User talk:Bishonen/Archive 16

Back with improvements
Thank you all visitors to this page over the past month very much for all the kind messages and kind thoughts. The page archive referring to this time is a delight! This is to let you know that I'm at least semi-back, and greatly improved too, with a fine new major spare part. (What a world, where such things are possible.) I see it's about time, too. Poor Lady C, much honoured for her efforts, is obviously starting to unravel, or burn out, or whatever the current idiom is for nervous exhaustion. No wonder! I understand that her butler/chauffeur whatever-his-name-is-at-the-moment is, even as I post this message, driving her down to a beautiful secluded luxury clinic in the depths of Devon, with a superior twelve-step program. It sounds quite perfect for a lovely long rest cure (I selected it myself). Thank you all again! Improved Bishonen | talk 20:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC).
 * Welcome back! Nikkimaria (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Excellent news, great to see your name on my watchlist again. (and I don't have to change SOLVED). --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yay! LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Brill. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that discussing one's health and "parts" (new or otherwise) in public is deeply downmarket - I wash my hands completely of Mrs Bishonen. I have never known such ingratitude in all my life. The Countess of Scrotum (De facto) (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back Bishonen! Thank you for the wonderful news! Take care. And since I know that this strange little Cathy lady is hopelessly myopic and cannot read this, I want to congratulate you for not only escaping from the torture of her decrepit cruise ship but also for putting her in the sanatorium. Well done! P.S. Don't forget to throw away the key. Dr.X. Anonymous mode  21:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, dr anon. I'm a little nonplussed to see, above, that they've apparently let her out; how did that happen? Or, I know: perhaps she's merely editing from a "smartphone" or similar device that she has somehow managed to smuggle in. I shall speak to the management and make it clear that such distractions can only delay the unfortunate dear's restoration to full health, which I expect will (sadly) take quite a while anyway. Improved Bishonen | talk 22:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC).
 * Thank you Bishonen. I agree. Let's hope that the Ka of Khufu guides her. These grand-ole dames are typically incorrigible. One can only hope that after years of intensive treatment she may finally be able to glimpse some semblance of normalcy. But given her record of delusions of grandeur this is more easily said than done. I can only pray for her poor dependants, the butler and the chauffeur. Dr.X. Anonymous mode 23:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd settle for the Ka of Cthulhu. Improved Bishonen | talk 00:20, 18 October 2011 (UTC).
 *  Great form! Thank you. Take care.:) Dr.X. Anonymous mode 00:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Delighted to see your you're semi-back! Not to mention your health and "parts", which no lady would do. Not of course that I'm claiming to be a Lady, but on the Internets no-one knows you're a ....... um, tetrapod? . . dave souza, talk 22:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Dave. "Your semi-back"? That must refer to the type of dress worn by Lady C at the charivaris and other orgies festivities at the Pallazzo Splendido: a cherished, even though faintly nauseating, memory! Improved Bishonen | talk 23:37, 17 October 2011 (UTC).
 * Ah, beat me to the punch! It does indeed bring back memories of the old eye, a slogan all but lost to indelicate history. Them wuz the daze. . dave souza, talk 20:33, 18 October 2011 (UTC) Aha! Found a pic! dave souza, talk 20:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm really glad to see this. Cheers. :) MastCell Talk 23:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, MC. But have you seen this? I suggest you vote on the talkpage, lest they come for us in the night. Improved Bishonen | talk 23:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC).


 * Whoooot !!!! - Wonderful to have you back, Chère --RexxS (talk) 23:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * 美少年回来了！ It's good to have you back! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Bishzilla has been disconsolate in your absence-- I think she's hungry-- but we're glad to see you (we, of course, is anyone who matters on the internet). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Sandy. I'm quite worried about Bishzilla. Some of the socks can fend for themselves, no doubt (I don't suppose the family that adopted the darwinbish ever realized how lucky they were that she merely bit them and ran away), but Bishzilla is a sensitive soul… or, no… no, she's not. But she has a certain strain of reverence for authority (utterly missing in the darwinbish), especially as represented by Lady C. This link, posted by Lady C herself earlier, shows the consequences of Lady C (I must say, a little thoughtlessly) putting up all the socks for adoption. Naturally, Bishzilla was adopted within the hour by an ecstatic small boy. She was last seen glumly padding after him, at something of a loss, as you may imagine, and her dignity much impaired. Please send out rescue parties!  Improved Bishonen | talk 18:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC).


 * Very fine news; welcome back. Antandrus (talk) 02:20, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, Antandrus... lately swallowed whole by the darwinbish, illustrating the dangers of fraternising or indeed coming too close. I still can't fathom how she achieved such a feat, even for a moment. Are you extremely small, Antandrus? Or is it possible that the db is actually getting bigger, out of pure meanness? There's a thought to stop the clocks. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and so on. Please say you're unusually small of stature, Antandrus! Improved Bishonen | talk 18:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC).
 * I've never met Antandrus, but he edits like he's at least 6-foot-4. MastCell Talk 18:51, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well exactly! I feel that too. That's why this incident is so frightening. Db has to be either a lot bigger than anybody supposed, or almost infinitely elastic. One doesn't like to think about either possibility, really. Improved Bishonen | talk 21:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC).
 * In our local mountains, I once watched a snake swallow an entire trout. Fortunately, Db spared me the trout's fate, although I have a distinct memory of being taller (or maybe it was just my hair your Carboniferous pet devoured? I've wondered where it has gone).  Like everyone on the internet, (everyone important, anyway), I am above-average in stature.  Some days I can even reach the keyboard. Antandrus  (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I had a brain transplant and I'm still editing..so get to work!!!MONGO 19:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Woot! This calls for a celebration! (how do you "improve" on Bishonen????) KillerChihuahua ?!? 19:50, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that this has all gone on long enough! Are we to start celebrating the return of every invalid with firworks and what not? Is every ingrowing toenail to be lauded and feted? To discusss one's health is vulgar - I have suffered may replacement parts without comment, fuss and complaint. While I am sure Mr Souza's very colourful chrysanthemums (right) are appreciated ( at least, by Mrs Bishonen and those sort of peope who like coloured flowers ) I really feel we can dispense with all these tributes now and allow Mrs Bishonen who continue with her writing and work here - we don't want to over excite the invalid - do we? The Countess of Scrotum (De facto) (talk) 21:25, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey now, those were my colorful fireworks, there. I'm guessing in spite of all your replacements, they still haven't found a working heart for you, then? KillerChihuahua ?!? 21:32, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I am very sorry dear, but you were misled in the shop, they are quite clearly chrysanthemums, and what's more you should not give invalids flowers as it deprives the sick room of oxygen (or some such gas) and causes the patient to suffocate. I always prefer a nice bottle of wine. The Countess of Scrotum (De facto) (talk) 21:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think you understand the situation here KC. Her majesty classifies as a Ka. She has no corporeal substance. Her Ka resides in the same burial chamber as Kufu's at the yet undiscovered bottom of his great pyramid. In addition her statements are the product of intense education at the world's most exclusive private schools where she excelled in all subjects but in particular proper manners and etiquette. Can you not discern her superior and subtle intellect as reflected in her delicate comments? You didn't see me here Anonymous mode 21:49, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, gotcha. So, no heart then. No brain, either. :-) KillerChihuahua ?!? 21:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course not. At least not in the way mere mortals understand these things. :) You didn't see me here Anonymous mode 22:00, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Welcome back! –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 00:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Mr Chihuahua, I am not quite sure whether you in your exultation alluded to Mr Mongo's frivolous comment, but in that case, the spelling should be "ceRebration". Respectfully, Swedophile (talk) 10:38, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I too am very glad to see you back, and wish you a continued recovery. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't misunderstand me, I too am more than delighted to see poor little Mrs Bishonen back; I just hope that she's not been sufocated by all these flowers and peculier people - I don't trust half of them - that puppy woman for instance - nasty, yappy little dogs are Chihuahuas never trust a little man or a little dog, I always say; and as for that Dr Kiernan - well enough said - nothing to admire about the medical profession - all this just "slip your clothes off and I'll examine you" - I know their kind and their ulterior motives, and those that don't have ulterior motives are butchers wanting to swop body parts about - poor little Mrs Bishonen went in with a mere soar throat, and has come out with a head transplant - even her own mother doesn't recognise her - where is it all going to end? The Countess of Scrotum (De facto) (talk) 20:48, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Your Majesty with all due respect I want to point out that regretfully you have got my name wrong. Also, although a Dr., I am not a medical one. So rest assured the only contact we will ever experience, if at all, is through my prayers that your ethereal Ka may leave us in peace find its rightful place among the other great Kas at oblivion Ka-rnak. Dr.X. Anonymous mode 21:37, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * That's excellent news, Bish, particularly that you survived the tender mercies of Lady Catherine de Scrotum Rollbacker (Senior Health Care Professional). Lady Catherine, should I ever require a strong, handsome, muscular, male professional live-in nurse, I trust I may call upon your services recommendation. SlimVirgin  TALK |  CONTRIBS 16:02, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I see I'm late to the party, but it's a relief and a joy to see you back. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:08, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * So cool to see you on my page again, Bunch! :-) Bishonen | talk 00:05, 26 October 2011 (UTC).


 * [Bishzilla is overjoyed.] Is little nominator ! Come sit in pocket, Bunchofgrapes! [Fondly stuffs the little user in her pocket.]   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    00:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC).

Geogre
As you are an editor who has participated in previous discussions on the same or closely related topics, I though that WP:CANVASS would allow me to bring this: to your attention (and those of the TPWs). Naturally, this is a neutrally worded notification intended only "to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus", and anything that you may find at User:RexxS should not be construed as intended to influence your views in any way. --RexxS (talk) 12:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Mmm. Gosh, that's one ugly pic. No, I don't think I'm ready to go on the warpath on its behalf, and I'm sure Geogre himself doesn't care. I thought for just a moment there that you meant someone had MfD'd User:Geogre/Comic. Now that I'd defend with my dying breath. Improved Bishonen | talk 17:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC).
 * I think it's a delightful portrait; it reminds me of my cousin Dippy's engagement portrait on the frontispiece of Country Life, such a beautiful girl. The Countess of Scrotum (De facto) (talk) 21:38, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Speaking of portraits, just re-read a delightful pen-portrayal of an episode in the life of Lord Monckton's retainer, any relation? . . dave souza, talk 21:35, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * A "wrinkled retainer" named you-know-what? Interesting. That'll be either the man himself, or his father. Anyway, do keep it out of Lady C's way if you possibly can; the ancient lineage of the blue you-know-what blood is one of the mainstays of her poise. It figgers out very well, except for the bewildering statement that you-know-who "seldom swore". I can't resolve that one.. but perhaps the author added it at random, just to fill out his somewhat trite style with the usual ballast. (P. S, I went on to enjoy the Danish tale: " “Scrøtum! Where åre my bøøts?” Excellent stuff.) Improved Bishonen | talk 01:02, 23 October 2011 (UTC).

