticed this template appear and wondered if it was intended only for parties that participated in federal elections or whether it can include parties that operated at state level? The specific party I am thinking of is the Queensland Labor Party but there are probably others. Or should we have separate templates for each of the states or ...? Kerry (talk) 03:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail!
Nikkimaria (talk) 13:45, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Adam Marshall
I thought we said the expanded sentencing remarks could go in? The issue is in the last few days its been in the headlines again. Mounting pressure on him to resign. I think we can fairly call it a continuing scandal? The opposition are saying the premier and deputy premier need to make further disclosures about the matter.

Ghostofthelandscape (talk) 04:13, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Grateful
Before too much time passes, I would like to thank you sincerely for getting this done. Deletions aren't my favorite thing, but that was a very important one to me. SteveStrummer (talk) 01:27, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Your username
Hey, I noticed your username. I doubt I have read a short story with the same name. Is your username has any relation with that story??  Jim Car ter  17:12, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. I'm happy that people still love reading stories and respect writes, when the trend of reading book are in the line towards extinction. :) Happy editing!!  Jim Carter (from public cyber)  08:37, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Vatskalis
Do you know the date of his resignation? Your edit to the template prompted me to start going around and fixing everything up, but all I can find in the media is that he was intending to resign after the end of the August sittings, and I can't find the actual date. Frickeg (talk) 07:23, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Huh, there you go. Thanks! Frickeg (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Vern Hughes
Hi, I was wondering if you might know where to find some extra sources on Hughes. An editor has prodded the article and I deprodded it since I recall him being everywhere around the mid-2000s, but online sources are pretty scarce. I'm going to try and check some hard copy ones later in the week, but would you have any other suggestions? Frickeg (talk) 03:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks heaps. Frickeg (talk) 04:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Such
"Dr Such’s family this evening issued a statement to inform that their beloved husband and father had died at the Daw House Hospice earlier on Saturday." - shouldn't it be 11 not 10 October? Timeshift (talk) 16:28, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

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 * added a link pointing to Colac


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Cite VICNAMES template
Hi there. The Victorian Government has introduced a new site for listing all geological features making Cite VICNAMES redundant. The new site, called LASSI is located here. There are two key issues: Many thanks. Rangasyd (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) How can the template be amended to now gather the information from LASSI?
 * 2) How do you suggest we go about amending all articles currently using the Cite VICNAMES template, assuming that a new template can be implemented?
 * Thanks for your feedback. I've moved the discussion to Template talk:Cite VICNAMES. Rangasyd (talk) 09:09, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Jacqui Lambie's possible Aboriginality
I'd be interested in your thoughts on that matter on the article's Talk page please. HiLo48 (talk) 02:06, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Bridges
thanks for the encouragement, I did a study of historic bridges throughout Victoria, and so would like to see some of the less known ones raised in prominence. I am particularly looking for other secondary sources (not my own study) so if you have any suggestions, would love to hear about them.Garyvines (talk) 02:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

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Could you refrain from making uncivil remarks in edit summaries?
Please assume good faith, and don't insult people for "peeing on newbies just because they can". You could've just declined based on a "clear claim to notability", adding that insulting remark is unjustified and is uncivil. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 13:24, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Three incivil remarks towards me. Your recent edit summary on Vanessa Barrs is disrespectful towards me. I tagged it when it did not have many sources. Now it does. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 13:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Accusations of bad behavior
I take issue with your accusation that placing a notability tag on an article is an "impeccably stupid way of treating new editors". The editors weren't given any warnings. The articles were not nominated for deletion. They were just tagged with a template that indicates that some improvement might be in order. I am sensitive to the issue of new editor recruitment, and of being too bitey, especially in underserved areas (although I don't know that I count Australia as an underserved area of Wikipedia, but then I'm not Australian so I might not have the correct perspective). I tagged the article to indicate that the question was open. (The tag does read "This article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines".) And I did ask about the issue at, what I believe was the proper venue. So, a little less umbrage and a little more helpfulness might go a long way toward building the collaborative project we're all striving for here. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at User talk:Chess. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. Just to make it clear, I will report you to AIV the next time you make a personal attack. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 15:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Two comments. Firstly, The Drover's Wife, routinely accusing other editors of stupidity is anything but conductive to a collaborative editing environment. I rather doubt that's the tone you'd use towards colleagues in "real life", would you? Wikipedia has guidelines on civility and personal attacks, and it's rather obvious you're violating them. Secondly, Chess, AIV would not be the appropriate venue for a report. See WP:NOT VANDALISM. You already made a report at WP:ANI. Huon (talk) 19:56, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thanks for all your help with the Queensland Heritage Register articles.

Kerry (talk) 12:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC) 

Feleppa
I know, I found just the same. There were genealogy sites and stuff, but nothing usable on the death date - and as you say, nothing in Hansard, which is just bizarre. I suppose it's possible that it's a different Feleppa who died in 2011. SA is by far the worst in this area (although WA's pretty bad once you go back a bit), which is why I've put off doing any of the SA MPs for so long. I mean, I guess a stub's better than nothing, but I hate not having any useful information to put in an article. I suspect with a bit of research there could be quite a good section on poker machines in his article, but that would be literally the entire thing since we have practically no basic biographical information. Frickeg (talk) 08:56, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

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 * I have solved the immortelle disambiguation problem by creating Immortelle (cemetery). It was an interesting example of something that was so commonplace at the time that nobody felt the need to ever write down what an immortelle actually was. Not an easy thing to find citations for as it turned out. Kerry (talk) 05:50, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for adding a reference to my article on Nuatali Nelmes. GilesMartin1945 (talk) 01:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Hollins
Fair enough on that point, but he was also a big social creditor, which might be right-wing but isn't really "conservative". Frickeg (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

City councillors
My pleasure. I've long been aware that the current wording of WP:POLOUTCOMES has a very North American bias to it that doesn't always work for other countries — the guideline for mayors even causes problems in the UK — but as a North American myself I don't really have enough background knowledge of how municipal politics works other places to personally initiate a discussion about how to change it. I'd be happy to try to provide whatever assistance I'm able to, though. Bearcat (talk) 04:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting what you said about Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Hobart. Bearcat's comment brought to mind the David Nolte AfD from a few years ago. Of course since his council term was pre-internet (or pre-lots of internet) there would be less online. I do note, however, that WP:POLOUTCOMES doesn't actually help for Australian purposes, since it specifies that the council must be "city-wide", and only Hobart would qualify (and Hobart doesn't even qualify as a world city, let alone in a high enough class). Generally I suspect we are evolving very slowly to a point where the amount of coverage typical for a Sydney or Melbourne city councillor is sufficient to pass WP:GNG anyway these days.
 * Oh, keep in mind that Wikipedia sourcing doesn't actually have to exist online. We are allowed to source stuff to books, print-only editions of newspapers or magazines, and other offline sources. We certainly like to provide a convenience link to a web-accessible version of the content whenever possible, but that's by no means a requirement — if you've got access to a database or a microfilm archive of older content, you are allowed to use that for sourcing. So GNG isn't something you need to just let the situation evolve toward — if you've got a way to dig out older print coverage, then by all means bring it on. Bearcat (talk) 06:44, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for tagging a page
I'm sorry, I didn't notice the licensing template. I'll be more careful. Thanks for pointing it out.--Jonathanarpith (talk) 12:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Coren Bot
Hi, Coren's been away for a few weeks, but having observed his bot in action for a while, it doesn't understand context, only content, which is why it flags articles as possible copyvios even though they are CC licensed. A couple of things to note: first, no article is ever deleted or even proposed for deletion based solely on the bot. A human always evaluates the reports. (The bot automatically opens a case at WP:SCV). Second, if there's no copyright issue, then the bot's notice even says to go ahead and remove the tag. As before, a human will come by and evaluate the bot's report. I've closed more reports as "false positive" than I care to count! Crow  Caw 01:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding the backup bot, it archives based on message dates, so the messages you just restored will again be archived when the bot runs (4-6 times a day), placing another copy of them in the archives. As for "it needs to be turned off", that's for Coren to decide, but if you keep undoing the bot's archiving (and thus filling up his archives with multiple copies of the same messages), that could be seen as disruptive, so please don't do that. Crow  Caw  01:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

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Vic 2014
The ABC has Richmond still in doubt. While I agree that a Maltzahn win would take a lot at this stage, that's the source we've generally gone with. Maybe invisible Wynne until tomorrow (when I imagine it will be called)? Frickeg (talk) 12:55, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd call that a slip; he was looking at just the primary votes (from which I still find it weird that the Greens would even be close, but that's what the figures are saying). I remember he also said Martin Dixon had been "defeated". :) Frickeg (talk) 12:58, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I remember at the start of the night the computer saying a 16% swing, while the primaries had a 10% primary vote swing against the Greens. Something went wrong there somewhere. I'm just a little concerned that the ABC is still predicting only a 0.2% lead - but I suppose it will all become moot tomorrow anyway when predictive software is turned off. Frickeg (talk) 13:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * *shrug* Frickeg (talk) 13:09, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Err ... Frickeg (talk) 13:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I must say the ABC as a whole hasn't had a great night. I've had constant problems with the site too, and discrepancies between figures all night. I'm also wondering about that huge pre-poll vote - Antony was sounding very confident calling everything above 0.5% margin, but there's practically half of some of these electorates uncounted. Frickeg (talk) 14:01, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there another politician called Tim Richardson? Frickeg (talk) 14:27, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Does it? I couldn't find one. (Although it's very late, and I may be missing something obvious.) Frickeg (talk) 14:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Oops. It was OpenCongress. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 14:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

No problem - I did the same! At least it was a broadly happy result for the first time in a long time (SA only kind of counts), although the Labor/Greens stuff had me pulling my hair out as usual. So much stupid on both sides! Frickeg (talk) 00:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I know - things went really quite badly against the Greens later in the night. Early on the optimists among them could dream of 3-4 seats! I suspect Richmond at least was something glitchy going on, or possibly the ABC computer just hasn't worked out Labor-Greens contests yet. (It also took them half the night to even register Shepparton, but then that was a total surprise. Still, since they're happening more often, they have to make some changes to make switching to unexpected candidates for 2PP easier.) I believe that pre-polls favoured the Greens last time, which may account for Melbourne. I think the ABC has predictive software off, so it's now showing a raw count. Frickeg (talk) 00:22, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm thinking we may have collectively jumped the gun on a few calls ... I was wondering about that huge pre-poll, but everyone on the night was so certain about most of these seats not being in doubt. On the other hand, I think it might have been wiser for me to wait at least a week on the LC; I'm now seeing on Poll Bludger that Samantha Dunn is not entirely solid in East Metro, and that there is still a chance the Shooters seat in North Vic will go to the Greens (!) or the Sex Party (!!). And also that Animal Justice is in with a shot in South East Metro. This will be a fascinating upper house. The electoral system is completely stupid, but I can't deny there will be a tiny part of me that will miss seeing these total weirdos crop up in the various Legislative Councils.

But on those calls ... I'm wondering if we should bother rolling them back now, or just sit back and wait. It's not like anyone but the two of us has even looked at those pages yet anyway. :) Frickeg (talk) 07:21, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Heh, chamber switches are very easy to miss. I also missed Steve Herbert and Mary Wooldridge when I was doing the infobox/succession boxes. Frickeg (talk) 11:44, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Redistributions
Yes some are tricky. Dinner Plain, Victoria could be in Benambra, Ovens Valley or Gippsland East, but guessing Benambra.--Grahame (talk) 14:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, well I was wrong. very useful.--Grahame (talk) 14:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

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Victorian results
For results from 1992-2010, I'm using the election papers by Antony Green on the ABC website here: http://www.abc.net.au/elections/archive/. For 1985 and 1988, I'm using copies of the state election books published by the electoral office at the time. And for everything before that, I'm using Colin Hughes' books that cover all results from 1890-1982. Also, I've been looking at archives of The Age on Google newspapers, and they usually have some useful information around the dates that the elections took place. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 03:28, 5 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I usually put the references up in the first results table on the results pages. There's one here, here, and here on the Albert Park result table that covers the references for Hughes's books, and this page covers the reference for the 1985 election, again in the Albert Park table. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 03:46, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Victorian public service
Thank you for your kind words! I will take a look, but I will admit I am a bit out of my depth in the Victorian public service subject area. Will be sure to drop by to your Talk page if something comes up to mull over! Clare. (talk) 01:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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A little rude
Your edit at irked me a little, with that "raise eyebrow" thing. I understand why, and I was just too lazy to read the whole thing (I am not that interested in politics). Please be more polite next time, and prevent personal attacks (I won't start one). Thanks, DEW.   Adrenaline  ( Nahnah4 ) 07:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. BT80 (talk) 13:27, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Abuse of power reported to Administrators
I have contacted the Administrators to your Edit Warring with me by using a BOT Called TW, I am only starting out on Wikipedia, and you are treating me like I am a deliberately vandalising Wikipedia (I am only edit tin pages that do need attention ). Do NOT threaten me with being banned as you are the only one here who is abusing your power by threatening people and using a BOT to edit war with them BT80 (talk) 05:40, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

I am NOT deliberately vandalizing Wikipedia
I am marking articles that need work.

Ban me, see if I care. It will just show your abuse of power.

It is amazing how people will always "trash talk" people on the internet, when they know they will never have to face the person in real life.

The only "advise" I want / need from you is ZERO
You and ALL of your Cronies are making me hate Wikipedia.

Thanks for NOT helping out the NEW guy here !!! BT80 (talk) 14:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

YOU are VANDALIZING Wikipedia by NOT letting people bring pages to the attention of people who know the workings of editing using Wikipedia.
Maybe you should be considerate of learners who do NOT know the ins & outs of editing on Wikipedia. BT80 (talk) 14:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

I want my account deleted
Everyone seems to want me to dance around like a puppet. That is NOT how I roll. None of what you have said is true. I want you or one of your minions to permanently delete my Wikipedia account.

BT80 (talk) 03:58, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Re Unions
Thanks for your feedback on my recent work on defunct Australian trade unions. I agree that a number of these pages include material from the Australian Trade Union Archive (ATUA) which is probably in danger of breaching copyright. However these are pages which I have only recently split off from the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union page, and haven't yet been able to properly edit and improve. The ATUA material was all originally in the AMWU article, where a previous editor had basically lifted all the available material from the ATUA on the AMWU's industrial predecessors. In time I hope to be able to add other sources and improve these new articles, as I have with a number of other articles on defunct Australian trade unions such as the Amalgamated Engineering Union (Australia), Federated Ironworkers' Association and Federated Ship Painters and Dockers Union. Thanks again, Warrenjs1 (talk) 08:05, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Please tell me how to delete my account permanently then.
Please tell me how to delete my account permanently then. BT80 (talk) 04:55, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

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Redlinks in navboxes
Hi there, my apologies for delinking those names. For some (bizarre) reason I had it in my head redlinks were a no-no. I promise it won't happen again and hope you're not too angry at me. :) Rocketrod1960 (talk) 07:27, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Draft:Betoota Advocate Newspaper
Hello The Drover's Wife. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Draft:Betoota Advocate Newspaper, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: This is a draft, previous deleition disussions were on a full article, so we should assume this is a work in progress to address the issues raised in the AfD. Thank you. Ged UK  14:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk:General Post Office, Adelaide
This building is listed on the CC-by-SA (Wikipedia-compatible)-licensed Commonwealth Heritage List, and so there's good article text right there if somebody wants to copy it over with the appropriate attribution. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 15:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! What's the URL of that page, please? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:50, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. Happy New Year! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * BTW & FYI: I am steadily becoming an even grumpier old man (but probably more considerate) than your previous experiences may have indicated. I hereby give you my official permission to give me "reality checks" when you feel my grumpiness becomes excessive. Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:49, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * (Context? Edit history (and comments) on General Post Office, Adelaide)

Country railway stations
No problems, it did seem a bit out of place to have articles for long closed, relatively minor country halts and not for stations in major centres like Dubbo, Griffith, Moree and Tamworth. Mo7838 (talk) 06:31, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, and a request
Dear DW: Please accept my gratitude for all the good work you did cleaning up all the loose ends I left after my Legislative Council orgy. I'm now back looking at some interesting journalists and little newspapers of South Australia. One biog. that in the old days I would have titled Joseph Colin Francis Johnson I reckon should be Frank Johnson (politician) rather than Joseph Johnson (Australian politician). Assuming you agree, would you mind doing the business? Doug butler (talk) 22:47, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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ACT
Pfft, it's only the ACT (said the ACT voter). Good thing that countback happened (although we also managed to miss it with the Seselja countback ...). There are so many pages that need updating when members change nowadays - I don't know how the Americans manage with 50 state legislatures (well ... with more editors, obviously, but still). Frickeg (talk) 12:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I always think it's the post-election stuff that's hardest - after the flurry of election night, it's those Legislative Council counts that still need to be finished two weeks later. And then, of course, the upper house vacancies, which are so easy to miss completely. I remember browsing about for some reason and seeing a name I didn't recognise on the SA Parliament website, only to discover that Bob Sneath had resigned months previously and none of us had noticed! Frickeg (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Qld
What do you think about Gaven? I had it down as an LNP hold/gain/whatever, but do you remember if we ever had an LNP/ALP count? Looking at the raw numbers it seems theoretically possible that the LNP could be chased down on Greens and Douglas preferences, depending on how strongly the Douglas numbers flow. (Why on earth the ECQ thought an ALP/Douglas count was a good idea I have no clue.) Either way I'm thinking maybe we should bring it back in doubt, since we don't have an actual LNP/ALP count to go off. Frickeg (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point. I have pulled Gaven back to "in doubt", and also Redlands, which is also now appearing on the ABC's list. I don't see anyone seriously talking about Ferny Grove and Mount Ommaney at this point, but I think we can give it another day or two. Frickeg (talk) 05:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think Gaven was always a bit of a long shot, but better safe than sorry I guess. Most people do seem to be considering Mount Ommaney and Mansfield as out of it (probably by the end of today, at least for Mt O), and Ferny Grove I think is fairly settled too. Whitsunday, though, seems to be staying close - it looks like it'll be joining Maryborough for the long haul.


 * You're absolutely right about the substandard stuff that gets left behind after an election. It would be great to do a run-through - I think I'll have a bit of time later in the week or on the weekend. The only question is how wide to cast the net? I would think this kind of thing would apply back to around 2007 when we really got the state-level articles going, although there are probably some federal instances too. Maybe and a few others might be interested as well? I suppose it'll mostly be trawling through local papers, etc., but hopefully it won't be too onerous. Frickeg (talk) 22:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there a particular state you want to start on? I might start with NSW when I get the chance. (We should probably include electorates in this too - I know a couple of them are pretty out of date.) Frickeg (talk) 23:26, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

No sooner do we take Gaven off the in-doubt than it turns out it really is - even more than we thought. Ugh. I hope we don't have to delete Sid Cramp. (Well. I mean, I hope we do. But it'd be kind of embarrassing.) In much worse news, Poll Bludger now says Hanson a possibility in Lockyer. Frickeg (talk) 07:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries; goodness knows I wouldn't have put it past Anderson. One would assume this total chaos means Delia Lawrie is fairly safe (stable, united, etc.), and that she will need to complete the mammoth task of not soiling herself in public in order to win the next election. Frickeg (talk) 11:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of The Betoota Advocate
Please see Talk:The_Betoota_Advocate.  JT dale Talk ~ 15:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

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DYK for Clive Shields
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Invitation
Have you heard of the Kaffeeklatsch? It is a test area for women to hear and support each other. The idea came about as a result of a [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice? discussion] at meta regarding my IdeaLab proposal (yet open) for WikiProject Women.

Now that the klatsch has survived an MfD and WMF legal has said that it does not violate the non discrimination policy, I am looking for women editors who might like to join.

Although I have started a couple of discussions, they are not urgent. For now, the "Please introduce yourself" discussion is more important! I want to take it slow at first and build a small group before trying to address heavy topics or come up with big goals. For now, the klatsch is there as a sort of refuge. I hope you will consider joining, and invite other women editors, too, if you wish. Lightbreather (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

"inappropriate tag"
here. Could you explain why?

As I understand it, the article itself makes clear that the newspaper was published once, in 1916, and hasn't been since. The citations are (in order), automatically generated and noting that a copy is held, the literal copy of the newspaper, and not mentioning the Advocate at all. So...it's notability isn't confirmed. Where's the inappropriateness? Ironholds (talk) 04:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

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Factions
You're obviously very impressed with the significance of that content - odd how you've not managed to find more and better sources, since it's clearly of such surpassing importance. Guy (Help!) 22:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Allegation of Sock Puppet - CBD & South East Light Rail Project & other concerns raised
Hi Drover's Wife. I have not created a second (or any additional accounts).

In response to your citing use of original work - I have added citations from various news articles which is what your entry on the talk page asked for. I hope this will allay your concerns.

Please feel free to use my talk page to ask/resolve any issues you have rather than wholesale deletion which is against WP's principals. If you think the phrasing is not neutral then please suggest what amendment you think is necessary. On the "Call for Papers" I cannot see any aspect that is not succinct, balanced or accurate. Can you please outline exactly what your concern is?

The Govt provided glossy brochures to the public. One was titled "Summary of Business Case" yet they then claim that there is not material in existence to substantiate any figure quoted in the Business Case Summary. That includes the existence of an original Business Case that the Summary is based on.

Numerous groups have complained about the lack of transparency and I could have cited over 50 recent articles from The Telegraph, The SMH, Southern Courier, Wentworth Courier, Central Courier, to name just a few. I decided to cite the RCC resolution (and their media release) as well as a news article about the resolution from another source to demonstrate the wide cross-section of media sources reporting the issues.

I did this to demonstrate that it is not a case of one media outlet having an axe to grind.

I will shortly be adding a section about the State Auditor General's Dec 2014 report into shortcomings with TfNSW's approach to infrastructure projects namely that TfNSW makes unsubstantiated claims, does not seek independent verification of crucial underlying assumptions and is not acting in a transparent way. The State Auditor General has announced an investigation into the CBD & South East Light Rail project. RegardsA M R Sydney (talk) 21:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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DLP categories
I don't really mind too much; I was trying to avoid disambiguators as far as possible and didn't really think many casual readers would be interested in the categories, but don't really have objections either way. On another note, though - are our two separate DLP articles really correct? If we asked the DLP, they would tell us that they're the same party ... and the AEC certainly agrees. This distinction goes way, way back, but I wonder if a merger wouldn't be in order. Frickeg (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The DLP avoided de-registration in the 2006 purge by successfully claiming prior representation in parliament . This parliamentary report also shows pretty clearly that the original dissolution (at least in Victoria) was dodgy to say the least, and adds that three quarters of the state executive continued the party regardless. Given there was no gap in contesting elections (and a lot of continuity in candidates too), I'd say it's at least worth a discussion. Frickeg (talk) 02:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Might be worth a look; I may do some reading and see what the dedicated books on the DLP say. Similarly, Australian Labor Party (Anti-Communist) is kind of an oddity since it was just an earlier name of the DLP - that can probably be merged into the DLP and split articles. Frickeg (talk) 02:59, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

NSW 2015
What do you reckon our in-doubt seats are at the end of the night? The ABC has only Gosford, but if we were being excessively cautious I would think Lismore, Wollongong, Upper Hunter and Strathfield are maybe not hammered down? Frickeg (talk) 11:37, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Scratch Upper Hunter. Frickeg (talk) 11:38, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been doing the candidates page, and I think there's still some doubt in The Entrance too. So I've got Gosford, Lismore, Strathfield, The Entrance and Wollongong. Frickeg (talk) 11:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Kevin Bonham was very uncertain about Lismore earlier in the night (we don't know how the preferences will behave), but I think most people have given it away. I'm not too fussed either way; I personally can't see the Nationals winning it, but then I didn't think the Greens would go as close as they did in Melbourne in Victoria, so who knows. Frickeg (talk) 12:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, so, I think I need to inscribe "LISMORE" in big bold letters somewhere next time there's an election, to remind me to always err on the side of caution. Frickeg (talk) 03:06, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * We had an article on Terry Boylan of the 2009 Frome by-election briefly, I remember. But yes. Unless we pull it all back and don't do anything until counting is finished (a terrible idea), then we'll always have these odd ones, I suspect. (The ABC computer is still calling things way too early, I think; I hope they find a way to indicate levels of doubt more easily.) Frickeg (talk) 04:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Qld ALP pollies
I notice you are replacing Category:Australian Labor Party politicians with Category:Australian Labor Party members of the Parliament of Queensland. Do you want me to do this systematically for all Category:Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly and Category:Members of the Queensland Legislative Council using AutoWikiBrowser? I think it should be relatively straightforward with AWB. Kerry (talk) 05:41, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

What's in a name?!
I'd welcome your thoughts on an article title. Coming up next on the Queensland Heritage Register is the delighfully-named Public Reserve incorporating the Privy Pit and Site of Convict Barracks and Store. That's a bit of a mouthful for a Wikipedia article title. I was thinking of calling it Dunwich Convict Site (it's at Dunwich) or maybe Dunwich Convict Archeological Site. I think Dunwich Privy Pit lacks a certain charm but I guess it's a contender. Open to ideas? Kerry (talk) 06:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Candidates
Yes! Thanks for reminding me. I'll get on the candidates categories.

I don't know if we clarified regarding the mayors thing - my reading, and intention in proposing, was always that it would only include those not elected to higher office. We should probably specify that in the category itself. Frickeg (talk) 07:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

TWL HighBeam check-in
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"Ranting about the Greens"
Your repeated claims at Talk:Next_Australian_federal_election that I keep "ranting about the Greens" is getting tiresome. I have not made any deprecatory comments about either Greens policies, or Greens politicians. Please stop. --Surturz (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Missing MPs
For some reason WA often does this kind of thing under the radar (I remember years ago discovering the appointments of Carolyn Burton and Shelley Eaton months after the event). Good thing you caught it fairly early! SA is often very quiet about it too. At least with WA we can immediately tell who the replacement will be (the only non-Hare-Clark state that does this, I think?).

Unless I'm missing it the AEC doesn't seem to actually announce deregistrations so much as just quietly take them off the register (they do the "notice" thing, but then when they actually decide they don't seem to announce it unless I'm missing something). I'm actually impressed the media at least picked up on the Democrats' and DLP's deregistration. Both momentous occasions to be sure. (On another note I noticed one party, The 23 Million, was deregistered without ever contesting an election. This is the kind of thing I was talking about with the Australian Progressives AfD, but I understand they're very much the exception to the rule.) Frickeg (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 2
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Not sure
Where you get your WP:BOLD style from, but if you had read the specific summaries from the move from spur to branch - the predominant name used by the w.a.g.r. and the newspaper articles about the line - rarely called it the Belmont railway line, in most cases the belmont branch was the usage in most public available records... so I am somewhat mystified by your move. User:JarrahTree 02:55, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Your response unfortunateley verges on personal attack (the usage of the word 'fight' does not help), I must say I am disapointed by that, as I would have hoped that there could have been a discusssion, rather than an adverserial approach.  I am not sure what bothers you about a possible resolution to variation in railway wording in the Australian project...

I thought I had offered an explanation of the difference, and you suggest a convention that I ignore? Please lead me to the location of the establishment of the convention, and I will gladly change my edits to the convention if it can be established.

I would have thought that a suitable convention is guided by the usage that the railway operators usually named them by, surely that is reasonable assumption? Rather than continue here - maybe this should be at either the Trains and Australian noticeboards, and I you dont want to join in there, I will gladly bring the subject up, as it clearly has bothered you, the way you left your message. cheers User:JarrahTree

SA candidates pages
Nice job with the SA candidates page. One question - why are the successes in bold and the sitting MPs asterisked? In the past it's always been the reverse. Frickeg (talk) 10:22, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I confess I'm a little confused about why bolding makes more sense than asterisking? The page at the moment confuses the hell out of me, because our project-wide standard is so entrenched. I don't think I can agree with making an exception for this single page. We are already giving the winners plenty of prominence with the shading.


