User talk:Choess/Archive4

Linden, PA PRR bridge question
Hi Choess, I was wondering if you knew the date of original construction of the PRR railroad bridge crossing the West Branch Susquehanna River at the village of Linden in Lycoming County? The reason I am asking is that I am working on Susquehanna Boom article and have looked at the 1938 PennPilot images to see the positions of the boom cribs. It looks as if the Main Boom cribs originally went beyond the bridge, perhaps meaning that the bridge was constructed after the Boom? It also seems that the bridge itself was being reconstructed in 1938 as you can see old tracks leading to it, slightly west of the bridge (and the bridge itself looks too thin in the pictures). The main boom was built in 1851 and expanded several times, so the cribs going to and past the bridge are probably later than 1851. The map is at Image:Susquehanna Boom Map Split.PNG (and any comments on it would also be welcome). Finally, I am sorry to see you aren't working on nobility articles any more - I always liked the talk page comments on them here. Hope all is well with you, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 22:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Choess, I reread Taber very carefully and found that the main boom was completed to the Linden bridge by adding 15 cribs in 1873, so 1858 or 1859 for the bridge was definitely before that. Actually knowing it was 15 cribs, I think that you can see the last section added in the PennPilot photos (and the map). As always, I appreciate the help and information very much, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Tidying up after another Burkem sock
See User_talk:BrownHairedGirl. Do you think that you might be able to help? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Lord Lieutenants
See reply at User talk:BrownHairedGirl. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The speedy renaming has been challenged: see Categories for discussion/Speedy. If you have references to support the change, please can you contribute to that discussion? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Now at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 August 8, with some interesting comments. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:11, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I imagine the change from 'Lds Lt' to 'Ld-Lts' was discussed in smoke-filled rooms for many months before they decided on this elegant rationalisation! FYI the official list of court, precedence, honours etc is published in the [www.gazettes-online.co.uk London Gazette]. I came across the info on the change to Royal precedence by looking at Burke's peerage & Debretts. None are terribly easy to navigate though! Can be quite interesting for military & biographical research though. Ephebi 21:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Dumfries lieutenancy
See Talk:Lord_Lieutenant of Dumfries. Can you help? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Anstruther Baronetcies
Is 1798 extant or not? -- Kittybrewster  (talk) 22:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * He answers mine :) - Kittybrewster  (talk) 08:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If I may be so bold, have you had as response to your query? -- !! ?? 21:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello
I see that we have both recently posted on BHG's Talk page, and I'd encourage you (as politely as possible!) to read my contribution which is immediately below your own. Frankly, I think that IF the present Vintagekits block holds, everything will calm down rapidly. Although you probably find it astonishing to believe, it really is a case of one editor acting as a loose cannon.--Major Bonkers (talk) 10:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Nobility/notability
Thanks for your message. I can't be bothered finding the exact diff where I said this many months ago, it was probably about February so it's too much effort, but I did say it back then as well. My whole feelings about articles is that they should be encyclopedic, and that nobody should be considered automatically notable. I'll even pick a "neutral" subject matter for a good example. Anyone that competes in the Olympics is automatically considered notable, so how does this sound for an article?

John Doe competed in the long jump for the United States of America at the 1904 Summer Olympics, and finished fourth.

If nothing about John Doe is known apart from this, is there really any point having an article? I want to see long articles with prose that tell you about the subject, not directory entries. That was my problem with so many articles about titled people, it was a case of "they were born, married x, had children, and died". I just don't consider that encylopedic. If that's the entire information that's available about them, there may be a place for it but I don't think an individual article is the best place, and from what I've seen of your work on merging various Baronet articles I think you agree with me on that point at least. I'm only back for the ArbCom, which probably doesn't look like it's going to happen which is a shame, as there are many wider issues that need to be looked at not just VK's behaviour. One Night In Hackney 303  02:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom case
SqueakBox has filed Request for arbitration in which you may be interested. - Kittybrewster  (talk) 02:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Peerage list templates
Hiya – you've changed all the links to lead to individuals' pages. That's fine, except that all those you've changed are redlinked, i.e. they don't exist – and if they don't currently exist, it'll be because they fail notability, so they're not likely to come into being... DBD 22:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

DYK

 * Hi Choess, congrats (and I knew it was your article when I saw it on the Main Page). Not sure if this photo would work in the article or not: Image:Canal Monument in Lock Haven Pennsylvania.JPG. I took it last summer and it is near the river and courthouse downtown in Lock Haven. Hope all is well with you, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Henry Bertie‎
Hey there. While on new page patrol, I saw you create the disambig page, but both wikilinks are red. Do you intend to shorly create both pages? &mdash; Coren (talk) 03:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. It's just that, as a rule, one should not create disambig pages pointing nowhere (or to only a single article).  Think you could spend a few minutes and write a short stub for both?  :-)  I'd offer to help, but my knowledge of that area is roughly epsilon.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 03:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * a lot. &mdash; Coren (talk) 03:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

SBS membership renewal request—Project in great need of contributors
The summer has passed (unless you live in the Southern Hemisphere), and for most people holidays are over. Therefore, it is time for work again. Not that work ever stops in Wikipedia, but I believe we can at last get over the stage when slow progress can be taken for granted. Like yourself, most members of WikiProject Succession Box Standardization have been away during most of the summer (and some of you have been away for much longer); this lack of contributors has almost led SBS activity to a standstill.

A couple of members have stayed, however, and things have greatly improved in the project. There is a renovated and functional main page; the talk page has organised archives and a dedicated page for archived proposals; the Guidelines page is in a very good shape and I am preparing a further set of guidelines to be proposed for adoption by the project and incorporation into the page; the Documentation page has been again updated and a potential restructuring is being planned; the Templates list is the operations centre for the ongoing removal of antiquated and redundant templates. The Offices page is the only one that has yet to be improved, but there is a proposal for that one as well. Even a new SBS navbox has been created and added to the project's pages, easing navigation between the different parts of the WikiProject, while shortcuts have been created for the three most basic pages.

And the project itself is not the only thing that has been improved; the headers system has been cleared up and rationalised during the last six months, and a new parameter system is being inserted into templates like s-new and s-vac in order to successfully adapt succession boxes to more tricky cases of succession without large, clumsy cells or redundant reasoning. S-hou has also been improved and /doc pages have been added to most of the headers' pages, as well as to many proper succession templates' ones.

Despite all these breakthroughs that have made SBS a better, more functional and more user-friendly WikiProject, things move excruciatingly slowly as far as the adoption of proposals and correction/improvement of succession boxes in the mainspace are concerned. As has been mentioned, this is due to the utter absence of all but two of its members. I completely understand that a few of them might be unwilling to resume work in SBS, and some of them might even have left Wikipedia altogether. However, we are certain that there are people intent to continue improving Wikipedia's succession boxes and helping others to do so as well. If you are one of them, please return. And even if you cannot help at the moment, but want to contribute at a later time, please let us know by renewing your membership. You can do that very easily by removing the asterisk next to your name in the member list in SBS's main page. The deadline is 31 October; members that do not renew their memberships until 23:59 of that day will be removed from the list, as these members will be assumed to have left the project for good.

SBS is a project highly capable of doing some serious work in Wikipedia. These potentials are seriously undermined by the unavailability of helpful hands. I hope you shall consider this message seriously before taking any decisions.

Thank you for your time. Waltham, The Duke of 14:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi Choess, always great to hear from you. A picture of either White Clay Creek Preserve (which has only a generic White Clay Creek picture now, not sure if it is from the park or not) or White Clay Creek State Park (which has no picture of the creek) would be great. I am working on getting Plunketts Creek (Loyalsock Creek) to FAC. I have Taber's "Ghost Lumber Towns of Central Pennsylvania" and think I can get a start article for Susquehanna and Eagles Mere Railroad out of that, but would you mind checking his Atlas to see if any lumber railroads were ever on Plunketts Creek? The book describes one going south from Masten into Cascade Township, but it is not clear if this was as far as the Plunketts Creek tributaries there or not (what with Taber's famously detailed maps and all ;-) ). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Any pic of any of the nearby state parks would be greatly appreciated, from any of the states too. Thanks Dincher 20:19, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks as always for the find - from the map I see that the logging railroad was in the watershed of Plunketts Creek via two tributaries: it crossed Engle Run twice and ran parallel to Wolf Run, so I will mention it. I also just found a Google Books Ref on anthrax in the Proctor tannery looking for a photo of the Proctor tannery online. Little did I suspect when I started the Plunketts Creek article to fill in a red link for Dincher that it would turn into an FAC with over 50 refs (I have to add a Taber's Atlas, the map you found, and the new anthrax ref still). Much appreciated, let me know how I can help on the Bellefonte Central Railroad article. Ruhrfisch  &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure what the size limit for images is on Commons, but I think it is much larger than your photo (over 10 MB, IIRC), so you may be OK with uploading it as it is. That said, I use Paint.NET which can resize photos and is free. Micrsoft Paint can also resize photos with Control - W. I also recently found free software to make panoramas: Autostitch. Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Check, please
Once again you've noticed one of my silly mistakes (which I'm ever thankful for lol). I probably did it cos IIRC I was creating articles for a few of the domestic governors all at the same time. I'll go ahead and correct though. Regards, Craigy (talk) 20:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. They seem more military to me than anything else so it might be safe to just use s-mil for now. Craigy (talk) 10:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

On the nature of categories
Hi Choess, thanks for your message. I have replied on my talk page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

American Revolutionary
Was thinking on moving all from Category:British officers in the American Revolution to Category:British military personnel of the American Revolutionary Wars. I can't see the point of this subcat as the generic subcat for conflicts is usually split by navy or army, not by rank by conflict. Also, the vast majority of people in the cat will be officers. In addition the cat is misnamed according to the Miitary history taskforce guidelines. Whats your take on this? Kernel Saunters 18:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey Choess, thanks for the help - I see that this has turned into a problem. Apologies if this causes any hassle! Kernel Saunters 19:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Dames of the Order of St John
Hi. I've restored the category because the LG doesn't say whether she was appointed a DGStJ or DJStJ (plus, as you said, it'll be handy to have in these situations). Regards, Craigy (talk) 21:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again
Hi Choess, just in case you'd not seen it, Larrys Creek with your paper railroads section will be WP:TFA tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Phew - thanks for the heads up. Daniel Case has made a bunch of edits and suggestions in the last day, so I thought I was done, but I think it has tightened up the article (even if want to put the Larrys Creek Fish and Game Club's Helipad back in  the article). Less than 24 hours to go, Ruhrfisch  &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

thx 2
Nice addition to Charles FitzCharles. I wasn't aware that he was the founding Colonel of a regiment. Nicely spotted. I guess you saw it on the DYK nom list. Well done ... anything more? Victuallers 07:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for any help on Brandywine Creek
Thanks for the offer of help. The Canby book is a good source, especially on Brandywine Village, which might be a spin-off article sooner or later. I love photos but don't take good ones myself. there are lots of potential pix already, might put more in the gallery. I'll try to put in the proper references, and might put in a table of places nearby on the National Register of Historic Places. Some related articles Jacob Broom, James M. Broom Jacob Broom (congressman) Hagley Museum and Library Eleutherian Mills Jacob Broom House - it gets a bit messy! Smallbones 14:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