Bishzilla
I have just intercepted a radio transmission from the Port of London Authority. It appears they have received reports of a "very large gecko" swimming about under Tower Bridge, and have sent one of their speediest craft, the salvage vessel "Crossness", to recover the poor critter. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Elen, could you please contact the salvage vessel somewhat urgently and alert them to the possibility of a little boy being towed after the gecko, holding on to a leash? He would be a mere dot in the context, and mostly underwater at that, but this could be simply Bishzilla's affectionate adopter taking his new pet for some water exercise. I worry about the marine services accidentally hurting him or worse. P.S. Recover her with that? How do they figure? It's practically a dinghy.  Bishonen with room for improvements | talk 09:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC).
 * Have spoken with the River police. Apparently Bishzilla decided that the Crossness and her sister ship the  Hookness had been provided as bath toys, and has spent the last few hours playing with them. The working cranes were particularly gratifying - hopefully they are not completely beyond repair. The RNLI lifeboat out of Chiswick Pier has happily rescued the crews, and the London Fire Brigade has recovered Bishzilla's young custodian from his perch on a stanchion of Westminster Bridge, where it appears 'zilla had temporarily (mis)placed him. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That image caption was rather confusing to me, as I'm used to "PLA" standing for something rather different. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 13:39, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The solution to all Wikipedia's problems
Hi Bishonen, the template that i added was intended as a joke; in response to your "indignation". (i thought someone might remove it though :)

- Benzband (talk) 15:29, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh I see. Cool. :-) In itself it's a destructively humour-deprived thing, and much too much in-your-face. I've seen it used in all seriousness so many times that I reacted on autopilot, I guess. Sorry to have underestimated you, Benzband! Improved Bishonen | talk 21:37, 20 October 2011 (UTC).

OMG my sister's getting bigger out of pure meanness!
Help me! [''Little Darwinfish flees, fleet of foot. Huge Darwinbish gallumphs after him, but is fortunately somewhat hampered by her size. ''] darwin fish 23:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC).



Don't worry, little Fish, you had a nightmare, that's all. I checked on Darwinbish, and she's her usual size. Or, at least.. well, she definitely resumed her usual size after I stared her down some. She may have a certain ability to induce scary hallucinations, then, but I'm pretty sure she can't actually become huge. Improved Bishonen | talk 15:04, 22 October 2011 (UTC).

Very belated get-well message
Delighted you're on the pathway back to full editing duties. I think of those American war posters with a difference ... "Wikipedia needs you". Tony  (talk)  08:39, 23 October 2011 (UTC) Oh dear Tony, wrong on both accounts. The rose cultivar was bred by W. Kordes' Sons in Germany; the poster is a British one, later ripped off by the Yanks. Good to have you back, Bishonen. From a pedantic lurker.
 * Thank you both very much. Enjoy my being sweet and nice(-ish) while you may, it's drawing to an end! I'm heading rapidly back to fully recovered and as disagreeable as ever. Bishonen | talk 15:05, 23 October 2011 (UTC).



To be serious
I'm very worried about Orangemarlin. I e-mailed him before my own health break, and got no reply. I hope he has merely beaten the addiction and sauntered off to enjoy himself. Anybody got any (non-classified) information, please tell me here, or by e-mail if that's more appropriate. Antandrus? Hans? Risker? Bishonen | talk 23:00, 23 October 2011 (UTC).
 * Just mailing you. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:06, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I also worry about him; anyone willing to share please e-mail me, if he's indicated that's OK. Antandrus (talk) 23:11, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've received word, emailing you Ant. KillerChihuahua ?!? 23:35, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Same here, thanks much. KillerChihuahua ?!? 23:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you as well. Antandrus (talk) 00:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

 * Bishapod, get out of there right now! It's for me ! Sigh.. gone. Lemme explain something to you, you  little sock! If a cupcake is for you it'll be delivered to your talkpage, get it? Bishonen | talk 19:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC).


 * [Bishapod slinks off, elated, not ashamed. Licking his chops. ]  bish a pod   splash!  19:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC).


 * And you're using a fork now, Pod? What's that about? Bishonen | talk 19:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC).
 * It is a multi toothpick, obviously... LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Too big for sis's sharp little teeth. That's clearly a POV fork!  darwin fish 16:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC).
 * (Yet another pedantic joke from the twin with the nerdy sense of fun. Try to smile, everybody, the Fish has confidence issues! And sig coding issues.. Rex, help, what happen?)
 * "[Bishapod slinks off, elated, not ashamed. Licking his chops. ]" ... so I'm guessing that the use of chop sticks will be next? Glad the health issues got resolved Ms. Bishonen. :) — Ched :  ?  17:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It was a good joke and DF needs to be encouraged. The font changes don't work properly if they go across a link or , so DF needs something like this:
 * which produces:
 * darwin fish 16:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hopefully that will fix the problem for him. --RexxS (talk) 17:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Work good, thank you Rex! And look, I now have e-mail enabled, did that myself! :-) [Faintly embarrassed, DF makes a daring new departure: ] Us nerds a brotherhood, help each other! Please let me know if I can resolve some coding issue for you, mr Rex! Any time! darwin fish 19:34, 9 November 2011 (UTC).
 * How do you nerd a brotherhood? Introduce Masons to computer geeks? LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How do you nerd a brotherhood? Introduce Masons to computer geeks? LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
I've just found this dreadful thing at the top of my task bar and immediatly thought of you - this is the most horrible looking one

Giacomo Returned 18:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC) <br style="clear: both"/>

PS: Oh I see now, I have to wikilove it from your taskbar not mine. This is all too stressful. What sort of person goes about sending pictures of other people's kittens to each other anyway? Fucking stupid! Giacomo Returned 19:05, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh noes, not that kitten! That's darwinbish's evil kitten! She's been training it as her personal lifeguard and torpedo ever since Jehochman thoughtlessly sent it to her. Notice the threatening posture, the fur standing on end like quills upon the fretful porpentine, the sharp little teeth. That's a dangerous kitten.


 * You sent it to yourself? Chortle.. :-D Just one of its evil tricks! Watch out, it's lurking in your history even as we do speak! Bishonen | talk 19:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC).


 * P.S. Ha, I've got rid of its sekrit wormhole in my taskbar! "To disable WikiLove, go to the editing tab in your preferences, and uncheck the box next to "Enable showing appreciation for other users with the WikiLove tab (experimental)" under Labs features. Then click Save." Bishonen | talk 19:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC).

Redwoods
Hi Bishonen...hope you're recovering well. Thank you for keeping vigil over the Redwood National and State Parks article...I saw the vandalism but during business hours here in ever exciting Omaha, Nebraska, USA, all I have is my glacially slow Blackberry...so about all I can do is leave a talkpage comment or two...BTW...the short article I did about the 2011 Oklahoma earthquake is currently at DYK on the mainpage...I started the article after feeling the tremor many hundreds of miles from the epicenter...thanks again!MONGO 17:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha. Yeah I thought I'd better cover for Frutti, he seems to be on a bit of a break.. considering the names the little rascal put in — names of classmates, perhaps? — I thought it better reverted promptly. Good earthquake article, and it sounds like a good earthquake, too! Not least, it's got far and away the best hook currently on the mainpage. (I stared unbelievingly at the musical one for a few moments. Words fail me.) Is it yours? Bishonen | talk 17:38, 16 November 2011 (UTC).
 * Well, thank you! Actually my last DYK was immediately rejected as a hoax! That was weird...all it stated was that DYK....that Bigfoot is actually an interplanetary space beast who has a palatial mansion well hidden within Redwood National and State Parks? One reviewer said that was preposterous...another threatened to block me for "vandalizing"....geez, of all the nerve!MONGO 18:19, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Princess Maria Amélia of Brazil
Hello, Bishonen. Could you be kind and tell me what are the "other problems besides the prose" in Princess Maria Amélia of Brazil? Regards, --Lecen (talk) 14:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'm a slow writer, as MONGO knows, but I'll cc you my message to him, once I get it written. (I'm using e-mail for my observations because the FAC procedure is over and done with.) Bishonen | talk 20:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC).
 * Look at my talk page. On the top and at the far right of "User talk:Lecen" you'll see the small icon that you can use to send me an e-mail. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 12:24, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Mhm, right. So I can, and so can you. I'm a little surprised that you asked me for a favour and then ignored my request that you send an e-mail from the Wiki interface, thus providing your address, so that I could more easily forward my existing mail to you. For all I know, it may be too long for wiki e-mailing, also. Would it be simpler if I posted my comments publicly? Bishonen | talk 20:55, 18 November 2011 (UTC).
 * Since you told me that you wanted to send me a copy of the e-mail I thought it would be easier to you to send me directly through here. I was not trying to make anything harder for you. On the contrary. You can also post it here. Whatever suits you best. --Lecen (talk) 21:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Love in a Tub
Hi Bishonen, A long time ago (in 2004), you introduced an image (File:Love in a Tub.png) from George Etherege's play Love in a Tub, which is used in particular in Restoration comedy. For the time being, I'm editing its equivalent in French (fr:Comédie de la Restauration anglaise), but, unfortunately, this picture is only available inside English Wikipedia. I didn't want to bother you, and I browsed extensively Internet in order to find your source. In vain... It would be very kind of you to put this image in Commons or give me your source ? Regards — Please answer at Talk to Papier K — Papier K (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've replied on your French page. Bishonen | talk 01:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC).
 * Thank you Bishonen for your answer ☺  . I hoped you got this picture from an old book. If it comes from a modern one, I don't think it would be fit for acceptance in Wikipedia nowadays, even if this picture is, in all likelihood according to its style, a frontispiece of an eighteenth-century edition. I got several of them in downloaded free books (The Double Dealer, The Beaux' Stratagem, The Rehearsal), and I strongly hoped it was such the case. Too bad ! — Papier K (talk) 04:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Queluz National Palace
Hi Bishonen. This was unintentional. I've been trying to correct a string of problematic edits by. They're recurring problems and since I've explained a number of my reverts on his talk page, I don't write detailed explanations on each talk page. I just wanted to revert prior to his addition of a gallery on Queluz National Palace and assumed that your edit was a partial revert of his. Cheers, Pichpich (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you!
[Swig swig swig, burp.] Thank you very much, NWA! I could easily disprove all those zany statements, but that would be ungracious, wouldn't it? :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 20:35, 26 November 2011 (UTC).

Giano wanted to send you a treat
... but seems to have forgotten. Here it is anyway. --Famously Sharp (talk) 01:43, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, the very thing to make my beer relish, thanks Famously! Mind you, the real deal is delicious Swedish decomposing herring (surströmming); not some weird Laotian fish. Bishonen &#124; talk 14:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC).

