Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Archive 18

Chief White Eagle
This article is in error...Basil F. Heath was born in London and is of Brazilian and English heritage. The daughter of his sister, Valerie Peterson (mentioned on the entry), has his English birth certificate and family history. How Can this entry be corrected? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_White_Eagle Laamka (talk) 12:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)laamka


 * You can click "edit" and change it yourself, but for the changes to stay, you will need a citation. Has anyone written about this? Is the birth certificate published online or in print media where others can see it and verify that it's a reliable source? - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 15:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't read every source thoroughly yet, but so far it looks like we have a number of problems here. I don't see any Indigenous sources. I don't see any evidence that any tribe or nation claimed this individual. I only see human interest pieces in non-Native media that look to me to rely soley on his or his wife's claims. Even if he was Mohawk (which looks to me to be unlikely), we don't use titles or honorifics in page names on Wikipedia. I'm thinking there's a lot that needs to be fixed here. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 15:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Articles like these are challenges, since there's barely any published, secondary sources about this guy—mainly blogs. The newspaper articles echo his purported bio. I tried to find a "facts disputed" template to post at the top of the article but couldn't find one (surely there is one)., if you are in touch with the sister, could you convince her to publish an article in a relevant newspaper? Yuchitown (talk) 15:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Editing now. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Saved. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Are primary documents acceptable as proof? My friend is the niece of Basil F. Heath and has him on a family tree on Ancestry.com and has his birth record, birth certificate and immigration ship log.  If she makes the tree public, does that count as a reference?  Laamka (talk) 21:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)Laamka
 * While I personally think a well-sourced tree would be useful, I think there's a general reluctance on WP to use ancestry.com, mostly because many trees there aren't well-sourced, or contain inaccuracies. But that would be a start if it's sourced to legal documents, especially if we could link to those documents. She could also set up a personal site where she scans in the documents and states what they are. As a relative with access to documents, her official site would carry more weight than an unrelated person. Ideally, I agree with Yuchitown that giving an interview and a copy of the documents to a journalist could result in some very solid sourcing. That's what Iron Eyes Cody's siblings did after he died, and those sources are now used in his article. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 21:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

- I just heard back from a First Nations genealogist who has also found evidence, including source documents, that this guy was born in England. He was also married in the US, in either Indiana or Illinois, not on any reserve in Canada. This lines up with all the other ways in which his presentation did not reflect First Nations culture. I think we are looking at a whole pandora's box of fabrications here. It will have to be documented in a manner suitable for WP:RS citation, but as I'm checking the sourcing on the article now and most of it goes to dead links, this may wind up with him being most notable for pulling an Iron Eyes Cody/Grey Owl. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 17:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Based on your earlier suggestions, my friend and I have begun to build a website with links to documents. We just started and have more to add, but here it is so far https://basilheath.wordpress.com/  Will this kind of documentation be suitable? He has tribal blood, but that is from South America, not North America. By the way, that marriage in Indiana was his second marriage and I believe that wife, Roberta Hannaway, may have been North American First Nation. 17:42, 18 May 2016 (UTC) Laamka (talk) 17:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, blogs are generally not deemed reliable sources, though with an extensive bibliography to hardcopy sources, maybe. (I wonder if "White Eagle" is the individual who gave rise to the insult "culture vulture"?  )   Montanabw (talk)  23:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * To make it more likely to be acceptable as a WP source, you can use the wordpress software for formatting the website code, but you'll want to buy a real domain name, and source everything on the site extensively to solid documentation. All the writing should be credited to the authors in question, with bios that indicate why they are authorities on this topic. Scan in copies of the source documents if you have them. Post photos if that's all you have. If you have hardcopies of the documents, get them notarized if possible. Make it as thorough and official as you can. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:52, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits over at Navajo
Could use more eyes. Especially on these: and the hugely-unsourced article, Diné Bahaneʼ, a link to which the user swapped in in place of the link to Navajo ethnobotany. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The info added looks pretty accurate actually. Yuchitown (talk) 21:56, 1 June 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Black drink again
There are some users who seem determined to rely on outdated anthro books and other misinformation... this is going to result in people being poisoned. This is a serious liability issue for WP. I've gone through this article and done cleanup before, but don't have time right now. and other ethnobotany peeps, we could really use expert input here. I'll go flag the article for that, as well. I am very concerned at the inaccurate stuff that is being re-added. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 21:10, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * If it has medical health implications, perhaps a ping to Doc James and other folks at MEDRS is in order. They will shut down un-scienfic claims fast. That said, they are not always gentle about it, but if you want to ping an MD, Doc is, literally, your guy.   Montanabw (talk)  02:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Project: Atikamekw knowledge, culture and language
Hello, you are welcome to have a look at the project Atikamekw knowledge, culture and language in Wikimedia projects. We are looking for endorsements and contributions! Best, Seeris (talk) 04:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Anyone in the mood for massive cleanup?
Boldness called for at Native American Music Awards, Jim Boyd (musician), and I'd also look into connected articles. I've recently noticed these look to have been largely written by a spammy COI spa, and need to be overhauled possibly to the point of WP:TNT. See flags up top and edit history. Thanks. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 22:24, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * A quick glance at the Nammy article reveals a pattern of similar editing by various redlinked users throughout its history. Probably too stale for a sockpuppet investigation on the last two with similar enough usernames, though.  As for the Boyd article, this is pretty much the same as what happens all over the encyclopedia following someone's death, people come here to dump the results of today's or yesterday's headlines/trending topics.
 * While on this subject, I had a related concern. I've been thinking for quite some time about writing an article on Marc Brown and the Blues Crew (see photo and file description).  I understand that a band which has existed primarily as a localized bar band may amount to a hard sell to the average Wikipedian.  However, there were a recent slew of pornstar AFDs wherein articles were deleted or kept solely based upon whether or not they won some award which most folks have never heard of.  In principle, wouldn't the same criteria apply to Nammy winners? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  07:54, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

This article was nominated for deletion. Discussion is here: Articles for deletion/Native American Music Awards. Yuchitown (talk) 17:42, 2 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown


 * AfD is a cespit of systemic bias. Save what you can and remember that quality and notability are not the same thing!   Montanabw (talk)  02:56, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of Grey Owl
The article could use some more eyes. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 20:54, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Major missing article: Native American nation
We seem to have no article on the legal concept of the Native American nation (e.g. Navajo Nation, etc), for the collective entities with whom the US has various (mostly pre-20th-century) treaties. We have a historical/general article at Native Americans in the United States, an ethno-cultural one at Tribe (Native American), and a geographical one at Indian reservation, but nothing legal/conceptual about this particular concept of nation. Such an article is a gaping hole in our coverage of topics like Nation, State (polity), Country, Microstate, and the differences between them. The Nation article does not mention the idea at all; this seems to be rather glaring WP:Systemic bias example. (PS: Such an article should have redirects from historical terms like American Indian nation, Amerindian nation, etc.; from plurals at "... nations"; and from capitalizations at "... Nation[s]".)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  13:11, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that this seems like a major omission. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:23, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Even your example is mixed up mashup as Navajo Nation serves as both the nation article and the article for the major Navajo reservation ("Navajo reservation" redirects there but the small satellite reservations have separate articles). Rmhermen (talk) 15:52, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There is Tribe (Native American), Tribal sovereignty in the United States, Alaska Native corporation, List of Alaska Native tribal entities, List of federally recognized tribes, and List of federally recognized tribes by state. Since the lists of Native nations in Alaska and the Lower 48 are split, Native American nation should probably redirect to Tribe (Native American) or Tribal sovereignty. "Tribe" might mean one thing to anthropologists, but in US law, it refers to an Indigenous domestic dependent nation. (Note: Domestic dependent nations in the United States redirects to Tribal sovereignty). The concept is already covered; it's just a matter of redirecting the name to the best possible article. Yuchitown (talk) 18:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown


 * There is not a specific legal designation for "Native American nation" in American law other than the "domestic dependent nations" status described at Tribal sovereignty in the United States. This would be a "made up title."  What we do have is List of federally recognized tribes.  I see no reason to create an article about a fuzzy term that would pretty much be a violation of WP:SYNTH.  The problem of "what is a 'nation'"? plagues many groups worldwide (the best-known example probably being the Kurdistan question). If a crapload of redirects solves this particular problem, I have no problem doing so, but I would take issue with creating content fork articles about concepts that don't exist and serve only to further confuse people about the already very confusing legal world of tribal sovereignty.  Montanabw (talk)  20:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Without further information, I presently agree with Montanabw. Although I have not spent much time reviewing all the RS on this subject, from the combination of my knowledge gathered visiting such a "Native American Nation", which locals definitely said was not free and sovereign from the U.S. rule (e.g. "domestic dependent nation" does match compatible), and my further research after the visit confirmed what locals said, and listening to their radio station (http://www.kiliradio.org/), and a brief review of our articles just now, I do not see any major gap in our articles.  I have not heard this term "Native American Nation".  SMcCandlish:  If you have RS that describes it, please show us. I'm not even yet convinced a link is necessary.
 * I agree with Montanabw that the term "nation" also appears to be fuzzy--although so are all words. More complicated is the fact that often words or phrases do not translate between languages (there is no 1-to-1 correspondence as some naive linguists may have once thought [See ]).  When the Europeans met the Native Americans, I think we can safely assume none of the tribes used the word "nation", but they likely used words or phrases that Europeans interpreted to mean something equivalent to "nation".  If indeed such a translation took place, and the concept "nation" was clearly distinctly different than that of the European concept, and acknowledged by linguists to be distinctly different, then I would agree with SMcCandlish that we need to cover it.  But I would like to see the RS that identifies a unique acknowledged difference of the word by linguists.  Have we consulted the OED?  --David Tornheim (talk) 19:48, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I went ahead a created a redirect (if folks vote to change the redirect, that's fine). Yes, absolutely tribes had words that mean nation, notably oyate in Lakota and Dakota. Contemporary perceptions of the nation has been historically influenced by Native tribes. But yes, Native American nation is not a legal term nor is it in common parlance, so a redirect should suffice. Yuchitown (talk) 20:50, 8 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Thanks, for the word. With a quick Google, I found this .  Good reading!  --David Tornheim (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Eagle-bone whistle
If you see the issue, please keep an eye on this. If you don't, I can't discuss it here. I have asked the admin who is working on it to contact me. I hope he does. :( -  Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 02:44, 15 July 2016 (UTC

has not emailed me, so I have pinged them on the article talk page and addressed the issue there. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * How does Wikipedia deal with N. America being traditional oral and Europe being written? Hyacinth (talk) 22:18, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:42. If it is not accurately written down, then we cannot use it.  A lot of oral histories taken down by non-native people have cultural bias in their understanding and translations.  Some sources are better than others, best to be very careful with them.   Montanabw (talk)  22:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I've nominated the image previously used for deletion and added some notes to the article and talk page requesting that music related categories and requests not be added. Hyacinth (talk) 23:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Seconding Montana here. We can't use non-WP:RS sources. We have to rely on cultural experts whether these are reliable. We have folks in this Wikiproject who have long edited in this field, and who are part of living Native American cultures. The request to not use these unreliable sources is coming from experts in the field. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 00:02, 16 July 2016 (UTC)


 * With the amount of detail and sources removed, which sources and claims are still in question? Hyacinth (talk) 01:11, 16 July 2016 (UTC) [modified: 01:27, 16 July 2016 (UTC)]


 * Let's take that discussion back to the talk page of the article. This is a more general discussion.  As a non-Native person, I know that some historians have very carefully researched and have taken down accurate information that has been cross-checked by tribal experts.  Other "experts" are often self-appointed and their research is far more sketchy.    Montanabw (talk)  03:19, 16 July 2016 (UTC)


 * On Wikipedia I could claim to be a toaster or an Native American Studies professor. I could also claim that a source is completely unreliable or infinite perfection. The conflict between written and oral cultures, and the conflict between European anthropology viewpoints and Indian NAS viewpoints is a common issue in NAS, and if Wikipedia does not have an attempt to deal with this issue it should.
 * Though not a toaster, the first thing that comes to my mind is a list of sources, claimed to be unreliable in reliable (and/or multiple) sources, that users could point to so as to justify the removal of unreliable content. Second, to my mind, a policy (or at least essay) that users could point to suggesting the use of references from an Indian and/or academic viewpoint. Hyacinth (talk) 20:34, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * When tribes would like to include tribal oral history I would suggest publishing it first on a tribal website or in a tribal journal. Since official tribal sites and journals are RS for the viewponts of the tribes on their own culture, such sites can be cited as sources in our articles. Otherwise I would suggest find anthropological sources that represent oral tradition - such sources were collected among most tribes in the early 20th century - although they may of course not be definitive and sometimes quite problematic anthropological publications often do include information about how native people spoke and thought about their own cultures in that period.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:54, 16 July 2016 (UTC)