SBS deadline expires
I certainly do not wish to appear pressing, but the fact that you have not renewed your membership in WikiProject Succession Box Standardization despite your continued work on succession boxes somewhat mystifies me. The deadline expires within the day, and I though that perhaps you have missed my previous message. You might want to work alone, of course, and this is entirely understandable, and even if you want to return in the future that is something you can do whenever you will. But I should surely like to remind you that you are have been a most valuable asset to our project so far. That, and the fact that most members write "per Choess" in their main SBS page statements, and your being stricken out of the list could create a minor problem there. :-) Regards, Waltham, The Duke of 11:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I answer here because it seemed to me that you have embraced the talk page philosophy that does not require the usage of watchlists—I may be wrong, but here I am anyway. (For the record, I prefer keeping conversations whole. Maybe you should answer here now; if you do, I will transfer the fragment in my page here as well, completing the "transcript".)


 * To begin with, good job with the Lords Lieutenants. I have stumbled upon many of your edits, I must say, myself occasionally working on peerage titles. I intent to spend more time on peers' succession boxes in the future, as I am pretty fond of British history and titles, and I have had little time to do that until now; I am spending much of my Wikipedia time on improving SBS, and, at times, my own user namespace. (My current pet project is to turn my userpage into something resembling a proper mainspace article. This is going to be fun.)


 * An important question, by the way, about Lords Lieutenants: about when do you think the transition from political to honourary title occurred? I know it was gradual, but we must set some kind of milestone. I initially thought of the Restoration, but then I realised that it was probably too early.


 * About the classification of the offices now. SBS's Offices page is the only part of the project that is still in (something close to) its old state. (I do not know if you have visited the other pages, but they have changed much from what you may remember; pay special attention to the Cheatsheet—more about it in the next paragraph.) It needs a drastic improvement in structure so that it can accept a good, long, thorough catalogue of offices and what we will determine as useful information about them, as well as be encouraging and helpful to unrelated to SBS editors who will want to add offices to it (an essential help, given the sheer number of titles that must be documented). I have started a draft in my Succession Box Standardization Workshop, but it is far from usable. (And I have more ideas not yet posted.)


 * Another thing you ought to know is that the succession templates have sufferred several changes, or, more accurately, additions. Title parameters have been added to templates s-vac, s-new, and s-inc in order to make them more adjustable to various categories of succession chains without affecting the original templates and without being obligatory (thus providing the ability to newbies to ignore them). The documentation for them has greatly improved: each template has been given its own, professional-looking documentation page (by Whaleyland), SBS's main Documentation page is currently being renovated (by me), and a Cheatsheet has been created (again by me), in order to provide a quick reference for the templates, their function, and all their parameters.


 * One of the new features that will probably interest you is the ability to skip missing links in the chains by using s-vac with the label "Unknown". My philosophy is that a succession chain can only be 100% useful if there are no breaks in it, and with this solution we can bypass unknown title holders and restore continuity in the chains. (For more details, see the template page, as I have not yet added information about this feature to the Documenation page.)


 * I hope this briefing has been of use to you. Extra-long, I know, but there are many things to say. Anyway, nice to see you back on the job. Waltham, The Duke of 16:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

London Gazette
I've noticed that you've inserted a number of references into articles referring to the London Gazette. Are you aware that the archives are online, and there is a wikipedia template LondonGazette for linking direct to the relevant page of an issue? David Underdown 15:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Kildare
Thanks for changing the heading of that title page. I merely followed the link on the Earl of Kildare page. Regards, David Lauder 09:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Peers & Bts
I think you're wrong on this one. If you look in Burkes, Lodge, all the good peerage books, you will see all their titles in a row and if they are also baronets at the end of the peerage list it always says "and a baronet". Then at the end of the entries it lists the creations and dates, including any baronetcies. regards, David Lauder 15:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Canals, trolleys
Hi Choess. Your idea of a separate article for the Pennsylvania Canal is good, and I'll do it sometime soon. I thought I'd do the Beaver to Erie subset next, compressing the three short divisions (Beaver, Shenango, Conneaut) into one. It shouldn't take long to have the whole 1,243 miles of public and private canals in Pennsylvania covered in one way or another. You've done a nice job with the Bald Eagle and Spring Creek Navigation canal, and some of the other canals already have Wikipedia articles. My stubs are at the moment single-sourced to the Shank book. I'm sure they can be expanded and more widely supported with details from other sources. As for trolleys, I had to check my atlas to see where the Lykens Valley might be. I recently acquired a copy of Pennsylvania's Street Railways by Benson W. Rohrbeck, and, sure enough, on page 165 he has three paragraphs on the Lykens Valley Railway. Your book has much more detail, I'm guessing. Finetooth 21:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The new Pennsylvania Canal page is up and running as is the Beaver and Erie Canal. Thanks for the idea about improving the redirect page. Finetooth 04:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hypertext Protocol Refernce

 * Sorry about all the problems, I am not very good at being a Wikipedian! So far all of my articles have had problems and have been put on lists of speedy deletion and so forth.  Please could you tell me the reference so I can add it to the references section on the page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SkE (talk • contribs) 17:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Dates in succession boxes
I will kill you! I will kill you!

Sorry, I will get back to you. (hangs phone up)

Hello again, Choess. I hope that, even if you don't often answer your messages, at least you read them, for you edit a lot of succession boxes and the effects of every decision you make spread rather quickly.

What I am referring to is this: dates. There is a certain format for dates in succession boxes, as stipulated by our guidelines here. There are two elements I should like to focus on: Both guidelines have been approved after discussion between the members of SBS. Can you please, please stop undoing changes that are done following the guidelines? Please? I appreciate you as I do few other editors, but this is just frustrating. Waltham, The Duke of 11:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) We do not link dates, for an overabundance of links in a succession box makes said box appear overly cluttered. We use the date formats popular in each country (DD month YYYY in the Commonwealth and in Europe, month DD, YYYY in North America). There are few exceptions to the linking rule, most importantly elections.
 * 2) We always add spaces between the dates and their connecting dash, in order to improve their readability and appearance within the succession boxes and standardise all dates (as full dates accept spaces anyway).


 * Thank you for your prompt response. I should like to remind you, now, that WP:MOSDASH is a guideline, and therefore it is not binding, especially since succession boxes are not text. They are a whole new set of templates, and are therefore entitled to their own style guidelines. You might be interested in this discussion.
 * As far as the links are concerned... Seven words: William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland. Here is the incriminating evidence. You've been caught red-handed, Choess... Mwahahahaha! (starts coughing badly) I think I could use a glass of water here.
 * In any case, thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
 * PS: I hope you didn't think that I actually wanted to kill you. I was just talking to the phone. Honestly. ;-) Waltham, The Duke of 15:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Evrry Mosley ... but this one
$%^&*&! I think you're right Victuallers (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Edward Onslow
Hi, Choess! I came across your name on Edward Onslow and wondered - do you own or have access to the used as a reference for the article? Specifically the 2001 version:  I'm asking because (from what I've read) there's a section about Charles Wuorinen and his sexuality. Would you let me know on my talk page? Thanks!! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Lord Lieutenancies
Hello again. I have two questions:


 * 1) As I have said again, it is rather important for me to know whether there is a certain event or year defined as the divide between the political and honourary character of the group of offices in question. I am under the impression that this is the Interregnum (which is rather convenient, too, as Lord Lieutenancies were abolished for that time period), but I cannot be certain if there is any such mark.
 * 2) I should like to know the order in which you edit. That is, do you edit each Lord Lieutenancy's list and move on to the individual boxes, do you do the opposite, or did you edit all the lists and then proceeded to edit the succession boxes? I need to know which lists I can trust for reliable data.

Wish the blessing of the Unicorn, I bid you good day. Waltham, The Duke of 14:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing further, really. I simply wanted to know because I do not check any primary sources. Ever. I simply don't bother. And I am not good at this, either (actually, I have never done it, so I suppose I'm not good at it). My have simply never been interested in writing content. This is why I asked: because I only verify data for succession boxes in Wikipedia itself, so I want to know if it is correct.
 * (Although I did, once, notably Google an Archbishop of York's baronetcy, which was nowhere to be found in Wikipedia. After some searching, I found it in a website that turned out to be one of the most referenced to ones in Wikipedia: Angeltowns.)
 * And, as I've said, the Manual of Style is a guideline. It is important, but people sometimes take it way to seriously, if you ask me. Anyway, I suppose we could tackle this some other time. Thanks for your response. Waltham, The Duke of 20:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello again. Perhaps I thought it went without question, but I probably ought to ask anyway: is the temporal barrier separating political from honourary Lords Lieutenants (the Interregnum) valid for Custodes Rotulorum as well? Just to be on the safe side. Waltham, The Duke of 21:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * As I had expected. Thank you for your prompt answer; I shall add this tidbit in the Guidelines page as soon as I find that Baronets example I am looking for, so that I make both changes at the same time. I hate the habit of doing many small edits instead of one large one, which some editors seem to have picked up. And then they say they have a high edit count. What we should be looking at is the average number of edits per page. Anyway, the whole edit-counting topic has always been bad for my stomach, so I shall leave it here. Thanks and goodnight... Waltham, The Duke of 22:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

William Cowan (politician)
I think that I may have more material and I do need to at least document the source of the existing content since it wasn't online. Do what you think you need to do, though. I am not sure how quickly I will get back to that. --Big_iron 12:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

John Hay of Cromlix
This may also be of interest... Neddyseagoon - talk 14:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for supporting my RFA
Thanks for your friendship and confidence in my ability to keep writing articles - I will do my best to live up to it (and bug you on railroad and obscure source questions ;-) ). Keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks too for your congrats on my talk page Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Image Copyrights
My understanding is that any photo published before 1923 in the US is public domain (and a postcard is "published"). So even though the 2002 book published it again, it is still PD. I also understand that there is a Supreme Court decision that accuarate photos of two-dimensional images are not in and of themselves copyright-able (if that is a word). So I think you are doubly safe. I have scanned some Taber photos that were taken before 1923 for uploading as PD too (just have to crop the images). You still have to cite the source of the photo, but it is PD. Take care, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice job on Nittany Furnace (as always). How about submitting it for DYK? Maybe
 * ...that Nittany Furnace, a hot blast iron furnace in Spring Township, Centre County, Pennsylvania, had four different owners and closed at least five times in its 23 year history?


