Talk:Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu

English name
The article states that this series is called The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice in English. Is that just a convenience translation or does it have some sort of 'official' status? If the latter, then shouldn't this article be moved to the English name (obviously with a redirect from the current name), given that this is the English-language Wikipedia? Compare with how eg. Immortals is under its English name (not under Yaşamayanlar); same with Three Monkeys (not Üç Maymun); ditto Memed, My Hawk (not İnce Memed), etc. And yes, I'm aware that there are also many that are listed under their Turkish names, but I think they (those that have 'official' English names) could/should equally be moved. Any thoughts? (Tagging the article creator for comments.) Cheers, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , it has an official status (a few sources that call it this:, , ) but I think it should stay the way it is now because it is most commonly known this way by English-speaking people and I think an article title for a television series is decided by how they are referred to most commonly. Even IMDb refers to it as this. Limorina (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi I'm not sure IMDb is the arbiter here, they're not even considered RS on Wikipedia, and I don't know what their naming etc. policies are in this respect. As for how English-speakers refer to this series, what's the evidence that they "most commonly" use the Turkish original name? Thanks, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , I just said IMDb to strengthen my point a little. Websites that air the series with English subtitles refer to it with the Turkish original title. I personally would search the Turkish title rather than the English one (I didn't even know that there was an official English title before creating the article), and there really isn't many sources (in English) that use the English title. You can do a WP:RM if you like. Thanks. Limorina (talk) 17:53, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * fine, but the point surely isn't how you would search for it; in any case, in your earlier comment you said that how it's "most commonly known [...] by English-speaking people", and I'm asking how do you know that? Similar case: I might search for the Finnish TV series by its original name Sorjonen, and when I do, it finds it, and redirects me to the article under its English name Bordertown (Finnish TV series), because (presumably) that's how it's mostly known in the international markets. Also, see WP:UE, which seems to suggest the English name should prevail, unless there's a good reason not to. Best, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , unofficial websites that air the television series with English subtitles (two examples:, ) nearly all the time call it Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu. Most sources refer to it like this and those that don't refer to it by its old name, Nizam-ı Alem. WP:UE says "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject." As you can see, most sources in the article call it Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu. Limorina (talk) 08:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * the passage from WP:UE you've quoted doesn't apply here; it refers to Anglicisation: if, for example, there was no standard rendering of Atatürk's name in English — being shown variously as Ataturk, Atatuerk or Atatürk — you should in such instances go with the original.
 * In any case, why are you so much insisting on keeping this on the Turkish title, against the principle of using English-language names on English-language wiki? It seems your main argument is that that's how most people (allegedly; no evidence presented so far) would search for it, but a simple redirect will take care of that anyway. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , the evidence for that most-commonly-thing is that most or nearly all sources refer to it with the Turkish title, even in this article, and that there are more sources using its old title (Nizam-ı Alem) than the English one. I think that the "principle of using English-language names" may not apply if most sources use the original title. Limorina (talk) 09:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * well of course the sources cited refer to it by its Turkish name — they're all Turkish sources! What else you got? --DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , I was still typing before you replied. I was going to say this: The "principle of using English-language names" does not apply if most sources use the original title per WP:EN. And if I misunderstood and it is referring to English sources then still it should be the original title because unofficial websites that air the series with English subtitles (referenced before) use the original title too. Limorina (talk) 09:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Further to what said, the series is aired under the name Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu in the UK. As I said below, the same applies for using the Turkish name with Diriliş: Ertuğrul, Kuruluş: Osman and Payitaht: Abdülhamid, as they are most commonly referred to with those names. As someone who has occasionally watched UBS with English subtitles, and is familiar with lots of people that regularly do, I had never heard of that English name before I saw it on this article. IronManCap (talk) 11:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , maybe DE should be called Resurrection Ertuğrul as it is referred to as that on Netflix (Turkish television series on Netflix are usually referred to with their English names on WP like Rise of Empires: Ottoman and The Protector) and in many English sources. Limorina (t • c) 08:53, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * If we did that, KO would have to be called "Establishment: Osman" for consistency, which would be a bit odd for readers. There are quite a few sources calling DE by the Turkish name as well. Maybe we could have Resurrection: Ertuğrul as a name underneath Diriliş: Ertuğrul in the ‘name’ parameter for the article. IronManCap (talk) 14:38, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 28 March 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 10:25, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

– The creator of these articles confirms (see earlier section) that the English-language title has at least some official or accepted standing. Wikipedia article naming convention WP:UE states that English names should be used on the English-language wiki. It seems unlikely that most users of the English-language wiki would search for this subject using its original Turkish name. (PS: A redir exists at The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice pointing to the Turkish name; I am effectively proposing that the redir operate in the opposite direction instead.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu → The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice
 * Episode 1 (Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu) → Episode 1 (The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice)
 * List of Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu cast members → List of The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice cast members
 * Strongly oppose: most readers interested would search using this name, this is what it is most commonly referred to even in the UK. There are pages such as Diriliş: Ertuğrul, Kuruluş: Osman and Payitaht: Abdülhamid, all Turkish series watched in large numbers by a non-Turkish audience. The creator of these articles also has admitted to not being familiar with the series, which is likely why they originally named it with the English name, see my talk page. IronManCap (talk) 10:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, it is unlikely many viewers of the series would be familiar with the English name, I certainly wasn’t. IronManCap (talk) 10:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Equally well, one could say that it is unlikely many (non-Turkish-speaking) users of the English-language wiki would even know how to spell the Turkish title. And I don't think WP:OSE is a convincing argument, and in any case could be argued either way, as I've already mentioned earlier. But fine, you've expressed your view; let's see what others have to say about it. I'm going to step back now and let this run its course. Thanks, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Although this show has received very little English language coverage (consisting of Anadolu Agency and other minor sites), most of it uses the Turkish title (albeit Anglicized as Uyanis Buyuk Selcuklu). MSG17 (talk) 23:08, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per what I said here. Limorina (t • c) 08:48, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.