 * For me, the logic behind bolding incumbents has always been fairly clear. The candidates pages are essentially pre-election in mindset. The fact that we indicate winners at all is a fairly recent change, and while I think it's an improvement, to my mind it's incidental to the primary purpose of the page, which is about who ran, not who won. In that sense those who ran as incumbent MPs (even in realignments, and even when they might have switched seats) should definitely be given more prominence than those who were not running with incumbency behind them. If we were to start bolding people in results pages, the argument would be different. But I think the candidates pages should really emphasise the pre-election situation over the result. Frickeg (talk) 00:36, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Done. :) Frickeg (talk) 03:11, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Anything to make creating the pages easier - they can be tricky, and I still routinely find minor errors in the federal ones I created years ago. Ward would've been easy to miss since his period of service was so much later - he would have to be one of the oldest, if not the absolute oldest, people ever to be newly elected to federal parliament. Frickeg (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

If you get a chance, I'd really appreciate any help with overhauling those electorate tables as discussed at the AUSPOL talk page. It's beyond my coding skills to do it, and there's quite a few of these articles that cannot be worked off for other articles in their current state. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. Is there an easy place to find affected articles? And given I know practically nothing about this period of SA politics, is it possible that you could summarise the party changes somewhere in prose, and then I'll put them in the tables? Frickeg (talk) 09:38, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Right, I'll get started then. I may run through the current electorates first just so that the whole thing is standardised. I'll keep you posted so you can check them over for anything I might miss. For now I'll use the plain Liberal colour for the two pre-LCL parties, but this can always be changed later. I don't know anything about non-Labor parties pre-1910 (were there any?) so will just leave them blank for now - they should be easy to fill in if you have the sources. Frickeg (talk) 01:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a start. Hopefully they won't all be as complicated as that one! Frickeg (talk) 02:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


 * All current electorates should now be done. I think I'm all tabled out for today, but I'll work on the former electorates through the week. Frickeg (talk) 06:34, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Done. The 1924s in Barossa aren't meant to line up: Hague was re-elected in 1924 but died a few months later, allowing Crosby (who had been defeated at the 1924 election) to re-enter the House. Frickeg (talk) 08:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Done for Alexandra. Let me know any other early ones that need to be fixed up. :) Frickeg (talk) 23:14, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi, and thank you for proof reading my entries. :)  Trying to getting spelling and grammar is hard enough as it is but a couple of months ago my darling two-year-old grand daughter decided it would be fun to rip a couple of keys from my keyboard, including the letter "n". Sorta makes things difficult at times! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 03:29, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Col Bennett

Hi, and thanks once again for the encouragement!

The main sources I use are Trove (where I find all the old newspaper articles), Australian Dictionary of Biography (when they have an article about the person), and of course the Queensland Parliament website. I tend to run in to trouble though for politicians who served from the mid 50's and onwards because for copyright reasons, the newspapers stop at 1954. The old stories to be found on there though are fascinating and often I get sidelined reading other stories as well. Being in Victoria now has also limited some of the things I used to do. For example, you will find that I added most of the graveyard photos for the people buried in Brisbane, something no longer possible.

One really old story from the 1800's caught my attention. It went along the lines of...... "Longreach news - Two natives were caught stealing from a local camp. The constabulary came and the two captives were immediately hung. Weather - fine and sunny."

Right now I am creating an article for Fred Bromley, the last of the South Brisbane representatives without an article. My plan is to get articles created for every state member, which I guess will take a few more weeks or months. Then I want to clean up all the electorate and associated articles, a couple of weeks I suspect. After all that I am then going to pick out the more interesting politicians to add more detail to their article. Col Bennett is certainly one of those.

So as you can see it is a long term goal I have set for myself. If you know of any websites I can use to get more information please let me know!! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 23:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

1930s SA Labor
Thanks for correcting my edits. I've been doing some historical SA election related edits lately, if you come across other wrong edits please feel free to correct. Is this right or wrong? I don't suppose you have the resources and/or motivation to do the other Lang Labor article you indicated in your edit summary at Electoral district of Adelaide? Timeshift (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Perhaps we should have all Lang'ish parties in their own sections at Lang Labor Party (South Australia) and link to those sections? That way even "Collaton Langites" would be included. And as you didn't say in the last reply.... is this right or wrong? Timeshift (talk) 14:06, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

As well as the above check, can you tell me if this is right or wrong? Timeshift (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

It makes as much sense as 1930s SA Labor politics does in general :) Timeshift (talk) 14:21, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Redirect
Er, why would you redirect a page to itself? Or is there some subtlety of syntax which I've missed? Cheers Bjenks (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

SA MLC lists
Blah. Stopping there. Don't suppose you want to pick up where i left off? Best way to find out is type their name and "party names" with the " in to google and see what you find. Add to their bio article and in the MLC list. I have no doubt 1897 through 1915 has more affiliations i've missed and/or not available online. 1891 to 1897 still need doing. Timeshift (talk) 17:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

At the time I added/ref'd party affiliation in every MP's article that I altered in the MP lists. Timeshift (talk) 05:13, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Is there any way of finding out where historical SA seats were located? It's frustrating to me as a South Australian to come across articles like Electoral district of Stanley (South Australia) and having no idea what populations they actually covered... Timeshift (talk) 16:00, 23 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Found something, thanks. What i'd give to see a circa 1910 map of the 12 multi-member electorates...! And they probably had the best electoral system in SA's history too... Timeshift (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

SA Upper House
Sure, I guess I could make the SA upper house my next priority. I'll have a go at that next time. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Ipswich railway station
There are folks who believe that "Brisbane" is much much bigger than City of Brisbane. Now, that's perhaps a reasonable point of view in Sydney and Melbourne where the City of Sydney and City of Melbourne are very small relative to their associated urban sprawl commonly known as Sydney and Melbourne, but IMHO it's less valid when discussing Brisbane and Ipswich both of which are historically separate places (Brisbane being established as a municipality in 1859 and Ipswich in 1860). I am more sympathetic to the urban sprawl argument when discussing some parts of Logan City which are historically expansions of the Brisbane urban sprawl, which are now placed in City of Logan, which is not historically a separately developed city of its own but a modern creation from local government amalgamations. There are definitely folks who feel they have always lived in "Brisbane" who now find themselves in another LGA. I've seen similar arguments over whether the Gold Coast extends into northern NSW or stops at the Queensland border, because of the "ambush marketing" used by Northern NSW businesses where they advertise themselves as being "Gold Coast resorts" etc. Kerry (talk) 09:56, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Results pages
Thanks! Just getting started here - we really need election results articles for each federal election to match the fantastic work Kirsdarke01 is doing on the state pages, and since I did the electorate ones I may as well carry the work over. It'll make a nice break in between 19th-century NSW politicians. Frickeg (talk) 02:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, before I really get going I'd like your opinion on something. As a long-term project I'd like to get into Trove and start writing some writeups for these seat-level results going back to 1901, as we discussed doing for the NT yonks ago and never really got around to. However, I'm feeling that these could really work better as general summaries of the entire micro-level campaign, and that "results" might not be the best name for the articles. While they'd still be set out the same, I'm thinking perhaps they could also take something from the way the US does these, like this. Maybe we could call ours Australian House of Representatives elections in New South Wales, 1901 or something? I don't know if that will quite work. And what would we do for Senate - Australian Senate elections, 1901 brings us uncomfortably close to the Senate-only elections like Australian Senate election, 1953, but on the other hand I don't know that we really need a whole article on each individual Senate contest. Perhaps something like Australian federal elections in New South Wales, 1901 that could cover both House and Senate? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this. Frickeg (talk) 02:31, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I was actually thinking that these hypothetical pages would render the results pages at least partially obsolete. I mean, we'd still keep the House summaries, but we wouldn't need the state-by-state ones anymore since that would all be covered in the new pages. The parenthetical option could be the best one in the end. At this point the states are so far into the future that I'd barely even want to think about them, but their names could be even more difficult.
 * I'll head over to AUP now and have a look, although I'm not really an expert on early upper house by-elections and vacancies. Which reminds me I still need to go over the NSWLC lists! So much to do! :) Frickeg (talk) 03:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey, just letting you know I've seen your request about North Adelaide - I'm laid low with a cold at the moment but will deal with it on recovery (my brain can't handle those tables when I'm sick as well!). :) Frickeg (talk) 08:24, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've left the NDL stuff for now - did they have a colour they were associated with? It'll probably be easier to do the non-Labor stuff once the whole lot is sorted out, and then I can just go through and take care of the lot in one fell swoop. Frickeg (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

On the name of the pages, I think something like Results of the Australian federal election, 1901 (New South Wales) would work fairly okay. Or if not, I'm alright with Australian federal elections in New South Wales, 1901. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 04:50, 11 July 2015 (UTC)


 * For state elections, I guess the way they're going now is working okay. As "Results of X state election, 19XX (Legislative Assembly) or (Legislative Council) where appropriate. We did a trial run a few years back with putting descriptions up with the results in this page: Results of the Northern Territory general election, 2012 (Arafura and Araluen). I'm guessing the overall aim would be that sort of thing? Kirsdarke01 (talk) 05:36, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

NDL
Perhaps a footnote could be added saying "Endorsement only"? Timeshift (talk) 01:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * If I can input my experience in NSW here - over there, I would say the relationship between, say, the official Free Trade electoral organisation and the parliamentary free traders was tenuous at best. Quite frequently the electoral organisation would just stay out of contests where there was more than one free trader running, or they would endorse a Labor candidate, or they would endorse multiple candidates, or they would not endorse people who were clearly free traders in parliament. The same with the protectionists, and even on occasion Labor (it was not unknown for the Labor Electoral League to endorse someone else against a sitting member who was quite uncontroversially still in caucus). I think for this period we have to have a different way of thinking of party politics altogether, essentially divorcing the parliamentary and electoral wings from each other. If you can determine how someone was affiliated in parliament, I would say that would override any electoral endorsements. With the NDL - was there actually an NDL parliamentary team? Did people say they were in parliament representing the NDL? Was there any sort of caucus or parliamentary organisation? If there was, that's easy. If there wasn't, and the NDL was exclusively an electoral organisation, what did those people call themselves as a group? Liberals? Conservatives? Something else entirely? Frickeg (talk) 02:13, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm keeping this discussion here because it's with the two of you now. My hunch based on everything I've read is that there wasn't really a parliamentary NDL at this point. They supported conservative causes, supported conservative candidates, and some MPs were prominently involved in them, but there doesn't seem to be a parliamentary wing as such. I think that this explains some of the conflicting sources: why some sources (and our election articles) still primarily refer to the "Conservative" and "Liberal" blocs through to prior to the 1910 election, but also why the SA parliament site refers to some but not all MPs involved with the NDL as being NDL. It seems pretty likely to me (and this is a period I haven't researched in detail yet) that if the NDL weren't a parliamentary party already, they at least practically became one around the 1906-10 term due to the rise of the LDU on the other side of non-Labor politics: every non-Labor member is clearly and solely affiliated with one of the three going into the 1910 election, even where they agreed to cross-endorse. That may have happened earlier (still haven't read up on the birth of the FPPU).


 * In parliament, I think at least through the 1890s, the answer to all of Frickeg's questions is "no": they don't seem to have had any of those things, and just seem to have supported candidates they liked who then aligned with either the loose conservative or liberal blocs in parliament, mostly the conservatives. I like Frickeg's approach to determining party membership, but it's so murky on the non-Labor side that it probably means not listing anything non-Labor until at least the 1903-1906 term and the formation of the FPPU, and possibly even 1906-1910.


 * This does leave the question, and it goes back a lot earlier but it comes up here because it crosses over with the birth of the party system - how do we refer to the non-Labor people here? Archibald Peake was probably the first unarguably partisan non-Labor Premier of SA in 1909-10 (for the LDU), but as Premier of South Australia notes there were Premiers leading clearly conservative or liberal governments going back to at least 1890. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:25, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * One last addition: the wording of our article on Richard Butler suggests similar challenges to what we're talking about with the NDL with the FPPU at first: "Butler became the parliamentary leader of an informal group of country members supported by the Farmers and Producers Political Union in 1904." How would you both refer to that group? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Where did you source the party affiliations for Members of the South Australian Legislative Council, 1910–1912? I can't seem to locate them in the ref used. Timeshift (talk) 02:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Fiona Patten
Please spare me juvenile ad hominem comments. Articles need to state things truthfully. What is an "adult shop industry"? It sells shops? It sells adults in shops? No, it as industry that sells pornography, sex toys and various other sex-related products. I'm happy to accept any form of words that states accurately what the EROS Foundation's members do. I'm not happy to accept this feeble euphemism. Intelligent Mr Toad 2 (talk) 05:06, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

SA electorates
Can you find anything on Electoral district of Young (South Australia), Electoral district of Newcastle (South Australia), Electoral district of Gladstone (South Australia)? Timeshift (talk) 06:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

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Carroll
Yes he is? Frickeg (talk) 08:27, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Waterside Workers Federation fuddle-uphgby
Hi, The Drover's Wife,

First of all, I was going to call this section "Waterside Workers Federation fuddle-up", but my rescue kitten is her usual sweet bonkers, and jumped up on my keyboard and did some typing for me, and I rather like her version. (I'd create an account for "User:Shirt58's naughty tortie", but her edits are usually things like "///////////////////////" and "qqqqqqwwwww". And there's also those pesky WP:ADMINCOND and WP:ADMINACCT policies. )

Usually I edit very slowly and carefully. (The six-sentence "Rodney Pople" stub took me about five hours to write.)

In the case of obviously notable articles put for speedy deletion, I go into Twenty20, multi-ball mode, and try to slog as many boundaries and use the flippers to keep as many balls in play as I can. Well, not in a literal sense; just adding reliable refs as quickly as I can.

You are right. I was wrong, and the Australian Trade Union Archives (written when I tried to slog as many boundaries and use the flippers to keep as many balls in play as I can) was also wrong as it can be verified from other reliable sources. Please let me know if you need any more WP:G6's deletions.

Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

John Darling Sr.
We are a bit confused by your suggestion. Could you possibly come by for a visit at Talk:John Darling Sr., and help clarify your request? —BarrelProof (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Gordon Walsh#Issues with this page
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Gordon Walsh. Your input is required. I have requested a WP:3O. Thanks. &#124; Naypta✉ opened his mouth at 06:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

July 2015
Hello, I'm Godsy. I noticed that you made a comment on the page User talk:Naypta that didn't seem very civil. Wikipedia needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 07:17, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Warnbro Sound


The article Warnbro Sound has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Substub and no interest in writing a stub

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Xx236 (talk) 08:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Norm Houghton (historian) AfD
Hi there

Wondering if you could have a look at this article Norm Houghton (historian), and see if you have a view on its notability, which has been proposed for AfD, and if you don't think t gets there yet, whether you have any suggestions for possible sources that might help, thanks Garyvines (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

SA parties
Yes, if anyone ever does really detailed articles on some of these MPs, we can always fix up the details of their switching then. The NDL was a tricky one - "National Defence League" is just way too long, especially for multi-member tables, and I've always been opposed to using initials in these kinds of lists because they provide no information to the general reader (who is not going to have heard of the NDL). Just "Defence" is another option, of course, or perhaps "National Defence" (instead of "Defence League", somewhat like "Liberal and Country" for the LCL). Frickeg (talk) 08:17, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

NSW LC
Thanks! It's been on my list for a while, and finishing the lower house actually increased my motivation to finish this one off. It's slowed down a bit because I came to the realisation that the NSW parliamentary website is deeply unreliable when it comes to the dates of LC terms starting and ending, so I had to go and cross-reference the word document I've been using with the hard-copy biographical register (term endings were sometimes decades off!). The actual article-writing shouldn't be too bad, either, because especially in the early days the bulk of MLCs were ex-MLAs (and they served for life!), so those articles are already done. I am particularly looking forward to getting to the 1930s, though, when it turns out Federal Labor did actually have a presence in the state parliament, something I've always wondered about (and it even appears there may have been a State Labor MLC, but I'll have to look further into that). Frickeg (talk) 03:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

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SA 1933
I found three, Jim Corcoran, Maurice Collins (who I double-checked on Trove given the name), and Tom Garland, as well as John Herbert Cooke in the LC (although I'm assuming you're not done there yet!). Great job! The pages with Labor splits are always fascinating, because you can see where people who might not have been in parliament at the time were. Frickeg (talk) 12:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, yay! I look forward to reading more of that article! I assume the plan is to include the state splits as well? (Would be a great central place for all that tangled SA business!) If so I'd be glad to help with the NSW stuff, since I'm doing all that MLC stuff anyway at the moment and I think that's the only place where any actual parliamentary splits happened. Frickeg (talk) 12:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You're not the only one re: Lang, that is an awful name. Probably should be something more along the lines of New South Wales constitutional crisis, 1932. And it's been fascinating learning more about early SA politics (about which I know essentially nothing) through your work in this area. I had had no idea there was a place where 1931 was more insane than NSW.


 * I hadn't thought about a page of each state split, but that makes a lot of sense - especially given the differences between, say, the 1916 split in WA and the 1916 split in Tasmania. I'll keep an eye out for appropriate content and try to contribute a bit when I get the time. What do you think about tables as a succinct way of indicating who ended up where? Frickeg (talk) 20:45, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Labour or labor
Hi!! Don't they spell it "labor" in Oz? This category (Category:Australian labour movement) should be corrected, no? Yours, Quis separabit?  01:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Andrew Kirkpatrick (Australian politician)
 * added links pointing to Observer and John Gunn

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SA LotO
Good spot at Leader of the Opposition (South Australia) with Corcoran! Though it meant that Bannon onward required their infoboxes to be updated with the correct number. I've done it but just a heads up :) Timeshift (talk) 15:41, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh wow, didn't notice that, another nice pickup! And to think that I thought I found Kirkpatrick a few years as the only missing Labor leader. Good work :) OTOH, just when you find the last remaining pic-less Labor leader pics of Lacey and O'Halloran... Timeshift (talk) 15:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Federal Labor
I think it's probably necessary - there's no way to cover it adequately in the ALP article and the state Labor article would have more to do with Lang than Federal. I'm out of commission for the next week or so but am happy to help dig up some sources after that. My limited understanding is that at state level at least it was a separate party called the "Federal Labor Party", but would need to confirm that. Frickeg (talk) 08:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Frickeg (talk) 09:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Candidates of the South Australian state election, 1921
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Proposed subcategory: Places of Noongar significance
Your input is requested at WT:WikiProject Noongar. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Trent Zimmerman
Please reconsider the deletion of this bio. Given the comment in this yesterday's Sydney Morning Herald (below) I'm sure many people will be looking for information on this notable political figure.

"The current NSW Liberal Party president, Trent Zimmerman is the front runner to replace Mr Hockey in the seat of North Sydney, with the moderate faction claiming a strong hold on the numbers in local branches.

No date has been set for a byelection yet but insiders were not ruling out a factional battle over the preselection, with predictions the Right faction would resist Mr Zimmerman taking the plum seat.

Mr Zimmerman is a long time mover and shaker in the so called 'wet' faction of the Liberals both in state executive and behind the scenes. He has worked for Mr Hockey as a staffer and is currently a senior policy adviser at the lobby group, Tourism and Transport Forum (TTF). He is openly gay and is the current state president of the party."

14:49, 5 February 2015 Deor (talk | contribs) deleted page Trent Zimmerman (per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trent Zimmerman)

Castlemate (talk) 22:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

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Succession Boxes
No problem at all with helping out. I have noticed quite a lot of missing "boxes" on a number of little known MP's. If you need help with anything in particular just let me know Linkqer (talk) 15:32, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Alfred Blackwell
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 * Candidates of the South Australian state election, 1915
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 * Electoral district of Victoria
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reverting CSD nominations
I think you should explain why you've reverted CSD nominations for Ulster Wildlife Trust ‎  and Light Railway Research Society of Australia ‎. Where are the assertions of importance? The Dissident Aggressor 01:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Please go to the talk pages! The Dissident Aggressor 01:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:HOUND
Ok, now I think you're hounding me. Please knock it off! The Dissident Aggressor 01:02, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Stop
It's clear from this edit that you have no idea what you're doing. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I did NOT remvove the speedy deletion notice. Please stop.

Go to the talk pages before you continue reverting and WP:HOUNDing my edits. The Dissident Aggressor 01:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:NPA
By the way, you might want to check someone's creds before you make personal attacks like saying someone spends their entire time on Wikipedia  nominating established articles for deletion. The Dissident Aggressor 01:20, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Racecourse, Queensland. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 09:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Iggy Azalea
On 19:19, 30 October 2015 you added Template:POV and Template:Too few opinions to the article Iggy Azalea. The first template states, "Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page." I didn't see a section that refers to this template. Did you create a section on Talk:Iggy Azalea to post your rationale for this template? Mitchumch (talk) 03:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

NSWLC
Thanks! It's actually been a really enjoyable job. Just finishing off the final list (1856-61) now, and will then do the last member bios from the pre-1856 period. Should all be done in a week or so! Frickeg (talk) 04:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There'll probably be a lull for a bit, but most likely cross-checking NSW candidates with the ADB. Once I'm ready to do more MP bios I'll probably look at Victoria. Frickeg (talk) 04:06, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Awesome work with Walker! There'll be a bunch more of these people tomorrow, especially the 1861 appointees who never took their seats, should you be interested. Frickeg (talk) 08:20, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

The Betoota Advocate
I see that you have reverted twice and applied for page protection on the grounds that it was a 'hoax article', but this was declined. Earlier versions were indeed hoax articles, but I am asking for this article to be undeleted as I believe the subject now meets Notability criteria. I note the recent controversy, covered by both the Sydney Morning Herald and ABC, where John Eales felt it necessary to respond publicly to a satirical Betoota Advocate piece, indicating that it is now a popular site. In the SMH article in the References, journalist Peter FitzSimons describes it as a 'popular satirical website.' The News satire article also refers to it. Elitism (talk) 21:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Who are the 'you' who is 'spamming'? I had nothing to do with the earlier hoax articles. Where in my article was there 'faux-history'? You'll have noticed that User:NeilN, in declining your application for page protection, said 'not a hoax and the article has more sources than the one deleted at AFD'. Elitism (talk) 04:59, 3 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I will ask the question again: would you care to point out the 'faux-history' in my versions of the article?Elitism (talk) 11:09, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

LGA question
Hi The Drover’s Wife, I copied the thread from my talk page to yours as it is likely to grow...
 * Hey, thanks for adding to the tags to the early LGA articles I created. You seem to have a bit of a knack for making sense of South Australia's unusually complicated gazettal arrangements for places and such, and I was wondering if there's any chance you might be able to help me. The sources I've discovered online, plus Trove, make any LGA that was out of existence before 1923 a piece of cake to cover from my computer. Given a few weeks, I'm going to hit up the State Library and look up some of the recommendations of book sources I've seen after that, but I'm not sure how much luck I'll have. The problem I see coming up is that I can fill in all these early blanks, but when it comes to some of the big holes in the region I'm currently working on - Port Adelaide and Woodville being the two obvious ones there - these are beyond any source I can get my hands on right now. They clearly need to be broken out from their 1990s-era super-municipalities so we can tell the full history before they got merged, but I'm not sure of how to source exactly what type of LGA they were at what time - most states just had shires, towns and cities, but SA has a whole lot of them that were never terribly consistent and I'm getting a bit stuck on how to trace the histories of the longer-lasting councils. Any ideas? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 16:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi I have the following initial comments.


 * 1) Mergers of the 1990s - I presume that a process of consultation would have taken place and that there would be reports and minutes of this somewhere available.  I do remember finding one of these reports when looking for something else online recently.  A good place to start would be the State Records SA website (i.e. http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/).  By the way, you can order records online and view these in the reading room at the State Library of SA.
 * 2) Planning legislation - the following link opens a lengthy document that list amendments to the development plans for a number of LGAs that ceased to exist in the last years of the twentieth century or the early years of the twenty-first century - http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/177935/Historical_council_record_of_consolidations.pdf.  This list would allow you to identify some of the LGAs that were merged to form the current LGAs.  The development plans (DP) for the now non- existent LGAs were available online until relatively recently when the specific webpage was removed.  I was hoping to download a number of these to better understand the extent of the Riverland whose WP article is in need of an upgrade.  These DPs would have been very useful as these contained maps showing the former LGA boundaries as well as written descriptions.
 * 3) State Centenary in 1936 - I saw a hardcopy of a book called “South Australian Centenary, The Official Civic Record of South Australia 1936” in the library at State Records in 2014.  It contains a description of each LGA in SA as of 1936.  I recently noticed that it is viewable online at http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-11350397/view#page/n0/mode/1up.  The content of this document would move you up to 1936.
 * 4) History of SA Councils (on the LGASA website) - please refer http://www.lga.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=2868 - there is a picture of the cover of a book called “The Civic Record 1986” whose content could get you up to 1986.  This is also a link to a paper by Dr Susan Marsden (refer below) entitled “A History of South Australian Councils until 1936” which would be useful to read in conjunction with the “Civic Record” book discussed above.  It also would be prudent to do a thorough search of the LGASA website to see what else is there.
 * 5) Access to books - If you live in SA, you can borrow books from any local library within the state via your local library using the “one card network” (please refer http://www.libraries.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=499).  I have used this service to get access to a number of books to use as sources for articles.
 * 6) Woodville - There is a professionally written history about the former Corporation of the City of (formerly District Council) of Woodville called “A history of Woodville” (author - Susan Marsden).  Of interest, is a map on page 3 that shows the LGA boundaries for the period from the mid 1850s to 1977.  Also, the City of Charles Sturt does have some local history content on its website which may include some information about the merger with Hindmarsh (sometime after 1977) prior to the creation of the City of Charles Sturt.
 * 7) Port Adelaide - At the moment, I have little to offer in respect to Port Adelaide.  From memory, there is at least one history of Port Adelaide.  I have not done much searching online apart from looking at the following sites - http://porthistory.net/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/paelocalhistory/sets.
 * 8) Other WP articles - for your information, I am interested in doing an upgrade to Local government areas of South Australia in respect to the statutory administration arrangements and the management of park, reserves and other open space within the responsibility of local government. By the way, there is a discussion on the talk page of the above article re the subject of former SA LGAs.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 00:55, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Further to Item 4 above, I should have included the following link rather than talk about it as it is probably the most useful to you in the first instance - http://www.lga.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/LGA-89938_-_2011_18_-_FINAL_History_of_SA_Councils.pdf.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 20:02, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Maintenance tags on Matagarup Refugee Camp
Hi there. I notice that you removed the POV tag from the article Matagarup Refugee Camp, with the explanation "no explation for tags". I am puzzled by this, because it seems clear to me that the article is very one-sided. It is written from the protesters' point of view, with no acknowledgement of any dissenting view. Regardless of one's personal views, this is well short of the sort of balance I would expect, and I suspect it was written to try to justify the protesters' actions. It is filled with emotive language such as talking about the "Western Australian Government's threat", the unsourced statement that the city "refused the right of the protesters to camp, protest and to shelter the homeless", the city "raided" the camp, allegations of excessive force which are only sourced to YouTube, and that they "have brought the right of the homeless to camp at Heirisson Island before various tribunals, mediation and courts" (once again, assuming that they are in the right and the police and councils are wrong). So I would be interested to hear why you removed the tag - do you really feel this is a balanced article?--Gronk Oz (talk) 07:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply on my User Talk page, . I think we may be talking at cross purposes - you talked about verifiability, but I was talking about a different issue - balanced reporting, or a "neutral point of view".  The article in question is written to portray only the protesters' side.  It has used only articles which favour the protesters.  It uses language which indicates strongly that the protesters have the legal right to be there, without mentioning that the law actually prohibits it.  It fails to mention the safety and sanitation issues, with overflowing toilets and people defecating in the camping area - these are not just unpleasant, they mean the government is required to act since it has a duty of care. The article as it stands presents a decidedly one-sided view in my opinion, and I will be interested to hear why you feel otherwise before I decide whether it is worth taking this to the article's Talk page for wider input.--Gronk Oz (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

O'Connell
I'll keep that in mind - at the moment the Victorian MPs are the main project (plus a few NSW fringe people on the side), though. Will have to keep an eye out for potential sources! Frickeg (talk) 04:48, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Wheat Creek Culvert
I am not sure exactly what is going on here in terms of telling the story about the relocation/destruction. The culvert was at least 25 metres long according to the QHR. Now I think it unlikely they have relocated all 25 metres of it into the bus station. Look at the photo in the infobox; it looks to me like they've only relocated a metre or two and painted in the "blue light" tunnel interior and surrounded it with interpretation material. In which case, they have probably destroyed some/all of the rest of it. I guess I need to eyeball it to work out just how much of it is really left in the bus station. But thanks as always for your interest in these QHR articles. Kerry (talk) 06:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * My husband has offered to drop in and eyeball it (he works in the CBD). As for the Pizzey Memorial Clock, I had no joy either. I tried emailing the heritage unit at the Bundaberg Regional Council but the email address (taken from their website) bounced! I'll keep digging. Given its location on the edge of the Bruce Highway, I'm betting some kind of road crash may be involved. Kerry (talk) 00:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, I have some answers. There is about a "bit over a metre" of culvert on display in the bus station. And the Pizzey Clock is not destroyed but rebuilt at a new location in order to develop the old location into Millenium Park which features a Kanaka Monument instead. Indeed, you can see the Pizzey Clock here in Google Street View at the Childers Heritage Museum. If you compare it with this older image, you will see a number of differences and a new shorter base and clock face now has roman numerals. What's retained appears to be the breeze blocks behind the clock face (breeze blocks are so Queensland!) and the squared-circle shape of the clock face. So not "destroyed" as the QHR claim, but apparently its relocation was the reason for being dropped from the QHR.  Kerry (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for indie talkpage contrib - but to a more pressing issue...
This really annoys me. What are your thoughts? Timeshift (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

sigh
Its not just the lake, it is regularly used as a locality name in nickel mine material, and geographically, and geologically it is not just the lake its the hinterland.... reason for not doing what you have just done.... but, its november and everything is topsy turvy... JarrahTree 00:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * nah NBD - hey there are more bush turkeys to worry about rather than naming conventions, btw thnks for some of your more interesting campaigns of recent half of year, I owe you a beer or latte sometime, if we ever meetup in RL JarrahTree 00:25, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

SA Cabinet / Ministries
Hey. The coding is pretty simple, just copy it from the ones I have done and u should be fine. If not I can always update them at a latter date :) Linkqer (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Alternative Port Working Party
I don't think this belongs in the category Community activists.because, as you say, its not a person. Can you find something appropriate?Rathfelder (talk) 11:29, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Commissioner of Public Works
Hi, you are completely correct. I created this page with what I thought was full information, however i've since seen my error. I also agree with you saying re current portfolios, and placing the historical titles as just that.