 * I think I correctly counted closings, but might have missed one or two. If you don't like that hook, how about


 * ...that Nittany Furnace, a hot blast iron furnace in Spring Township, Centre County, Pennsylvania, had four different owners between its opening in 1888 and final closure in 1911? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I like your hook better. Merry Christmas, although looks like this will be on the Main Page for Boxing Day ;-) Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 05:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Dear Choess, I wanted to wish you a very Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year! Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC) Dincher (talk) 19:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK: Nittany Furnace

 * Congrats on the DYK and the coveted first pictured slot! Did you see the comment left on the DYK nom page (suggestions if you wanted to go for GA with the article)? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Nittany Furnace GA Review: On Hold
Nehrams2020 (talk) 05:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job on your first GA! There are millions of other articles on Wikipedia that you can also improve to that level (or FA if you're interested), so happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 01:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations!!!! I know you are not a big userbox person, but you might like this. I tried doing the crop of the center of the postcard and added it just now - if it is not useful, revert at will. Nice job and I'm looking forward to Bellefonte Furnace! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * PS GA always needs reviewers ;-)

Thank you
Thanks Choess, if you want I can make a stub for the Lackawanna & Bloomsburg as a start. I have a few sources for it, but not enough to get it (much?) past stub. On a different note, I wondered if a map showing the location of Spring Township would help the image issue in Nittany Furnace? Either this or perhaps a red locator dot on this Pennsylvania map  (I can make this if you want)? Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * PS I know a bit about obscure articles - Larrys Creek had never been vandalized until it was on the Main Page, White Deer Hole Creek had what I thought was a vandal but was just someone trying to fix my error (and I blocked him for that by mistake - my proudest admin moment to date), and Plunketts Creek (Loyalsock Creek) has never been vandalized. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I would make the lettering and dots much bigger. You might also want to make the letters blue or some color other than black. Looks nice otherwise. Does any part of the old furnace remain - I sometimes get over that way and could try for a photo or two. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * PS Look at Spring Township, Centre County, Pennsylvania to see how small even the word "CENTRE" looks when the source map is about 300 pixels wide. Another possibility would be to just have a red dot and a blue dot (two dots of two different colors), and just say in the caption what each represents. Come to think of it, I was probably very close to the former Nittany Furnace site when I went to Black Moshannon State Park recently on a photo expedition - D'Oh! Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Much better - I would add it to the article. The other thought I had was perhaps using cropped sections of the postcard image in the article. Sort of like Ken Burns does - zoom in on a portion. Perhaps the furnace, stoves, and boiler house section? Finally, the PennPilot images are US Govt PD, so if parts of the physical plant were still around in the late 1930s, that would be a potential aerial shot. Not sure of the level of detail available though. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for locating Selinsgrove Speedway on the map! Dincher (talk) 17:56, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ditto on the thanks for the Speedway find. I really like the Science article too - it makes a lot of sense as I kept reading descriptions of streams that pointed out how they had changed with settlement. Taber talks about Pleasant Stream being much higher year round (not today's late summer low water) before the lumbering began, Owlett's Seasons Along The Tiadaghton: An Environmental History of the Pine Creek Gorge says much the same of Pine Creek, and there is a report of a settler jumping White Deer Hole Creek to evade Native pursuers that makes no sense today, but seems much more plausible in the light of this. I am going to update the creek articles soon, thanks again Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Whenever you get the chance (next week or next year), Lackawanna and Bloomsburg Railroad is now a stub. Whoops, have to add categories. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Got it up to Start class I think, now with nine refs, and I have a DYK nomination in. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Please don't worry about it - I actually am pretty pleased with the article considering the resources I had (not that it couldn't be made much better). Thanks for the tip on the UCIR - the WCOR was sold by Robey recently and I need to update all the articles. I have a funny story on the Science article but will email it to you. Take care, Ruhrfisch  <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Kingofmann
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Kingofmann/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Kingofmann/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, &mdash; Coren (talk) 01:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Leiper Canal
Thanks much for the additional source material. It's amazing how much information exists though it's scattered here and there. The Brandywine, by the way, must be someone else's project. We had talked briefly a couple of months ago about trolleys, but I haven't done any more with them after a few bits related to Lock Haven and Jersey Shore. Finetooth (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The Morlok web site you referred me to included mention of the Leiper House Museum, which I had not heard of before. It turns out to be at 521 Avondale Road, in Wallingford. Using that address as the upper terminus of the canal, I ran a MapQuest query to confirm the distance from the Leiper house along Crum Creek to the Delaware River at three miles or so close to it that I can call it three and feel satisfied. Thank you for your most helpful input. Finetooth (talk) 01:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

William Leslie (disambiguation)
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article William Leslie (disambiguation), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of William Leslie (disambiguation). JHunterJ (talk) 16:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

George Fletcher
I see you have a history of working on the article George Fletcher. I am looking at it from the project Unreferenced articles where it is one of the longest unreferenced tagged articles that does not meet at least the barest minimum of verifiability. It has been tagged and completely without references since June 2006. It would be extremely helpful if you had some references you could add to the article to help support its verifiability and notability. Thanks for any help you can give. Jeepday (talk) 14:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Earl of Sandwich
It seems to be "Hinchingbrooke". I've wondered before whether it started off as "Hinchinbroke", since I've seen it spelt like that on several occasions, but at the introduction in the House of Lords of the 1st Earl the titles are listed as "Baron of St. Neotes, Viscount Hinchingbrooke, and Earl of Sandwich", which would suggest it's always been that way. Proteus (Talk) 21:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Arthur Onslow
Thanks- that was something of a shot in the dark and is most interesting! Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with those is that they are being used everywhere, and the NA/Dab/Cat/Template classes are not used universally. I'll ask whether anybody minds if I change it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council, so feel free to add your input there. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 03:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

responses to your recent messages
Sorry I haven't gotten back to you until now.

Yes, I think a St. John's in the Wilderness article would be interesting; however I'd probably want a picture and some sources to use first.

Thanks for making the change to the Foundry photo caption. Come warmer weather, I'll take a pic of the office. The article says only one building is left standing, and since that's what you can see from the station I thought that was the office. Daniel Case (talk) 17:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

David Lauder and COI
In your AN post I'm not sure if you've misunderstood one of my original points on WP:TER, I know David Lauder certainly did. When I talked about proof of a COI with regards to the Sussexman checkuser it was referring to Counter-revolutionary in particular his image uploads which proved he was very close to many articles he'd been editing. I don't think there's anyone suggesting David Lauder editing Lauder was a COI at all. One Night In Hackney 303  03:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, Fozzie's comments were slightly harsh in respect of the "not here to build an enclyopedia" aspect. Re Kittybrewster I think I summarised it best here when I mentioned Robert Murray Arbuthnot. Creating articles on as many people called Arbuthnot as possible (even unrelated ones) may not be a COI per se, but it's certainly at odds with the encylopedia to an extent. Is the goal of the encyclopedia to document notable people, or notable (or otherwise) people called Arbuthnot? In those terms I had much less of a problem with the family member articles than the non-family member articles, as there were a great many notable members of the family. One Night In Hackney  303  04:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Smithfield
Thanks for your help on the Smithfield, London article, appreciated! --DarTar (talk) 13:31, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Source question
Hi Choess, I have a source I use which used to be available online, but is not any longer (and the state is not planning on putting it back - I asked). The source is:

It used to be at this URL (as of March 28, 2006). The good news is that I have it downloaded (it is a huge PDF), the bad news is it is no longer generally available. I have looked in the Internet Archive and cannot find it - do you know of any other place it may be online? Thanks in advance and hope all is well with you, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for finding it, Choess! I will link it next, great find! Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I fixed the link in Larrys Creek and will fix the rest over the next few days. The link you found is on the Internet Archive too, though I didn't try to open it as it is so large. I have three copies of it, just to be safe. I find it easier to open the copy on my computer and look through that vs. opening it online. Ruhrfisch  <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

GA review of Robert Burnell
Thanks! I got a head of steam up so managed to add a bit more than you required. Oh, well, it won't go to waste. Thanks, your comments were helpful. Ealdgyth | Talk 22:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * On the ArbCom, just look at the evidence and see if you can refute anything brought up by either side. If I've got something wrong, I wanna know it. All I can say is that what I've read leads me to believe that it was the typical medieval experience with alliances, people talked about forming a number of them, but ONE grand alliance isn't supported by the evidence. But look and form an opinion for yourself. If you have access to stuff on Armenia, that might be good to double check (I don't, and Armenian names make my head swim, so I haven't ever studied them past the "Oh, yeah, the Romans had issues with Parthia over Armenia" and "Armenians were supporters/allies/antagonists for the Crusaders too, right?" type stuf) I only got involved because of it invading Edward I of England, who I plan to work on someday. The English kings are on my list of "to-do-someday" things, like I have time (grins). Thanks for the support though. Ealdgyth | Talk 00:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Terbezek-Darbsâk-Trapessac
Choess: I would be happy to make a stub for this fortress. Could you tell me which name would be the most appropriate title for the article. The name appearing most frequently in English language literature about the Templars would be best. The Turkish name I have will not be very useful except as a redirect. Aramgar (talk) 04:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Try Trapessac. I left a list of alternate spellings on the talkpage. Please feel free to move the page if you think one of the other names is better. I am glad I could help. Aramgar (talk) 05:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

