Talk:Visium Asset Management

Biography
I've tentatively restored the bio, but I see no justifiable reason to remove the content. Can you please explain why you removed it? Lots of articles have sections like that. – MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:50, 24 January 2020 (UTC)


 * That other articles may do something, doesn't mean that's a thing that should be done. This is an article about the company, not about the individual - that content is misplaced here. If he's notable, he should have his own article; if he's not, we shouldn't be trying to shoehorn him in here. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:22, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * To be honest I think on balance I concur with MJL here. I think the sources out there do establish notability for Jacob Gottlieb, independently from the company, but per WP:NOPAGE there is no obligation for us to have a standalone article on him - "There are other times when it is better to cover notable topics, that clearly should be included in Wikipedia, as part of a larger page about a broader topic, with more context" - I think grouping Gottlieb in with the Visium aticle is a fairly good example of exactly that, as is the Charlie Kirk example mentioned above. Of course, if it was later decided to add further info about Gottlieb and expand into a full article then it could later be split off, but for now I would say as he's a crucial figure in the company, and the company is crucial to his notability, then it complements the rest of this short article to have his mini-bio here. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 22:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * When I reviewed the article for DYK, I was initially a bit skeptical that such a section was appropriate but after thinking about it for a bit I decided that it was a sensible way to present the topic(s) covered here by reliable sources and took no issue with it in the review. I think Amakuru's argument is a strong one. — Bilorv ( talk ) 00:55, 25 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Amakuru's argument though raises an additional concern: because the article is quite short, even a mini-bio is proportionally large. Additionally details of the individual's early life for example are not contextualized by information about the company, whereas in the cases described at NOPAGE the topics are sub-subjects of the articles in which they appear. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:09, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see the proportional size as a concern given the proportion of coverage given to VAM and to Gottleib. Gottleib's career makes up most of the mini-bio and his previous roles and qualifications are certainly relevant to the history/context of VAM. I'm seeing a consensus here for inclusion of the content so I'd like it to be readded so that the DYK can go ahead as planned. — Bilorv ( talk ) 00:48, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I've re-restored it per above. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:06, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * May I suggest a potential compromise? (And I don't think this detail should in any way hold up the DYK.) How about nixing the infobox person in the Gottlieb section, and instead having an infobox company in the lead? It doesn't look like the infobox person has any content that isn't already in the prose of the section, and having a person infobox but not a company infobox can visually draw undue attention to the person (and potentially confuse the reader about whether this is an article about a person or a company, at least at first glance). I think having a company infobox, and not a person infobox, would be more balanced without losing any of the content of the Gottlieb section, which I agree is appropriate here per WP:NOPAGE. Levivich 18:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Hit piece

 * No problem with the DYK. But the whole article seems heavily slanted to read like a hit piece. And the chart is completely undue and should be deleted. Much of this is sneaking in a bio where the company not the person is notable - just as Nikki says. One clue - the unnecessary repetitive use of the founder’s name in the lede. And a heading with his name. And insinuations as to his father (blp violation) and unnecessary similar aspersions as to his brother (no wrongdoing there related to focus of article). And almost zero about the rise of this $8billion company - surely the editor who wrote this was skilled enough to find balancing info. And the creator of all this created a redirect for the founder’s name to this page. This really looks suspicious. This needs cleanup and trimming and balance and blp issues to be addressed to tone down the blp hit piece flavor. 2604:2000:E010:1100:A876:B5AC:AA3C:3FE8 (talk) 11:55, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I just edited the article in accordance with the above, from a week ago. And added relevant information from a dozen RS articles. And reduced the BLP violations that MJL had introduced. He just now summarily deleted all of my changes. Can other editors take a look please? Especially User:Nikkimaria. I agree with him that this article is being used by MJL to try to shoehorn in negative BLP material re individuals, which is not appropriate. He also left out all sorts of relevant material about the company itself. This is looking quite fishy.2604:2000:E010:1100:4555:796D:6420:2EB (talk) 05:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * 2604:2000, please see my user page. I prefer they/them pronouns to be used when in reference to me. Please correct. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 05:13, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * (1) The DYK already ran, so that's a moot point. (2) If this reads like a hit piece, then that is just a reflection its sources. (3) This section is mainly not in Wikipedia's voice and is all cited to this reference which investigated the allegations in detail. (4) I also did make note of that they were an 8 billion dollar company, but most reliable sources have solely focused on the scandals that brought it down. (5) If you would like to re-write the lead to not mention Gottlieb's name as much, that's fine by me. I'm fully aware that I tend to overuse a subject's name because I worry too much people will be confused as to whom I am talking about. (6) The table provides interesting information, and you are the first person to contest its relevance and WEIGHT. (7) Of course Jacob Gottlieb redirects here, people looking for information on him should find the article that covers him rather than being given a redlink. (8) I reverted your recent edits to the article. Would one (or both) of you two please review this matter? (9) I added the header for the record.  &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 05:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I've already made my opinion on the inclusion of the biographical material clear? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:28, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm asking about the removal of the funds and additional content as well. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 15:43, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Nikki - Thanks. I agree with you. MJL - as to the chart, I do think it is WP:UNDUE, highly and unnecessarily repetitive and focused on trivia, and obviously inconsistent with the not-undue presentation of information we have in the other articles in the category of "Category:Defunct hedge funds". 2604:2000:E010:1100:6A:E73C:4B60:4989 (talk) 01:12, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * More than most, there was specific attention paid to the firm's different funds. I can't see how a list of its different investment products could be WP:UNDUE. Just look, this kind of information can be found within several Wikipedia articles about hedge funds. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 23:24, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw the edit on my watchlist and it appeared at least at first glance as a significant rewrite of the article. Unfortunately I’m traveling and on mobile until next week, and this is too much content for me to analyze on a cell phone. So for now I have no opinion on, eg, the table, but I’ll say I kind of ignored the IP’s post above because of the aspersions cast (for example, there is nothing fishy about creating a redirect from the maybe-notable founders name to the definitely-notable company they founded. That’s pretty standard procedure.) As this was a bold rewrite, I don’t think the new changes should be included unless there’s consensus here, and most likely we’ll need to break down the rewrite into its separate parts to discuss them to see if there is consensus. (For example, it seems like the copy edits to the lead to reduce the number of times the name is used might have consensus; not sure about removing the table and other changes.) I’ll keep tabs on the discussion here but unfortunately I won’t be able to participate fully until next week. (There is no need to wait for me of course!) Cheers, Levivich (lulz) 16:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The lead improvement is fine (though, I added back the link per my own personal tastes). The chart removal is probably the number one concern of mine as well as other historical info. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 23:24, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Request edit
We’re asking for changes to our client’s page, Visium Asset Management, in order to include more complete/accurate history and provide substantial updates about the firm and its affiliates. 1) In the Business section, at the beginning of the third paragraph add: Gottlieb invested in Intercept Pharmaceuticals pre-IPO and before Visium’s formation and launch. 2) a. At the end of the second paragraph in Investigation of rogue employees for fraud, add this sentence: Later, Steven Ku, Visium's former Chief Financial Officer, agreed to be barred from the securities industry for one year and pay $100,000 to settle the agency's allegations that he failed to supervise portfolio managers Christopher Plaford and Stefan Lumiere. 3) a. At the end of the first paragraph in the section United States v. Lumiere add: Lumiere was sentenced to 18 months in prison followed by three years’ supervised release and a $1 million fine. b. Beneath United States v. Lumiere, add another sub-section, United States v. Plaford. Include this paragraph: The Securities and Exchange Commission barred former portfolio manager, Christopher Plaford, from the securities industry after charges that he inflated asset prices under a fraudulent scheme at Visium Asset Management. In 2016, Plaford pleaded guilty to securities fraud and was permanently banned from the securities industry. In 2019, Plaford was sentenced to time served, three years of supervised release, a $7,311 fine, and a criminal forfeiture of $6,611 that represented his proceeds from insider trading, according to an SEC statement. C. Beneath United States v. Plaford, add another sub-section, United States v. Blaszczak. Include this paragraph: Separately, Plaford’s cooperation with the government led to a jury conviction of a research consultant, David Blaszczak, the founder of Precipio Health Strategies, for violating insider-trading rules by obtaining and relaying nonpublic information from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services about coming changes in health-care policy to Deerfield Management. The jury also convicted the government employee who leaked the tips as well as a pair of Deerfield employees who made trades based on the information. 