<br style="clear:both" />

Featured article review for The Relapse
nominated The Relapse for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Brad (talk) 17:04, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * [[File:Bishzilla blink right.gif]]

Bah! Tex (talk) 14:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Bah indeed. Thanks for comments regarding my own dreadful prose and use of peacock terms; I cannot comment on yours because I was not aware that your prose and vocabulary was so dreadful. Anyway, Hans seems to be doing a sterling job on your behalf in that dreadful place. I'm afraid that what they want is some muddled writing by 49 editors of varying education and nationality which then gets sort of shaken about in a bag to give an impression that Wikipedia has a vague idea understanding of the subject which it's supposed to be covering. Taling of prose, I was quite suprised to see Ms Boomer uses the word "gotten" - when I was learning to write English there was a list of words which we apparently alright to say, but were never, never ever to be written, but then again it seems that most native English speakers never do learn to write their own language properly. I wish I could rmemeber all the words in that list - "get, got, gotten..." and on it went, until one rhymingly arrived at that perfectly inofensive word "nice" which presumably showed that one was deeply down market and lacking in vocabulary. Strange lot the English speaking world - I wonder who would know what that list is or was - I must ask around. Giacomo Returned 10:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't bother "Bah!"ing unless you are a star collector (or star hoarder I suppose). On the plus side List of former featured articles with the subtitle "Virtue in Danger" may soon be able to join its indomitable sister article (you know which one I mean). Or even better, Bish could give us a repeat of the official "best archive ever". Yomangani talk 14:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha, Yo man, I'd forgotten about that 2007 thread. I do believe its header has stood the test of time. :-) Giacomo, thank you very much, but please give over quoting what you were told in school in 1805; "gotten" is perfectly cromulent in informal written English, such as the English written in Wikipedia space. In American written English in Wikipedia space it may well be the preferred form. Not so much in mainspace, I agree.
 * Hans is brilliant at that kind of thing, isn't he? I felt I understood the article better myself after he'd chimed in. :-) Anyway. Don't you agree, Giacomo, that whenever you're drawn into posting on FAR, you come to regret it? I know I do, but never more than this time. There was nothing wrong with the nomination, I thought (except that incomprehensible "reads like a review", which might indeed have alerted me). So I took hours to write a response to it, with various good-faith and good-will suggestions for updating the referencing (yes, suggestions for doing it myself, I wouldn't seriously expect anybody else to). And all I got from the nominator for my trouble was a pie in the face. Oh well. I suppose it's nobody's fault but my own that I'm such a slow worker. Or that I was too stupid to check out the nominator's driveby tagging of the article, because that is truly ... out of the way. That would have alerted me. Linking to WP:SOAP? I wonder if he thinks I wrote the play myself, or some friend of mine did? Clearly I'm most un-encyclopedically keen to promote it, anyway. Surely an article like that ought to be proposed for deletion rather than merely de-featuring? Bishonen &#124; talk 20:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Oh! I thought you had written the play yourself. I don't understand all this medical terminology, I thought you did. I've never had a days illness in my life - apart from my "problem." Giacomo Returned 21:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh! Well, don't worry too much about your problem. You're containing it by sticking to Italian wines, aren't you? I've been credibly informed that those don't cause intoxication. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC).
 * It seems that Billy Connolly would not share your credulity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKMQKgSnGy8 . Cin cin & Skål --RexxS (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Special thanks for the Dutch subtitles, which added further flavour. :-) But as for my credulity, not so; please see my edit summary ! Bishonen &#124; talk 23:07, 6 December 2011 (UTC).

Apology
I apologise for not placing my comments in a section of their own, but they were not "badgering" remarks. So while I take your point, I don't like removal of comments I have made myself (which were made under provocation) by an editor on another editors talk-page, even if it was not meant to be so, it comes across as slightly nannyish, and you could have asked "do you have to poke someone back?" which would have described things more accurately. Can I take it that you think fairness and understanding both sides is a good thing? If so then could you make that more apparent in your comments. Other editors have had a lot to put up with also. In any event I had offered an apology to OM (on Boris's talk page) to defuse tension (though as far as I am aware it hasn't as yet been been acknowledged or accepted) .DMSBel (talk) 17:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr
User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  09:41, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edit
The page you linked to in your edit summary reads: "The Wikipedia community strongly discourages simulating the MediaWiki interface, except on the rare occasion when it is necessary for testing purposes." ... "Inappropriate internal or external links that unexpectedly direct the reader to unreasonable locations or violate prohibitions on linking may also be removed or remedied by any user." and finally "Joke "You have new messages" notifications (the orange bar) are frowned upon by the community."

Therefore I think that the removal I performed is quite justified. Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 00:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Barts, "frowned upon" is not the same as "prohibited". You really haven't got much of a leg to stand on here (the link also doesn't go to an "unreasonable location"). I, for one, think the community should prohibit joke messages of this sort, as they're annoying as all get-out, but as yet it has not done so. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 00:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Bart, you need a good reason to mess with other people's userpages, and a really excellent reason to throw around words like "disruptive". It's not all right to be disrespectful to a user just because everybody else is getting on his case at the moment. There are actual people behind the wiki usernames, you know. In practically every case, well-meaning people. There is certainly no consensus to remove those banners, and the recent Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep makes it clear that fewer people than ever think they need to be removed. See also discussion on WT:USER. As for the compromise formulation in WP:USER about "frowning" on them: go ahead and frown, but don't remove. Please take example by how I didn't remove your comment on NWA's talkpage, even though I thought it a pointless and hurtful repetition of what a lot of other people have already said, and with an uncompromisingly silly header. (I'd recommend you to remove the comment yourself, though. It doesn't make you look good.) Bishonen &#124; talk 01:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Did you know that wikipedia is NOT pre-school? People need do be able to handle both the good and the bad. You do not need to hold their hand in order for them to stay here. Your comment of "It's not all right to be disrespectful to a user just because everybody else is getting on his case at the moment" doesn't make any sense considering that this user is SUPPOSED to be under an INCREDIBLE amount of scrutiny for EVERY action they make at the moment as an ArbCom nominee. If they erupt into allcaps rages over the usual arbcom nominee past digging then maybe they should not be standing in the first place! Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 01:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * (double ec's)Wow, fine cliché collection there. Have you really not noticed the arbcom election is over? Just stop messing with that page and save yourself a lot of grief. I'm done for tonight, it's very late where I am. I hope there are more eyes on this. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC).
 * PS, I see below that there are. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 01:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Bart, did you consult your mentor concerning this matter. I would recommend doing that first.— cyber power   ( X-Mas Chat )( Contrib. ) 01:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Barts, if Wikipedia is NOT pre-school, might I suggest you act more maturely? Bishonen is giving you good advice here. If you find you're unable to accept it, you should consider backing away from the situation. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Here is my perspective in case anyone wants it: (1) I agree with Bishonen that removing stuff from other people's userspace is not OK just because it's "frowned upon", and I agree with Heimstern that joke message bars should be illegal, though unfortunately they are not. (2) As I just realised, NWA.Rep has the following statistics: 3 known accounts, 1 SNOW-closed RfA, 1 Arbcom case ending with sanctions (against himself and his opponent in a long-standing edit war), 5 net blocks and 1 joke Arbcom candidacy. (Editing statistics here. 9 edits to article (talk) space in 2011. 60 in 2010. 27 in 2009.) All that in the course of <4,500 edits, or slightly over 3,000 edits outside user (talk) space. If NWA.Rep were more active and had the same ratio, he would long have been banned. In fact, it's entirely possible that he has long been active under different personas, and has escaped the necessary site ban by switching between them simply because nobody realised it's always the same guy we are dealing with on ANI. By not showing such kids the door, we are creating an environment in which the really immature who alternate between vandalising and vandal fighting can rise to become incompetent admins who then block serious content contributors. On the German Wikipedia, "no discernible intent for encyclopedic collaboration" is a standard reason for indef blocks, often after a single-digit number of edits. I wish we would do this here as well. Hans Adler 02:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please don't coatrack a general complaint about NWA.Rep onto this discussion, Hans. If you think he needs to be banned, take it to WP:ANI or WP:RFC/U. You shouldn't weave socking accusations out of airy nothing on any forum, though. Or do you have any more concrete basis for them than your own belief that it's "entirely possible" that NWA has been active under different personas to escape a site ban? Do you have any possible sock/s/ in mind, with similar editing interests and style? I know him quite well — I've had many communications from him over a long time — and I've never seen anybody remotely DUCK-like to him discussed on ANI. I certainly don't think NWA is machiavellan enough to pretend to be "absent" while all the time disguising himself as someone with different speech habits and different hobby-horses. Anything but. He's hot-headed and says and does stupid stuff, including stuff against his own interests, when he's upset. That sort of thing never happened to Machiavelli's prince.
 * He has had a number of different account names, yes, but always afaik quite openly. They're not socks, they're consecutive. (I find the practice of changing account names now and then quite irritating, but lots of people do it, not excluding admins.) I agree that he's not one of our most useful editors, and if you think it's worth taking a ban proposal to the community, you may well get consensus for it. Be my guest. But I don't see the need to air hurtful random speculations in the process. (P.S. That wasn't a joke Arbcom candidacy. This is a joke Arbcom candidacy.) Bishonen &#124; talk 17:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Sorry. I see now that putting the above post on your talk page was in poor taste, and I apologise for it. I wasn't aware of your extensive communication with NWA.Rep when I wrote it, although I noticed it shortly afterward and half considered removing it when I did. In my mind I was primarily expressing frustration with the community's established use of extremely poor performance measures (absolute numbers that don't take activity levels into account) and meant my comment about socking in that context. I should not have expressed it in the form of wild speculation about any particular person. I am shocked to hear that NWA.Rep's candidacy was apparently not meant as a joke. It was certainly widely perceived as such. Hans Adler 17:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's OK, Hans. I know what you mean about NWA's arbcom candidacy (the previous one — don't know if you saw he was a candidate in the recent election, too). He could hardly have had any expectation of being elected, really, but that doesn't mean either of his attempts were intended as jokes. I think he wanted a bigger audience for criticism that he meant very seriously. I didn't follow the activity on his election page this time round, but I know how upset he was when his userpage was nominated for deletion recently, and then was actually deleted, so I can imagine he showed his frustration at the election page too. (Bishzilla was serious, too.. but merely keeping up with the questions during the election was too much stress for her, so she jumped ship before the voting. Nevertheless, she got some "moral support" votes, lol.) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC).

Certified.Gangsta's attitude has always been severely at odds with the environment of considerate collaboration that's necessary to accomplish things on Wikipedia, with that banner being a prime display of his childish pettiness, lack of consideration for others, and complete inability to compromise. He has been an active detriment to the project from time out of mind, and his contributions to article space are completely negligible. I've tried explaining the issue to him, he's never displayed any willingness to listen. If he's going to stay here, he needs to do some serious soul-searching about why people dislike him, but given his severe victim complex this seems vanishingly unlikely. At present he appears to have thrown a fit and quit, which is regrettable, but if he was planning on coming back and the banner issue is the tipping point that's driven him away permanently, then while I'm sorry you've lost your friend, we are truly better off without him, and we should have realized this three years ago. In short, I have no regrets about my action and I'm not changing it back. Have a good day. --erachima talk 18:14, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Participation chart
,, , – Can you please explain what happened and why the rollback tool was used? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess I can only explain what I did. I noticed on my watchlist that Ebe123 had rolled back an edit by JohnUniq. From the Shakespeare pages, I know Johnuniq as a thoughtful and highly respectable editor, and could only suppose that Ebe had misclicked. Inspecting Johnuniq's edit confirmed me in that impression, so I rollbacked Ebe, i.e. reinstated Johnuniq's edit. After the discussion on the page, I see now how Ebe might possibly have done it on purpose. I still don't have any apology for rollbacking in my turn, though; if he did it deliberately, in that fashion, it was pretty abusive. I was very surprised to have my reinsertion of Johnuniq's edit reverted by Sven, and if I wasn't so busy IRL, I might have challenged him. Checking back later, I saw that User:Hot Stop had taken care of it. Only now do I see, from one or your links, that Sven reverted me by mistake. Thanks for that. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:25, 15 December 2011 (UTC).