RE: English-language histories of the Regno
Hello and thank you for the message Choess. Unfortunetly that period of the kingdom is greatly looked over by authors in the English language... I have only ever seen books from the French on the subject such as EG Leonard's "Les Angevins de Naples" wrote in 1954, it has also been released in Italian as "Gli angioini di Napoli e di Ungheria" but the price is always quite steep (around 50 euros!). Historians seem to like covering the Bourbon period more. - Gennarous (talk) 03:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Foley, 2nd Baron Foley
Thanks for moving it back. I was just about to do it myself! Peterkingiron (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Foley et al.
WE seem to share an interst in the iron industry! see my user page. Many of the Foleys whom I have been converting into stubs were ironmasters. That was the source of the family wealth. I have been reluctant to write a lot of articles about individual ironworks, partly because I wonder whether they were notable enough; partly because I might want to publish my work as hard copy; and partly becasue much of my sources are unpublished archives, which constitute WP:OR. I have occasionally incoprated material form archival sources, because I can find nothing else, so as to complete a story, or to avoid republishing what I know is wrong, but have tried not to, according to WP guidelines. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Two suggested article on Robert Foley (MP) and Paul Foley (of Prestwood) done, also Robert's father. I have not been doing the succession boxes, because they are so easy to get wrong.  My source for saying the Burke is wrong for Paul is family deeds etc, which I listed about 10 years ago.  Rayment gives Paul's death as 1739, but that date may be the death of another Paul Foley, perhaps the barrister who was 2nd son of Paul Foley (ironmaster), the Speaker.  Peterkingiron (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * After grubbing around in Google Books, looking at Romney Sedgewick's catalog of MPs, it appears that I misidentified Paul Foley; the MP for Aldborough and Weobley was the 2nd son of the Speaker, died 1739, and I've rewritten it accordingly. Choess (talk) 03:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Paul Foley
I am sure you are right in identifying the MP. I have changed his age (see article talk page), though this is technically WP:OR, die th the nature of the source. I have rescued the lost text that I wrote and added it to Philip Foley, tidying that article up in the process. Was Philip an MP after 1701? Peterkingiron (talk) 17:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Crusades task force
Hey Choess, I know you don't work on medieval stuff much anymore, but I've created a Crusades task force as part of the Middle Ages WikiProject. I thought you might be interested. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

High Sheriffs
I see you've been making a few additions to High Sheriff of Northamptonshire, if you look at High Sheriff of Cheshire you'll see that I've found virtually all the issues of the London Gazette where Sheriffs' appointments are announced, back to 1840 (plus 1834). David Underdown (talk) 09:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

More on High Sheriffs
Hi, I see that you changed the link from West Yorkshire from being a blue link to High Sheriff into a red link to the as-yet-nonexistent High Sheriff of West Yorkshire. It seems more useful to let the link point to somewhere with real information, but I decided that rather than just revert your change I'd make a redirect from High Sheriff of West Yorkshire to High Sheriff, so that the link would be valid if/when the page gets created at that name in future (which is why it's blue above). A downside of this is that the navbox listing High Sheriffs now has a blue link for West Yorkshire although there isn't an article, but I think that matters less. I see you've made redlinks on some other pages such as Henry Norris, 1st Baron Norreys: could you please make redirects for those too (as a temporary measure if you're planning to create the pages)? Otherwise we're losing information. PamD (talk) 07:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops! I endorse speedy delete of non-existent Sheriffs of the Ridings. - Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Harley family
Whoever created some of the articles on the family relied on ThePeerage.com, where this recorded one child of parents to say that was the only child. The source seems usually to be mentions of parentage in the Complete Peerage. Is this a well-known defect in that site? I looked up the Earls of Oxford in Burkes Peerage 1851 as my source. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not my experience that Burke's is always correct. - Kittybrewster  &#9742;  23:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Burke's peerage
I was vaguely aware of the criticism of older editions. In this particular case I had to use an ancient one, because I needed a pedigree of the (Harley) Earls of Oxford from before the title became extinct. Unfortunately the Harleys of Brampton Bryan (who inherited their ancient estate) share the surname, but have a different descent. Since I was dealing with what happened in the 18th century, I would assume that mid-19th century editions were reasonably reliable. I found what appeared to be discrepancies with ThePeerage.com, which was the issue that I was raising: its compiler seemed to be recording a person as the only child, when Burke said there were several. I suspect the problem is that the compiler of the website had only seen evidence of one, and some one who wrote a WP article, seeing that, assumed that meant an only child. This looks like a case of misunderstanding the scope of the website, whose compiler has not posted detail on the Earls of Oxford. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There ae numerous inaccuracies in "The Kingdom of Scotland" too. I suggest you email the webmaster at thepeerage.com. - Kittybrewster  &#9742;  22:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

As to writ of summons, it was Michael not William de la Pole: I misread the Oxford DNB biography. I will correct this at once. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See response to your further comments in my talk page, particularly as to my AFD. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC).
 * Thank you for your support over William de la Pole. I agree with your final comment that there was no evidence for the existence of Owen's son William, but I did not have sufficient access to sources to positively assert this.  I must now remove the spurious information from Powys Wenwynwyn, if no one else has.  Peterkingiron (talk) 08:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Rayment links
Hi Choess

Thanks for your msg. I like to keep discussions in one place, so I have replied at User talk:BrownHairedGirl. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Garibaldi in Bedford
Hi, Choess. When I was working up James Howard (agriculturalist), I just couldn't get to the bottom of that 'Lord Leveson Gower' who appears in the Bedford Times article, except that he was presumably some relation of the 3rd Duke of Sutherland, so I decided just to repeat what the newspaper report said, even though there seemed to be no such person. Thanks for getting to the bottom of it, but I'm curious, do you have a source for Lord Albert Leveson-Gower being at that party, or is it inspired guess-work? Regards, Xn4  21:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No, no. Look down towards the bottom of page 52 on the link to the Annual Register: "The party [visiting Bedford] consisted of Garibaldi, his two sons, His Grace the Duke of Sutherland, Lord A L Gower, Lord Alfred Paget, &c.". Albert's the only reasonable candidate for "Lord A L Gower." Choess (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, that's excellent, I've added the citation to the James Howard article. For some reason, in my browser your link defaulted to the book summary, and not to page 52. Thanks again, Xn4  14:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Auditors of the imprest
Might a complete list be in Sainty's "Officers of the Exchequer," (List and Index Soc. spec. ser. 18)? I can look at it the next time I go into the city. Choess (talk) 13:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have copies the relaevant material this morning and am inserting it now. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment regarding usage of "Sir"/"Dame" in text
(beep)

I am not sure that the discussion is not dead already, but I have just discovered it and thought you might want to leave a comment.

By the way, I have fixed the dashes in your archive box; I hope you don't mind. Waltham, The Duke of 01:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

RE: Another source
Yeah, you sent me the source a few years back and that's where I got most of the information from. I just need to add them into the articles. Thanks anyway. Craigy (talk) 21:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Regiments Qs from Craigy
Hiya Choess. Thanks for adding the regiment details to the last few pages I created. Can I ask where you got them from because regiments.org seems to have been down since last year and they'd certainly come in handy? Regards Craigy (talk) 17:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Brill! Thanks a lot. Craigy (talk) 18:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, Choess. Do you know if imprests should be capitalised? Craigy (talk) 10:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Long time no talk
Hi Choess, always good to hear from you. I think that Pennsylvania Natural Areas are generally notable and article-worthy, plus I am sure you have good sources. I am not sure I would develop separate articles on NAs that are part of state parks (like Black Moshannon Bog NA or Gull Point NA at Presque Isle State Park). There is no systematic effort to write articles on NAs, but I can see one at some point. So I would say go for two articles and two DYKs.

My love of the neglected made me work on Snyder Middleswarth Natural Area originally. I am stuck as I cannot find when it lost its state park status, otherwise I think I could get it to GA or possibly FA. I have both PA State park histories - let me know if you want me to look anything up (not sure there will be anything, but I can look). Take care, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I just reread your message and realized I had not provided any sources here - sorry to be so dense. The Audubon Society of PA has two online resources that may be useful. If the natural area is in an Important Bird Area then there will generally be a lot of info on the plants and animals in the IBA here If it is in the Susquehanna River watershed, then it may be listed in their guide to birding sites here . The DCNR pages for state forests will usually have a bit on the Natural Areas in that forest, and there is a DCNR page on the ones in state parks. One more useful source that comes to mind is hiking books. I have a couple and could look for details if you wanted me to. Hope this is more helpful, Ruhrfisch  <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Which Natural Area is it? Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I will check my books later today. You have probably already seen it, but this webpage says it was donated to the state in 1928 and made a National Natural Landmark in 1967. As an NNL official site for it I think it is especially worthy of an article (Snyder-Middleswarth is an NNL too). I will check the New York Times next. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing on this natural area by name in the NY Times (althoug they do have a few articles on Box Huckleberry that seem to mention this plant). I found this Perry Co. Museum that has a Hoverter archive - I bet an email or call to them would help. I also wonder about emailing the state forest office or perhaps the National Park Service - there must be some records for its selection as a NNL. I know with NRHP forms, the NPS will send you a free copy of the nomination form. Hope these ideas help, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:57, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There is nothing on it in Cupper's PA state parks history (which has an index) and it does not seem to be in an IBA. The Audubon Bird Trail guide does mention and has some useful tidbits (smallest NA in PA, common birds and animals) here. Forrey's history of the state parks does not have an index - I did not find it in the lists of parks through time in the back, although it does list several Natural Areas as of 1954. One thought I had is that it seems not to have been named anything other than "Box Huckleberry Natural Area" in 1967 when it was made a NNL - if that is correct, then the Hoverter & Sholl name would be a post-1967 addition. Forgot to check my hiking books, will do that next Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks - Thwaite's "50 Hikes in Central Pennsylvania" does not mention it, but John Young's "Hike Pennsylvania" does on page 173. It is all fairly standard stuff - 1300 year old box huckleberry and no mention of the namesakes. If you want I can type up the ref and email it to you, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Good, I'd rather not type it unless it was needed ;-) I am thinking of making a navbox for "Pennsylvania National Natural Landmarks and State Natual Areas". Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC) PS Here it is on Google books

Bellevue State Park (Delaware)
There is a dispute going on as to the location of this park within New Castle County, Delaware, specifically if it is within Wilmington or not. My thoughts and sources are on the park's talk page. Do you have any way of checking the political boundaries? Thanks, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Rumex graminifolius
Thanks for taking the time to source this. --Blechnic (talk) 17:01, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm doing a summer language immersion program, and it's not on plants. How can you teach 3 sections of microbiology?  I think that plagiarism is an issue that may come back to bite Wikipedia.  My botany is limited, but let me know if I can help you out with anything.  --Blechnic (talk) 03:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Creek Thanks
Thanks for finding that on the Cowanesque settler - that seems to nail it. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I placed a reference to the website that you found in a comment to my typescript of these minutes. Thanks much!  Nyttend (talk) 04:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Re Surprise
(removed nice infobox generated by Ruhrfisch for brevity)

