Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cue sports/Archive 1

Towards making this a fully active WikiProject
Any and all input welcome while the initial drafting of this WikiProject is in progress (and aftwards too, of course!) &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're doing a great job. The style guideline is well thought out and absolutely needed. I think the proposed project is far enough along that you should go ahead and post it as a project. I just worry that there aren't enough people with the specialized knowledge necessary to participate. Have you though of making a list of wanted articles on player profiles? We don't even have articles on many of the best and most famous players in the world presently and in the past. If you started such a section I can add much detail. --Fuhghettaboutit 14:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, bro, even if it's just me and you, having a WikiProject to store a Todo list, templates, etc., would be a big help! As for player profiles, that should certainly get in there.  I've been so concerned with the sorry state of the main articles on the games themselves and their organization that I hadn't gone there yet, though I did adapt (in draft form) the snooker player profile template for pool players (need to do so again for carom players, etc.)  It's a start...  There's still a lot of  and  cleanup to do on existing player articles, many of the former of which can be found in &#91;what is presently named&#93; Category:Billiards, snooker and pool stubs. Lots of articles in there that are not yet cat'd under &#91;what is presently named&#93; Category:Billiards or any non-stub sub-cat thereof yet.

Yep. It's a sad state. But with templates (in the Wikipedia sense) and article "templates" (in the "fill-in-the-blanks" sense) I think that will be much easier to deal with down the road. Ironically I literally right now am having a 9' pool table installed, and also have family arriving today for the (US) Thanksgiving hollerday period, so I may be out the gap for a bit, but I should be around and back at this some time next week.
 * > We don't even have articles on many of the best and most famous players in the world


 * OH! If you've not already added your name to WikiProject Council/Proposals and User:SMcCandlish/WikiProject Cue sports please do! It wouldn't hurt to post something, anything, to the User:SMcCandlish/WikiProject Cue sports and subpages' talk pages, just to a) give evidence that there's interest and the ball's already rolling (no pun intended), and b) to actually record suggestions for improvements, etc.  E.g., adding in a recommendation to put a players section as a high priority item in the WikiProject; given the upcoming shindig at my place, I might even forget!  :-).  Also, at Categories for deletion there is one, and at Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 16 (1. 14, 32 , 33 , 36 , and especially 35 and 13 ) there are several, cue sports-related category move/delete items that could use a supporting "vote" , and also a conforming rename at Requested moves .  I'm a little concerned that my "one-man show" attempts over the last several days to clean up this entire article space may rub some people the wrong way if at least one other person doesn't seem to be in consistent favor.
 * PS: "Dabbler in three cushion (high run 13)." Very impressive! My high run is 2 &lt;pout&gt;  I think even that was blind luck.  Heh.  &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 18:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need to worry about rubbing people the wrong way--sad as it may be, I may be the only other Wikipedian who has edited in this topic across many articles so there's no one to get upset:-( By the by, I originally wrote Billiard techniques in the main article on billiards which, like the glossary I wrote, got forked off. I don't think the name the forker used works. Any suggestions?--Fuhghettaboutit 19:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Pretty please? It would just take a few minutes.  I should disclose that I have some "enemies" on WP, because I am a very outspoken Inclusionist; there are people who will happily attack things I propose (if they notice them) if I don't have active supporters.  Personal vendatta crud aside, I agree that between you and me we're the only regular editors of non-snooker topics; but there are active snooker topic editors and they are largely the ones making waves when it comes to moves and renames.  As for Billiard techniques I agree that's a dreadful name (sounds like "techniques for scoring points in carom games").  What about Cue sports technique?  I'm thinking also another fork, to Cue sports equipment, at least as a category if not a 2nd-level meta-article under Billiards &#91;&rArr;Cue sports soon!&#93;, to keep the "master" cue sports meta-article leaner and under the recommended max article length.  I think "Main article at whatever " is a Good Thing. :-)  At least when it is done properly.  &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 21:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Totally overhauled Three-ball article!

 * &#91;Moved from Talk:Cue sport.&#93;

I'd worked up a draft article several months ago on three-ball, then someone else put up a very skeletal public one (that nonetheless had info mine didn't.) I've merged and expanded them into the current public article, with citations to several (not very authoritative) sources. Additional source citations supporting a) various consensus points about what the overall rules of the game are, and b) several unsourced facts, would be very appreciated. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 23:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: Marked this topic "resolved" since that article has its own talk page for any further discussion. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to move Billiards to Cue sport & make Billiards a disambig
Two related proposals:


 * Rename Billiards (the present generic cue sports article) to Cue sport (and make Cuesports redirect there), with corresponding renames to relevant categories. Rationale: The term "billiards" only means "cue sports in general" to Americans (and perhaps a few others). To most Europeans and non-British Commonwealth English speakers, it means "the family of carom billiards games", while to most of the British it means "the specific pocket billiards game 'English billiards".  This is a serious problem, and people are already complaining about it (e.g. in Talk:Billiards, and Categories_for_deletion/.../Pool and Snooker computer games.
 * Conforming move: Create a Billiards disambiguation page (and Billiard redirect to it).

Thoughts? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support the renaming of the article, as I believe the worldwide view is described above. It would also be more encyclopedic to present it this way.
 * Question: This would mean that "Billiards" would still have its own article, only about the family of carom games, correct? --ChaChaFut 02:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd say that's an open question. The word would certainly still work in Wikipedia; but at least for the nonce I think it should go to Cue sport, just so as to not freak anyone out.  The "issue" is that to MOST American's it means "cue sports in general"; to SOME Americans and most Europeans, Australians, Canadians, Irish Republic citizens, etc., it means "carom billiards games", and to most English, Northern Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, it means "the specific game of English billiards", from what I can gather.  I'm not even certain that I'm completely accurate in this assessment's details, only in the fact that the term means at least three different things depending on what one's background is. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 11:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Support the name change. I created the billiards article definitional header to address this very problem. Regarding the preceding post, I'm not sure. The problem is, as noted previously, that Billiards means different things in different places. If we make "billiards" into an article on the carom games that leads to the same problem—in England it refers solely to English Billiards. In Belgium it refers solely to three cushion, etc. I think the best way to go is to have the carom games under the umbrella Carom billiards and make billiards into a disambiguation page, with Cue sports as the lead post, followed by the descendant articles.--Fuhghettaboutit 05:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment &mdash; The rename is being warmly debated at Talk:Billiards. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 22:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment &mdash; It's been over a week now; any further input? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 12:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Remaining problem with the disambig proposal
I don't think that was thought through too carefully by any of us. It turns out that hundreds and hundreds of articles link to Billiards when trying to refer to some form of cue sport. Actually making "Billiards" (with the -s) be a disambig. page will not actually serve anyone particularly well. The Billiard (no -s) is now a useful disambig page, and "Billiards" redirs to Cue sport, which has a standardized disambig note at the top directing people to Billiard if they aren't seeing what it is they were looking for. Is this good enough for everyone? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation & move results
Here's my tally of the consensus at Talk:Billiards and Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Cue sports on two closely-bound proposals. Feel free to correct it if you think something in it is inaccurate:

(i.e. create a disambiguation page and move Billiards out of the way.)
 * Making the search term/wikilink Billiards go to a disambiguation page


 * User:Robert A West, opposes, but recognizes the ambiguity problem and suggests making it a summary style article
 * All others support (User:SMcCandlish initially opposed, and suggested it redir to Cue sport, with a new Billiard (disambiguation), but rescinded this idea.)

(to make room for the dab page and provide a non-ambiguous top level article name; make redirs to it from "cue sports", "cuesport", etc.)
 * Renaming the present Billiards article (i.e. the content) to Cue sport


 * User:SMcCandlish supports without reservation, and opposes "Billiard-type games", "Billiard family games", etc.
 * User:Robert A West opposes, but favors "Billiard-type games", "Billiard family games", etc.
 * User:Anþony supports, with the caveat that use of the term shouldn't be too overboard
 * User:Alai somewhat supports, but favors "Billiard-type games", "Billiard family games", etc.
 * User:Septentrionalis somewhat opposes ("doubt the usefulness"), but recognizes the ambiguity, without suggesting an alternative name
 * User:ChaChaFut supports, with a reservation rendered moot by the consensus on the disambiguation page idea
 * User:Fuhghettaboutit supports without reservation

There's broad consensus to make Billiards go to a disambiguation page, which necessitates that we arrive at consensus about what to call the extant article at Billiards. On that topic, there's a solid bloc of support for Cue sport, with non-controversial caveats, and one fervent opponent. The other alternatives proposed thus far all have "billiard(s)" in them, opening the question of whether they can still be unambiguous enough to use.
 * Results:

Arguments against Cue sport :
 * "Cue sport(s)" isn't a recognized enough term (too new, not used broadly enough, or both).
 * "Cue sports" aren't really sports, just games; the industry is just pushing them as "sports".
 * Someone might think it means games involving verbal or gestural cues, like charades.
 * "Billiard games", "billiard-family games", etc., aren't really ambiguous because they're generalized terms.