Further more Commissioner of Public Works went through many forms, I believe it can be placed in the current Transport and Infrastructure portfolio. (Commissioner of Public Works -> Minister of Works -> Minister of Public Works -> Minister of Public Infrastructure -> Minister of Infrastructure -> Minister for Transport and Infrastructure) this is a per the Parliament website, not through the Statistical Register, however all the dates match from what I can see. I have built a replacement table, based on the table on Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development (Australia) page, which you can hopefully view at User:Linkqer/sandbox. Thoughts always wanted Linkqer (talk) 09:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Vic LegCo
Ack, yes, you're right. Should be all good now. I was hoping to be able to include a change column but apparently the table isn't wired for that, and I'm not really good enough to be able to fix it so that it's an option (although it may be for the best, given the staggered term thing). Frickeg (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm Oiyarbepsy. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, William H. Bennett (newspaperman), and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:31, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

The Times and Northern Advertiser
The Times and Northern Advertiser served a town with a population of a mere 1700 people. What makes this small-town newspaper notable? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:32, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

 * Thanks for your work on Australian and Worst Australian subjects and topics for 2015
 * Have a safe and enjoyable christmas season
 * Best wishes to you and all your family JarrahTree 11:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Gardner
Thanks! Although it was only because I happened to be looking at Psephos for that election that I caught it. He's almost certainly not the only one on that list of mine whose death has gone pretty much completely unnoticed (that's what the list is for, after all, to try and catch those people!). Frickeg (talk) 07:58, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Zwar
It was a bit of a judgement call; Psephos listed his reason for not running as a Liberal as his support for Macfarlan. The whole ministerial/oppositionist thing in 1945 is very unclear and I'm not at all sure that there was an official ministerial "list"; it certainly never seems to have been a proper party. The candidates lists I've found in Trove have generally seemed to have classified people as "Govt Lib" purely depending on whether they had espoused support of the Macfarlan government, and they're not consistent between each other. I'm not really sure of the best way of doing it anyway - I mean, Mackrell and Allnutt and Hollins were running as official government supporters too (Mackrell and Hollins as ministers!), but it wouldn't be right to put them under a "Liberal" banner. It might be a better idea to separate the Ministerial column from the Liberals, and to have instead a separate Ministerial column with (Lib), (CP), (Ind) after them like the way we do the Coalition now. I'm far from certain about this. Frickeg (talk) 05:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've given it a go. I think it almost certain there are other ministerial supporters amongst the independents, but it would take combing through each of their press coverage individually to be sure and I don't think I'll do that right now! Frickeg (talk) 05:38, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

I made this plea with you largely in mind - hoping you can help as I'm drawing a complete blank on finding a decent source. Of course I could spend hours digging through Trove but I'm hoping you might have something simpler? Frickeg (talk) 12:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks from me too! Kerry (talk) 09:04, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Thanks for reviewing Cyclone Leonta, The Drover&#39;s Wife.

Unfortunately Topbookclub has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:

"reviewed page and added categories"

To reply, leave a comment on Topbookclub's talk page.

Valid Redlink?
I'm not sure what you mean by a "valid redlink". That makes no sense. A redlink means there is no article/broken link. -Topbookclub

Disregard
Never mind I have read the Wikipedia:Red_link article and understand what you mean now. I thought that red links were a article that had been deleted. Sorry! -Topbookclub

Vaiben Solomon
Hi TDW! Could you please move the Vaiben Solomon page to Vaiben Louis Solomon? He was known that way more often than not, and I may soon have enough on the original VS, his uncle, to start an article. Doug butler (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Tony Piccolo's factional alignment
Hi, following you edit to Tony Piccolo, I wonder if you would mind substatiating your assertion regarding Piccolo's alignment with the right faction with a statement and a reference? Also do you have a reference to refute the referenced info you deleted regarding Piccolo's alignment from 2010? I've also started a discussion about this on the Tony Piccolo talk page. --Danimations (talk) 02:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Aust Ambassador to North Korea
Hi and thank you for that note on the unfinished sentence in the List of Australian Ambassadors to North Korea page! I have fixed at the article. Clare. (talk) 22:28, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Request for comment
Your thoughts at Talk:South Australian state election, 1950 would be appreciated :) Timeshift (talk) 15:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I thought it was timely that I dropped you a line to congratulate you on the masses of SA MP images you've been uploading recently. Considering how relatively comprehensive the area of SA politics has become recently, the images really are the icing on the cake. Just on it's own it makes the subject area look even far more professional. Wikipedia has truly evolved in to the Internet repository of SA politics. Well done to you in particular and to all who contributed, large and small. Somehow I doubt they care, but if they did, the ECSA and Antony Green would truly be green with envy. In addition, are you done with SA politics improvements for now or do you plan to keep going? While we've certainly come a very long way, there's always more to do. We have only a solitary Rann Government article, almost no by-election articles prior to 1968, no maps prior to 2006 (1993 to 2002 maps used 2006 boundaries with a caption indicating as such) but we do have maps contained within links for each election article going back to 1985. Tracing/copying of those maps going back to 1985 would be a great start, but i'd be over the moon if we somehow managed to find and use maps going back to at least the start of single-member electorates. Maps going back to ~1900 or even earlier is a pipe dream I think, but who knows. These continue to be the missing areas off the top of my head, are there any other areas that come to mind for you that I can mentally add to my to-do list? I never thought SA politics on here would ever get anywhere near what it is today so i'll never say never. I assume this link covering federal maps right back to 1901 has come to your attention before? I couldn't believe my eyes when was first shown it, though the slight distortion of some boundaries was a little bit of a let-down. But still gave a lot of insight in to federal boundary history which I find fascinating. If only there was an SA state equivalent... Timeshift (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Doing articles like Rann Government are great in the right circumstances (we need a Weatherill Goverment article...) but it is going to be really tricky if/when someone gets around to doing Dunstan Government and Playford Government articles. I still miss User:Beneaththelandslide despite having left this site many years ago - he was one of our finest talents and a great loss to SA politics coverage. His finest achievements (a very big deal at the time) was that he got Dunstan and Playford to Featured Article status when it was the norm to have both the biography and their government intertwined in to the same article. But times change, and now the Dunstan and Playford articles, while still fantastic, will be an absolute nightmare to whoever dares to butcher up the Featured Articles, one for the person, one for the government. It would definitely put the FAs in to jeopardy. Whoever ends up doing it has mighty courage, in a way it's like taking an axe to tutankhamun. Timeshift (talk) 15:17, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. In regards to your expansions and layout changes for MPs/Premiers, sorry to take the lazy way out but just wanted to know if when you come across an electoral district or an election, are you adding links to those seats/elections? One of the things I historically remember is when the MP/Premier articles were created, most seat/election articles did not exist and were therefore just plain text without links. Over time you may have noticed i've been linking to them here and there, but was wondering and hoping that you might be doing the same too? Timeshift (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Smithsonian and Holt
Might I inquire as to the reason you make a claim of fact in Wikipedia's voice which is not made in the Smithsonian Magazine's voice? And why the part about the rumours which is clearly found in that source as a straightforward claim is so casually removed here? Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:32, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

South Australian elections
Well done for starting all those election articles. One query I had with regards to them (and other Australian ones) is the use of "colonial election". I've never felt it's really the right descriptor – of course, South Australia was a colony at the time, but we don't use the term "colonial election" for any other country that was a colony. Would "South Australian House of Assembly election, XXXX" perhaps be better? Cheers, Number   5  7  21:22, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Shamba
I'll keep my eyes open for more background information and add it to the article. My personal impression is that this came about very recently. Shamba has been an independent political force since the 2004 election. Back then he already founded his own politicial party, the Social-Democratic Party. When he rejoined government first as Foreign Minister then as Prime Minister I guess he sort of no longer needed it (just as Aitaira no longer really served a purpose when Alexander Ankvab and Leonid Lakerbaia joined the government). After the 2011 election Shamba retired, at least from active politics. Since last year, he's back, and he has had some influence in Parliament, but he can now back this up with a political party with an existing machinery and quite extensive membership. United Abkhazia in turn have been fighting against irrelevance. They supported the 2011 revolution, but they are not in the centre of power and don't offer any political vision apart from the appropriation of the memory of Sergei Bagapsh. And they have been looking for a new leader since Daur Tarba resigned last year. So I would say this is a classic case of a political party looking for popularity and a strong, well known individual politician finding each other. sephia karta |  dimmi  12:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually, this article reports that in the sidelines of the United Abkhazia congress, it was being said that Tarba resigned specifically to make room for Shamba. (Which still fits with what I wrote above.) sephia karta  |  dimmi  12:31, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 13 February
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:20, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Puttapa page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=704713755 your edit] caused a URL error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F704713755%7CPuttapa%5D%5D Ask for help])

Chuckles
I got a giggle out of your edit summaries when you moved the Woolshed Flat Railway Bridge from the Clare Valley to Pichi Richi Pass. Watch out - Stirling North is a long way from Stirling East, too. Do you have any heritage items you need place articles created to hang them on? I'm happy to help make the places if you would like. --Scott Davis Talk 11:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 15 February
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 * On the District Council of Kimba page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=705095889 your edit] caused a broken reference name (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F705095889%7CDistrict Council of Kimba%5D%5D Ask for help])

Campbell Newman page reverts
If reverting or undoing edits made to the Campbell Newman page, please explain why changes were made. I see no justification for your reverts other than politically motivated bias. The biography of any living person must be neutral and factual in tone and as up to date as possible. --Brizvegan (talk) 03:41, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * TDW, I just added a lot of nag tags to BV's supposedly unbiased and neutral version, then this morning did a blanket revert to before their edits as I agree they were POV, substantial, unreferenced and not discussed. Since then I fixed some dashes and tenses, maybe added a reference, happy for you to revert those if you need to, they were very minor. --Canley (talk) 02:20, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Chris Osborne
Hi, haven't had time to add more references and citations as yet. Jarama52 (talk) 17:08, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Stuarts Creek, South Australia
Hi, Thanks for writing the article. I have the following comment. The Outback Communities Authority (OCA) only provides municipal services to communities to the unincorporated area within the SAG regions of the “Eyre & Western” and the “Far North”; it does not manage the entire unincorporated area. The latter service is provided by various SAG agencies and the Commonwealth government where it has jurisdiction. The most recent available OCA annual report does not mention any communities within Stuarts Creek while the map on the OCA website does not show any communities (please refer http://www.oca.sa.gov.au/?q=communitieshome ). I have not remove mention of the OCA from the article yet as I am wondering what information is available on Location SA Map Viewer. Also, I would suggest that you use a title such as “Search result(s) for Stuarts Creek 5720” for the citation as this will suggest to the reader that they may have to do a search in order to validate the information. If you wish to reply, please do so here and not on my talk page. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 21:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Cowdy, I am glad you brought this up, because it's way more complicated than I'd realised. It actually seems to be even more confusing: for one, Stuarts Creek is in the Far North region, so it isn't defined by those regions, and the last annual report refers to a number of communities that aren't on that map (big heritage works at Farina, a number of small communities it refers to as "dormant" that aren't on there, and I didn't read the whole thing), but doesn't seem to anywhere obvious provide a complete explanation of exactly how broad their jurisdiction is. It also states in its purpose section that the OCA "manages the provision of public services and facilities to outback communities including smaller settlements such as farming, pastoral and tourism enterprises". However, the whole thing is so vague about what exactly they do in these really small localities that I feel like the only way to get a direct answer might be to contact the department for an explanation and hope they have a public source we can use. In the meantime, I think the best way is to remove the OCA from anywhere we can't explicitly show they're active, and I've done that in the case of Stuarts Creek.


 * I will also take on board your suggestion about reference naming and have done it for the Stuarts Creek article. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 01:14, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

WA 1983 Upper House
Whoops, it was a typo. It's fixed now. Thanks for double checking. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 22:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

rwsa
did you feel any need to explain your dislike for a working template on a page that you've never edited ? and yet the other edits I made the same day are left alone ? --Dave Rave (talk) 01:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Point Boston
Point Boston is a bounded locality, not just a geographical feature - please check before going for the redirect! Sorry to have to be a harpy - I'm still working on localities in that area so I'll get to it shortly but current LOCBs getting redirected is a pet hate of mine. (It's also not in, or adjacent to, Boston!) The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry, my oversight. If it still needs fixing I'll fix it. Donama (talk) 00:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Murray Bridge
Can you please not redirect these LOCB topics? There are several of us trying to get articles on all of these and you just rendered the locality lists for Murray Bridge useless in determining what does and doesn't have articles because now half of those that don't have unhelpful blue-links. I know you do a lot of good work, but this really hampers the efforts of others of us trying to tackle this, and it's not like you didn't know those were LOCBs and so were notable. Doing so many at a time (and on somewhere I'm not currently working on) means that's just going to be a mess that's going to get forgotten about instead of getting done with all the other localities. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:16, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the bother here. There were some LOCBs redirecting to Murray Bridge and it was inconsistent. The local council template didn't even have links and the list had typos. Now it *is* consistent. I don't think redlinks for these suburbs was the best way to ensure people knew the article wasn't there as zero (that is, none) existed. A redirect to Murray Bridge is a way to let everyone know no specific content yet exists. I did some similar work around Moonta, South Australia because it had the same problem. Donama (talk) 05:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I get that, but I'm literally running around fixing these council templates and lists today (I did a bunch of the Murray councils last night), and there's a lot less point in going to the trouble if they're all just random redirects to the nearest town. If you'd held off, there would have been a correct list without typos by, like, tonight.


 * I can fix a couple of LOCBs that are redirecting to a centre (as with, for example, Point Boston, which was no trouble), but I can't do it if someone goes and does all of them because that's days of concentrated work to do them properly, so those ones necessarily get shunted to to the bottom of the pile as too much of a headache. Redirecting to the nearest centre doesn't tell readers no content exists until they click the link and discover that the article they've been sent to doesn't even mention the place let alone contain any useful information, but it does make it much, much harder for editors trying to expand coverage to know that no content yet exists, to ensure that the "yet" doesn't come permanent, and to keep track of what does and does not need work.


 * I really find this one of the most disheartening things about making concerted efforts to fill in red links - people creating redirects on topics they know are notable to articles that contain nothing about the topic the link came from really does make that task so much harder. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:48, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I do take your point. I truly apologise for being a force for disheartening you. Let me be more careful in future! Donama (talk) 06:08, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I've obviously noticed your diligent work around Moonta lately and believe the same can be done for Murray Bridge (and probably other regional centres in SA) so I've started a little project to atone for my sins at User:Donama/Murray Bridge suburbs. Any help welcomed. Donama (talk) 07:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

File:Kiana.jpg listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Kiana.jpg, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Nick⁠—⁠Contact/Contribs 19:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

ANI notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Dave Rave (talk) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * you might have offered a note pointing to Citation templates before assuming that you have the consensus Dave Rave (talk) 03:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Highercombe council
Do you mind if I break out a separate article on the Highercombe council? It existed for 82 years and existed alongside Tea Tree Gully for 77 of them, so I feel that's notable. I think a lot of these cases where there are kind of overlapping councils (like I'm doing a whole bunch at the moment were a District Council got created for a cadastral hundred, the town incorporated leaving the District Council representing nowhere with any people, and that still surviving for 50 years) don't make sense unless they're actually broken out to clearly delineate them, and it also allows for separate lists of chairmen/mayors that would get too long in a merged article. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 03:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not at all. I'd already done it when I realised they existed side by side for more than 70 years! Please do it. Donama (talk) 04:34, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Queensland Police Service
The list is true and correct in 2016 as it is in 1987. the list shows honours the person had at the completion of their tenure, that is a globally accepted way of doing things. He held those honours until 1993, in any case, his 'GM' was never removed from him... I strongly suggest you check out Chief of the Defence Force (Australia) before reverting anything else. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 16:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Mayor
Just an FYI, I've modified Infobox Australian place so mayor will only display if lga. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 17:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Fun coincidence
Hi. I was doing family history stuff tonight instead of Wikipedia, and found one of my 3x great aunts died at Apoinga, South Australia. I didn't recall having ever heard of the place, but found it had a Wikipedia article - then noticed the creation date :-) You only created the article yesterday. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 13:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind message - and for the very useful expansion. Glad to know they're of interest. I'm finding the ones out Burra way a bit challenging because the modern localities don't easily line up with old uses, and it's very difficult for me to tell from say Trove whether a reference to "Apoinga" is talking about the hundred or about the much smaller but apparently never formally surveyed village that formed around the hotel and smelting works. Interesting nonetheless! The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 15:44, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * My 3x great aunt was in her 70s when she died in 1918, so I suspect she was living with one of her children or grandchildren on a farm (but I haven't worked out who or where yet), so the wider Hundred of Apoinga could well have been the intended meaning. My wife and I each have about 30 immigrant ancestors, and their descendants have been scattered across a lot of the state (and a few other places). Address recording seems to have been quite patchy in the days when the colony was small enough that most people knew where every named place meant. --Scott Davis Talk 06:49, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Royal Children's Hospital
You removed text saying, "not the place." - I responded noting, "Both citations refer to RCH Gender Service. There is balance both pos and neg. It is a contentious issue. How / why is it "not the place" to reference this? - You said, "an article on a major hospital is not the place to have a political argument about transgender rights" - I responded a week ago, "That is your POV. If you check Wikipedia's articles involving 'Hospitals', within those they contain hundreds of political arguments and controversies. Why should this issue be excluded?" - I am awaiting your response. B20097 (talk) 12:19, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Talk page size
Hello. It would appear that your talk page is growing oversized and getting difficult to read and load. Maybe you could set up some type of automatic archiving like this? Thanks!  JW  Noctis talk to me 10:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Enjoy!
Congratulations! you have made Wikipedia immeasurably less useful. In particular I love the bit you wrote about not a single newspaper compiling a list of Mehajer's shell companies when in fact the footnote on almost every single one of them pointed to this article in The Australian. Gotta love the work of someone as observant as you. I was also fascinated with your novel interpretation of WP:OR. One could almost call such a definition an attempt at doing some "original research" of No original research. It's definitely original, I'll grant you that! - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Required notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. (Apologies for IP hopping, I'm on a cellular connection) - 1.144.97.73 (talk) 09:51, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Eulalie Dawson
Hi TDW! I started on this article expecting it to be heroic and triumphant but found it ending tragically. Does it squeak through your notability gauge or should I rewrite it as Dean Dawson (footballer) ? Doug butler (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

your AfD comments
You might want to note what an admin said about you here Articles for deletion/List of Consuls-General of Australia in Milan. In addition to your continual WP:ADHOM comments against me in AfDs. LibStar (talk) 04:37, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * it's funny because many that i have nominated like the list of consuls are being deleted. Using WP:ADHOM or WP:MUSTBESOURCES arguments without stating a single source doesn't work. Your comments don't deter me one bit in fact encourage me to nominate more. Suggest you concentrate on genuine arguments for keep. LibStar (talk) 06:28, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * This was closed as delete Articles for deletion/Indian Ambassador to Cote d'Ivoire. so much for your suggested topic ban for me. LibStar (talk) 03:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 25 May
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Moonta, South Australia page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=722049138 your edit] caused an unsupported parameter error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F722049138%7CMoonta, South Australia%5D%5D Ask for help])

Dittmer
I was surprised too! It's probably because it's mostly in the context of his dad, and then they say "his son, Barry ...". There's quite a lot if you Google for Barry Dittmer, especially in Hansard (Jo-Ann Miller mentions him in her maiden speech and he's also mentioned in the condolence motion for his dad). Frickeg (talk) 09:37, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I was really glad to find it, because before every time I saw it I would go, "oh, look, I forgot to link that!", and then I would figure out why. Frickeg (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

3RR
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.-- g. balaxaZe   ★  10:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Pointless reverts
You are playing reverting battle and removing materials without discussion and this is against Wikipedia rules. Stop your reverts and discuss everything here, if you don't I'll revert your edits and advice you to do not change status quo unless you won't provide explanations or you risk to be blocked.-- g. balaxaZe   ★  10:11, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Tony Briffa
You reverted my adding of the Category:Genderqueer people with the comment "no source for that category". However, Wikipedia's genderqueer article starts off "Genderqueer (GQ), also termed non-binary or gender-expansive, is a catch-all category for gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine‍". And we have multiple sources for Tony identifying as both male and female. So please tell me how this category is a problem? -- Brainy J  ~ ✿ ~ ( talk ) 02:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Requested moves
Hi DW! Can I please enlist your expertise to move Daily Herald (Adelaide) to The Herald (Adelaide) over the existing redirect? After starting a separate page for The Weekly Herald/The Herald I figured they were better as one article though there was discontinuity in banner, issue numbering offices and staff.

Also, I reckon The Truth (Melbourne) (and other capitals) should be moved to Truth (Melbourne) etc, as "The" was never part of the paper's title. Doug butler (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, thought you had a permit. Cheers! Doug butler (talk) 05:20, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Einasleigh Copper Mine and Smelter
What's your opinion on the following paragraphs, in particular the mention of a conservative government being elected in 1923? It looks to me like a Labor government was elected in 1923? Do you think they meant it was a Labor govt but one more conservative than the previous ones and thus opposed to State-owned enterprises? Your political knowledge is better than mine. Kerry (talk) 05:55, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

In 1919 the Queensland Government took over the Chillagoe Smelter and reopened the Einasleigh Mine under the terms of the Chillagoe and Etheridge Railways Purchase Act of 1918, at a cost of 100,000 pounds. By December it was at full output, providing three-quarters of the copper ore treated at the smelters thereby keeping the Chillagoe Smelters going. By 1920 the mine employed 100 men and was producing 450 - 500 tons of copper ore per week. However, the drop in metal prices in 1920 from 120 pounds to 72 pounds per ton, and the drain on the mine's reserves, led to the mine being closed in 1922.[1]

At this time the whole of the Chillagoe Field, the Chillagoe Smelter and mining operations generally in State-owned enterprises were losing considerable amounts of money. The election of a conservative government in 1923, opposed to State-owned enterprises led to the closure of the Smelter until 1926 when a Labor government was returned to power.[1]

Australian banking crisis of 1893
Thanks for that link. I'd searched previously without success for an article on the topic (which is kinda strange as the article is many years old so I should have found it, guess I used the wrong key words). The banking crash comes up a lot in the heritage register articles. I might have to do a bit of a search to add it in to other articles. Kerry (talk) 04:08, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Kuridala Township site
I think having looked into it, it must be Wallaroo, South Australia as they had copper smelters there as did Dapto NSW. There is no sign of Wallaroo NSW or Wallaroo WA being a copper town. Sound reasonable to you? Kerry (talk) 04:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Murray Bridge LGAs
Please no with the redirecting of past local governments! It just makes it that much harder to unentangle them because you can't see what doesn't have an article (and should) and it's hard to keep track of the ones that have been randomly redirected and need articles versus those that are actual legitimate redirects. At least this time it's one that's next on my list after Goyder and Copper Coast but it really is a nuisance. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is not randomly redirected. I considered carefully before doing this. The District Council of Mobilong and Corporate Town of Murray Bridge were 2 separate LGAs but both (the former in particular) has a continuous history with the present-day Rural City of Murray Bridge so I don't think it's necessarily logical for the separate articles to exist unless, of course, the current article gets big enough to warrant splitting it out, which I'm happy for anyone to do. I can't imagine doing this kind of a redirect in any other case. In fact, I'm keen to fix cases where it's already happened (e.g. City of Holdfast Bay). PS where is your todo list? Donama (talk) 06:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

The Block Arcade
Hello, I see you have changed the Wikipedia article of Block Arcade, Melbourne back to its original content. While I am sure you were doing this in the intent to make it better, I am an employee of the company and have express permission to alter the article. Thus, you changing it from all the work I put into it, is frustrating and I ask you change it back. I was informed that I could use the website as a means for information. Thank you for your time. Twchelsea12 (talk) 05:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

See my reply regarding Playford at User talk:Linkqer
Feel free to respond there, here, or on my userpage, if you wish to reply :) Timeshift (talk) 06:46, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

COPYVIO
" Even inserting text copied with some changes can be a copyright violation if there is substantial linguistic similarity in creative language or sentence structure; this is known as close paraphrasing, which can also raise concerns about plagiarism. Such a situation should be treated seriously, as copyright violations not only harm Wikipedia's redistributability, but also create legal issues." Copyright violations Close paraphrasing Spacecowboy420 (talk) 07:58, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016
Your recent editing history at Safe Schools Coalition Australia shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.''This is an honest warning. I realize that we don't agree on the content of this article, but I certainly don't want you to break 3RR and get blocked from editing. '' Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:55, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.''Come on. That's four reverts in 24 hours. Do the rules not apply to you? Please take advantage of my laziness and do a self revert, so I don't have to make a 3RR report and request that you are blocked.
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

'' Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

NT
It's been a while since it's been just the two of us on one of these! Good job updating all the seat pages. I notice you're considering Port Darwin in doubt and I've got Nhulunbuy, so going by past practice we should probably include them both. Frickeg (talk) 13:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we have to include Nhulunbuy because it was really only Antony's educated guesses (there's no 2CP count there yet). The Port Darwin reticence was a bit odd but the lead is only 191 in raw votes so I guess it could be turned around. The thing about Daly is that it still seems to be under 50% reporting; I dithered about counting it as in doubt but went with what seems to be the consensus. Frickeg (talk) 13:14, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yikes!! Although, just quietly, we had missed a few in the federal lists as well when I did them for the election (John Murphy, Sophie Mirabella - people who were in doubt on election night 2013 and then we forgot to go back and fix them up after the seats were declared). Frickeg (talk) 13:17, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016
Your recent editing history at Safe Schools Coalition Australia shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:40, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Shearers' Strike Camp Site, Barcaldine
If you have some spare time, could you take a look over my latest QHR article, which relates to the 1891 Australian shearers' strike. There are a number of early unions and labour organisations mentioned, which I have mostly left red-linked as I am unsure if we have any articles on them or that they might be meaningfully redirected to. I think your knowledge of the union/labour movement is far better than mine. Thanks for any help you can give here. Kerry (talk) 22:13, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * No urgency. Where to next? Come to the Sunshine State! Kerry (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Mass categorisation
Sure - happy to do so.