I personally have used the Geobox Bridge on covered bridges, like Cogan House Covered Bridge, which passed FAC that way. The alternative is to just add a nrhp infobox, perhaps abbreviated so as not to repeat info from the bridge infobox - I made one with this Elkman's nifty tool here. Looks good! Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 17:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I neglected to say that I included the NRHP information in the Geobox bridge. I also think a very abbreviated NRHP box would be fine. Take care, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Postnominal "Bt"
I notice that in succession boxes, lists of ministers etc. baronets are often listed as "Sir Firstname Surname, Bt". Do you know why the postnominal is used? Other postnominals such as KG, GCB, CMG, LVO, OBE, MP, QC, etc etc etc, many of which also relate to the title "Sir", are not included, so surely for the sake of consistency "Bt" shouldn't be, either? Was some sort of consensus reached on this issue at any point? Opera hat (talk) 16:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Malik Ric
Hi Choess, I did intend to look for that, thanks for reminding me...I have the English translation of one of the Old French continuations, hopefully it's in there. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again, I can't find this anywhere, although I admit I haven't really scoured the texts...it seems to be used a lot in popular histories and historical novels, so it must come from somewhere, I'm just not sure where. A good biography of Richard, if there is one (i.e., not Reston) should have the original source. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Upon further inspection, I still can't find it...I looked through the books about Richard at my department's library today, but I was struck by how few books there are about him in a library devoted to medieval studies. There was even a book called "The Legends of King Richard I, Coeur de Lion" by Bradford B. Broughton (what a name!), but there is no mention of it there. The big main library has more books so I'll have to check there too. As for baillis, well I'll see what I can do, but it might be awhile! Adam Bishop (talk) 03:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Action 1702
Sorry. I only went to the article to see if we could change the name to the Battle of Santa Marta. I was going to open a disscussion on the talk page; in a moment of over-zealousness I marked it down. I'll put it back because it's a good article Rebel Redcoat (talk) 21:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

State park pic
Thanks for adding a pic of French Creek State Park! We are still trying to add pics of all the parks. Thanks again and if you have more please add them. Dincher (talk) 22:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay. Here's the list of the state parks in southeastern PA that lack a photo. Marsh Creek State Park, Neshaminy State Park, and Nolde Forest Environmental Education Center. Also VerruckteDan has a user page here that has a chart of all the parks and what is needed for each park. We are getting closer to our goal of having pics for all 120 parks. Thanks for any help that you can provide. Have a good night. Dincher (talk) 03:46, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

UCIR
The Lewisburg to MIfflinburg line will definitely become a rail trail - not sure if you saw this or not. Thanks for the pic too! Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 22:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I need to update the UCIR page with the story you sent me and this. I think as long as it was free on Flickr when it was uploaded, we can keep using it. I like the small world story, thanks Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the UCIR cleanup. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OK< I could also change the line to some other color and label it rail trail if that would be useful. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed the map to show the rail trail as a purple line and added the ref to Union County Industrial Railroad. Does this seem OK? Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Prince Christian Oscar of Hanover
Choess,

Thank you for your comment on the article's deletion page and for the sharing the sources that you came across concerning the prince. I was a bit surprised when the article came up for deletion but it allowed me to make the article better so this hasn't necessarily been a bad thing. Thanks again! --Caponer (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: OK, you got me
No idea. I think he might have been partially blind, but I really don't know. I'll try and find out when I get the chance. Craigy (talk) 22:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know. Admittedly it's original research. Thanks for your link, too. Craigy (talk) 15:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. It's my native historic county so it's a pet favourite of mine. I'll make some lists. Craigy (talk) 01:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

One last source
You've probably seen this "Natural Pennsylvania: Exploring the State Forest Natural Areas" by Charles Fergus, but just in case you haven't it is on Amazon and can be searched - nothing on Hoverter though Ruhrfisch  <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 09:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

RfA
Fancy a mop and bucket, Choess? I certainly think you deserve them and I'm quite surprised you haven't been recommended yet(!) I've wanted to ask you for a while but kept forgetting to. Let me know. Craigy (talk) 07:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I second this. Came here to ask you myself and I saw Craigy beat me to it. Kafziel Complaint Department 18:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's nice to know someone else supports this too :-) Craigy (talk) 20:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Fall Brook photo
Hi Choess, I looked at what links to the Jersey Shore, Pine Creek and Buffalo Railway and found this User:Choess/Fall Brook Coal Company. There is astatue to one of the founders of this in the main square in Wellsboro, PA and on the sides are bronze (?) bas reliefs of the Fall Brook Coal Company and a railroad. I will upload them and give links here. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The articles both look very good - I added the "(pictured)" to the DYK hook - if the natural area is too small (under 1500 characters of text) the book has a bit on history that could be added. I uploaded the Fall Brook Photo - I can rotate and crop it if need be. I also uploaded Image:Cowanesque and Antrim Railway Plaque.jpg and Image:John Magee Monument.jpg if they are of use. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Burkem sock
Hi. I took a look at and agree with your assessment of sockpuppetry. I've blocked the account. I'm a bit busy now, so I'd appreciate it if you would review all of the contributions and revert as appropriate. Thanks. &mdash; ERcheck (talk) 02:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like we were typing to each other. Thanks for reverting.  &mdash; ERcheck (talk) 02:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

We are go
It's ready. Just state your acceptance and answer the questions, and we'll be set. I'm also going to let Craigy know so he can co-nom if he wants. Kafziel Complaint Department 22:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You have my support - I think the effectiveness of co-noms is inversely proportional to their number, but if you want a second I would be glad to. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand completely - it was more that I wanted to make the offer (without the expectation of actually being a co-nominator). I think you will make a great admin. I liked the depictions of the coal car and train - I am in Wellsboro every several months, so I can try and get a picture with better lighting. I also noticed that I missed "Corning" on the railway name. Oh well. Thanks in advance for any comments on Leonard Harrison, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Huckleberry
I like the huckleberry articles. Very interesting. Leonard Harrison State Park is up for FAC if you care to weigh in. Dincher (talk) 00:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the Marsh Creek State Park pic. I am happy to report that I have all my limbs, but sadly the tree is in pretty much the same state. I found that dull chain saws don't saw much. And buying a new chain for a borrowed saw is too expensive! Dincher (talk) 03:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merger
Hi Choess. Forgot to say "welcome back"; hope you enjoyed your holidays. I've proposed a merger here if you'd like to comment. Regards, Craigy (talk) 02:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

RfA
Hey, just stopping by to let you know I left a question at your RfA. Take your time answering, cheers, Tiptoety  talk 18:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!
I will still recast the Modern era history section to see if we can avoid a bit of WP:Proseline and ask your opinion of it when done. Thanks too for the new Marsh Creek photo. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now my reorganization is done - I moved the Nessmuk PHMC marker into the Lumber section, all the other changes are in the Modern era. Please let me know what you think when you have the time and inclination (after your RfA is fine). I am also asking Dincher (of course), and Finetooth and Ben MacDui to take a look since they supported at FAC too. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 17:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Neutral
I was sorry not to support your RfA. It looks like it will be successful, in which case, I urge you to think about what I wrote even more than if it were going to fail. Good luck, regardless, you're clearly one of the good guys. --Dweller (talk) 11:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delighted to have struck it and moved to Support. --Dweller (talk) 11:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for stopping in to say Hi. As you can see I'm a big fan of South Central PA. Wish I could move up there. What parts of North Carolina were your families from? Mine are the Piedmont for the most part. Kingwhick (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Your RFA
Best wishes for your RFA -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 09:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you going to answer the questions still open on your rfa? Sumoeagle179 (talk) 10:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations
It's essentially over now and, unless you go on a crazy vandalism rampage before a 'crat closes the discussion, I'd say it went quite well. Kudos on actually getting some work done in the meantime, too. I know your intent is to keep editing as usual, but if you do have questions about the tools please don't hesitate to ask. Good luck! Kafziel Complaint Department 19:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  20:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Your RFA was successful
Congratulations, I have closed your Request for Adminship as successful and you are now a sysop! If you have any questions about adminship, feel free to ask me. Please consider messaging me on IRC for access to the #wikipedia-en-admins channel. Good luck! --Deskana (talk) 20:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Congrats! :-) Craigy (talk) 20:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, indeed! —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs) 21:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Congrats Choess, I know that I opposed your RfA, but if you ever have any questions or need any help... feel free to ask. Good luck.--- Balloonman  PoppaBalloon 21:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations and all the best, use the tools well. Camaron | Chris (talk) 22:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats! Ecoleetage (talk) 22:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Congrats! Time to enroll in New admin school. Exploding Boy (talk) 00:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Congratulations ,on your successful RFA ! Dont forget to delete the main page... Best wishes ! -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 05:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

William Michell
Hey, thanks for the expansion :). Where did you find the info? <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 04:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't describe it as quixotic in the "idealism without practicallity" sense, although that being said it's so far taken me two weeks just to get everything nicely formatted and create a small number of missing MP articles. It's actually got me a lot more interested in creating articles on such people (and also clearing up the way MP's are shown on constituency pages, some of them are dire). I'd be more than happy to help with any mini-manual; other things I think'd be useful would be a cut-down version of the MoS section on noble titles (50-60% of big officials pre-1945 normally have titles) and good places to look for info (leigh's peerage pages, the online version of burke's peerage, ONDB). Wikiprojects related to Parliament and the British government don't appear to be that active; I left a message on the talk page when I started the Northstead thing two weeks ago and i've still got no reply. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 03:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ditto :). You wouldn't be any good at pretty paragraphs of properly prepared prose, would you? The sort not involving rampant alliteration ;p. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 03:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm bloody useless at it. For the "Stewards of the Manor of Northstead" list to get featured, it needs a pretty introduction. Fancy getting a nice shiny Featured List sticker? <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 02:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

My edits
Yes, I'm crap :-) Thanks a lot, as ever. Craigy (talk) 15:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

