User talk:Kudpung/Archive 15-30 Oct 2011

Thank you...
...for my shiny thing and your kind words. I decided to do a bit of NPP last weekend which I had never done before. I normally just watch these. What an eye-opener! A daily flood of illiterate dross, hoaxes, copyvio, advertising etc. etc.. The IEP "contributions" are just the icing on the daily cake. Did you participate in that IEP conference? I wonder how it went. I honestly can't believe the degree to which the WMF have their collective heads in the sand. How on earth could they positively encourage a program that would release literally hundreds of articles virtually simultaneously (created by students contributing under duress and without a clue of what's required) without thinking this through or even warning the projects that would have to clean up the inevitable mess. I didn't add this to the IEP talk page, but I'm pretty disappointed by the Foundation's utter disregard for the foot soldiers of Wikipedia and the degree to which they are out of touch with what it's really like to edit here, day in and day out. OK, rant over, feel better now. ;-) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 20:25, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you confirm  that  an awful lot  of the new pages are rubbish.  People who  have not  done NPP  are just  not  convinced and prefer to  rely  on stats  for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a 'representative' sample. Our resources are now stretched to  the limit, especially  now that  CorenBot  is down.  We have too many  children on  patrol, and too  few truly  active admins.  Following  the WMF rejection of WP:ACTRIAL in  spite of its reaching  a very  clear consensus on  a heavily  subscribed RfC, I've been working  very  closely with  the  WMF  these last  couple of weeks to  find alternative solutions to  page creation and patrolling. Ironically  the IEP  issue was a blessing  in  disguise - it  came to  a head at  the right  moment and brought  the message squarely  home. I  was involved in  several talks with  the WMF and the IEP  organisers and it was left  up  to  me whether I  should unblock  the university  IP. The situation is resolved (for now) but  we need to  be extra vigilant. The people who  run the WMF  are young, keen, qualified, and highly  motivated, but  they  do  admit  to  some extent that  they lack the hands-on, day-to-day experience of being  a regular New Page patroller or admin.  I'm constantly  in  touch with  them now and I'm  sure we are on the right  road to  improve the way  new pages get  created, and how they  are policed. Whenever I  get  exasperated, I  always think  of calm reserve of  this editor,  and think, 'That's how I  should be handling  this'. Thanks again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Please review these blocks
There was a bug in MediaWiki 1.18 that caused blocks made via the API to have talk page access disabled when it should have been enabled. This also affected scripts such as User:Animum/easyblock.js. Please review the following blocks to make sure that you really intended talk page access to be disabled, and reblock if necessary. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to post at User talk:Anomie. Thanks! Anomie⚔ 02:07, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  by Kudpung at 2011-10-11T12:58:21Z, expires 2012-04-11T12:58:21Z: Spamming links to external sites
 * 2)  by Kudpung at 2011-10-11T12:27:27Z, expires infinity:
 * Thanks. Blocks reset. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:59, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:SundCollLogo.jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:SundCollLogo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk ) 05:14, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The infobox on the target  article has been update buy  another usuer who  has uploaded a new logo. This  File:SundCollLogo.jpg file can be deleted. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Boing! said Zebedee
In case you didn't spot it, BsZ is away at the moment. He told me that he may be back at the end of October. In the interval, he has not even got regular access to email due to location. HTH. - Sitush (talk) 09:40, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. I was getting  concerned. He has family  here near me in  Thailand. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:42, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You may want to call on him personally ;) - Sitush (talk) 09:49, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's apparently only 30 minutes from  here but  I  don't have the address ;) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto, when BsZ is in the UK. It's a strange old world! FWIW, I was the one who stuck the wikibreak up on his page, having eventually got a response to an email querying his well-being etc. That notice was done with his agreement - he thought that if he so much as looked at the page then he'd inevitably get drawn into things that could not be completed. I'll be glad when he's back as he's one of those admins who is really prepared to get the mop dirty in the India caste article sphere. Keep well. - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Query: Artificial Intelligence in Data Mining
HI, OH you deleted the article "Artificial Intelligence" due to some mistakes done by me.I want your suggestion what should i do now from where should i must start the article "ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN DATA MINING" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netra Nahar (talk • contribs) 12:51, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Netra. Yes, I'm sorry  but  that's what  we have to  do  with  articles that  are made up  by  copying  content  from  other sources. You  actually  caused us all  quite a headache here in  the USA, England, and Thailand ;) Even one of your campus Ambassadors went to  you college looking  for you  to  warn  what  is going  to  happen. The problem  is that  what  you  are writing  duplicates the information  that  is already  in another Wikipedia article. I  suggest  you  find a new topic to  write about, and if you  do,  you  must  remember not  to  copy  anything  from  anywhere else. Please read the messages that  we have left on  your talk page very  carefully . Please also  read how to  use talk  pages and sign  your messages. Thank  you, and good luck. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:04, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Help Please
Hello Kudpung,

I recently created a new page, Medway High School Theatre, that was removed because it was said to contain copyrighted wob content material. The website shown in reference to that copyrighted material, (Copy of web content at http://www.science24.org/show/Medway_High_School_%28Massachusetts%29) was actually taken directly from a wikipedia page that has since been edited, Medway High School. Since the web content was actually pulled directly from a wikipedia page, therefore the wikipedia page was the original source of this information, can this new page be allowed? It will not be a duplicate of the Medway High School page, because that page has since been edited and will continue to be edited to more closely reflect major facts about the school. Please advise. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12musical34 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * HI. Please sign your posts. We are very  strict  about  copying  even one sentence from  another source. Please feel  free to  recreate the article, bearing  in  mind that  it  will  one again come under very  close scrutiny. Be absolutely  sure to  read WP:NOTABILITY, WP:ORG, and WP:COI before you start, because not  only  was the article copied from  another source,   it  also  was unable to  assert notabilty for the the theatre. Unless it  has made national  headlines several times in  the established press, it  is most  unlikely  that  this theatre will  be proven to  be important  enough for  inclusion  in  the encylopedia. Good luck! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:40, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI
See User talk:Netra Nahar. This is going to need rev-del too. I let Ruud Koot who did the rev-dels in Artificial Intelligence in Data Mining know. Triple sigh... Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:29, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I spent  five hours checking  IEP  articles for copyvios again esterday, and of course not  all  of them  proved positive, but  it  has to  be done. However, my  patience is now wearing  thin, and I  want  to  get  back  to  my  usual  tasks. There was a dialogue with  Netra above but s/he does not  seem to  have understood. I  have lived and worked in  India a few times and I'm  very  familiar how communication works:  You  and I  are both  have a background in  linguistics  -  we know what  the problems are.  I  appear to  be the only  non-Indian fluent  speaker of Indian English around here and I've done my best even on  a long  calls  with  the WM and the Indian programme consultant a week  ago. A major problem is that their  40 campus ambassadors don't  know the rules  either, and don't  appear to  watch  their talk pages. I'm  only  a volunteer -  there's nothing  more I  can do  by  remote control to  help  these people understand not  only  the very  basics of editing  the encyclopedia, but  also  policies that  are not considered important  in  Asian culture. All I've got  now are are buttons for  deleting and blocking.... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:31, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


 * BTW: My most  humble apologies for the gender error. No, it  wasn't  obvious, but  in  hindsight...  --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:46, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No need for an apology. ;-) The name came from a book by Rodolfo Celletti but I think in the back of my mind was the idea that not making my gender obvious might be a good idea. Interestingly, this guy, who was mightily peeved that both his autobiography and an article about his ground-breaking self-published book got deleted at AfD, accused me of being a "feminized man" and a traitor to my alleged sex. Yikes! Voceditenore (talk) 14:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

RE: Page protection
The simple answer, I don't like twinkle. It is extremely overused for every action that people can do with their own hands. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  04:51, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant  that  this would be an additional  automated operation when we admins effect  a page protection. It  would relieve you  of the work... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:58, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It is actually a part of the twinkle kit. But it has a bug, when someone adds a pp-semi tag, twinkle removes the tag, so it is not really helpful.  Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  05:04, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Administrator?
Hi Kudpung! I was recently doing some WP:NACs on AfD and thought that I might be ready to go for a RfA, with conquerable experience globally, however I might need some more experience locally, I have been quite active on many projects and areas, varying from vandal fighting to article improvements. I wanted to get your recommendations that how can I be ready for the mop. Thanks or your consideration. :) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛  Talk Email 06:24, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll look into  it. May  take me an hour or two though.  In  the meantime, you  may  wish  to  read my  page at  WP:Advice for RfA candidates if you  have not  already  done so. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:29, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I stumbled upon this request while looking at another post. I have run across some of Vibhijain's AfD's and don't think he's ready for adminship.  Every AfD Vib has initiated that I have seen fails to cite a single WP policy or guideline.  Vib, why are you in such a rush for adminship?  You've only been on WP for 6 months from what I've seen.  Being an administrator means gaining significant trust from the Wikipedia community and not performing near-admin duties over a relatively short period of time.  Ol Yeller  Talktome 02:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I've dealt with this already. Vibhijain is quite responsible for his age, and by  patrolling  new pages he will  learn more about  Wikipedia policy. He needs to  get  it right  of course, but  he's not  the worst  of our NPPers, and I'm  watching  what  he's doing - you  can help  too  by  putting  him  right  when he gets it  wrong.  At the moment, his age is very  much  against  any  real  chance of becoming  an admin, but  I'm  sure he will  be one someday :) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. I looked through several of his edits and keep wondering if the picture on the his userpage is old or not indicative of his age.  He's certainly picking things up very quickly.  I can definitely see him becoming an admin some day.  Ol Yeller  Talktome 17:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Page deleted
Please see that the page Rock on Radio has been deleted.I didn't delete it.It was deleted by another user.Dipankan001 (talk) 14:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's now been deleted. I know you  didn't  delete it, because you're not  an admin. I  think  oi  would be a good idea if you  check out  WP:NPP and WP:CSD before you  tag  any  more pages. If you  need any  help  don't  hesitate to  let  me know :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Request
Hello Sir, I am extremely sorry for the copvios in my edits,now i restarted the work and I want you to go through it if you have time.I wrote the stuff on "Gray Box Testing" in my sandbox. Netra Nahar 16:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