 * It would be great then if Wikipedia had an explanation of how the use of tribal sources doesn't conflict with WP:42 (WP:INDY). Hyacinth (talk) 00:06, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That is not an actual policy or guideline, so there is no conflict. WP:RS is clear that even personal blogs are admissible. Gvernmental or organizational sources are reliable sources for the official view points of governments and organisations. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:RS doesn't mention the term "oral", as in oral history or culture (or even "literate" as in "pre-literate"), and there is no Oral history. Hyacinth (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither does WP:OR. Hyacinth (talk) 00:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a list of reliable references should be created, with citations indicating their reliability. Hyacinth (talk) 22:16, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a policy or essay encouraging the recognition of tribe's individuality over the depiction of a single continent with a single culture. Hyacinth (talk) 00:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Established policies already cover most of the issues. Sources must be secondary, published sources, end of story—otherwise the material does belong in an encyclopedia. Not all published sources are factually correct, so more recent, peer-reviewed scholarly sources are preferred, as are sources coming from communities (Native people publishing about Native topics). If Native people are *not* publishing about a subject, that's a clue that the material does not belong in an encyclopedia. Oral culture is meant to be shared directly between two or more living people. As ·maunus pointed out, if a tribe wants to share information, the members are absolutely capable of publishing it in their tribal newspapers or on their website. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Yuchitown (talk) 17:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Sources have to be written to be citable and verifiable. So Oral sources are simply not permissible - Oral history can be cited only in its written form.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Seconding both Yuchitown and Maunus here. Existing policies already cover these issues. On WP, it's also understood, I think, that content-creators are responsible for being knowledgeable in the fields in which they wish to write, and able to evaluate the sources used. Anyone who is an expert in any field has to deal with this when editors discover a group of articles for the first time and want to work on them without being sufficiently familiar with the sources or subject matter. It's not just a Native issue, by any means. Over time, we learn who does and doesn't know the field, who is and isn't experienced at WP:IRS for that field.
 * With Native issues, however, it can be particularly frustrating due to there being so much misinformation out there about living Native cultures, Natives in academia, cultural boundaries, and the fact that we have people from the living cultures participating here on Wikipedia, right now, reading this and editing, so we do not need, for instance, outdated and inaccurate depictions by anthros. I know that most of the non-Natives who want to help on these articles do mean well, but at the same time some really misinformed and insulting things keep getting said or implied by people new to this field. I'm not going to focus on that, but we do see it. I think it's a credit to the commitment to civility and patience of our project members here that we've just focused on improving articles despite it all. Peace. -  Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 20:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Could you, Yuchitown, or Maunus please point me to these policies which cover these issues? Hyacinth (talk) 03:58, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I know, these fucking stupid obviously white people who are obviously without advanced degrees in Indian viewpoint based Native American Studies. Peace. Hyacinth (talk) 22:21, 20 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Identifying reliable sources seems like it would cover everything here. As Native people, we are perfectly capable of getting important material published in books, journals, and newspapers. If it isn't published, it doesn't belong here. Yuchitown (talk) 05:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * WP:V covers the basics of verifiability, which is the problem with oral sources - nobody else can verify whether they are being used correctly unless oral testimonies they are first written down for others to consult. Secondly WP:OR covers the fact that if we go out and collect oral testimonies ourselves and write it down, that is original research - and cannot be cited untill it is published by some publisher that thereby vouches for the work's quality and reliabilty.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:22, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, I don't see that as a problem. If we want to do original research, we do it outside the scope of Wikipedia. The oral history of every tribe doesn't necessarily belong all over the Internet. Since indigenous intellectual property rights are serious issues, the academic community can grapple with that—or tribes can decide what they want to disclose. Then Wikipedians are free share what has been vetted. Yuchitown (talk) 16:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Yes, as I linked to in my response above, and as multiple editors have answered repeatedly, Identifying reliable sources, aka WP:IRS covers this, same as it does for Wikipedians of any culture, race, topic or ethnicity. :) - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 18:04, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Could anyone quote the race blind policies which so clearly already cover this issue or these issues? Hyacinth (talk) 00:25, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If you personally believe that all the core, basic, WP policies and principles need to be amended with a sentence that says, "This policy applies no matter the race, creed or color of the editor, editors, or topic being edited," or some other idea that I am missing here, you will need to take that up with the Wikipedia community as a whole, not with the members of an already-overworked minority wikiproject such as ourselves. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 16:47, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

The "issue" with Eagle-bone whistle hasn't been named. No specific problems with the article have been discussed here: no specific claims, quotations, or references have been questioned, and neither has the existence of the article. I assume that means that I've either distracted you enough with questions that you forgot about the article, there was no issue in the first place, or that the article has improved during this discussion. Hyacinth (talk) 22:18, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hyacinth, the issues specific to that article are to be discussed there, not here. This is a general discussion. And two of us have been working on the article, or at least removing unsuitable material.   Montanabw (talk)  06:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

As has been explained to me, Wikipedia relies on written citations and policies. For instance, WP:PSTS. To insist that there is an issue with an article that can't be written down is thus unreliable, and should be avoided. To insist that article material should be removed, but be unable to write down a reason, is thus unreliable and should be avoided. To insist that there are large issues that constantly arise on Wikipedia regarding sacredness and holiness (and confidentiality), but that no attempt be made to deal with these issues seems contradictory. I apologize for causing you all so much work by my additions of cited material to eagle-bone whistle and my attempts to follow your advice. Hyacinth (talk) 22:21, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Where I sometimes see problems arising is when written sources are inadequate relative to oral sources and misrepresent the reality (for example when evens are descibed in 19th century sources written by racist colonialists and noone else has written about it), or when there is a reason to believe that the proprietors of some indigenous knowledge would rather not have that represented on wikipedia. In such cases it is hard to exclude the material, unless one can convince other editors that the sources are unreliable and should be excluded. This is often hard if there isnt another source contradicting the first one. This is sometimes a problem I think, but not one that can be systematically solved under current policies. If you have ideas for improving policies in that regard it is possible to make suggestions for changes at the discussion pages of those policies.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 06:44, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh, we've won that battle of the 19th-century-crap-source here any number of times. In this case, there is also an overwhelming consensus to show respect on this issue by keeping the article general in tone, and only a single, tendentious editor is not dropping the stick.   Montanabw (talk)  05:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject Women in Red
Women in Red will be hosting a month-long virtual editathon on indigenous women in August to coincide with Indigenous People's Day. We welcome participation from anyone who wants to improve or help create articles. If anyone is interested in adding curated names to the potential list of new articles, the link is here WikiProject Women in Red/Indigenous Women. Just add a red link and sources which confirm notability. An invitation to sign up for the event will be forthcoming. SusunW (talk) 17:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Indigenous women & Polar women editathons
(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 21:08, 24 July 2016 (UTC) via MassMessage