George Hammond Whalley
Hey, you listed him as honourary high sheriff; I can't seem to find his name on the list :S. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 01:35, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've checked out the Chiltern Hundreds issue; a lovely lady from the House of Commons was nice enough to send me a PDF of every appointee since 1850, and that confirms he is a Northstead appointee. In regards to the merger; I think if you merge you run into the opposite problem; the article gets to be too darn long. Merging the current list and article wouldn't be an issue, but mine contains about 50 new names (from said list) which weren't included. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 03:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmn. According to the article on the Manor of Northstead Chalmers was sent out through northstead, but the dates and info were changed to make it look like he was sent out through the Hundreds. Not sure how we should present that :S. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 16:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And there was me thinking he couldn't get any odder! Thanks for the additional info :). <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 18:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Brian Tuke
I am slowly working on a draft of Brian Tuke and see him mentioned as Treasurer of the Privy Purse. I am wondering if this is the same as Keeper of the Privy Purse which I see you edited recently. Some of your edits seem to be British parliament related, so I thought I would ask you for some help. Tuke seems to have had severeal other positions during Henry VIIIs reign but most have no articles or maybe newer titles. TIA (I reply where the discussion starts, so I am watching you, for a while at least) ww2censor (talk) 18:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Doing some trawling in Google Books, Tuke appears mostly to be described as Treasurer of the Chamber (1528–1545), French secretary (1523–?), and Clerk of the Parliaments (1523–1539). (Evidently the old DNB is erroneous in calling him "Treasurer of the Household".) That he was Treasurer of the Chamber is quite certain; this had for a while been the predominant financial office under the late Plantagenets and early Tudors, but Thomas Cromwell began to curtail its importance for his own purposes during Tuke's tenure. In addition, I quote from the ODNB: "Between 1529 and 1532 Norris, as keeper of the privy purse, had taken over many payments previously the responsibility of Brian Tuke, treasurer of the chamber." We don't have an article on the Clerk of the Signet, but it is an established office which lasted down to 1851 (ref), so we probably will eventually. I question the veracity of the Walker passage describing Tuke as "Treasurer of the Privy Purse" and "Under-Treasurer of England". Sir Richard Weston seems to have occupied the latter post during most of the period during which Tuke flourished (1528–1542), and he was replaced by Sir John Baker. (Edylne's Law-dictionary identifies this post with that of under-treasurer of the Exchequer, now united with the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer.) I find no other references to a British "Treasurer of the Privy Purse" that do not really refer to the Keeper of the Privy Purse, and Tuke certainly was not appointed to that office. Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up for you. Choess (talk) 00:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please would you do a stub for Clerk of the Signet - presumanbly a Senior fore-runner to Writer to the Signet. - Kittybrewster  &#9742;  00:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you know if it was a sinecure office, as I imagine Sir Brook Taylor was on the continent most of the time? Craigy (talk) 08:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. Might've helped if I'd read the whole article! Thanks for the further insight. Craigy (talk) 15:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Which Walker book are you questioning the veracity of? "Haste, Post, Haste! Postmen and Post-roads through the Ages" or "Writing Under Tyranny English Literature and the Henrician Reformation". Thanks ww2censor (talk) 00:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Viscount Castlereagh
Hello Choess,

You seem to have added Clitheroe to the list of boroughs Castlereagh represented.

In that list it is not listed that Castlereagh was first elected to the Irish House of Commons in 1790 as a representative for county Down - although this is said in the text.

The table lists him as having been elected to represent Limavady in 1798 - I suspect though he never took up this seat as at the same time he was re-elected to County Down. The Limavady seat was perhaps a hedge against his possible failure to retain his Down seat.

If my supposition is correct Limavady would perhaps be best removed from the table. Certainly Down should be there.

I do not know how to alter this list, however, could you possibly fix it?

mise le meas

Ned of the Hills (talk) 13:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Much thanks for your help on this Choess.

Ned of the Hills (talk) 09:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Masters of the King's Postes
I have started to assemble a list of office holders in one of my sandboxes, but would appreciate any assistance you can give to clarify people, dates, names and offices. The most confusing is Thomas Witherings who was Postmaster of the Foreign Posts before eventually becoming Master of the inland post. Most of the info comes from James Wilson Hyde's The Early History of the Post in Grant and Farm. Hope you can assist, Thanks ww2censor (talk) 03:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Photo found
Hi Choess, I was on the Pine Creek Rail Trail recently and they had a photo of the Image:Jersey Shore, Pine Creek and Buffalo Railway.JPG on an information sign, so I photographed it and uploaded it and put it in the Jersey Shore, Pine Creek and Buffalo Railway article. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I cropped the orginal photo - the caption on the sign was "in 1883, the Jersey Shore, Pine Creek and Buffalo Railroad was opened as a route to move coal from the mines of Clearfield County to New York State. Later, the rail line became part of the New York Central system and carried passengers and lumber from the prosperous towns and mills along the creek." I checked Taber's "Sunset Along Susquehanna Waters" and there are two engines numbered 51 listed: one is from the Central Pennsylvania Lumber Co., the type is "2 Tr", Builder is "Heisler", built in 1900, "C.N. 1046" and weight is 20 Tons. Also seems to have been narrow guage. The other possibility is from James B. Weed and Company, operated 1886 to 1910 on Slate Run in Lycoming County, and it had an engine # 51 which was a 0-4-0, so this seems most likely (to get to Trout Run, the trains would have had to travel on the JSPC&BR). Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * PS The JSPC&BR line is in the background along Pine Creek in this photo too, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So the station and signals do not seem correct for the James B. Weed & Co. line? Or would they also be incorrect for the JSPC&BR too? Could it be the lumber locomotive on the JSPC&BR? I also have a picture of the Darling Run station (just south of Ansonia and about 10 miles west of Wellsboro in Tioga County) that I could upload if that would help. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Woohoo - "Sunset Along Susquehanna Waters" also says it was rented from the NYCRR and returned there as its disposition (sorry not to have included that before). I agree with your idea - so it is the right line, but the wrong time? If so, should it come out of the JSPC&BR article? Could be added to the rail trail article, I suppose. I have the splash dam article next on my list after my latest in PR is done. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I just read (skimmed) the chapter on Weed and the only thing I found was that the #3 engine, purchased in 1904, was converted to standard gauge and became the switcher (no longer needed for bringing in timber as logging had moved closer to the mill, which was between Pine Creek and the rail line there). After #3 became the switcher, #51 was returned to the NYCRR, so the most specific I can find is 1904 or later. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * PS The previous info was just from the Mill and Engine appendix in the back, I had not (re)read the chapter until now. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Richard II
No, Aubrey is Robert's uncle, and actually succeeded his own nephew when the nephew was disinherited. It's a bit complex; there's more info in the article John de Vere, 7th Earl of Oxford, with a family tree also. Maybe I should try to make it clearer in the article though.

I'd really appreciate if you could have a look at the article, no hurry! Lampman (talk) 13:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Henry Rolle
Well spotted for your revert. Have you checked that I did not repeat the error elsewhere? I was working on MP lists for Exeter (but also looking at Devon) at the time. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had interfered elsewhere, and lacked the time earlier to check that I have not messed more links up. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

George Treby
Excellent, thanks; i'm working on that article now in my sandbox, actually. It is kind of difficult to distinguish between the 3-4 identically named people who served as a Plympton MP; i'm going to check out leigh rayments page and use that to correct any links on the Plympton Earle page. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 18:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Splash dam
Hi Choess, thanks for your edits to Splash dam (and for suggesting the article in the first place - it made DYK). Would you mind looking at the lumber section of Leonard Harrison State Park and see if you think a parenthetical note is still needed (dam is "splash dam" and linked now) or perhaps a footnote or what? We are working on Colton Point State Park now and will incorporate whatever there too. Thanks, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have a bit to add to Splash dam still - have a few more minor sources. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:11, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool - one of the things I like about Wikipedia is how things that seem completely unrelated are actually oddly intertwined. Splash dam was written for Leonard Harrison State Park, then I found that Barbour Rock just north of Colton Point State Park is named for a man killed after unpinning a log jam on Pine Creek at the Owassee Rapids (also known as Barbours Bend). I like Civil War history but do not know much about the campaigns in that part of the south except Vicksburg. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

RE: John Vaughan
Didn't know that, no; i'll keep that in mind :). Y'know I really need to give you a barnstar, every time I create an article there's you clearing up my silly errors :). Do you accept them? I can't see any on your userpage, and I can't imagine you not having been given any. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 08:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, the Sheriffs are on my "things to do" list and look monstrous; an example of how badly they're maintained is that, when a couple of my earlier justices turned out to be HS's as well I has to create categories for "High Sheriff's of X"; nobody had thought to do that :S. I've emailed the HS association regarding any records they may have; hopefully that'll help. Does the Gazette have searchable archives, then? <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 12:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks! Want to portion the HS's out? I take former, you take current, that sort of thing. There's also the question of what to do with High Sheriff of Yorkshire; it's wonderfully complete, but awkwardly long; i'd appreciate any suggestions as to turning it into a seperate list/splitting it into multiple pages/so on. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 13:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, although it's the sheer number of entries that cause issues. The beginning of the House of Stuart seems to be the most even place to make a split, but i'd prefer a spot where something of note happened to the HS system to justify a split. Unfortunately all the changes seem to be in odd places; social reformers can be so damn inconsiderate sometimes. If you're focusing on the 1830+ bits i'll do what I can before, although our collaborations seem to be very laurel and hardy-esque; I bumble along, you clear up behind me (although i've yet to see you light your thumb). <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 13:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Flower question
I am pretty sure that you may know a thing or two about wild flowers. Ruhrfisch and I would like to know if you can ID these. We recognize goldenrod, but the rest? Image:Pine Creek Wildflowers.jpg. Thanks. Dincher (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much - I added the information to the image caption, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Thank you. Dincher (talk) 13:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

