Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 7

Regarding China Southern Airlines destinations
I saw these on the China Southern site, but I am not sure which cities they are supposed to be: WhisperToMe (talk) 18:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Huand Guo Shu (AFAIK it is a typo - it should be Huang Guo Shu)
 * Jiu Zhai Huang Long
 * Kenasi
 * Ying Chuan


 * Jiu Zhai Huang Long - sounds like some tourist trap in Jiuzhaigou.
 * Ying Chuan - Yinchuan, maybe?
 * -Миборовский (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Huangguoshu Waterfall: in Guizhou
 * Jiuzhaigou - Huanglong: an airport serving both scenic areas in Sichuan
 * 喀纳斯 - a scenic area in Burqin County, Altay Prefecture
 * Looks like Yinchuan. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, guys! WhisperToMe (talk) 03:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

New category, need articles
I have created a subcategory for Category:Stock characters by characteristics called Category:Fictional elderly martial arts masters. I'm sure there are some people on here that know of some articles that can fit into this category. Thanks. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It is conspicuously missing all the ORIGINAL elderly martial arts masters... Zhou Botong, Emperor Xuangong, the sweeper monk etc would all fit. --Миборовский (talk) 04:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No, elderly martial arts masters have appeared in Chinese novels since the Ming or even before. But I just now added Zhou Botong and Emperor Xuangong per your suggestion (I thought I already added Zhou for some reason). Please feel free to add more characters from Jin Yong's universe that fit the bill. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 19:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject China: Articles of unclear notability
Hello,

there are currently 20 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 2008-03-12 and may be slightly outdated.)

I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see WikiProject Notability.

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I have looked over some of the articles (though not all yet), and I can give opinions on three of them:


 * Sima Zhen - article on a famous historian and commentator of the Shiji. I found him referenced in a number of sources, a couple of which I added to the article.  I think this one is worthy of keeping.
 * Zuo Shu Zhang - I couldn't find any English sources on this, so I looked on the Chinese Wikipedia. It seems to be a relatively minor position in the imperial bureacracy.  Maybe worthy of a mention in a larger article, but I'm not sure that it needs its own.
 * Chinese Holy Grail - There is already a discussion occurring about this article, which seems to be trending toward a content merge followed by deletion of this article. If nothing else, it definitely needs to be renamed.

Feel free to disagree with me here. Perhaps someone else can look at the rest of the articles.--Danaman5 (talk) 07:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

POV issues
The following have been tagged with POV templates and require discussion or editing to NPOV:
 * Environmental issues in the People's Republic of China
 * Environmental issues with the Three Gorges Dam
 * -- Alan Liefting- ( talk ) - 21:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "...the World Bank has reported that 16 of the 20 most polluted cities in the world are Chinese"; see Time magazine's The World's Most Polluted Places
 * 1) Linfen, China
 * 2) Tianying, China
 * 3) Sukinda, India
 * 4) Vapi, India
 * 5) La Oroya, Peru
 * 6) Dzerzhinsk, Russia
 * 7) Norilsk, Russia
 * 8) Chernobyl, Ukraine
 * 9) Sumgayit, Azerbaijan
 * 10) Kabwe, Zambia
 * Ling.Nut (talk) 01:22, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Renaming Terracotta Army article
I've started a bit of work on this article and think that it needs to be broader in scope and renamed. At the moment, for instance, Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperorredirects to it although it doesn't mention the Mausoleum, or any of the other 594 pits that have been found. The Lishan Necropolis or Great Imperial Mausoleum complex or whatever is one entity and should I think have its own article. I guess it has the potential to be big enough to have a separate article Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to talk about the Terracotta Army in isolation, or the tomb itself without talking about the other buildings, artefacts, the artificial river with the bronze birds, etc. It was suggested that I take the discussion here, so I'm doing that. Thanks.--Doug Weller (talk) 08:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There are academic debates about the precise relations between the Terracotta Warriors and the Mausoleum. Theories include that it was actually an army to guard the tomb of one of the First Emperor's ancestors. Supporting evidence include its strange position relative to the tomb, relative distance (much closer to several other Qin royal tombs), and the lack of mentions of the terracotta warriors in historical records.
 * My view is that there should probably be two separate articles, and the terracotta warriors can be a daughter article of the main article on the tomb complex. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I know there is an argument that it was the First Emperor's great grandmother the army was for,but so far as I can seeit isn't one involving very many people on the non-First Emperor side -- I can only find one person, the architect Chen Jingyuan, who is arguing this position -- do any archaeologists support him? I don't understand how the lack of mention by Sima Quian (or anyone else) can be used to argue for an ancestor, lack of mention is just lack of mention. True, it is 1.5 km away from the First Emperor's tomb, but who else had the resources for such a huge project? There was evidently a Ge" (sword) with the inscription "Lu Buwei" found with the army, which points towards the First Emperor. There is simply not enough substance to this argument to merit it being used as a reason for the Terracotta Army to be treated separately from all the other finds outside the mauseoleum itself (let alone in an article separate from the mausoleum). As one book I have says, "The physical mapping of the all required aspects of an eternal imperial life across a large area was one of the principle ways in which the tomb complex created a whole world."  If you look at a map of the complex, the bronze birds along an artifical river and the terracotta musicians pit are about the same distance away. The archaeologists agree that this is one large tomb complex. The army is part of it, defending the whole complex not just the tomb and facing towards the mountain pass where enemies from the former states might have come from.--Doug Weller (talk) 08:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Dehua porcelain
Hello, I come to here to reawaken a merge proposal proposed by User:Marshall46