I'm not entirely convinced myself about some of the "20th-century people" categories, but it seems that's the way things are going. Besides, there are others on which I'd rather pick the battles that the ones involving politicians, as I can see some use there, at least in the abstract.

Happy editing, and keep up the good work! -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:35, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I turned it off a while ago - sorry about that. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:28, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Suggest this is another vote for paraphrasing
| Safe Schools B20097 (talk) 05:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Mass categorisation and watchlists
One way to better manage mass changes is to sign up to email watchlist notifications (Preferences > User Profile and scroll to the very bottom, dunno why it isn't on Preferences > Watchlists as you might expect). I then have a message rule to dump these notification messages into a particular email folder which I examine at my leisure (but usually each day when I "do my watchlist"). If I see a mass categorisation (or other mass activity) that doesn't seem problematic, I simply select all the emails related to that user or that edit summary (as appropriate) and delete them as a group and then pop over to my Watchlist on-wiki and click "Mark all pages as visited" (as email notifications happen only on the first change after your last visit to the page, so you need to reset things -- this is the only trap to watch out for). I find email notifications make me much more efficient and effective with managing my watchlist. And, having it all in a separate folder means I can ignore it when I am trying to focus, or look at it when I feel in the mood for it. It also means if I see something a bit problematic that I don't want to immediately deal with (usually because I don't want to discourage a new good-faith editor or it involves an editor with whom I might be having a less-than-harmonious discussion about another unrelated article), I can leave the email in the folder to remind me to come back and revisit it in a week or two or whenever it seems appropriate. I know a lot of people don't know about the email option (probably because it's not in Preferences > Watchlist) so I thought I would mention it in case it solved a problem for you. Kerry (talk) 09:54, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It also allows me to maintain discipline in keeping my watchlist small enough to be manageable (mine's a bit over 10K) and helps me control my focus (currently summarised as Queensland, minus current politics and sport, plus a few pet topics, e.g. Nevil Shute). I'd rather do a consistent job of watching those articles in which I am "invested" through my time and effort rather than do a half-arsed job of watching too many articles). When I get a notification about something I have edited but outside my focus, I unwatch it. So, yes, you may find yourself doing a bit of unwatching at the start but it does settle down. But maybe it just reflects my control freak personality type :-) Kerry (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Merging QHR content with existing articles
As an example of this see Ayr State High School. I am not sure I like it that way, two infoxes etc, but seeking your feedback on this difficult question of when to merge, when to create a separate article (appropriately named) or when to just forget about the QHR text. Kerry (talk) 07:36, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes to pretty much all you said. Over the years I've heard there is a way to merge infoboxes, but I've never seen it. So I left them as the two independent infoboxes in case we decided to split it out again. Re: Ayr State High School I'd have liked to have placed the QHR history section forward before the current-use sections (which are a bit lame). But it's an article with a long edit-history so I was concerned I might get push-back over incorporating large slabs of QHR content in any form, let alone putting large chunks of it in pole position, so I felt what I did was more diplomatic wrt to past contributors. Of course, I have been the major contributor to a number of pre-existing QHR articles (before getting my hands of the CC-BY text), so I am happy to be more ruthless in what I do to those! I'm about to head off on a cruise where my access to the internet will be measured in gadzillions dollars per MB via satellite, so I'll be off-wiki until November, so no immediate miracles to be expected on some of these topics. Kerry (talk) 10:27, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Unhelpful comments on SSCA discussion
Having asked for help with an article dispute, please don't then make snide comments about the editors who try to help. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Your email
A few months ago I would have, but being a gay man myself, I came to the conclusion that it was best for my time and mental health that from that point on, I avoid the article. Not to mention, considering plenty of users know i'm gay, I have no doubt that if I did continue, at some point, being gay would be used against me and would be the target of accusations of bias. I would strongly recommend you post something at Australian Wikipedians' notice board, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics, and perhaps even create an RfC. I am very much against those who seek to degrade the article and very much wish for you to get as many eyes on it as possible, but I no longer wish to be an active part of it. If there's any support/oppose discussions I very much request you to alert me to them as i'm happy to add my 2c there, but that's about it. All the best to you and this difficult area. Timeshift (talk) 07:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

District Council of Barmera
Hi, thanks for your comments on my page under the heading 'Canunda'. I just added a 'start' class article to District Council of Barmera. If you wish to reply, please do so here as I don't want you to keep adding stuff to 'Canunda'. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:31, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Please
Royal Commissions go way back - if you create a list like that you will need to put in process or whatever the templates are while you are adding JarrahTree 10:41, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Myer Centre, Adelaide
The notability template was intended as genuine and not vandalism. In my opinion there is no harm to keep the template there until notability has been established as this article has no evidence of it. Seeing you are adamant it is a notable topic I suggest you could make some improvements to the article yourself and avoid an AFD.Ajf773 (talk) 07:03, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * it seems to me somewhat disingenuous to remove the claim of notability as it was unsourced, and then tag the article as not claiming notability in the same edit. I have now reinstated that it is the largest Myer and the largest retail centre in the CBD, with a reference. --Scott Davis Talk 13:47, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding the link to Dazzeland. After a bit of searching, it seems there's a good mix of spelling as "Dazzleland" and "Dazzeland", but the photos seem to be consistent of the latter form, eg in the video and sign in and staff uniforms in the picture at . --Scott Davis Talk 22:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Satisfied with those edits that it's certainly a notable place. And I understand your point of view.Ajf773 (talk) 05:53, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Talkback
--Cameron11598 (Talk) 15:34, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Newspapers.com
Your account on newspapers.com is now active. Happy editing! --Cameron11598 (Talk) 22:25, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ugh, really? That is such a bummer. I guess I won't bother then. So many times when I've been researching for bios, this has come up with something that would be perfect but I can't see it. Sometimes there's a little text reader thing which is better than nothing, but still, this would've been great. Oh well. Thanks for letting me know! Frickeg (talk) 12:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I've not been on SMH through the NLA - I'll have to have a look and see if I can make any sense of it. Frickeg (talk) 13:04, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * As an aside, I often think about how nice it would be to be able to watchlist an editor. I realise this would create all sorts of wikihounding problems in more contentious areas, but since I'm pretty much always interested in the pages/AfDs/etc. you edit (not to mention create), it would be so helpful not to have to go to contribs all the time! (Basically, this is a thanks for picking up on things like that elections page AfD, which I might never have otherwise seen.) Frickeg (talk) 04:24, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Liberal Party (1922)
Honestly I think I just pulled it together from the not very much info we had at the time - we knew it existed and needed a place for the links to go. From what you've got there I'd hazard a guess that maybe the state organisation might have been part of the "splinter"? And that seems like Livingston was an actual Liberal too, which we haven't got anywhere. In fact from looking around it seems like the "Nationalists" weren't too keen on the Liberal Union at all - |||l-year=1922 here's defeated Adelaide MP Reginald Blundell laying into Premier Barwell. Ah, here we go: William Story |||l-year=1922 laying into the Liberal Union for being the only non-Labor party in Australia not to join the Nationalists. Story actually explains the whole thing pretty well, although we probably want someone from the Liberals telling their side of the story too. Frickeg (talk) 23:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Marwick
This is rather fascinating - as with you all the Trove evidence I could find says he was endorsed CP, but somehow both Psephos and the Biographical Dictionary of the Senate have the idea that he's an independent. I think the original error might be Hughes & Graham - my notes have them listing him as Ind CP in 1943. Pretty rubbish of the Senate biographical dictionary not to pick that up, though, even if it was published pre-Trove. Frickeg (talk) 06:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Synod of South Australia
Thank you for your encouragement to continue developing this article. It is now at Draft:Synod of South Australia, and I'd like someone else's (e.g. your) opinion of whether it is suitable to move to proper article-space. There are still two people missing from the list of past moderators as I haven't found an online source for who they were, and will have to try for offline sources through the week. I'm not sure what other kinds of things should be included in this article. If I start articles for the other synods of the UCA, my stubs are likely to be much shorter. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 12:06, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Sophie Mirabella revert
Hi Drover's Wife

Why did you revert my edit on Sophie Mirabella? The subsection I deleted was an exact copy of a sentence from the lead. Additionally, it used the phrasing "Ms Rinehart" as the source did, which does not explain that it is Gina Rinehart (as this article lacks the headline that source has) and is against WP:SURNAME by using "Ms". Finally, it doesn't accurately convey the job description/title presented in that source. I fixed these issues in the appearance of that sentence in the lead, and then when I saw the sentence again I saw no reason for it to be there, especially as it is a subsection about "Life after politics" within a section called "Political career", so it doesn't really fit. And the rest of the edit was just consolidating repeated sources and giving them better formatting.

Is there something I'm missing as to why you'd revert that? Unless I just missed it, I can't see an explanation provided.

BreakfastJr (talk) 00:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've moved the sentence from the lede to the final section, so that it's not repeated and so that the flawed version of the sentence is not there, and I've returned the fixes to the reference formatting. Is that a change you support?


 * Incidentally, I feel that it would be more productive if you made the specific changes you wanted, rather than a full revert (as that undoes useful changes, such as in this case the changes to the reference formatting), and/or explained in an edit summary or talk page message what precisely you see as unhelpful or needing improvement. Otherwise it's harder to know how to collaborate to improve the articles in question. BreakfastJr (talk) 06:42, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

New Farm Cinemas
I thought you might like to have a look at it given your concerns that the description section (taken from the Queensland Heritage Register) reflected the former Village Twin Cinemas and didn't reflect the current New Farm cinemas. I simply finessed the issue by making the Description heading specific to the Village Twin Cinema era and added a new (empty) description section for the New Farm era (with an abbreviated version of your tag). While it doesn't solve the problem of not having a good description of the current building, it does solve the problem of the description text being out of date. Better? Kerry (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I dunno if the QHR entry will be updated at any time. Perhaps they will de-list it or restrict the heritage component to a subset of the current cinema. I think I might reword the lede to make it clear that the New Farm Cinema itself doesn't have heritage-listing but contains components of the heritage-listed former Village Twin. Kerry (talk) 21:36, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Large scale deletion of content to dispute only a small amount
In relation to the new article on Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975, it would have been better if you had not deleted 911 characters without any explanation and then returned and deleted a further 3,784 etc‎ all because you disagreed with only about 60-odd characters. However, now that you have provided your actual objections, I have responded on the talk page and removed some of the material, as, although it is accurate, I don't think it is vital that it remains in that place. Hopefully the spirit going forward can be more co-operative. Cheers, Observoz (talk) 23:47, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Ballarat University
Hi,

I just saw your posting for the move, which makes sense. I was just there because I wanted to post a technical move to merge the history of Draft:Ballarat University to Ballarat University, as discussed on Talk:Ballarat University.

I posted a message with this edit on the Requested moves page. But, I'm not sure if that's right. If I click on discuss, that seems to make a message that I'm contesting the move, and I'm not.

Do you know what the right thing to do is? Thanks so much!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:46, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Potential article
Hi. our discussion about Apoinga led me to consider an article about the German schools that were closed during World War I. I was surprised to see the list in the news article you cited in one of your new articles. I have created User:ScottDavis/German schools in South Australia to see what I could write. I'm not wedded to the title, but figure that an article like this could be linked from the places that mention a former school that closed in 1917. What do you think? --Scott Davis Talk 13:45, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It could also be linked from Anti-German sentiment. Kerry (talk) 02:53, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Zhenya Wang and the Liberals
Not for want of trying, I can't find any reference on Twitter or Google News to Zhenya/Dio Wang joining the Liberal Party. Do you know which West Australian journo it was who confirmed it? --Canley (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks heaps, I couldn't find it because I was searching Twitter for "Wang" and "Liberal"/"Liberals", not "LiberalsWA"! --Canley (talk) 05:37, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Unhelpful?
OK, I'll take the bait and bite. Why are these two edits, &, "unhelpful"? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:28, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You've redlinked the council ward (which will never be notable enough for an article, most locality articles don't even mention the council ward), without even mentioning the council, implying that the ward is the council (and also implying that the author doesn't know the difference). And, as ever, it should give you pause that your response to that was to go ballistic instead of to notice the obvious that you apparently didn't the first time. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:41, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't done anything of the sort! Maybe you should pull you head in, learn some manners, and apologise? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:46, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Ha. You're one to talk about manners. You get what you give. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:48, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Pardon? I have NO idea what you're on about. Explain yourself please. Pdfpdf (talk)
 * ...do you have any idea whatsoever how you come across to people? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:00, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Dude, you're phenomenally rude to people in almost literally every interaction, and to add to that most of your edits are pretty bizarre (as with the message that prompted this discussion). This is not something that elicits sympathy in the people you talk to. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:02, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It may interest you to know that when you start insulting me, I get 2 or 3 emails from other wikipedians telling me that you are "snappy" and that I should be careful of you. To be perfectly honest with you, I couldn't care less what you think of me. When I politely ask you a question, like I did this time, I would like you politely to answer the question. No-one needs all the histrionics that you've added.
 * Just answer the question that was asked, please. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:20, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Kat Blaque
Pinging you since your latest edit was reverted. I can't deal with this kind of talk right now. If you can, have at it. Funcrunch (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC)/Archive %(counter)d }}
 * counter=1
 * maxarchivesize=75K
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 * minthreadstoarchive=2

Hi and welcome!
Hi there! I just wanted to drop by and say you're doing a great job with these Queensland political articles. I hope you'll stick around; we've been short-handed at the Australian politics project of late and we're in desperate need of some new faces. Keep up the great work! Frickeg (talk) 03:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Member lists
I mentioned this briefly over at WT:AUP, but I'm just playing around with it at this stage and am very much open to input. The idea behind it is to be able to expand the lists into something that could potentially be recognised as Featured (obviously a long way to go here). The colours (which are actually quite aesthetically pleasing to my eyes - different strokes, I guess) provide easier at-a-glance identification, although I'm open to persuasion on them (they were inspired by the US tables). The images, I would have thought, are pretty standard for lists of this kind (List of Australian Leaders of the Opposition is probably the most comparable recognised content). But as I said, I'm definitely open to suggestions and input. Frickeg (talk) 12:56, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

A few things
What's the rationale behind adding parties to succession boxes? I'm not sure they're quite necessary ... on another note, your input would be appreciated at the Senate splinter of the full results pages discussion, here. Frickeg (talk) 08:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect it might be a little too much information for what succession boxes are meant to be, which is basically a tool for navigation. I don't think it's ever been standard. Frickeg (talk) 09:27, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve Lyle Schuntner
Hi, I'm Alanl. The Drover&#39;s Wife, thanks for creating Lyle Schuntner!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. just tagging so others can see page needs expansion

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Proposed message when tagging a new page
After some discussion and some thought on help avoid the issue you experienced in the future, I have suggested to the tool developers that an hint be given in the page curation tool to hint to the patroller that the page is still new, and to consider waiting before tagging the page. (See [|bug 40580] to see the progress of this change.) Would you mind reviewing the draft message below and suggest any changes before it becomes final? Also, the proposal is for this message for pages that are less than 60 minutes old. Do you feel this is sufficient time, and if not, how much time would you suggest? "...a small indicator text below the headings "Add tags" and "Mark for Deletion" in the curation toolbar, like this:

Note: This page is only (x) minutes old. The user may still be working on it, so consider waiting before tagging it if the issues are fixable"

You can reply here and I will pass your suggestions to the developers. Alanl (talk) 04:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's not a bad idea. But I also think these tools have to be used a bit more sensibly, as someone else commented in the previous discussion - daubing a referenced, four-paragraph article that contains all central details to that topic and has no urgent need for expansion in "stub" and "referencing" tags isn't a terribly useful endeavour. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

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project tags
It seems for your bio articles other editors are doing the project tagging for you - well worth having a look at what they are doing on the talk pages - not that difficult to do - cheers   SatuSuro 01:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * simple request - look at the talk pages of the pages you have created - you are, by your creating the articles - a member of the Australian project - enjoy it and learn something. If you feel that happy about not wanting to look - lack of project tags makes your additions to the Australian project just that bit more of other people having to follow your edits and cleanup.  cheers SatuSuro 04:54, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Also - when you are doing a living person - the WP Bio project tag is important for reasons which will be obvious when you look at a talk page of a living person that has been tagged correctly. SatuSuro 04:59, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

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AfD discussion
is excessive any only has a few participants, which can continue on the talk page. it is really distracting to others, what we want is more votes to gain consensus either way, no long winded arguments. please do not continually add back in. LibStar (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * they are not deleted but moved to a more appropriate space. AfDs are not for 20,000 character plus arguments. LibStar (talk) 00:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * sure it's based on arguments, but 99.99% of people are not going to read long winded arguments. we want more participants placing their !votes with arguments. LibStar (talk) 00:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * do you agree that most AfD participants are not interested in reading long winded arguments? LibStar (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * because you didn't like me moving excessive text is reason to go to ANI? LibStar (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen it done in other AfDs, and put a note in main article where this discussion is located. LibStar (talk) 00:29, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

discussion can continue on the talk page, the page is not frozen. so if i didn't use rollback would you have gone to ANI? LibStar (talk) 00:32, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Victorian by-elections
I've been compiling this massive Excel file for over a year, but never had the time to wikify it, so I was delighted to see you had done that part of it! For the sources, I was initially using a dump of the MP listing on re-member, which contained a "b/e" indicator where the MP was elected in a by-election, to work out the seats and the year they took place although the dates were usually non-specific so required further research to work out the date and the reason. That was time-consuming, but I stumbled upon A Handbook of Australian Government and Politics by Colin A. Hughes, which has the results of all Australian elections going back to the 1800s (I was using it to do a few more Victorian state election articles earlier than the 1970s), but it also has notes of which seats subsequent to a general election held a by-election, the dates and the winning party. Once I have the date, I check the old and new MP on re-member, and other details in the Victorian Government Gazette and Trove to double check the dates and so on. Sometimes if I have time and I can find final results on Trove I will do a quick article such as the Fitzroy 1925 one. --Canley (talk) 04:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It goes back to 1910, big gap, then 1864 to 1857. I've got 124 listed (including cancelled ones mentioned on AUSPOL talk page). As I said, I've got all the material to fill the gaps but have been only been working on it occasionally, however today's discussion may encourage me to finish of the list. --Canley (talk) 05:03, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

move victorian by-election stuff
Thanks for filling out the Victorian by-election article. The narration for the Warrnambool by-election of 1983 says Resigned in unsuccessful attempt to win Liberal preselection for Wannon at the 1983 federal election. Can you double-check this? I imagine it might instead have been in order to win Liberal preselection for the Wannon by-election, 1983: I doubt Smith would have chosen to contest pre-selection against an incumbent PM!

Also, when you update a member list in an article, e.g. at Electoral district of Caulfield, don't forget to update the results list too. Thanks. Miracle Pen (talk) 15:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

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 * List of Victorian state by-elections (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links pointing to John Cain, George Seitz and Carlo Carli


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 * added a link pointing to Liberal National Party

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Young
A while ago you changed my living politicians page saying William Young died in November. For the life of me I can't find it online, or the exact date. Any light to shed? His page still has him as living. Frickeg (talk) 03:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

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Electorates
Why are you removing the dates from these and replacing them with years? I've gone to a lot of trouble to be accurate. As for the red-link members, I am working first on the electorates and then coming back to so some basic stubs on the members. Kerry (talk) 04:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I went to quite a bit of trouble to disambiguate all the links pointing to the members. If I have missed some, happy to have them pointed out. However, there are other Qld electorate pages written by others that have links for members, which obviously I have not disambiguated. Kerry (talk) 07:18, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

That's what I am going to be doing, but since getting all the electorates and the members with pages is a pretty large job (months of work I anticipate), I am first filling in the electorates working forward by the dates of the redistributions and then sorting out the members alphabetically, which means I should end up with a page for every member and all the links off the electorate pages (and any others I can find) will point to them. I have a systematic plan, just evidently different to the order you would do things. Kerry (talk) 20:01, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

As I already said, I have been pointing the links at existing member articles where they exist. E.g. Edward Archer from Electorate of Normanby. If I have missed some of them, let me know but I have been looking for them. And I don't see what any of this has to do with dates. Exact dates are better than years because 1) any reader can trivially map an exact day to a year but not vice versa (i.e. info loss) 2) periods of representation do not occur along year boundaries 3) there are by-elections and there can be more than one in an electorate in the same year 4) there are multi-member electorates and it is difficult to see co-representation without exact dates 5) if any historian is trying to get more information on elections, candidates etc, then they need exact dates to provide a better entry point into resources like newspapers (scanning a year's worth of microfilm takes forever, an exact date makes it much easier) 6) I do not know why other people may have only provided years, it may be that the source material they had available only provided that information but I do have more accurate sources. Sure, some readers (and sadly some editors) might not think precise dates important (for events that happen on precise days as elections do) but I think any historian would think them so. I will try to go through and update the existing entries with precise dates but again I can only do so many things at one time and I think filling in the missing electorates may of which have been redlinked for a long time is the best place to start. 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, I see you're asking other people to complain about my work too. OK, fine, I'll leave the electorates alone. Go ahead and delete everything I've done. I didn't realise I had to be a member of some clique to edit Wikipedia. No wonder we have an editor retention problem. Kerry (talk) 19:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

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Sort of ...
Thank you! And likewise, may I say; I've been enjoying your work on Queensland and Victorian state MPs. Something of a ratbag leftie communist run for me at the moment, since their candidates are almost always serial and almost as often notable in some way. Frickeg (talk) 13:09, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Whoops, thanks! Frickeg (talk) 00:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Monaro 1999
It was due to the redistribution. Monaro's boundaries were shifted so they included an area from a neighboring district that had a Liberal candidate in 1995, so that's why numbers like this show up sometimes. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 02:20, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

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Auburn
Yes, I think that's right that there's 2 EFF candidates there, according to both Antony Green's reference paper and here. I've noticed that in the 1980's and earlier, some parties allowed 2 candidates to run for the same electorate. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 11:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Electorates
Thanks for your note about my work on the early Victorian Legislative Council electorates. I'm getting better at using Paint.NET now! (the "magic" feature is very handy to copy electorates). I've also found some good reference maps and material at State Library of Victoria and the county maps of Australia at the NLA e.g. Counties of Follett, Dundas etc. Diverman (talk) 11:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Ringwood
Hi, nice pick up that Electoral district of Ringwood (Victoria) was missing. I've now created it and fixed up/created links to it for the Electoral districts of Victoria, Norman Lacy and Kay Setches articles. Diverman (talk) 21:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hospitals in Perth template
Mandurah is not within Perth. Landgate maps show that the Perth's metropolitan region ends at the Rockingham/Mandurah LGA boundary, as does the WA planning commission. - Evad37 (talk) 02:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
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 * politics in July 2010 in an unsuccessful attempt to win the federal seat of Division of Canning Canning at the 2010 federal election, served as mayor of

N. Varvaris
I'm not sure about this change. Although the St George and Sutherland Shire Leader has "Nick Varvaris", the Sydney Morning Herald has "Nickolas Varvaris" and The Australian has "Nic Varvaris". Given that diversity, it would seem best to go with the full name. StAnselm (talk) 01:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Robert Brown
Hey, you're talking to the person that had Duncan Kerr listed as dead for a whole month. :) Frickeg (talk) 08:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

SA
I can't find the names of the candidates anywhere online for the 1993 election. Antony Green's archives only have their surnames, and Adam Carr's website doesn't have the 1993 election either. I'll have to find a book somewhere that has that info, which will probably be in late November when I have the extra time. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 14:45, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Ron Brown
You removed Ron Brown from my list of living MPs a while ago saying he'd been dead for a while. I've created a stub for him but can't find a death date (the Tasmanian Parliament appears to have forgotten to update his entry, as they do from time to time). Any ideas? Frickeg (talk) 07:50, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice job! And even that's only an approximate date. Presumably it was mentioned in Hansard at some point ... this may be one for the stacks. Frickeg (talk) 14:49, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've just finished a big chunk of uni work, and this (together with updating some off-wiki stuff) is my reward. Frickeg (talk) 06:13, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Mitcham 1970
Whoops, sorry about that. I've fixed it now. Thanks for letting me know. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 10:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

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November 2013
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 * Yokine]] as an independent at the 1996 state election . He returned to politics in 2007 as a councillor and later Deputy Mayor of the [[Town of

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Jack Mundey
Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you about this one. According to Antony Green's results page here, he said that Mackerras listed him as a Communist while Hughes listed him as Socialist Alternative. If there's no way the SA party existed back then, I guess it's safe to change it to Communist for now. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 05:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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Death of Jamie Gao
Hello. I see that you have removed notability and speedy delete tags from Death of Jamie Gao. I can understand why you removed the speedy tag, but why was the notability tag removed? In particular, 88.112.50.121 added the notability tag and said in the edit summary "a drug deal gone bad, how is this encyclopedic? Wikipedia is not news" I agree with his statement because neither the victim nor the murder were truly important enough for an encyclopedia. What are your opinions? Thanks Piguy101 (talk) 21:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The murder isn't notable for the victim, but for the alleged killers, and is receiving a bucketload more coverage than your average drug killing on that basis. Roger Rogerson is possibly the most notorious disgraced police officer in Australian history, someone who has repeatedly beat attempts to charge him with various violent crimes, and in recent years has made himself a celebrity out of those things. The other alleged killer is a well-known ex-whistleblower on police corruption. As a result, the public interest in this case - reflected in the amount of coverage all over every mainstream media source in the country - is far greater than your average drug killing and likely to stay that way. I also think, pre-empting the suggestion, that it wouldn't be a good fit for the Rogerson article, as a) having appropriate coverage of the trial would lead to undue weight on the Gao trial over everything else in Rogerson's story, and b) would disproportionately focus Wikipedia coverage on Rogerson over his also kinda notable co-accused, which feels like a BLP issue to me. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, the murder is controversial for its murderers. Perhaps the article should be edited to note that and to explain the notability of the murder. Piguy101 (talk) 19:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Townend et al.
Hi, and thank you! They're all candidates for parliament at some point or other (I have a ridiculously large word file that covers all federal candidates, NSW ones back to the 19th century, and the rest of the states at least some of the way back). For a while I was just doing Trove searches for each candidate for federal elections and seeing what I came up with. At the moment I'm working through the Australian Women's Register looking at female candidates; they have a lot of entries for non-notable people (for our purposes) but they also tend to suggest when someone is notable. They have a list of all the female candidates for NSW parliament that I'm working through at the moment; I believe they have something similar for Victoria (but not federally, frustratingly!). :) Frickeg (talk) 20:42, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Keating
FYI - The IP editor removed your comment entirely from the talkpage. Timeshift (talk) 03:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem; I get it, believe me. Hope your back is better soon! Frickeg (talk) 08:23, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

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June 2014
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 * 1880s. Wallace Post Office opened on 2 October 1885 and closed on 26 February 1993. Cite web  | last = Premier Postal History  | title = Post Office List | url = https://www.