CopyVio and other
Hello sir, There have been no Copyright Violations done by my class(ie the students I am responsible for). I have given them a law suit scare and that seemed to do the trick. The other CAs do not agree with my methods of scaring instead of teaching. I check their articles regularly and look out for any copyvios, and other CAs are doing the same, but since there are more than a 100 articles which every CA has to go through he might miss some of them which have been picked up by the western editors. We have received no help from the online ambassadors. I have put up the template you designed for the IEP on the article's atalk pages. The reason that you are noticing copy vios on tens of articles instead of all the 1000 of them is because CAs have been doing their job. But the sheer number of the articles prevent us from 100% accuracy of detecting copy vios. We all are working on wikipedia improvement. And the western editors seem to have a completely different level/standard on the quality of articles.I would say an article a bit lower in quality would be better than a stub level article since it provides information even though not in perfect grammar and english but atleast in a language which can be understood by the people using the free encyclopedia. Remember WMF wanted this to happen in India, so they must have or should have expected a difference in the english quality since it is not the first language of people here in India compared to the Education program in US. I hope you understand this. We all are working for a common goal ie free knowledge, so can you please be a bit more lenient and patient and all issues will be resolved. I recognize you contribution to the IEP and all the help you have provided us, I just ask you to be a bit more lenient and understand the complication we are going through. Thank you. Feel Free to leave me a message. Mihir.khatwani (talk) 19:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Mihir. You do  not  need to  call  me 'Sir', here on  Wikipedia we are all  equal, 'Kudpung' will  do  just  fine :)  I  know that  we are all  working  towards a common  goal, and we all  want  to  contribute to  the Wikipedia to  make it  a wonderful knowledge base, however, there are some things we must always bear in  mind. Wikipedia is probably  the biggest repository  of knowledge online, and it  is the fifth  biggest  web site in  the world, and it  is free for every one to use. Apart  from  just  a few people in  the office in  the USA, everyone  here is a volunteer just  like you, and we work  on  Wikipedia in  our spare time. It  cots a lot of money  to  maintain the servers and systems that  keep  the encyclopedia up  and running, in  fact  millions of dollars every  year, and that  money  comes from  donations  from  all  kinds of people, sometimes just a couple of dollars from  people like you  and me, sometimes millions of dollars from  some very  big organisations. They  give this money  because they believe in  what  we are doing, and they  want  to  see a quality  product. Most  of that  money  is given by   the people who  read the encyclopedia. Now imagine what  would happen if the the level  of quality  goes down: people who  read it might  stop  trusting  the information  the encyclopedia contains, and they  would stop  reading  it, and they  would stop  donating  money  to  it. Then the other problem: articles are written  and edited by  the volunteers who  also  strive for quality to  protect  the good name of the Wikipedia, and if they think  we are going  to  allow a drop  in  quality or be lenient  to  copyright  violations, they  will  stop  contributing  their efforts. In  the end it  would all lead to  a collapse of this project  that  has been going  on  now for ten years.


 * The biggest problem  right  now is that  the  western editors just  do  not  have the capacity to  spend time checking  and cleaning  up  the the sheer number of the articles articles that  come from  the IEP. That  has to  be the job  of those who  are in  charge of the IEP, and already  dedicating  much  of their time to check  the articles. The WMF wanted this project to happen in India, but  I  think  they  forgot  to  realise that  it would possibly cause a big drop in the  quality of the articles. The Indian  ambassadors and mentors must   organise their workflow  without  being  under pressure of deadlines (there  are no deadlines on  Wikipedia) and use some of the tools we use for checking  articles, and most  importantly,  they  must  make a huge effort to  ensure that  all  the Indian  editors understand the rules and policies that  protect  the Wikipedia from  copyright  violations and unwanted articles.


 * At the moment, the problem  is concentrated only  in  Pune, but  India is the second most  populous  country  in  the world, and when the programme extends to  other big  cities such  as Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, and Kolkata, you  can imaging  what  might  happen. I  have worked hard in  my  free time these last  two  weeks to  help  the IEP along, and negociate with  the WMF and the ambassadors to  help  the organisers understand the extent  of the problems, but  at  the end of the day, everyone, wherever they  come from, must  maintain  the high standards that  are essential  for Wikipedia, and the organisers, ambassadors and editors in  India must  accept the responsibility  for the articles they  are producing. Best  regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Mihir, it is not true that there have been no copyvios by students you are responsible for. It took only five minutes for me to find a copyright violation by Sachinsuroshe, who is in Computer Organization and Advanced Microprocessing. (Pasting material into a sandbox is still a violation.) I do not have the time right now to look through the rest of the contributions of that class, but I am confident that this is not the only one. Danger (talk) 01:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth Mihir, this is far from an isolated incident. In the first course I checked, I've nominated the first two articles for copyright violations.  Ol Yeller  Talktome 02:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Talk:Financial inclusion for what I ran across; this is in no way a personal thing. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 06:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * A chunk of text like that in  near perfect  English smacks of blatant copyvio -  beware however of sites that  mirror WP  content. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Mihir. We all understand the complications you're going through. As I said here, an unacceptable burden has been placed on the CAs to make this poorly designed program work. We can be lenient when it comes to writing style, poor English, etc. These issues can be fixed gradually through copyediting, although I have to say that in some cases the English so poor (often resulting from copying text verbatim and then attempting to change individual words or verb tenses, or removing one or two phrases from the sequence) that the text is incomprehensible. Only editors who are subject specialists can copyedit such articles, thus greatly reducing the pool of editors who can make the repairs. Here's an example. The student had had multiple copyvio problems before and asked me to look at the new draft. I could confirm that blatant copyvio doesn't seem to be there anymore, but I simply cannot understand the content enough to fix the English or even comment on its accuracy because the subject is completely out of my area. However we cannot be lenient on copyright violation, ever. The scale of the problem is now so large that it's now going to take literally months (and many editors) to find and remove it from articles edited by IEP students. The silver lining to this cloud is that we'll probably find and get rid of a lot of other copy vio that didn't come from IEP students. Hardwired control is one example I found today. The whole article is basically copied from Computer architecture and organization by John Patrick Hayes, and has been like this since at least 2008. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * It does not  seem  to  stop. I  take a break  from  what  I'm  doing  to  have a few minutes stab at  NPP and the very  first  page on  this list  is Advanced jigs and fixtures by User:Swapnil.dahake, a copyvio of the book  Audel Automated Machines and Toolmaking. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Look on the bright side. At least the students have made it easy for us, since we can basically assume that any coherent text is a copyvio waiting to be found. (Although I've found ones that were "translated" into poor English as well.) Danger (talk) 10:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That's very true of course. I  know I'm  not  indispensable on  Wikipedia, but  I'm  might  be among  the most  experienced page patrollers we've got, and what  worries me is are the the ones that  aren't  being  caught  when I'm doing  something  else. There are a few old hands  helping  out  on  NPP these last  few days, but they  won't  stick  at  it  forever. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I've just tagged Heat treatment processes in manufacturing by User:Mahale deepak, a recreation  of his article deleted on  3 October. as a duplicating  an existing  topic. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey guys, firstly let me just state that all of you are just too awesome. I love the passion you have for protecting Wikipedia. I really would love to meet such passionate people in my life who spend their time toiling away just protecting what they believe in to this great extent. Understand however, that none of the Campus Ambassadors as asking you to be lenient when it comes to article quality. As for Kudpung กุดผึ้ง, I am glad you understand the burden we are facing. When we ask for leniency, it is in the context of say if you find that an article is of bad quality, instead of marking it up for speedy deletion right away, why not move it into the sandbox of that user and asking him to edit it there. In relation to copyright violations, I am not asking for any leniency whatsoever. Just that the message conveyed to the students can be of constructive criticism instead of just posting that you have been blocked for copyvios. See the whole point is none of these students are not involved in Vandalism. This program though might look like a failure has the potential to do great. I respect that you do not agree with the deadlines, but certain things must be incorporated to make this program work in these schools and colleges. AS of now, this deadline system is the best method we can think of. We are open to suggestions rather than just criticisms. If you would like to pitch in you ideas, do help us and do so. It would go a long way. All we are stating, is let the deadlines now pass, let the dust settle after the storm and understand the mistakes that occurred from the first phase of this program and correct them. That is the whole concept of the pilot project. If this program had no problems whatsoever, we would roll it out directly to all major cities, and not just be restricted to Pune. The burden of the CA's are immense. We are volunteers, most of us either undergrads or postgrads. Most of them now have their exams going on, hence you might see a lot of them being non-active. I myself shall become non-active for a few weeks for my exams. But understand we are doing our best to handle this problem, unfortunately it is taking us some time. That is where we ask for leniency that we let us tackle the problem by helping us and ironing out the kinks of the program instead of just losing hope in the program. It would be lovely if you could give us a few tools or maybe bots or in general teach us how you find copyvios so that our manual workload is lessened.


 * And I disagree with you when it comes to the context as to degradation of quality in the Indian context. If WMF rolled out this program in India, I'm pretty sure they had confidence on the Indian editorial ship. Please assume good faith when I tell you this but certain jives and digs at the Indian education system and our level of competence seems very much out of place and in certain cases, your just being a Bully. I am not going to go into the context of whether Indian students can contribute quality articles to Wikipedia or not, as there are already a lot of at least decent articles from this program. I believe you are focusing too much on the negatives and not enough on the positives. WMF has faith on the program so all we are asking you is to keep that faith. Why focus only on the negatives, why not come together in collaboration and help this program evolve. I'm sorry to say, I've not seen comment from most of the Western editors which say, instead of, "Look, another copyvio", say "Hey, look how great the article of this student is." A nice positive lookout is necessary in these dark times.


 * Again I really appreciate the love you have for Wikipedia and the invaluable time and effort you are putting to iron out the problems from this program. But please don't just think in one direction, take the positives also. It feels nice when we the CA's get a positive message from any editor, for example look at this user's talk page. This sort of positive re-encouragement not only inspires the user to do better work, but it inspires others to work harder and do much better. However, if you only focus on the negatives, you shall miss out on such heart-warming positives.
 * Regards,


 * Your friendly neighbourhood Campus Ambassador


 * --Debastein1 (talk) 12:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * "Lets make this world a better and more informative place""

I don't  think  it  is quite fair to  accuse us of bullying and jiving. The en.Wiki may have millions of 'editors', but  the  number of volunteers who  are truly  dedicated to  Wikipedia is actually  quite small, especially when it  comes to  those who not  only  contribute their own articles, but  who  also spend huge amounts of time on  maintenance tasks. The problem is that  we are already  overstretched with  these tasks, and at  the best  of times we have around 7 to  10 people to  check  over 1,000   new pages that  arrive here every  day of the week. As you probably  know, some of us are collaborating  closely  with  the WMF to  develop  a new user interface for new users to  make it  easier for them  to  edit  and get  it  right. At the same time, we are also  working hard on  new systems to  improve our handling  of those new pages. However, these developments do not  happen  overnight and many  members of the community  feel  that  the IEP  is either ill timed, or ill prepared,  and this means that  we simply do  not  have the resources to  be as helpful  as you  would like us to  be. Nevertheless, we are doing our best, and some of that  'best'  is not  only  locating  the IEP pages that  need attention, but  also  to  help  the WMF understand that  this is a real  problem.