Pending changes
Talk:Robert_Byrd – Can you please remove pending changes protection from the Robert_Byrd article? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Never mind. Risker took care of it. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 15:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to the middle of the encyclopedia
For the entire time that I've been editing Wikipedia, every time I see your name, I think of "welcome to the middle of the film" in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life only with every occurrence of fish replaced by Bish.

Ooooh, Bishy, Bishy, Bishy Bish! / A-Bish, a-Bish, a-Bish, a-Bishy, ooooh.

Brings a smile to my face every time I see your name.

I've no idea why I'm telling you this now, but please don't tell Bishzilla, or I might be eaten. --GraemeL (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hehe. That's one of my favorite movies of all time. Don't worry about Bishzilla, she doesn't watch this page that much. The evil little User:Darwinbish does, though. A visit from her would wipe the smile from from your face! Scary! :-( Bishonen &#124; talk 17:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC).

Wikiquote of the week:

"I really despair sometimes about the sheer time-wasting involved in Wikipedia in repudiating non-points." Thought of the day: 

"I was thinking about the world. This is a mistake and can cause insanity."


 * Julie Hecht, "A Little Present on This Dark November Day"

Best of luck in your future endeavors. Nobody Ent 13:16, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Desysop request
Hey Bish, done that, added some of the other bits back (rollback, edit patrol etc), but just wanted to let you know you're no longer an admin and you didn't leave under a cloud. At least, not a Wiki-cloud. Hope all is well with you, happy new year, take care. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year! Giacomo Returned 20:47, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Is everything OK, Bish? If you need a break from adminship, no worries, of course, but wanted to check on you. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Mrs Bishonen is quite well, but (like myself) tired of some of the antics taking place here lately. In her (hopefully short) absence, I have been placed in charge of this page - I think it a pity she chose to throw her admin tools away rather than hand them over to someone wise who would have made good use of them - I can think of several people I would block if she had given them to me, but there you are - too late now. During her absence, I have been asked to remove all bots, stupid comments and posts from people I dislike. Good evening to you all. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 09:43, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps if you would have given her jewels and valuables back that you "retained", she would have let you have the tools? Maybe she thought that you wouldn't give those back either. <b style="color:#00C">⋙–Ber</b><b style="color:#66f">ean–Hun</b><b style="color:#00C">ter—►</b>  14:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the news, Your Ladyship. Herr Läufer shall wait for Frau Bishonen's return. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Why throw them away if you are just taking a break?— cyberpower ( Talk to Me )( Contributions ) 14:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Bish can ask for the bit back whenever. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:17, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Bear in mind that Bish will still be recovering from the serious health problem she had before Christmas. These things take longer than you think they will (like builders really) and it can get you quite down if you're *still* not 100%. I'm sure a break will be good, and she'll be back before Lady Catherine has auctioned the furniture. Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:37, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Its a shame, editors seem to be leaving this place like rats and a sinking ship...maybe its just cause of the whole Mayan calendar end of the world Hoax. At least a dozen experienced editors have left in the last 2 weeks alone. At least 4 of them on the top 20 most active editors list. Place will be all Nube's soon. 71.163.243.232 (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

until spring



 * Ta, Nobody Ent. Nice greenery, but I doubt it'll come to a sticky end. Those ridiculous bears seem to be headed for a new ice age, rather than de-hibernation. All they do is moan about how Giacomo left, they're sad, boo hoo. Did you notice the "three little socks" are impersonations of Bishzilla, Pod and Fish? Check out their talkpages, you'll see they're hibernating and stuff. [Proudly. ] Not me! Last sock standing! As soon as 'shonen is good and gone, I'll see if I can take over her admin tools. Not give them up under a cloud, so why not! And my evil nature is currently best possible representation of the personality of Actual Secret Individual who runs us all, so most suitable!  darwin bish  BITE 19:24, 27 February 2012 (UTC).
 * Sock? No socks here, just Bishonen alternate accounts. Not nasty sock. No evil nature, only Sauron and Sauruman evil. Nobody Ent 00:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

darwinbish portrait
Hi Bishonen! One of your evil menagerie recently thanked me for fixing their pic. I hope this means Bishzilla won't try to eat me some time in the near future. That task is best left to my parents' elderly corgi.--Shirt58 (talk) 11:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Best Wishes
Hope all is well and wishing you a Happy and Prosperous New Year (Prospero Año Nuevo as we sometime-Spanish say). Get Well Soon/Speedy Recovery is offered also as applicable. ML (Much Love as we sometime-Scientologists say). Your friend --Lyncs (talk) 18:32, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:User pages
Hi Bishonen. You participated in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:User pages. I have started an RfC about the issue: Wikipedia talk:User pages. Cunard (talk) 05:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)


 * [Mommy Bear exits the cosy hibernation cave reluctantly with all her little socks in tow, after a refreshing, but too short, three-week wikinap.] I would always have resisted the proposal to outlaw joke banners, but the reason I've been so invested in it for years is that I have most often — no, only, really — come across the practice of aggressively removing those banners in a particular context: the sadistic piling on on a vulnerable user whenever he's been in hot water and thus an object of attention — a user whose last shred of wikipride the banner represents. (Don't ask me why it does, but it seems to be a fact, and empathy-challenged people who like attacking safe targets seem to be prepared to escalate the issue indefinitely and triumphantly.) See the user's recent talkpage history, and here's another example from 2007, when the user was called Certified.Gangsta. Compare Skomorokh's eloquent oppose. But I'll pass on your RFC, thank you. I'm tired of trying to argue on the level of "it's not funny", "it's irritating" etc. I admit it's in a way tempting to use the RFC to personally attack, bite, and eat a few users so full of themselves as to want joke message banners verboten on the principle that they waste valuable time which could otherwise have been spent improving the encyclopedia. On a slow connection, clicking on one of these banners and having the (apparently) peculiarly insulting experience of being misdirected to Practical joke could easily take up to eight or nine seconds, couldn't it! Just think of the encyclopedic improvements people could have been making in that time! And so many users have these fake banners on their pages (don't they?) that our editing will inevitably be continually disrupted as we're helplessly washed up, again and again, at Practical joke. I mean, how many usertalk pages are the bnners on? 60%, is it? 70%? It must be something like that, or surely nobody would care, or would they?


 * Where was I… oh. Yes, I was briefly tempted to weigh in. But I've depressed myself too much over the years reading these interminable "debates" on the subject, stretching back to the Big Bang, and I have shed my illusions that my input could make any difference. Another depressing factor is the hilariously non-neutral way you've introduced the RFC. Posting a selection of old comments in favour of banning these jokes, but nothing whatever of this nature? "Summarising" the arguments of people like me in the way you do? Seriously? Have you even looked at the instructions for talkpage RFCs?




 * Might those ever-renewed debates about the subject possibly waste any time which could have been spent improving the encyclopedia ? Could Bulwersator have a point about the bike shed? Or could all this activity in removing banners, which you, Cunard, so oddly list as an argument for your case (the existence of such activity is an argument for encouraging more such activity? How come?) take up any valuable potential editing time? These conundrums are left as an exercise to my page watchers. I'll be returning to the cave now. [To general relief, Mommy Bear tramples back to the cave to wait for the distant spring, her little socks padding after her. The biggest of them, baby Zilla, tries a cute, tiny roar.] Bishonen &#124; talk 23:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC).

Giano
Bishonen, can you not use your considerable powers of persuasion to get Giano to reconsider his retirement? The place will be "dullsville" without him. God knows the joint has already got as boring as an in-laws family reunion.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi
Hi there Ms. Bishonen. I saw a couple posts and thought how great to see you active again. I miss ya. I'm really sorry for any health things you may be dealing with (and you have all my thoughts an prayers in that), but I didn't want to bother you with that silly orange banner either. I've always thought the world of you, and I love your sense of humor ... please tell all the little "bishes" I said hi. When you address real issues in regards to WP, you do it very well - and I take your words to heart. I'd very much like to see you more active, but I must respect your need to "hibernate". You have all my best wishes. — Ched : ?  23:22, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah well. Very kind, I'm sure, Ched. Better not wake the bears, all they do is carry on about entering a new ice age and wishing they were polar bears because Giacomo left. Yeah, yeah. See evil response to Nobody Ent above.  darwin bish  BITE 19:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC).

WT:AC/N
My comment wasn't intended to imply that you had a history of being accused of incivility. I understand the general complaint against the civility enforcement paradigm to be that enforcement is uneven, often hypocritical, and utterly subjective. So it just struck me as interesting to see opponents of civility enforcement pointing out the incivility of a relatively mild comment. Calling out "screaming" makes some sense as an indictment of hypocrisy, but is a little odd (to me) as a genuine complaint. <strong style="color:#0033CC">Nathan <strong style="color:#0033CC"> T 17:57, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * (e/c, top-posting, sorry).You're a little odd (to me), but I'm sorry I called you a louse. Don't wake Mommy Bear, please. Study the "woodlice" line art drawing above. Bishonen &#124; talk 18:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC).


 * You're not alone, I'm a little odd to a lot of people. I'm also a little out of practice at commenting in policy debates (or contributing to Wikipedia in any way, for that matter), and should have paid a little more attention to my phrasing. Best wishes for a quick recuperation! <strong style="color:#0033CC">Nathan <strong style="color:#0033CC"> T 18:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Was it a complaint or was it simply an observation? Malleus Fatuorum 18:06, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Quoting in part: "Please don't keep using "screaming" as a summary of arguments you don't like, Fluff. (You use the word too, Sandstein.) It's disrespectful, provocative, and contemptuous." I understood her comment to be a complaint, but I may have been incorrect. <strong style="color:#0033CC">Nathan <strong style="color:#0033CC"> T 18:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Self requested block of old abandoned account
Hello, I have recently come across an old abandoned account of mine last edited in 2009 that happens bears my legal name, User:Phoenixbkelser was used for purposes I am ashamed of, I request to have it blocked indefinitely so I can never return to it, I do not want to ever return to it, I am 100% sure it was mine as it is my full fist and last name though its password I can not recall at the moment but may have it somewhere in the back of my mind. A block on that account would be helpful for me to move forward from that time, note my current account is older than User:Phoenixbkelser by two months, but the two where never used simultaneously. Regardless though, it was a brief part of my past that does not define me, today I am a better wikipedian, the best way for me to move forward is to confront my past with honesty, I will wait for your reply. – Phoenix B 1of3 (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * PB.333, I'm lurking on Bish's page hoping to see she's changed her mind, but right now she seems to have either scaled way back, or retired, depending on how you choose to read between the lines of the note at the top. But no matter which it is, she's no longer a sysop, having resigned the tools a while ago, so she can't block your former account. Would you like me to do this for you? I've looked into it a little, and it seems OK in an IAR kind of way. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, I can't think of a reason to wait to hear back from you, so done. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:23, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Note: I've removed Bish's page from the admins willing to self-block category. Nobody Ent 13:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Should she still be an account creator as well? 138.162.8.58 (talk) 18:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi 138.*, permissions are generally not removed from someone's account because they leave for an indeterminate time. Even the desysop was voluntary. No need to do anything more, I think. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:13, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * [Fixes the impertinent IP with a chilly stare, and, just on general principles, bites Nobody Ent shrewdly on an unmentionable part. ] Plus, even though not editing (much), why mightn't 'shonen need to create a couple more socks, or five or six, to take care of loose ends? I'm getting a little tired of having to run the whole show single-handed, you know! (Signed) Darwinbish, acting CEO of the Bishonen conglomerate, 21:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC).
 * P.S. [Darwinbish checks out the IP's contributions, notices that they have Brad101's number down pat, is mollified.] OK, IP showed good sense here. Accusation of impertinence retracted without prejudice.  darwin bish  BITE 21:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC).