Bucking Bull
Thanks for the note; all I know about Australian-specific food is vitameatavegimin (or whatever that paste stuff is that my friends in Frankston VIC talk about seeing in the stores), so I knew nothing about this company. As it stands right now, it's a great A7-speedy candidate, so after restoring it, I moved it to User:The Drover's Wife/Bucking Bull lest it be retagged and redeleted before you can improve it. Nyttend (talk) 04:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Categorisation of political parties
I notice your recent reversions of my edits, and subsequent re-categorisations, eg,. I'm not an expert on politics, so I don't know whether the parties concerned are state-specific or not; I was merely assuming that the sub-category (Qld) was correct, and therefore the supercategory (Au) was redundant per WP:SUBCAT's. I'm happy to accept your assertion that they are "not just in Queensland", but there are other similar redundantly-categorised articles, eg Palmer United Party (not necessarily just in Qld). I had planned to work my way through Category:Political parties in Australia and "fix" them all (I have way too much time on my hands ), but stopped when notified of your reverts. Clearly it would inefficient for me to remove the super-cat and then have you revert and instead remove the sub-cat, but I don't have the political knowledge to know which cat is appropriate to remove, nor the inclination or time to check. (I don't have that much time on my hands.) We should do something to fix the problem though - any suggestions? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

In case it wasn't blatantly obvious to you ...
... waiting ... Pdfpdf (talk) 14:20, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

(FYI: I'm NOT going to let you blatantly insult me in a public forum.)


 * Oh come on! Do I have to take this to ANI? Get off your arse and either "put up" or "shut up". In case it wasn't effing obvious to you, I'm NOT going to let this one "pass through to the keeper". Pdfpdf (talk) 15:22, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm off to bed. Given your recaltricance (What would we do without Paul Keating?) unless you give me a reason not to, when I return to WP I'll be off to ANI. (It is completely unacceptable to insult someone in a public forum.) Pdfpdf (talk) 15:42, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * How bizarre! I don't have any argument with you. But ... "I'm NOT going to let you blatantly insult me in a public forum." Pdfpdf (talk) 15:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! Are you on a crusade to prove you have no brains, that you reject WP:AGF and WP:Consensus, and that the only thing that is important to you is to make a WP:POINT? Pdfpdf (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * P.S. Good night. There's nothing further you can do that can't be undone in the morning. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm: ... STILL waiting for your apology and withdrawal ... (As I said, "I'm NOT going to ... ") Pdfpdf (talk) 13:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're still posting on my talk page. You were re-adding blatant original research to an article, I asked you not to, and then after someone else also did you apparently decided to stop, which is great. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * If you're "not sure" why I'm still waiting, then do your homework. This has NOTHING to do with WP:OR, it is about you leaving unsupported insults in public fora. As I've said what seems like a dozen times, (but isn't), "put up", or withdraw, or I'm off to ANI. Why do I need to constantly repeat myself to you? (And no, that is NOT a rhetorical question.) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * P.S. FYI: At some stage I will lose patience with you, I will withdraw my assumptions of good faith, and I WILL go to ANI. I have given you NUMEROUS opportunities to avoid this - if I end up at ANI, it will be as a result of YOUR choice. Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I have literally no idea what you're talking about. I have no desire to get into an argument with you though. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, last time I WP:AGF it advanced the situation, so I will do so again.
 * But before I start, like I did then, I'll emphasise that I'm encouraged by your response.
 * However, I am somewhat confused by your statement: I have no desire to get into an argument with you though. If that is indeed the case, then why (at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics) did you make the statement/comment:

Disappointing, but is not the first time Pdfpdf has refused to heed other editors and Wikipedia policies generally. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * To which, by the way, I IMMEDIATELY responded:
 * b) Drover's wife: Your response is false. What is your evidence for that extremely offensive comment? Either provide evidence immediately, or withdraw and apologise.

I hope all is now clear to you. If not, please don't hesitate to ask for further clarification.Pdfpdf (talk) 14:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Look, you're spoiling for a fight, and you're not going to find one here. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * No. You are quite wrong. YOU made the initial unjustified, unsupported accusation. I'm looking for an apology and withdrawal. I have given you what feels like infinite opportunities. Perhaps I should have gone straight to ANI?
 * This is your VERY last chance. I have run out of both patience AND goodwill. I unambiguously emphasise THIS IS YOUR CHOICE! Pdfpdf (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Given that you have provided NO response, I WILL, at my convenience, complain about your behavior at ANI, and as etiquette requires, I will post something here to inform you.


 * However, your latest vindictive stupidity at AFD is HIGHLY ENTERTAINING. You don't even have a sore toe to stand on, so it will go down in flames. The only thing of interest to me is if you avoid a block for your unfounded vindictive personal attack.
 * If YOU wish, we can productively improve Wikipedia. On the other hand, if YOU wish you can attack me; however, you will NOT "WIN" (if that is your aim.) You see, I don't care what happens to me - if I'm blocked, I'm blocked. C'est la vie. But, there is NO way in the world I'm going to allow you to get away with bad behaviour.
 * So, once again, YOU have a choice. Maybe this time you should use your brains and think it through? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * BTW: I expect you have yet to realise that I don't have a life, and I derive great entertainment from making it blatently obvious just how stupid the behaviour of some editors is. Yes, it's sad, isn't it. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

--
If making sure that an article is baffling and irrelevant to people who aren't Australian politics nerds is what turns you on, then carry on, I hope it brings you mindblowing pleasure. 190.44.133.67 (talk) 06:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Bellevue
In my office/if you saw my office/donte expect any easy answer to that. imho Greenmount Road board history is close to irrelevent in the Bellevue article. satusuro 10:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * apart from some very impatient people who dont understand how wikipedia works, the average editor at some time or other gets to be told there is no deadline - there is even an essay. Real life beckons. Good night. for the moment. satusuro 11:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * the Bellevue article - I started it, but I dont WP:OWN the article - do what you like - as to the issue of the verifiability, take care... I had said There is no deadline - when I happen to be in a libary where another copy will be, I will at my leasure check the details, I do have a copy, and I know the book very well, but you seem to be on a different time scale. Try WP:AGF and take care when questioning others edits, hmmm. take it easy. satusuro 09:58, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Last reply - I have a messy office I cannot find the book, I know it (having read it 4x ion the last 20 years), and I do not wish to converse any further with you - your impatience is annoying and you dont seem to get the message. Please. satusuro 10:54, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Activists
Thanks! They're great fun too, although it takes forever since I just go through and Google every single candidate until I find notable ones that have enough info to write on (the other clearly notable people with nothing worthwhile online get filed in the "When I Have a Week to Spare at a Big Library" folder). My master document is approaching 1,000 pages at 8 point with 42cm-high pages, and apart from NSW and Tasmania only includes the states back to the 1990s. Frickeg (talk) 08:34, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I fail at both typing and proofreading today apparently. Thanks for cleaning up after me! Frickeg (talk) 11:11, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Gleeson was interesing - although, despite a bit of googling, I couldn't find anything (or nothing that counts as reliable for our purposes - just our member list, actually!) that actually mentioned her cause of death; Batchelor, in his maiden speech, seemed to be almost deliberately dancing around it, although it's probably only because that's what I was looking for. (I was also prompted to go looking for the by-election results, only to find they're not online - another one for the library list.) Frickeg (talk) 11:59, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

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Sorry, but I'm confused
On Articles for deletion/List of Nationally Significant 20th-Century Architecture in South Australia, you said a number of things (with which I do NOT disagree) leading up to the comment:
 * If this were moved to List of heritage listed buildings in Adelaide, I'd not only be not questioning its encyclopedicness, I'd be helping write the damn thing.

To me, that sounds like there is a basis for "a way forward". Or did I mis-understand? (Yes, I'm a bit confused by all this ... ) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:49, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Even more confused ...
Given that, in general, we both want to achieve progress, and that neither of us have a huge vested interest in "being right" over "achieving progress", I don't really understand why we have arrived at a situation where we are in conflict with each other ... Pdfpdf (talk) 13:48, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Whoa! Changing the name to 'List of heritage listed buildings in Adelaide' is unwise, as many of the entries may NOT actually be heritage listed! See my comments on the Afd page. Bahudhara (talk) 16:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh dear. What can I say? I want to amicably resolve this, but I'm afraid he's right. (Background: I hate the original name, but it was the least bad / most accurate we came up with after lengthy discussion.) Your new name is "very nice", but I'm afraid it's not an accurate description of the contents of the list ... Pdfpdf (talk) 16:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

(Metaphorically "Out to lunch")
Apologies for lack of response, but I'm afraid "life" is getting in the way of WP at the moment. This posting is to say: "I don't disagree with you". And, "I'm not ignoring you" - I'm just a bit "otherwise occupied" at the moment. Apologies. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:35, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your thanks!
I just hope it achieves the desired outcome. Kerry (talk)

Doug Lehmann
Please see User talk:Bbb23. GiantSnowman 12:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

inneresting
I've got a large interest in railway history and had worked very close to some of these places and never heard of them - you still in Perth or elsewhere? - curious about what you hadnt heard of... (I am connected with heritage railway thingoes in Perth, and if youre interested I could fill you in a number of topics if you wanted...) satusuro 11:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I have used the midland line former stations, would prefer email conversation on more detailed info re where I used to live and work etc - when ever you are ready - drop me a line - even better - whats the chance of getting to one of the perth meetups! satusuro 13:53, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

South Australian Maritime Museum
Your recent removal of material from the Port Adelaide article and pasting it willy-nilly into the South Australian Maritime Museum article isn't particularly helpful, given your lack of knowledge about local politics. The City of Adelaide clipper ship is being handled by an entirely different, private group to the Maritime Museum, in fact they are at loggerheads with the State Government over issues of the long-term future site for the clipper, funding, etc. I'll try to fix this up later, I don't have time just at the moment. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

re Template:Australian political parties
Hi Drover, apologies for not replying earlier. I have just added other registered parties as you suggested and I have also added major defunct parties and rolled out this across the articles as well. Please review and add or remove any party you think should or should not be included. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 14:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, Ian! I noticed this template appear and wondered if it was intended only for parties that participated in federal elections or whether it can include parties that operated at state level? The specific party I am thinking of is the Queensland Labor Party but there are probably others. Or should we have separate templates for each of the states or ...? Kerry (talk) 03:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail!
Nikkimaria (talk) 13:45, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Adam Marshall
I thought we said the expanded sentencing remarks could go in? The issue is in the last few days its been in the headlines again. Mounting pressure on him to resign. I think we can fairly call it a continuing scandal? The opposition are saying the premier and deputy premier need to make further disclosures about the matter.

Ghostofthelandscape (talk) 04:13, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Grateful
Before too much time passes, I would like to thank you sincerely for getting this done. Deletions aren't my favorite thing, but that was a very important one to me. SteveStrummer (talk) 01:27, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Your username
Hey, I noticed your username. I doubt I have read a short story with the same name. Is your username has any relation with that story??  Jim Car ter  17:12, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. I'm happy that people still love reading stories and respect writes, when the trend of reading book are in the line towards extinction. :) Happy editing!!  Jim Carter (from public cyber)  08:37, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Vatskalis
Do you know the date of his resignation? Your edit to the template prompted me to start going around and fixing everything up, but all I can find in the media is that he was intending to resign after the end of the August sittings, and I can't find the actual date. Frickeg (talk) 07:23, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Huh, there you go. Thanks! Frickeg (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Vern Hughes
Hi, I was wondering if you might know where to find some extra sources on Hughes. An editor has prodded the article and I deprodded it since I recall him being everywhere around the mid-2000s, but online sources are pretty scarce. I'm going to try and check some hard copy ones later in the week, but would you have any other suggestions? Frickeg (talk) 03:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks heaps. Frickeg (talk) 04:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Such
"Dr Such’s family this evening issued a statement to inform that their beloved husband and father had died at the Daw House Hospice earlier on Saturday." - shouldn't it be 11 not 10 October? Timeshift (talk) 16:28, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

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Cite VICNAMES template
Hi there. The Victorian Government has introduced a new site for listing all geological features making Cite VICNAMES redundant. The new site, called LASSI is located here. There are two key issues: Many thanks. Rangasyd (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) How can the template be amended to now gather the information from LASSI?
 * 2) How do you suggest we go about amending all articles currently using the Cite VICNAMES template, assuming that a new template can be implemented?
 * Thanks for your feedback. I've moved the discussion to Template talk:Cite VICNAMES. Rangasyd (talk) 09:09, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Jacqui Lambie's possible Aboriginality
I'd be interested in your thoughts on that matter on the article's Talk page please. HiLo48 (talk) 02:06, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Bridges
thanks for the encouragement, I did a study of historic bridges throughout Victoria, and so would like to see some of the less known ones raised in prominence. I am particularly looking for other secondary sources (not my own study) so if you have any suggestions, would love to hear about them.Garyvines (talk) 02:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

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Could you refrain from making uncivil remarks in edit summaries?
Please assume good faith, and don't insult people for "peeing on newbies just because they can". You could've just declined based on a "clear claim to notability", adding that insulting remark is unjustified and is uncivil. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 13:24, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Three incivil remarks towards me. Your recent edit summary on Vanessa Barrs is disrespectful towards me. I tagged it when it did not have many sources. Now it does. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 13:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Accusations of bad behavior
I take issue with your accusation that placing a notability tag on an article is an "impeccably stupid way of treating new editors". The editors weren't given any warnings. The articles were not nominated for deletion. They were just tagged with a template that indicates that some improvement might be in order. I am sensitive to the issue of new editor recruitment, and of being too bitey, especially in underserved areas (although I don't know that I count Australia as an underserved area of Wikipedia, but then I'm not Australian so I might not have the correct perspective). I tagged the article to indicate that the question was open. (The tag does read "This article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines".) And I did ask about the issue at, what I believe was the proper venue. So, a little less umbrage and a little more helpfulness might go a long way toward building the collaborative project we're all striving for here. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at User talk:Chess. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. Just to make it clear, I will report you to AIV the next time you make a personal attack. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 15:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Two comments. Firstly, The Drover's Wife, routinely accusing other editors of stupidity is anything but conductive to a collaborative editing environment. I rather doubt that's the tone you'd use towards colleagues in "real life", would you? Wikipedia has guidelines on civility and personal attacks, and it's rather obvious you're violating them. Secondly, Chess, AIV would not be the appropriate venue for a report. See WP:NOT VANDALISM. You already made a report at WP:ANI. Huon (talk) 19:56, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thanks for all your help with the Queensland Heritage Register articles.

Kerry (talk) 12:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC) 

Feleppa
I know, I found just the same. There were genealogy sites and stuff, but nothing usable on the death date - and as you say, nothing in Hansard, which is just bizarre. I suppose it's possible that it's a different Feleppa who died in 2011. SA is by far the worst in this area (although WA's pretty bad once you go back a bit), which is why I've put off doing any of the SA MPs for so long. I mean, I guess a stub's better than nothing, but I hate not having any useful information to put in an article. I suspect with a bit of research there could be quite a good section on poker machines in his article, but that would be literally the entire thing since we have practically no basic biographical information. Frickeg (talk) 08:56, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

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 * I have solved the immortelle disambiguation problem by creating Immortelle (cemetery). It was an interesting example of something that was so commonplace at the time that nobody felt the need to ever write down what an immortelle actually was. Not an easy thing to find citations for as it turned out. Kerry (talk) 05:50, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for adding a reference to my article on Nuatali Nelmes. GilesMartin1945 (talk) 01:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Hollins
Fair enough on that point, but he was also a big social creditor, which might be right-wing but isn't really "conservative". Frickeg (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

City councillors
My pleasure. I've long been aware that the current wording of WP:POLOUTCOMES has a very North American bias to it that doesn't always work for other countries — the guideline for mayors even causes problems in the UK — but as a North American myself I don't really have enough background knowledge of how municipal politics works other places to personally initiate a discussion about how to change it. I'd be happy to try to provide whatever assistance I'm able to, though. Bearcat (talk) 04:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting what you said about Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Hobart. Bearcat's comment brought to mind the David Nolte AfD from a few years ago. Of course since his council term was pre-internet (or pre-lots of internet) there would be less online. I do note, however, that WP:POLOUTCOMES doesn't actually help for Australian purposes, since it specifies that the council must be "city-wide", and only Hobart would qualify (and Hobart doesn't even qualify as a world city, let alone in a high enough class). Generally I suspect we are evolving very slowly to a point where the amount of coverage typical for a Sydney or Melbourne city councillor is sufficient to pass WP:GNG anyway these days.
 * Oh, keep in mind that Wikipedia sourcing doesn't actually have to exist online. We are allowed to source stuff to books, print-only editions of newspapers or magazines, and other offline sources. We certainly like to provide a convenience link to a web-accessible version of the content whenever possible, but that's by no means a requirement — if you've got access to a database or a microfilm archive of older content, you are allowed to use that for sourcing. So GNG isn't something you need to just let the situation evolve toward — if you've got a way to dig out older print coverage, then by all means bring it on. Bearcat (talk) 06:44, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for tagging a page
I'm sorry, I didn't notice the licensing template. I'll be more careful. Thanks for pointing it out.--Jonathanarpith (talk) 12:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Coren Bot
Hi, Coren's been away for a few weeks, but having observed his bot in action for a while, it doesn't understand context, only content, which is why it flags articles as possible copyvios even though they are CC licensed. A couple of things to note: first, no article is ever deleted or even proposed for deletion based solely on the bot. A human always evaluates the reports. (The bot automatically opens a case at WP:SCV). Second, if there's no copyright issue, then the bot's notice even says to go ahead and remove the tag. As before, a human will come by and evaluate the bot's report. I've closed more reports as "false positive" than I care to count! Crow  Caw 01:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding the backup bot, it archives based on message dates, so the messages you just restored will again be archived when the bot runs (4-6 times a day), placing another copy of them in the archives. As for "it needs to be turned off", that's for Coren to decide, but if you keep undoing the bot's archiving (and thus filling up his archives with multiple copies of the same messages), that could be seen as disruptive, so please don't do that. Crow  Caw  01:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

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Vic 2014
The ABC has Richmond still in doubt. While I agree that a Maltzahn win would take a lot at this stage, that's the source we've generally gone with. Maybe invisible Wynne until tomorrow (when I imagine it will be called)? Frickeg (talk) 12:55, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd call that a slip; he was looking at just the primary votes (from which I still find it weird that the Greens would even be close, but that's what the figures are saying). I remember he also said Martin Dixon had been "defeated". :) Frickeg (talk) 12:58, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I remember at the start of the night the computer saying a 16% swing, while the primaries had a 10% primary vote swing against the Greens. Something went wrong there somewhere. I'm just a little concerned that the ABC is still predicting only a 0.2% lead - but I suppose it will all become moot tomorrow anyway when predictive software is turned off. Frickeg (talk) 13:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * *shrug* Frickeg (talk) 13:09, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Err ... Frickeg (talk) 13:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I must say the ABC as a whole hasn't had a great night. I've had constant problems with the site too, and discrepancies between figures all night. I'm also wondering about that huge pre-poll vote - Antony was sounding very confident calling everything above 0.5% margin, but there's practically half of some of these electorates uncounted. Frickeg (talk) 14:01, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there another politician called Tim Richardson? Frickeg (talk) 14:27, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Does it? I couldn't find one. (Although it's very late, and I may be missing something obvious.) Frickeg (talk) 14:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Oops. It was OpenCongress. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 14:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

No problem - I did the same! At least it was a broadly happy result for the first time in a long time (SA only kind of counts), although the Labor/Greens stuff had me pulling my hair out as usual. So much stupid on both sides! Frickeg (talk) 00:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I know - things went really quite badly against the Greens later in the night. Early on the optimists among them could dream of 3-4 seats! I suspect Richmond at least was something glitchy going on, or possibly the ABC computer just hasn't worked out Labor-Greens contests yet. (It also took them half the night to even register Shepparton, but then that was a total surprise. Still, since they're happening more often, they have to make some changes to make switching to unexpected candidates for 2PP easier.) I believe that pre-polls favoured the Greens last time, which may account for Melbourne. I think the ABC has predictive software off, so it's now showing a raw count. Frickeg (talk) 00:22, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm thinking we may have collectively jumped the gun on a few calls ... I was wondering about that huge pre-poll, but everyone on the night was so certain about most of these seats not being in doubt. On the other hand, I think it might have been wiser for me to wait at least a week on the LC; I'm now seeing on Poll Bludger that Samantha Dunn is not entirely solid in East Metro, and that there is still a chance the Shooters seat in North Vic will go to the Greens (!) or the Sex Party (!!). And also that Animal Justice is in with a shot in South East Metro. This will be a fascinating upper house. The electoral system is completely stupid, but I can't deny there will be a tiny part of me that will miss seeing these total weirdos crop up in the various Legislative Councils.

But on those calls ... I'm wondering if we should bother rolling them back now, or just sit back and wait. It's not like anyone but the two of us has even looked at those pages yet anyway. :) Frickeg (talk) 07:21, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Heh, chamber switches are very easy to miss. I also missed Steve Herbert and Mary Wooldridge when I was doing the infobox/succession boxes. Frickeg (talk) 11:44, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Redistributions
Yes some are tricky. Dinner Plain, Victoria could be in Benambra, Ovens Valley or Gippsland East, but guessing Benambra.--Grahame (talk) 14:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, well I was wrong. very useful.--Grahame (talk) 14:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

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 * Members of the Victorian Legislative Council, 2014–2018
 * added a link pointing to Democratic Labor Party

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Victorian results
For results from 1992-2010, I'm using the election papers by Antony Green on the ABC website here: http://www.abc.net.au/elections/archive/. For 1985 and 1988, I'm using copies of the state election books published by the electoral office at the time. And for everything before that, I'm using Colin Hughes' books that cover all results from 1890-1982. Also, I've been looking at archives of The Age on Google newspapers, and they usually have some useful information around the dates that the elections took place. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 03:28, 5 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I usually put the references up in the first results table on the results pages. There's one here, here, and here on the Albert Park result table that covers the references for Hughes's books, and this page covers the reference for the 1985 election, again in the Albert Park table. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 03:46, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Victorian public service
Thank you for your kind words! I will take a look, but I will admit I am a bit out of my depth in the Victorian public service subject area. Will be sure to drop by to your Talk page if something comes up to mull over! Clare. (talk) 01:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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 * Electoral district of Bellarine
 * added a link pointing to Queenscliff


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 * added a link pointing to Carlo Carli

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A little rude
Your edit at irked me a little, with that "raise eyebrow" thing. I understand why, and I was just too lazy to read the whole thing (I am not that interested in politics). Please be more polite next time, and prevent personal attacks (I won't start one). Thanks, DEW.   Adrenaline  ( Nahnah4 ) 07:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. BT80 (talk) 13:27, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Abuse of power reported to Administrators
I have contacted the Administrators to your Edit Warring with me by using a BOT Called TW, I am only starting out on Wikipedia, and you are treating me like I am a deliberately vandalising Wikipedia (I am only edit tin pages that do need attention ). Do NOT threaten me with being banned as you are the only one here who is abusing your power by threatening people and using a BOT to edit war with them BT80 (talk) 05:40, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

I am NOT deliberately vandalizing Wikipedia
I am marking articles that need work.

Ban me, see if I care. It will just show your abuse of power.

It is amazing how people will always "trash talk" people on the internet, when they know they will never have to face the person in real life.

The only "advise" I want / need from you is ZERO
You and ALL of your Cronies are making me hate Wikipedia.

Thanks for NOT helping out the NEW guy here !!! BT80 (talk) 14:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

YOU are VANDALIZING Wikipedia by NOT letting people bring pages to the attention of people who know the workings of editing using Wikipedia.
Maybe you should be considerate of learners who do NOT know the ins & outs of editing on Wikipedia. BT80 (talk) 14:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

I want my account deleted
Everyone seems to want me to dance around like a puppet. That is NOT how I roll. None of what you have said is true. I want you or one of your minions to permanently delete my Wikipedia account.

BT80 (talk) 03:58, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Re Unions
Thanks for your feedback on my recent work on defunct Australian trade unions. I agree that a number of these pages include material from the Australian Trade Union Archive (ATUA) which is probably in danger of breaching copyright. However these are pages which I have only recently split off from the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union page, and haven't yet been able to properly edit and improve. The ATUA material was all originally in the AMWU article, where a previous editor had basically lifted all the available material from the ATUA on the AMWU's industrial predecessors. In time I hope to be able to add other sources and improve these new articles, as I have with a number of other articles on defunct Australian trade unions such as the Amalgamated Engineering Union (Australia), Federated Ironworkers' Association and Federated Ship Painters and Dockers Union. Thanks again, Warrenjs1 (talk) 08:05, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Please tell me how to delete my account permanently then.
Please tell me how to delete my account permanently then. BT80 (talk) 04:55, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 31
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Redlinks in navboxes
Hi there, my apologies for delinking those names. For some (bizarre) reason I had it in my head redlinks were a no-no. I promise it won't happen again and hope you're not too angry at me. :) Rocketrod1960 (talk) 07:27, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Draft:Betoota Advocate Newspaper
Hello The Drover's Wife. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Draft:Betoota Advocate Newspaper, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: This is a draft, previous deleition disussions were on a full article, so we should assume this is a work in progress to address the issues raised in the AfD. Thank you. Ged UK  14:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk:General Post Office, Adelaide
This building is listed on the CC-by-SA (Wikipedia-compatible)-licensed Commonwealth Heritage List, and so there's good article text right there if somebody wants to copy it over with the appropriate attribution. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 15:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! What's the URL of that page, please? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:50, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. Happy New Year! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * BTW & FYI: I am steadily becoming an even grumpier old man (but probably more considerate) than your previous experiences may have indicated. I hereby give you my official permission to give me "reality checks" when you feel my grumpiness becomes excessive. Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:49, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * (Context? Edit history (and comments) on General Post Office, Adelaide)

Country railway stations
No problems, it did seem a bit out of place to have articles for long closed, relatively minor country halts and not for stations in major centres like Dubbo, Griffith, Moree and Tamworth. Mo7838 (talk) 06:31, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, and a request
Dear DW: Please accept my gratitude for all the good work you did cleaning up all the loose ends I left after my Legislative Council orgy. I'm now back looking at some interesting journalists and little newspapers of South Australia. One biog. that in the old days I would have titled Joseph Colin Francis Johnson I reckon should be Frank Johnson (politician) rather than Joseph Johnson (Australian politician). Assuming you agree, would you mind doing the business? Doug butler (talk) 22:47, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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 * Frederick Samuel Wallis
 * added a link pointing to Daily Herald


 * National Party (South Australia)
 * added a link pointing to Daily Herald

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ACT
Pfft, it's only the ACT (said the ACT voter). Good thing that countback happened (although we also managed to miss it with the Seselja countback ...). There are so many pages that need updating when members change nowadays - I don't know how the Americans manage with 50 state legislatures (well ... with more editors, obviously, but still). Frickeg (talk) 12:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I always think it's the post-election stuff that's hardest - after the flurry of election night, it's those Legislative Council counts that still need to be finished two weeks later. And then, of course, the upper house vacancies, which are so easy to miss completely. I remember browsing about for some reason and seeing a name I didn't recognise on the SA Parliament website, only to discover that Bob Sneath had resigned months previously and none of us had noticed! Frickeg (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Qld
What do you think about Gaven? I had it down as an LNP hold/gain/whatever, but do you remember if we ever had an LNP/ALP count? Looking at the raw numbers it seems theoretically possible that the LNP could be chased down on Greens and Douglas preferences, depending on how strongly the Douglas numbers flow. (Why on earth the ECQ thought an ALP/Douglas count was a good idea I have no clue.) Either way I'm thinking maybe we should bring it back in doubt, since we don't have an actual LNP/ALP count to go off. Frickeg (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point. I have pulled Gaven back to "in doubt", and also Redlands, which is also now appearing on the ABC's list. I don't see anyone seriously talking about Ferny Grove and Mount Ommaney at this point, but I think we can give it another day or two. Frickeg (talk) 05:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think Gaven was always a bit of a long shot, but better safe than sorry I guess. Most people do seem to be considering Mount Ommaney and Mansfield as out of it (probably by the end of today, at least for Mt O), and Ferny Grove I think is fairly settled too. Whitsunday, though, seems to be staying close - it looks like it'll be joining Maryborough for the long haul.