If you  take a close look  at  the comments  above in  this thread (and the many  discussions that  I  have already  archived), you  will  see that  rather than criticising  the individual  students or poor quality,  we are having  to  provide some evidence that  the project  needs more understanding of the isues associated with  it. The problem is not  one of quality, it  is one of insufficient  understanding  of the core policy  of copyvio, and  seeing  students simply  recreating  the same articles that  have already  been deleted, or not  looking  to  see if an article on  that  topic already  exists. We are according  the same degree of control over the IEP  articles as we do  to  any  other, and  certainly  without  any   bad faith. However, we have had the rules and policies of Wikipedia drummed into us -  especially  those of us who have gone through the very  difficult and sometimes unpleasant  process to  become administrators.

Without the volunteers and admins who  control  and process new pages, there would be no  Wikipedia, no  WMF, and no IEP, and it  is fair to  expect  that  when new projects of this magnitude are launched, some plans should have been made for the inevitable   cleaning  up. I believe the WMF is now taking  this very  seriously, and I  have offered any  help  I  can, but  my  personal  help  is not  on  cleaning  up  the individual  IEP  pages - my  main  work  as an volunteer here  is to  contribute my  own  articles, and help  develop  new aids for newcomers and give them  a boost. One tool that  is indispensable for campus ambassadors is the duplication  detector, and there are many  other tricks of the trade for identifying  problem articles, but  we have not  been asked to  train  the CAs, and we believed they  would have already  received adequate instruction  before the project  began. I am open to  any  suggestions as to  how I  can be of personal help  in  this respect and how I can offer  my  own experience of Wikipedia,  and of working  in  education in Asia for  for almost  13 years now. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey Kudpung, I really love the work you are doing,I truly appreciate. I mean we are all volunteers even you but the amount of passion you have is extraordinary. I mentioned bullying because certain users made very simple comments that the problem lies with the educations system and all to which I took offense. It seemed very much like a personal attack. With regard to WMF, I am a very small player in this so I cannot comment on whatever you've told me, its just IEP is a program I truly believe in and I know that in the long term it will help towards a great aspect. As per training of CA's, see we have undergone training. However, we are also Wikipedians. Even my primary concern is to write and edit articles. In all fairness most of us are fairly new to Wikipedia, and even though we know most of the basics, certain tricks of the trade will take us some time to harness such as using different tools. Understand, my background is from Economics, hence am not a technical person that I can design bots and set them to work, I still try to emulate as best as I can. You don't have to give us a training session as such, just teach us a few tricks of the trade. Like you said, there are about 7-8 of you who are checking over 1000 articles. There are about 30 of us, unfortunately, we are not that well versed with all these tools and tricks that admins know, only few of us are. Hence, anything for example you teach me, or provide me a tool as such, I shall relate to all the other CA's so that we can do this more efficiently and do this together. My whole point is let us come together. It should be a learning process. As I mentioned previously also, I am your eyes and ears on the ground level. I can directly reach these students, like all other CA's. So we need you to be our online support. You are an avid Wikipedia for 13 years, I am for about a month or so. No amount of training can give me the level of experience that you have attained. Hence, I asked you to teach me, so that even I may learn something new and teach others and help solve this problem. Is that not what Wikipedia is all about??

P.S. Instead of just telling me the name of tools like the duplication detector, can you not also provide me the link, will make my work easier my loads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Debastein1 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Regards,


 * Your friendly neighbourhood Campus Ambassador


 * --Debastein1 (talk) 14:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * "Lets make this world a better and more informative place"


 * Please read my post  again. I  have not  been a Wikipedian for 13 years. Neither am  I  a technician, in  fact  I  know nothing  about  bots - my  background is in  education and socio-linguistics.  I  don't  think  it  is possible for me (or any  of us here) to  coach  each  one of the CAs individually, and again, as you  say, you  are 30 CAs, and we have only  around 7 page patrollers on  duty  at any  one time to  check  over 1,000 new pages that  arrive day  and night  7/7, and now including  the pages from  the IEP  that  are not  always easy  to  detect -  most  of our patrollers are very  inexperienced. As you  also said, the WMF  rolled this project  out  without  consulting  the  community (at  least  I  was not  aware of it) and warning about  what  to  expect,  and as yet  we don't  even have any  official feedback  from  them that  anything  is being  done. I'm  beginning  to  feel  that  I  am  being  put  under pressure here, which  as a volunteer I'm  not  really  willing  to  accept; I  have made some suggestions to  the WMF as to  what  can be done, but  they have their own way  of doing  things and  the decisions  rest  with  them.  Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll say this, as one of the very few truly experienced patrollers; most patrollers are not particularly good, and copyvios in particular can take considerable skill to pick out. With this group, it's made somewhat easier by the fact that most of them show obvious signs of being second-language speakers, so English that looks a little too good gets my attention, but it's still not easy.  I've been working on another major issue for the last couple of weeks, but I intend to get back into NPP once that's cleared out; I have a list of the students so I know who I'm looking for, but I can tell you most patrollers will not, and with a few exceptions most won't know to carefully check them over.  The Foundation really needs to get themselves together; I'm willing to help out (I'm not involved in the Ambassador program, but I think I can be of some use), but I too am only a volunteer. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 19:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

How to detect copyright problems; a few thoughts on the approach to correcting the issue
Hi. As "Maggie Dennis", I'm a contractor for the Wikimedia Foundation. One of my jobs is to help when issues rise between the WMF and its contractors and volunteers. As a volunteer, I have for several years now put most of my time into cleaning up copyright problems and counseling contributors on how to avoid them. As you can see, this situation kind of bridges my roles. :) I debated which account should speak here, but I decided that this is primarily my perspective as Moonriddengirl. I'm here in that capacity.

In terms of how "regular" volunteers of Wikipedia (by which I mean only those who are not involved in the IEP in one way or another) handle this, I'm afraid we run into practical time concerns. Mentorship is fabulous, but it does require time. The culture on English Wikipedia is that typically new page patrollers will flag problems they find in articles so that these problems can be repaired. The template messages that the community has created over the years are intended to explain to newcomers what the problems mean and how they can be fixed. I believe there is some talk underway about how to make the process less intimidating for newcomers, but it'll probably be a while before anything is implemented there.

However, we're trying! I created and several contributors have refined Template:Uw-copyright-new, which is a brief explanation of copyright policies that can be left for students, whether IEP or otherwise. (Actually, it can be left for anybody, but I created it with students in mind.) Prior to creating the template, I have left similar notes to several students already. I think it's a good idea to use this template with students in the IEP on the first instance of copying.

In terms of bots, unfortunately, we no longer have any copyright bots. WMF is working on this, but until something returns, we are limited to manual checks. Duplication detector is a good tool, but it has limitations. You can find it here. It is only usable when you know the source, to see how extensive copying might be. It will not detect all "close paraphrasing", which requires a manual comparison. It is also a little over sensitive at this point. I usually adjust the "minimum number of words" to 4.

Otherwise, the only thing we can do is look for phrases that seem particularly striking and put them in a search engine like Google and see if we can get any matches. Plagiarism outlines the basic approach. One of the free plagiarism detectors I use is, but it has some challenges for Wikipedia work. First, it trips on footnotes...it doesn't exclude those from its checks. So you have to take them out of the material you paste in the window. Second, it does not exclude Wikipedia mirrors (that may be using older content) or even Wikipedia itself. :) Third, like the duplication detector, it can't find all "close paraphrasing" issues. Fourth, it does not check Google books.

Kudpung, I'm sorry if you're feeling frustrated by all this. Putting on my liaison hat temporarily, I know that the Wikimedia Foundation appreciates all you've done to help highlight the issues, so that they (and we, the community) can work to find solutions. WMF can't work quite as quickly as Wikipedia itself does, but they are pursuing this with all speed. There is, for example, a conference set up for it tomorrow. You can also read some conversation at meta:Talk:Wikimedia Foundation - India Programs/Education Program.

Debastein1, I'm sorry if you've felt attacked by people linking the problem to the education system. :( I don't think this is meant to offend. Copyright problems can and do come from all over the world. We do see higher incidences of them in some areas, though, and I know that in a government study now about 10 years old, public familiarity with copyright laws in India were found to be low. I know that the government has taken great strides to counter that, but it can take considerable time to effect culture-wide change, and college age students from many countries face difficulties. I know that in the United States younger students are usually rewarded for memorizing what their teachers tell them are facts. In a way, they are trained to parrot others. As they get older, they are expected to transition away from this, but they aren't always properly trained to do that. I have had many a frustrating session with college students who seem completely baffled by the whole idea of "paraphrasing". On Wikipedia, this is particularly complicated because contributors are warned that they must also avoid original research. This is a tough combination for some. :) In other words, those who are suggesting that India may be more prone to copyright problems than some other areas are not necessarily wrong, and they are not necessarily intending to attack India. I suspect that they are simply trying to grasp the parameters of the problem so we can work out how to repair it. It may be worth exploring if there is a specific cultural element, as this can help us tailor our approach.

Kupung, I am sorry for occupying so much of your page. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Good call & Protection generally
Good call regarding the Xavier College article. You were unusually prescient when we spoke about that a couple of months ago.

I'm starting to think that it might be worthwhile exploring our options with school articles a little bit more. School articles are frequent targets of vandalism, mainly from idiotic teenagers. It is almost never the case that I look over my watchlist and find that there hasn't been a school article vandalised. Exacerbating the issue is the relative lack of editors active on school articles relative to other vandalism-prone areas of wikipedia (i.e., music, politics or geography).

Where it isn't vandalism, it's an issue of WP:NPOV and particularly WP:COI (e.g., Craigmore Christian School, where there have been a couple of little editing back-and-forths with the principal of the school.