Talk:John Two-Hawks
Thoughts? Tangentially related to how non-Native musicians who play Native-style instruments or in Native genres get categorized and written about on WP. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 22:51, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * More of the usual... sigh. Plastic shamans and culture vultures. I commented there.  Montanabw (talk)  04:34, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Paula Underwood
Somehow this non-Native's changing backstory went unnoticed as she morphed from the white descendant of settler colonists in the Midwest to an Oneida clan mother, even being included on some Native authors lists. She wrote lots of fiction about her fictional "Indian Chief" ancestor, when her actual ancestors were Indian-killers. Looks like we might have another Education of Little Tree situation. Though, granted, without the drama of the KKK and the segregationist speechwriting, so at least there's that. *smh* - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:46, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Pee Dee people
Could anyone look over Pee Dee people? A user who apparently belongs to the Beaver Creek Indian Tribe is deleting cited information. Thanks, Yuchitown (talk) 03:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * At this second, almost all the material except one paragraph is cited by secondary published sourced, but more eyes are always welcome, since this will assuredly change. Yuchitown (talk) 19:29, 12 August 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Most tenacious editor ever. On a daily basis this editor continues to delete cited information (for instance, the fact that Pedees owned African-American slaves). The thing is, there is barely any recorded, historical information about Pedees from which to choose. If anyone else could look at this article occasionally, that would be fantastic. Although this editor keeps deleting material, Wikipedia is supposed to be be uncensored. Yuchitown (talk) 16:47, 15 August 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown


 * I initially reverted the edit-warrior, but have self-reverted in case administrative action is called for. I don't have time to get up to speed on the entire situation right now, but am certainly open to suggestions. They look to me to be a SPA here to advance the agenda of heritage groups that want to misrepresent themselves as recognized tribes. Nothing new; probably one of the IPs or rednames we've dealt with before has made another account. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 19:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


 * P.S. Final warning given to the edit-warring SPA. Will block if behaviour resumes. Semi-ed Pee Dee and Beaver Creek (Extended Confirmed req.). Someone else should do Extended Confirmed on Echota if that becomes a problem (best if it's someone other than me as I've edited it in the past and reverted the SPA once under this current account of theirs; I assume I've probably reverted them extensively in the past, as well). - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 20:20, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sa la k'adita. Thanks, it didn't seem correct that whomever is the most persistent reverter prevails, which it probably why I stuck with it. Yuchitown (talk) 22:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Could use more eyes on Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama. Looks like our edit-warrior has no interest in going for consensus. If it was on an article I hadn't edited I'd block them now per WP:SPA and WP:NOTHERE. But will need another admin on this one. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:57, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

WikiCon North America
Hi gang, I'm pinging everyone here because October 11, 2016 is Indigenous Peoples' Day and occurs during WikiCon North America, set to be held in San Diego. We are looking at using some of Monday to do programming specific to Indigenous people. I'm on the committee, and thought I'd post here for folks to provide any guidelines or advice to the organizers, and particularly if they have any suggestions for presenters who are relatively close to San Diego or have any general do's or don'ts. Montanabw (talk) 03:56, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Spider Grandmother
An IP is I think trying to improve the article but the sources are all over the place. The latest is this - I don't think we should be using such sources. Better than the last perhaps which was just woowoo, but still.... Thanks. Doug Weller talk 20:42, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Canadian Indian residential school system page
Hello, everyone. I invite you to visit the Canadian Indian residential school system's Talk page where I have started a discussion about developing the page to increase its current C-Class rating to Good article status. Suggestions for improvement, editing assistance and general feedback are all very much welcome. --Dnllnd (talk) 13:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Reassessment of page
Hi, again. After some extensive editing, I'm hoping that the page can be reassessed. I've added it to the B-class assessment request list, but I can't tell if that's still being used based on the dates of the other entries..? Is there a more appropriate place to request that the page be reviewed? Thank you! --Dnllnd (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Standing Rock/Dakota Access pipeline issue
Wonder if the Bakken pipeline section on the protests should be expanded. Could also possibly add material to Standing_Rock_Indian_Reservation and watchlist ReZpect our Water. Montanabw (talk) 09:35, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't know about this one
I tossed the prod tag to take some time to consider this article, but is Melvin Coombs notable enough to pass GNG? Claim is to be a powwow dancer and victim of a crime. Thoughts? Montanabw (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Sweat lodge
Could use more eyes on this. Also discussed here: Sweat Lodge WP Tag. Thanks. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 01:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Iroquois
Oh dear. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 21:03, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Gates P. Thruston
Gates P. Thruston wrote several books about the indigenous peoples of the South, especially Tennessee. Perhaps some of you can expand the article. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:40, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

For your consideration
Inspired by 's work fleshing out and sourcing the ReZpect our Water article, I wanted a suitable award to present. As a wikiproject, we can create a barnstar that we award for work on our WikiProject, or work of substantial interest to members of our WikiProject. It's been awhile since I've designed one of these, but here's an initial effort:


 * LOL! So long as we have a Nixon in China situation (native person created the frybread barnstar!) I'm good!    Montanabw (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

For it to be added to the page as a project barnstar, we'd have to have at least a few more people say they'd like us to have a project barnstar. It doesn't even have to be this one. I asked a few friends for ideas and feedback, too. This is what we came up with. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 21:08, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Smithsonian article
Doesn't look like they reached out to anyone here to write this article, "Wikipedia Wants You to Improve Its Coverage of Indigenous Peoples". Actually, I think WIkipedia has excellent coverage of Native peoples and topics compared to the rest of the web. I use reference material about Native peoples from Wikipedia on a daily basis. But perhaps someone can comment on the article and steer them here to this WikiProject? (Or is that a bad idea?) Yuchitown (talk) 16:34, 1 October 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown


 * I am on the committee for the conference, actually, but I am not sure who initiated the article... but please do see the activities for Monday, October 10 at the wikiconference: https://wikiconference.org/wiki/2016/Schedule .  I guess my take is that "excellent compared to the rest of the web" is ... sad but true.     Montanabw (talk) 23:55, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Please also see the original article, http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/09/26/wikipedia-wants-improved-content-indigenous-peoples-needs-your-help-165905 It's a little clearer. The Smithsonian apparently did a revision based upon the original. (And so, OK, let's do the article on Esther Belin then...)    Montanabw (talk) 00:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I know Esther; I like and admire her very much, but is she truly notable by Wikipedia standards? Yuchitown (talk) 02:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