 * You're absolutely right about the substandard stuff that gets left behind after an election. It would be great to do a run-through - I think I'll have a bit of time later in the week or on the weekend. The only question is how wide to cast the net? I would think this kind of thing would apply back to around 2007 when we really got the state-level articles going, although there are probably some federal instances too. Maybe and a few others might be interested as well? I suppose it'll mostly be trawling through local papers, etc., but hopefully it won't be too onerous. Frickeg (talk) 22:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there a particular state you want to start on? I might start with NSW when I get the chance. (We should probably include electorates in this too - I know a couple of them are pretty out of date.) Frickeg (talk) 23:26, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

No sooner do we take Gaven off the in-doubt than it turns out it really is - even more than we thought. Ugh. I hope we don't have to delete Sid Cramp. (Well. I mean, I hope we do. But it'd be kind of embarrassing.) In much worse news, Poll Bludger now says Hanson a possibility in Lockyer. Frickeg (talk) 07:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries; goodness knows I wouldn't have put it past Anderson. One would assume this total chaos means Delia Lawrie is fairly safe (stable, united, etc.), and that she will need to complete the mammoth task of not soiling herself in public in order to win the next election. Frickeg (talk) 11:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of The Betoota Advocate
Please see Talk:The_Betoota_Advocate.  JT dale Talk ~ 15:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

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DYK for Clive Shields
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Invitation
Have you heard of the Kaffeeklatsch? It is a test area for women to hear and support each other. The idea came about as a result of a [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice? discussion] at meta regarding my IdeaLab proposal (yet open) for WikiProject Women.

Now that the klatsch has survived an MfD and WMF legal has said that it does not violate the non discrimination policy, I am looking for women editors who might like to join.

Although I have started a couple of discussions, they are not urgent. For now, the "Please introduce yourself" discussion is more important! I want to take it slow at first and build a small group before trying to address heavy topics or come up with big goals. For now, the klatsch is there as a sort of refuge. I hope you will consider joining, and invite other women editors, too, if you wish. Lightbreather (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

"inappropriate tag"
here. Could you explain why?

As I understand it, the article itself makes clear that the newspaper was published once, in 1916, and hasn't been since. The citations are (in order), automatically generated and noting that a copy is held, the literal copy of the newspaper, and not mentioning the Advocate at all. So...it's notability isn't confirmed. Where's the inappropriateness? Ironholds (talk) 04:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

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Factions
You're obviously very impressed with the significance of that content - odd how you've not managed to find more and better sources, since it's clearly of such surpassing importance. Guy (Help!) 22:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Allegation of Sock Puppet - CBD & South East Light Rail Project & other concerns raised
Hi Drover's Wife. I have not created a second (or any additional accounts).

In response to your citing use of original work - I have added citations from various news articles which is what your entry on the talk page asked for. I hope this will allay your concerns.

Please feel free to use my talk page to ask/resolve any issues you have rather than wholesale deletion which is against WP's principals. If you think the phrasing is not neutral then please suggest what amendment you think is necessary. On the "Call for Papers" I cannot see any aspect that is not succinct, balanced or accurate. Can you please outline exactly what your concern is?

The Govt provided glossy brochures to the public. One was titled "Summary of Business Case" yet they then claim that there is not material in existence to substantiate any figure quoted in the Business Case Summary. That includes the existence of an original Business Case that the Summary is based on.

Numerous groups have complained about the lack of transparency and I could have cited over 50 recent articles from The Telegraph, The SMH, Southern Courier, Wentworth Courier, Central Courier, to name just a few. I decided to cite the RCC resolution (and their media release) as well as a news article about the resolution from another source to demonstrate the wide cross-section of media sources reporting the issues.

I did this to demonstrate that it is not a case of one media outlet having an axe to grind.

I will shortly be adding a section about the State Auditor General's Dec 2014 report into shortcomings with TfNSW's approach to infrastructure projects namely that TfNSW makes unsubstantiated claims, does not seek independent verification of crucial underlying assumptions and is not acting in a transparent way. The State Auditor General has announced an investigation into the CBD & South East Light Rail project. RegardsA M R Sydney (talk) 21:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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DLP categories
I don't really mind too much; I was trying to avoid disambiguators as far as possible and didn't really think many casual readers would be interested in the categories, but don't really have objections either way. On another note, though - are our two separate DLP articles really correct? If we asked the DLP, they would tell us that they're the same party ... and the AEC certainly agrees. This distinction goes way, way back, but I wonder if a merger wouldn't be in order. Frickeg (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The DLP avoided de-registration in the 2006 purge by successfully claiming prior representation in parliament . This parliamentary report also shows pretty clearly that the original dissolution (at least in Victoria) was dodgy to say the least, and adds that three quarters of the state executive continued the party regardless. Given there was no gap in contesting elections (and a lot of continuity in candidates too), I'd say it's at least worth a discussion. Frickeg (talk) 02:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Might be worth a look; I may do some reading and see what the dedicated books on the DLP say. Similarly, Australian Labor Party (Anti-Communist) is kind of an oddity since it was just an earlier name of the DLP - that can probably be merged into the DLP and split articles. Frickeg (talk) 02:59, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

NSW 2015
What do you reckon our in-doubt seats are at the end of the night? The ABC has only Gosford, but if we were being excessively cautious I would think Lismore, Wollongong, Upper Hunter and Strathfield are maybe not hammered down? Frickeg (talk) 11:37, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Scratch Upper Hunter. Frickeg (talk) 11:38, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been doing the candidates page, and I think there's still some doubt in The Entrance too. So I've got Gosford, Lismore, Strathfield, The Entrance and Wollongong. Frickeg (talk) 11:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Kevin Bonham was very uncertain about Lismore earlier in the night (we don't know how the preferences will behave), but I think most people have given it away. I'm not too fussed either way; I personally can't see the Nationals winning it, but then I didn't think the Greens would go as close as they did in Melbourne in Victoria, so who knows. Frickeg (talk) 12:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, so, I think I need to inscribe "LISMORE" in big bold letters somewhere next time there's an election, to remind me to always err on the side of caution. Frickeg (talk) 03:06, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * We had an article on Terry Boylan of the 2009 Frome by-election briefly, I remember. But yes. Unless we pull it all back and don't do anything until counting is finished (a terrible idea), then we'll always have these odd ones, I suspect. (The ABC computer is still calling things way too early, I think; I hope they find a way to indicate levels of doubt more easily.) Frickeg (talk) 04:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Qld ALP pollies
I notice you are replacing Category:Australian Labor Party politicians with Category:Australian Labor Party members of the Parliament of Queensland. Do you want me to do this systematically for all Category:Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly and Category:Members of the Queensland Legislative Council using AutoWikiBrowser? I think it should be relatively straightforward with AWB. Kerry (talk) 05:41, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

What's in a name?!
I'd welcome your thoughts on an article title. Coming up next on the Queensland Heritage Register is the delighfully-named Public Reserve incorporating the Privy Pit and Site of Convict Barracks and Store. That's a bit of a mouthful for a Wikipedia article title. I was thinking of calling it Dunwich Convict Site (it's at Dunwich) or maybe Dunwich Convict Archeological Site. I think Dunwich Privy Pit lacks a certain charm but I guess it's a contender. Open to ideas? Kerry (talk) 06:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Candidates
Yes! Thanks for reminding me. I'll get on the candidates categories.

I don't know if we clarified regarding the mayors thing - my reading, and intention in proposing, was always that it would only include those not elected to higher office. We should probably specify that in the category itself. Frickeg (talk) 07:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

TWL HighBeam check-in
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"Ranting about the Greens"
Your repeated claims at Talk:Next_Australian_federal_election that I keep "ranting about the Greens" is getting tiresome. I have not made any deprecatory comments about either Greens policies, or Greens politicians. Please stop. --Surturz (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Missing MPs
For some reason WA often does this kind of thing under the radar (I remember years ago discovering the appointments of Carolyn Burton and Shelley Eaton months after the event). Good thing you caught it fairly early! SA is often very quiet about it too. At least with WA we can immediately tell who the replacement will be (the only non-Hare-Clark state that does this, I think?).

Unless I'm missing it the AEC doesn't seem to actually announce deregistrations so much as just quietly take them off the register (they do the "notice" thing, but then when they actually decide they don't seem to announce it unless I'm missing something). I'm actually impressed the media at least picked up on the Democrats' and DLP's deregistration. Both momentous occasions to be sure. (On another note I noticed one party, The 23 Million, was deregistered without ever contesting an election. This is the kind of thing I was talking about with the Australian Progressives AfD, but I understand they're very much the exception to the rule.) Frickeg (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 2
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Not sure
Where you get your WP:BOLD style from, but if you had read the specific summaries from the move from spur to branch - the predominant name used by the w.a.g.r. and the newspaper articles about the line - rarely called it the Belmont railway line, in most cases the belmont branch was the usage in most public available records... so I am somewhat mystified by your move. User:JarrahTree 02:55, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Your response unfortunateley verges on personal attack (the usage of the word 'fight' does not help), I must say I am disapointed by that, as I would have hoped that there could have been a discusssion, rather than an adverserial approach.  I am not sure what bothers you about a possible resolution to variation in railway wording in the Australian project...

I thought I had offered an explanation of the difference, and you suggest a convention that I ignore? Please lead me to the location of the establishment of the convention, and I will gladly change my edits to the convention if it can be established.

I would have thought that a suitable convention is guided by the usage that the railway operators usually named them by, surely that is reasonable assumption? Rather than continue here - maybe this should be at either the Trains and Australian noticeboards, and I you dont want to join in there, I will gladly bring the subject up, as it clearly has bothered you, the way you left your message. cheers User:JarrahTree

SA candidates pages
Nice job with the SA candidates page. One question - why are the successes in bold and the sitting MPs asterisked? In the past it's always been the reverse. Frickeg (talk) 10:22, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I confess I'm a little confused about why bolding makes more sense than asterisking? The page at the moment confuses the hell out of me, because our project-wide standard is so entrenched. I don't think I can agree with making an exception for this single page. We are already giving the winners plenty of prominence with the shading.


 * For me, the logic behind bolding incumbents has always been fairly clear. The candidates pages are essentially pre-election in mindset. The fact that we indicate winners at all is a fairly recent change, and while I think it's an improvement, to my mind it's incidental to the primary purpose of the page, which is about who ran, not who won. In that sense those who ran as incumbent MPs (even in realignments, and even when they might have switched seats) should definitely be given more prominence than those who were not running with incumbency behind them. If we were to start bolding people in results pages, the argument would be different. But I think the candidates pages should really emphasise the pre-election situation over the result. Frickeg (talk) 00:36, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Done. :) Frickeg (talk) 03:11, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Anything to make creating the pages easier - they can be tricky, and I still routinely find minor errors in the federal ones I created years ago. Ward would've been easy to miss since his period of service was so much later - he would have to be one of the oldest, if not the absolute oldest, people ever to be newly elected to federal parliament. Frickeg (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

If you get a chance, I'd really appreciate any help with overhauling those electorate tables as discussed at the AUSPOL talk page. It's beyond my coding skills to do it, and there's quite a few of these articles that cannot be worked off for other articles in their current state. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. Is there an easy place to find affected articles? And given I know practically nothing about this period of SA politics, is it possible that you could summarise the party changes somewhere in prose, and then I'll put them in the tables? Frickeg (talk) 09:38, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Right, I'll get started then. I may run through the current electorates first just so that the whole thing is standardised. I'll keep you posted so you can check them over for anything I might miss. For now I'll use the plain Liberal colour for the two pre-LCL parties, but this can always be changed later. I don't know anything about non-Labor parties pre-1910 (were there any?) so will just leave them blank for now - they should be easy to fill in if you have the sources. Frickeg (talk) 01:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a start. Hopefully they won't all be as complicated as that one! Frickeg (talk) 02:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


 * All current electorates should now be done. I think I'm all tabled out for today, but I'll work on the former electorates through the week. Frickeg (talk) 06:34, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Done. The 1924s in Barossa aren't meant to line up: Hague was re-elected in 1924 but died a few months later, allowing Crosby (who had been defeated at the 1924 election) to re-enter the House. Frickeg (talk) 08:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Done for Alexandra. Let me know any other early ones that need to be fixed up. :) Frickeg (talk) 23:14, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi, and thank you for proof reading my entries. :)  Trying to getting spelling and grammar is hard enough as it is but a couple of months ago my darling two-year-old grand daughter decided it would be fun to rip a couple of keys from my keyboard, including the letter "n". Sorta makes things difficult at times! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 03:29, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Col Bennett

Hi, and thanks once again for the encouragement!

The main sources I use are Trove (where I find all the old newspaper articles), Australian Dictionary of Biography (when they have an article about the person), and of course the Queensland Parliament website. I tend to run in to trouble though for politicians who served from the mid 50's and onwards because for copyright reasons, the newspapers stop at 1954. The old stories to be found on there though are fascinating and often I get sidelined reading other stories as well. Being in Victoria now has also limited some of the things I used to do. For example, you will find that I added most of the graveyard photos for the people buried in Brisbane, something no longer possible.

One really old story from the 1800's caught my attention. It went along the lines of...... "Longreach news - Two natives were caught stealing from a local camp. The constabulary came and the two captives were immediately hung. Weather - fine and sunny."

Right now I am creating an article for Fred Bromley, the last of the South Brisbane representatives without an article. My plan is to get articles created for every state member, which I guess will take a few more weeks or months. Then I want to clean up all the electorate and associated articles, a couple of weeks I suspect. After all that I am then going to pick out the more interesting politicians to add more detail to their article. Col Bennett is certainly one of those.

So as you can see it is a long term goal I have set for myself. If you know of any websites I can use to get more information please let me know!! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 23:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

1930s SA Labor
Thanks for correcting my edits. I've been doing some historical SA election related edits lately, if you come across other wrong edits please feel free to correct. Is this right or wrong? I don't suppose you have the resources and/or motivation to do the other Lang Labor article you indicated in your edit summary at Electoral district of Adelaide? Timeshift (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Perhaps we should have all Lang'ish parties in their own sections at Lang Labor Party (South Australia) and link to those sections? That way even "Collaton Langites" would be included. And as you didn't say in the last reply.... is this right or wrong? Timeshift (talk) 14:06, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

As well as the above check, can you tell me if this is right or wrong? Timeshift (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

It makes as much sense as 1930s SA Labor politics does in general :) Timeshift (talk) 14:21, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Redirect
Er, why would you redirect a page to itself? Or is there some subtlety of syntax which I've missed? Cheers Bjenks (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

SA MLC lists
Blah. Stopping there. Don't suppose you want to pick up where i left off? Best way to find out is type their name and "party names" with the " in to google and see what you find. Add to their bio article and in the MLC list. I have no doubt 1897 through 1915 has more affiliations i've missed and/or not available online. 1891 to 1897 still need doing. Timeshift (talk) 17:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

At the time I added/ref'd party affiliation in every MP's article that I altered in the MP lists. Timeshift (talk) 05:13, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Is there any way of finding out where historical SA seats were located? It's frustrating to me as a South Australian to come across articles like Electoral district of Stanley (South Australia) and having no idea what populations they actually covered... Timeshift (talk) 16:00, 23 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Found something, thanks. What i'd give to see a circa 1910 map of the 12 multi-member electorates...! And they probably had the best electoral system in SA's history too... Timeshift (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

SA Upper House
Sure, I guess I could make the SA upper house my next priority. I'll have a go at that next time. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Ipswich railway station
There are folks who believe that "Brisbane" is much much bigger than City of Brisbane. Now, that's perhaps a reasonable point of view in Sydney and Melbourne where the City of Sydney and City of Melbourne are very small relative to their associated urban sprawl commonly known as Sydney and Melbourne, but IMHO it's less valid when discussing Brisbane and Ipswich both of which are historically separate places (Brisbane being established as a municipality in 1859 and Ipswich in 1860). I am more sympathetic to the urban sprawl argument when discussing some parts of Logan City which are historically expansions of the Brisbane urban sprawl, which are now placed in City of Logan, which is not historically a separately developed city of its own but a modern creation from local government amalgamations. There are definitely folks who feel they have always lived in "Brisbane" who now find themselves in another LGA. I've seen similar arguments over whether the Gold Coast extends into northern NSW or stops at the Queensland border, because of the "ambush marketing" used by Northern NSW businesses where they advertise themselves as being "Gold Coast resorts" etc. Kerry (talk) 09:56, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Results pages
Thanks! Just getting started here - we really need election results articles for each federal election to match the fantastic work Kirsdarke01 is doing on the state pages, and since I did the electorate ones I may as well carry the work over. It'll make a nice break in between 19th-century NSW politicians. Frickeg (talk) 02:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, before I really get going I'd like your opinion on something. As a long-term project I'd like to get into Trove and start writing some writeups for these seat-level results going back to 1901, as we discussed doing for the NT yonks ago and never really got around to. However, I'm feeling that these could really work better as general summaries of the entire micro-level campaign, and that "results" might not be the best name for the articles. While they'd still be set out the same, I'm thinking perhaps they could also take something from the way the US does these, like this. Maybe we could call ours Australian House of Representatives elections in New South Wales, 1901 or something? I don't know if that will quite work. And what would we do for Senate - Australian Senate elections, 1901 brings us uncomfortably close to the Senate-only elections like Australian Senate election, 1953, but on the other hand I don't know that we really need a whole article on each individual Senate contest. Perhaps something like Australian federal elections in New South Wales, 1901 that could cover both House and Senate? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this. Frickeg (talk) 02:31, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I was actually thinking that these hypothetical pages would render the results pages at least partially obsolete. I mean, we'd still keep the House summaries, but we wouldn't need the state-by-state ones anymore since that would all be covered in the new pages. The parenthetical option could be the best one in the end. At this point the states are so far into the future that I'd barely even want to think about them, but their names could be even more difficult.
 * I'll head over to AUP now and have a look, although I'm not really an expert on early upper house by-elections and vacancies. Which reminds me I still need to go over the NSWLC lists! So much to do! :) Frickeg (talk) 03:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey, just letting you know I've seen your request about North Adelaide - I'm laid low with a cold at the moment but will deal with it on recovery (my brain can't handle those tables when I'm sick as well!). :) Frickeg (talk) 08:24, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've left the NDL stuff for now - did they have a colour they were associated with? It'll probably be easier to do the non-Labor stuff once the whole lot is sorted out, and then I can just go through and take care of the lot in one fell swoop. Frickeg (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

On the name of the pages, I think something like Results of the Australian federal election, 1901 (New South Wales) would work fairly okay. Or if not, I'm alright with Australian federal elections in New South Wales, 1901. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 04:50, 11 July 2015 (UTC)


 * For state elections, I guess the way they're going now is working okay. As "Results of X state election, 19XX (Legislative Assembly) or (Legislative Council) where appropriate. We did a trial run a few years back with putting descriptions up with the results in this page: Results of the Northern Territory general election, 2012 (Arafura and Araluen). I'm guessing the overall aim would be that sort of thing? Kirsdarke01 (talk) 05:36, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

NDL
Perhaps a footnote could be added saying "Endorsement only"? Timeshift (talk) 01:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * If I can input my experience in NSW here - over there, I would say the relationship between, say, the official Free Trade electoral organisation and the parliamentary free traders was tenuous at best. Quite frequently the electoral organisation would just stay out of contests where there was more than one free trader running, or they would endorse a Labor candidate, or they would endorse multiple candidates, or they would not endorse people who were clearly free traders in parliament. The same with the protectionists, and even on occasion Labor (it was not unknown for the Labor Electoral League to endorse someone else against a sitting member who was quite uncontroversially still in caucus). I think for this period we have to have a different way of thinking of party politics altogether, essentially divorcing the parliamentary and electoral wings from each other. If you can determine how someone was affiliated in parliament, I would say that would override any electoral endorsements. With the NDL - was there actually an NDL parliamentary team? Did people say they were in parliament representing the NDL? Was there any sort of caucus or parliamentary organisation? If there was, that's easy. If there wasn't, and the NDL was exclusively an electoral organisation, what did those people call themselves as a group? Liberals? Conservatives? Something else entirely? Frickeg (talk) 02:13, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm keeping this discussion here because it's with the two of you now. My hunch based on everything I've read is that there wasn't really a parliamentary NDL at this point. They supported conservative causes, supported conservative candidates, and some MPs were prominently involved in them, but there doesn't seem to be a parliamentary wing as such. I think that this explains some of the conflicting sources: why some sources (and our election articles) still primarily refer to the "Conservative" and "Liberal" blocs through to prior to the 1910 election, but also why the SA parliament site refers to some but not all MPs involved with the NDL as being NDL. It seems pretty likely to me (and this is a period I haven't researched in detail yet) that if the NDL weren't a parliamentary party already, they at least practically became one around the 1906-10 term due to the rise of the LDU on the other side of non-Labor politics: every non-Labor member is clearly and solely affiliated with one of the three going into the 1910 election, even where they agreed to cross-endorse. That may have happened earlier (still haven't read up on the birth of the FPPU).


 * In parliament, I think at least through the 1890s, the answer to all of Frickeg's questions is "no": they don't seem to have had any of those things, and just seem to have supported candidates they liked who then aligned with either the loose conservative or liberal blocs in parliament, mostly the conservatives. I like Frickeg's approach to determining party membership, but it's so murky on the non-Labor side that it probably means not listing anything non-Labor until at least the 1903-1906 term and the formation of the FPPU, and possibly even 1906-1910.


 * This does leave the question, and it goes back a lot earlier but it comes up here because it crosses over with the birth of the party system - how do we refer to the non-Labor people here? Archibald Peake was probably the first unarguably partisan non-Labor Premier of SA in 1909-10 (for the LDU), but as Premier of South Australia notes there were Premiers leading clearly conservative or liberal governments going back to at least 1890. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:25, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * One last addition: the wording of our article on Richard Butler suggests similar challenges to what we're talking about with the NDL with the FPPU at first: "Butler became the parliamentary leader of an informal group of country members supported by the Farmers and Producers Political Union in 1904." How would you both refer to that group? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Where did you source the party affiliations for Members of the South Australian Legislative Council, 1910–1912? I can't seem to locate them in the ref used. Timeshift (talk) 02:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Fiona Patten
Please spare me juvenile ad hominem comments. Articles need to state things truthfully. What is an "adult shop industry"? It sells shops? It sells adults in shops? No, it as industry that sells pornography, sex toys and various other sex-related products. I'm happy to accept any form of words that states accurately what the EROS Foundation's members do. I'm not happy to accept this feeble euphemism. Intelligent Mr Toad 2 (talk) 05:06, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

SA electorates
Can you find anything on Electoral district of Young (South Australia), Electoral district of Newcastle (South Australia), Electoral district of Gladstone (South Australia)? Timeshift (talk) 06:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

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Carroll
Yes he is? Frickeg (talk) 08:27, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Waterside Workers Federation fuddle-uphgby
Hi, The Drover's Wife,

First of all, I was going to call this section "Waterside Workers Federation fuddle-up", but my rescue kitten is her usual sweet bonkers, and jumped up on my keyboard and did some typing for me, and I rather like her version. (I'd create an account for "User:Shirt58's naughty tortie", but her edits are usually things like "///////////////////////" and "qqqqqqwwwww". And there's also those pesky WP:ADMINCOND and WP:ADMINACCT policies. )

Usually I edit very slowly and carefully. (The six-sentence "Rodney Pople" stub took me about five hours to write.)

In the case of obviously notable articles put for speedy deletion, I go into Twenty20, multi-ball mode, and try to slog as many boundaries and use the flippers to keep as many balls in play as I can. Well, not in a literal sense; just adding reliable refs as quickly as I can.

You are right. I was wrong, and the Australian Trade Union Archives (written when I tried to slog as many boundaries and use the flippers to keep as many balls in play as I can) was also wrong as it can be verified from other reliable sources. Please let me know if you need any more WP:G6's deletions.

Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

John Darling Sr.
We are a bit confused by your suggestion. Could you possibly come by for a visit at Talk:John Darling Sr., and help clarify your request? —BarrelProof (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Gordon Walsh#Issues with this page
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Gordon Walsh. Your input is required. I have requested a WP:3O. Thanks. &#124; Naypta✉ opened his mouth at 06:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

July 2015
Hello, I'm Godsy. I noticed that you made a comment on the page User talk:Naypta that didn't seem very civil. Wikipedia needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 07:17, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Warnbro Sound


The article Warnbro Sound has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Substub and no interest in writing a stub

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Xx236 (talk) 08:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Norm Houghton (historian) AfD
Hi there

Wondering if you could have a look at this article Norm Houghton (historian), and see if you have a view on its notability, which has been proposed for AfD, and if you don't think t gets there yet, whether you have any suggestions for possible sources that might help, thanks Garyvines (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

SA parties
Yes, if anyone ever does really detailed articles on some of these MPs, we can always fix up the details of their switching then. The NDL was a tricky one - "National Defence League" is just way too long, especially for multi-member tables, and I've always been opposed to using initials in these kinds of lists because they provide no information to the general reader (who is not going to have heard of the NDL). Just "Defence" is another option, of course, or perhaps "National Defence" (instead of "Defence League", somewhat like "Liberal and Country" for the LCL). Frickeg (talk) 08:17, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

NSW LC
Thanks! It's been on my list for a while, and finishing the lower house actually increased my motivation to finish this one off. It's slowed down a bit because I came to the realisation that the NSW parliamentary website is deeply unreliable when it comes to the dates of LC terms starting and ending, so I had to go and cross-reference the word document I've been using with the hard-copy biographical register (term endings were sometimes decades off!). The actual article-writing shouldn't be too bad, either, because especially in the early days the bulk of MLCs were ex-MLAs (and they served for life!), so those articles are already done. I am particularly looking forward to getting to the 1930s, though, when it turns out Federal Labor did actually have a presence in the state parliament, something I've always wondered about (and it even appears there may have been a State Labor MLC, but I'll have to look further into that). Frickeg (talk) 03:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

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SA 1933
I found three, Jim Corcoran, Maurice Collins (who I double-checked on Trove given the name), and Tom Garland, as well as John Herbert Cooke in the LC (although I'm assuming you're not done there yet!). Great job! The pages with Labor splits are always fascinating, because you can see where people who might not have been in parliament at the time were. Frickeg (talk) 12:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, yay! I look forward to reading more of that article! I assume the plan is to include the state splits as well? (Would be a great central place for all that tangled SA business!) If so I'd be glad to help with the NSW stuff, since I'm doing all that MLC stuff anyway at the moment and I think that's the only place where any actual parliamentary splits happened. Frickeg (talk) 12:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You're not the only one re: Lang, that is an awful name. Probably should be something more along the lines of New South Wales constitutional crisis, 1932. And it's been fascinating learning more about early SA politics (about which I know essentially nothing) through your work in this area. I had had no idea there was a place where 1931 was more insane than NSW.