RE:FYI
Thanks :). I think I need to take it a bit slower and i'll make less mistakes; sorry for the long reply, btw, real life intruded for me too. I'll be finished with the Chief Justices in a few days, so i'll start work on the high sheriffs after that :). <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 20:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That reminds me; would you be able to look at this for me? It's a draft of the Court of Common Pleas article i've been working on (i've even looked through the 16-volume history of the english legal system, phew); i'd be grateful if you could look for any of my typical problems (spelling/ref issues/so on) even if you're not an expert on the legal terminology. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 21:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * yup, thanks for your help. It isn't actually finished; I still need to work on the later stuff, so i'll fold the amalgamation bit in when i've got the additional info on it. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 22:51, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Presumptive or Not
Forgive me for asking but an heir presumptive can be displaced. An Heir apparent can not. Can you qualify for me your edit of earlier re- Pease family Thanks. Charles681 (talk) 17:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In the context above certainly - though I think I've a unique exception. The heir apparent to the earldom of Selkirk can be displaced as heir to those titles were his father to succeed to the Dukedom - as long as the son(HA) has at least one brother who would become HA to the earldom. AllsoulsDay (talk) 14:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As our own wiki entry makes clear the inability of heirs apparent to be displaced is not definitional. Most European houses, including the UK, have rules which allow the displacement of the HA if they fail to meet certain tests (religion/marriage/citizenship etc) All Scottish peers have a potential for the same as legitimisation can alter succession order. AllsoulsDay (talk) 09:19, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Pease Baronetcy
Point taken. Even though I know my uncle, Alfred Vincent Pease died without issue. Thanks Charles681 (talk) 17:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Pease Baronetcy
Thankyou Choess. That looks like a good work-around solution. And yes, I am heir to my father, Joseph Gurney Pease, as you say. I didn't wish to appear pedantic or get caught up in some semantic issue but I think you have found a way to clarify the position. Should my father seek to be placed upon the Baronetcy Roll, I shall amend the page accordingly. With thanks and appreciation Charles681 (talk) 18:11, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Charles Scarisbrick
It's been a while since I uploaded that photo, but I'm fairly sure I got those details from this website. Please feel free to amend the photo description if you feel this is incorrect. Regards. Small-town hero (talk) 13:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Chief Justice of the Common Pleas
Hey, just to say; there's no "lord" prefix (Lord Chief Justice...) it's just Chief Justice :). <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 21:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, so it's you who's been doing that! I should've known nobody else would be in this area of the wiki :P. It caused some interesting "bwuhh?!" moments when I went to my high-sheriffs-of-essex-containing-one-article category to add a second and found another five already there. I've added a few more early ones I found as a result of my Chief Justice work, and i'll have about 5 more (some guy had five simultaneously) which i'll stick in when i've finished my current infobox rampage.
 * As to the LCJ/CJ thing; all the sources i've found say Chief, not Lord Chief, which is odd considering the Exchequer and King's Bench heads were both LCJ's. A sign of the Common Court's inferiority, maybe, or the fact it dealt with common pleas only? <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 21:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I cant seem to see it :S. It does say "Lord Chief Justice", but I can't seem to find it in the context of LCJCP. The oxford DNB and the 16-volume english legal history textbook i'm using for the CCP rewrite in my 'box both refer simply to a Chief Justice. Btw; are you British/American? If British there's a Wikipedia meetup in london on the 12th you're welcome to attend. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 22:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, fair enough. The british legal/peer system has always interested me; i've quietly sworn to become either a baronet or knight apellant (dont ask how i'm going to manage the second one) by the time I die if only for the funny hat. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 22:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * ... And there was me thinking of moving to canada. Maryland for me, baby! As far as i'm aware the issues are that 1) the King's banner has to be present on said field of battle and 2) it has to be issued directly by the king, I believe. I'm sure you could get round the first, but the second might be an issue. And jousting is wonderful, I used to do a lot of horse riding and shooting, so riding towards something and accurately pointing a big lump of wood and metal is my metiér :P. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 22:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh fun. Since my plan is american coffee-waitress related (read:barrister) I'm sure if I get to a high enough position I could do something. Common Law documents such as the Magna Carta require that the High Courts sit at a particular location, but dont specify where; I could always move it to maryland for the weekend and issue a writ of summons for said earl. Alternately under the current government I could simply donate 50-60K to the ruling party and get a peerage that way :P. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 22:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I havent, I'm not a Serjeant at Law :P. I'd hate to be one as well; the traditional investiture ceremonies were fiendishly expensive. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 23:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, sorry, just got that if you meant the place; never, i'm a second year Politics student. The plan is to do a CPE once I get out; I didn't decide I wanted to be a barrister until far too late. <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 23:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey there
Checked your email? <b style="color:#D3D3D3">Ir</b><b style="color:#A9A9A9">on</b><b style="color:#808080">ho</b><b style="color:#696969">ld</b><b style="color:#000">s</b> 00:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Per your sherrif work
If you have access to the ODNB they have over two thousand articles relating to sheriffs. I'll be working on them myself, but given that it'll take me 2-3 years to get through them all you might want to take a look :). Ironholds (talk)
 * On that topic you might want to check out the Searing table-pain here. Ironholds (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Order of the Bath
Hi, I see you've added the names of the current officers of the Order of the Bath to the article. Would you possibly be able to add an inline citation with your source? Thanks, Dr pda (talk) 09:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding the ref. Dr pda (talk) 09:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have learned something new today. Thank you. How many Ushers of the [colour] rod are there? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Black Rod for the Order of the Garter, Green Rod for the Order of the Thistle, (Irish) Black Rod for the Order of St Patrick, Scarlet Rod for the Order of the Bath, Blue Rod for the Order of St Michael and St George and Purple Rod for the Order of the British Empire. I think there also used to be an hereditary usher of the White Rod who had some connection with the Scottish Parliament. Dr pda (talk) 09:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There was (is) it's a saleable heritable office presently owned by the Walker Trustees (see wiki itself) the Imperial Society of Knights Bachelor has some more details as well about the office trying to charge knights fees. I seem to remember a Rod for the Guelphic order existed but my brain is old and tired ;/ AllsoulsDay (talk) 10:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is why I expanded Gentleman Usher. I believe that's the complete list of Ushers of Rods; I don't think the Guelphic Order had an usher, perhaps because it was technically a Hanoverian order. Dod's Manual of Dignities (1843) assigns it a Chancellor, Vice-Chancellor, Secretary, King-of-Arms, Genealogist, and Registrar. Choess (talk) 15:51, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

High Sheriff of Merionethshire
Hey, saw you'd been gazetting this up; is there any chance you could make this list a priority? I've just finished a bio of a Merioneth High Sheriff and I'm not quite sure where to put him (Charles Ansell). Ironholds (talk) 08:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Didn't know it was expensive; similar to Serjeants-at-law, then. In my time working on Chief Justice articles i've seen people practically fleeing from investiture due to the cost of the ceremony. Ironholds (talk) 15:26, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and per your edit summary on AGA; yes, that's the correct link. Didn't put it in, silly me. Ironholds (talk) 15:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Suggestion: I'll go nip down to the law library now and see if I can get any information on High Sheriffs. Not sure if i'll find anything massive, but Holdsworth's "A history of the English Legal System in 16 volumes" should have something (just look at the title!). Ironholds (talk) 15:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh, fun! I've so far found a few tidbits; a sheriff was perfectly entitled to kill any man resisting arrest, for example. I'll wait a few minutes to turn anything else up as to let you include your stuff without edit conflicts. Ironholds (talk) 20:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Holdsworth volume I has oodles of information on the historic information; would you mind if I rearranged things so you have origin, history, historic duties, and then all the gubbins applicable today? Ironholds (talk) 20:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. Apologies for the lack of action on the High Sheriff article; I've found a lot of info on the history/power but I'm hashing out some RL work atm. Ironholds (talk) 22:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also (sorry for the glut of messages) do you have access to any of the Selden Society's work? I was going through one of my law libraries (limited) collection and stumbled across a complete set of Justices of the Common Bench for 1480 to 1550-odd, as well as corresponding records for the various Prothonotaries and Clerks. I'm going to create a List of... page for the Justices when I have the time; if you have records from other periods that'd be most helpful. Ironholds (talk) 12:44, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair does :). I've emailed the Selden Society asking for details on what books contain what, so that might make any searches easier. The High Sheriff bits I'll work on tomorrow (or today, technically). Ironholds (talk) 00:28, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Out of interest, by the way; other than a longer intro and some referencing, can you think of anything that could stop me turning Chief Justice of the Common Pleas into a Featured List? Ironholds (talk) 00:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good idea, thanks. I'm going to get the List of Stewards of the Manor of Northstead up to that as well; I'm sure you can cop a Featured claim with it considering you did a lot of cleaning up. Ironholds (talk) 01:41, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Saw some of that on my watchlist; fantastic work :). I'm going to finish off the Chief Justice page tonight (thanks for the Supreme Court link) and put them both up on FL together. Ironholds (talk) 14:26, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Clerk of the Treasurer
Looking into it now; I'm going to write an article/list on the CB ones. The Clerk of the Treasury controlled access to the plea rolls, year books and other general records; he charged officials for looking at them and woe betide you if you didn't know the precise book/leaf or he'd charge you a search fee, too. For this reason he was known as the "clerk of hell", which I think would make a good DYK at some point. Ironholds (talk) 03:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, do you know how to make a table entry appear in multiple rows? If you look at List of Justices of the Court of Common Pleas you'll see what I mean; I need to make it so a justice who served through 12 changes appears once instead of twelve times. Ironholds (talk) 03:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Possibly, I'll look it up. Holdsworth had a bit on various positions, and the Selden Society text I'm reading now has a load too. It isn't court specific; it has a load on the King's Bench and Exchequer of Pleas. I'm hoping I can get those articles and their various lists up to the CP level. Ironholds (talk) 03:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair does, speak soon. One final question (you might pick it up tomorrow instead); do you know anyone good with images? I've found a diagram of where various officials would sit in the King's Bench and I need someone to (eventually) wikify it. Ironholds (talk) 03:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding in the rowspans. I fear I messed it slightly by adding in a load more justices near the end, but I'll sort it. Turns out from case records that towards the end the court was served by nine justices! Ironholds (talk) 18:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

De La Warr
Perhaps my entry was careless but your edit was at least as bad/worse. DLW did take his place in parliament so was a 'parliamentarian' leaving in '99. 'former' was the only change needed not removal. AllsoulsDay (talk) 16:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, it just seemed post '99 peerage distinction can't be assumed to be widely understood and probably noting parliamentary status avoids unecessary notability arguments down the line. AllsoulsDay (talk) 15:17, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

RE:A cautionary tale
Ahh, a sorta-mistake! I guess it's best to look for the gazette and outside sources; that way you get a bit of background to the information. In other news: I've been asked to submit an article about the Court of Common Pleas to a legal journal! Who says Wikipedia isn't good for something? Ironholds (talk) 01:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You should be fine :). And thanks; the really frustrating thing is that despite writing 3,500 words on the topic the Journal of Legal History requires an article to be published soley by them, so I need to write the bloody thing again! Ironholds (talk) 02:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Cuisine update
As you may have noticed, I've been expanding medieval cuisine quite a bit lately. I've bolstered references and finally gotten around to making a somewhat more detailed description of class differences and I've also tried to be more detailed when it comes to major developments in diet. I'll also add a long-missing section on eggs and dairy products (I actually can't believe that the article got past FAC without a dedicated cheese or milk section) and summarize the most important recipe collections.