 * 1) Blanc-de-Chine
 * 2) Dehua porcelain factories
 * 3) Dehua white porcelain in Japan

I think these three articles should be merged to one article because The three are overlapped and all at start status. I think Blanc-de-Chine could absorb the others but I'm not sure this French title is "common name for the porcelains produced in Dehua. According to Britannica it is named as "Dehua porcelain". --Appletrees (talk) 00:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Dragon bones
There's a suggestion to merge Oracle bones with Oracle bone script. 70.51.9.57 (talk) 08:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comments have been overwhelmingly opposed to the suggestion; the consensus is that the two need to be more clearly differentiated instead. I am beginning work on that now (how could I not? LOL) and will remove the merge suggestion tag when done.Dragonbones (talk) 06:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Chinese wine
Chinese wine is up for renaming. 70.51.9.57 (talk) 04:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Re-design
I believe it might be a good idea to give the project a redesign along the lines of WikiProject_Politics to make the project more usable. What do others think? Poeloq (talk) 15:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I like their layout. --Миборовский (talk) 05:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Moslems
Hui and Dungan have been proposed to be merged. 70.55.89.181 (talk) 22:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

CJKV taskforce
The CJKV taskforce has been created to assist in disambiguation of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese when using Kyūjitai, Hanja, Hán tự, Simplified Chinese, and Shinjitai (Kanji). If you wish to participate, please come and help out. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Tones for Jiang Xiaofeng? (蒋小峰)
What are the tones for Jiang Xiaofeng, the hijacker of a Xiamen Airlines flight? The characters are 蒋小峰 WhisperToMe (talk) 03:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 99% sure it is Jiăng Xiăofēng (3-3-1), although it would be pronounced 2-3-1 due to the 3-3->2-3 rule. HkCaGu (talk) 15:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Help for neutrality of articles

 * Christianity in China
 * Portal:Christianity in China

Both the article and the portal are currently full of USA-evangelical pushings and false claims. We need an expert to discuss the phenomenon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.11.78.218 (talk) 19:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Whether Chinese sources can be used on Wikipedia
In a discussion at Talk:Amdo, User:Blnguyen, who is an experienced Wikipedian, says that no source published China can ever be reliable due to the Chinese government's policies on press freedom (I paraphrase. You can see what he wrote youself).

It's the first time I've heard of such a policy, if it exists. Could I ask anyone who knows more about this issue to comment there? Thanks, --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No such policy exists. Ask him to provide documentation. Миборовский (talk) 04:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

You're kidding me right? If anything, mainland China's news sources serve as important sources for the official stance of the Chinese government on controversial issues. I agree they're going to be bias, but as with anything, this is why we should avoid presenting information as simple facts when it comes to controversial issues. That's why it's important we attribute, and state specifically in articles if any specific pieces of information comes from a Chinese source. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 07:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Regardless how you see it, any newsagency source is bound to have some sort of biased stance, depending on which section of society supports it. I think all views regardless of their sources and neutrality should be presented as long as it exists, because it represents the particular views of one section of society. However while writing the information into the article it is best to put a note there to clarify that it is the stand expressed by a particular section. (Not limited to Chinese sources)Mineowyn (talk) 06:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Too many people misunderstand NPOV as meaning that all POV should be excluded; this is incorrect.  Rather, NPOV means that all significant POV should be included as long as the source for each POV is clearly stated.  NPOV is an inclusive policy, not an exclusive policy.  Attempting to exclude POV is impossible because determining bias is not an objective task.  &mdash;Umofomia (talk) 06:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Requesting help with hotel articles
Please see Articles for deletion/Foshan Hotel and Articles for deletion/Sunshine Hotel, Shenzhen. The two articles Foshan Hotel and Sunshine Hotel, Shenzhen are both weak, but perhaps they could be improved with information from Chinese-language sources. Similarly, the articles Beijing Hotel and White Swan Hotel could be improved with information from Chinese-language sources. Perhaps the hotels have won awards for their architecture or for other reasons. Any such information could also be added to the Chinese-language Wikipedia if you have the time. --Eastmain (talk) 08:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested Move on PLA operation/invasion, Tibet
It has been proposed here that People's Liberation Army operations in Tibet (1950–1951) be renamed 1950-1951 invasion of Tibet.