Maybe, then, this is the opportunity to think a little bit more about my stance on protection which is that all school articles should be semi-protected indefinitely. At the very least, I think that there should be looser criteria for protecting school articles against other articles. What are your thoughts before I waste time thinking about it any further? &tilde;danjel [ talk | contribs ] 05:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't  think  we could ever get  a special  protection  policy  for schools enacted. I'm  generally  fairly  quick  to  protect  school  pages as you  know, but  we need more watchers, and perhaps when non-admins find cases of repetitive vandalism they  should report  it  at  WT:WPSCH which  is one of my  priority  watches. CT Cooper watches that  page carefully  too. I  really  should have all  school  pages on my  watchlist  but  I  already  have about  8,000 pages there. However, there is also  a tool at Wikiproject Watchlist - WikiProject Schools but  it  sometimes reports a Python  error (note also  that  the PopUp API  does not  work  on  this). For the duration  of protection, I  usually  take the time period between spates of disruption  into  consideration. If  for example there was nothing  for a couple of months, I  may  only  protect  for a couple of weeks until  the vandals have gone away. if one vandal  makes seriously  bad edits more than three times in  a week (not  in  a day), I  block. Bad cases of vandalism don't  need to  go  through incremental  warnings, and if it's the school  IP  that  gets blocked for a short while, it's a lesson  to  all. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have ~1,000, or thereabouts, Australian schools on my watchlist... But I have a life outside of wikipedia (wife, baby-girl-on-the-way, 27 kids in my class, co-workers, principal, xbox, a half-read library, etc.), and I can't commit to checking it as often as it really needs to be checked. Going so far as the schools in other countries is beyond me at the moment.


 * I've vaguely suggested to schools that they keep an eye on their wikipedia articles, but I'm reluctant to go further (because I know that a lot of schools would probably not have the nous to ignore the temptation to tinker around the POV boundary (I'm not even willing to trust myself, there: I didn't do much more than anti-vandalism edits on the school at which I worked until quite a while had passed after I had left and I still haven't finished work on the articles for the region office where I did most of my work).


 * I think we need to make a more concerted effort to identify and block school IP's when they vandalise. But the discretion that you apply isn't consistent with other admins. I'm wary to go to you for each protection or block request if it means that you'll be acting outside of the bounds of policy.


 * I don't know how to encourage more people to watch school articles. I think that the editors who are likely to be able to help already have their hands full with other articles. I think asking them to pay more attention to school articles won't have much real effect anyway, as it'll be stating what (the able) people are already doing. But, yeah... Any ideas? &tilde;danjel [ talk | contribs ] 09:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you use the tool  I  linked to, it  should only  take a moment  to  scan down the list  to  recognise any  Oz schools. Don't  worry  about  my  level  of discretion - I  actually  hesitate a lot  before blocking. In  fact  I've never yet  exercised one single school  block. I'm  very  gentle too  with  kids who  have just  not  understood that  Wikipedia is not  FaceBook. When I  mean bad cases, I  man really  bad cases, such  as obscene personal  attacks against  teachers and other students,and socking  to  do  it  again, etc. Like you, I'm  a teacher, and very  sensitive to  these issues. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Disruption
Hello,

There's a rather petulant dynamic IP spamming the living daylights out of my talkpage. If you are currently online, some administrative intervention would be appreciated; it is very late (early?) where I am, and I'd like to get some sleep without having my talk torn to shreds whilst I slumber. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think  they  are doing  it  in  misguided good faith. I've left  a message on  their tp. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:48, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No no no. I'm not talking about the Holodomor mediation at all. See here. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh sugar! Using  a different  IP each  time. I'll  get  on to  it  and block  them  but  it  will take a long  time. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Much appreciated. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also semi-protected your tp for 12 hours.
 * 12 looong hours ;) Favonian (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Thanks. I thought  I  had proteced it  for  12 hours, but  apparently  only  the presets in  the dropdown work -  or is there something  I'm  not  sure about? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm always tempted to blame the new version of the software, but I'm afraid this was just a slip of the mouse/track point/touch pad. Favonian (talk) 08:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I entered a free value that  is not  on  the dropdown. I  think  this is the first  time I have done that, and apparently  it  didn't  work. I  had entered : 12 hours, my  fault I  guess, I should have checked the  protect  log  afterwards. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi, thank you for your suggestion regarding The_Origins_of_Political_Order. I did not think anyone would read it for quite some time. Could you please suggest how to meet appropriate standards? It was only meant as a stub with just the reference to the book itself. I added ISBN and then saw that you kindly read and suggested that it be improved somehow. I just do not know how, and was hoping someone else would. The book merits the attention. DanielDemaret (talk) 11:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the book qualifies to be included judging numbers sold. This week it ranks 4,956 on Amazon, which should mean it sells a minimum of 15,000 copies per week, which is ok for a pretty academic subject by a professor. I know I am a lousy editor. I am more from the science/engineer/cyberworld part of the world, rather than the arts. That is what I love about having 3,000,000 other editors that can help me out here :) DanielDemaret (talk) 11:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I read the Wikipedia:Notability (books) that newpaper articles about the book might be enough so I added a few external references to some reviews, hoping that this would be enough. Is it? By the way, was the delete-sign added by a bot? It hit while I was editing the first draft, and few things are as fast as a bot. DanielDemaret (talk) 12:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Daniel, I am  as fast  as a bot :) but  only  sometimes. It  was nevertheless a pre-prepared message -  what  we call  a 'template'. We  generally  advise our  new page patrollers to  wait a while before 'tagging'  articles, but  sometime I instinctively  feel that  if I  can catch  the article creators while they  are still on  line, they  will  come back  to  me with  a nice message like yours and ask  for my  help. Many  creators just  leave a short  stub and go  away  never to  return. The main  issue facing  your article is one of notability. We  have some pretty  strict  policies about  inclusion, and if you've read WP:NBOOK, you'll see that  unless the book  has received some true accolades (standard reviews don't  count -  my  own books get  reviewed for jacket  notes and the publishers lists,  but  they  haven't  won a Booker or a Pulitzer!) The notice on  your article gives you  seven days to  find sources that  fully  assert notability, but  I'm afraid that  if there aren't  any, the article will be procedurally  deleted. On  the other hand, if the author were to  be notable and have a biography  in  Wikipedia, then there could be a short note about  the book  in  that  article. Don't  hesitate to  ask  me again  for any  advice. regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have no idea how to know whether it is notable or not, but it sure beats any of his previous books :) And almost all other books that I read when I studied Politics back in the stone ages :) Which for me is about 35 years ago. If it gets deleted, so be it. DanielDemaret (talk) 14:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I've removed the PROD notice, per the second point of Proposed deletion. This doesn't preclude the article being nominated at Articles for deletion, however. Daniel, you do need to do some further work to demonstrate that the book is notable. The more independent reliable sources you can add, the better. You should also consider changing your "external links" into inline citations; see WP:INCITE for how to do this. The article at present appears to be mostly a synopsis of the book's contents; this is not the best way to write such an article. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * That is very kind of you, Demiurge. What is the best way to write it? DanielDemaret (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * In terms of the content and structure of the article, have a look at the featured-class article The Slave Community, which is also about a non-fiction book in the field of history (and sociology and things). As you can see, only around a third of the article discusses what's actually in the book; and even that is backed up throughout by inline citations to reliable third party sources. The quickest way to work towards something like this, is to add a "Reception" section that summarises both positive and negative commentary about the book from the various reviews.


 * For other things to include, see WikiProject Books/Non-fiction article (which is a sub-page of the link Kudpung gave you). However, avoid taking too much notice of the "examples" on that page, as they seem to be examples of what not to do :-) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if I  didn't  sound so  kind ;) You'll  find a lot  of useful  information  here: WikiProject Books. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

You have both been most kind and helpful. I shall read your suggestions and take the time to digest it. I just wrote down the article off the top of my head from memory over a lunch break. Making a half decent article will take me a lot longer. DanielDemaret (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

PeerReviewBot block
I unblocked - the bot will archive any peer review that is older than 14 days and has not yet received any comments. PR is really backlogged and so some requests have been taking longer than 14 days, which is what happened to yours. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

PS Might I suggest that the next time you block a bot you leave a message on the operator's talk page? Thanks, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Please have a look over this
Please have a look over this article,Case of arakcheev and khudyakov.I have placed a Nominate for deletion tag,which means,everyone has a right to join in the discussion.I think this might be a complete hoax.As a Google search mentions nothing and it I suggest it should be moved to Wikinews if this is current.Please give your opinion.Dipankan001 (talk) 12:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It is certainly  a strange article, in  poor English, and totally  unreferenced. It  does not  appear to  be completely  neutral  either. I  think  you've done the right  thing by  sending  it to  AfD. We  now just  have to  wait and see what  happens. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Help with an article
Hi! I've been tangling with a copyright violation at Story-driven modelling and I'm trying to handle it without exacerbating the issue. The text was deleted last night per G12 then replace this morning with the copyvio still present. An interesting IP, has now removed all of the copyright text, leaving a stub. The text is fine now but there's no indication of importance. I see two problems, one is that the copyrighted text is still found in the history and two, the notability of the subject isn't established without the copyvio text (if it ever was). Rather than mark the article for A7 or take it to AfD which might cause more problems than good, I thought you might have suggestion.

Also, I got your email. I've been reading through the related articles and essays. I'll take some time to consider the idea and I'll let you know what I think.  Ol Yeller Talktome 15:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The page is now nothing but  a title and some lonks to  WP  pages. Don't  worry  about  the copyvio being  in  the history. I  would say check the linked articles, find one that  is closest  to  the page title  and make the page  redirect  to  it. Keep  on your  watch list  for reverts of the redirect. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Your request to delete Bioscrypt Inc. wikipedia page
Hi,

Bioscrypt Inc. is the global market leader in biometrics. It deserves space on Wikipedia as most it is the biggest company which has commercialized biometrics for consumers. I have nothing to do with this company, but I saw another article for another player in this market called Suprema Inc. How come, they can have their page but Bioscrypt cannot? Also, the references are not company links, they are third party websites. Infact, one link is Industry Canada profile page by the Government of Canada. Bioscrypt is in top 50 fastest growing companies in Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhinavcambridge (talk • contribs) 16:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. Not one single one of the 3 million  articles in  Wikipdia 'deserves' to  be here, it's all  a question  of providing  sources that  'prove'  the subject  of an article is notable.  Industry  Canada is simply  a company  listing and does not  give any  indication  why  the organisation  is notable,  and prnewswire.com appears to  be little more than  a news blog. Please check  out our policies at  WP:GNG (general  notability  guidelines, WP:ORG (inclusion  criteria for companies, and WP:RS (reliables sources), and if you  can meet these requirements there would be every  possibility  that the  importance of the company  will  be asserted. Sources should be in  established print  media or audited online versions of them. If  the company  has received high  awards for industry, especially  ones conferred by  governments, that  would be almost  conclusive  --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

curious about tags you added to a page I created
Hello Kudpung!