As to whether or not it's good to direct ICT readers here... I don't know. I routinely direct Natives and clued-in supporters here. ICT gets a ton of comments, both on their site and on their FB page, from non-Natives who tend to be pretty clueless, though. I don't know to what extent that indicates their readership or those who are motivated to log in and post. They also get trolled a lot by racists. I'm on the fence about advertising the Wikiproject there. Oh, I did claim the shortcut WP:NDN for us. ;) - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 21:13, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Harry Behn
A number of the claims here really strain credulity and need checking/sourcing. I think we have a case here of some tall tales used to sell screenplays. I came across this one due to. Maybe those guys are Blackfoot, but due to his work in the film industry, and some easily-spotted inaccuracies in his stories and photos, I see red flags that these might have been staged with actors. Or, in the cases where these folks look and maybe were Blackfoot, that these photos do not actually portray what they're being represented as. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 00:56, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Looking a bit deeper, it turns out the sole source for the claims is an unpublished memoir by a family member. This is how it is cited in the references section: "Rememberings, by Alice Lawrence Behn Goebel, edited by Pamela Behn Adam. Published privately, 1983[?]." 'Privately Published' family memoir usually means, 'Xeroxed a few copies for family and friends.' I'm going to cut all of it. Here's the link to the version with it all before the cuts. Probably the IP and account who added it will revert so you'll get a chance to see it even without the diff:. I am shocked by the stuff people will believe. "I lived with the Indians I met in the park for a whole month. The whole tribe adopted me, made me their chief, and named me 'Big Wolf Medicine.'" *smh* - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 02:07, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Job posting for Strengthening Indigenous-Language Wikipedias in Latin America project grant
Hi all, I thought this position providing support to the Strengthening Indigenous-Language Wikipedias project might be of interest to some: https://rising.globalvoices.org/lenguas/2016/10/26/global-voices-busca-investigadora-principal-para-estudio-sobre-wikipedia-en-lenguas-indigenas/ Applications are due Friday November 4, 2016. -Thepwnco (talk) 12:08, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Utqiaġvik, Alaska
This article was moved from Barrow, Alaska while a move discussion was ongoing with no consensus achieved, apparently solely based on this or similar stories, without regard for WP:COMMONNAME or the fact that we're still a ways off from it being official. More discussion is welcome. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:29, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Clean-up required for Native American Times
Hello. Could someone here please clean up Native American Times by adding in-line references? The website appears to be active. I am not an expert on this topic, so I'd rather you did it. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:39, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

James Arthur Ray
Could use more eyes. CNN will be airing a documentary on Ray tomorrow night; I think it's on Ray's efforts to re-launch his career. This has brought some renewed interest in the article, notably the material related to his criminal convictions (negligent homicide in the three new age sweat deaths, and another death at a previous seminar). - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:08, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 18:01, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Hózhǫ́
The Navajo term (and versions of the same word with different diacritics) currently redirect to Beauty. They have been nominated for at Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 December 7, your input to the linked discussion is invited. Comments left here will probably not be seen. Thryduulf (talk) 22:18, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Heads up
Student project tag up here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APlains_Indians&type=revision&diff=752382798&oldid=697016553   Montanabw (talk) 07:04, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Peer review of Canadian Indian residential school system
Hello, I have submitted the Canadian Indian residential school system page for peer review following revisions, which I previously posted about, over the past 6 months. My hope is to have the page upgraded to GA or FA status and I welcome your thoughts on improving it with that aim in mind. --Dnllnd (talk) 19:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Need Seneca or related help
Harriet Maxwell Converse. There were tons of copyvios I had to cut. The sources seem to be all non-Native, and the degree of misinformation in some cases makes me think no fact-checking was ever done (including by PBS). Cutting the page-long copyvios took care of some of the problems, but not all. Need some Seneca or related eyes on this. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 00:03, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Indigenous Canadian main articles
We are going to have to watch over our Indigenous Canadian main articles .....going to get a wave of student edits....pls see Wiki Ed/University of Windsor/Social Issues in Sport Management (Winter 2017).--Moxy (talk) 20:56, 5 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe generate a list of ones we need to watch here?  Montanabw (talk) 07:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Indian Peace Medal
Could use more eyes. Student editing season. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 03:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Indigenous Wikipedia edit-a-thon
Hosting a edit session in Vancouver in June any editors available to help out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gebrelu (talk • contribs) 17:48, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

New Page Creation: Aboriginal Literature in Canada
Hey everyone! My teammates and I are in the process of creating a new Wikipedia article entitled "Aboriginal Literature in Canada". We plan to focus on notable authors and award winning texts. We may also include the literary history of Aboriginal literature. Any feedback, suggestions, and/or advice would be much appreciated.

Our group sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ayayukichi83/sandbox

Thank you!

Angelocasiano (talk) 05:15, 7 March 2017 (UTC)angelocasiano


 * I'd like to note that this user's concurrent post of the same information at WP:CANTALK has sparked some discussion about the fact that while indigenous is now fairly clearly the preferred adjective for the groups covered by this project, we still have a considerable number of Canadian-related articles which are still (sometimes even in their page titles) using the increasingly deprecated older term aboriginal. Accordingly, we'd like to initiate a project of getting the affected articles switched over to indigenous instead, if possible — does anybody have any advice on how to go about it? Bearcat (talk) 22:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The article is now live. Instead of the previously mentioned, "Aboriginal Literature in Canada," we decided to go with "Indigenous Literature in Canada" to support the current shift in terminology. We're welcoming any feedback, advice, or source recommendations. Thanks in advance! You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indigenous_Literatures_in_Canada&diff=771495150&oldid=771494850 Angelocasiano (talk) 21:40, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Genocide of indigenous peoples
And some connected pages and talk could use eyes/input. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 19:24, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation
This article has long suffered from a lack of Native eyes. It's becoming an issue again as links to Native perspectives and longstanding sources are being removed. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 00:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)


 * We need more editors watching these articles, you may have noticed that the Pow wow article was getting hit by the like-minded.  Montanabw (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Notable Native woman Michèle Audette up for deletion
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but an article on a notable Native American (Canadian First Nations) woman activist and politician Michele Audette is up for deletion HERE. If you like please contribute to the comments. Netherzone (talk) 02:12, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Major cleanup needed
Category:American people of Native American descent. Current description partially contradicts the category name: "This category page lists notable citizens of the United States who self-identify as being of Native American ethnic descent but do not belong to a Native American tribe."