Please join our discussion expressing your viewpoints. 219.73.9.154 (talk) 08:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Jin Jing article - editor using a blog as a source
Some new editor keeps inserting a blog as a footnote source for the article on paralympic fencer Jin Jing. Please keep an eye on it. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

deletion of Chinese Emperor 6
Chinese Emperor 6 is up for deletion at WP:RFD. It is not being used, and Chinese Emperor 0-7 have otherwise been deleted. It s just a redirect to Qing namebox Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_14 Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_28 70.55.85.225 (talk) 05:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:Anna May Wong- Picadilly.jpg
Image:Anna May Wong- Picadilly.jpg is up for deletion at WP:IFD... I'm not sure, but it's about 80 years old, so the copyright ran out? Debate is on whether a free image fulfills the function of this screenshot/pub photo from a film. Though if it is no longer under copyright, then it is a free image, making the discussion moot... does someone know the copyright length? 70.55.85.225 (talk) 06:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion discussion
See Articles for deletion/Abing. Badagnani (talk) 03:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Tibet Collaboration
Would anyone be interested in starting a WikiProject Tibet collaboration project? I think with a bit of devoted effort we could bring an article to Featured Article status once every two months or so. I would suggest that, given the current unrest in the region, that we start with a relatively non-controversial topic. I propose Trisong Detsen. Who's with me? --Gimme danger (talk) 06:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:Mmodel.jpg
A rabid deletionist put this image up for deletion today "no rationale." Since the original uploader hasn't edited for two years, I put the rationale in myself, being a good sport. Within an hour this same rabid deletionist again tagged this for deletion, under "non-free use rationale is disputed." Whatever this guy's problem is, this is a useful illustration and I think it should be saved. Can anyone help? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Wǔxiá to Wuxia
Requested rename on the article for the fiction genre from Wǔxiá to Wuxia - see Talk:Wǔxiá 70.55.85.177 (talk) 06:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Zhou Enlai
Articles for deletion/Zhou Enlai. PC78 (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I watched Forbidden Kingdom
I watched an advanced screening of the movie on Wednesday night (April 16th). I know it's kind of late since today is the grand opening, but is it possible for someone to fill out a movie's description before any major reviews come out? I would have expanded the plot section, but I was afraid that it would have broken some kind of guideline because it lacked a supporting source. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 16:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Reading of Chinese name of Dalian No. 24 High School
What is the reading of the Chinese name of Dalian No. 24 High School? The Chinese is 大连市第二十四中学 WhisperToMe (talk) 05:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Rating article importance
I've been rating the importance of some articles. There are three GA's I am unsure about. Lingbao School and The Northern Celestial Masters are apparently schools within Taoism. I would guess Mid importance, but I don't know how influential they really were in China.

Also, there is Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident which I would consider Low importance, but there may be some political objections.

BTW excellent job on clearing the assessment backlog. --Slashem (talk) 09:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Reading of Pai Hsiao-yen (白曉燕)
What is the reading of Pai Hsiao-yen (白曉燕) ? WhisperToMe (talk) 08:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Bai2 Xiao3 Yan4 or Bái Xiăoyàn. HkCaGu (talk) 17:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) WhisperToMe (talk) 07:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Macau and other parts of southern China in the Dutch Empire
Hello everyone! There is a discussion at Talk:Dutch Empire, because user Red4tribe has made a map of the Dutch Empire (Image:Dutch Empire 4.png) that includes Macau and other parts of southern China. Would you like to comment? Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost (Red4tribe (talk) 16:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC))
 * Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at Talk:Dutch Empire. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 16:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ http://www.colonialvoyage.com/biblioDAfrica.html (Red4tribe (talk) 16:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

Chinese_name : need review !
Hello, I rewritted this section, please review need ! 220.135.4.212 (talk) 13:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC) I done my best with this complex topic an my understanding (I had read ALL the related article, but I'm not Chinese)