I've just created a page, Jim Lanzone, and noticed that you have tagged it as needing primary sources. I've included a number of outside references to where I gathered the information. Which content in general do you feel needs extra citation? I'd be happy to gather any extra info you feel is lacking.

Thanks for your help!

Roger O. Thornhill 17:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)


 * Hi Roger. I'm sorry  if you  find our  tags confusing (we're working  on  it). Quite to  the contrary: This article relies on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject, rather than references from independent authors and third-party publications. Please add citations from reliable sources   means that  it  relies almost  only  on  primary  sources -  those are the sources directly owned by or closely  connected to  the subject. What  we need are reliable independent  3rd party  sources. See WP:RS for more details. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hid Kudpung. i see... so is it just the LinkedIn links you refer to?  the other references come from tech-news sites like TechCrunch, CNET and SEO Roundtable.  Roger O. Thornhill 17:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)


 * CrunchBaseis not allowed - it's not  a news item . Twitter, LinkedIn, FaceBook, blogs, etc, are not  allowed. Any  sites that  just  have a company  profile or listing  are using  material  that  has been submitted by  the subject, their advertising  agent, press agent etc. The content  is not  audited.


 * Okay, I've swapped out those references you pointed out with third-party/news sources. would love your review when you have a moment.  thanks! Roger O. Thornhill 19:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)

Aham (film)
Hello, I noticed the refimprove tag you placed on the article Aham. Since this is a 1992 film, it is very difficult to find a lot of reference links. I added the IMDB link already for verifying the credibility of the article. Most of the links available for the film leads to the film or songs downloads or You-Tube links. Please advise how to improve such articles for films which are 20 years or older, when Internet was not so popular, especially in India (Kerala)? I will be updating the article with Infobox, DVD cover, plot summary, songs-list etc. Anish Viswa  07:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi. It's just a 'maintenance' tag; it's not  a warning  of deletion, and it  might  just  attract  the attention  of another editors who  can find more refs for it.  Happy  editing! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Autopatrolled
Sorry I have no idea. I am not putting a sub on them because in most cases there is not a lot more info to be had. One though though, does the algorithm look for pairs (because I am using the sfn)? -- PBS (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Phil. I  don't  think  so. At  present, I  believe we have no  filters  that react  to  page content  other than 'possible recreation'  or 'possible cut&paste' creation. I'm  not  familiar with  the tpl  you  are using - l looked at  it  and I  didn't really  understand what  it's for. Try  not  using  it  when you  next  create a page and see if the new page is still listed at  special:new pages. If  you  concur that  it  might  be a bug, let  me know because although I have no  tech  knowledge, I'm  working  closely  with  the people who  are looking  into  the performance of our  page patrolling  systems. Cheers, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:25, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * OK will do. But I have finished creating pages for the moment. I am now filling out ones that already exist. -- PBS (talk) 07:33, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI as promised a page just created with ref tags instead of sfn see Jose Maria de la Cueva, 14th Duke of Albuquerque I am in the process of creating another (this one was a link from that page) called Samuel Ford Whittingham on which I will use sfn-- PBS (talk) 12:52, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * From the patrol  log: (del/undel) 19:48, 21 October 2011 Philip Baird Shearer (talk | contribs | block) marked Jose Maria de la Cueva, 14th Duke of Albuquerque patrolled (automatic) ‎  but  it's listed in  special:new pages. Have you  checked your user rights log? Admins should be automatically  autopatrolled.When I  get  a moment  I  think  I'll  find a reason  to  create a page and see what  happens,  but  I've never known any  of my  creations to  be in  the new pages list. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * When I look at the log pages it does not return anything for pages created -- which can not be right -- how do I check my user rights log? -- PBS (talk) 12:16, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see now whats happened. This is from  your rights log:
 * (del/undel) 05:34, 7 June 2006 Taxman (talk | contribs | block) changed rights for User:Philip Baird Shearer from (none) to (none) ‎ (+sysop)
 * As an admin,  you  can give yourself the rights back. You  should have a Twinkle tab 'User', see user rights. If you  get  stuck, I'll  do  it  for you.   --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If yo look  at  my user rights, you'll see the difference. You  can change your own  user rights   here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:39, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I have never used Twinkle. I looked at your user rights and mine. I see that your has a much longer chain but I do not understand where in that process you gained other rights that the default admin group does not cover. I looked under Special:UserRights at yours and mine and I could not tell the difference. So I would appreciate it it you would do what ever it is that you think my account needs. Thanking you in anticipation PBS (talk) 06:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Check your user rights now ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:38, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Many thanks and sorry for the inconvenience I caused you. -- PBS (talk) 06:43, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No inconvenience at  all Phil. Happy  to  have been of assistance. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Sachin ghode
I am as keen as you on policing the Pune projects stuff but I feel you have been a bit hard on. Knuckle joint (mechanical) seems to me a totally valid stub and mechanical joint is even in User:Skysmith/Missing topics about Mechanics. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 10:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You may  well  be right, but  there is absolutely  no  intention  to  be hard on  anyone. I've been concentrating  of the new arrival  live feed in hope of catching  the articles rather than stopping  to  do  an in-depth  research  on  each  one and piecing  it  together. Andy  Dingley  is our  specialist  on  mechanical  engineering. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Moreton Hall
Dear Kudpung - you're fast! You're perfectly entitled to raise a conflict of interest - I am the current Headmaster of Moreton Hall. However, I'm not marketing the school as such, I'm merely contributing a factual account of the school's identity and history. Given the existence of other school pages on Wikipedia I'd like to contend that I'm simply redressing an inequity: Moreton Hall Preparatory School exists and has as much of a right to a mention. Clearly this is my first foray so I apologise for any unwitting blunders, but hope the article can stand for now, giving me a chance to fill a small gap oin the encyclopedia. Thank you Simon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.134.126.77 (talk) 11:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello Simon,I am  fast  but  only  sometimes, and as a former fellow school  administrator,and coordinator of the Wikipedia schools project, I  fully  sympathise. We  generally  advise our  new page patrollers to  wait a while before 'tagging'  articles, but  sometime I instinctively  feel that  if I  can catch  the article creators while they  are still on  line, they  will  come back  to  me with  a nice message like yours and ask  for my  help. Many  creators of school articles just  leave a short  stub and go  away  never to  return. The main  issue facing  your article is one of notability. We  have some pretty  strict  policies about  inclusion, and if you've read WP:WPSCH/AG you'll  see that  primary  schools are not  generally  considered notable for inclusion. Exceptions would be if they  are notable for some distinguishing  feature that  has received high  accolades, or wide coverage in  the media. We have thousands of   primary  school articles because with  over 1,000 new encyclopedia articles arriving  every day, some get  missed. We're working  slowly  through the backlog of non  notable schools, but  the fact  remains that your article may  not  meet our criteria for inclusion, and   is explained in  WP:OTHERSTUFF. Don't  hesitate to  ask  for further explanations. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Uh oh, another contested proposed deletion? :-) I wonder if the building itself, or the estate, might be notable - such an article would need to include some mention of its current and historical use anyway... Compare with Moreton Hall (Warwickshire), which seems to be notable mainly for having caught fire. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:04, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Re Moreton Hall Preparatory School, I had a snoop around. The school itself wouldn't pass WP:WPSCH/AG, but the building it's in is a Grade II listed building. Perhaps, I'll write an article about the building in which case a very brief mention of what it's used for now could be in order. But a stand alone article on the school, no. Voceditenore (talk) 13:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what  I  would have done if time permitted - but  check  it  out  carefully, because if memory  serves me right, there is another school which I  think  is an independent  high school probably  called Moreton Hall School, and it  might  be the school  that  is hosted in  the Gll building at  Moreton Hall.  Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The secondary school is in Warwickshire; the preparatory school (the one Simon raised) is in Suffolk. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I've checked it out, this one is in Suffolk and designed by Robert Adam, there's quite a lot of coverage of it, especially under its original name "St. Edmund's Hill". The name was changed to Moreton Hall in 1890. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:24, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably the best  way  to  do  it  is to  move the school  article to  the name of the house, then construct the  article about  the  building  around it. That  would keep Simon's original  contribution  and page history  intact. If  you  want  to  leave a redirect, it  would involve a 'move over redirect' which  needs an admin, but  a work  around would be to create a dab page for all  the 'Moreton somethings', and include the school  on  that, which  redirects to  the building. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:39, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I've just seen that  there is already  a dab for Moreton, so  you'll  just  need to  add the new pages to  it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:43, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. See Moreton Hall (Suffolk). I'll add more to it tomorrow. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

please check and advise
Hi,

I am not very good at this wiki service. please help me prove the swift & safe security wiki page or if you could please update it as you are a professional.

thanks & Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.134.117 (talk) 13:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello. The concern was WP:ADVERT, but that's not  the only  one. I'm  afraid it's unlikely  that the subject of   this article, a start up  company  with  no history  of notability, will qualify  for insertion  in  the Wikipedia for quite sometime. Please read WP:NOTABILITY,  WP:GNG, and WP:ORG, and WP:NOTDIR,  and the links you  were given  on  your talk  page. I know it's a lot  to  read, but  that's unfortunately the downside of being  the encyclopedia that  anyone can edit. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Criterion for Speedy deletion
Hey, Kudpung, just asking you something, if there is blatant copyvios from a blog then what criterion should I put it under speedy deletion because G12 won't exactly suffice cause, the blog may not have copyright protection, however blogs are not acceptable references. Are there any templates specific to this copyvio under bad reference problem, or do I just nominate it under G12?? Please revert back as soon as possible. Debastein1 (talk) " Lets make this world a better and  more informative place " 20:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Same copyvio criterion for a blog. Plagiarising  something  from  another source and claiming  to  be your own  work  is theft  of intellectual  property whether covered by  copyright  laws or not. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless the website or blog explictly states that its material is released under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License or the GNU Free Documentation License, it is copyright material. US law does not require an explicit © symbol or statement to assert copyright. Unless indicated otherwise, assume that anything published in print or on the internet after 1923 is copyright. Voceditenore (talk) 15:00, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Where the new page patrollers come from... part 2
Hi Kudpung, I wanted your thoughts on if this is a good idea;

Go to User talk:1966batfan. Scroll down to where it says something like "2. 1. Go to Special:NewPages". Read the part after that.