Arguments for Cue sport :
 * It is used internationally in the sport/industry with a more consistent meaning than any other term, and is a general classifier like "water sports" that is not ambiguous (well, until you think dirty >;-)
 * George Carlin's assertion that it's not a sport unless you could get killed aside, all sports are "games"; cue sports are games of physical skill competed in by professionals at regional, national and international levels, with "regulating" organizations, so they are clearly sports.
 * It is easily understood simply from its word parts; charades isn't a sport, so no confusion will result.
 * "Billiard games", "billiard-family games", etc., are ambiguous because many speakers on both sides of the Atlantic don't use the term "billiard(s)" to mean cue sports in general at all (British readers who vehemently deny that snooker is a form of billiards, Americans who think it means and must always mean carom, etc.), putting us right back where we started. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 18:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

So now what? I'm not an admin or arbitrator and I don't feel I'm in a position to "declare" consensus, but will opine that I feel that the consensus leanings are strongly toward the rename. If anyone feels their positions have been miscast, I'll be happy to correct the above stuff, or you can just do it yourself of course. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 18:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Lee Van Corteza AfD
Lee Van Corteza's article is up for AfD (deletion). Please give your opinion at Articles for deletion/Lee Van Corteza. SportsAddicted | discuss  22:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The result was keep. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 12:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Stub templates and categories
As part of WikiProject Stub sorting, I would like to ask you all to participate in the SFD discussion that is going on regarding the stub templates and categories for this project. It's kind of a big mess right now and I would like to straighten things out. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr  =^_^=  21:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The results of the discussion are as follows:
 * cuesport-stub /

I also noticed a template in the Wikipedia namespace (Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports/Template:Cuesports-bio-stub) that you might want to propose at the WikiProject Stub sorting Proposals page. I would recommend using cuesport-bio-stub to match cuesport-stub You could then move it into the template namespace and it could be upmerged into (similar to snooker-bio-stub). If you have any questions, let me know. I'd be glad to do it myself if you'd like. ~ Amalas rawr  =^_^=  17:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Marking this topic "Resolved" as it's all been taken to WP:SfD and WP:WPSS/P. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 03:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

New Template:Cuegloss to make Glossary wikilinks easier
Just created the Cuegloss template. See that page for template documentation. Basically, it makes is much easier to create terminology wikilinks to the Glossary of cue sports terms without having to keep typing such a long article name. If anyone is feeling gnomish, the extant links of that sort can be converted to this template at will; doing so will help alert editors that the template even exists and how it is used. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * NB: This template should not be subst'ed; doing so will completely defeat the entire purposes of the template. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Marking topic "Resolved" since that template has its own talk page for further discussion. Armbrust (talk) 10:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

New Template:Cue sports nav, a navigation box for all relevant article pages
See the WP:CUE section for details. See also other new templates at WP:CUE. Some of them are still drafts and need input. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Marking topic "Resolved" since that template has its own talk page for further discussion. Armbrust (talk) 10:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Please support the category cleanup
Categories for discussion/Log/2007 February 2 could use some supporting "Rename" !votes. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 13:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Here WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/2007/February also, at " + conforming twiddles". &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 15:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 *  I could still use some help on this, especially the latter one. Just a moment of your time to say "per nom".   &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 21:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

ALERT! Alfredo DeOro AfD
A meritless AfD against ol' Freddie has been filed. Please oppose it here: Articles for deletion/Alfredo DeOro &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 00:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Article was Kept. Should have been Speedily Kept, since the deletion nomination was in blatant bad faith, but oh well. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 02:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting patent sources

 * &#91;This thread was refactored in from User talk:SMcCandlish since it is more salient here.&#93;

I am writing Baseball pocket billiards. In my search for sources I came across this patent application for a new game called "BLAZZ". Thought you might find it interesting (not the game itself, but the existence and methodology of the patent application).--Fuhghettaboutit 14:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The format it is nice, the way Google does it in that PDF frame (well, nice if you have a PDF plugin installed, but I would think most of us do at this point). The text itself was also interesting in that it indicated that the 1974 ver. of the BCA rulebook includes games not listed in the later versions.  Time to look for a copy! &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 16:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Glad you pointed that out. Can't find the 1974 edition, but earlier editions would likely have the same different material right? I just ordered the 1970 edition from amazon.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:43, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And I just got the '71! I think we were both doing that pretty much simultaneously. Anyway, yeah, I figure any version at least as old as 1974 should have that material.  I've been meaning to add something somewhere about the differences between the World Std.ized Rules and the old ones, anyway, so that'll come in handy for that as well. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 16:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup progress
All the idenfied cue sports stubs that were bios have now been tagged with the new Cue-sports-bio-stub tag, which sorts them into the new Category:Cue sports biography stubs. The parent category is weirdly named Category:Cue sport stubs; I've opened a SfD here that will resolve that typo. Please support the move at the SfD. This is the last of the needed category renames. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 02:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Backlog at this page
I'm not sure this page should have a backlog tag on it... happy to be persuaded otherwise. --Dweller 11:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Was in reference to our incredibly huge to-do list, which is technically a transclude. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 12:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * NB: The template feeds into Category:Wikipedia backlog, which is general/everyone, not Category:Administrative backlog, so I don't see an issue with it myself. Is it causing a problem of some kind? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 12:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems someone else had a problem with it - it's been removed. --Dweller 14:53, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh well. Didn't seem to be having any effect like attracting "I'm bored and want to do something constructive" editors, so no big loss. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 00:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Book recommendation
Considering what a goldmine Shamos' encyclopedia is, I picked up another book by him. Wow! You want an overview of the entire sport, you have to get this. Pool: History, Strategies and legacies (Amazon listing, if you're interested).--Fuhghettaboutit 03:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, sounds good. Just ordered one (for $7, not $64, heh). &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 03:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Good resource
If you are looking for a free online newpaper resource for articles, I just found a new one (other than the NYT which I don't pay for). Note that I have searched high and low and there are very few free archives available. The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, apparently one of the most popular papers in the country at one times and headed by Walt Whitman for a time has a free online archive from 1841 to 1902 at http://www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/eagle/. Type in billiards and you'll see pahe after page of results for example.--Fuhghettaboutit 18:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool! How do you get the full NYT articles then? &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 19:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have a home subscription, you don't pay for any of their premium online services (so in a sense it's not free per se). You are restricted to 100 archive articles per month but I've never even come close to using that up.--Fuhghettaboutit 19:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

New Categories
(and more specific subcategories thereof, which are the ones that should actually be used; the top-level one is just a subcat container). Intended for bio articles of people notable for something else (e.g. Jackie Gleason and Jerry Orbach), not for am players who are notable for being am players, and probably should not be added to an article that does not sourceably document the subject's ardent involvement in pool or whatever. I believe this category will obviate any need to maintain a list of such people, which was already being questioned over at Talk:Cue sport. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * These are up for CfD in a nomination that has been in my view improperly expanded from a single (for the empty snooker one) to multiple days after the fact, without CfD tags on them. Could use some additional input from the project over there. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 09:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Notice: Zanetti article being AfD'd
Marco Zanetti (UMB three-cushion world champion) has been taken to AfD: Articles for deletion/Marco Zanetti. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 02:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Nine-ball overhaul
Major changes have been made to the Nine-ball article, including addition of lots of sourced material, esp. on European rules changes that are starting to seep into international competition, addition of more derived games, plus some general restructuring and cleanup. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 20:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Troco
I am not an expert on cue sports, but I am interested in Elizabethan passtimes, and I have started an article on troco which I have tagged for your project. - PKM (talk) 17:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Cool! Oh, you really, really, really want to get Mike Shamos's The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Billiards (you can sometimes get it for as cheap as $4 used from Amazon.com), as it chock full of info on virtually every pre-1900s billiards-like game of this sort.

Merge WP:SNOOKER and WP:CUE?
What do we think of the idea of merging WP:SNOOKER into WP:CUE as task force? I don't think this would affect day-to-day operations in any way at all (e.g. the snooker project tags wouldn't be deleted or anything, just modified to point to the right place), would make WP:COUNCIL happy (they prefer it if closely-related projects merge), and (why I'm proposing it) would give us a larger, merged list of participants with a centralized talk page and help keep both projects active, not tagged with Inactive nor sent to WP:MFD. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 09:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 261 articles are assigned to this project, of which 137, or 52.5%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:



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Eddy Merckx
Hello cue sports fanatics!

As you might know, the name Eddy Merckx is in use by (at least) two persons: Eddy Merckx (billiards player) and Eddy Merckx (cyclist). Until recently, the article Eddy Merckx was about the cyclist, but recently it has been changed into a disamb page, and a discussion is going on if that was a good move. I think the cyclist is the primary use, see the discussion for some arguments. I just want to point you to the discussion, it would be good to have somebody from the cue sports project give some arguments. Even if you don't agree with me ;) --EdgeNavidad (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
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CfD issue needs input
Please see Categories for discussion/Log/2009 April 13. This is the third time this particular category has been up at CfD, as it keeps closing without consensus. This time it should close with a clear consensus, one way or the other, as it has high precedent value with regard to whether categories should be broadly gender-divided (e.g. a Category:Female snooker players, Category:Female carom billiards players, etc.). —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 22:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Does your WikiProject care about talk pages of redirects?
Does your project care about what happens to the talk pages of articles that have been replaced with redirects? If so, please provide your input at User:Mikaey/Request for Input/ListasBot 3. Thanks, Matt (talk) 01:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Frequently asked questions