While it *can* cover those who have known heritage but are not eligible for enrollment, people look to have been adding anyone who makes a claim, even if they have no proof, even if they never name a tribe. With the tribe sub-cats I encounter, I have been deleting those with no details of their claims. I'm going to tweak the descriptor, but I also think those who simply self-identify with vague blood myths should be removed, or we need to change the name of the category to indicate it is solely self-identification. But if we do that, should there be a category for unenrolled descendants at all? Thoughts? - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 01:46, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm cool if you tweak the descriptor. Or, maybe rename as "People who self-identify as of Native American descent" and then create two categories, one for people who are documented as Native American (by either tribal enrollment or historic record) and a separate category for people documented to be descendants of the same?  I know this "who is an Indian" question seems to come up again and again -- would be nice to have categories that reflect a respectful approach to identify "legal" Indians, documentable people of Native heritage and... the "my great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" stuff.  Maybe create a category for "People granted honorary tribal citizenship" and such.  We could really go down a rabbit hold with this... I'd also like to avoid too many trips to CfD as that can be a dramafest.  Unavoidable where we have a cat rename that has hundreds of articles and too many to move manually.   Montanabw (talk) 03:31, 9 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry that I missed this earlier post, but the "of descent" categories serve a very useful purpose of demonstrating how widespread and outlandish many claims of being "part Native American" are, especially among celebrities. I agree with Montanabw that you could ramp up the descriptions to let people know that these are claims, and "people who self-identify" is the polite way of saying "people who claim" (I've noticed when I interject "So-and-so claims such-and-such descent," folks get angry and change it.


 * Articles like List of people of self-identified Cherokee ancestry and List of unrecognized tribes in the United States and categories like Category:American people of Cherokee descent. I link to them speak volumes them in emails and online discussions all the time. They show trends in claiming Cherokee or other Native American descent that are pretty illuminating (like claiming the geographically and culturally unlikely "Cherokee-Blackfoot" combo. I consider it a given that almost everyone in the "of descent" categories are actually Native. If you purge them, you would spend all your time undoing other folks's additions and having to remove Cher on a weekly basis. Plus, unless you are a superhuman genealogist, it would be impossible to determine who is an actual unenrolled tribal descent and that would be original research anyway (Wish New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans had a more professional website instead of a 1990s-style forum). Yuchitown (talk) 15:07, 9 May 2017 (UTC)Yuchitown

Sorry I don't have more time to weigh in and work on this stuff right now. Here's another article that's a mess: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians, as are quite a few on the "State-Recognized" list. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 01:14, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

AND, Hoʻoponopono‎ is in similar straits as Huna (New Age) was before it was cleaned up and renamed. I removed Long as a source and tweaked the lede, but it needs a lot more. See talk. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:18, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Page moves
Pls see here e.g Blackfoot language to Siksiká...... Siksiká is not something English keyboards can type....nor the common name. --Moxy (talk) 03:49, 12 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Restored original titles and requested move protection. These were undiscussed.   Montanabw (talk) 09:03, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Shania Twain
The article Shania Twain is currently marked as being within the scope of this project. Twain's adoptive father was Ojibwe - this is her only connection to Native American topics. other than this is not clear that she has any sustained relation to Ojibwe culture or communities. She also claims her biological father was part Cree, but his family denies this. Is this a significant enough relation to merit inclusion in the article? The article on Twain is now by far the most viewed article within WP:Indigenous peoples of NA.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 06:20, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a real good question. The "my great-great grandmother was a Cherokee Princess" thing is kind of an ongoing, slow-moving annoyance.  But,  in her case, we have her clear self-identification and legal documentation --  being adopted made her eligible to be legally recognized as an Ojibwe member.  The source you were looking at states, "Shania currently holds a status card and is on the official band membership list of the Temagami First Nation."  Given that being a tribal member is a political and legal status, not a racial identifier, (though most tribes use blood quantum and other race-based measurements as part of their assessment criteria) I'd say in her case, yes.  But others may feel differently  Montanabw (talk) 07:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, I hadn't realized that she was enrolled. That makes sense then. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:06, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Sherman Indian School
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Indian_High_School

This page was obviously written by a white person and contains no information about the brutal atrocities that Indians endured here for many decades. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:2580:56A0:B1AE:A5EF:B629:3213 (talk) 17:29, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Article title format
Hi

There's a discussion at Talk:List of place names in New England of aboriginal origin that falls within the scope of this WIkiProject, and with which I would appreciate some help. TIA. Andrewa (talk) 02:01, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Wrong infoboxes
Members of this project may want to watchlist Iron Confederacy and Blackfoot Confederacy. Appears to be someone who thinks these need "former country" infobox, as opposed to the "Organization" infobox, which also isn't great. But given that the nation-state is a European construct, and these groups were not "countries" as understood by the white world in the same period, it's important to not be misleading. Montanabw (talk) 21:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

NPOV dispute
Seeking input/assistance: WP:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard - WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:05, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Slavery among the indigenous peoples of the Americas
Slavery among the indigenous peoples of the Americas needs its lead to be rewritten, and the range of articles on this topic should be better organized and completed. Please come help.--Carwil (talk) 05:27, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Sacred bundle - any plan for extending the stub?
Hi

From time to time, I will like to contribute to "Sacred bundle", but I wonder if there is any strategy for extending the stub?

Do we give a limited number of examples of sacred bundles under the heading "Overview", so we follow the line already started with the text about Black Elk? (A complete list is almost impossible, considering the endless number of bundles). Alternatively, do we do like the article about "Winter counts", so we simply give the tribe and the name of a specific sacred bundle (e.g. Cheyenne tribe - the Sacred Arrows) and then make a link to a separate article about these arrows? How about the terms? Will it be a good idea to let a "sacred bundle" be a tribal or a clan bundle, where either a myth or an oral tradition explains the origin of it? Then, to set it apart, we can call a personal bundle shown in a vision a "medicine bundle"? How do we divide the Americas geographically? Northern Great Plains, Southern Plains, Pacific Coast ... or what?Naawada2016 (talk) 08:20, 17 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Accurate details of ceremonial items like the contents of sacred bundles and their uses in ceremonies are kept private. If you are Native and have Elders, please talk to them about this. What details have been published in sources that would be considered WP:RS for use on Wikipedia are usually inaccurate due to having been written by cultural outsiders who considered themselves experts, but who were not, and are not, considered experts by the cultures in question. In writing about Indigenous cultural and intellectual property, for a source to be RS, it needs to come from within the culture. Those who have the cultural standing to be bundlekeepers for a society are not going to violate that sacred trust and publish about these matters. The fact that some exploitation of vulnerable people has happened doesn't mean we should continue that exploition. A mention that these societies exist can be made in the articles about the cultures. This article would be more appropriately deleted than expanded. Not everything belongs on Wikipedia. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 15:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Looking over the history, we had to rescue that page from an awful thing where someone thought prayer ties were bundles. Yeah. Maybe if it is kept brief and just links to the relevant tribal articles (Cheynne, Kiowa, Crow, Lakota) with no inappropriate details it can stay, basically as an expanded disambig. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 15:28, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Category collision
I'm not 100 percent sure that Category:Native Americans by state was intended to collect biographical articles. Nonetheless, it appears that it's serving that purpose to some limited extent, while Category:Native American people by state in the United States exists separately elsewhere in the tree, collecting the same sort of articles and subcategories. The latter appears to be an unfinished work in progress by a new user from quite a few months ago, so I dunno what the intent was there. If the latter wasn't a mistake, then I figure it should be easy enough to clean up, but I thought I would ask first. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 17:31, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