It appears that these instructions may be getting pasted to all of the adoptees of User:Fltyingpig, of whom there are at least three so far, and presumably going to be many more.

The instructions get some of the important ideas across, but I'm wondering if the level of information being provided in these lessons/instructions is enough for people to be going right ahead and patrolling new pages, even if they're only going to be doing three pages each?

(Maybe they'll do a lot more than three, if they like it.)

Fltyingpig is very responsive to feedback, and is currently fixing some other concerns I had about their adoption program. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:55, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Good morning! I'll take a look :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this took me over 40 minutes, but it  was necessary, and thanks for pointing  it  out, so here goes:
 * 3946 edits since 3/2011
 * patrolled only 1 (one) new page
 * very little participation  in  semi-admin  areas.
 * 2 articles created - it's odd that  they  are a memver of the WP:GOCE but  their own articles are tagged for clean up.
 * I may  be old fashioned, but  I  believe barnstars to  be an award for some exceptional services to  Wikipedia.
 * I don't  think  it's a very  good idea to  explain  the use of special  tools such  as Igloo  to  (or Huggle, etc.)  to  very  new users, and suggesting  they  apply  for rollback  rights -  (WP:BEANS)
 * I'm personally more concened in  teaching  very  new users how to  do NPP per WP:NPP, and I  have a special  set of instructions that  are much  simpler and easier to  understand than the WP:COPYVIO page.
 * I know it's a lot more hard work, but  I  do  believe that  mentorship  should be tailored to  the needs of each  adoptee. User:1966batfan, for ex&mple, has some very  specisfic problems that  I  think  should be addressed first, rather than going  through  a general  adoption programme.
 * I'm sure Fltyingpig is generally doing  a good job (but  should consider using  a sig that  reflects their username), and we need more of this, but  I do  regularly  come across other users who are very  new and inexperienced offering  to  mentor others. We  have a set of recommended conditions for mentors somewhere, maybe those should be looked at  again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:46, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this detailed analysis. I'll try and put together a set of suggested improvements for Fltyingpig's adoption school. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Detection of copyvios
Thanks again Kudpung, for helping me out by giving me the pointers while looking out for copyvios. I have been patrolling the pages created by the users of the IEP. I have been mainly going through the classes assigned to me. I do have my exams coming up, so I shall be a bit inactive. Once, they are over, I shall again resume my patrolling. I have kept a log of the pages I have sent for speedy deletion here. I hope this eases the burden that the users like you along with community is facing. Am trying my very best. Thanks for all the help and the hard work you put in everyday. I really feel inspired by the level of effort you put in. Hope one day I too can become an Administrator and defend Wikipedia like you do. If you have any issues whatsoever, feel free to revert back to me. Debastein1 (talk) " Lets make this world a better and  more informative place " 17:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If you can give me the list of students you're watching over, I'll be happy to take them on; that way, you'll do better on your exams and have more free time to work with us later in the semester instead of having to catch up ;). Seriously, though, I'm more than happy to pick up some of the slack.  I'm pretty good at catching copyvios. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 19:01, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Do we have a complete  list   yet  of: all the students' user names, all the known articles, and all  the ambassadors, that  can  be imported directly  into  a raw watchlist? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:13, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Need Help
Hello Kudpung, this is Survir. Can you please protect the following pages List of programs broadcast by Zee TV and List of programs broadcast by Imagine TV. The following IP user User:109.148.210.232 constantly vandalizing these pages by adding made up/hoax names of television series to the current/former shows list (the shows that never aired on these channels). He/she is also transfering shows list of one channel to another channel. By the way, the IP address changes every few days. I have reverted so many times but he/she keeps adding false information to these plus many other articles (you can view the list edited by this user by clicking on the IP address). Please help! I will be really thankful to you! Your friend Survir (talk) 00:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The disruption isn't  really persisitent  enough  to  protect the pages, but  I've warned the users. You  can also warn users yourself. Let  me  have the names of any  other articles that  are affected and the IPs. If the disruption  persists and then I'll look  again and protect  the pages or block  the users. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Biting newcomers
Apologies! My only intention was to speedily remove the page - not to frighten the newcomer. I see have you have already informed the account holder that he/she has made a mistake. I will write self-typed responses to this type of issue in the future. Thanks for pointing this out. Touch Of Light (talk) 02:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Date/time
I guess I'm just slow then... by a month... :-(  Maxim (talk)  19:18, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Naing Win Swe
Hi Kudpung,

I've put this up for discussion at AfD, per our conversation on my talkpage the other day. Just thought you'd like to know. Cheers, Yunshui (talk) 23:49, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Regression?
Hi Kudpung,

Philippe mentioned that you were looking for someone who could help you run a regression on some RfA data. Has that request been resolved, or are you still waiting? I might be able to help. If you email me the data, I should have something for you in a day or two :) Maryana (WMF) (talk) 02:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Maryana, no it  hasn't  been resolved - thank you  for your kind offer. I'll  get  back  to  you  later with  the data.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:55, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Interview with Wikimedia Foundation
Hello Kudpung, I hope you're well. My name is Aaron and I'm one of the Storytellers working on the 2011 fundraiser here at the Wikimedia Foundation. For this year's campaign we're seeking out and interviewing active Wikipedians like yourself, in order to produce a broader and more representative range of "personal appeals" to run come November. If you'd like to participate in this project, please email me at amuszalski@undefinedwikimedia.org. Interviews are typically conducted by phone or Skype and take between 30-90 minutes. Thanks! Aaron (WMF) (talk) 21:17, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP - technical question
Hi Kudpung. I've been patrolling from the end of the queue, but notice that if someone has moved, redirected, or deleted a page before marking it patrolled, it stubbornly remains in the list (as a blue link) and there doesn't seem to be any way of fixing it. 3 examples from the end of the queue: ‎Bisection Method, Design of Keys and shafts, ‎Structural Modeling. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I know about this but  I'm  afraid I'm  not  technically  minded enough  to  ofer any  explanation. I  know it's frustrating  to  click  on  article just  to  find it's already been moved, redirected, or deleted, but  I  don't  think  there's actually  going  to  be much  effort to  improve the special:new pages system because something  brand new id coming  up  sometime time soon that  will  replace all  this. If  you're interested, I'll  give you  a link  to  what  we're doing. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I just wanted to make sure it was a "normal" thing. Sure, give me the link. Even though NPP-ing will always be an occasional hobby for me, I'd be curious to see what's being developed. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * mw:New Page Triage should make NPP faster, and mw:Article creation workflow should help create higher-quality pages. → Σ  τ  c . 19:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * New Page Triage will not help create better new pages -  it  can never be a substitute for  the declined WP:ACTRIAL. It  will  increase the quality  of page patrolling  as a process, and will  ensure that  the patrollers are qualified (it's been the domain of inexperienced and very  young  users for too  long). We  don't  want  NPP  to  be faster -  heaven forbid! We  want  it  done properly, and that  also  means recruiting  new patrollers, but  ones of suitable maturity  and competence. When it's launched, the new Article Creation  Flow might deter new accounts from creating  utterly  worthless pages, and encourage serious new users to  create better quality  articles, but  only  a significant  period of operation of it (at  least  6 months) will  return any  usable stats. This all  needs to  be put together quickly before the IEP  begins its next  phase of expansion. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:50, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Notifying you
I am notifying you that I have copied the first (above) template from you to my talk page.Dipankan001 (talk) 15:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I saw that  already ;) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:33, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for notifying me about that!Dipankan001 (talk) 07:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:William Lane Craig
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''You have received this notice because your name is on Feedback request service. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from that page.'' RFC&#32;bot (talk) 11:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP
Any idea why deleted pages aren't disappearing from the end of the NPP backlog? I can't mark them as aptrolled, and they're filling up my screen with clicked-on links! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 11:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, we know about this. Will  probably  never get  fixed. I  think  all  dev time now is consecrated to  the entirely  new NPP  system.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:19, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * For now the only thing to do is use User:RHaworth's "Magic spell".--Mrmatiko (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Message delivery bot
I don't believe there are any delays with the bot. However, unless one of the qualified users approve the message it will not be sent out. I should be able to review your message though. --  Nascar 1996 ( Talk •  Contribs ) 15:48, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's the problem - the 'qualified' users took  ten days to  send the last  couple of messages if you  remember, and they  don't  appear to  respond to  talk  page messages very  much. I  just  would like some assurance that  this next  message would go  out in  an hour or two  of making  the bot request. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:55, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you send the request to the bot in the next hour, I will be able to approve it and it should will be sent out. --  Nascar 1996 ( Talk •  Contribs )
 * Well, the info for the message is not quite  complete yet, we're waiting  for the final  go  ahead from  our legal  department which  we should have some time on  Monday, but  then the message should be sent as quickly  as possible because its content  is tied to  a deadline,  and that's why  I'm  asking  in  advance if there are likely  to  be any  delays. Thanks for clarifying. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:30, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. The next time I'll be able to review the request would be around 10:00 UTC. --  Nascar 1996 ( Talk •  Contribs ) 01:52, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Who is actually  in  charge of this bot? I'm  surprised that  with  two  handlers, and a clerk(?), it 's not available 24/7. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * EdoDodo is in charge of the bot. --  Nascar 1996 ( Talk •  Contribs ) 02:17, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Precisely, and he does not  appear to  be very  active on  his talk  page ;) So  to  answer the original  question: how much  advance warning  do  you  guys need when a message needs to  be sent? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You can message me at my talkpage whenever you send the request to the Message Delivery Bot. --  Nascar 1996 ( Talk •  Contribs ) 10:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, will do. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP - MDCG
Hello , We haven't formally met. I'm Arjun Mangol Kanoth, and am the onsite CA for the Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics class under the IEP. I've been acting on your messages about certain problems that arise out of our class, on IEP and other talkpages, though I never spoke on Wiki about it. This message is just to say that if you have any queries or find any problems with my class, I'm the one to contact. And yes, I'm now helping the users working on Electric Steam Boiler and Boiler design, will sort out the problems ASAP. And I apologise if you found any ineptitude on my part, managing 173 students from two different classes was no mean task. There is a lax in editing at present due to Diwali holidays here. If we step in now, it gives us time to review everything and identify problems we have missed, so after this, editing will be a much smoother process, or so I hope. Cheers! --The Mangol (talk) 02:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Smiles --The Mangol (talk) 03:26, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Arjunmangol and thank you for  contacting me. I'm  not  actually  concerned with  personally  reviewiing  the individual  creations of the students. My  main  concerns are for finding  solutions to  the problems the IEP  has caused for our volunteers, the lack  of experience of the campus ambassadors (you  yourself have only  47 edits to  manspace), and what  we are going  to  do  when the IEP  enters its next  phase. The page you  will  find most  interesting to  read  is here. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. I beg to differ, the problems caused by IEP are the problems faced by newbies. With all due respect, I must say that most of the present CAs are very well versed in the Wikipedia policies and accepted norms. I might also add that the no. of edits doesn't determine experience at this stage, its just that our scope of editing and time spared is not on the greater side. I could have been a Wikignome myself, if I had the time. I've gone through the link you sent me, as a CA I'm primarily concerned about how efficient the editing process goes about and put in all my efforts to make it a smoother one. Here is what you'll want to read.
 * I am  fully  aware of all  the pages here on  en.Wiki  and on  MetaWiki, and I  was one of the first  users to  bring the problem  to  light  (see my  talk  page archives). I'll  also  point  out  that  there were problems with  the CAs' own  page creations. I  have also  had numerous conferences with  some of the major players in  this issue. I've offered help  in  training  the CAs where I  can, but  the organisers on  the Indian  side claim  they  have everything  well  in  hand. It  remains to be seen, but  future support from  the en.Wiki community may  not  be as forthcoming  as they hoped . --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:41, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your grievances Kudpung, and I really respect your diligence in keeping the Wiki precise and problem free. I assure you, we all have the best interests for the project at heart. Its just that, this is what is bound to happen when 1000+ newbies edit Wiki under the same banner, that highlights IEP and focuses the world's attention onto us. You must understand, the project was started with a dream, my country's potential and intellect of its million + students, if managed to be channeled in the right direction, will work wonders. We just have to give it time and patience. The way we would correct our children's mistakes repeatedly, the Wiki community would. This is just collaboration on a different level. Kindly bear with us.--The Mangol (talk) 04:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I fully  understand, and perhaps more than most  as I  have spent  82 hours on  this problem - as a volunteer. If  you  have really read the pages as I  asked you  to, you  will  see that  I  am  wholly  dedicated to  the  accuracy, expansion, and education  programmes of Wikipedia, and I am doing  do  my  best, also helping  on the development  of new tools and tutorials for page patrollers, to  help  it  stay  that  way. However, if those in  charge do  not  take the messages on  board, my  enthusiasm may  change for all this,  along  with  that  of many  others. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I intend to clarify Voceditenore's point concerning me on the Wikimedia Foundation India Programs talkpage, When I mentioned 173 students, I didn't actually mean 'all on my own'.I do have one or two other CAs who are helping me with it. Its just that, though not listed as the official CA assigned to the class, I being a part of that very class, the students eventually find it easier to come to me rather than someone else outside. Thanks :) The Mangol (talk) 09:40, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