4) a. Add a new section called Post Visium. Beneath that, create a sub-section called AllianceBernstein. This sentence is in the current Liquidation section but we’d like it moved under the AllianceBernstein sub-section: In 2016, AllianceBernstein signed a letter of intent to take over management of the Visium Global Fund, its investment professionals, and certain support staff. Robert Kim, Visium’s former Director of Research, joined AB in 2016 as a founding member and Chief Investment Officer of the AB Arya Partners Group. Add this paragraph: At the time, former Chairman and CEO of AllianceBernstein, Peter Kraus, said, “The Visium Global Fund is a unique opportunity to further strengthen AB's alternatives platform. The fund has produced strong risk-adjusted performance since its inception in 2007 and enhances our ability to meet our clients' need for idiosyncratic alpha across market cycles.” Shortly after, Kraus and a majority of AllianceBernstein’s Board of Directors were let go from the firm. The New York Times reported that the dismissals took place because of Kraus’s desire to focus on high-cost active-management products during a time when investor preference was shifting to cheaper exchange-traded funds that track a wide variety of stock and bond indexes. b. Add a new section under AllianceBernstein called Citadel LLC. Add this paragraph: Citadel LLC hired about 17 former Visium portfolio managers that ultimately formed the bulk of investment staff at Aptigon Capital (one of Citadel’s hedge fund arms, then led by S.A.C. Capital and Diamondback Capital alum and co-founder, Richard Schimel, later co-founder and co-CIO of Cinctive Capital). Schimel and a number of investment professionals were let go from Aptigon shortly after due to poor performance. Following uncertainty after Citadel cut one-third of Aptigon’s investment staff, a number of employees who survived the layoffs (including a trader and portfolio manager) moved to other hedge funds. Schimel was replaced by Eric Felder, who led the fund for just one year before Citadel management shut down Aptigon because of performance. c. Add a new sub-section under Citadel LLC called Stormborn Capital Management. Add this paragraph: Former Visium Portfolio Manager, Elise Di Vincenzo Crumbine, started Stormborn Capital Management in 2016. Stormborn Capital Management is a long/short equity hedge fund with a concentration in the consumer sector headquartered in Greenwich, Connecticut. Stormborn manages nearly $400 million in assets under management exclusively for Lighthouse Partners and is one of the largest women-led launches of the past few years. d. Add a new sub-section under Stormborn Capital Management called Madryn Asset Management. Add this paragraph: Madryn Asset Management, a spinout of Visium’s private equity fund (Visium Healthcare Partners), is an investment platform that provides capital to healthcare companies. As per a regulatory filing in June 2022, Madryn currently manages over $1 billion in regulatory assets under management (RAUM). e. Add a new sub-section under Madryn Asset Management called Altium Capital. Add this paragraph: In 2018, Jacob Gottlieb formed a new healthcare focused fund, Altium Capital. According to a 13F filed June 30, 2022, Altium manages $249,908,000 in long positions. Wikieditor19534 (talk) 16:38, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't intend to review this properly, but a quick comment: ... agreed to be barred from the securities industry for one year ... is not going to fly. It should be ... was barred from the securities industry for one year ... This might be an edit request that waits a while, because the subject matter is dry, technical and involves many sources, and the edit request is made with the POV of making VAM look as good as possible (or as minimally bad as possible given the fraud context). — Bilorv ( talk ) 21:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Bilorv Since this was a settlement, I think "agreed to" is quite accurate. It's the usual language for expressing the terms of a settlement like this. Actualcpscm (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Suggestions 1, 2, 3 look good to me. The relevance of your proposed substantial addition (suggestion 4) is not clear to me; none of this information is strictly relevant to the article at hand. Actualcpscm (talk) 18:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wikieditor19534 You can go ahead and implement suggestions 1, 2, and 3, as long as you do so exactly as you wrote them here. Actualcpscm (talk) 18:02, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Actualcpscm Thank you for reviewing/approving. How do I actually implement these changes now? Wikieditor19534 (talk) 15:08, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikieditor19534 I'm not sure what you mean; what aspect of implementation are you having trouble with? Actualcpscm (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't think we should really be including most of these changes. It's mostly based on primary sources. I also don't think we should really be including the stuff about Citadel in this article either; it's more appropriate for the article about Citadel LLC. We could maybe add the stuff about AllianceBernstein, but we really would need to trim the details to just focus on the stuff relevant to Visium Asset Management.