Friend bearing gift



 * [Darwinbish is appalled.] Fishy? Crunchy ? Is that my little brother the monster is eating?? We're mostly all fish here, Wolf! Look at portraits, see for yourself! Don't eat sushi on this page! Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes!   darwin bish  BITE 14:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC).


 * Bishapod the fishapod: Swimapod4sm.gif


 * Darwinfish, good twin, silly minnow with feet: Darwin fish (1).png


 * Darwinbish, evil twin, highly evolved type of fish with feet: Darwinbish.jpg
 * Awww, it was meant to be a nice treat for Mommy Bear! (Wolfie gently hugs fishy socks.)  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 17:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * [Ungraciously.] "Mommy Bear" is a polar bear now, see top of page. Applies to all of Svalbard. Better give her a seal.  darwin bish  BITE 19:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC).


 * [Ched recalls distant memory] Are cupcakes still acceptable nourishment? — Ched : ?  19:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * At RFCs mainly. [Strangely, nobody RFC'd teh darwinbish yet. Disappointed!] Well, and cupcakes that come with other people's weenie wikilove messages can be tasty.  darwin bish  BITE 23:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC).
 * I think polar bears eat fish, too. But not special fishy sock-fishies,  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 20:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Polar bears eat pretty much whatever the hell they want. I don't want to freak anyone out, so I won't post the picture, but... (Pesky, last chance, stop reading now)... they eat wolves, too. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:39, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, they'll eat anything; they're not proud! Except, apparently, wolverines.  I can't for the life of me think of the immediate citation (may have been Larousse), but some zoo or other decided that a wolverine and a polar bear could share the same sham-Arctic habitat area, provided that the wolverine had somewhere safe to escape from the bear.  Next morning, the official result was Wolverines:1; Bears:0.  The bear had nowhere safe to escape from the wolverine.  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 22:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

 * [Small user:Darwinbish dives into the rift seen at the top of the Choco-nut Bake cupcake and can be heard ferreting around inside, locating and eating all the nuts and chocolate chips, undermining the whole with lots of little hollows like in a Swiss cheese. Starts on the meringue top. Encouragingly: ] Not bad, Jack! I plan on generously leaving the less-than-glamorous cake itself to 'shonen and maybe Fish. They're not gourmets like me!  darwin bish  BITE 21:57, 28 March 2012 (UTC).

Pressie for the fishy socks :D


[The good twin Darwinfish clicks on article Daphnia and is fascinated by the cute portrait of Daphnia pulex. ] Like a budgie with big manga eyes... Thank you for showing me pretty girl, ms. Pesky! Not share her with anybody! [Has puberty hit 'fish already? ] Er, what does "munchies" mean? darwin fish 11:33, 1 April 2012 (UTC).
 * LOL. Ignoramus! That water flea is for eating, not dating! Pesky, kindly stop your green stuff going on and on. Even <br style="clear:both" /> doesn't help!  darwin bish  BITE 11:47, 1 April 2012 (UTC).

Missing you
I'm missing you badly, chère, and it's difficult for this old dinosaur to cope with the over-evolved ankle biter, so I'm just reminding you of the thawing weather here. I spent the day yesterday at Herbert Art Gallery & Museum, Coventry and found 4 volumes of press cuttings dating from around the 1820s, all concerned with theatrical productions in Coventry - Edmund Kean is prominently mentioned, and there's a report of a performance of "The Ancient and Tragic History of King Lear (originally by William Shakespeare)", immediately striking me that so much Bowdlerisation had occurred that the reader had to be reminded of who wrote Lear! It was pure gold dust as primary sources and I thought of how much you might have enjoyed seeing how theatre evolved in that post-Regency/pre-Victorian period from a first-hand narrative. Anyway, if you fancy doing something around that period sometime, let me know and I'll get some transcripts sorted out.

While I'm here, and cognisant of this piece of advice: I ought to inform you that you're mentioned at Categories for discussion/Log/2012 April 1, where you can see that numerous, diverse Wikipedians also wish you well and would like to see you return to active editing. Dino-hugs --T-RexxS (talk) 20:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Canvassing - "An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion might place a message at one of the following: ... On the talk pages of a user mentioned in the discussion"


 * sigh* .. I find it a sad thing that the project is at a point where an editor feels they must actually search out and post the quote from a guideline before they make a post that they should feel perfectly free to make (and is quite acceptable). Very sad that we've digressed so far that folks walk on egg-shells about a simple notification.  Is there really any doubt as to why so many quality editors are no longer active in building the encyclopedia? — Ched :  ?  19:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I was wandering in the wilderness

 * How did you stumble on that? Like arguing with a brick wall, isn't it? I'm surprised that page hasn't been deleted by some flunky (there's one born every minute). Hopefully it's safe in my userspace, but you never know. Anyway. Cute baby Maritimus! I hope the darwinbishster doesn't turn up and teach it to bite people in unmentionable parts; she likes to spread the evil among the young, and to train babies of all kinds to be her loyal bodyguards and hitmen. (Just check out her new template, for posting on people who have been awarded Wikilove kittens!) I'll try to keep the little teddy away from her. By the same token, better not let her near your New Forest ponies. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:20, 10 May 2012 (UTC).
 * I stumble across all sorts of things! It's called blue-link surfing, lol! I chuckled at DarwinBish's kittie-love ;P  Anyone who has ever kept kittens knows just how needle-sharp those little fangs can be; though their mouths aren't generally big enough for a fierce ass-bite, they can certainly get right down to the bone on fingers and toes! My own New Forest ponies would probably enjoy the challenge of playing with a DarwinBish; they'll do almost anything for a laugh ... highly intelligent breed with an occasionally warped sense of humour.  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 10:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * {Baby Tex wobbles into the room with a Lego in his hand}
 * Bite! Bite! Ha ha ha ha!  Oooooohhh.  Horsh, horsh!  Da Da, horsh! Baby Tex (talk) 13:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [Pesky just remembering having skull fractured by baby Rocket-Pony.] Hmmmmm.  DarwinBish, was that your work, too?  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 14:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No it wasn't. I can't be everywhere! But if you create a User:Baby Rocket-Pony I'll consider taking him/it under my protection together with the other baby torpedoes. Good boy, Baby Tex! Keep up the good work. Who're you going to throw that Lego at? Capo Darwinbish, 15:48, 10 May 2012 (UTC).
 * Oh, trust me, Little Tex has a great arm when it comes to throwing Legos! I'm usually the one who gets bonked, but not on purpose.  He doesn't look where he throws most of the time! Tex (talk) 17:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Baby Rocket-Pony is no longer a baby; he's the one in the lead as they round the bend in that impromptu race in the video up there! Next year he will be old enough to start learning how to be ridden.  That, of course, will have to come after learning how to co-operate with humans on any level not involving "being unable to do anything about it".  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 19:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Shakespeare Authorship Question
I have no intention of engaging in any edit war and I apologise if you feel my previous action was in some way discourteous.

I have commented on the main talk page for the Shakespeare Authorship Question.

I should be obliged by your early response.

Wightknightuk (talk) 13:39, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, as all the contributors here are volunteers, you may not request an early response, because nobody is under any obligation to respond to you at all. However, I'll drop a note on your talk page that may be beneficial to you. --RexxS (talk) 01:50, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Bish for ArbCom
Hey sleepy bear, why don't you run for ArbCom instead of putting it all on MastCell & Floquenbeam? Money where your mouth is and all that? Nobody Ent 21:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Which Bish? Several editors have tried to no avail to get Bishzilla to run. Maybe this is the year... <b style="color:#00C">⋙–Ber</b><b style="color:#66f">ean–Hun</b><b style="color:#00C">ter—►</b>  21:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No avail? Plenty avail, little hunter. Been there, done that, in 2008. Admittedly, was forced by overwork (campaign very strenuous!) to abandon candidacy before voting began. But see also and .    bishzilla     ROA R R! !    22:02, 21 May 2012 (UTC).
 * Which one is the ankle biter? That's who I'd vote for. Nobody Ent 23:05, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL, 'Zilla hardly likely reach down to tiny ankles of little users! Ankle biter is naughty grandsock Darwinbish. Small user, sharp teeth! Perhaps good qualities for arb... not sure. 'Zilla more mellow!    bishzilla     ROA R R! !    23:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC).
 * 'Zilla can afford to be mellow. Speak softly and swing a big something. Or something. --Lyncs (talk) 18:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Lyncs! Good to see you on my page. The point 'Zilla kept making in her 2008 campaign was that she and her Dino Ursprache would bring conciseness to arbcom (along with a big stick, for sure). I still think she had a good point there. It was during the less-than-glorious heyday of the most verbose arbitrator ever, so her remarks on the subject were rather pointed. But in a tactful way. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC).
 * Pointed but tactful. Like her teeth. LOL. Like your wit. Good to see you! --Lyncs (talk) 15:01, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I think Bishzilla would have gotten along just fine with FT2. He seemed quite fond of animals. MastCell Talk 22:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Including reptiles? Now that I did not know. I fully take your point, MC, and it does you credit, but on another level: "would have gotten along," indeed. I know the glories of 2009 are history, but I hope you nevertheless recollect the high point of Bishzilla's admin career with some measure of reverence? Not so mellow as all that! Bishonen &#124; talk 23:25, 22 May 2012 (UTC).
 * Technically, Bishzilla can run since Bishonen hannded in her bit...jus saying is" all...Bishzilla can do anything IT wants, and the fear of the Bishes is enough that tools aren't really necessary anyway...tools are for little users, right?--MONGO 00:27, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Support ANY and all "Bish" candidates for administrative and/or arbitration authority. Sharp teeth?  Fire breath?  ... no matter.  Judgement what matters. — Ched :  ?  10:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think all Bish needs to do is put in a request to get the bits back. And although we've not always agreed, I would support her.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [Darwinbish legs it for the bureaucrats' noticeboard to pick up Bishonen's abandoned bit. Calls over her shoulder, or possibly over her dorsal fin:] Race you, Bishzilla!  darwin bish  BITE 17:30, 23 May 2012 (UTC)..
 * Bish-family should all run for arbitrary committee. Noez policy says alts can't all run. And lil'ankle-biter needs teh sharperer teeth. Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 17:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I think Bishzilla should nominate me for admin...that's right...MONGO for admin! Since no one else would have the courage and the threat of opposing such a nomination ensures a great chance of being eaten alive...its the only fighting chance MONGO has! Especially considering I am perhaps the least popular editor on the website...and I've managed to make even more lasting relationships!...for the record, my first admin task would be an indefinite block on Jimbo...he doesn't create/edit anything besides his talkpage anyway...looks like trolling to me!MONGO 17:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC) Would be interesting when the Bish block splits 2 - 2 on a vote. Nobody Ent 18:30, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, what a short memory this place has! Tex (talk) 18:18, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * we knew that ;> Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 18:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Darwinbish has the casting bite. --RexxS (talk) 19:59, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Pesky supports any of the shoal of Bishes, too. <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 18:53, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [Darwinfish is shy but determined to venture a compliment.] Mrs Pesky great mastery of English prose! "Shoal of bishes!" :-) darwin fish 22:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC).
 * [Irritated.] Oh, why don't you slink back to your extinction, you silly minnow? Shoo!  darwin bish  BITE 22:57, 26 May 2012 (UTC).