IRC channel
I'm aware that you don't use IRC that much, but do you know if there's a specific IRC channel for NPP, where NP patrollers can discuss what they're doing and ask for advice? ขอบคุณ Sp33dyphil © • © 05:15, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't  think  there is. As long  as the discussions can be kept free of MySpacey and Twitter chat, the best  place for such  discussions is on-Wiki  where everyone can chime in  with  advice that  can also  be seen by  others who  follow watchlists and recent changes. A good hub  for NPP  questions is at  WT:NPP  which  is watched by  myself, other admins, and people with  lots of experience at  NPP. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: PANTHER JET
You templated the wrong person. You warned the person who tagged it for deletion instead of the creator. Lady of  Shalott  07:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that  out. It  really  does not  happen  often - I'm  the one usually  telling  patrollers how to  work (::hangs his head in  shame::) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:53, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * We all goof from time to time. :) Lady  of  Shalott  08:00, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

deletion removal.. i understand my error, i update andto update and re list my article.
hi, i am new to this wiki thing

as i was writing my article on Philip Micahel wolfson you deleted it. i understand my mistake but i can't update the file because of your deletion..

11:35, 24 October 2011 Kudpung (talk | contribs) deleted "Philip Michael Wolfson" ‎ (G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement: of http://www.wolfsondesign.com/press/2011/FORMS%20Q%20BOOK%202011web.pdf (Duplication Detector report))

ChrisRidout (talk) 12:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Chris. Unfortunately,  due to  strict  copyright laws, Wikipedia cannot  accept any  material  that  is copied in  whole or in  part from other sources. As you  have the sources from  where you  took  the information, I  am  you  will  be able to  write a new article without  infringing  Wikipedia copyright  rules. Please consider starting  the new article in  your user space. I  have any  further questions, don't  hesitate to  ask  me. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

For newcomers...

 * A simple primer: A Primer for newcomers
 * Instruction against COI: Wikipedia is not about YOU


 * I'm hoping these two essays will prevent at least a few premature or inproper articles, and actually help newcomers better understand this place (without overwhelming newcomers with Wikispeak and unfamiliar terms. See WP:KISS). Share them if you think it will help.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q.
 * These essays are a very good idea. However they  both  have very low hits, and need far  more backlinking from  other guidelines and essays. I  never knew about  them, but  now that  I  do  I'll  refer new users to  them. Would you  mind if I were to copyedit/rephrase parts of them?  --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably not. :) But which parts and in what way? I know they have low hits currently, but that is likely because they are less than 2 months old.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 13:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP
Kudpung, the legal team cleared the survey hours ago, hence why I've asked Snottywong to fire up the ion flux capacitors. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Replied on your  WMF tp. Snottywong  does not  have the list and I  have spent  hours preparing  it.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:40, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; I thought he was running the bot. Odd :S. It can be found here. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No, he just used a script  to  provide a basic list. I  have merged that  list  from  names from  other sources (it  took  literally  hours). The people at  MessageDeliveryBot  are pre-warned and I  will  be finalising  the invitation  with  the final  details. It  should be ready  to  go  in  an hour. Sorry  for the slight  delay  but  it is early  morning  here and  I've just  got up. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * That's okay :). Thanks again for all your help with this! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:57, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thank you! If you  need any  help  on  German bands 1974 - 1989, don't  hesitate to  ask. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

RfA criteria
So I just saw your criteria, and your criteria disallows reformed vandals from years ago, and/or a wrong templating. I suggest from changing it to "No well placed warnings on vandalism in the past 6 months". Ebe 123  (+) $talk Contribs$ 10:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you  for your interest. I  think  I  have a lot  of experience in  RfA  matters and I  won't  be changing  it. You  may  wish  to  read WP:Advice for RfA candidates -  you'll  find a long  list of criteria practiced by  other experienced users and admins, but  I  wouldn't  recommend telling  them  to  change them ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Advertisement tag
Hello,

I recently wrote an article on COGEN Europe and saw that you gave it an advertisement tag. I modified it a bit since then, but maybe not enough. Since I am new to writing for wikipedia I was thinking that maybe you could briefly (don't want to take up to much of your time) tell me what you thought was wrong....or maybe just an example of what struck you as bias.

Thank you in advance for your reply Bogdan 007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogdan 007 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. The article is actually written like a blatant advert. Note the number of times the word COGEN apperas i  capitals. I  also  note that  all  the references are to  sources. Please check out our conditions for insertion  of article about  companies at  WP:ORG. If you  need more advice, please don't  hesitate to ask..

Talkback
Thanks a lot for the fast reply. I can see why you might have tagged it as an advertisement. The problem, is that the organisation is actually spelled with capital letters :). I'll try and use pronouns more and maybe refer to it by its longer name. With regard to the sources, I though I had quite a few secondary sources compared to other articles on similar sized organisations. I'll take a second look at it anyway.

Cheers Bogdan 007 (talk) 12:39, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. I actually  think  the article needs a complete rewrite for neutrality, and the sources must  not  only  be secondary and independent, they  must  also  clearly  establish  WP:NOTABILITY. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 12:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey its me again the guy with the COGEN page.... look I've been really banging my head on how to rewrite the article, gave it a few days but I can't really think of a way in which to radically alter the way its written. It really just describes what the organisation is doing and the only reason I mentioned some specific dossiers or report was in order to achieve notability.

Anyway I did adjust it a little, deleting a sentence in which I said that the organisations aims to assure the interest of its members.... and changed the last paragraph a bit....and of course as previously mentioned made more use of pronouns. Not a radical makeover as previously mentioned.

With regard to notability, I think I covered it better than other articles that are out there on wikipedia. I know the publications are all European, but this is where the organisation conducts its activities. I have a reference from Euractiv - reference No. 8 (a very reliable an well known source) which is an interview with the managing director of Cogen Europe. I also have a reference from the European Commission which outlines one of their reports (reference No. 21) and also a few from COSPP (Cogeneration and onsite power production) - an important publication in this field - which emphasize their activities. I could have given more, but then would have had to mention more of their activities.....and apparently the article already says to much about them :).

Just a final note, I used the Friends of Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Europe) article as a model (because it is a similar size organisation), and I don't see much difference in that article's tone and the one I wrote, and with regard to notability, mine covers it a bit better I think.

Sorry fur such a long message, but I just wanted to argue my case a bit better. If you still don't see fit to remove the advert tag or to sorta tell me specifically what bothers you about it, then I really hope that some other users out there will help me out more on this.

Thanks again for your time Bogdan 007 (talk) 09:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP
Hey, Kudpung. I've recently started patrolling pages via NPP instead of just through filters (special page tags). So far, it seems to take me about an average of 4 minutes to assess and treat an article. I have noticed that some editors are taking 10 to 12 seconds to assess and treat an article. That seems sort of alarming to me. Is there any sort of common time it takes experienced patrollers to assess a page. Also, is there an average amount of patrol time that is too short? I'm worried that these other editors that do five pages in one minute may be causing more problems than they're solving. I know you're experienced in patrolling so I thought I'd ask you.