 * 1) Why is the main article name Cue sport instead of Billiards?
 * A. Because "billiards" has too many meanings.  To most Americans it means "pool". To topically knowledgeable Americans it quite conversely more often means "carom billiards".  To yet other Americans, and most people in the industry regardless of nationality, it means "cue sports in general".  To English-speaking continental Europeans, it generally means "carom billiards" exclusively.  To the British, it almost always means "the specific game of English billiards".  Historically it has also meant different things, such as carom, pool and bagatelle games played with a golf-club like proto-cue called the "mace".  Until the late 19th century in America, it mostly meant American four-ball billiards.  And so on.  This multi-level ambiguity problem means that the core article on cue sports as a general, encompassing topic needs to be cue sports, while the article on English billiards is at English billiards, etc.  The term "cue sports" is generally not used much in other articles, where the ambiguity is unlikely to be problematic, as at Billiard ball and Billiards table.  Also, "cue sports" encompasses a few games that are not billiards-family games but are played with a cue, such as some variants of the disks-on-a-board game, carrom, and the related novuss.
 * 1) Why is WikiProject Snooker a separate project instead of a taskforce of this one?
 * A. For several reasons. It predates WikiProject Cue sports considerably.  While this is not by itself the most compelling of reasons to remain separate, there are others.  WP:SNOOKER's membership has very little overlap with that of WP:CUE, and participants in the former are almost exclusively focused on snooker topics, with little interest in the broader scope of cue sports, modern or historical.  By contrast, while many WP:CUE participants are as theoretically interested in snooker as they are in Cowboy pool or straight rail, they do not have the depth of involvement and background to be principal organizers of the snooker articlespace, with all of its player statistics changing all the time; that requires dedicated snooker fans.  This does not mean that new WikiProjects should be formed for every major cue sport.  Snooker is a huge world-wide phenomenon, and is the most televised and most watched of the entire class of these games.  While eight-ball and nine-ball are very popular internationally as well, they are really simply variants of pool more generally, and most practioners (and fans) of one are of the other, and more besides such as one-pocket and bank pool. It is a more diffuse area of coverage, and so WP:CUE itself is well-equiped to handle the relevant articles' needs.  However, some proposals for WikiProject reform would eventually force WP:SNOOKER to become a WP:CUESPORTS task force.  That doesn't look to be any time soon (nor even particularly likely) as of this writing (July 2007).
 * 1) What should I do about terminology in articles? I know we're suppose to wikilink a lot, but link to what?
 * A. This one is easy!  We have a large glossary of cue sports terms.  That's a long article name, but don't worry - you don't have to type it.  You can use the simple inline Template:Cuegloss, which works like this:   will display as "...if the  is ..."
 * 1) How do I categorize the player article I've just written, about a Canadian snooker and pool player, who is also a noted pool and snooker TV commentator?
 * As with any article, put the person into every relevant category: Category:Canadian snooker players, Category:Canadian pool players, Category:Snooker non-player personalities, Category:Cue sports non-player personalities. (There may be more specific such categories over time.)

Historical info
Regarding the billiards article, I have been meaning to start reworking it into a history of billiards but the main source I would think to start working from, The Billiard Encyclopeda (Victor Stein, Paul Rubino) was borrowed by a friend and never returned. I gathered you were an "inclusionist" (as you so label yourself). I am the main author of Notability (books) and noted your comments. I really hate the label deletionist and, parenthetically, have fought hard at times to keep certain articles others were arguing to delete but only because I felt the subjects were notable. I do think it is and should be self-evident that encyclopedia articles be on notable subjects. Anyway, let's work on this and not open up that can of worms.--Fuhghettaboutit 21:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah the history stuff is sorely lacking in most of these articles. Sad to hear of your Stein/Rubino loss.  I don't even have that one yet myself (I think I may go Amazon it right now just so at least one of us has it on hand. :-), though I do have Shamos's latest New Enc. of B., which will be a good source for a lot of stuff.  The article "templates" I want to draft will definitely include a ==History== section by default.  (On the incl. vs. del./notability topic, I replied in userspace) &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 22:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I'm GOING to get it back. It's just that the borrower is not reliable sort and, frankly, I was crazy to lend it out, but lots of whining does have its uses I guess. I have Shamos' encyclopedia also—you'll note that I began sourcing the glossary using it a few weeks ago. Most glossaries are unsourced but let's make ours better.--Fuhghettaboutit 04:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hope you do! I looked into getting one myself, but realized I'd have to save up quite a bit of money to get one.  I can't believe it's that expensive! &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Tournament results diagrams
&#91;Moving this over from the non-talk page. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)&#93;

Such as at 2005_Mosconi_Cup &mdash; where do these charts come from? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ
 * They originated in the Ryder Cup pages...
 * Is there a template for this, or are they built by hand? &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 01:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Hop to it!
Please see the to-do list on the main page (or directly at WP:CUETODO). The "Wanted" list of new articles (or at least sourced and accurate stubs) has been been prioritized, by an intersection of the subject's importance and the number of redlinks to them discovered so far. If you are more interested in maintenance than wholesale article writing, there are loads of other to-do items that may interest you. The to-do list is very regularly maintained, so it is recommended that you watchlist it (watching the WikiProject Cue sports main page won't watch the to-do list; it has to be watched separately). &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 21:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Five-pins source?
The Five-pins article is now in fairly good shape. Please help us find an English-language (or even Spanish or French) source with regard to this game. Having only Italian sources (which get mis- or questionably-translated the same way by both Google and Babelfish) has left several crucial questions about the finer details of the game rules wide open, because the machine translation just utterly mangles the original in key places. Aside from that lingering issue, I think it's actually one of the best basic articles I've put together so far. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 21:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Anyone know Japanese?
At ja.wikipedia.org here there are two pool-related movies listed, without English names showing, and I'm wondering if anyone can ID them so we can look 'em up in IMDb: &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 06:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 道頓堀川（1982年・日本）
 * ナイン（2000年・日本)

Template on players' articles
The template Cue sports nav is added to a few snooker players' articles, e.g. Ronnie O'Sullivan, Graeme Dott. As the template isn't directly relevant to the articles, it would be best if it were removed. Christopher Connor 16:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * How is it not relevant? I do imagine that over time it would fork into some variants, like a more snooker-specific one with lots of snooker topics and just one row of "see also" links to more general topics, but WP:SNOOKER hasn't made one yet, so I'd leave the "stock" one in place until we get to that point; some navigation even if a little general is better than no navigation.  The Cue sports project tag on the talk page is a different story.  I think I did accidentally slap it on the talk pages of some players who are snooker players only, in which case it should be removed in favor of the WP:SNOOKER template.  Some players have both because they are, for example, both snooker players and Mosconi Cup pool players, so both projects have an immediate interest in shepherding the articles. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 22:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It just seems to be only loosely related to the article. It's a bit like putting a template on ball sports onto a football player's article. Also, only a few of the players have the tag on them and others don't. Christopher Connor 11:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Haven't gotten around to all of them yet! Anyway, it's' the best that we have for now.  I'm doing more templating than anyone else in these topic areas, so it'll probably be me that makes more game-specific variants of the navigation bar at some point, but others are certainly welcome to give it a shot.  In the interim, better some nav than no nav! &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 12:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I very much agree with this reasoning. I think a navigational template should be used on pages that are actually referenced on the tempate, and not on much else.  This also seems to be how other navigational templates are used.  I would think that people checking out a pool players article are not very likely to want to check out some obscure billiards game.  If they do there is a link to the pool article (where the nav template is obviously useful).  And yes, I think that no nav is better than irrelevant nav. Havardk 16:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see some precedential discussion, if there is any. That is, if a consensus on this issue has generally formed, where was it formed?  Right now, here, it's just one opinion vs. another, and that's not very guiding. :-)  In my experience, I see both sorts of usage - navboxes that only appear on articles mentioned in the template, and navboxes that appear on relevant articles that are not mentioned on the template. Arguments can be made for either usage, but I've leant toward the latter ever since the auto-collapsing code was installed in most navboxes.  The major argument against seems to be that people interested in X are not likely to be interested in the parent topic of X, which we'll call Z, nor topics A, B and C which are also "descendants" of Z.  I don't see any evidence that this is actually true (and I know it is not true for me, as a reader rather than an editor, though of course that it completely subjective).  The major pro argument is that navigation leads readers to richer, related content and helps them explore a topic, and that limiting navboxes to only the topics that appear in the template is both somewhat self-defeating of the purpose but also inspirational of overly-long navboxes (cf. United States topics).  I'm not asserting an "I'm right!" viewpoint here, just curious if this issue has already been explored (at WikiProject Templates? In the Village Pump?) in sufficient depth that an identifiable consensus has already been formed and can be relied upon.  (If there has, it should be added to as advice in Navigation templates which is presently entirely silent on the matter. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 19:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'm a passing member of this project, I'd say that this template doesn't belong on individuals pages. It's not directly relevant so it shouldn't be there, in my opinion.  On the other hand, it encourages further development of cue-sport articles.  Depends what you're driving at, but the encyclopaedic answer is to add it the template where it's relevant.  And nowhere else.... The Rambling Man 21:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Webby sources
What's our rede collectively (and with WP:RS, WP:WEB, WP:EL, etc., in mind) on the value of citing billiardsforum.info and other bloggish online forums? One thing I've noticed about Featured Article/List status is that such sources generally have to go, in favor of "hard" ones. Then again, if the particular one being cited in at least semi-authoritative it at least makes the article more reliable in the short term. Hmph. I really don't know where I stand on this one. I think the anti-web slant of some of these guidelines is off-base, ironic, and hypocritical given what WP is, but sometimes they raise good points too. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 22:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree, and think we should only use it where we can't find a better source (and have looked). With that in mind, I am leaving it in for on the lemonade but removing it for on the snap, which already has three book citations.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds right to me. Wasn't meant as a criticism, BTW; it's just something I've been thinking about for a while.  Like, the three-ball article is nothing but webby or otherwise questionable sources, because there just seem to be none. Yet everyone knows how to play.  It's a true folk game.  The week before I moved to Toronto, I played about 6 hours of dollar-ante three-ball in San Francisco.  Some 4 or so months after moving to T.O., I end up doing the same thing one night when there were kinda too many players at my local one-table watering hole for eight-ball to be anything but frustrating for everyone but the two people at the table.  The rules were about 95% identical.  Yet no one's ever read them.  I called Gino & Carlo's in San Francisco this week; knew they'd run three-ball tournaments in the past.  Asked for a copy of the rules. "Oh, we don't have printed rules.  It's like bar pool; ya just know how to play."  ARGH.  And most of the webby rules are obvious copy-pastes of nine ball rules where "9" has been globally search-replaced with "3".  I dunno what to do at this point. I think the article's worth keeping, but the sources are so shaky and contradictory.  If anyone gets a hare up their butt to AfD it, it will almost certainly go down under WP:N (the 'reliable' clause).  Bzzzzt.  &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 00:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

MAJOR annual pool tournaments -- yesterday and today
I was wondering if there should be a category for MAJOR pool tournaments, so that one could click a link to read more about the event.