July, 2017
I have some other mythological creatures I would like to see added, however I lack the information to create pages for them. Most of them I know by name only, and details difficult to come by. But I was hoping someone else might be able to add to the following so pages can be made--

--Deriving from the Seneca via the publication "Handbook of the Seneca Language." Pronuncations may be off. The book uses an old form of the written language & I tried to adapt, with questionable success.

Jaenasko:wa:h (Blue Lizard), Jiske:h (some sort of skeleton, or ghost. Possibly an Iroquois adaption of the Algonquin Bagaag.), Kahkako:wa:h (Giant Raven), kana'kwe:s (Big Breast), Tewathyawa:e's (Exploding Wren), Thayatka:i' (unknown meaning or origin), O'nowatka' (Corn Bug. I hope I'm wrong in my assumption that this is a tick, because that's the image I'm getting from the name.), hotka' (warlock/ male witch), kotka' (witch), kahaih (will-o-the-wisp, or swamp lights, which is said to be a demonstration of some sort of magical transformation taking place.) & A:i' (some kind of flying snake). I also don't know if the "Dry Finger" entity has a page, or not.

--Deriving from Lakota via "Lakota Dictionary (the blue 2002 edition).

M'm'la (some sort of female moth-like entity. The dictionary says the meaning has been lost, although it's very similar to "kimimila," the Lakota word for moth or butterfly. I'm assuming moth as night-time is also brought up in relation to it.), Tabubu (The word seems to mean monster in general, but Bigfoot is brought up alongside it & it's the only time I've ever seen anything related to that creature in the language.) & Siyoko (a boogeyman type entity who comes for children. I believe the name means something along the lines of "Between the Toes.")

--There is also Shunka Warak'in coming from Dhegihan Sioux, like the Osage, which is being toted as some sort of Cryptid. There is a page with a woefully mistranslated name. The best I can assume in meaning is "Burdensome Dog," from Lakota, but that's just a guess. There are about a million different words in Lakotaiapi for Coyote, Wolf & Horse. No word in the Lakota Dictionary matches this word in meaning. I'd assumed that, if this had been a real creature, it may have been a Coywolf, which was probably a lot rarer before modern times.Bobbotronica (talk) 18:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I'm almost positive now that "Blue Lizard" is probably a variation of River Wolf. It's difficult because I'm taking names that I know from this short Seneca source & translating it through a more extensive Cayuga one. However, The only words for lizards that I can find pertain to snakes (looking up reptile actually redirects you to snake in the Cayuga Dictionary.) & only one, Garter Snake, starts with a "J." the Ko:wa:h part, whether that's correct or not, is obviously "Great." Between that and the folk name "Blue Lizard," as in "Blue Panther," I'd have to say it's supposed to be a River Wolf. I did find a page recently claiming that most of the Mingo Seneca who split off from the others were descended from Algonquin, Iroquoian & Siouan refugees from the Beaver Wars whom the Iroquois Confederacy had adopted. Plus, I'm pretty sure physical representations of River Wolf have been found on the other side of Ohio, in Mascouten territory.

I'm also now aware that the Cayuga dictionary brings up Jisge: as just being a ghost in general & not counted as anything of particular importance, but that still doesn't explain why skeleton is brought up in the Seneca handbook, or why it's counted as a "legendary figure" there. As far as Thayatka:i, I think it's either a longer name for the flying snake monster, or it translates as "Wolf full of evil." From that, I figure there are a couple of mythological creatures from neighbors that might be a good fit. But, seriously, are there any sites or books that bring up any of these things in better detail so we can know for sure? I know the Wendigo page didn't have a very good description for the longest time, when there was an Ojibwe book that explained it perfectly since the 90s. Bobbotronica (talk) 15:13, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Another AfD
Native Art Department International. I'm leaning "delete" on this one, actually, but the promoter of the article is quick to accuse the AfD nominator of bias and I sincerely do not think that's the issue, I think the article is on a topic of possibly dubious notability. Montanabw (talk) 06:13, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Conferederate template
This template just was added to several tribes' pages: . It's not well researched (for example, "Choctow") and at least the Muscogee Creeks traditionalists fought for the Union against the Confederacy. Plus it's only a 4-year blip in the tribes' multicentury histories. Unfortunately, the main people who pay attention to Civil War history are pro-Confederacy and overstate its important to other groups. The Osage Nation declared war on Japan prior to the US in WWII, but the Osage Nation wouldn't be included on a list of WWII Allies. Ahalenia (talk) 16:52, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Ahalenia

Indian reservations
Does Guatemala, Honduras, French Guiana, Suriname, El Salvador has Indian reservations like this?: Lands inhabited by indigenous peoples--Kaiyr (talk) 17:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedian in Residence at the University of Pittsburgh
Your support is solicited for the Project Grant that can be seen here. Part of the grant-making process requires notification of those who would like to support this project. I am the potential grantee and believe that this position will make a significant contribution to many projects. Little to no information now exits on those Indigenous Peoples in the Western Pennsylvania region. Other projects will benefit from the Wikimedia grant. Some of these are WikiProject Ethnic groups, WikiProject Women in Red, WikiProject Pennsylvania, WikiProject United States History, WikiProject Military history/American Revolutionary War task force, WikiProject Pittsburgh, and WikiProject African diaspora. Some of these WikiProjects are currently semi-active and would benefit from more contributions from those in the Western Pennsylvania region and the University of Pittsburgh. The University of Pittsburgh has significant archival and historical content related to gaps to these WikProjects. Thank you for your consideration.
 * Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐   ✉  23:33, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Feedback needed on project proposal: Investigating the Impact of Implicit Bias on Wikipedia
Hi Friends! Here is the current draft of my project proposal: Investigating the Impact of Implicit Bias on Wikipedia. I value your input and would greatly appreciate your feedback. Please share it on the project proposal discussion page. Thank you in advance! Best, Jackiekoerner (talk) 04:26, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Two-spirit
Need more eyes. Page has been moved, and now new editors want to make substantial changes, including to basic definition. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 17:17, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Missing and murdered Indigenous women
And related articles could use more eyes / input. Especially with the inquiries going on. Thanks. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 17:36, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