Also, if you have any suggestions for me outside of what I've read at WP:NPP, please let me know.  Ol Yeller21 Talktome  22:03, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi OlYeller. We are also extremely  concerned that  patrollers are not  following  the instructions at WP:NPP and this is why  we have launched a survey  at  here. This will  help  us to  complete the development  of some new tools for patrollers, and perhaps suggest  that  patrolling  should be a user right. There is no  fixed amount  of time that  should be dedicated to  the patrolling  of a page. If all  the controls  are carried out  it  can take as much  as an hour to  untangle a WP:COPYVIO, for example. I  do  a huge amount  of page patrolling  because I  am  also  controlling  the work  of the patrollers; unless I  come across blatant  CSD pages that  I  can instantly  delete with  my  admin  tools, and the very  few pages that  do  not  need more than a mild maintenance tag  or two, it  never takes me with  my  experience less than around 3 minutes to  patrol  a page.  Editors who do five pages in one minute are indeed  causing far more problems than they're solving. Thank  you  for your support and feedback, do  keep  me posted. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey again. I have a question about improvement templates.  There seems to be a grey area as to how these templates should be applied.  I'll often find an article that needs 4+ but don't want to place several tags on a new article.  Additionally, I want a new editor to understand the problems that the article has and ways that it can be improved in a concise, non-bite-y way.  WP:NPP doesn't really say much on over-templating or vague templating.  Have any suggestions?


 * The most common combination I find is wikify, unreferenced/refimprove, uncategorized, deadend, and orphan. Placing all seems to confuse/alarm newbies sometimes so I'm looking for a better way to handle the issue without stopping to make major edits on a page while patrolling. OlYeller21  Talktome 15:30, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Nobody expects us to  rewrite pages while we're on  patrol (I do, but  I'm  a mug). Nevertheless all  the recommended checks should be done, and stub templates and cats added wherever possible, and minor fixes such  as indentation, bold lead sentence name, ref section & reflist, etc. For pages that are worth  keeping,  that  should be enough, and it  will  already  avoid placing  some of the sillier maintenance tags. I  often paste one of my  custom user messages that I  have in  my  special  clipboard, such  as "Thank you  for your contribution of xxxxxxxx. I have done some minor fixes for you, and you  may  wish  to  return to  the article and see what   still  needs to  be done; if you  need any  help, don't hesitate to  ask  me on  my  talk page. Happy editing! ~ "
 * I don't  believe in  orphan tags, and never use them -  IMHO, there is no  logical reason  why  every  page can or must  be backlinked. The thing  that annoys me most  is long long  lists of  references. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:55, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Old Malvernians PR
Glad my review was helpful. I think it would be a lot of work, but I do not see getting the Old Malvernians list to FL as impossible. What part do you see as impossible? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:16, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Mainly obtaining  fine deteils such  as the exact dates the alumlni  attended, the houses they  were in, and having  the same amount  of text  in  each  table cell, etc. I  come from  Malvern, but  it  was not  my  school, nevertheless MalCol  is one of the top  5 or 6 independent  schools in  the UK. I'm  doing  this as the creator/major editor  of all  the Malvern articles, and coordinator of the WP:WORCS project. One of the major contributors to  the Almni  page is Abacchus1974 who is, I  believe an older alumnus, and what  he can't  find, no one else probably  will. When I'm  in  the UK, I  go  to  a lot  of schools to  research  for info for WP  articles, but  the schools are never very  helpful. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not see houses as required, it was just a suggestion on my part (too much Harry Potter ;-) ). I also think if the birth (and if applicable) death dates were given for each person, that would also be OK. For American schools listing alumni by the class year is pretty common (so John Smith, '97 or Mary Jones, '08), but if that is not the British custom, then I would not worry about it. I think what is more important is that students have been attneding Malvern for about 150 years, so giving some indication of when they lived / when they were there is helpful to WP:PCR Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This will surprise you: I'm  62 and a retired British prof, but  even I  am  not  sure what  'Class of X' means! Is it the beginning  year  or the graduation year? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:38, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * What did Churchill say - the British and the Americans were two people separated by a common language? It is the year of graduation (assume because students may take longer or occasionally shorter times to graduate than expected on matriculation (entry)). Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:06, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP question
I go thru Recently created biographies of living people everyday and do an assortment of stuff to the articles via AWB. On some of the article, I manually add a Prod, go over the article for nobility, etc. Is there an easy way to mark the those articles patrolled? Bgwhite (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In short, I  don't  think so. I  can't  use AWB on Mac so  I don't  really  no. How do  those BLPs get  into  that  cat  anyway?  In fact, ironically,  we're currently  doing  everything  in  our power to  get  people to  slow down with  their tagging. To  be done properly, page patrolling  needs all the operations listed in  WP:NPP carrying  out. Currently  there are editors using  AWB just  to post  'Wikify', 'NoCat', and 'Orphan' tags and doing  nothing  else. This does not  help  at all and simply  duplicates work  for others. When we get  round to  it, we'll   these editors and ask  them  to stop)  doing it -  what  with  the current  IEP problem, and CorenBot  being  down, NPP which  was already  in  a sorry  state, is now in  an even bigger mess. If  you  find any  pages like that  on  your travels, please consider putting a friendly  warning  on  the patroller's talk page - manually, of course ;)   or referring  them  to  me. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:05, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstood my misunderstanding. :)  Long story... I use AWB to add persondata, defaultsort, do general cleanups on articles.  I also tag the talk page with parameters in WikiProject Biography and add any other WikiProjects that I can remember.  There is so many WikiProjects that I can't remember them all.  I don't add the wikify or orphan tag and nothing else as there has to be another reason to edit the article.
 * The question relates to when I'm viewing the page in a web browser. There are times when an article doesn't "seem right" while viewing in AWB, so I bring it up in Firefox and go over it more.  Does the article deserve a Prod, AfD, refs not reliable, etc.  This is when I wonder if I can mark the page patrolled.
 * Recently created biographies of living people get created just after 0z everyday (when toolserver is actually working). It and other Database reports are created by User:MZMcBride.  After the 0z database report runs, User:LaraBot adds WikiProject Biography to the articles talk page.  Larabot doesn't add listas parameter and the article gets dumped into Category:Biography articles without listas parameter.  A couple of us editors finally cleared this category out which is how I got into this mess to begin with.
 * FYI.. I also cleared out and view Category:Biography articles without living parameter and Category:Biography articles needing priority parameter replacement. I'm currently working on some other tracking categories. So, I see alot of new biographies that get created. Bgwhite (talk) 19:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I  don't  do  any  kind of automated edits or the kind of work  you  do automaticaly and have no  experience with  AWB (because I  use Mac), so  I can't  be of much  help. As far as I  know, the 'Mark this page as patrolled' button  is only  visible when pages are opened from  special:new pages./ BY  all  means tag  pages for CSD, PROD, and BLPPROD, but  you  must  also  remember to  enter the correct  criteria and warn the user. AFAIK a bot  will  then marke the page as patrolled so  that  it  now longer shows in  special:new pages. The resof the operations you  are doing  are essential and I  believe there are no  issues when using  AWB. Keep  up  the good work. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know about essential and good work. My using AWB is not really automated edits... I still do things manually and check to make sure the edits are correct.  AWB just helps me go a little faster and corrects small things (spelling mistakes or syntax) along the way that I couldn't do.  I was talking with some friends on a talk page and they were mentioning some habitual problem editors.  Long story short, I mentioned that they along with you and some other editors help me keep the faith and continue on with Wikipedia.  I really do appreciate your level-head and great comments wherever I find them. I often think of you as the sage of Wikipedia.  Thank you for all your help. Bgwhite (talk) 05:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you  for the kind words Bg. Make no  mistake, I've seen your edit  log,  and the work  you  do is essential. As a matter of fact I  tried to  use AWB on  my  secretary's PC last  night to  deliver an urgent  bot  message to  thousands of users, but  I  found what  I  needed to do  was rather a challenge. I'll  have to  take time to  learn  more about  it. It's a shame I'm  not  an expert  in  more areas, but  I  don't  think  any  admin  can do  that. Nevertheless, if ever you  have any  questions, don't  hesitate to  ask, and perhaps I  can point  you  to  the people who  can help. Best, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:48, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

World class manufacturing
If World class manufacturing was a blatant copyright violation, is not the creator's user page just as bad? WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:32, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being on  the ball. I'll  delete it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Chaitnyasandbox
Hi. I guess you made a mistake here. You moved this sanbox from main space to another main space (Chaitanya.gayke/Sandbox). I guess you wanted to move it to User:Chaitanya.gayke/Sandbox? &mdash;  Abhishek  Talk 08:48, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks! (None of us is purfik'). --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:54, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool. &mdash;  Abhishek   Talk 08:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mark Sukhija
I removed the prod tag you placed on Mark Sukhija, as the article creator's (inappropriate) use of the tag and the message left on the talk page indicates that deletion is not uncontroversial. I did this only in the interest of WP:AGF; I have no opinion one way or the other on the merits of deletion. Please consider opening an AfD if you still wish to pursue deletion. Thanks! &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 13:47, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:36, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Update on IEP
In case you are not informed, the following is a link to the complete list of students of the IEP.
 * India Education Program/Students

Sorry I haven't been of much help lately. Debastein1 (talk) 11:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Google indexing of user pages
If you have read my responses to you recent message on my talk page, you will have seen that I said "I think they (user pages) shouldn't be (Google indexed), but they are". Since then I have remembered that someone or other once pointed out to me that there are actually some advantages in having them indexed. For example, sometimes the following happens. I see an article which looks like a likely copyright infringement, so I do a Google search for some of its content. Google throws up both the original page that it's a copyvio of and a user page with the same content, which would otherwise have escaped notice. I am sure have come across other circumstances too where this is an advantage, but that's the one that comes to mind now. So there are, I think, both pros and cons. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:34, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your feedback James. I'm  not personally  concerned about  the indexing, but  I  thought  it was just  unusual. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Access Denied
I'm confused, I was never involved with Access Denied. Secret account 06:31, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * There was a link to  it  on  your previous RfA, and as I  said, I'm  now in  the middle of in-depth  research before changing  my  !vote. This may  take me an hour or so. If the Access Denied issues proves to be irrelevant, I  will  of course naturally  withdraw my  comment  on  it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I still don't see the link, but sounds sensible enough. Thanks Secret account 06:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

another barnstar for you!
Thank you Mabdull, that's very  kind of you :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Theycallmepiano
Kudpung, I've just politely declined an article by 'Piano' at AfC. I see that this was the second attempt by the same user today. I don't know what was in the first one, but if the second is identical then ... I thought you ought to know. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll  look  into  it. The deleted post  was one line with  a promotional  EL. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:02, 30 October 2011 (UTC)