New bitey kitteh for you to use ;P


<span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 06:42, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hehehehehehe, cute little fellow! Finally some assistance in my great work to teach everybody a lesson! [Darwinbish experiences an unfamiliar and alarming emotion: an impulse to thank Pesky. Resists without much difficulty.]  darwin bish  BITE 09:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC).
 * [Pesky hugs Darwinbish, cautiously] Ummmm, little bitey fishie, have you enrolled a squadron of mozzies recently? I am covered in bites. Maybe I'm just very, very tasty.  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 19:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [Darwinbish bites Pesky shrewdly on the ankle for testing purposes, nods. ] Quite tasty!  little   ankle   biter   19:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC).
 * [Pesky gives wolfy grin, licks Darwinbish, spits out slimy fish-coating, ew...] <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 20:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Alleged threats
As it happens, I saw the alleged "bomb threat" before they deleted it. I don't recall the exact text, but it was some juvenile, poorly-worded thing about using a bomb "to destroy wikipedia", followed by one of those mmmmuuuuuaaaah!!!!! kinds of things. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I looked. That was pretty much what it was.  Straight out of a bad B-movie script. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 18:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


 * [/me rolls up into a frightened ball, shivers with terror. ] Ohhh, the evil laugh! Please not the laugh! (Oversighted and deleted are all the same to me, as to you, Bugs, I can't see either of 'em. Probably fortunately, in this case. My poor nerves can't take it.) Bishonen &#124; talk 19:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC).


 * I wish they had left it there, just for the humor of it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:57, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

About Barnets århundrade
Hi Bish!

The article about a possibly very well known book was recently started. I was having fun translating the article without using Google translate: - - - ... and was then it was quickly and correctly redirected to Ellen Key.
 * "Barnets århundrade" är en mycket känd bok skriven av den svenska författaren Ellen Key"
 * "Barnets århundrade" is the best known book written by the Swedish educationalist Ellen Key.
 * "1909 översattes "Barnets århundrade" till engelska och fick titeln "Century of the child". Boken har i dag översatts till 13 språk."
 * ""Barnets århundrade" was translated into English in 1909 with the title "Century of the child". The book has been translated into 13 languages."
 * "Selma Lagerlöf och August Strindberg."
 * Selma Lagerlöf and August Strindberg.

I tried dropping the whole untranslated article into sv.wp to see what would happen, but got this Varning

Could you possibly have a little look into this? Dank u!--Shirt58 (talk) 14:37, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Promising translation.. why don't you continue it, and turn the redirect back into an article? :-)


 * The Swedish warning template merely informs you that you're recreating a page name that was previously deleted, in 2006. I expect we get the same kind of response over here. It's obviously an automatic message, and it doesn't say there's something wrong with the content you tried to put in; only that you should consider whether your text is "appropriate". Of course that's because of a generalised suspicion of recreations of deleted articles. But this text can't very well be the same as the old one, since the new is perfectly cromulent, while the old was deleted as a "test".


 * Unfortunately I'm not an admin on sv.wiki (nor active there so's you'd notice), so I can't read the "Barnets århundrade" that was deleted. But I took a look at the sw Ellen Key, and that's only got half a sentence about "Barnets århundrade". (Oddly enough, the sentence claims that it's been translated into 26 languages, exactly twice as many as your Wikipedjenny.) Hmm, I think I must edit the intro a little… anyway.


 * I think you should ignore the Swedish bot's warning, since "your" text is no test, and create the article. Or else give Wikipedjenny a little advice, on the lines of "Hey, you put this in the wrong wiki, try sv". Regards, Bishonen &#124; talk 17:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC).


 * Thanks for all your help, Bish! I think mine was a very good translation, since I don't speak a word of Swedish. (I think of myself as at heart an Eng. Lit. nerd.  And we Eng. Lit. types are typically monoglots, and confused by and rather suspicious of folks who can speak other languages.) I have a personal policy of not editing articles about books I haven't read. Will read the UPenn English translation here first. --Shirt58 (talk) 13:39, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I Concur
Your essay is correct..."With all due respect" is really the same as F--- OFF or even F--- YOU! In some circumstances, the "In all due respect" response may be worse than the "F" ones...for reasons that should be obvious!MONGO 15:06, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Nice essay, Bish. Reminds of something I have learned in life, to wit, anytime someone says "I don't mean to ...", they are broadcasting exactly what they do meant to, e.g. "I don't mean to interrupt ..." followed by the interrruption, "I don't mean to criticize ..." followed by the criticism. The answer is, of course, as soon as you hear "I don't mean to ... ", quickly and loudly interrupt with "THEN JUST DON'T". --Lyncs (talk) 15:12, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Haha. "I don't mean to call your post "idiotic", but.." Why not just say it? Bishonen &#124; talk 17:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC).


 * "No offense intended, but..." --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And "None taken" equals "Oh yeah? Wait till I get a chance to crap on you, buster." Bishonen &#124; talk 17:37, 15 June 2012 (UTC).
 * "With all due respect..." Also, "I'd be happy to do X" typically means "I will grudgingly agree to do X if it's absolutely unavoidable." MastCell Talk 17:23, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Whereas "Since you're twisting my arm, I suppose I might as well do X" typically means "I will be absolutely ecstatic to do X! Right now!" Bishonen &#124; talk 17:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC).


 * "Experienced editors are encouraged" means that experienced editors are in fact discouraged. As, "Experienced editors are encouraged to improve articles about Israel and Palestine" or "experienced editors are encouraged to monitor contentious biographies of non-notable internet maniacs." I say this with all due respect to arbcom, who seems to routinely issue these prouncements of encouragement. Tom Harrison Talk 17:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you may have forgotten to link the phrase to my essay, Tom. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC).
 * I'll wait until I'm actually involved in arbitration, just for maximum effect. Tom Harrison Talk 18:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, well...go ahead an be the snob! With all due respect, you're not really a Wikipedian until you have your name in neon atop an arbcom case!!! Only then have you fully arrived!MONGO 19:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Guilty as charged. I have indeed used the phrase "With all due respect" at times.  It is seldom that I elaborate on exactly how MUCH respect said recipient is actually "due" however.  IIRC - another current "don't shoot the messenger" style phrase is "IJS" .. or "I'm Just Sayin'".  It all boils down to telling someone they're acting like a fool.  Kudos to Ms. Bish for such a splendid and concise essay which shows much wisdom - but then I've come to expect that from "teh Bishes". :) Chedzilla (talk) 17:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

You are of course aware of WP:WIKISPEAK, where WP:WIKISPEAK has been on the books for some time (see also WP:WIKISPEAK). Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:13, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Bishonen &#124; talk 18:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC).
 * Bah, I gave up with WP:WIKISPEAK when was removed. --T-RexxS (talk) 21:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha. What a dark horse you are, Rex. I never knew about that (or did I?) [/me inspects capacious memory. Cavernous, empty.] Bishonen &#124; talk 23:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC).


 * Hee heee heeeeee! I, personally, love the phrase "With all due respect."  Emphasis on "due".  It means that if the person whom you're addressing is unworthy of even the smallest smidgin of respect, then that's exactly how much you're prepared to give them ... it's one of those phrases which are always appropriate ;P  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 18:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The phrase has /always/ been open to the zero-level ;) <span style="border-style:solid;margin-left:1px;border-color:#18a0ec #18a0ec #18a0ec transparent;margin-right:-4px;border-width:7px;color:transparent;font-size:0"> <span style="border-top:1px solid #18a0ec;border-left:1px solid #18a0ec;border-bottom:1px solid #18a0ec;color:#18a0ec;background-color:#d7e7f4;padding:1px 4px">Br'er Rabbit <span style="border-style:solid;margin-left:-4px;border-color:#18a0ec transparent #18a0ec #18a0ec;border-width:7px;color:transparent;font-size:0"> 18:38, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I love it, dear Bish. Deliciously concise as well.  Antandrus  (talk) 22:20, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Do expand. :-) Perhaps a huge "See also" section? Bishonen &#124; talk 23:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC).


 * Very nice. It's also used on Yes Minister.  It takes James Hacker a while to realize Sir Humphrey is actually insulting him.  Becomes a bit of a catch phrase.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, I think I remember, now you mention it. There was a slight emphasis on "due", right? Bishonen &#124; talk 23:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC).


 * It's one of those irregular verbs. I deserve respect. You deserve all due respect. He can fuck right off. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe so, very slight. Nigel Hawthorne was a genius.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:27, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Dunno if this one shows up so much in your circles, but one of the classics in my area is "bless your/his/her heart". Which is perhaps not quite as strong as the others, but still bears the implication that the heart, while in the right place, is royally screwed up about what it thinks/is doing. Heimstern:Away (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I've come across the expression quite a bit, in novels, that is. (My English being largely a Lesefrucht altogether.) To be absolutely frank, they weren't the latest novels, and I took it to be a little… old-fashioned by now. Or at least kind of reserved for older speakers, and thereby not something you'd be likely to see on Wikipedia. Did I make that up out of whole cloth? Bishonen &#124; talk 01:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC).
 * It probably is a hair old-fashioned. I hear it from people like my mum, after all. :-) And also from church-type people, who of course love words like those. Heimstern:Away (talk) 00:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I now look forward to the next in the series "Some of my best friends are xyz" --Joopercoopers (talk) 01:54, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Bish...we need different essay for the phrase Have a nice day...which is oftentimes used (least in the states) as an expression which actually means "F--- You". Well, maybe we don't...lol.--MONGO 02:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep, that one. That could use an essay.  (We even have an article on it)!  I think it's changed in meaning just in the last ten years; now it's more likely to be hostile than not.  Recent example that happens to stick in my mind.  But yet it's ..... "civil"!!  Ha.  Sometimes I hear it said in sincerity, here in California, typically by people a little older who may have not noticed the shift in intent.  But that's all WP:OR. Antandrus  (talk) 04:39, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I have hesitated to mention the really nasty stuff, but since some of you guys are bringing out heavy artillery like "Have a nice day", I'll put down Big Bertha: the notorious HTH HAND. My impression is that it's not that common nowadays, though; mainly used by a dying breed (as it might be, Slashdot tribal elders). Perhaps felt to be too scary? Joop, a rare visit, how nice to see you here! Bishonen &#124; talk 09:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC).

I don't mean to be mean but (I'm about to slam the crap out of you) ... "Just sayin" (I've insulted you but am now waving a verbal magic wand so you're not supposed to be insulted) Nobody Ent 10:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The really vicious girls in the jock/cheerleader clique at my high school would end their digs with "And I mean that in the nicest possible way." Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it's terribly nice of you to say that. I came, I saw, I concurred. Your humble and obedient servant, dave souza, talk 14:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a nice biscuit, Dave. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:30, 19 June 2012 (UTC).
 * I'm thoroughly enjoying this extended convo! I simply love stuff like EsateAgentSpeak, too ;P Garishly Cheerfully decorated / in Insipid Neutral colours; this Falling-down Character property is situated in a over-priced sought after location, far too close to Within easy reach of the train station, and comprises a cramped cosy entrance lobby, a ridiculously small snug living room, a couldn't swing a cat in it compact kitchen, two claustrophobic generous double bedrooms, and gardens mainly laid to weeds lawn ..... It hasn't been decorated or rewired in fifty years has scope for improvement, and is ruined by benefits from a tasteless modern conservatory of an OMFG who thought that looked good? unique design.  In the noisy, smelly bustling small town of X__, and close to the heavily polluted popular seaside resorts of Y__ and Z__ ...  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 19:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Hahahaha! I had a real life "with all due respect" comment today directed at me from from an arrogant 20 something less than half my age....! My response was "yes you should respect me" followed by "and go fuck yourself"....it was quite comical...his expression was priceless when I used real words to say it how it is.MONGO 17:09, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hehe. Db couldn't have put it better herself. Not much better, anyway.  darwin bish  BITE 20:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC).

"I'm not being funny, but.." A wonderful and magic British phrase which can be followed by absolutely anything offensive or insulting, and it's perfectly ok. When you hear it you can be sure the person is about to be purposely insulting or breathtakingly stupid, but you're simply not allowed to take offence or react because, you know, they're not being funny. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 22:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL. Seriously? I've never heard that phrase. Is it new? I admit it's been some thirty years since I lived (briefly) in the UK. You should put that on WP:NPA, you know. "Insulting or disparaging an editor is usually a personal attack, but not if you say 'I'm not being funny'." Bishonen &#124; talk 22:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC).
 * Think it's pretty new in the last few years. My theory is it was popularised by its saturation use on Big Brother (UK).  Usually uttered by someone who really wanted to say something they suspected would annoy people, but desperately didn't want anyone to have any excuse to hate them. "I'm not being funny, right, but.." is the magic phrase that apparently allows this.  If you google it you'll find it in frequent use, and just as many people saying how annoying it is.  -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 23:07, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Religion and linguistic style
Not quite the couple I'd think of. I've raised the matter here. Oh, and we have this one to consider as well,. Tony  (talk)  13:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

This topic, and aphorisms towards the top of this page, bring to mind the extended statement on what humanity is by the cleric's wife in Bergman's Autumn Sonata. Do you remember it? I copied it down by hand (in English), I was so impressed. Tony  (talk)  13:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Remember it? I'm not sure I ever heard it. I'm not a culture vulture like you. :-) You'd better tell me what it was, Tony, or link me to it if it's on the web, and I'll see if User:Little Stupid and I can get our heads round it. Yeah, I did notice that that those are the religions MOS has pages on: Islam and Mormonism. [/me tries in vain to figure out from the MOS page whether she's allowed to use the word "Mormon" at all. Gives up. [[File:Confused-tpvgames.gif]] ] Bishonen &#124; talk 14:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC).
 * The copyright-carer in me thinks it should be emailed, not posted on-wiki. Shall do so when that piece of paper turns up again. It's sure to in the next few days. Tony   (talk)  12:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * {talk page watcher} I would be very interested in seeing it as well, Tony, if you have a minute. Thanks. -- Dianna (talk) 19:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * OMG, it's one of those man things again. Tony, you've jinxed it already!  "Sure to turn up in the next few days?"  Huh?  What?  You know now (or you would, if you were female) that the next time anyone is likely to catch sight of the thing will be when you move house in 20 years' time and it's discovered at the back of a cupboard with a few other things that accessed the wormhole in the fabric of domestic reality known as being "put in a safe place"!  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 04:52, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There's hope: it turned up in my very messy bedroom a few weeks ago. And a winter clean-up is in the offing! It's just a wonderful paragraph, Bergman, of course, speaking for himself through her. While it's couched in christian terms (her husband is, after all, a Lutheran priest), it's universal, too. Tony   (talk)


 * Found it. "To me, humans are a tremendous creation, an inconceivable thought. In humans is everything, from the highest to the lowest. They are god's image, and in god there is everything. So humans are the demons and the saints, the prophets and artists and iconoclasts. Everything exists side by side; it's like huge patterns, changing all the time. In the same way, there must be countless realities – not only the reality we perceive with our dull senses, but a tumult of realities arching over each other inside and outside. It's just fear and priggishness to believe in limits: there are no limits, either to thoughts or feelings. It's anxiety that sets the limits." Tony   (talk)  08:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, Tony, thank you. Food for thought. The "anxiety" conclusion is great. Lemme try to find out what it was originally: ängslan or ångest?
 * Aah.. hmm.. most sites only quote the first half of your passage. Ah, got it: "ängslighet" sets the limits. I didn't think of that one, but it's good. Less elegant than "ängslan", more like what somebody would actually say. Bishonen &#124; talk 09:41, 5 July 2012 (UTC).

Hi Bish
I mentioned you at the rfc on unblocking, the meaning of my remark is this, just in case you'd like to tell someone what I meant, the irony is that you tried to assist, by expanding from the bare minimum guide possible into something a little larger. It was proper and a great idea, sent me off considering an award :) which is hard to do for someone like you, Jorgath was also brilliant, putting me in the same ideas mode. Anyhow, that's what I meant, it was going fine until the over vocal minorities stirred irrational fears in the mob over 'but what could happen'. Penyulap  ☏  15:34, 30 Jun 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, that was a very flattering remark of yours about common sense leaving the building, thanks! :-) Yeah, I stopped talking and unwatched the page, because people didn't seem to be listening. Nobody contradicted my actual point (that this is already allowed, and the experienced among us already do it, so we shouldn't be keeping the way to do it secret from the less experienced), they just ignored it. I'm sorry, I should probably have insisted more, but (whiney tone surfacing) I have this low boredom threshold. I hope it works out. Not looking too promising, though, is it? :-( Bishonen &#124; talk 17:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC).
 * P.S. In case any TPWs are interested in the blocking policy, or otherwise want to depress themselves, the discussion in question is here. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:26, 1 July 2012 (UTC).
 * You're welcome, yes, I just re-read it, "Commonsense ironically left the building soon after Bish stopped talking." it does make me laugh all over again. :)
 * Boredom threshold, umm, I have some comment on that I'll tell you later. Penyulap  ☏  22:30, 7 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Randi GA nomination
I have started a GA review of an article to which you have recently contributed. Any help in addressing the concerns raised in the review are welcome.--The Devil&#39;s Advocate (talk) 18:10, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Me, contributed? ... oh, right. Contributed microscopically. But I'll take a look, since I'm interested in the subject. Thanks for letting me know. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:28, 9 July 2012 (UTC).
 * One edit from you is better than 10,000 edits from most others...MONGO 17:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * LÖL.  bish ä pöd   celebrating Heavy Metal Umlaut Day  19:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC). Hellö MÖNGÖ!

New section
Sorry Bish. I am human. Wish it weren't so, but there you have it. Enjoy the summer.


 * You too, little user. I not human, but still.    bishzilla     ROA R R! !    16:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC).

lol
link .. ok ... that was funny. :D Chedzilla (talk) 01:34, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It may be funny now. Not so much when the vigilant darwinbish sees it. Oh dear, I can't look... Bishonen &#124; talk 09:07, 14 July 2012 (UTC).

Buyer's Remorse

 * Yep... the editor who originally declined was trying, with enthusiasm but no practice, a few, shall we say, non-admin declines, and that's partially my bad. Check further up on my talk page for a discussion of NAC/RFPP). I overrode about half of his closes after he asked me to take a look, including yours, and asked him to stop until he could get some consensus that that was a good idea, and a better mentor than myself on RFPP work.
 * I do think that it's critical to be conscious of how we treat editors. Sorry you got caught in this SNAFU, and my personal apologies for contributing to that situation. It looks like the editor involved has seen the effect his decline had, so perhaps some good can come from this.  --j⚛e deckertalk 16:54, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: You've been to Svalbard too?  I was there last year on an artist residency, my third visit.  Amazing.  --j⚛e deckertalk 16:55, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I hope Chip wasn't totally discouraged. No, I haven't been to Svalbard, not in reality... but I spent a few months there in imagination, when I researched and composed this article, and the impression has lingered. That impression was of Svalbard and the surrounding icy wastes being not so much amazing as amazingly horrible, in 1897. :-) Probably different now, I realize. Warmer, for one thing. (Polar bears drowning. Oh, well.) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:13, 15 July 2012 (UTC).
 * Chip seems to have replied resiliantly, and maybe I can give him some real constructive advice on AfD. Hope so, shame to burst someone's bubble.  Svalbard: It's definitely "spare", but it has it's own beauty.  And agreed about the sadness, but they're not all gone, at least yet: .  --j⚛e deckertalk 22:38, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine bear cubs. So you were on Fram with Nansen? Wow. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 23:50, 15 July 2012 (UTC).
 * Yep, MS Fram indeed, last year in Svalbard and the one before in Greenland, three and two weeks respectively, I only worked closely with the ever-changing expedition team there, but it was an exhausting, amazing, irreplaceable experience. --j⚛e deckertalk 01:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the support
Hey Bish. Thanks for this. I've had my eye on community de-adminship for well over a year now and have been trying to decide the best way forward to do it. I know it's a long haul, but I'm not planning on going anywhere, and I think this a vital first step, which would make things very clear on how the community feels about the concept. I'm pretty convinced that opinion has changed on the "for life" concept, but how to fix that, I don't know yet! <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 12:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Praiseworthy initiative, anyway. Though any proposal restricting any of it to admins or bureaucrats is death, IMO. I rather like the idea of a committee, though I need to think before I put anything on your subpage. How often is a case likely to come up? How about a random selection of users (a selection made by a script) in good standing to form an ad hoc committee for each separate case ? With a lot of thought ahead of time put into how these committees will function, so that all they have to do is start on the case, not witter about how to proceed. Fast is beautiful.