 * I hadn't thought about a page of each state split, but that makes a lot of sense - especially given the differences between, say, the 1916 split in WA and the 1916 split in Tasmania. I'll keep an eye out for appropriate content and try to contribute a bit when I get the time. What do you think about tables as a succinct way of indicating who ended up where? Frickeg (talk) 20:45, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Labour or labor
Hi!! Don't they spell it "labor" in Oz? This category (Category:Australian labour movement) should be corrected, no? Yours, Quis separabit?  01:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Andrew Kirkpatrick (Australian politician)
 * added links pointing to Observer and John Gunn

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SA LotO
Good spot at Leader of the Opposition (South Australia) with Corcoran! Though it meant that Bannon onward required their infoboxes to be updated with the correct number. I've done it but just a heads up :) Timeshift (talk) 15:41, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh wow, didn't notice that, another nice pickup! And to think that I thought I found Kirkpatrick a few years as the only missing Labor leader. Good work :) OTOH, just when you find the last remaining pic-less Labor leader pics of Lacey and O'Halloran... Timeshift (talk) 15:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Federal Labor
I think it's probably necessary - there's no way to cover it adequately in the ALP article and the state Labor article would have more to do with Lang than Federal. I'm out of commission for the next week or so but am happy to help dig up some sources after that. My limited understanding is that at state level at least it was a separate party called the "Federal Labor Party", but would need to confirm that. Frickeg (talk) 08:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Frickeg (talk) 09:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Candidates of the South Australian state election, 1921
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Proposed subcategory: Places of Noongar significance
Your input is requested at WT:WikiProject Noongar. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Trent Zimmerman
Please reconsider the deletion of this bio. Given the comment in this yesterday's Sydney Morning Herald (below) I'm sure many people will be looking for information on this notable political figure.

"The current NSW Liberal Party president, Trent Zimmerman is the front runner to replace Mr Hockey in the seat of North Sydney, with the moderate faction claiming a strong hold on the numbers in local branches.

No date has been set for a byelection yet but insiders were not ruling out a factional battle over the preselection, with predictions the Right faction would resist Mr Zimmerman taking the plum seat.

Mr Zimmerman is a long time mover and shaker in the so called 'wet' faction of the Liberals both in state executive and behind the scenes. He has worked for Mr Hockey as a staffer and is currently a senior policy adviser at the lobby group, Tourism and Transport Forum (TTF). He is openly gay and is the current state president of the party."

14:49, 5 February 2015 Deor (talk | contribs) deleted page Trent Zimmerman (per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trent Zimmerman)

Castlemate (talk) 22:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

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Succession Boxes
No problem at all with helping out. I have noticed quite a lot of missing "boxes" on a number of little known MP's. If you need help with anything in particular just let me know Linkqer (talk) 15:32, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

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 * Alfred Blackwell
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reverting CSD nominations
I think you should explain why you've reverted CSD nominations for Ulster Wildlife Trust ‎  and Light Railway Research Society of Australia ‎. Where are the assertions of importance? The Dissident Aggressor 01:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Please go to the talk pages! The Dissident Aggressor 01:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:HOUND
Ok, now I think you're hounding me. Please knock it off! The Dissident Aggressor 01:02, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Stop
It's clear from this edit that you have no idea what you're doing. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I did NOT remvove the speedy deletion notice. Please stop.

Go to the talk pages before you continue reverting and WP:HOUNDing my edits. The Dissident Aggressor 01:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:NPA
By the way, you might want to check someone's creds before you make personal attacks like saying someone spends their entire time on Wikipedia  nominating established articles for deletion. The Dissident Aggressor 01:20, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Racecourse, Queensland. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 09:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Iggy Azalea
On 19:19, 30 October 2015 you added Template:POV and Template:Too few opinions to the article Iggy Azalea. The first template states, "Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page." I didn't see a section that refers to this template. Did you create a section on Talk:Iggy Azalea to post your rationale for this template? Mitchumch (talk) 03:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

NSWLC
Thanks! It's actually been a really enjoyable job. Just finishing off the final list (1856-61) now, and will then do the last member bios from the pre-1856 period. Should all be done in a week or so! Frickeg (talk) 04:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There'll probably be a lull for a bit, but most likely cross-checking NSW candidates with the ADB. Once I'm ready to do more MP bios I'll probably look at Victoria. Frickeg (talk) 04:06, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Awesome work with Walker! There'll be a bunch more of these people tomorrow, especially the 1861 appointees who never took their seats, should you be interested. Frickeg (talk) 08:20, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

The Betoota Advocate
I see that you have reverted twice and applied for page protection on the grounds that it was a 'hoax article', but this was declined. Earlier versions were indeed hoax articles, but I am asking for this article to be undeleted as I believe the subject now meets Notability criteria. I note the recent controversy, covered by both the Sydney Morning Herald and ABC, where John Eales felt it necessary to respond publicly to a satirical Betoota Advocate piece, indicating that it is now a popular site. In the SMH article in the References, journalist Peter FitzSimons describes it as a 'popular satirical website.' The News satire article also refers to it. Elitism (talk) 21:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Who are the 'you' who is 'spamming'? I had nothing to do with the earlier hoax articles. Where in my article was there 'faux-history'? You'll have noticed that User:NeilN, in declining your application for page protection, said 'not a hoax and the article has more sources than the one deleted at AFD'. Elitism (talk) 04:59, 3 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I will ask the question again: would you care to point out the 'faux-history' in my versions of the article?Elitism (talk) 11:09, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

LGA question
Hi The Drover’s Wife, I copied the thread from my talk page to yours as it is likely to grow...
 * Hey, thanks for adding to the tags to the early LGA articles I created. You seem to have a bit of a knack for making sense of South Australia's unusually complicated gazettal arrangements for places and such, and I was wondering if there's any chance you might be able to help me. The sources I've discovered online, plus Trove, make any LGA that was out of existence before 1923 a piece of cake to cover from my computer. Given a few weeks, I'm going to hit up the State Library and look up some of the recommendations of book sources I've seen after that, but I'm not sure how much luck I'll have. The problem I see coming up is that I can fill in all these early blanks, but when it comes to some of the big holes in the region I'm currently working on - Port Adelaide and Woodville being the two obvious ones there - these are beyond any source I can get my hands on right now. They clearly need to be broken out from their 1990s-era super-municipalities so we can tell the full history before they got merged, but I'm not sure of how to source exactly what type of LGA they were at what time - most states just had shires, towns and cities, but SA has a whole lot of them that were never terribly consistent and I'm getting a bit stuck on how to trace the histories of the longer-lasting councils. Any ideas? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 16:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi I have the following initial comments.


 * 1) Mergers of the 1990s - I presume that a process of consultation would have taken place and that there would be reports and minutes of this somewhere available.  I do remember finding one of these reports when looking for something else online recently.  A good place to start would be the State Records SA website (i.e. http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/).  By the way, you can order records online and view these in the reading room at the State Library of SA.
 * 2) Planning legislation - the following link opens a lengthy document that list amendments to the development plans for a number of LGAs that ceased to exist in the last years of the twentieth century or the early years of the twenty-first century - http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/177935/Historical_council_record_of_consolidations.pdf.  This list would allow you to identify some of the LGAs that were merged to form the current LGAs.  The development plans (DP) for the now non- existent LGAs were available online until relatively recently when the specific webpage was removed.  I was hoping to download a number of these to better understand the extent of the Riverland whose WP article is in need of an upgrade.  These DPs would have been very useful as these contained maps showing the former LGA boundaries as well as written descriptions.
 * 3) State Centenary in 1936 - I saw a hardcopy of a book called “South Australian Centenary, The Official Civic Record of South Australia 1936” in the library at State Records in 2014.  It contains a description of each LGA in SA as of 1936.  I recently noticed that it is viewable online at http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-11350397/view#page/n0/mode/1up.  The content of this document would move you up to 1936.
 * 4) History of SA Councils (on the LGASA website) - please refer http://www.lga.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=2868 - there is a picture of the cover of a book called “The Civic Record 1986” whose content could get you up to 1986.  This is also a link to a paper by Dr Susan Marsden (refer below) entitled “A History of South Australian Councils until 1936” which would be useful to read in conjunction with the “Civic Record” book discussed above.  It also would be prudent to do a thorough search of the LGASA website to see what else is there.
 * 5) Access to books - If you live in SA, you can borrow books from any local library within the state via your local library using the “one card network” (please refer http://www.libraries.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=499).  I have used this service to get access to a number of books to use as sources for articles.
 * 6) Woodville - There is a professionally written history about the former Corporation of the City of (formerly District Council) of Woodville called “A history of Woodville” (author - Susan Marsden).  Of interest, is a map on page 3 that shows the LGA boundaries for the period from the mid 1850s to 1977.  Also, the City of Charles Sturt does have some local history content on its website which may include some information about the merger with Hindmarsh (sometime after 1977) prior to the creation of the City of Charles Sturt.
 * 7) Port Adelaide - At the moment, I have little to offer in respect to Port Adelaide.  From memory, there is at least one history of Port Adelaide.  I have not done much searching online apart from looking at the following sites - http://porthistory.net/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/paelocalhistory/sets.
 * 8) Other WP articles - for your information, I am interested in doing an upgrade to Local government areas of South Australia in respect to the statutory administration arrangements and the management of park, reserves and other open space within the responsibility of local government. By the way, there is a discussion on the talk page of the above article re the subject of former SA LGAs.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 00:55, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Further to Item 4 above, I should have included the following link rather than talk about it as it is probably the most useful to you in the first instance - http://www.lga.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/LGA-89938_-_2011_18_-_FINAL_History_of_SA_Councils.pdf.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 20:02, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Maintenance tags on Matagarup Refugee Camp
Hi there. I notice that you removed the POV tag from the article Matagarup Refugee Camp, with the explanation "no explation for tags". I am puzzled by this, because it seems clear to me that the article is very one-sided. It is written from the protesters' point of view, with no acknowledgement of any dissenting view. Regardless of one's personal views, this is well short of the sort of balance I would expect, and I suspect it was written to try to justify the protesters' actions. It is filled with emotive language such as talking about the "Western Australian Government's threat", the unsourced statement that the city "refused the right of the protesters to camp, protest and to shelter the homeless", the city "raided" the camp, allegations of excessive force which are only sourced to YouTube, and that they "have brought the right of the homeless to camp at Heirisson Island before various tribunals, mediation and courts" (once again, assuming that they are in the right and the police and councils are wrong). So I would be interested to hear why you removed the tag - do you really feel this is a balanced article?--Gronk Oz (talk) 07:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply on my User Talk page, . I think we may be talking at cross purposes - you talked about verifiability, but I was talking about a different issue - balanced reporting, or a "neutral point of view".  The article in question is written to portray only the protesters' side.  It has used only articles which favour the protesters.  It uses language which indicates strongly that the protesters have the legal right to be there, without mentioning that the law actually prohibits it.  It fails to mention the safety and sanitation issues, with overflowing toilets and people defecating in the camping area - these are not just unpleasant, they mean the government is required to act since it has a duty of care. The article as it stands presents a decidedly one-sided view in my opinion, and I will be interested to hear why you feel otherwise before I decide whether it is worth taking this to the article's Talk page for wider input.--Gronk Oz (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

O'Connell
I'll keep that in mind - at the moment the Victorian MPs are the main project (plus a few NSW fringe people on the side), though. Will have to keep an eye out for potential sources! Frickeg (talk) 04:48, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Wheat Creek Culvert
I am not sure exactly what is going on here in terms of telling the story about the relocation/destruction. The culvert was at least 25 metres long according to the QHR. Now I think it unlikely they have relocated all 25 metres of it into the bus station. Look at the photo in the infobox; it looks to me like they've only relocated a metre or two and painted in the "blue light" tunnel interior and surrounded it with interpretation material. In which case, they have probably destroyed some/all of the rest of it. I guess I need to eyeball it to work out just how much of it is really left in the bus station. But thanks as always for your interest in these QHR articles. Kerry (talk) 06:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * My husband has offered to drop in and eyeball it (he works in the CBD). As for the Pizzey Memorial Clock, I had no joy either. I tried emailing the heritage unit at the Bundaberg Regional Council but the email address (taken from their website) bounced! I'll keep digging. Given its location on the edge of the Bruce Highway, I'm betting some kind of road crash may be involved. Kerry (talk) 00:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, I have some answers. There is about a "bit over a metre" of culvert on display in the bus station. And the Pizzey Clock is not destroyed but rebuilt at a new location in order to develop the old location into Millenium Park which features a Kanaka Monument instead. Indeed, you can see the Pizzey Clock here in Google Street View at the Childers Heritage Museum. If you compare it with this older image, you will see a number of differences and a new shorter base and clock face now has roman numerals. What's retained appears to be the breeze blocks behind the clock face (breeze blocks are so Queensland!) and the squared-circle shape of the clock face. So not "destroyed" as the QHR claim, but apparently its relocation was the reason for being dropped from the QHR.  Kerry (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for indie talkpage contrib - but to a more pressing issue...
This really annoys me. What are your thoughts? Timeshift (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

sigh
Its not just the lake, it is regularly used as a locality name in nickel mine material, and geographically, and geologically it is not just the lake its the hinterland.... reason for not doing what you have just done.... but, its november and everything is topsy turvy... JarrahTree 00:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * nah NBD - hey there are more bush turkeys to worry about rather than naming conventions, btw thnks for some of your more interesting campaigns of recent half of year, I owe you a beer or latte sometime, if we ever meetup in RL JarrahTree 00:25, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

SA Cabinet / Ministries
Hey. The coding is pretty simple, just copy it from the ones I have done and u should be fine. If not I can always update them at a latter date :) Linkqer (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Alternative Port Working Party
I don't think this belongs in the category Community activists.because, as you say, its not a person. Can you find something appropriate?Rathfelder (talk) 11:29, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Commissioner of Public Works
Hi, you are completely correct. I created this page with what I thought was full information, however i've since seen my error. I also agree with you saying re current portfolios, and placing the historical titles as just that.

Further more Commissioner of Public Works went through many forms, I believe it can be placed in the current Transport and Infrastructure portfolio. (Commissioner of Public Works -> Minister of Works -> Minister of Public Works -> Minister of Public Infrastructure -> Minister of Infrastructure -> Minister for Transport and Infrastructure) this is a per the Parliament website, not through the Statistical Register, however all the dates match from what I can see. I have built a replacement table, based on the table on Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development (Australia) page, which you can hopefully view at User:Linkqer/sandbox. Thoughts always wanted Linkqer (talk) 09:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Vic LegCo
Ack, yes, you're right. Should be all good now. I was hoping to be able to include a change column but apparently the table isn't wired for that, and I'm not really good enough to be able to fix it so that it's an option (although it may be for the best, given the staggered term thing). Frickeg (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm Oiyarbepsy. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, William H. Bennett (newspaperman), and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:31, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

The Times and Northern Advertiser
The Times and Northern Advertiser served a town with a population of a mere 1700 people. What makes this small-town newspaper notable? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:32, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

 * Thanks for your work on Australian and Worst Australian subjects and topics for 2015
 * Have a safe and enjoyable christmas season
 * Best wishes to you and all your family JarrahTree 11:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Gardner
Thanks! Although it was only because I happened to be looking at Psephos for that election that I caught it. He's almost certainly not the only one on that list of mine whose death has gone pretty much completely unnoticed (that's what the list is for, after all, to try and catch those people!). Frickeg (talk) 07:58, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Zwar
It was a bit of a judgement call; Psephos listed his reason for not running as a Liberal as his support for Macfarlan. The whole ministerial/oppositionist thing in 1945 is very unclear and I'm not at all sure that there was an official ministerial "list"; it certainly never seems to have been a proper party. The candidates lists I've found in Trove have generally seemed to have classified people as "Govt Lib" purely depending on whether they had espoused support of the Macfarlan government, and they're not consistent between each other. I'm not really sure of the best way of doing it anyway - I mean, Mackrell and Allnutt and Hollins were running as official government supporters too (Mackrell and Hollins as ministers!), but it wouldn't be right to put them under a "Liberal" banner. It might be a better idea to separate the Ministerial column from the Liberals, and to have instead a separate Ministerial column with (Lib), (CP), (Ind) after them like the way we do the Coalition now. I'm far from certain about this. Frickeg (talk) 05:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've given it a go. I think it almost certain there are other ministerial supporters amongst the independents, but it would take combing through each of their press coverage individually to be sure and I don't think I'll do that right now! Frickeg (talk) 05:38, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

I made this plea with you largely in mind - hoping you can help as I'm drawing a complete blank on finding a decent source. Of course I could spend hours digging through Trove but I'm hoping you might have something simpler? Frickeg (talk) 12:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks from me too! Kerry (talk) 09:04, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Thanks for reviewing Cyclone Leonta, The Drover&#39;s Wife.

Unfortunately Topbookclub has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:

"reviewed page and added categories"

To reply, leave a comment on Topbookclub's talk page.

Valid Redlink?
I'm not sure what you mean by a "valid redlink". That makes no sense. A redlink means there is no article/broken link. -Topbookclub

Disregard
Never mind I have read the Wikipedia:Red_link article and understand what you mean now. I thought that red links were a article that had been deleted. Sorry! -Topbookclub

Vaiben Solomon
Hi TDW! Could you please move the Vaiben Solomon page to Vaiben Louis Solomon? He was known that way more often than not, and I may soon have enough on the original VS, his uncle, to start an article. Doug butler (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Tony Piccolo's factional alignment
Hi, following you edit to Tony Piccolo, I wonder if you would mind substatiating your assertion regarding Piccolo's alignment with the right faction with a statement and a reference? Also do you have a reference to refute the referenced info you deleted regarding Piccolo's alignment from 2010? I've also started a discussion about this on the Tony Piccolo talk page. --Danimations (talk) 02:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Aust Ambassador to North Korea
Hi and thank you for that note on the unfinished sentence in the List of Australian Ambassadors to North Korea page! I have fixed at the article. Clare. (talk) 22:28, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Request for comment
Your thoughts at Talk:South Australian state election, 1950 would be appreciated :) Timeshift (talk) 15:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I thought it was timely that I dropped you a line to congratulate you on the masses of SA MP images you've been uploading recently. Considering how relatively comprehensive the area of SA politics has become recently, the images really are the icing on the cake. Just on it's own it makes the subject area look even far more professional. Wikipedia has truly evolved in to the Internet repository of SA politics. Well done to you in particular and to all who contributed, large and small. Somehow I doubt they care, but if they did, the ECSA and Antony Green would truly be green with envy. In addition, are you done with SA politics improvements for now or do you plan to keep going? While we've certainly come a very long way, there's always more to do. We have only a solitary Rann Government article, almost no by-election articles prior to 1968, no maps prior to 2006 (1993 to 2002 maps used 2006 boundaries with a caption indicating as such) but we do have maps contained within links for each election article going back to 1985. Tracing/copying of those maps going back to 1985 would be a great start, but i'd be over the moon if we somehow managed to find and use maps going back to at least the start of single-member electorates. Maps going back to ~1900 or even earlier is a pipe dream I think, but who knows. These continue to be the missing areas off the top of my head, are there any other areas that come to mind for you that I can mentally add to my to-do list? I never thought SA politics on here would ever get anywhere near what it is today so i'll never say never. I assume this link covering federal maps right back to 1901 has come to your attention before? I couldn't believe my eyes when was first shown it, though the slight distortion of some boundaries was a little bit of a let-down. But still gave a lot of insight in to federal boundary history which I find fascinating. If only there was an SA state equivalent... Timeshift (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Doing articles like Rann Government are great in the right circumstances (we need a Weatherill Goverment article...) but it is going to be really tricky if/when someone gets around to doing Dunstan Government and Playford Government articles. I still miss User:Beneaththelandslide despite having left this site many years ago - he was one of our finest talents and a great loss to SA politics coverage. His finest achievements (a very big deal at the time) was that he got Dunstan and Playford to Featured Article status when it was the norm to have both the biography and their government intertwined in to the same article. But times change, and now the Dunstan and Playford articles, while still fantastic, will be an absolute nightmare to whoever dares to butcher up the Featured Articles, one for the person, one for the government. It would definitely put the FAs in to jeopardy. Whoever ends up doing it has mighty courage, in a way it's like taking an axe to tutankhamun. Timeshift (talk) 15:17, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. In regards to your expansions and layout changes for MPs/Premiers, sorry to take the lazy way out but just wanted to know if when you come across an electoral district or an election, are you adding links to those seats/elections? One of the things I historically remember is when the MP/Premier articles were created, most seat/election articles did not exist and were therefore just plain text without links. Over time you may have noticed i've been linking to them here and there, but was wondering and hoping that you might be doing the same too? Timeshift (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Smithsonian and Holt
Might I inquire as to the reason you make a claim of fact in Wikipedia's voice which is not made in the Smithsonian Magazine's voice? And why the part about the rumours which is clearly found in that source as a straightforward claim is so casually removed here? Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:32, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

South Australian elections
Well done for starting all those election articles. One query I had with regards to them (and other Australian ones) is the use of "colonial election". I've never felt it's really the right descriptor – of course, South Australia was a colony at the time, but we don't use the term "colonial election" for any other country that was a colony. Would "South Australian House of Assembly election, XXXX" perhaps be better? Cheers, Number   5  7  21:22, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Shamba
I'll keep my eyes open for more background information and add it to the article. My personal impression is that this came about very recently. Shamba has been an independent political force since the 2004 election. Back then he already founded his own politicial party, the Social-Democratic Party. When he rejoined government first as Foreign Minister then as Prime Minister I guess he sort of no longer needed it (just as Aitaira no longer really served a purpose when Alexander Ankvab and Leonid Lakerbaia joined the government). After the 2011 election Shamba retired, at least from active politics. Since last year, he's back, and he has had some influence in Parliament, but he can now back this up with a political party with an existing machinery and quite extensive membership. United Abkhazia in turn have been fighting against irrelevance. They supported the 2011 revolution, but they are not in the centre of power and don't offer any political vision apart from the appropriation of the memory of Sergei Bagapsh. And they have been looking for a new leader since Daur Tarba resigned last year. So I would say this is a classic case of a political party looking for popularity and a strong, well known individual politician finding each other. sephia karta |  dimmi  12:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually, this article reports that in the sidelines of the United Abkhazia congress, it was being said that Tarba resigned specifically to make room for Shamba. (Which still fits with what I wrote above.) sephia karta  |  dimmi  12:31, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 13 February
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Chuckles
I got a giggle out of your edit summaries when you moved the Woolshed Flat Railway Bridge from the Clare Valley to Pichi Richi Pass. Watch out - Stirling North is a long way from Stirling East, too. Do you have any heritage items you need place articles created to hang them on? I'm happy to help make the places if you would like. --Scott Davis Talk 11:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 15 February
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Campbell Newman page reverts
If reverting or undoing edits made to the Campbell Newman page, please explain why changes were made. I see no justification for your reverts other than politically motivated bias. The biography of any living person must be neutral and factual in tone and as up to date as possible. --Brizvegan (talk) 03:41, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * TDW, I just added a lot of nag tags to BV's supposedly unbiased and neutral version, then this morning did a blanket revert to before their edits as I agree they were POV, substantial, unreferenced and not discussed. Since then I fixed some dashes and tenses, maybe added a reference, happy for you to revert those if you need to, they were very minor. --Canley (talk) 02:20, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Chris Osborne
Hi, haven't had time to add more references and citations as yet. Jarama52 (talk) 17:08, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Stuarts Creek, South Australia
Hi, Thanks for writing the article. I have the following comment. The Outback Communities Authority (OCA) only provides municipal services to communities to the unincorporated area within the SAG regions of the “Eyre & Western” and the “Far North”; it does not manage the entire unincorporated area. The latter service is provided by various SAG agencies and the Commonwealth government where it has jurisdiction. The most recent available OCA annual report does not mention any communities within Stuarts Creek while the map on the OCA website does not show any communities (please refer http://www.oca.sa.gov.au/?q=communitieshome ). I have not remove mention of the OCA from the article yet as I am wondering what information is available on Location SA Map Viewer. Also, I would suggest that you use a title such as “Search result(s) for Stuarts Creek 5720” for the citation as this will suggest to the reader that they may have to do a search in order to validate the information. If you wish to reply, please do so here and not on my talk page. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 21:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Cowdy, I am glad you brought this up, because it's way more complicated than I'd realised. It actually seems to be even more confusing: for one, Stuarts Creek is in the Far North region, so it isn't defined by those regions, and the last annual report refers to a number of communities that aren't on that map (big heritage works at Farina, a number of small communities it refers to as "dormant" that aren't on there, and I didn't read the whole thing), but doesn't seem to anywhere obvious provide a complete explanation of exactly how broad their jurisdiction is. It also states in its purpose section that the OCA "manages the provision of public services and facilities to outback communities including smaller settlements such as farming, pastoral and tourism enterprises". However, the whole thing is so vague about what exactly they do in these really small localities that I feel like the only way to get a direct answer might be to contact the department for an explanation and hope they have a public source we can use. In the meantime, I think the best way is to remove the OCA from anywhere we can't explicitly show they're active, and I've done that in the case of Stuarts Creek.


 * I will also take on board your suggestion about reference naming and have done it for the Stuarts Creek article. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 01:14, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

WA 1983 Upper House
Whoops, it was a typo. It's fixed now. Thanks for double checking. Kirsdarke01 (talk) 22:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

rwsa
did you feel any need to explain your dislike for a working template on a page that you've never edited ? and yet the other edits I made the same day are left alone ? --Dave Rave (talk) 01:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Point Boston
Point Boston is a bounded locality, not just a geographical feature - please check before going for the redirect! Sorry to have to be a harpy - I'm still working on localities in that area so I'll get to it shortly but current LOCBs getting redirected is a pet hate of mine. (It's also not in, or adjacent to, Boston!) The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry, my oversight. If it still needs fixing I'll fix it. Donama (talk) 00:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Murray Bridge
Can you please not redirect these LOCB topics? There are several of us trying to get articles on all of these and you just rendered the locality lists for Murray Bridge useless in determining what does and doesn't have articles because now half of those that don't have unhelpful blue-links. I know you do a lot of good work, but this really hampers the efforts of others of us trying to tackle this, and it's not like you didn't know those were LOCBs and so were notable. Doing so many at a time (and on somewhere I'm not currently working on) means that's just going to be a mess that's going to get forgotten about instead of getting done with all the other localities. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:16, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the bother here. There were some LOCBs redirecting to Murray Bridge and it was inconsistent. The local council template didn't even have links and the list had typos. Now it *is* consistent. I don't think redlinks for these suburbs was the best way to ensure people knew the article wasn't there as zero (that is, none) existed. A redirect to Murray Bridge is a way to let everyone know no specific content yet exists. I did some similar work around Moonta, South Australia because it had the same problem. Donama (talk) 05:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I get that, but I'm literally running around fixing these council templates and lists today (I did a bunch of the Murray councils last night), and there's a lot less point in going to the trouble if they're all just random redirects to the nearest town. If you'd held off, there would have been a correct list without typos by, like, tonight.