Johnston City was a MAJOR tournament in days gone by, and there are others that were prominent in America.

Legends of One-Pocket comes to mind, Clyde Childress Memorial Tournament which took place in Kentucky each year. Glass City Open in Toledo, Ohio, which ceased to exist last year, but was an annual event. Hustlers Jamboree is another one. One can read about these tournaments in pool literature.

The International Pool Tour, though it looks like it may have an end soon, is another MAJOR pool tournament event, the biggest tournament purses, multi-million-dollar purses, with Efren Reyes winning $200,000 in December 2005 in Orlando and much more.

Today, for instance, a couple would be U.S. Open Nine-ball Championship in Chesapeake Beach, Virginia, and the week-long Derby City Classic in Louisville, Kentucky, each January. The BCA Open in Las Vegas, which is going on right now as I write this, is another annual pool event which takes place each year that attracts players from around the world. Do you think this would be a worthy category? That way the reader could learn about the games played, the rules, prize monies, who won, et cetera. RailbirdJAM 11:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Lets not forget the historic Jansco brothers' Stardust Opens.--Fuhghettaboutit 02:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * See WP:CUEEVENTS for list of needed tournament articles (add to it as needed). —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 22:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ronnie Allen Pool Player
I was attempting to initiate an article about Ronnie Allen, but notice there is another "Ronnie Allen" article, but it is a different person. However, they have the exact same name. How can I begin an article about Ronnie Allen the pool player, so that it does not cause any conflicts? Thanks in advance. RailbirdJAM 20:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Click here: Ronnie Allen (pool player) and start writing. I suggest after creation you add at the top of the existing Ronnie Allen article the following code: which formats as .--Fuhghettaboutit 02:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Or we can move Ronnie Allen to Ronnie Allen (footballer), and make Ronnie Allen be a disambiguation page. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 02:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. All that really matters is that people searching for this Ronnie Allen will find him and there's no real primary topic here; either way.--Fuhghettaboutit 03:32, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * PS: RailbirdJAM, what happened with your Ronnie Allen (pool player) article plans? —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 21:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Trick shot
Hey people I am working on trick shot and any help would be appreciated...if you are interested contact me on my talkpage.Vandalfighter101 11:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly needs it, and I've worked on it a bit myself. It especially needs coverage of the major tournaments and their winners/runners-up. As I've expressed elsewhere to you, I think it's a good idea for now to also include coverage of artistic pool, but that clearly at some point should be its own article. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 22:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

2007 WPA Men's World Nine-ball Championship
Since the tourney's ongoing, I'd need help from you guys. :D -- Howard  the   Duck  11:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Article is complete now, but it needs sourced for verification. Armbrust (talk) 10:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Cool new sortable tables feature
See IBSF World Billiards Championship; the "widgets" in each table column allow the tables to be inverse sorted. Very cool feature. Needs to be added to lists of championships, lists of events, etc. How it works is documented at Help:Sorting. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 14:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Carom photos needed
There appear to be zero photos, either on WP or on Commons, of anything relating to carom billiards. Not even the balls! The best we have are lithographs, usually of extinct games, from the 1800s and earlier, and a cheesy, cartoonish CG image of the balls. If anyone lives near a hall with a carom table, please just take a digital camera down there for a little while and get some usable shots of the balls, how the table is set up for various games (i.e. initial ball positions, if any are specified) and so on. Actually, I will see if I can borrow some from the billiard supply store near me, so I can at least get photos of them next to pool balls for scale, but I do not have a carom table and no hall near me has one. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 21:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've managed to provide a couple of pics, but more are needed, showing the game being played, showing a carom cue in comparison to a pool cue, and so on. Actually, what we really need are side-by-side pics of a carom, pool and snooker cue, showing the length, a closeup showing butt differences, and a closeup showing taper, tip and ferrule differences. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 19:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I have four different carom cues and many more pool cues, but alas, no snooker cues. I also don't have a camera so what the hell am I doing in this thread? I really should pick up a camera. Hmmm, I'll ask for one for my birthday. If I get one I'll take a whole bunch of shots at a carom room of varous things including comparisons.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Cue sport FA
Hey. As a (very) part-time member of the project, I was wondering if we could instigate some kind of FA drive? I'm 100% certain an article like Steve Davis would (with a bucket of work) get there. Let me know if you'd be prepared to spend some time working with me on it! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, but this will need to be done one step at a time. The order I would suggest is Peer Review, followed by a bid for Good Article status, then WP:SPORT A-class assessment, and finally Featured Article. It's really rare for an attempt at FA status to succeed if there hasn't been peer review and GA (A-class is less vital, but can't possibly hurt). PS: Do you mind I repost this to WT:CUE and WT:SNOOKER? —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 18:56, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course. I've got a fair bit of experience over at WP:FAC with football and cricket articles so I know the deal (I'm now on 17 featured articles/lists).  I'm seriously going to suggest we avoid a GA - that could take months with the current backlog.  I think with my FAC experience and your cue knowledge we can go PR then FA.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. Repost away, the more the merrier! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Works for me then! —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 19:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, well Steve Davis seems like a good place to start! I'll get going on manual of style issues and start adding/refactoring sections.  I'll also probably add a bunch of cn templates - we'll need to be watertight on references for FAC to succeed.  Let's kick it! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * We also need to identify some additional likely candidates. WP:CUE and WP:CUE are good places to start, as is WP:SNOOKER. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 19:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm onto the Romford Slim now. This is exactly the kind of article which could help escalate the project's profile.  All interested parties (particularly those with reference-able material!) welcome!! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Those new to the FA process may find useful this step by step guide to it --Dweller (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Cue sports
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection before December 2008, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 16:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright compadres! Aside from ongoing WP:GA and WP:FA pushes, we should clearly focus our energies on the 7 articles so far selected for the CD/DVD releases and get them up to spec. After that, we can see what other articles are likely to be able to be raised to these standards quickly and get them nominated for WP release versions as well. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 21:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

61-Pool
As I dimly recall from at least forty years ago and I do not know if this is from personal experience or a description in a book of games, "61-Pool" is another name for a game whose "true" name I have forgotten in which the values of the balls sunk by each player are added together and the winner is the person whose score is sixty-one or higher as the sum of the numbers one through fifteen is one hundred twenty. I think that stripes and solids had to alternate, so that a player could not win by only sinking a few stripes. I believe the eight ball did not count, it may have meant either a loss of game or a loss of turn if it were sunk. I do remember that if the wrong type ball were sunk the player lost his turn and the ball was credited to his opponent.

I know the above is OR but it may give some one a start on researching the game.

Have fun.
 * JimCubb (talk) 23:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I have it in some old rulebooks. It'll get added eventually, but as it is essentially an extinct game, and one that did not have a marked effect on modern games, the priority is pretty low. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 22:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

T'other Russian Billiards
Is there a particular reason why the North American/Canadian game called Russian Billiards isn't given a page? It's not the Pyramid one. Is it contentious, too uncommon, or just not got round to yet? There are some rules here though they are not quite how I've been taught to play. Dumbledad (talk) 08:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure this was deleted long ago at WP:AFD because it was non-notable and recently invented. Just the fact that it has software-style version numbers to its rules is a tell-tale sign. —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Are there enough articles on this subject to justify an Outline of cue sports?
Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

P.S.: See Wikipedia's collection of outlines at WP:OOK.

The Transhumanist 00:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Definitely. It is something that's been vaguely on my mind since you mentioned OoKs on my talk page several months ago. My main concern is that too many of our core articles are still in iffy shape. Same reason we haven't done anything in the "Book:" namespace yet. —  SMcCandlish    Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 08:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation
As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

AZ Billiards pics

 * This topic was moved here from User talk:SMcCandlish, as being more relevant here than in usertalkspace. Could be a good source of with-permission pics of living players!.

Hi :)

AZ Billiards replied to my request to use their photo of Strickland. Here's what they said:

>Use any of the ones that are credited to Diana Hoppe. Just make sure that you credit her as 'Diana Hoppe - Pool Pics by Hoppe'.

>Thanks, >Mike

Does that make it sound like we can source their photo? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MichaelJHuman (talk • contribs) 18:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Probably. Do you have a last name and contact info for "Mike"?  If you get me the details I can take care of this at the image page (use e-mail - see e-mail link at top of my userpage; other people's e-mail addresses shouldn't ever be put into WP pages, even talk pages, since spammers can harvest them, even from article histories!)  If you want to do the license tagging and stuff yourself, a good trick is do something like 'Mike Smith, contactable at the site "AZBilliards.com", with a username of "MSmith"', so e-mail address harvesters won't recognize it as an e-mail address but any human could figure it out.  But anyway, I know how to source pics with the right licensing templates, so it might be easier for me to deal with it.  You could just forward me a copy of the e-mail. Might be good for more than one of us to have a copy of it anyway, just in case!
 * Oh! Can you write back and ask him if this means we can use other photos (of other players and stuff) by same photographer?  Their "any of the ones" language suggests this, but I think we should know for certain.  That could come in very, very handy.  Or I can do it; either way. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ? 19:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Charles Dickens on billiards!

 * [This topic was moved here from User talk:SMcCandlish.]

If you have not seen this before (I hadn't), check this out. Who knew? And a rather involved and interesting history it is.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely worth citing, probably on several points and for several reasons in several articles, including Cue sports and carom billiards among others, and American four-ball billiards when that exists (for one thing it's good evidence that the game was known internationally by the date of his British writing). —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 09:40, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Event pics available

 * [This topic was moved here from User talk:SMcCandlish.]]

hi, i know you are a bit interested in billiards, ans so i just wanted to told you, that someone, who was in malta an made picures from the Mosconi Cup allowed me to upload them. Maybe you could put them into the articles and make good subtitles here in the english wiki - i'll do so in the German wiki (my mother tongue as you might have guessed after these lines)... All 18 pics can be found here: commons:Category:Mosconi Cup 2008  Greets --De-tmv23 (talk) 17:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 18 new pool pictures available on Commons from the Mosconi Cup 2008
 * Thanks! —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 17:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * new pics again - not sure if you used the MC pics for the english wiki (if you forgot i either remind or annoy you now), however 6 new pics are uploaded now from the World Pool Masters 2007. To be found on my commons profile page (2nd row the six pics left of the skyscraperpic) --De-tmv23 (talk) 23:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) These pics should be used where possible, e.g. to illustrate the events in question and perhaps some of the players' articles. —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 09:22, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Picture were added to the article. &mdash; 09:41, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a good start, but Mosconi Cup itself, the other tournament article, and various player articles could also probably use some of these pictures. It's been very difficult for us to get any pictures of modern, active pros, so these are quite valuable for us. —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 11:59, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * PS: We should use the gallery function to put all of these pics (that are not already used there) into the articles on the events at which they were taken, too. —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 13:05, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Added all picture with Template:Gallery to the 2008 Mosconi Cup article, but the captions should be altered to better describe the pictures. Armbrust (talk) 14:50, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people
Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:
 * 1) supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
 * 2) opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

✅ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Armbrust (talk • contribs) 11:25, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people
If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here
 * List of cleanup articles for your project

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

Ikip 02:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot
Okip  01:08, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This list is now active. There are currently 15 Unreferenced Cue sports articles. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 20:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Sports notability
There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Emma Bonney
I've established the notability of Emma Bonney by editing the article to show that she is a multiple Ladies Billiards world champion. Over to members of this WP to improve further. Mjroots (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That's our first female English billiards player article. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 06:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Important AfD test case
Golden Cue is up for AfD, at Articles for deletion/The golden cue. This is one of the very few articles ever written here on a cue sports venue (a pool hall in this case). Notability is the main issue, and can be interpreted either way. It's really a borderline case. The outcome may have far-reaching implications for such articles in the future. Obviously, not every pool hall is notable. But some of them surely are. Is this one? That's up to you. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 07:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Category:Cue sports video game stubs nominated for deletion
A stub category which this project uses has been nominated for deletion at Stub types for deletion. The stub type allegedly doesn't meet Wikipedia requirements for a stub type, through failure to meet standards relating to the scope, current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type. This message is boilerplate, left here as a courtesy, and should not be considered personal in nature.


 * This stub type did go through proper proposal channels. I'm not sure why it's being SfD'd now; doesn't make any sense to me. It is a somewhat small stub category, but serves its purposes. The proposal on the table is to delete the category and upmerge the stub type to Category:Sports video game stubs.  I have issues with that myself, but others might agree with the move.  Comments, pro or con, at the SfD would be a good idea (few SfDs generate much commentary at all, frankly). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 00:44, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Important CfD
Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 18 looks like a minor CfD nitpick, but actually has very significant potential consequences for the categorization (and proposed de categorization) of articles within the scope of both WP:CUE and WP:SNOOKER, and the autonomy these projects have in relation to each other (for better or worse). — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:09, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Cue sports articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Cue sports articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (&diams;) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 22:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

List of World Three-cushion Billiards Champions
Perhaps others can help me at: List of World Three-cushion Billiards Champions. Multiple people are listed as that year's champion. I want to know if there were multiple organizations sponsoring titles, and what those organizations were. Most news articles don't list who the sponsoring organization was. Another possibility is that there were two championship matches a year from the same organization. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:13, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Cuemaker nominated for deletion
Articles for deletion/John Parris. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing
I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:21, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Outline of cue sports needed
Sports-related outlines currently under development include:


 * Outline of basketball
 * Outline of tennis
 * Outline of motorcycles and motorcycling
 * Outline of running
 * Outline of cricket

But there is no Outline of cue sports.

Can you guys beat the other Sports WikiProjects to completion?

To create an outline on cue sports, click on the redlink above and add this line:

 baseball 

Then press Save page and start adding relevant subheadings and links.

For the whole set of outlines on Wikipedia, see Portal:Contents/Outlines.

Here are some examples of developed outlines:


 * Outline of cell biology
 * Outline of meteorology (weather)
 * Outline of Iceland
 * Outline of Japan
 * Outline of anarchism
 * Outline of chocolate

The Transhumanist 00:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

CfD on Category:Pool
There is a proposal at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_December_24 to rename Category:Pool to Category:Pool (cue sports) and a counter-proposal to rename both the category and the article to Category:Pocket billiards and Pocket billiards (the original name of Pool (cue sports). The argument for the former is that it would match the disambiguated article name, and for the latter it is that using the industry-standard if less vernacular term simply eliminates any need for disambiguation at all. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 03:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Pool (cue sports) vs. Pocket billiards
This may be of interest to most participants in this project: Talk:Pool (cue sports). The outcome will affect the name of the category, too, which is already at CfD. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 05:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Bar billiards
Hello. I see you're looking for images for Bar billiards. I found some that might be useful on Flickr. I've posted them on Talk:Bar billiards. Cue sports aren't really my area at all so it'd be great if someone could drop by and give an opinion on their suitability for the article. Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 22:48, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Steve Davis/GA1
Steve Davis is going through a GA review, and is on hold for 14 days to allow time to deal with the issues listed on the review page.  SilkTork  *Tea time 13:12, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

2011 World 9-ball championship is ongoing
The 2010 article can be used as a template -- there are templates there that can be used as this year's format is identical to last year's. This event is at WP:ITNR so it better be spruced up or else its listing there may be revoked. – H T  D  19:05, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Popular pages feature
I've put in a request that this project's pages be indexed by Mr.Z-man's "Popular Pages" tool (see User:Mr.Z-man/Popular pages FAQ). It generates a list of project articles by how often they are visited. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

WP:CUEMOS / WP:MOSCUE / MOS:CUE
I've promoted, after years of "not getting around to it", WikiProject Cue sports/Spelling conventions to MOS guideline sub-page status as Manual of Style (cue sports). About time. Manual of Style (snooker) has already been there for ages. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 10:46, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Custom watchlists for cue sports!
How cool! Bot author has come up with some cool stuff that helps us out. It is now trivially easy to watch all cue sports edits from some custom watchlists. I've added them to the project nav banner (see top of WP:CUE, etc.), but you might want to integrate them into your own stuff (Firefox sidebar, whatever). These all even help find pages you should be watching but aren't, and to identify new articles you haven't seen and watchlisted yet, since "Changes to pages on your watchlist are shown in bold", and others aren't.

http://poolcuereview.com http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Cue_sports%2FAdmin&hidemyself=1&hideminor=0&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500
 * Watchlist for all changes to cue sports articles:

You can tweak the,  ,   and   of course. This list is made possible by the WikiProject Cue sports/Admin page cread by tedder's bot. It picks up transcluded templates sometimes; not sure there's a way around that.


 * Watchlist for all changes to cue sports non-articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Cue_sports%2FAdmin2&hidemyself=1&hideminor=0&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500

You can tweak the,  ,   and   of course. This list is made possible by the WikiProject Cue sports/Admin2 page cread by tedder's bot. It picks up transcluded templates sometimes; not sure there's a way around that.


 * Watchlist for all changes to cue sports talk pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Category:All_cue_sports_pages_minus_snooker&hidemyself=1&hideminor=0&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500

This one's just based on a category, and picks up a few non-"Talk:" items in there sometimes.

articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Snooker%2FAdmin&hidemyself=1&hideminor=0&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500
 * Snooker equivalents:

non-articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Snooker%2FAdmin2&hidemyself=1&hideminor=0&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500

talk: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Category:All_snooker_pages&hideminor=0&hidemyself=1&hidebots=0&days=30&limit=500

— SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 20:32, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Problem at Frank Taberski
The article Frank Taberski has a severe problem requiring research and cleanup, in that the most significant fact of his bio – when he won his first World Championship – is off by at least one entire year, one direction or the other, between two reliable sources (the Billiard Congress of America and New York Times material) cited. It's possible that the BCA just has an off-by-one error, but the NYT archives are actually notorious for getting archival dates incorrect, and the PDF of their old article does not actually specify the year in the scan itself. So, this really needs to be sourced by at least two additional, entirely independent sources. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 09:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

AfD against Stefano Pelinga
Articles for deletion/Stefano Pelinga could use some WP:CUE attention. The short version is that his notability has been challenged, but this was after the nominator deleted all the sources (poorly cited, but real). I've suggested that the nomination should be closed as out-of-process, but others may wish to have input on the matter, since just adding the sources back in doesn't necessarily make the subject automatically notable. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 00:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

New WPA world champions have no articles!
Badly needed new bios: Yukio Akakariyama and Bi Zhu Qing (2011 WPA World Nine-ball Champions, male & female respectively). — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 02:14, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If anyone has any time to write even a sourced stub or two, these are the obvious top targets for pool right now. (I don't, or I'd already be on this.) — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 01:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * WPA's own article on Bi Zhu Qing (not sure of family vs. given names): http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=21&pagetype=photo_gallery&eventid=41
 * — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 18:15, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: Also missing are 2011 WPA World Artistic Pool]] Champion Andy Segal (USA) and 2011 WPA World Ten-ball Champion Huidji See (NLD). This is getting embarassing. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 18:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's see if I can find something for Akakariyama. Presumably it's easier to find something for See. I dunno if there's something that can be found for the women players. – H T  D  18:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Brackets
I was going to create an article for the 2011 U.S. Open 9-ball Championship but we'd need a 256-player double elimination bracket. I dunno how that can be done (would a 16-player double elim bracket divided into 16 sections, plus a final bracket, work?), and I don't want to do what was done in the 2010 U.S. Open 9-ball Championship where it's like a maze. – H T  D  18:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That would probably work. See the snooker world championship articles, e.g. 2011 World Snooker Championship, for how some other big events have been dealt with. PS: See MOS:CUE; the event title should be given as 2011 U.S. Open Nine-ball Championship. — SMcCandlish    Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 12:45, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I tried applying the brackets there before but it didn't work, basically there were rounds were there were byes; hence I tried splitting it up into 16 brackets: the winners bracket turned out fine but the losers' brackets were a maze. If someone is willing to slave on a 256-team double elim bracket it would've been perfect. – H T  D  12:52, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Try enlisting aid at WT:SNOOKER; several editors there churn out complicated tournament brackets as if it's nothing. Beats me how; makes my brain hurt. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 05:12, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If ever they create one humongous 256-team double-elim bracket, I think it's a buzzkill. Not only is it hard to use, it's also hard to read. Have you seen the AZBilliards' brackets? – H T  D  06:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * They've figured ways of splitting it up that seem to work. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 06:16, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Hot articles subscription
Your Hot articles subscription is complete. The daily list can be found here. Feel free to integrate this into your WikiProject page however you like by adding the WikiText. Kaldari (talk) 22:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Here's how it looks (live):

Wikimedians to the Games: Paralympic cue sport events
If you're participating or considering in participating in Wikimedians to the Games, you may be interested in attending the events below. They may provide an opportunity to get information to write a Wikinews article or to take pictures for points on Commons. If you're not participating, it would still be great to see people attending these events to take pictures for use on Wikipedia and Wikinews. If you do decide to attend, consider hosting a Wikimedia meetup at the end or the evening of the event, or even just letting HOPAU organisers know you are planning to attend. If you leave a message on my talk page, I can help you promote the meetup. :) If you need help with organising attendance because of transport cost issues or accessibility in terms of wanting press access, again please get in touch. :) --LauraHale (talk) 07:17, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Cue sports in South Australia
 * Wednesday 21 March 2012 02:00pm - 04:00pm   Cue Sports Program - South Australia
 * Wednesday 18 April 2012 02:00am - 04:00pm   Cue Sports Program - South Australia


 * Is there any info anywhere on what they mean by "cue sports"? I'm guessing surely snooker, but I don't know what else is popular and competitive in Australia these days – English billiards, "American style" nine-ball and eight-ball (solids and stripes), "British style" blackball/8-ball-pool (reds & yellows), three-cushion billiards? — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 06:29, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

New Template:Accu-Stats for citing their videos more easily
This may be especially useful for Glossary of cue sports terms.

One-off usage: 

Article text.

Produces:

Article text.

...

Multiple citations: See the template documentation for two different options.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by SMcCandlish (talk • contribs) 12:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:Cuegloss now easier to use!
You can now just do to link terms in articles to their entries in the glossary of cue sports terms if the term and the linked text are the same except for capitalization, because the template will normalize the case.


 * Old:
 * New:

You still need both parameters if they don't match:


 * Complex:

If the same term is cuegloss-linked twice in the same article (or at all inside the glossary itself), use instead of, for technical reasons.

— SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 06:25, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

New template for extlinking to AzBilliards player profiles, 2000 to present
Template:AzB player. It uses the AzBilliards player profile  ID. There's not an index of them on AzBilliards.com I've found yet, but you can google for them with: " Firstname Lastname site:http://azbilliards.com/thepros/" (without the quotes).

Example basic usage:



— SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿ ¤ þ  Contrib.  00:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Andy Segal article has WP:V, WP:COI and other issues
A notable professional player (one with an article here) contacted me directly with the following, about artistic pool (and I've paraphrased a little, e.g. to add links, and to shorten/clarify some stuff):

I just stumbled upon Andy Segal's Wikipedia article. It seems very biased. Many of the alleged facts stated in that page are not cited to reliable sources and, in my opinion and experience, are not even true in some cases. Only official competitions, sanctioned or televised, should be mentioned in a champion's bio. Mr. Segal is personally hosting several events a year for his own purposes, but they are sanctioned by any sport governing body. The events use his own shots and rules, and only his friends are invited. The article appears to promote these private events, and seems to have been written or extensively edited by him or someone close to him. I could host similar things in my basement just about every weekend, but that would not make them notable. There is no value to most of the "titles" he lists and his page definitely needs to be fixed to comply with Wikipedia standards.

I'm in the process of moving across the country and have only intermittent Internet access, so I'm not in a position to do anything about this myself right now.

Further discussion should be at Talk:Andy Segal.

— SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿ ¤ þ  Contrib.  04:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

"Bevington Smuts" vandalism
Hi folks, You might want to keep an eye out for a vandalism relating to "Bevington Smuts". I have just found a handful of snooker players whose personal life biogs have been amended to suggest they are descendents from the "microscopic laundrette impresario, Bevington Smuts"...!! Mark Allen, Shaun Murphy, Stephen Lee, Walter Lindrum have been targeted over the last few weeks by and. There may be more, but those are the ones from the two IPs I've mentioned.

Best wishes, and enjoy the UK Championships! &mdash;User:MDCollins (talk) 02:00, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Cuegloss
The Cuegloss template was nominated for deletion at Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_June_26. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to join a discussion
Through this way, I inform there is a discussion at WT:Disambiguation about partially disambiguated titles, known as "PDABs". This subguide of WP:D affects articles in this WikiProject, some examples can be found at WP:NCSP. There you can give ideas or thoughts about what to do with this guideline. Note this discussion is not to modify any aspect of NCSP. Thanks. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  01:06, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Flag usage on sports articles
A discussion has begun to outline usage of flags on sports articles and to review their usage. Sports articles have long diverged from what is stated in the manual of style. Please comment on the proposals and add suggestions by contributing at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. Thanks. SFB 13:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

TfD notices
Two of WP:CUE's single-source citation templates have been nominated for deletion: — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  08:08, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Templates for discussion/Log/2015 February 25
 * Templates for discussion/Log/2015 February 25

Cue tip size
I've asked a question about the conversion of measurements of cue tip sizes at talk:Cue stick. I'm soliciting wider input as that was the first edit to the page since 2012 and it doesn't appear widely watched. Please comment there to avoid duplication. Thanks, Thryduulf (talk) 19:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

UMB website links
There appears to be a task ahead of those of us interested: the UMB, the governing body of carom billiards, seems to have moved their website from umb.com to umb-carom.com, thereby invalidating every link to their site that we have in articles. As many of those links are to specific subpages, and the new website has an entirely different structure, a simple bot task replacing the "umb" in URLs with "umb-carom" is not going to work. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that many of the old pages don't have clear replacements. This is going to be a fairly large manual undertaking, and frankly I'm not sure where to start, being that carol carom is not a variety I'm particularly familiar with. In other words, I am unable to help with the solution, but I figured it'd be better to note the problem so others that do know the sport better can take a crack at it. oknazevad (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Blech. Hopefully archive.org can recover a lot of them, and site-specific Google searches can find where some of have moved to in the new site.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  01:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

André Gagnaux
André Gagnaux was categorized under Category:Cue sports referees and officials, which is tagged as a container (subcats only), but I'm unsure whether it belongs in one of the existing subcats, needs a new subcat, or something else. Slivicon (talk) 23:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Good catch. That category isn't ready to be a container cat. yet; it would need a Category:Carom billiards referees and officials subcat., but there's only one member to put in there as far as present articles go, named Gagnaux. I commented out the container cat. tag.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  01:55, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

DRV of cue sport citation template
Please see: Deletion review/Log/2015 August 21

— Preceding unsigned comment added by SMcCandlish (talk • contribs) 04:26, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Kings Cup
Is the Kings Cup (being held in Manila in November 2015) a major pool event? -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 06:39, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

The use of self-published sources in snooker articles
There is an RFC relevant to this project regarding the use of personal blogs and fansites in snooker articles. So far there has only been one respondent but I would like to get further input since a large number of articles are affected: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Snooker. Betty Logan (talk) 07:23, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Cue sports nav box matter
Your (plural) input is requested at Template talk:Cue sports nav. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  17:55, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Blackball Pool
The content relating to Blackball Pool really needs to start again from scratch I think. There are both misleading and incorrect statements. The structure would benefit from a revamp.

I could help with this. There would I believe need to be more specifically about blackball. That after all is the title of the article. An accurate summary of the actual rules of blackball is clearly necessary... and a little less information about WEPF rules which, if wanted, could be detailed (linked) in a completely separate article.

I'd structure it roughly along these lines.

Blackball Brief Overview

History...
 * 8ball pool and its introduction to UK from USA.
 * Development and increasing popularity.
 * Reasons.
 * Introduction in pubs and clubs.
 * Variations in rules.
 * Individual and team competition.
 * Leagues, then governing bodies were created.
 * Role of UK and South Africa in spreading blackball game worldwide.
 * WPA involvement.
 * Pub closure effects.
 * Pool Halls increasingly providing blackball facilities.

Blackball Equipment...
 * Balls.
 * Tables.
 * Cloth fabric.
 * etc.
 * Changes in equipment over time.
 * Differences from other cue sports.

Rules...
 * 8ball.
 * Pub/Club Rules and variations.
 * BAPTO Rules.
 * WEPF Rules.
 * Blackball.
 * Comparison of rules.
 * Merits of WPA blackball.

Unification...
 * Confusion.
 * Antagonism.
 * WPA Meeting 2004.
 * Purpose.
 * Progress.
 * Minor rules update 2008.
 * Organisations/events subsequently switching to blackball.

Blackball Today...
 * Current popularity.
 * Countries playing.
 * Live streaming growth.
 * Organisations running blackball events eg IPA.
 * Major events.

Use of Internet...
 * Increasing at all levels.
 * Promoting game and events.
 * Streaming.
 * Providing live results.
 * Custom websites.
 * Blogs.
 * Facebook and twitter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackballuk (talk • contribs) 23:41, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Governing Bodies.

Past Championships Winners.

Links.

Best Regards, Bill Hunter Blackballuk (talk) 23:33, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Eight-ball variations
Please see Talk:Eight-ball. There are several variations that may need to be covered and are not (plus a few asserted that are probably just regional WP:NFT material we shouldn't be covering). — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  09:41, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Sang Lee International Open and Verhoeven Open
Please see split proposal at what is presently Talk:Verhoeven Open (after an undiscussed move and questionable scope expansion to cover two unrelated events). — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:36, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Artistic pool, and sources
We really need to do a proper Artistic pool article (it presently just redirects to a section at Trick shot). This has become a major cue sport with a lot of television coverage, and today way more amateur (thanks to Tom Rossman's efforts in running side events at amateur eight-ball league national championships for many years; I was in one of those!) and professional, international competition than a decade ago when it was basically Mike Massey and and handful of other guys.

I've been alerted by Rossman to the fact that ArtisticPoolPlayers.com, which is frequently cited at pages like Andy Segal, is a one-author blog, and thus not a reliable source per WP:SPS. There are various sites run but league organizations that are more reliable, but he suggests using http://wpa~apd.com, since it's run by the World Pool-Billiard Association, the primary sport governing body for cue sports other than snooker and three-cushion. I'm not sure if it will have information on all titles and tournaments or just WPA ones, but at any rate it's going to be the no. 1 source for WPA artistic pool stats, since it's the most official source of them.

PS: I'm going to post a copy of this over at Talk:Trick shot. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  10:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

High-priority article to create: Chinese pool
Chinese pool a.k.a. Chinese eight-ball pool, not to be confused with Chinese eight-ball (Chinese 8-ball).

This is a new-ish variant of eight-ball, using snooker-style rails and pockets. It is sanctioned by the WPA, and open to international amateur and professional competition; redlink from Darren Appleton, List of world eight-ball champions, etc. Needs to be disambiguated from "Chinese eight-ball" which isn't really Chinese.

Mention of it needs to be integrated into key articles like Eight-ball, Blackball (pool), Cue sports, World Pool-Billiard Association, etc. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  20:23, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

English dialect, a two articles
Please see Talk:Billiard table; the discussion there about which variant of English to use has implications for that article and Billiard ball as well. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  13:09, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Lynette Horsburgh AfD
Please see Articles for deletion/Lynette Horsburgh. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:09, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Reliable sources?
Hi All,

Does anyone have any good place for sourcing for Pool articles (Specifically, the World 9-Ball Championships, and the world cup of Pool events). There seems to be a lot of issues with using azbilliards, as it's stuck behind a paywall. Is there anywhere else for match results?  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:28, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

The Color of Money
The Color of Money was a nine-ball challenge match between Efren Reyes and Earl Strickland in 1996. As some of you might know, the match is named after the film starring Tom Cruise. Because of that, I wonder if its a good idea to put some information about the match in some "Legacy" section in the film's article? 2605:E000:2E54:8F0:4C03:70A9:D87A:F1FE (talk) 20:57, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Infobox Pool Player
Hi all,

I've created a very basic trial for Template:Infobox pool player. See how it looks, and if any of the fields need changing. It seemed a bit odd that we have hunreds of BLPs, whilst we had only the infobox person and infobox Snooker to deal with. Any questions, hints or distain, let me know.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:29, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Summary of user talk feedback: Great idea; Pool is a DAB page; Nickname need not be linked; people will probably want parameters for reported earnings, and for world records.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Commentator comments
Is it okay to use commentator comments from televised matches as sources? Rattatast (talk) 15:41, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Generally speaking, this would be a fat no. There are always exceptions to any sourcing rules. I could see any arguement for potentially WP:BLP articles to have it sourced for nicknames, or similar. We generally use WP:RS to make arguments on Wikipedia.


 * What were you trying to source?  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:07, 6 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Occasionally during matches, commentators would talk about a player's past. Therefore this sometimes makes them providers of such information. Rattatast (talk) 18:15, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

AfD notice for American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship
Please see Articles for deletion/American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship.

While it hasn't been suggested yet, it would actually be possible to merge this with U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship in a re-organized article. The current tournament by that name, and the American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship, are both modern attempts to fill the gap left by the demise of the original, historical U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship (which was under different management – the modern tournament by that name is not actually the same event but simply has the same name). I'm not sure I would support such a merge, and it would require rewriting the base article at U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship, to identify an original tournament by that name and two successor tournaments, one also named U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship and one named American 14.1 Straight Pool Championship. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:32, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Various improvements
Merry christmas. In an attempt to get the WP:CUE wikiproject active again, I've fully updated our list of to dos. I will be doing some more updates to other things, but here is what I view as the most important areas to improve/create/update:


 * 1) Create BLPs. We have a list at WP:CUEBIOS; although checking out the Wikipedia is a great place to find current bios, or at least sourcing for any bios. Anyone who has at least reached a quarter-final in a world title is notable, as far as I'm concerned. If you struggle, anyone who has played in the Mosconi Cup needs an article; or any world champion.
 * 2) Tournament articles. See WP:CUEEVENTS. I see us requiring at least all of the main tournament articles to be completed. The big one is World 14.1 Continuous Championship. After the main tournaments articles, articles for individual year events such as the 2009 WPA World Eight-ball Championship. A lot of these already have the brackets on the German wikipedia that simply need to be translated/changed formats.
 * 3) WP:CUEGAMES - Articles on versions of pool sports. Information on Hand billiards; Artistic pool; and some information on Continuous pool.
 * 4) The new Infobox pool player needs adding to all pool BLPs (unless they are predominantly a Snooker player).

I have a gold account (and, could potentially sort one out for others who are interested) for azbilliards. This is the best place for sourcing/information; and they have been very supportive to me in the past. I'm currently speaking to the WPA for additional sourcing materials. In addition to the above, I have put an auto-archive on this page (as it's huge), and I will work on some templates to bring in new members. Thanks for reading.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Also, as an aside, inviting new members to the wikiproject is as simple as posting: on a userpage, which will display the following  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 16:38, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Ronnie O'Sullivan's 15 Reds-15 Pinks vs Stephen Maguire
I'm surprised to see that Ronnie's 15 Red-15 Pinks vs Stephen Maguire is missing from the Wiki bio on him.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 15 Pink Finisher vs Stephen Maguire 2006 UK Championship I think it should be included. It need not be under a separate subject/headline, just integrated with the natural flow. Moitraanak (talk) 19:34, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 * A YouTube video of him completing the pink ball maximum isn't really enough. Is there any news sources that commented on it? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:36, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 * You'd also be better off posting these sorts of questions at WP:SNOOKER. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:48, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Snooker for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Snooker is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Snooker until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 04:33, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Two month virtual editathon on Women in Sports
WikiProject Women in Red is devoting the next two months (July and August) to a virtual editathon on Women in Sports. Please take this opportunity to write more articles about women in cue sports who lag far behind men on Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 07:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Infobox template discussion
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker/Archives/2020/March, which also involves discussion of player infoboxes for non-snooker cue disciplines. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:10, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Help with a little bit of "unhelpful editing"
Hi all. There were three edits on the World Billiards Championship (English billiards) article made on 6 November that ought to be reverted. I think there should be more to addressing this than just undoing those edits, would someone more experienced than I am in these matters please be able to take a look? Thanks in advance. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:57, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If it was just the last three edits, I reverted as clear vandalism. Probably could give them a warning, but couldn't see the point as it wasn't that bad. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:34, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks - again! BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Missing players lists
Hi! I have a few lists for players that are on wikidata, but not on wikipedia (for whatever reason) that updates every now and again. These also contain links to images on commons, and links to other language wikipedias. It might be a good idea to look through and see which ones are deemed as notable on en.wiki.


 * Cue sports players
 * Women only cue sport players

I also have this list of articles that do currently exist. It might be a good one to watchlist, as it shows new articles and articles that have recently been deleted:


 * Current cue sport articles‎

Let me know if these are helpful, or if they need tweaking. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:37, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I find these helpful, thanks. Redlisted John Roberts (Q20804729) has an article at John Roberts Sr.. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:20, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * These are based on wikidata. The item is now linked on there, so if will update with the next listeria bot update. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:08, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

AZ Billiards subscription
Hello. I was wondering if anyone has a subscription to AZ Billiards. I have at least ten statements that need verification at Talk:Gerda Hofstätter/GA1 but are unfortunately hidden behind a paywall. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:33, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

WP Cue sports, Ongoing activities section, new links
Greetings - Saw your 2011 request here and thought to let you know. Today I added link to monthly "Popular pages" and daily "Quality operations" log. JoeNMLC (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :-) Has it really been that long?  I feel like a wiki-fossil. Heh.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Article on Kamal Chawla
Hello, I have created an article “Draft: Kamal Chawla” which has been in review for about 5+ weeks now. This article is on Kamal Chawla who is a Billiards/Snooker player and has represented India in multiple events and won awards. Wanted to check if there is a way to expedite the review process. I have resolved all open comments so far on this article, hence wanted to check how soon this can be published. Kcsnooker (talk) 17:44, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Draft: Kamal Chawla? I'll take a look. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it's very likely this person isn't all that notable. The article is quite promotional, and you probably have a WP:COI with the subject. Also, you suggested that the subject had a third place on the 2011 World Snooker Championship which is incredibly over exaggerated. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A review of WP:NPOV and MOS:TONE are probably in order. The material cannot read like a profile in a magazine.  Encyclopedic writing is very "dry".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the prompt response and review comments provided. Please find below my responses: 1. I re-looked at the article and made few wording changes to avoid the article seeming to be promotional. Entire content now is based on facts with references provided. It would really help if you share any segment which seems promotional and I would be happy to make further edits. 2. Yes, I have COI with the subject as I know the person, hence in full transparency called that out. Please do let me know if this is an issue. Since all the content is based on facts (which are referenced too), I hope COI is not a problem. 3. I do not see a reference to World Snooker championship of 2011, England in the article. The article references IBSF World Snooker Championship at Bangalore in 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcsnooker (talk • contribs) 16:43, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello, bumping up this thread to see if there are any more questions! Kcsnooker (talk) 14:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Pichenotte nominated for deletion or merger
Please see Articles for deletion/Pichenotte. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:28, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

The Cue sports Barnstar


Introducing Template:The Cue sports Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 03:11, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Stein & Rubino's Billiards Encyclopedia for cheap
At the risk of sounding spammy, I want to note that Stein & Rubino's huge Billiards Encyclopedia (3rd and probably final edition) is on deep discount at eBay. One of the authors is selling off what must be his personal stockpile of them. Not unusual; my old Protecting Yourself Online book was something I had several cases of (though I mostly gave them away). Anyway, S&R's book and Shamos's New Encyclopedia of Billiards are key sources in this topic area (though avoid the original edition, without "New" in the title, and the red-cover version under a different title, which is the same text as the original); the newer edition had many additions and corrections made to it. I looked, and it is also much cheaper on eBay for now than Amazon, and I'm seeing this a lot (at least with games- and sports-related nonfiction, which is what I was looking at). That can change at any times, so it's always a good idea to check both before buying a book to use as a source. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:53, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I checked this out. I picked up Shamos' book, sadly Stein & Rubino's book was still up at well over £100 for me, and postage is about £20 for me in the UK, which is a bit too rich for my blood. I feel a membership to the BNA would be of more use. Thanks for letting me know though! Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Request for Comment on SSN at WP:Notability (sports)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:55, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Delet
Hi! Can you Help me? Is it normal to delet national Snooker Champions? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andreas_Ploner Piinkkii (talk) 00:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Cue sports portal
Portal:Cue sports is back, new and improved compared to the old (deleted) version. The Portal:Cue sports/Selected articles page could use more entries, so if anyone here is into it, feel free to add more articles there. North America1000 09:44, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't say I understand the need for portals, but at least there is plenty of quality content to fill it up. Might be worth a message at WT:SNOOKER too, which is more active. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:28, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Is Chris Turner's Snooker Archive a reliable source?
Opinions are being sought here. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

World Straight Pool Championship
The World Straight Pool Championship is a pool tournament where some editions were sanctioned to be world championships while the rest, which makes up the majority, weren't. The reason why I posted this was that some users removed the editions from 2009 and 2011-2019 because those events weren't sanctioned. I think those unsanctioned events can be included because those events and the ones that sanctioned are basically the same tournament. What do you think? 104.172.112.209 (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, they should be included, or the article is incomplete. We should just be clear in the article about which ones were WPA sanctioned and which were not.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:37, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Leed andrew goes against the idea of including the unsanctioned editions in the article simply because they weren't sanctioned. Yes, some editions of Charlie Williams' 14.1 tournament were WPA-sanctioned while others weren't. But beyond the sanctioning statuses of the editions, everything is the same when it comes to how they were presented and played. 104.172.112.209 (talk) 02:45, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Unsanctioned titles shouldn't be included, as it falsely promotes them as valid when they are not. Dragon Promotions have a vested interest in making their unsanctioned tournament sound important in order to sell entries for it, which still gets barely any notice. Wikipedia is not here to promote a minor tournament on behalf of its organizers. oknazevad (talk) 19:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The events from 1912 to 1920 weren't sanctioned by any governing body yet they're included in the article. 104.172.112.209 (talk) 20:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * They're historic events from before the formation of the governing bodies and the winners have long been retroactively recognized by the WPA and BCA as historic champions. That's entirely different than a current promoter claiming their tournament is a world title with no sanctioning. oknazevad (talk) 20:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's what happened. When Charlie Williams staged his straight pool tournaments, the 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2010 editions were sanctioned by the WPA to be world championships. The WPA stopped sanctioning the tournament in later editions because of financial problems. But despite that, the unsanctioned editions are pretty much the same as the sanctioned ones in terms of the quality of the players, the format, and the presentation. 104.172.112.209 (talk) 02:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * But they remain unsanctioned. And, frankly, I dispute the claim that they are pretty much the same in terms of quality. They struggled to fill the brackets and had a lot of no-name players. It's obvious from looking at the paltry coverage they received on AZ Billiards that any claim to world championship status was dubious. I'm beginning to wonder why you're so insistent on including unsanctioned events, to be frank. oknazevad (talk) 03:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * While the unsanctioned events are definitely not world championships, they retained the spirit of their sanctioned world championship counterparts. 104.172.112.209 (talk) 23:07, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That's just a sad statement. And totally POV. oknazevad (talk) 14:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Whether the "quality" (which WP has nothing to say about, being a PoV matter) has slipped is irrelevant. The article coverage will be incomplete and downright misleading without the unsanctioned years. The event did not just stop, it simply changed business arrangements. Whether one source likes to continue devoting heavy coverage to it or not is irrelevant.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:17, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. If it's not sanctioned it's not a world championship. Period.Including it is promotional and POV. oknazevad (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * True, the unsanctioned events are not world championships. But those events and the WPA-sanctioned ones are still the same tournament. Though the promoter is unable to get a governing body have any involvement in the later editions of his tournament because of money issues, a number of things are kept. The format is the same, the style of which the tournament is presented is the same, and players who finished first, second, and third still get to stand on a podium and be medaled. The sanctioning maybe gone, but the essence still exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.172.112.209 (talk) 09:17, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

RfD
Please see: Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 25 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:34, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:56, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

List of champions
I've been wondering. When creating a table listing the champions of a tournament, the champions are usually listed from earliest to latest. It is normal and traditional to write first what came first.

In the article U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship, the champions used to be listed earliest to latest. But some later users, mostly IPs, relisted the champions from latest to earliest. What kind of style is that? Rattatast (talk) 16:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Where did newest first become traditional?
 * These should be sortable, so it shouldn't really be an issue.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:48, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The idea of listing things from latest to earliest, I don't know where it is traditional, but I see it as unnatural. Rattatast (talk) 01:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Sudden Death Seven-ball
Someone's put a WP:Proposed deletion tag on Sudden Death Seven-ball. As sources about it seem few and far between, I've not been inclined to remove the prod tag, since WP:AFD would probably delete the stub. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

AfD: Virtual Pool 4
Please see: Articles for deletion/Virtual Pool 4  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Major table deletion at List of world three-cushion billiards champions
Please see Talk:List of world three-cushion billiards champions. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

AfD: Sudden Death Seven-ball
Please see: Articles for deletion/Sudden Death Seven-ball  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

List of cue sports media?
What do we collectively think about a List of cue sports media article, for TV shows, video games, etc.? Lots of such stuff doesn't quite meet the WP:Notability threshold for individual stand-alone articles, but seems to meet the WP:NOT threshold for entries in a list article. I had the recently deleted Sudden Death Seven-ball userspaced to User:SMcCandlish/Incubator/Sudden Death Seven-ball to cannibalize for a list entry, and there were several previously deleted TV shows and video games that could also be WP:REFUNDed for such a purpose. There are off-site articles and lists we can draw on, e.g. here, and here and so on, probably also some for games. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:32, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Shakeup/drama with WPA in the pro-pool news; also, Fedor Gorst playing for the US
From what I can gather from this billiards news pience, with a cagey interview with a WPA rep, WPA has instituted a new rule that pro players will be barred (starting in March 2024) from WPA-sanctioned events for 6 months after participation in any non-WPA-sanctioned events (plus lose all their WPA ranking points, and be subject to a US$500 fine), causing some pros to just abandon WPA entirely and go with events organized by Matchroom Sport, et al. Need to find more info about what's going on, though, from other sources if possible. The Shane Tyree interviewed was speaking as the North American WPA rep, but is also the current head of the BCA. The drama relates to a 2022 decision by Matchroom Sport to stop seeking WPA sanctioning for Matchroom-organized events. WPA's position is that Matchroom's setting up of unsanctioned events all over the world undermines WPA's ability to "govern" the sport and reach its eventual Olympic goals. One particular issue was Matchroom scheduling events that have direct date conflicts with "official" WPA ones. As Mosconi Cup is no longer WPA sactioned, this is forcing some top pros to pick a side. And the impact on lower-ranked players is going to be more marked in Europe (especially Germany) and some parts of Asia, where WPA federations have been subsidizing players (giving them more reason to side with WPA), unlike in the US were the BCA (the WPA affiliate for North America, narrowly defined as the US and Canada) doesn't do much for players, perhaps giving N.Am. players a greater incentive to jump ship to a non-WPA schedule, especially since there is more money available via Matchroom and other non-WPA events (the US is chock full of independent tournaments). A salient quote from host Panozzo: "The players who were quick to make a definitive statement are all behind Matchroom. I have yet to see a single comment from anyone saying 'I'm 100% WPA. Go team! [49:43] The piece seems to indicate that BCA did not really go along with this larger WPA decision willingly. And the pushing out to a deadline about 6 months away is seen as leaving room open for more negotiation between the WPA governing-body NGO and the Matchroom for-profit organization. More detail might be extractable from the interview segement (I didn't pore over all of it), but it has to be taken as primary-source material, that is also being phrased very carefully as PR and policy-stance-taking, like a statement from a politician. The relevant material in the longer clip ends at 1:16:38.

Just the interview:

Longer show with some additional background, pertinenet material starting at 42:24 (and includes the above interview segment, starting 50:40):

Some other news earlier in the longer piece is that Fedor Gorst of Russia has been granted permanent US residency, and while originally slated to play for Team Europe in the upcoming Mosconi Cup will actually be playing for Team USA.

Anyway, I'm not in a rush to go edit articles with this material yet; thought it better to bring it here for further looking first. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

B-checklist in project template
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists. &#x0020;This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted-in to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. DFlhb (talk) 11:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

All Japan Championship (pool) AKA Japan Open needs work
Please see: Talk:All Japan Championship (pool). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)