 * @Wikieditor19534: How about you make a new request with this feedback in mind? I'll take a look at it then. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 16:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Understood, will do. Thank you. Wikieditor19534 (talk) 21:35, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Just published the new edit request. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks again. Wikieditor19534 (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request
We’re asking for changes to our client’s page, Visium Asset Management.

1) In the Business section, at the beginning of the third paragraph add: Gottlieb invested in Intercept Pharmaceuticals pre-IPO and before Visium’s formation and launch. 2) a. At the end of the second paragraph in Investigation of rogue employees for fraud, add this sentence: Later, Steven Ku, Visium's former Chief Financial Officer, agreed to be barred from the securities industry for one year and pay $100,000 to settle the agency's allegations that he failed to supervise portfolio managers Christopher Plaford and Stefan Lumiere. 3) a. At the end of the first paragraph in the section United States v. Lumiere add: Lumiere was sentenced to 18 months in prison followed by three years’ supervised release and a $1 million fine. b. Beneath United States v. Lumiere, add another sub-section, United States v. Plaford. Include this paragraph: The Securities and Exchange Commission barred former portfolio manager, Christopher Plaford, from the securities industry after charges that he inflated asset prices under a fraudulent scheme at Visium Asset Management. In 2016, Plaford pleaded guilty to securities fraud and was permanently banned from the securities industry. In 2019, Plaford was sentenced to time served, three years of supervised release, a $7,311 fine, and a criminal forfeiture of $6,611 that represented his proceeds from insider trading, according to an SEC statement. C. Beneath United States v. Plaford, add another sub-section, United States v. Blaszczak. Include this paragraph: Separately, Plaford’s cooperation with the government led to a jury conviction of a research consultant, David Blaszczak, the founder of Precipio Health Strategies, for violating insider-trading rules by obtaining and relaying nonpublic information from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services about coming changes in health-care policy to Deerfield Management. The jury also convicted the government employee who leaked the tips as well as a pair of Deerfield employees who made trades based on the information. 4) a. Add a new section called Post Visium. Beneath that, create a sub-section called AllianceBernstein. This sentence is in the current Liquidation section but we’d like it moved under the AllianceBernstein sub-section: In 2016, AllianceBernstein signed a letter of intent to take over management of the Visium Global Fund, its investment professionals, and certain support staff. Robert Kim, Visium’s former Director of Research, joined AB in 2016 as a founding member and Chief Investment Officer of the AB Arya Partners Group. Add this paragraph: At the time, former Chairman and CEO of AllianceBernstein, Peter Kraus, said, “The Visium Global Fund is a unique opportunity to further strengthen AB's alternatives platform. The fund has produced strong risk-adjusted performance since its inception in 2007 and enhances our ability to meet our clients' need for idiosyncratic alpha across market cycles.”. b. Add a new section under AllianceBernstein called Citadel LLC. Add this paragraph: Citadel LLC hired about 17 former Visium portfolio managers that ultimately formed the bulk of investment staff at Aptigon Capital (one of Citadel’s hedge fund arms, then led by S.A.C. Capital and Diamondback Capital alum and co-founder, Richard Schimel, later co-founder and co-CIO of Cinctive Capital).

Wikieditor19534 (talk) 21:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Reply 2-JUL-2023
Regards, Spintendo  21:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Please indicate the reasons for making these changes.
 * 2) When ready to proceed with the requested information, kindly change the  template's answer parameter to read from yes to no.


 * Hi @Spintendo the clarification you requested has been provided, and I have changed the template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no . Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thank you Wikieditor19534 (talk) 19:11, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Stating "in order to include more complete/accurate history and provide substantial updates about the firm and its affiliates" does not clarify the reasons for each individual change. Please provide reasons for each individual change requested in the article. Regards, Spintendo  01:13, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm prepared to implement (without reasons being needed) the requests concerning the various lawsuits, since they are integral to the company's collapse. Any information concerning successor and/or newly formed companies (by former employees) needs to have WikiLinks for all the companies mentioned. This includes Altium Capital, Madryn Asset Management, Stormborn Capital Management, Cinctive Capital, etc. The remains of the Visium article ought not to be used to promote any newer ventures. Seeing if these companies have WikiLinks will help to ensure that. Regards, Spintendo  05:32, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Spintendo I removed any additional mention of successor and/or newly formed companies that didn't have wikilinks available. Please let me know if we can proceed with the newly requested changes. Thank you Wikieditor19534 (talk) 16:37, 24 August 2023 (UTC)