I found your comments for the GA nomination extremely helpful and inspiring. If you feel anything is missing or unclear, please let me know on the talkpage. Oh, and if you have workable suggestions for how to broaden the article with the info I've mentioned while still keeping it below 70k, please let me know. I'm already worried that it'll hit 100k before I'm done with the latest round of additions.

Peter Isotalo 17:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for helping out once more! I addressed all of your comments in the last couple of edits. The vague statements have been re-worded, and it turned out that Adamson does mention "farce". When I wrote the original text, I just wasn't familiar with the term.
 * I'm not sure about the fermentation in the preservation section, though. Fermentation can be applied not just to milk, but to vegetables and meats, especially fish (the Northern Swedish surströmming comes to mind).
 * Peter Isotalo 12:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think fermentation belongs in the preservation section. Preserving milk by fermenting it into various products has historically been very important. I'm just guessing here, but it might be a matter of personal experience. Sweden has a wide variety of fermented dairy products that are still consumed today, and there have been various such products around since the 6th century or earlier. They're not identical to the historical milk products, but they are in large part a continuation of that tradition.
 * I've started a dairy section now, and I'll add info on eggs. I'm working on a section on cookbooks and cooks, but I just don't know how to fit it all in before the article starts getting huge, something I absolutely want to avoid. The biggest headache is that I can't really figure out how to move out material. Do you have any suggestion for appropriate sub-article titles? I can only come up with titles that are either too narrow or too broad in scope.
 * Peter Isotalo 15:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Sir Charles Lowther, 3rd Baronet
Good afternoon Choess ( as it is here). I have no problem with your changes. You clearly had sufficient info to justify the separate article and the Baronetcy article is a lot tidier as a resultOrdyg (talk) 13:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

John Salusbury
Well spotted, thanks for fixing that. I just moved the article out of the way to create a dab page, and the baronet convention seemed to be the one to follow. There are just too many "John Salusburys" around, so it's not surprising perhaps that someone got a bit muddled... Regards, BencherliteTalk 20:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey there
I've been working on the List of Stewards of the Manor of Northstead (making it sortable) and ran into a hitch; how the heck do you sort by last name? You seem rather knowledgeable about tables and such; any hints? Ironholds (talk) 06:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks for your help! You may be interested to know (after your time of tweaking the Justices themselves) that Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas hit FL a few days back :).Ironholds (talk) 15:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

No, I don't mind :P
WP:OWN covers sandboxen as well, in my opinion, and all your edits are nothing but quality. Still working on the High Sheriffs? Ironholds (talk) 01:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't see there being enough people to form a wikiproject; like law, it is one of those chronically underedited parts of the Wiki. We were discussing law on the wiki at the London wikimeet, actually; the general conclusion was that the reason it is so underedited is that the only people who know about it in detail are lawyers and lecturers, and when you've spent 8 hours applying the thing you're in no mood to write about it all evening. I see you've edited/created articles on monarchs of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia; I'm currently working on neatening up the list of them, mind looking over it once I'm done? Ironholds (talk) 02:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks :). It is proving a bit more difficult than I anticipated with all the co-ruling that got done. One bloke served for three terms, the third after having his eyes cauterised! Most of the exchequer writs should have ended in "...which is a great abuse", really; they had one designed specifically to take business away from the Common Pleas. They'd basically go "we want to try the case involving person X. Make up some crap about them owing us money and we can haul them in here". Ironholds (talk) 02:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well the writ of quominus (and the writ of westminster) backfired completely in the end. The exchequer/king's bench said "aha, now we can handle the common pleas cases!" and parliament went "oh, so you're all equal now? No need for three courts then, is there! Alright, sit around; we'll wait for two of the three chief justices to die and then you can all work together in one court, how does that sound?"
 * From reading the articles on the kings it certainly seems that the best way to live a long, happy life is to immediately abdicate. I'm done with the list now; you can find it here. I'm looking (in the end) to turn it into another pretty FL, but it needs to be spruced up; just now I can tell you it needs more referencing (which I can't seem to find) and (most likely) corrections to my grammar/speeling in the lead. Ironholds (talk) 02:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

List of Stewards of the Manor of Northstead
Note sure if you've seen but there is apparently an issue with refs not being complete. I'm working on them now; if you have some free time would you be able to do a few? If you don't already have it I'd advise enabling the RefTools; absolutely invaluable in proper citing. Ironholds (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Alrighty, I'll go from the top down and see where you've stopped. Does your local library not allow access? Ironholds (talk) 04:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

DB and lifetime templates
Could you please look at Redirects for discussion/Log/2008 November 22? I have objected to destructive editing by a bot which is deleting all the BD templates and providing birthdate, and death date categories with defaultsort without any discussion. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contribution. I have flagged this on various pages.  Unfortunately it has been removed (I think wrongly) from the History-related AFD page.  Do you know of any other regular users who are likely to use it?  If so, could you warn them? Peterkingiron (talk) 15:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Something you might find interesting
If you're still working on the High Sheriffs and Custos Rotorum (sp) I have a book you might find interesting; imaginitively titled "list of dignitaries" it has the appointees for most positions from 1066 to 18-something. I'll look for the CR/HS lists later and get started on uploading them; I'm just happy because there is also a complete list of Justices appointed to the CP and a book of biographies to boot (I'm having to talk my internal librarian down from the roof, however; what sort of librarian files historical legal texts in the 900's? Legal history is 340.9, not 947; they weren't appointed in world war 2). Anyhoo, thought you'd find it interesting if you're managing to get any wiki-work done between teaching. Ironholds (talk) 10:08, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Possibly; I didn't get the name (I'll check when I go over later). My problem is it doesn't say who is first, second, third etc justices. The book of biographies will, I expect, be more useful. Ironholds (talk) 11:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just checked; indeedy, it is Haydn's work. The problem might be due to spelling differences (I noticed he spelt the names of various CJ's wrong) so you could try variations on guarden. Ironholds (talk) 13:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the Williamsport and North Branch Railroad article again. Would it make sense to link to the PennDOT historic maps of Sullivan County (1915) and Lycoming County (1916) in some way - external links, perhaps? They are old enough to be PD and could perhaps be used in some way in the article. If you want I can try to get a picture of the former depot in Pennsdale some time. Finally, thanks for cleaning up the bridge image categories for the images I took on Commons. Happy Thanksgiving, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the good wishes. I went to Pennsdale a while ago and got pictures of the Friends Meeting House there (external only), which I still have to upload to Commons. I will try to get there and find the old depot before the new year. I am glad you fixed the categories on Commons - it was one of those things I knew I should do but had not gotten around to. Take care and have a happy holiday, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I rotated the image by 2.5 degrees and uploaded that version. I also have a closeup of the front and sign reading "Pennsdale" if you want me to upload that. Also got some snow pictures of Sonestown Covered Bridge, so Dincher can stop doing his snow dance ;-). I wasn't sure where in the article you wanted the image, hence the note on the talk page. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Williamsport and North Branch Railroad

 * Nice work. Dincher (talk) 20:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, thanks again and congrats Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Remainders
Thanks for checking on Atholl.Tbh looking the remainders all the key Scottish Dukedoms are missing. Some are easy enough but I'm not sure if some can even be explained - you probably have to be a genius to be certain of montrose - and some have different remainders for almost all of subsidiary their titles. Perhaps I should raise this at project peerage AllsoulsDay (talk) 12:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguations
Hi. Thanks for disambiguating the link to Enfield in Rich Baronets. Could you do a few more? Daniel Cresswell (died at home while Vicar of Enfield but it seems the vicarage was in Southgate?), John Gallacher, Charles Cadogan, 2nd Earl Cadogan. --Una Smith (talk) 04:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I have copied this exchange to Talk:Enfield. --Una Smith (talk) 16:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

RE: move
crud, sorry :S. I'll reverse it now.Ironholds (talk) 02:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice! I've moved back to MP's for a bit (I'm going to get the Chiltern Hundreds article up to FL to match the Northstead one) but after that I'm going to work on Sheriffs for a bit as well. I'm going to use the ODNB for the date listings; for the pre-19th century ones they're the most accurate records available to me.Ironholds (talk) 03:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh fun, thanks! I've decided to complete the list first and then write reasoning, but that will indeed be helpful. Ironholds (talk) 09:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Lots more
Re this: ...and, even within New York State, the Genesee, and even the Rhine arguably flows north. Sheesh ... you'd think people would read the text in articles right next to what they're adding.

Maybe we should have a List of rivers that flow north, because this myth is so common. Daniel Case (talk) 17:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Henry de Burgh, 1st Marquess of Clanricarde
Thepeerage.com claims he was Custos Rotulorum of County Galway, something the WP listings of CR's seems to have missed (the existence of a CR for County Galway, that is). Know anything about it? Ironholds (talk) 17:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair does. I'll try and use my uni's rare book collection (all historical archives and peerage-related stuff) to find something. Thanks anyway.Ironholds (talk) 19:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping fill in the spaces in the articles I've been writing, by the way. Stewards of the Manor of Northstead went to Featured; I'm suprised not to see a little star up on your userpage! Ironholds (talk) 15:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh, interesting; I'll include that somewhere when I have a moment free (lots of work, blegh). You still did quite a bit of the work with referencing and writing in the "reasons" and so on, and if not in the article proper you chasing up and fiddling with the stubs created for MPs should really count. Ironholds (talk) 15:11, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

University of Leicester problem
No doubt your failure to note how your University of Leicester edit went awry was a rare oversight, but i figured there was a chance you'd profit by looking back to see how it could happen. --Jerzy•t 02:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Sir Stuart Samuel MP
Thanks for doing this merge. Cheers --Graham Lippiatt (talk) 20:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Denzil Onslow (of Pyrford)
Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 20:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've left another response to your nomination; sorry it's taken so long for anyone to comment. Could you suggest any alternate hooks? &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 15:05, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Railroads to work on
Congrats on getting your grades in - I am sure it is a good feeling ;-) . I would like to get Lycoming Creek to FA in 2009, so perhaps an expansion of Elmira and Williamsport Railroad would be useful. I even have a DYK hook in mind for it - DYK ... that the Elmira and Williamsport Railroad along Lycoming Creek was the 12th railroad chartered in Pennsylvania, but the first to go bankrupt? I have Taber's book, need to check that it was the 12th chartered. If you would rather work on modern lines, the Robey railroads all could use work. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Mistress of the Robes
Just to consult you on this; getting this list to Featured status is (one) of my next projects; do you think consolidating it into one standardised table (with a "queen" column to differentiate between them all) would be all right? Ironholds (talk) 15:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)