 * I can fix a couple of LOCBs that are redirecting to a centre (as with, for example, Point Boston, which was no trouble), but I can't do it if someone goes and does all of them because that's days of concentrated work to do them properly, so those ones necessarily get shunted to to the bottom of the pile as too much of a headache. Redirecting to the nearest centre doesn't tell readers no content exists until they click the link and discover that the article they've been sent to doesn't even mention the place let alone contain any useful information, but it does make it much, much harder for editors trying to expand coverage to know that no content yet exists, to ensure that the "yet" doesn't come permanent, and to keep track of what does and does not need work.


 * I really find this one of the most disheartening things about making concerted efforts to fill in red links - people creating redirects on topics they know are notable to articles that contain nothing about the topic the link came from really does make that task so much harder. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:48, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I do take your point. I truly apologise for being a force for disheartening you. Let me be more careful in future! Donama (talk) 06:08, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I've obviously noticed your diligent work around Moonta lately and believe the same can be done for Murray Bridge (and probably other regional centres in SA) so I've started a little project to atone for my sins at User:Donama/Murray Bridge suburbs. Any help welcomed. Donama (talk) 07:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

File:Kiana.jpg listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Kiana.jpg, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Nick⁠—⁠Contact/Contribs 19:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

ANI notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Dave Rave (talk) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * you might have offered a note pointing to Citation templates before assuming that you have the consensus Dave Rave (talk) 03:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Highercombe council
Do you mind if I break out a separate article on the Highercombe council? It existed for 82 years and existed alongside Tea Tree Gully for 77 of them, so I feel that's notable. I think a lot of these cases where there are kind of overlapping councils (like I'm doing a whole bunch at the moment were a District Council got created for a cadastral hundred, the town incorporated leaving the District Council representing nowhere with any people, and that still surviving for 50 years) don't make sense unless they're actually broken out to clearly delineate them, and it also allows for separate lists of chairmen/mayors that would get too long in a merged article. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 03:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not at all. I'd already done it when I realised they existed side by side for more than 70 years! Please do it. Donama (talk) 04:34, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Queensland Police Service
The list is true and correct in 2016 as it is in 1987. the list shows honours the person had at the completion of their tenure, that is a globally accepted way of doing things. He held those honours until 1993, in any case, his 'GM' was never removed from him... I strongly suggest you check out Chief of the Defence Force (Australia) before reverting anything else. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 16:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Mayor
Just an FYI, I've modified Infobox Australian place so mayor will only display if lga. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 17:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Fun coincidence
Hi. I was doing family history stuff tonight instead of Wikipedia, and found one of my 3x great aunts died at Apoinga, South Australia. I didn't recall having ever heard of the place, but found it had a Wikipedia article - then noticed the creation date :-) You only created the article yesterday. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 13:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind message - and for the very useful expansion. Glad to know they're of interest. I'm finding the ones out Burra way a bit challenging because the modern localities don't easily line up with old uses, and it's very difficult for me to tell from say Trove whether a reference to "Apoinga" is talking about the hundred or about the much smaller but apparently never formally surveyed village that formed around the hotel and smelting works. Interesting nonetheless! The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 15:44, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * My 3x great aunt was in her 70s when she died in 1918, so I suspect she was living with one of her children or grandchildren on a farm (but I haven't worked out who or where yet), so the wider Hundred of Apoinga could well have been the intended meaning. My wife and I each have about 30 immigrant ancestors, and their descendants have been scattered across a lot of the state (and a few other places). Address recording seems to have been quite patchy in the days when the colony was small enough that most people knew where every named place meant. --Scott Davis Talk 06:49, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Royal Children's Hospital
You removed text saying, "not the place." - I responded noting, "Both citations refer to RCH Gender Service. There is balance both pos and neg. It is a contentious issue. How / why is it "not the place" to reference this? - You said, "an article on a major hospital is not the place to have a political argument about transgender rights" - I responded a week ago, "That is your POV. If you check Wikipedia's articles involving 'Hospitals', within those they contain hundreds of political arguments and controversies. Why should this issue be excluded?" - I am awaiting your response. B20097 (talk) 12:19, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Talk page size
Hello. It would appear that your talk page is growing oversized and getting difficult to read and load. Maybe you could set up some type of automatic archiving like this? Thanks!  JW  Noctis talk to me 10:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Enjoy!
Congratulations! you have made Wikipedia immeasurably less useful. In particular I love the bit you wrote about not a single newspaper compiling a list of Mehajer's shell companies when in fact the footnote on almost every single one of them pointed to this article in The Australian. Gotta love the work of someone as observant as you. I was also fascinated with your novel interpretation of WP:OR. One could almost call such a definition an attempt at doing some "original research" of No original research. It's definitely original, I'll grant you that! - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Required notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. (Apologies for IP hopping, I'm on a cellular connection) - 1.144.97.73 (talk) 09:51, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Eulalie Dawson
Hi TDW! I started on this article expecting it to be heroic and triumphant but found it ending tragically. Does it squeak through your notability gauge or should I rewrite it as Dean Dawson (footballer) ? Doug butler (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

your AfD comments
You might want to note what an admin said about you here Articles for deletion/List of Consuls-General of Australia in Milan. In addition to your continual WP:ADHOM comments against me in AfDs. LibStar (talk) 04:37, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * it's funny because many that i have nominated like the list of consuls are being deleted. Using WP:ADHOM or WP:MUSTBESOURCES arguments without stating a single source doesn't work. Your comments don't deter me one bit in fact encourage me to nominate more. Suggest you concentrate on genuine arguments for keep. LibStar (talk) 06:28, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * This was closed as delete Articles for deletion/Indian Ambassador to Cote d'Ivoire. so much for your suggested topic ban for me. LibStar (talk) 03:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 25 May
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Moonta, South Australia page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=722049138 your edit] caused an unsupported parameter error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F722049138%7CMoonta, South Australia%5D%5D Ask for help])

Dittmer
I was surprised too! It's probably because it's mostly in the context of his dad, and then they say "his son, Barry ...". There's quite a lot if you Google for Barry Dittmer, especially in Hansard (Jo-Ann Miller mentions him in her maiden speech and he's also mentioned in the condolence motion for his dad). Frickeg (talk) 09:37, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I was really glad to find it, because before every time I saw it I would go, "oh, look, I forgot to link that!", and then I would figure out why. Frickeg (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

3RR
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.-- g. balaxaZe   ★  10:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Pointless reverts
You are playing reverting battle and removing materials without discussion and this is against Wikipedia rules. Stop your reverts and discuss everything here, if you don't I'll revert your edits and advice you to do not change status quo unless you won't provide explanations or you risk to be blocked.-- g. balaxaZe   ★  10:11, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Tony Briffa
You reverted my adding of the Category:Genderqueer people with the comment "no source for that category". However, Wikipedia's genderqueer article starts off "Genderqueer (GQ), also termed non-binary or gender-expansive, is a catch-all category for gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine‍". And we have multiple sources for Tony identifying as both male and female. So please tell me how this category is a problem? -- Brainy J  ~ ✿ ~ ( talk ) 02:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Requested moves
Hi DW! Can I please enlist your expertise to move Daily Herald (Adelaide) to The Herald (Adelaide) over the existing redirect? After starting a separate page for The Weekly Herald/The Herald I figured they were better as one article though there was discontinuity in banner, issue numbering offices and staff.

Also, I reckon The Truth (Melbourne) (and other capitals) should be moved to Truth (Melbourne) etc, as "The" was never part of the paper's title. Doug butler (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, thought you had a permit. Cheers! Doug butler (talk) 05:20, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Einasleigh Copper Mine and Smelter
What's your opinion on the following paragraphs, in particular the mention of a conservative government being elected in 1923? It looks to me like a Labor government was elected in 1923? Do you think they meant it was a Labor govt but one more conservative than the previous ones and thus opposed to State-owned enterprises? Your political knowledge is better than mine. Kerry (talk) 05:55, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

In 1919 the Queensland Government took over the Chillagoe Smelter and reopened the Einasleigh Mine under the terms of the Chillagoe and Etheridge Railways Purchase Act of 1918, at a cost of 100,000 pounds. By December it was at full output, providing three-quarters of the copper ore treated at the smelters thereby keeping the Chillagoe Smelters going. By 1920 the mine employed 100 men and was producing 450 - 500 tons of copper ore per week. However, the drop in metal prices in 1920 from 120 pounds to 72 pounds per ton, and the drain on the mine's reserves, led to the mine being closed in 1922.[1]

At this time the whole of the Chillagoe Field, the Chillagoe Smelter and mining operations generally in State-owned enterprises were losing considerable amounts of money. The election of a conservative government in 1923, opposed to State-owned enterprises led to the closure of the Smelter until 1926 when a Labor government was returned to power.[1]

Australian banking crisis of 1893
Thanks for that link. I'd searched previously without success for an article on the topic (which is kinda strange as the article is many years old so I should have found it, guess I used the wrong key words). The banking crash comes up a lot in the heritage register articles. I might have to do a bit of a search to add it in to other articles. Kerry (talk) 04:08, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Kuridala Township site
I think having looked into it, it must be Wallaroo, South Australia as they had copper smelters there as did Dapto NSW. There is no sign of Wallaroo NSW or Wallaroo WA being a copper town. Sound reasonable to you? Kerry (talk) 04:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Murray Bridge LGAs
Please no with the redirecting of past local governments! It just makes it that much harder to unentangle them because you can't see what doesn't have an article (and should) and it's hard to keep track of the ones that have been randomly redirected and need articles versus those that are actual legitimate redirects. At least this time it's one that's next on my list after Goyder and Copper Coast but it really is a nuisance. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is not randomly redirected. I considered carefully before doing this. The District Council of Mobilong and Corporate Town of Murray Bridge were 2 separate LGAs but both (the former in particular) has a continuous history with the present-day Rural City of Murray Bridge so I don't think it's necessarily logical for the separate articles to exist unless, of course, the current article gets big enough to warrant splitting it out, which I'm happy for anyone to do. I can't imagine doing this kind of a redirect in any other case. In fact, I'm keen to fix cases where it's already happened (e.g. City of Holdfast Bay). PS where is your todo list? Donama (talk) 06:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

The Block Arcade
Hello, I see you have changed the Wikipedia article of Block Arcade, Melbourne back to its original content. While I am sure you were doing this in the intent to make it better, I am an employee of the company and have express permission to alter the article. Thus, you changing it from all the work I put into it, is frustrating and I ask you change it back. I was informed that I could use the website as a means for information. Thank you for your time. Twchelsea12 (talk) 05:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

See my reply regarding Playford at User talk:Linkqer
Feel free to respond there, here, or on my userpage, if you wish to reply :) Timeshift (talk) 06:46, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

COPYVIO
" Even inserting text copied with some changes can be a copyright violation if there is substantial linguistic similarity in creative language or sentence structure; this is known as close paraphrasing, which can also raise concerns about plagiarism. Such a situation should be treated seriously, as copyright violations not only harm Wikipedia's redistributability, but also create legal issues." Copyright violations Close paraphrasing Spacecowboy420 (talk) 07:58, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016
Your recent editing history at Safe Schools Coalition Australia shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.''This is an honest warning. I realize that we don't agree on the content of this article, but I certainly don't want you to break 3RR and get blocked from editing. '' Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:55, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.''Come on. That's four reverts in 24 hours. Do the rules not apply to you? Please take advantage of my laziness and do a self revert, so I don't have to make a 3RR report and request that you are blocked.
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

'' Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

NT
It's been a while since it's been just the two of us on one of these! Good job updating all the seat pages. I notice you're considering Port Darwin in doubt and I've got Nhulunbuy, so going by past practice we should probably include them both. Frickeg (talk) 13:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we have to include Nhulunbuy because it was really only Antony's educated guesses (there's no 2CP count there yet). The Port Darwin reticence was a bit odd but the lead is only 191 in raw votes so I guess it could be turned around. The thing about Daly is that it still seems to be under 50% reporting; I dithered about counting it as in doubt but went with what seems to be the consensus. Frickeg (talk) 13:14, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yikes!! Although, just quietly, we had missed a few in the federal lists as well when I did them for the election (John Murphy, Sophie Mirabella - people who were in doubt on election night 2013 and then we forgot to go back and fix them up after the seats were declared). Frickeg (talk) 13:17, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016
Your recent editing history at Safe Schools Coalition Australia shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:40, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Shearers' Strike Camp Site, Barcaldine
If you have some spare time, could you take a look over my latest QHR article, which relates to the 1891 Australian shearers' strike. There are a number of early unions and labour organisations mentioned, which I have mostly left red-linked as I am unsure if we have any articles on them or that they might be meaningfully redirected to. I think your knowledge of the union/labour movement is far better than mine. Thanks for any help you can give here. Kerry (talk) 22:13, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * No urgency. Where to next? Come to the Sunshine State! Kerry (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Mass categorisation
Sure - happy to do so.

I'm not entirely convinced myself about some of the "20th-century people" categories, but it seems that's the way things are going. Besides, there are others on which I'd rather pick the battles that the ones involving politicians, as I can see some use there, at least in the abstract.

Happy editing, and keep up the good work! -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:35, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I turned it off a while ago - sorry about that. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:28, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Suggest this is another vote for paraphrasing
| Safe Schools B20097 (talk) 05:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Mass categorisation and watchlists
One way to better manage mass changes is to sign up to email watchlist notifications (Preferences > User Profile and scroll to the very bottom, dunno why it isn't on Preferences > Watchlists as you might expect). I then have a message rule to dump these notification messages into a particular email folder which I examine at my leisure (but usually each day when I "do my watchlist"). If I see a mass categorisation (or other mass activity) that doesn't seem problematic, I simply select all the emails related to that user or that edit summary (as appropriate) and delete them as a group and then pop over to my Watchlist on-wiki and click "Mark all pages as visited" (as email notifications happen only on the first change after your last visit to the page, so you need to reset things -- this is the only trap to watch out for). I find email notifications make me much more efficient and effective with managing my watchlist. And, having it all in a separate folder means I can ignore it when I am trying to focus, or look at it when I feel in the mood for it. It also means if I see something a bit problematic that I don't want to immediately deal with (usually because I don't want to discourage a new good-faith editor or it involves an editor with whom I might be having a less-than-harmonious discussion about another unrelated article), I can leave the email in the folder to remind me to come back and revisit it in a week or two or whenever it seems appropriate. I know a lot of people don't know about the email option (probably because it's not in Preferences > Watchlist) so I thought I would mention it in case it solved a problem for you. Kerry (talk) 09:54, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It also allows me to maintain discipline in keeping my watchlist small enough to be manageable (mine's a bit over 10K) and helps me control my focus (currently summarised as Queensland, minus current politics and sport, plus a few pet topics, e.g. Nevil Shute). I'd rather do a consistent job of watching those articles in which I am "invested" through my time and effort rather than do a half-arsed job of watching too many articles). When I get a notification about something I have edited but outside my focus, I unwatch it. So, yes, you may find yourself doing a bit of unwatching at the start but it does settle down. But maybe it just reflects my control freak personality type :-) Kerry (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Merging QHR content with existing articles
As an example of this see Ayr State High School. I am not sure I like it that way, two infoxes etc, but seeking your feedback on this difficult question of when to merge, when to create a separate article (appropriately named) or when to just forget about the QHR text. Kerry (talk) 07:36, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes to pretty much all you said. Over the years I've heard there is a way to merge infoboxes, but I've never seen it. So I left them as the two independent infoboxes in case we decided to split it out again. Re: Ayr State High School I'd have liked to have placed the QHR history section forward before the current-use sections (which are a bit lame). But it's an article with a long edit-history so I was concerned I might get push-back over incorporating large slabs of QHR content in any form, let alone putting large chunks of it in pole position, so I felt what I did was more diplomatic wrt to past contributors. Of course, I have been the major contributor to a number of pre-existing QHR articles (before getting my hands of the CC-BY text), so I am happy to be more ruthless in what I do to those! I'm about to head off on a cruise where my access to the internet will be measured in gadzillions dollars per MB via satellite, so I'll be off-wiki until November, so no immediate miracles to be expected on some of these topics. Kerry (talk) 10:27, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Unhelpful comments on SSCA discussion
Having asked for help with an article dispute, please don't then make snide comments about the editors who try to help. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Your email
A few months ago I would have, but being a gay man myself, I came to the conclusion that it was best for my time and mental health that from that point on, I avoid the article. Not to mention, considering plenty of users know i'm gay, I have no doubt that if I did continue, at some point, being gay would be used against me and would be the target of accusations of bias. I would strongly recommend you post something at Australian Wikipedians' notice board, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics, and perhaps even create an RfC. I am very much against those who seek to degrade the article and very much wish for you to get as many eyes on it as possible, but I no longer wish to be an active part of it. If there's any support/oppose discussions I very much request you to alert me to them as i'm happy to add my 2c there, but that's about it. All the best to you and this difficult area. Timeshift (talk) 07:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

District Council of Barmera
Hi, thanks for your comments on my page under the heading 'Canunda'. I just added a 'start' class article to District Council of Barmera. If you wish to reply, please do so here as I don't want you to keep adding stuff to 'Canunda'. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:31, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Please
Royal Commissions go way back - if you create a list like that you will need to put in process or whatever the templates are while you are adding JarrahTree 10:41, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Myer Centre, Adelaide
The notability template was intended as genuine and not vandalism. In my opinion there is no harm to keep the template there until notability has been established as this article has no evidence of it. Seeing you are adamant it is a notable topic I suggest you could make some improvements to the article yourself and avoid an AFD.Ajf773 (talk) 07:03, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * it seems to me somewhat disingenuous to remove the claim of notability as it was unsourced, and then tag the article as not claiming notability in the same edit. I have now reinstated that it is the largest Myer and the largest retail centre in the CBD, with a reference. --Scott Davis Talk 13:47, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding the link to Dazzeland. After a bit of searching, it seems there's a good mix of spelling as "Dazzleland" and "Dazzeland", but the photos seem to be consistent of the latter form, eg in the video and sign in and staff uniforms in the picture at . --Scott Davis Talk 22:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Satisfied with those edits that it's certainly a notable place. And I understand your point of view.Ajf773 (talk) 05:53, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Talkback
--Cameron11598 (Talk) 15:34, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Newspapers.com
Your account on newspapers.com is now active. Happy editing! --Cameron11598 (Talk) 22:25, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ugh, really? That is such a bummer. I guess I won't bother then. So many times when I've been researching for bios, this has come up with something that would be perfect but I can't see it. Sometimes there's a little text reader thing which is better than nothing, but still, this would've been great. Oh well. Thanks for letting me know! Frickeg (talk) 12:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I've not been on SMH through the NLA - I'll have to have a look and see if I can make any sense of it. Frickeg (talk) 13:04, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * As an aside, I often think about how nice it would be to be able to watchlist an editor. I realise this would create all sorts of wikihounding problems in more contentious areas, but since I'm pretty much always interested in the pages/AfDs/etc. you edit (not to mention create), it would be so helpful not to have to go to contribs all the time! (Basically, this is a thanks for picking up on things like that elections page AfD, which I might never have otherwise seen.) Frickeg (talk) 04:24, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Liberal Party (1922)
Honestly I think I just pulled it together from the not very much info we had at the time - we knew it existed and needed a place for the links to go. From what you've got there I'd hazard a guess that maybe the state organisation might have been part of the "splinter"? And that seems like Livingston was an actual Liberal too, which we haven't got anywhere. In fact from looking around it seems like the "Nationalists" weren't too keen on the Liberal Union at all - |||l-year=1922 here's defeated Adelaide MP Reginald Blundell laying into Premier Barwell. Ah, here we go: William Story |||l-year=1922 laying into the Liberal Union for being the only non-Labor party in Australia not to join the Nationalists. Story actually explains the whole thing pretty well, although we probably want someone from the Liberals telling their side of the story too. Frickeg (talk) 23:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Marwick
This is rather fascinating - as with you all the Trove evidence I could find says he was endorsed CP, but somehow both Psephos and the Biographical Dictionary of the Senate have the idea that he's an independent. I think the original error might be Hughes & Graham - my notes have them listing him as Ind CP in 1943. Pretty rubbish of the Senate biographical dictionary not to pick that up, though, even if it was published pre-Trove. Frickeg (talk) 06:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Synod of South Australia
Thank you for your encouragement to continue developing this article. It is now at Draft:Synod of South Australia, and I'd like someone else's (e.g. your) opinion of whether it is suitable to move to proper article-space. There are still two people missing from the list of past moderators as I haven't found an online source for who they were, and will have to try for offline sources through the week. I'm not sure what other kinds of things should be included in this article. If I start articles for the other synods of the UCA, my stubs are likely to be much shorter. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 12:06, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Sophie Mirabella revert
Hi Drover's Wife

Why did you revert my edit on Sophie Mirabella? The subsection I deleted was an exact copy of a sentence from the lead. Additionally, it used the phrasing "Ms Rinehart" as the source did, which does not explain that it is Gina Rinehart (as this article lacks the headline that source has) and is against WP:SURNAME by using "Ms". Finally, it doesn't accurately convey the job description/title presented in that source. I fixed these issues in the appearance of that sentence in the lead, and then when I saw the sentence again I saw no reason for it to be there, especially as it is a subsection about "Life after politics" within a section called "Political career", so it doesn't really fit. And the rest of the edit was just consolidating repeated sources and giving them better formatting.

Is there something I'm missing as to why you'd revert that? Unless I just missed it, I can't see an explanation provided.

BreakfastJr (talk) 00:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've moved the sentence from the lede to the final section, so that it's not repeated and so that the flawed version of the sentence is not there, and I've returned the fixes to the reference formatting. Is that a change you support?


 * Incidentally, I feel that it would be more productive if you made the specific changes you wanted, rather than a full revert (as that undoes useful changes, such as in this case the changes to the reference formatting), and/or explained in an edit summary or talk page message what precisely you see as unhelpful or needing improvement. Otherwise it's harder to know how to collaborate to improve the articles in question. BreakfastJr (talk) 06:42, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

New Farm Cinemas
I thought you might like to have a look at it given your concerns that the description section (taken from the Queensland Heritage Register) reflected the former Village Twin Cinemas and didn't reflect the current New Farm cinemas. I simply finessed the issue by making the Description heading specific to the Village Twin Cinema era and added a new (empty) description section for the New Farm era (with an abbreviated version of your tag). While it doesn't solve the problem of not having a good description of the current building, it does solve the problem of the description text being out of date. Better? Kerry (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I dunno if the QHR entry will be updated at any time. Perhaps they will de-list it or restrict the heritage component to a subset of the current cinema. I think I might reword the lede to make it clear that the New Farm Cinema itself doesn't have heritage-listing but contains components of the heritage-listed former Village Twin. Kerry (talk) 21:36, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Large scale deletion of content to dispute only a small amount
In relation to the new article on Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975, it would have been better if you had not deleted 911 characters without any explanation and then returned and deleted a further 3,784 etc‎ all because you disagreed with only about 60-odd characters. However, now that you have provided your actual objections, I have responded on the talk page and removed some of the material, as, although it is accurate, I don't think it is vital that it remains in that place. Hopefully the spirit going forward can be more co-operative. Cheers, Observoz (talk) 23:47, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Ballarat University
Hi,

I just saw your posting for the move, which makes sense. I was just there because I wanted to post a technical move to merge the history of Draft:Ballarat University to Ballarat University, as discussed on Talk:Ballarat University.

I posted a message with this edit on the Requested moves page. But, I'm not sure if that's right. If I click on discuss, that seems to make a message that I'm contesting the move, and I'm not.

Do you know what the right thing to do is? Thanks so much!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:46, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Potential article
Hi. our discussion about Apoinga led me to consider an article about the German schools that were closed during World War I. I was surprised to see the list in the news article you cited in one of your new articles. I have created User:ScottDavis/German schools in South Australia to see what I could write. I'm not wedded to the title, but figure that an article like this could be linked from the places that mention a former school that closed in 1917. What do you think? --Scott Davis Talk 13:45, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It could also be linked from Anti-German sentiment. Kerry (talk) 02:53, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Zhenya Wang and the Liberals
Not for want of trying, I can't find any reference on Twitter or Google News to Zhenya/Dio Wang joining the Liberal Party. Do you know which West Australian journo it was who confirmed it? --Canley (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks heaps, I couldn't find it because I was searching Twitter for "Wang" and "Liberal"/"Liberals", not "LiberalsWA"! --Canley (talk) 05:37, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Unhelpful?
OK, I'll take the bait and bite. Why are these two edits, &, "unhelpful"? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:28, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You've redlinked the council ward (which will never be notable enough for an article, most locality articles don't even mention the council ward), without even mentioning the council, implying that the ward is the council (and also implying that the author doesn't know the difference). And, as ever, it should give you pause that your response to that was to go ballistic instead of to notice the obvious that you apparently didn't the first time. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:41, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't done anything of the sort! Maybe you should pull you head in, learn some manners, and apologise? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:46, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Ha. You're one to talk about manners. You get what you give. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:48, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Pardon? I have NO idea what you're on about. Explain yourself please. Pdfpdf (talk)
 * ...do you have any idea whatsoever how you come across to people? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:00, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Dude, you're phenomenally rude to people in almost literally every interaction, and to add to that most of your edits are pretty bizarre (as with the message that prompted this discussion). This is not something that elicits sympathy in the people you talk to. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:02, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It may interest you to know that when you start insulting me, I get 2 or 3 emails from other wikipedians telling me that you are "snappy" and that I should be careful of you. To be perfectly honest with you, I couldn't care less what you think of me. When I politely ask you a question, like I did this time, I would like you politely to answer the question. No-one needs all the histrionics that you've added.
 * Just answer the question that was asked, please. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:20, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Kat Blaque
Pinging you since your latest edit was reverted. I can't deal with this kind of talk right now. If you can, have at it. Funcrunch (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Red links
There are inbound links to both Nunawading Province state by-election, 1985 and Nunawading Province by-election, 1985 but I have no idea how to write the article to make one a redirect to the other, nor which name is "correct". Just bringing it to your attention... ;-) --Scott Davis Talk 12:50, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I have created Nunawading Province state by-election, 1985 with redirects fom the other titles I found for red links to the same event. You are welcome to improve the content now. I didn't find full distribution of preferences, and I don't know if it should be counted as "Liberal hold" or "Liberal gain" as it was sort-of-held by ALP between the general election and the court of disputed returns ruling, but I don't think Bob Ives sat in parliament in that time. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 01:01, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Adem Somyurek
Hi, I noticed that you reverted my move of the page Adem Somyürek to Adem Somyurek. Do you actually think that the page name with the ü is better? Will you object if I make the request on WP:RM? Orthogonal1 (talk) 09:29, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Federal politicians
I owe you something of an apology here, having suggested I could help with this project and so comprehensively failing to do so. I have hopes of being able to contribute something this year but in the meantime I have been greatly enjoying your work on the subject!

(On an unrelated topic - can I please ask that you archive your talk page? I'm getting serious lag typing this and it seems not to be displaying the usual "add topic" functionality or allowing the little edit buttons for individual headings.) Frickeg (talk) 03:55, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Inappropriate revert of article 2017 Melbourne car attack
Removing a tag without actually proving a citation for the claim in question is not responsible editing, especially where there is a section in the article's talk page discussion the need for citation in the article. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and statements made in articles must be verifiable facts. If you feel that the statement in question should not need a citation, then please present a case in the article's talk page. 124.150.31.252 (talk) 12:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC)