User talk:Tomwsulcer/Archive 8

Lori St John also Lori Urs
To tonwsulcer

In response to your comments and changes you have changed the article from a professional one to one of "junk", in bad shape, as you say. Indeed there are numerous sources which support my first article, of which you have made a sensational one of low character with false statements in it, relying solely on a statement that you read somewhere that is not supported by fact or false in nature.

Professional you are correct; Ms St John's efforts of advocacy led to the case becoming an international matter of foreign policy. Her efforts galvanized worldwide support, including Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa and both the Italian and European Parliaments. You mention the City of Palermo only but her support in Italy came from Rome, Umbria, Sicily, Milan and several regions of Italy. That too is misleading. She is not an activist but an advocate, and she is also not an anti-death penalty advocate but an advocate against wrongful convictions. The incident with Nutter is not a "death row type" but rather an unfortunate incident that occurred as a result of her having worked to advocate for justice for O'Dell. She did not live with Nutter, nor did she have a relationship with him. Not everything you read in the papers is true, as you know.

False statements in your article, of which you got from a newspaper or two:

Lori St John never went to Boston University Law School. Lori's spouse was Joe O"Dell- The marriage between her and O'Dell was for a "Social cause" and was annulled as such by a judge, therefore it never existed and must be removed. If mentioned at all it should be mentioned in the context of its occurrence, in her desire to prove they executed an innocent man she had to obtain the evidence for posthumous testing- you yourself have seen that comment in the papers. The words chosen to describe her role are not worthy of Ms. St John as a notable figure and spin the person in a negative light. Why would you mention a marriage being officiated behind bars and not mention her tour of Italy, her private meeting with the Pope or phone call from Mother Teresa, who invited her to Calcutta to stay with her? Her visit in the President's office in Italy etc.?

Your last statement regarding living with Nutter is also untrue as is "accused in multiples instances of holding her daughter hostage". Your inclusion of an underage victim, even without naming her, is appalling and not of place in this article.

Finally, her role as the founder and director of the Innocence Project, her law review article and awards and acknowledgments are all part of what make Lori St John notable. She is not notable for marrying Joe O'Dell, or the consequences of her advocacy, which led her to be a victim herself.

Lori St John is a professional woman, not an activist, an advocate against wrongful convictions, not against the death penalty, which she has been known to correct people when an interviewer refers to her in that way.

The prior material, all supported by fact, and of which I originally had on wp, and which makes Ms St John notable person, must be included in this article to portray her as the person she is, and not what you singlehandedly changed to appear as a sensational piece instead.

All of my statements in the article are supported by facts and sources, the ones you claim are opinion, subjective comments that have no place on wiki.

Thank you.

Respectfully, Galaxygirl0505 (talk) 21:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Galaxygirl0505, the article which you wrote here was nominated for deletion. It contained much original research and assertions unsupported by reliable sources. I improved the article here. My version is LIKELY TO STAY in Wikipedia. I have a long track record in Wikipedia, I have much experience rescuing articles. I know what I am doing here. There are rules to follow, procedures to learn: I know them. You do not. "References" which you listed sometimes result in dead links. Things which you think are "notable" such as her awards look like cruft. Tell you what: reinstate your version of the article and in a week it will be gone in Wikipedia. About details about Boston University, yes I noticed a discrepancy with New England School of Law; another site suggested she did not have a law degree at all. About calling her an "activist" or "advocate", well, that is up for debate. Nobody cares that "Her mother was a costume designer for the Hartford Ballet Company" like you wrote: total unnotable junk. Using Lori St John's bio as a so-called reference is amateurish. This whole paragraph which you wrote: St John was featured in the book 24 Hours in Cyberspace[18] for her work in the Joseph O’Dell case. Having created an online web page to gain exposure and worldwide support for Joseph O’Dell (1995) she captured the attention of Rick Smolan, the best-selling author of the Day in the Life Series. 24 Hours in Cyberspace is a live publishing event that took place February 8, 1996 across the world. It featured 200 (of the over 200,000 taken that day) of the most compelling photos and heartwarming stories captured by over 150 professional photographers. It was introduced by then Vice President Al Gore. [19]A photographic exhibition was unveiled at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History on January 23, 1997, featuring 70 photos from the project, of which Lori St John was included. The exhibit is "now included in an historic collection which includes the original Star-Spangled Banner and the slippers worn by Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz." -- junk. Trust me. If you want the article to survive deletion, leave it as it is, and after it passes, feel free to muck it up again. Respectfully.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Note will copy to talk page of Lori St John where this belongs.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks! Much appreciated after my contributions were savaged by the IP who created the article!--Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:03, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

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FYI
Hello T. I just saw your edit here and I wanted to let you know that you don't need to use the ping on the talk page of the person that you are leaving a message for. The get notified automatically through the "You have a new message" orange bar. Pinging is used for letting an editor know when you mention them on any talk page that isn't theirs. Now there is nothing wrong with using the ping but you can avoid dealing with the template if you want to. Cheers. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 00:35, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks, . :)--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:38, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You are welcome. Enjoy the week ahead. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 00:40, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

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Janis Maria Wilson
Hello, you are editing about Janis Wilson. Some of the articles you have added as the refrences are not correct. Or you did not undertsand correct. She never posed nude for the Playboy Magazine. And she didnt have to claim that she did not use the drugs. She tried to defent that not all models and acress and famous people use drugs in that business. Everyone know that she was not using any drugs, but a lot of people in her "business-models ets" are using drugs, so the journalist asked her what she thing about that some is using it. The articel is about that she is the proof that not all models are the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilipsTee (talk • contribs) 16:46, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks like you, too, PhilipsTee, are editing Janis Wilson, like when you removed a source and removed the shopkeepers account of the Alanya dust-up and removed the statement about Wilson claiming not to have used drugs. Further, it looks like you are new to Wikipedia and have only edited the Janis Wilson article. This happens when people are trying to push agendas.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:08, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello, that's correct. You have done a good job!--comment added by PhilipsTee (talk

Photo
I'm trying to learn, and I want to write or add a photo to Virgin Mary this article. I have been there, and I have seen the "wishing wall". I have also seen photos from the wishing wall, and I think I saw it commons wiki. But I dont know how to insert the photo. Maybe you can help with that also. You are very quick and very profesionall editor. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilipsTee (talk • contribs) 20:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)  is the photo i found, and i think it should be on wikipedia. what do you think?--PhilipsTee Hello, I'm not sure where to answer you... That's correct, I'm new. You have done a good job! I'm trying to learn, and I want to write or add a photo to Virgin Mary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_the_Virgin_Mary. I have been there, and I have seen the "wishing wall". I have also seen photos from the wishing wall, and I think I saw it commons wiki. But I dont know how to insert the photo. Maybe you can help with that also. You are very quick and very profesionall editor. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilipsTee (talk • contribs) 20:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC). Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilipsTee (talk • contribs) 20:38, 29 August 2015 (UTC)  Hello again, the photo is now in the article (Virgin Mary), but can you please help me moving it up ONE STEP? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilipsTee (talk • contribs) 20:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Simply move the photo higher in the article. Good luck.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:23, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Janis Maria Wilson
Hello, I read the article #1, and thats why I wrote the things I wrote. In the first article you set as refrences the girl says: "Jeg gikk tegning, form og farge på videregående" That means "I studied art school in upper secundary high school". To achieve college admission certification, you have to have math and english in Norway. And later the article learned us: "For et drøyt år siden forlot hun dølabyen for å ta fatt på studier i markedsføring og økonomi ved BI i Oslo." Means: One year ago, she moved to Oslo to study at BI Business School. And since she was 20 then, thats why I wrote that she moved to Oslo in 2005.

And I added Vi Menn on magazines, because: "I april var 21-åringen på forsiden av Vi Menn" Means: In april the 21 year old girl was on the cover of Vi Menn.


 * I don't think that I did something wrong, or wrote something wrong. I'm sorry if I did something that was not correct, I just edited the article after reading the first refrence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nilserik bærum (talk • contribs) 00:18, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The article Janis Maria Wilson has been changed numerous times, possibly by sockpuppets, probably by promoters or others with a conflict of interest, that it makes sense to leave the article as it is for a while, after I revamped it to save it from deletion, and on a subject where a whole slew of supposedly new contributors keep springing up out of the woodwork. About your points above: is it important that JMW studied art in secondary school? Or at what age she went to business school? Adding irrelevant immaterial content to lengthen the article is a good way to again bring it up for deletion review. My advice: please leave the article alone for the time being, thank you.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

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TFAR
Today's featured article/requests/Geology Hall 2 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

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Professional Page Edits
Stop deleting my edits for Paula Franzese's page. The sources are reputable sources, and are not self-promotion because when someone wins an award, it becomes a fact that they have won an award. Many people have won an award, and such information becomes public knowledge as reported by verifiable journalistic websites. Also, do not touch the personal life section--you could have no knowledge of her personal life except through the source cited. There is no problem with the sourcing because they are verifiable links to websites where information can be found. Chesshti (talk) 13:55, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm copying this to the Paula Franzese talk page and will continue the discussion there where it belongs.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:25, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

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Deletion of page Tatiana Shamratova
Dear Sir/Mra, Could you please specify witch sources you are considering as reliable ? Tatiana has worked as a model for many companies worldwide. If you can check acquitted web sites you can fined her Photos there. We are also providing Wiki with some articles (in Russian and in English) about her life and carrier. What should we do in additional, if I can ask you please ? Regards, Sergi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.18.22.218 (talk) 14:30, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Which article are you talking about? Did you spell the name Tatiana correctly?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:35, 20 October 2015 (UTC) Oh, I see this one. If you can find sources that meet the reliable sources criteria that show that she meets the general notability guideline it may be possible to refloat her article.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:38, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

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A cup of tea for you!

 * Thanks, .--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

FYI
A page whose deletion discussion you participated in was re-added and nominated for deletion again. See: WP:Articles_for_deletion/Karen_Franklin_(2nd_nomination) Barcaboy2 (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Karen Franklin


A tag has been placed on Karen Franklin, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:43, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Space travel
Hello, Tomwsulcer! I thought I‘d follow up here … I’m not sure what article’s talk page would be most appropriate for discussion of future space travel, but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be about any individual star. I just wanted to mention that the special theory of relativity shows how fairly long-distance space travel is possible without exceeding the speed of light, because the effect of relativistic time dilation is to shorten the trip from the astronauts’ POV. There’s an interesting thought-experiment on the Usenet Physics FAQ called “The Relativistic Rocket”. This postulates a spacecraft that can accelerate indefinitely at a constant rate of one gee—nowhere near practicable with current technology, and requiring enormous amounts of energy among other problems, but it doesn’t contradict the laws of physics as presently understood. The idea is to accelerate until halfway to the destination, then turn around and decelerate the rest of the way so as to arrive at a slow speed. During the flight the astronauts would experience normal gravity because of the acceleration (except during the mid-flight turnaround manoeuvres, when they would be weightless). According to the equations in the FAQ, a round trip to Betelgeuse, given the 640-LY distance, would take somewhat more than 25 years (as shown on the ship’s clock). The peak speed (reached at the midpoint of each flight, once each way) would be about 99.9995% the speed of light. On returning home the travellers would find that about 1284 years of Earth time had elapsed since they left.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  01:55, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks! Wow, much like the movie Planet of the Apes, where long distance space travel means vastly different rates of ageing. On a spaceship to Betelgeuse, taking 25 years, it might get unbearable when the kids in the back start asking "are we there yet?" In my book, I use several convenient fictions -- the aliens can manipulate gravity with a wand (so they can give the floor of a spaceship normal gravity, say, so they can walk like they're on Earth.) Stuff like this was never explained in the Star Trek or Star Wars series -- how people could walk about normally on spaceships. In my book, for purposes of fiction and storytelling, I totally dismiss the spacetime stuff -- like it's back to Newtonian time, so the time on a planet orbiting Betelgeuse is the same as Earth, and there are no time distortions. All of this stuff simplifies the hard reality of vast distances, spacetime, laws of physics. It is good to know the real stuff to try to bring in an element of authenticity. But in real life, it would be cool to travel to distant galaxies, if the technology ever gets good enough, and is relatively safe -- it would be fun to explore the universe, and maybe your method of the 1g acceleration, flip over, deceleration -- maybe that is a way to do that.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:20, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Louisiana Lightning page
Can you please help me with the Louisiana Lightning page? I do not understand why it is deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix25782000 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Please understand I am busy in real life with multiple projects and probably can't get around to it for a while. I do not get paid for my Wikipedia contributions. If the article is simply about a beer or a brewery, it doesn't seem like a subject that can hold my attention.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:08, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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So, we meet again, eh?
You may wish to consider adding WP:WikiProject_World%27s_Oldest_People/Article_alerts to your watchlist. EEng (talk) 19:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Louisiana Lightning page
About 11 months ago a page that I created, Louisiana Lightning, was contested and deleted for not enough information.

You wrote the following on the deletion page:

Wikipedia has rules regarding sources, verifiability, noteworthiness, not misusing references as spam links, and so forth, which take time to learn. My suggestion is copy-paste the existing article to your computer, learn Wikipedia's rules, then in six months maybe after the article gets deleted, you'll know how to float one which meets Wikipedia's standards? One of the rules to learn is that every business, or every distiller, deserves some kind of article because it is a distiller, or because other distilleries have articles. My guess is not all distilleries have articles about them.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:28, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I took you advice and waited and learned how to write a better encyclopedia article. I used 22 external links to cite my article and it was still speedily deleted. I am trying to do things the proper way. Can you help me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix25782000 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I wrote that "every business... deserves some kind of article"? If so I was mistaken. What is Louisiana Lightning? The name of a distillery? Sports team? Can you paste on my page the article that you wrote?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, you wrote that at Articles for deletion/Louisiana Lightning. To an experienced editor, it was totally obvious that must have been a typo for something like "not every business... deserves some kind of article", but unfortunately Phoenix25782000, being a new editor, evidently assumed you meant what you wrote. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:48, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * You are not alone. I am also confused about wiki-deletion-rules which have become extremely convoluted over the years and as such, in my opinion, are easily manipulated by those who have agendas that may not agree with the spirit of said rules. Just my $.02. Ottawahitech (talk) 19:23, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Ice Bath
Sorry just getting used to editing Wikipedia - didn't mean to change the text.

I think generally the page needs to be rewritten to lift it to a new level - pretty difficult to edit it and arrive at something satisfactory.

The overriding issue is the repeated use of general media as reference points rather than peer reviewed journals.

CEdgar121 (talk) 15:09, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Dorothy W Sulcer
Dorothy W Sulcer - You have posted a picture of her from the 1950s. She is a life member of the Art Students League of NY, Recently her address was changed, we are trying to determine where to send the mail from us that she usually receives. I am the Membership Manager for the League. xellis@artstudentsleague.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.176.29.114 (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * My mom passed away December 2015 but she loved being part of the Art Students League.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:40, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library: Alexander Street Press

 * Thanks. I'll try to learn how to use it somehow to include in my contributions.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:30, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Still, I went on the Alexander Street website and was unable to login, and it will help if I can use google to search the site using my parameters otherwise I may probably never use it.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:56, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Tomwsulcer. Now that you have returned the Google Form I have to wait for Alexander Street to set you up with a username and password to access your account over there. It takes a wee bit of time. Hang in there. Cheers!  09:17, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok Checkingfax thanks and I'll try to build A-S into my routine but no promises.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Jonathan Klein (Dog trainer)
Hello Tomwsulcer,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Jonathan Klein (Dog trainer) for deletion, because it seems to be promotional, rather than an encyclopedia article.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. ubiquity (talk) 15:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Seriously? No doubt in my mind the subject is notable.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

June 15: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Re: Robin Tanner
Thank you for starting this article. I hope you don't mind, but I added the article to Wiki Loves Pride 2016/Results, which tracks new and improved LGBT-related content as part of an ongoing Wiki Loves Pride campaign. If you create or improve other LGBT articles between now and the end of June, feel free to update this page with your contributions. Thanks again! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I contribute to articles on everybody notable, I have no particular agenda regarding LGBT but good luck with your project.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem, was just an FYI in case you happened to create any others. Thanks again for contributing to Wikipedia. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 06:53, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Judging by your user page, it looks like you're an impressive contributor, so maybe I should be thanking you for your contributions to Wikipedia.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 09:56, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Clicker Training And Punishment
Regarding your inability to see that punishment is used in clicker training. Actually punishment is in use in every method of dog training that exists. Your inability to see this is not unusual.

Let's review the basics of OC, Operant conditioning. (Here paraphrased from Skinner).
 * If something is added to the situation, it said to be POSITIVE, abbreviated with a (+)
 * If something is removed from the situation, it is said to be NEGATIVE, abbreviated with a (-).
 * REINFORCEMENT is something that will tend to make a behavior repeat.
 * PUNISHMENT is something that will tend to make a behavior NOT repeat.

And so we get four quadrants of OC.
 * +R where something is added to the situation that will tend to make a behavior repeat.
 * -R where something is removed from the situation that will tend to make a behavior repeat.
 * +P where something is added to the situation that will tend to make a behavior not repeat.
 * -P where something is removed from the situation that will tend to make a behavior not repeat

Extinction is part of OC and I'll discuss it towards the end of this.

Some trainers, Karen Pryor among them, have perverted the use of these terms. That perversion is responsible for a great deal of confusion in the dog training world, particularly among those who practice clicker training and/or claim that they are "purely positive."

Ms. Pryor discusses this in her "Don't Shoot The Dog!" She writes, "I must apologize to any professional behaviorists who are annoyed at my cavalier use of the vocabulary of reinforcement theory. ... I have sacrificed technical precision in favor of a vocabulary I think people can understand."

I guess Ms. Pryor thought that people who read her book were too stupid to learn the terms of OC. I don't agree.

What she did was to change the term "positive" to mean something that the dog would like. She changed the term "negative" to mean something that the dog would not like. Neither of these terms, used like this, have anything to do with OC but it has caused much confusion among lay people who think that it does. They hear "negative" training and think it has something to do with something that the dog doesn't like. They don't understand that it has to do with removing something from the situation. They'll bounce back and forth between trying to sound scientific and talking gibberish.

To compound this, trainers who claim to be "Pure Positive" have successfully demonized the word "punishment" to mean, as you wrote in one of your messages on the Talk:Dog Training Page, "most readers will think of punishment in terms of hitting or scolding or a loud negative sound, not simply withholding a treat. "

Those things MAY or may not be punishment. It depends on the dog, how he perceives those things and most importantly their effect on the behavior. If it tends to make the behavior not repeat, they are punishment. If it tends to make the behavior repeat, and it's rare but it's the case with some dogs, with some of these things, it's reinforcement.

But the true meaning of "punishment" in the scientific sense of OC has not changed one bit. I find it hilarious that these trainers tell their clients, as a selling point, that their training is based on science, as if other training methods were not. But then they try to pass off, as you did, improper definitions of the terms used in OC.

If (for example − we're talking about training a dog to sit) and he does not obey the command, withholding the treat will have the effect of tending to make the behavior of NOT sitting on command, not happen again. It's –P, negative punishment, the removal of the treat from the situation. Please note that the word "PUNISHMENT" is right there in front of you.

A NRM (No Reward Marker) used by many clicker trainers (I don't know if Mr. Klein uses them, but it's immaterial) is intended to let the dog know that he's not going to get a reinforcement, a reward. A trainer says "sit" but the dog does not sit. The trainer says, "wrong," makes a noise or otherwise lets the dog know that he's not getting the reinforcement. That will tend to make the behavior of not sitting, not repeat. That is +P, positive punishment. Something is added to the situation that will tend to make a behavior not repeat. A NRM is punishment. I don't give a damn if someone claims that it's not, it EXACTLY fits the definition of punishment and so it is punishment. Calling it something else, as some trainers do, to avoid using the word 'punishment,' does not change what just happened − punishment.

Earlier you referred me to Klein's website. There he simply does not address what he does if a trained dog that knows how to sit, refuses to do so. More than likely, he'll either give a NRM, which I just showed you is punishment, or he'll withhold the treat, which I've also just showed you is punishment.

The fact that the so−called pure positive trainers don't agree that they use punishment, means nothing. The definitions of OC are pretty much set in stone. If something tends to make a behavior not repeat, it's punishment. You can claim that "most readers will think of punishment in terms of hitting or scolding or a loud negative sound, not simply withholding a treat." all you want, but it doesn’t change the definitions of OC. If something is done that makes a behavior tend not to repeat, it's punishment.

But don't believe me, read what Karen Pryor has to say about this, "I have a video clip of a trainer ... working with a big yellow shelter dog that jumps up a lot. Twice, the dog offers a sit, and she clicks and treats. The third time, the dog sits, but the trainer waits a bit longer, and the dog jumps up on her. She folds her arms and turns her back. As she does that, the dog cringes backward to the floor, as if it had been struck.

"Was that "punishment"? To the trainer, no; she just briefly removed her attention and what's so bad about that? To the cowering dog, yes: that really hurt.

Punishers, like reinforcers, are defined by the receiver, not the giver."  Beanyandcecil (talk) 03:35, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm. First, this discussion referring to your changes on Dog training such as here belongs at the Dog training talk page so I'll copy your essay there. Second, this thinking strikes me as original research, shifting around the common understanding of the word punishment to mean, essentially, withdrawal of a treat or inattention (or folding arms). My understanding of the term 'punishment' is infliction of pain, like hitting or striking, or depriving of freedom (eg the convicts were locked in solitary confinement as a form of punishment), and extending the sense of punishment to mean "not giving a treat" is thoroughly dubious. Tell you what -- let's ask people who follow the article Clicker training and see what they think.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 09:52, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Summit Transfer Station Book Shed - Exterior Picture?
Hi Tom, I saw your great picture of the interior of the Summit Transfer station book shed - do you have a picture of the exterior? I am asking because I found some interesting books in the shed and want to post a picture to Facebook that includes an exterior shot of the shed. If you don't have one, I'll use the excellent interior shot you already uploaded to Wiki Commons - Thanks - a Summit Resident.JumpyGoat (talk) 14:17, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Is there any reason why you can't take the photo yourself?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:25, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your provision of sources at Articles for deletion/Rowena Sánchez Arrieta (2nd nomination), upon which I have based my withdrawal of the nomination. North America1000 20:16, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks too. I admire people who can change their minds. My first sweep had the middle name, and nothing came up; by accident, I removed her middle name and the sources emerged. Just luck I guess. Filipinos often have extra long names with many middle names.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:23, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks. I consider myself to be a pretty decent source searcher, but I did not find those sources. I'll keep in mind including searches omitting the middle name. North America1000 20:27, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If you like, feel free to use my sweeps -- (they may not all be up to date) but what I do, as you probably can guess, is type the search term in the google browser bar, then cut-and-paste one or more of these media filters. If it's a common name like say 'Patty Smith', I may add a few more terms to try to catch the right one. Lately I've just been using Google's 'News' filter with just the name.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:32, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. I have added it to WP:ADVANCED (diff), an essay I composed in July regarding source searching. North America1000 20:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * And thanks also for the link to WP:ADVANCED which I'll put on my user page.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:16, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Sharon Christian page
Hey! Thanks for your super-constructive feedback. I tried to take it to heart: check out the page and tell me what you think. I don't think there are any references there that are not "real"; I've removed any reference for which we don't have electronic copies to facilitate vetting. I'll keep hacking if you think it would help! Icareaboutart (talk) 00:38, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you being sarcastic? It might be too late to rescue your article. Once these AfDs get going, they have a logic of their own, like tumbling downhill fast. If the article gets deleted, write on my talk page in 6 months and we can see whether we might refloat it. Here are your good references: this one, this one (it's a newspaper), this one is only a mention (not sure whether to keep). Can you find any more? What I'd do -- include only those good references, and using the reference, write one innocuous sentence (no adjectives) summarizing what the reference says, followed by the reference. Then hunt for more references. And cross your fingers.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:53, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

JohnPackLambert
Given your comments on a recent afd you may be interested in this ANI discussion. Apologies if you've already seen it. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 01:25, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. I have mixed views on this. I think many of the beauty pageant articles do need to be deleted, since they only say that person X won such-and-such a pageant, but there are some notables in there, and I'd like JPL to be more open-minded, listening to others here, and doing some minimal source-checking beforehand.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 09:40, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I agree with you, most are good to be deleted. We just need time to work through the backlog and a promise to be more careful in future.  --- PageantUpdater (talk) 10:44, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

hello
Hi Tom I really like the way you are doing well. You are so ... I don't know what to say coz you inspired me!great job! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charmaine Loy (talk • contribs) 12:28, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I actually
... agree that Jytdog has an excessive medical bent. Its not only on the coregasm article. If you go back a few months on hi edits you notice this is a pattern repeating itself. I tried to get through to him but he seems dismissive of our concerns. His dismissiveness has made me consider whether he would be more willing to listen to a more senior editor than ourselves. Consequently I noticed someone opened a thread at AN/I on him for something unrelated, and thought maybe that was a venue where senior editors might be able to address this issue. Pwolit iets (talk) 17:35, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, yes, I agree, and thanks for your edits before, I suppose it happens that contributors wearing blinders get attracted to this place. But I'm thinking that the coregasm article will probably get merged into orgasm and then be watched over by even more editors with biomedical biases, so my thinking is simply wait and see. And that it's important to apportion our time and not get wrapped up in fruitless battling.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:49, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think waiting and seeing is an option. What if you create another article that is only slightly medical yet Jytdog decides to restart his purging spree to once again give that a medical slant. I assume you might reach that point where you'd get sick and tired of it. The more frustrating part is that Jytdog is a somewhat lazy editor and as such will not do the relevant citing himself. Sometimes content he deletes is easily verifiable with good sources. Pwolit iets (talk) 18:25, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. When I get to that point, I'll take it to ANI. If you take it to ANI let me know. In the meantime, there are better things for me to do than fuss with this contributor.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:56, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Unitarian Universalist Church of Kent Ohio for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Unitarian Universalist Church of Kent Ohio is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Unitarian Universalist Church of Kent Ohio until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. JonRidinger (talk) 05:09, 11 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Tomwsulcer, I am glad you are contributing to Wikipedia. I !voted "Keep" at Articles for deletion/Unitarian Universalist Church of Kent Ohio and I think you and I would tend to have similar views, broadly.
 * This is just meant as a friendly note: some number of other AFD regular editors have noticed the pattern and quality of deletion voting by the editor you criticize in that AFD.  Reputation does matter.  In this AFD I voted before they arrived, but I think in the past I have been concerned about that editor's AFD votes enough to check their contributions and follow them to other AFDs, where I voted opposite.  Possibly other regular AFD editors are doing that occasionally, or at least are certainly discounting the editor's comments strongly in AFDs.  So, you are sort of right about what you observe I think, without going into detail.  However, when I saw your comments I felt concern for you, along the lines of what another editor has now written there.  If you make outright statements like you did, negative about another editor and kind of unnecessary IMO, you will turn off many experienced editors.  You received a mild, polite comment this time (the comment that you end up proposing to agree to disagree about).  But as a word of advice, you need to read up on Wikipedia policy, guidelines, and essays on personal attacks, and moderate how you react with that editor at least.  The worst outcome would be for you to double down and insist on a right to dress down other editors a few times too many, in which case you could get dragged down yourself in ANI proceedings and arbitration or other processes.  I speak from some experience, as in the past others viewed me as being prone to make personal attacks (while a host of other shit was going on and IMO i was reasonably speaking up against worse matters, but nonetheless), and it hurt me that these others spoke against me or didn't speak for me, in the other matters, and I got treated badly, unfairly or fairly depending upon your point of view.
 * Again, you are right, reputation does matter, and from the outside it can seem obviously relevant to point out another editor's biases or past history etc. so that their view can properly be discounted in a discussion. But that ain't so, in the evolving culture of Wikipedia editing, or at least not the way you did it this time.  I do recommend you read the policies and guidelines, but this culture is not written down, cannot be kept updated in writing.  I just advise: try to fit in on this, try not to be extreme.  You might reasonably point out that others, me included, do make negative statements that would seem to violate the explicit policies, here and there.  But probably others can succeed in saying things because their wording is somewhat milder or more veiled or is located elsewhere (like at a user Talk page commenting about the AFD, not in the AFD itself) or is otherwise more indirect.  There are certainly gray areas, and the explicitly stated rules are not sufficient and are not strictly followed.  But you can get in trouble if you're out of sync.  And here you are out of sync, IMO.  I don't suggest you do anything now, just let it go, but be more careful next time.  Feel free to disregard everything I wrote here, besides the fact that I like your positive contributions. :) -- do  ncr  am  17:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, maybe you're right, maybe I'm too focused on winning the debate rather than contributing impartially. Thanks.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:53, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Hey, thanks!!!--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Scott Bullock
Would it please you to know that I am certain that Scott Bullock meets our general notability guideline, as well as our our guideline for biographies, and I have no desire to see it deleted? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 18:23, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You could demonstrate that by restoring much of the content that you deleted.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:37, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I could demonstrate that by writing it, which I have. You are free to quote me if an AfD somehow arises. So. Since that olive branch didn't stop your disruptive comments. What is your agenda? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:09, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * My agenda is to write fair impartial neutral verifiable Wikipedia articles. What's yours?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:04, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Same. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:56, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Saturday November 12: Women in Science Edit-a-thon @ NY Academy of Sciences (plus Sunday Indigenous People's Justice event)
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Dams in the Passaic


Wonder if you can help. One of the these pics is yours; the other a 1910 postcard. They don't appear to be the same place. Trying to find fotos for List of crossings of the Upper Passaic River and would really appreciate if you could/would:
 * identify location(s)
 * make or inform me of any corrections or ommisions/addtions needed for the list
 * take, upload, identify any fotos that might add to value of list article.

Maybe it same from what I can glean from this article in NT Times, 21 November 1909 which states dam created what was known as Page Lake and was destroyed by flood about a decade earlier:

ThanksDjflem (talk) 16:07, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for your good work on that list. When I get chances, I'll try to add photos when I can, nothing right away.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:06, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

December 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC (plus Wikipedia Day on Jan 15!)
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Julissa Sabino
She's a minor actress and isn't even in the same union as the Rockettes. It's in the AP article though so we're kind of stuck with it.The Rockettes are represented by American Guild of Variety Artists --Wlmg (talk) 21:58, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I bet they're being paid a s***load of money to perform, otherwise why would the Rockettes be doing it -- considering the long-term price they're bound to pay in the court of public opinion. An old Steve Martin joke about the Rockettes -- counting the breasts, 57 up there. Maybe there's an app depicting how much $$$ they'll get per leg lift.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:34, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Hee Hee the Martin joke was about the topless shows in Las Vegas, but I understand your meaning. Wlmg (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes it's kind of fitting that a pussy-grabber would have leg-lifting dancers tease him into office.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 16:09, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Imho the Rockettes are a racist anachronism despite allowing Rockette's of color in the late '80s there are not that many of them. Native New Yorkers do not go to Radio City Music hall. It's for visiting rubes. And btw the momentum of an eye-high kick coming down, according to my back-of-an-envelope calculation would break Trump's small hand if he ever tried anything. Wlmg (talk) 17:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Citation Removal: Search engine optimization
Hey there Tom!

I noticed that you removed the citation link I added to Search engine optimization and would like to follow up with you to inquire reinstatement, for the current link sends an error. The content on the page I suggested covers exactly what the old link discussed - parts of it verbatim. I have no intentions of placing a spammy link within a place which one could use as a resource, and I ensure that the information on the page is well researched.

I would like to at lease offer a working link to a positive source. Thanks for your time Tom!