Deletion proposal
See Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_April_27. Badagnani (talk) 14:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Pu Ru (painter)
I created a stub about Pu Ru; I thought this was one good place to ask for improvement to the article. B7T (talk) 19:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got nothing to add to the article, however I'd like to point out that in all his paintings on the gallery provided by the external link, the people were all attired in the traditional Han fashion... I hope everyone realizes the inherent irony in this... Haha. --Миборовский (talk) 23:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hong Kong FAR
Hong Kong has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Joowwww (talk) 11:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Maps proposal
I'm in the middle of creating a new set of maps for provinces and settlements, and would be interested in your feedback. The proposed base map can be found at Image:China blank map.svg. It is SVG format, sticks to the colours layed out at WikiProject Maps, is partially based on the featured map of India, is NPOV showing disputed areas, and gives better geographic awareness with country borders, lakes and rivers. This map can also be used as a locator map so a red dot can be added to settlement articles. Taiwan is grouped with disputed areas and there is a legend on the image page showing the change in colour. Provinces will be coloured in red. If anyone has any issues with it please don't hesitate to ask. --Joowwww (talk) 21:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the disputed and foreign colors are too similar. It's difficult to make out which is which, especially for Taiwan, which I initially thought you colored in as 'foreign'. Миборовский (talk) 23:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed the orange to green, as it was hard to distinguish the disputed areas further between orange and yellow. Also I've resized the preview on the right to 280px, which is what you'll see as the standard size in infoboxes. If you still see the old one refresh your cache. --Joowwww (talk) 11:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If nobody else has any issues with the map I'll start implementing it in the next few days. --Joowwww (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This map doesn't seem to show areas disputed by the ROC, only those of the PROC. 70.55.88.176 (talk) 05:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because it's only a map of the PRC --Joowwww (talk) 10:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but the problem from the map I feel is that regardless of who controls the disputed area, the colors are too subtle to distinguish neighboring foreign countries which looks like parts of China as well. Except the mainland China and waterway or sea, all colors are "Green" tone, so the map can misguide the geographical information. I think the current colors are not harmonious but to be fixed--Appletrees (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about Taiwan? If you read above, Miborovsky said Taiwan looked like it was too foreign, and now I get the impression that you are saying it looks like it is too much part of the PRC. I reiterate that this map wasn't made to highlight the disputed areas, and it should not be used on articles that cover that issue. This map's only purpose is to be used geographically, to highlight the location of provinces and to be used as a locator map for settlements. --Joowwww (talk) 20:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not talking about any of the disputed areas but about "neighbors". I would be fine with the map as long as colors of the map clearly distinguish China/Taiwan/Tibet/Other disputed regions from "other neighboring countries". If you want to harmonize all about Chinese territories, you can unify the color with one hue. The mainland China is beige so if the disputed areas are beige tone or yellow, I will be satisfied with your thought on the harmonism. Thanks--Appletrees (talk) 21:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I get what you mean. The disputed areas are darker/lighter shades of the country they are part of, for example Aksai Chin is darker yellow because it is controlled by the PRC. Arunachal Pradesh is lighter green because it is controlled by India. You can see the black border which wraps around the extent of the PRC's control. I can't make the areas more green/more yellow as it would violate WP:NPOV. --Joowwww (talk) 21:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is my alternative suggestion. The map is to show geographical information of China along with the disputed areas, so if you want to assimilate the colors, that should only apply to the regions related to China, not neighboring countries. I colored the disputed areas with subtle but similar with the beige.

--Appletrees (talk) 21:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I really think the colours focus too much on the diputed areas, which isn't what the map is for. How about grey for all disputed areas:
 * --Joowwww (talk) 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but the gray color makes the map looks fade. I add the third/fourht options which are less conspicuous. --Appletrees (talk) 21:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I still think brighter colours take the focus away from the map's original purpose, and some of your suggestions make the disputed areas too bright, seeming like part of the PRC when zoomed out, violating NPOV. Are you intending to use the map on a particular article? If it's about the disputed areas then you can make a separate map with brighter colours for that article. With the previous maps some people complained that the disputed areas were too bright, like here User_talk:ASDFGH, and I'm trying not to do that here, but if there is a general consensus among other Wikipedia China contributors that the map colours are too similar, then I will go back to your suggestions and fulfill the discussion. Thanks, --Joowwww (talk) 10:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Pai Ping-ping and translation from Chinese article
Hi! I need some help with Pai Ping-ping - it seems like the information about the shows in which Pai has starred in is exclusively in Chinese. Is anyone willing to take information from the Chinese Wikipedia and port it to the English Wikipedia? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll take a lot of efforts off the internet to find the English names for those shows and TV series, if they exist at all. HkCaGu (talk) 03:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt English names exist for many of those shows, so I would first take the Chinese names and use them. Then check for English names. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Move to title with tone marks
Please take note of this page move. Badagnani (talk) 05:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Terracotta Army is in truly lamentable shape
Hello all. The Terracotta Army is one of the biggest tourist draws in China, its Importance value is rated "Top" in the WPCHINA template on its Talk... and yet its article is in truly lamentable shape. Ling.Nut (talk) 08:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Category Organization
Category:China and Category:People's Republic of China need to have a subcategory organization rule so that editors just change the contents back and forth based on what they alone think. Currently, Category:China has subcats named to pertain to all of China and subcats pertaining just to the PRC and Category:People's Republic of China is mostly devoid of subcats (a recent editor did this). Also involved are Category:Republic of China and possibly Category:Taiwan.

I propose the following organization for your discussion: Category:China will be the top level category with major subcats of Category:People's Republic of China and Category:Republic of China--no change from the present. Category:China will also have the usual subcats that countries have: such as Category:Government of China. These subcats would be composed of matching Category:People's Republic of China and Category:Republic of China, where they exist, and subcats and articles pertaining to China as a whole prior to the ROC and PRC. Example: Category:Government of China would include Category:Government of the People's Republic of China, Category:Government of the Republic of China, Three Lords and Nine Ministers and other assorted pre-ROC pre-PRC categories and articles.

I further propose that Category:People's Republic of China be repopulated with categories and articles that pertain to the PRC. I do not propose any change to the subcats of Category:Republic of China and Category:Taiwan.

The model for my plan is Category:Korea

Your comments/alternatives? Hmains (talk) 01:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If I understand you correctly, you are implying that all articles relating to the PRC and modern China be categorized under "X of the PRC" which then would be a subcategory of "X of China"? Then users would e.g. click through China --> Economy of China (which would only have historical articles relating to pre-ROC economy) --> and then choose between "Economy of the PRC" and "Economy of the ROC" to reach articles about the modern Chinese economy?  --slashem (talk) 05:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * So PRC articles are under Cat:PRC, ROC articles are under Cat:ROC, and PRC and ROC cats also appear under China subcats of appropriate names, which in themselves contain pre-republic articles, and articles that cover all China? If so, sounds good. 70.55.88.176 (talk) 07:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is what I propose Hmains (talk) 04:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * From my perspective, this is undesirable for two reasons. 1) It implies there is some kind of symmetry between the PRC and the ROC, which is a political fiction, the reality is much more unbalanced than that between North and South Korea.  2) A large number of readers are not going to know the difference between the PRC and the ROC and will therefore click on the wrong link and have to go back.  --slashem (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * My plan 'implies' nothing of the sort. It just a way of organizing categories, and far better than the hash you made of things--without discussing your changes anywhere, anytime, with anyone. Hmains (talk) 03:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's try not to make it personal, ok? It was already a hash.  And I explained to you why no one wants to discuss this.  Right now I'm the only one discussing with you, and it looks like you don't appreciate it.  --slashem (talk) 13:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

China and PRC articles request to be renamed
User:SmuckyTheCat is requesting that China be renamed, and replaced by the People's Republic of China article at "China". 70.55.88.176 (talk) 07:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

TfD on Template:Politics of the Republic of China sidebar
Template:Politics of the Republic of China sidebar has been nominated for deletion. See WP:TfD 74.15.105.204 (talk) 05:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Romanisation systems
Is it really necessary to have outdated romanisation systems in the introduction for placenames? Example: Wade-Giles and Chinese Postal Map Romanisation in the Beijing article. They aren't used anymore so don't really belong in the lead, and are only cluttering it up. --Joowwww (talk) 15:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Peking for Beijing is actually used quite frequently. I have never seen stuff like Peiching, though (only Peip'ing). Yaan (talk) 17:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know Peking is still used as a name for Beijing, I was just using the Beijing article as an example. There are lots of other Chinese city articles that mention their old romanisations. --Joowwww (talk) 18:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they should all list the Chinese Postal name and the Wade-Giles name, because these were or still are the most common name encountered in the English speaking world, and in multitudes of older works, before PROC replaced ROC at the UN. "Canton" for instance, is still a very common name, and arguably the most common name. 70.51.11.99 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wade-Giles for 廣州 would be something like Kuang-chou. Are you saying this is a common name for the city, one that should be mentioned in thelead sentence? Yaan (talk) 23:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggest keeping the Wade-Giles romanisation if it is found in older documents, and also including other romanisations if commonly used (e.g. Canton). --lk (talk) 09:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

article improvement?
Wenchuan County and Ngawa Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture articles should probably be improved, now that all sorts of information about the region is coming out in relation to the 2008 Sichuan earthquake. 70.51.11.99 (talk) 05:10, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

worth salvaging?
Is structural bamboo worth salvaging? as bamboo is used as construction material in, about, and around China. 70.55.86.17 (talk) 08:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Chengdu Stadium redirect...
I'm trying to figure out whether this means Chengdu Sports Center or Chengdu Longquanyi Football Stadium. Or are these two the same place? Thanks! --Tesscass (talk) 19:44, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 21:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Serfdom in Tibet
This article needs a great deal of work and is in danger of being deleted. and are contesting the neutrality of the article and requesting its deletion as a fringe theory. Mainstream scholarly sources have been added to the article, but more are needed to make it incontestable. Please pitch in if you can! --Gimme danger (talk) 03:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The deletion discussion can be found here--Gimme danger (talk) 16:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Sha Yexin new article
Hi, anyone have any books sources which can beef up this small article? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

ditto Lei Chen-Tzu..
Hi, anyone have any books sources which can beef up this small article? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal China and People's Republic of China to China
There's a merge proposal at Talk:People's Republic of China to merge People's Republic of China into China. 70.55.86.34 (talk) 07:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And it will not happen. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thin Chen Enterprise
Does anyone want to find reliable sources about Thin Chen Enterprise? What about Little Red Hood? (Chinese title is 小红帽) WhisperToMe (talk) 15:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

High School Affiliated to Shanghai Jiao Tong University
While I know high schools are generally notable per WP:SCHOOLS and I want to avoid any bias issues, but this high school at least needs a name. I don't read any Chinese but the official website is linked from the article. Would anyone have a go at finding out at least the name to where the article could be moved? Thanks! TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 15:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Judging from the school emblem, which contains English initials of the school name, the current title appears to be right. HkCaGu (talk) 17:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yunnan tractor/truck hybrid - any term for these?
I saw these tractor/truck hybrids in Yunnan that were made by attaching a truck cab and flatbed to a tractor engine. I also raised this inquiry on the Misc. ref desk, but got no definite responses. I'm wondering if anyone else here has seen these and has an idea if there is a term for them, English or not. Thanks. -- Broken Sphere Msg me 21:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

About the article Hoa
I move that:

The article Hoa be removed from WikiProject China.

There are many reasons why Hoa should not be part of the said WikiProject at all and I will only touch on some of them. Firstly, most Mainland Chinese, Hong Kongers and Taiwanese do not regard the Hoa people as being of Chinese ethnicity at all; the Hoa are considered a subset of the Vietnamese ethnicity. This fact immediately disproves the misconception amongst many people that the Hoa are somehow not ethnically Vietnamese.

Another reason is that the ancestors (or at least most of them) of Hoa people are strictly speaking not ethnically Chinese. The simple reality is that the label of Chinese ethnicity was brutally imposed on non-Chinese peoples for various reasons throughout world history. For example, in the centuries following the conquest of what is now Canton and northern Vietnam by Imperial China, some of the most despicable acts were committed by the Han Chinese (and probably some sympathisers as well) against Cantonese, Teo Chew, Vietnamese and many other Viet peoples. Local culture was brutally suppressed and many local people became enslaved. In fact these acts amount to genocide and appear to have been done all in the name of Imperial expansionism.

A further reason is that putting such a label on the talk page immediately promotes an 'us and them' attitude. Many culturally minded people (both Vietnamese and non-Vietnamese) are well aware of the very close ties between Teo Chew, Cantonese and Vietnamese peoples. They lament the fact that the former two peoples have been forced to suffer the indignity of being labeled 'Chinese' on a regular basis for no gain at all. Regrettably, there are still many ignorant people out there who still try to make ridiculous claims that ethnic Vietnamese have little or nothing in common with ethnic Cantonese and Teo Chew. 122.105.146.66 (talk) 05:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Update: The template in question at Hoa has been removed. 122.105.144.54 (talk) 13:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Object - Roadrunner (talk) 14:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Attention all editors
Please note that the Hoa people are NOT considered ethnic Chinese by immigrants from China, Hong Kong or Taiwan; the 'Hoa' are considered 'Vietnamese'. In light of this, I urge all editors to check that all applicable articles reflect the said classification. 122.105.144.54 (talk) 13:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Please note that you are just wrong about this. Roadrunner (talk) 14:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Chinese music industry
I've been unable to find information pertaining to the Chinese music industry, so I was hoping someone here could help me. Is there a Chinese equivelent to the Recording Industry Association of America or British Phonographic Industry? I ask because I'm working on a global music-market type article (List of music recording sales certifications) and I've been unable to find much info pertaining to Chinese music. Any help anyone could give would very much appreciated. Drewcifer (talk) 02:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably State Administration of Radio, Film, and Television. Benjwong (talk) 04:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Page for deletion
I am tempted to delete frog day unless someone can prove this is a real holiday. Benjwong (talk) 04:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Better ask the creator for sources (or *a* source). Badagnani (talk) 03:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Manhua
Does anyone have any objection to me proposing addition of manhua to the scope of WikiProject Comics' world comics work group? I can't find any cohesive group working on manhua in any wikiproject. I had a terrible time just finding a manhua infobox template. :) I figured the comics project's brand-new world comics group would be a good place to serve as a manhua hub.  What do you guys think?  Thanks for your feedback! -- hamu♥hamu  ( talk ) 02:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Chinese legend Hai Tung Ching - Is there an article on it?
Mandarin Airlines says that it uses Hai Tung Ching (海東青), a golden eagle in the book "Annals of Rehol" as its mascot. The Chinese Wikipedia entry on 海東青 points to the Gyrfalcon on EN, but I am not sure if this is the same legend.

Is there a different romanization that this is known as? WhisperToMe (talk) 03:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * According to 海東青 it seems to be a rather nondescript bird. No mythological significance seems to be attached. "Annals of Rehol" is interesting. Rehol = Jehol 熱河 here, and the book is 「熱河志」 "Chronicles of Jehol", a Ch'ing-era (1757) publication. The book does indeed mention the bird, and the description is indeed correct, but it isn't an "old legend" by any stretch. It actually seems to be copied from 「元史」 "History of Yuan", which would have been a Ming-dynasty work (1369). Quoth:「海東青亦曰海青雕之最俊者身小而捷能擒天鵝爪白者尤異次曰玉爪駿俊絕異倫一飛千里」 This is identical to the description on the Chronicles of Jehol. Looks like the Mandarin Airlines people didn't do their homework... Anyway, that was probably more than you asked for. Heh. Миборовский (talk) 08:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Or it could be a poor translation from Chinese... WhisperToMe (talk) 23:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not exactly nondescript. It is the subject of a very dramatic piece of program music for pipa 「海青拿天鹅」 (Haiqing na tian'e/"Hunting eagle catching swans") which is to be heard at . A gyrfalcon used by Mongol hunters to catch swans, as in the quotation from Yuan shi and the pipa piece. Mongols and Jurchens also hunted with golden eagles (jīn diāo 金雕) whence the confusion, I guess.Bloomology (talk) 15:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese wén rename
Chinese wén has been proposed to be renamed Chinese cash (currency) 70.55.88.44 (talk) 05:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Heavy POV from Diaoyutai Islands article
Diaoyutai Islands


 * 1. Chinese Brother(including taiwan), Why This page title name is still "Senkaku Islands"? this is very heavy JPOV. at least, we need more neutral name. like "Pinnacle Islands".
 * 2. This article is abandoned by Chinese editor. Why this silly POV pushing sentence still remained?


 * Quote from article.
 * Their status has emerged as a major issue in foreign relations between Taiwan and Japan. Also, due to China's claim that Taiwan belongs to them, they try to become involved in conflicts regarding the islands, even though the islands have nothing to do with China.
 * <<- This is not true. "try to become involved in conflicts??" "nothing to do with China?"
 * : Quote from article.
 * The Diaoyutai Islands, or Senkaku Islands are a group of disputed, uninhabited islands currently controlled by Japan, but also claimed by the Taiwan (ROC).
 * <<- they omitted PRC.

Last, need more editing in territorial dispute section from Chinese side claim.Clerkwheelzeon (talk) 01:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Recent event
I started the article for Summer 2008 China region floods. If this keeps up, it should be put on the frontpage as news or recent events. Benjwong (talk) 13:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan Province, People's Republic of China - sent for deletion
Taiwan Province, People's Republic of China has been nominated for deletion at WP:AFD. 70.51.9.166 (talk) 04:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Project
Shouldn't this project be split in two, one on the PRC, and a coordinating project over all of China/Chinese Civilization/Chinese History ? 70.51.9.166 (talk) 04:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Cuisine articles for deletion

 * Articles for deletion/Saang mein. Badagnani (talk) 23:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also included in this discussion: Thin noodles, Thick noodles, and Jook-sing noodles. Badagnani (talk) 23:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Articles for deletion/Peanut butter bun. Badagnani (talk) 23:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Sausage bun Ohconfucius (talk) 02:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Big problem -- edit war
This edit is the third in 24 hours unilaterally removing Taiwan-related articles from WPCHINA. The problem is, much of Taiwan is intimately related to Chinese culture, and in fact Taiwan was considered Chinese for many hundreds of years. Our project doesn't just discuss the present but also discusses history: both recent and ancient. Please undo this edit, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 05:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the edit for now, but the user may return.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks; in fact, the removed Wikilink was simply in the "Related projects" section -- and I don't think anyone can dispute that WikiProject Taiwan is related to WikiProject China. Badagnani (talk) 06:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 3027 articles assigned to this project, or 19.8%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-06-18.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 12:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have requested a cleanup listing from this bot, which should be ready in a few days (or whenever the bot can get to it).--Danaman5 (talk) 11:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The listing is now available. Follow the link from the template at the very bottom of the main project page.  It looks pretty well-organized and informative.--Danaman5 (talk) 02:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Page move requests
See


 * Talk:Nanyue Badagnani (talk) 12:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Talk:Chinese_w%C3%A9n


 * Talk:Taoism

Badagnani (talk) 13:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Request move: Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island → Heixiazi
Request move: Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island → Heixiazi; discuss here: Talk:Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island --Voidvector (talk) 17:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Nanyue -> Nam Viet
Nanyue has been requested to be renamed Nam Viet 70.51.10.4 (talk) 06:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Request move: Zhuyin → Bopomofo
Request move: Zhuyin → Bopomofo; discuss here: Talk:Zhuyin --Voidvector (talk) 05:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

1421 hypothesis -> mergeto -> 1421: The Year China Discovered the World
1421 hypothesis has been proposed to be merged into 1421: The Year China Discovered the World (book article). 70.51.9.9 (talk) 06:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Notice of Motion
I move: that in the event that the motion to rename the article Nanyue to Nam Viet is passed, the said article shall be removed from Wikiproject China immediately and meaningful measures shall be implemented to enforce the said removal.

Seriously, whoever thought that the history of Nam Viet is part of the history of China is either ignorant or simply deluded. The simple fact is that all Viet peoples (including Cantonese and Hokkien peoples as well as many peoples living south of the Yangtze River) are not ethnically Chinese and will never will! Never ever! Seriously, the brutal acts committed by the genocidal Han Chinese against the Viet peoples arguably constitute one of the worst genocides in world history. The rampant Sino-centric bias and nonsense must stop now. So it is time that editors stopped pretending that the Cantonese and other non-Vietnamese Viet peoples have little in common with the Vietnamese people. We need to start recognising the fact that all Viet peoples share a common history of armed resistance against the barbaric invaders from the north now. 122.109.121.9 (talk) 10:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. It is part of Chinese history, as well as that of Vietnam and 99 other non-Sinitic ethnic groups living in what is now mostly southern China (and a small part of Vietnam). The ruler of Nanyue, Zhao Tuo, was born in northern China, not the Red River Valley of Vietnam. Badagnani (talk) 16:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the user aware of the fact that Trieu Da of Nam Viet assimilated to Viet culture(s)? Is he also aware that the modern-day Vietnamese ethnic group is really a supra-ethnic identity that is meant to encompass a wide range of smaller and barely distinguishable ethnic groups (many of which did NOT originate in the Red River Valley and in fact originated from places like present-day Canton)? 122.105.146.201 (talk) 01:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - So the claim is that all 100 of the Hundred Yue living in the yellow portion of this map were ethnolinguistically Vietnamese? That is quite a stretch, and quite untrue. The Hundred Yue encompassed Kam-Tai (Daic): Zhuang, Buyi, Dai, Sui (Shui), Kam (Dong), Hlai (Li), Mulam, Maonan, Ong-Be (Lingao), Thai, Lao, Shan, Hmong-Mien, and Vietnamese. Regarding Zhao Tuo's purported assimilation to the Vietnamese culture, that may have been possible had he been living in the Red River Valley; however, he lived in Panyu (today called Guangdong), which was inhabited by people similar to the Zhuang people. The Vietnamese language is Mon-Khmer while the Zhuang language is Tai-Kadai. In this light, your claims just don't make sense. Badagnani (talk) 01:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that 'Viet' is NOT a synonym for 'Vietnamese'. Since you are not the only one who seems to believe that 'Viet' means' 'Vietnamese', I think I need to make it clear that I say 'Viet', I mean 'Yue' as done in some other Wikipedia articles such as Nanyue and Yue (peoples). So I never claimed that Trieu Da assimilated to Vietnamese culture(s); I only claimed that he assimilated to one or more Yue (Viet) cultures. I wonder if the word 'Viet' has been hijacked to serve the ideologies of extremists (which apparently involves using the label 'Chinese' to smear as many non-Vietnamese Viet peoples as possible). 122.109.121.70 (talk) 11:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Note: The motion is void since the motion to rename Nanyue to Nam Viet has been negatived. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.121.70 (talk) 11:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This motion makes no sense. Nam Viet was founded by a Chinese General, therefore it falls under the Military History of China. The descendant peoples of Nam Viet in part still populate southern China, therefore this falls under China. The area Nam Viet occupied is for the most part in China, so this falls under History of China. It's like saying that Roman Gaul isn't part of French history. 70.55.89.46 (talk) 12:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * From similar logic, it can be argued that Annam (Chinese Province) should not be part of WikiProject Vietnam, because it was a Chinese province. 70.55.87.181 (talk) 12:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)