RFC at Talk:Elizabeth Warren‎
Talk:Elizabeth Warren‎ Right now there is only a very brief mention of her claims in the section covering her initial, 2012 Senate run. Some editors want to update and expand, others do not. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 19:39, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This again? Yuchitown (talk) 16:37, 4 December 2017 (UTC)Yuchitown

Squaw
Could use more eyes. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 19:36, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Dreamcatcher
Needs eyes. Again. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:59, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

And now Vision quest - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 19:28, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Native American Education Research and Cultural Center
Hello. Could someone please create an article about the Native American Education Research and Cultural Center at the University of Wyoming? See this and this for example. Please ping me when you create it. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:36, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Hackensack people
Could someone have a look at Hackensack people? Specifically the section "Lenape/Delaware Indians", the sentence "As for the MUNSEE Lenape they lived in upstate NY in fact so far up they had a war with the Iroquois it is highly unlikely they would head East toward the white man and N.J. in fact it is documented they left for Canada to escape the white man a small group heading the opposite way would not have survived the white man". This is unreferenced and needs some attention from an expert I think. Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 20:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Ancient Beringian
There's a merge discussion at Talk:Ancient Beringian about a merger with other articles. There's also a content dispute that could use more input. Doug Weller talk 12:57, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

A nice portrait of a clean-shaven male
Per this, I would love to see a portrait of a clean-shaven indigenous male of North America in the article. Any thoughts on a particular image? And of course, it doesn't need to be an image currently at Commons. If you are reading this and are, or are sitting next to, a clean-shaven indigenous male of North America, please get out your camera. Best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:23, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * How about Evan Adams, or Graham Greene (actor)?  Montanabw (talk) 01:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Montanabw!! Greene is a good choice. I'll suggest it. Cheers. And sorry about sending you to the horse talk. That doesn't look like much fun. I'm grateful, though, for your involvement. I was at my wit's end. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:40, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Who was the father of Hook Nose?
Please see Talk:Hook Nose. --CiaPan (talk) 11:15, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata project
I've created: Wikidata Project Indigenous Peoples of North America. Please consider joining and adding to the discussion. There's lots of work to be done regarding data structures that can enhance the visibility of Indigenous peoples and help with work on Wikipedia.--Smallison (talk) 12:06, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Indigenize Wikipedia
Hello WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America,

The Yukon Arts Centre in Whitehorse Yukon will be hosting a Wikithon event, April 28th 2018, called Indigenize Wikipedia.

Valerie Salez is spear heading a project titled Conversations. This New Chapter project centres around activating a document held in the archives of the Trondek Hwechin Heritage Department (The Han Gwich’in Peoples Government in Dawson City, Yukon). The document contains the minutes of an impromptu meeting between Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau and five Yukon First Nations leaders in August of 1977, regarding the then-approved Mackenzie Pipeline. The minutes of this meeting clearly reveal two opposing cultures and two opposing ways of understanding economic, social and cultural development, with the land and its inhabitants as the focus. While researching events and people connected to this document, Salez noticed there was a lack of information available. Online searches have become a valuable first step to researching any topic. Wikipedia gained its name to fame as a peer sourced online encyclopedia. However, there is little to no information regarding key Yukon First Nations people. Let us indigenize Wikipedia. The goal is to have Yukoners create and/or add to wiki pages that highlight Yukon First Nations leaders, policy makers, politicians, cultural workers, artists/crafters, hunters, gatherers, community contributors, aunties, uncles, grandparents. This can be anyone alive or passed. We are proposing a drop-in style event to allow people to contribute to Wikipedia. We are inviting people from the public and from organizations to contribute to writing, editing, or posting to Wikipedia about Yukon First Nations people. If this interests you, I would be excited to hear your thoughts about this. Also, please pass this along if you know of anyone who would be interested! Also, if you have any tips, tricks, questions or concerns, I would love to hear them as well. Thank you and all of the best! Heathervon (talk) 23:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

University of New Mexico looking to sponsor a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar
Of possible interest to WikiProject members:

The University of New Mexico (UNM) is looking to sponsor a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar.

The University of New Mexico Libraries would like to work with a Wikipedian to explore themes related to following interdisciplinary areas:
 * Intersections of science, design, art, and architecture in New Mexico
 * Energy, water, and environmental policy in the Southwest and Latin America
 * Healing and foodways in the high desert

The Visiting Scholars program connects Wikipedians with educational institutions based on shared interest in a topic. Any editor in good standing is welcome to apply. Professional experience is not a requirement. For more information, as well as the application, see the University of New Mexico’s Visiting Scholars page. If you have questions, feel free to reach out on my talk page. Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 23:19, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Eyes needed at Petosegay
A new user], who claims to be a descendant of [[Petosegay, claims that the sentence Of his ten children, his son Ignatius Petoskey later became a chieftain and head of the Bear River Ottawas. is incorrect because there was no son with this name. There is a source (available here) that backs the sentence but judging from googling the name, most other sources use the names Petosegay and Ignatius Petoskey for the same person. I left a message at User talk:Warren D. Petoskey asking for a source for their claim but maybe someone with more expertise could take a look at it and sort it out? Regards SoWhy 09:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Mougoulacha
I've added a brief article about a Southern Louisiana tribe. Could someone from this project review it and maybe add it to your WikiProject? DavidDelaune (talk) 03:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Hacking attempts?
Have any project members had attempts made on their accounts? There seems to have been a nearly site-wide attempt to compromise user accounts over the last day or so. So far no attempts that I've heard of have been successful, though two of us had attempts made. Let me know if you've gotten the "attempted unauthorized access" notice, or if your account has been compromised. We're trying to spot any patterns. - Corb</b><b style="color: #145073;">ie</b><b style="color: #006E0D">V</b>  ☊ ☼ 22:23, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I received the "There have been multiple failed attempts to log in to your account from a new device" warning. Have never seen anything like that before. Yuchitown (talk) 03:58, 5 May 2018 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Yeah, that's the notification we got, too. So that makes only three of us on this project, AFAIK. No project seems more targeted than any other so far. It's not just WP getting hit, either. More talk about this at the village pump and the admin boards. - <b style="color:#44018F;">Co</b><b style="color: #003878;">rb</b><b style="color: #145073;">ie</b><b style="color: #006E0D">V</b>  ☊ ☼ 23:30, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Me too. One attempt. Smmurphy(Talk) 23:45, 5 May 2018 (UTC)