 * Is this link here the one you're talking about? How does that add to Wikipedia?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:41, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Leonard Lance
Please use template:cite web. The ref on Leonard Lance is a bit cumbersome. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 01:44, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, will do, thanx.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 02:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Reference errors on 24 January
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Summit Downtown Historic District
Summit Downtown Historic District Any pictures? Thanks Djflem (talk) 07:31, 27 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Are you talking new pictures or old ones? I have uploaded numerous pictures of the downtown area, many of them are here. Do you need more images, if so, why?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:37, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Was this revert a mistake?
With this revert, did you mean to revert the editor before me rather than me? Your edit summary says "Need sources for this", but my edit was removing the recently added poorly sourced and unsourced information, not adding it.

If your revert was intentional, I think it was a violation of the arbitration remedies visible at the top of Talk:Protests against Donald Trump, which state "All editors must obtain consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion)." —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:32, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Yep, probably my mistake. I self-reverted, sorry.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:27, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Greyball
Thanks Tom, you've saved me a lot of research. This is Paul (talk) 13:43, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If you were writing the article at the same time as me, I hope I didn't pre-empt your effort.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * No worries, I hadn't made a start on it. This is Paul (talk) 17:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Why didst thou put back this seemingly biased bit when I removed it?
this, I'm not sure how it's not bias to have satire be on the front page of an encyclopedia article. However, if thou hast a good refutation, I will listen to it. Is it just Twinkle not working properly?--Jacob&#39;s Crackers (talk) 13:24, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Egads, forsooth. Why dost thou thinkest that such pieceth be-ith biased-eth justest becausest there is some satire ensconsed within it? The reference clearly refers to the Alice in Wonderland as an example of the philosophy behind redistribution and socialism. Here is whatst the source sayeth:--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:32, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * "Equality of outcome is a radically different concept. Equality of opportunity provides in a sense that all start the race of life at the same time. Equality of outcome attempts to ensure that everyone finishes at the same time. To slightly change what the Dodo said in Alice in Wonderland, "Everybody must win and all must have prizes". That is the goal of radical socialism. Everyone must be a winner, everyone must be equal. Socialists do not really point towards absolute equality but they point to vague ideas of fairness and justness."

- LJM Cooray


 * So, I honestly dost thinkest that the imageth dost deserveth to be in said article, but I will listeneth if you have an alternativeeth pointeth of view (or a more suitable image?).--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:31, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

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Joe Barton
With you deleted what I said on the Joe Barton talk page. I regard that as a violation of WP:TALKO. I object. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If so it was an accident. I added my comment, looked for your comment but couldn't find it, and didn't figure out what happened. Apologies.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Ben Jacobs
Regarding your of Ben Jacobs (journalist): The Jerusalem Post and Jewish Telegraphic Agency are respected news organizations and are reliable sources. This isn't WP:SYNTH or WP:FRINGE either. —Anomalocaris (talk) 06:36, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. What I am coming around to thinking is that religion had nothing to do with the initial assault -- but afterwards, given the corrosive political climate with Internet trolling and such, and neo-Nazi white supremacists and anti-semitism, that religion has become a factor (unfortunately) so yes, I'll reluctantly agree that this stuff should stay in (although I still feel the entire JTA article doesn't belong as a source in this).--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:40, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of April Wilkerson for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article April Wilkerson is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/April Wilkerson until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  DGG ( talk ) 16:46, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

September 27: WikiWednesday Salon / Wikimedia NYC Annual Meeting
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 * P.S. On the weekend before the annual meeting, you can join: Action=History @ Ace Hotel (Sunday, September 24, 2017)

Living persons
You probably should take some time and carefully review guidance at WP:BLP, because your edits are pretty clear violations, and look an awful lot like using Wikipedia as a political soapbox. BLP violations are to be removed immediately. They are not to remain and be discussed while they're on an article. G M G talk   10:49, 27 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Nonsense. The BLP guidelines are used to protect innocent people from spurious claims as you should well know. But when a prominent US politician RSC chair describes his female colleagues publicly as eye candy and the comment reverberates on the national and international news, then it needs to stay in.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The issue isn't so much what you're putting, but where. BLP actually has more to it than prohibiting unreferenced or poorly referenced negative information, though that's a substantial part of it. However, you seem deliberately to be giving this incident undue prominence, by placing it first in the lead section of the article about the individual with no backing text in the body (and the lead is far too prominent for a "current events" type story anyway), and then putting it in sexism. The scope of the sexism article would be all sexism, throughout recorded history and throughout the world. Prominently referencing a contemporary political kerfluffle is massively undue in that instance, the article should be addressing sexism in general terms, not being used as a "hall of shame" for individual instances. Please consider this a formal warning to abide by BLP in all its aspects going forward. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:42, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

October 18: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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 * Yes, thanks, fixed.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:06, 13 October 2017 (UTC)