 * So, you can already see what's going to happen, can't you? Everybody will be airing their pet peeves and getting bogged down in details, just like me, and it'll split into a hundred rivulets and run into the sand. :-( Sorry, I'm just in a "nothing can ever be improved on Wikipedia" mood today. Anyway… you might want to spam Tony1. He put a lot of work into a similar matter in 2009, see thisthis, this, and this. Fat lot of thanks he got for it... He made some pretty obvious strategic mistakes, no doubt (too complicated, too much bureaucracy). But I still think the idea was excellent. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC).
 * Consider Tony spammed. I'll have a good read of his admin review stuff, I'm sure I've looked over it before, but probably not in the light of spotting why the proposal failed. I do see your point regarding restrictions (cabal much?), and it matches my point of view (along with term limits being wholly unmanagable), but the idea of the "proof of concept" RfC is more of a fact finding exercise, to see where the community is currently sitting, how amenable they would be to community de-adminship in general, and regarding general concepts that are linked to it.
 * Don't worry about rushing into making actual comments, I won't put the RfC live before the weekend. I'm hoping to prettify it, and sort out the blurb, which is why I started spamming people who are more clever than me at setting up these sorts of things! <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 13:20, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * oops .. sorry .. missed that "not live" part. Feel free to strike my thoughts. Chedzilla (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it, it doesn't really do any harm to have some comments early. It's not an RfA ;) <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 08:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Move
With all due respect, i don't think much of your move of WP:WADR. benzband ( talk ) 12:59, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * (How much respect is that?) I'm not crazy about it myself, but I searched for articles in Wikipedia space whose names began with "Don't", and seriously, they were all (that I saw) redirects to the "do not" form. It looks like there are wikignomes out there who make a career out of moving "don't" titles to "do not". I thought I might as well thwart them by doing it myself. But you know, I certainly won't revert you if you would like to move it back. That can be done unproblematically, since the redirect hasn't been edited. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:35, 27 July 2012 (UTC).
 * I really mind care. It was just an opportunity to make use of the wicked phrase… :)  be arsed to move it back, either. My uttermost sincere regards,  benzband  ( talk ) 14:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I fixed your comment, Benzband, to conform to evolving Wikipedia standards. Cleaning up after Bishonen in these matters is time consuming enough, although she is evidently learning her place; please save me some time and take more care in your editing. "I hope this helps. Cheers". --Floquenstein&#39;s monster (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Even more evolution: <del ></del> and <ins ></ins> are preferred for semantic reasons. Darwinfish would have been delighted if he'd spotted that first. --T-RexxS (Rawr) 16:21, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for publicly pointing out my ignorance, I'll use them in the future. But, more importantly... DarwinFish is a dude?! I had no idea. I always thought "she" was kind of hot (*adjusts fantasy slightly to be more open minded*). --Floquenstein&#39;s monster (talk) 16:47, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh gee. Haven't I mentioned my gormless brother "Fish the silly-minnow-with-feet" like a million times? How dare you not follow my valuable editing and frequent biting of my weenie twin, monster? Too busy cybering with Bishzilla, are you? How does that contribute to building an encyclopedia, may I ask? You should be blocked the pair of you. [Goes off to tell Darwinfish that a scary monster is having fantasies about him. He'll be petrified, haha! ]  darwin bish  BITE 17:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC).
 * @The monster: I'm so sorry you feel the need to stalk 'n' "correct" my edits. Methinks it ain't as if contractions did much harm, savvy?
 * @The fish: Welcome to Wikipedia, darwinbish. However, your conduct ledes me to believe that you are somewhat not here to build an encyclopedia. I shall now proceed to revert all your edits. 'Nuff said! benzband  ( talk ) 08:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I laugh at your hollow threats. [Snottily :] Next time you choose to "welcome" an established editor you may wish to use Template:Oldwelcome. Here are my first contributions, which I believe predate your own by some margin. And here is my currently running RFA, where you may see the considerable support my unstinting efforts to teach everybody a lesson have garnered among the experienced and the judicious. [Even more snottily :] Possibly your own failure to appreciate my work reflects your inexperience, so I will naturally make allowances.   darwin bish  BITE 13:32, 28 July 2012 (UTC).


 * Frankly though, how can you get anyone to believe that? As it happens, i must have at least twice you edit count (and if i don't, i soon will 'cuz there's half a dozen cool but pointless automated tools waiting handy).
 * (flushes goldfish down toilet, BTW i shall bump off more if you carry on trying to get the last word)
 * So long and thanks for all the fish, Darwin. I'm out to get you. benzband  ( talk ) 14:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * [Way ahead of you. User:Bish and chips, a long-time Wikipedia editor when you were still in short pants, surfaces after some decades of hibernation. ] You rang? Where's that fish and chips? Bish and chips (talk) 16:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC).


 * ZOMG! I didn't know that fish ware socks!
 * *kills another fish* (i swear i hate doing this) *fries in batter* Wotcher, you're next! benzband  ( talk ) 18:32, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Pfft - you needn't think that soft suit will save you. --T-RexxS (Rawr) 20:05, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. Things are getting pretty ugly :( Time to unleash my pet megalodon. benzband  ( talk ) 19:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Anyone for megalodon and chips? --T-RexxS (Rawr) 20:11, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at this: BTW, who's in for some hallucinogenic fish 'n chips…? benzband ( talk ) 20:25, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hehehehehe! [Darwinbish is immensely tickled. ] What a BIG Little Ankle Biter! Excellent! Can reach to bite the little blue user in the image shrewdly on the ass without even jumping! Flattering portrait! :-) "Jaws" Darwinbish (talk) 21:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC).

Incidentally
... and before I forget, you had better run for ArbCom this year, or I'll be forced to bring out ... the comfy chair! There is no better cure for cold than bringing in some warmth. &mdash; Coren (talk) 21:45, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Some global warming, you mean. Well, to pick one objection out of a hatful of obvious ones: an arbcom campaign might get people looking at my edits and noticing how meagre and frivolous they are nowadays, with various excuses about health and so on. (It's a mystery how this terminally frail woman finds the time to run a conglomerate of socks) A little embarrassing. But if the darwinbish makes admin (HINT HINT, support here), she might well like to run. How about you? Are you considering a come-back? [Encouragingly: ] You really should. It's the unpaid job from hell. Bishonen &#124; talk 18:10, 30 July 2012 (UTC).
 * I'll respond to that once I've managed to determine whether encouraging me to run again is (a) a vote of confidence in my ability to do the job or (b) an attempt to destroy what's left of my sanity. :-)  &mdash; Coren (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good summary, just lose the "or". These things are always both. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC).
 * ArbCom is obviously a huge time wasting task from hell which will be only be rewarded with perpetual aggravation. I sincerely hope both of you (Bishonen and Coren) are foolish enough to run. Nobody Ent 20:05, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks and Ze
Thankee for the addendum, in that ani thread. If alan and yourself hadn't said anything, I would have been fearing the crickets and tumbleweeds! I'd been waiting for a chastisement or agreement or challenge or development... Conversation-killing is not the superpower I ordered... >.> [Ah well, at least I'm used to it. The curse of the summarizer!]

Unrelatedly: I just came back from an extended wikibreak, well-recharged, and resonant with multi-perspectivism. I see your note at the pagetop, and it sounds like you need some more Ze, too! So I'll repeat a recent comment from elsewhere:

Did you see/enjoy the zefrank video I linked? That man sometimes makes my face hurt from excess smiling. A purveyor of beautifully stated epiphanies. I strongly and warmly recommend 1 or 2 a day.

(*/me resists the urge to deluge you with futher examples and background and tangents*) ttfn -- Quiddity (talk) 00:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That's lovely, but, err, me, really? You're thanking me for adding a support here? Well, I was referring to your comment, albeit in a rather silly/annoying way, with the old cross-out joke… I don't know how to put this… but are you sure you weren't meaning to thank someone else?


 * I thought your comment was very cool and thought-provoking, but yes, you did add it rather late, and when that happens on ANI, the tumbleweeds tend to move in. Presumably people start to feel all talked out at some point, and to resist having their thoughts provoked. Btw I've never had any personal experience of tangling with AM. But I've been around for long enough to have read 1,000,000,000 ANI threads about the frustrations it entails, and to have seen the way he invariably responds to such concerns. I do believe I never took part in one of those threads before… but I'm clearly getting less tolerant and generally nastier (as you saw above) — burnout is no doubt the proper term — and my own recent wikibreak has only left those very qualities invigorated, ha ha [malevolent cackle]. (Hello there, Heimstern and Floquenbeam! I made myself think of you guys there, for some reason!) Bishonen &#124; talk 10:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC).
 * Hey, I'll take what I can get! (Hell, I've emailed 4 people asking for advice, over the last couple weeks, trying to get some preliminary feedback on what I'd been drafting before posting it, and none of them have even replied with a "too busy, sorry" :/ ).
 * Plus, it was a legitimate excuse to both extol the virtues of ze (everyone needs more ze), and to say hello (I've seen your name and edits (and the memetic fallout) around for years!). So, yar! -- Quiddity (talk) 11:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Memetic fallout? [Effortfully switches on high culture sensor. ] You mean the socks? (Even some of them are burnt out.) I'm actually just reading Dawkins now — not The Selfish Gene, but The God Delusion — and he mentions a book called The Selfish Meme. Clever title… I may read that next. :-)


 * It can be disheartening to get no response, yes. [With fake tolerance :] I suppose we may blame the holidays or something. [Passive-aggressively :] Compare this pathos-filled, yet ignored, edit-summary appeal for a little welcome back after an absence which obviously none of my so-called friends... oh, never mind! Never mind! [Weeps.] Bishonen &#124; talk 14:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC).


 * Yes, socks. Your socks are glorious. [You've seen kirsten johnson's paintings? I often think of those, when I see a proto-bish. :]


 * But, Never mind the Bullocks [strains to match velocities :] Did you enjoy (or already know, or detest) Ze Frank?? [inquiring minds want to know].


 * As with the laboriously written (and over-delayed) post at ANI, I've got a point [I'm not a spoon] and I just might badger until a response is forthcoming! [or something. First coffee is still brewing. Everything currently hurts.] -- Quiddity (talk) 22:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * [Bishzilla is interested by Kirsten Johnson's sockpuppets. She thinks the "Demure" sock is a lot like herself, in character if not looks. ] Get over yourself, Bishzilla. No, I wasn't aware of Ze Frank, nor of Kirsten Johnson. Good stuff both! I guess Bishzilla was always a zefrank follower without knowing it. You know, very concise. See the massive amounts of exformation in her one-word RfC "Outside view" here, and how it's effortlessly unpacked by her supporters. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC).

Welcome Back!
[Mollified. ] Was that so hard? Bishonen &#124; talk 14:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC).


 * Not at all. Now I'm going to be bugging you all day! Tex (talk) 14:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * [Apparently also love-starved. ] Hi Tex! Have you seen all the improvements I've made to my userpage? Looking way cool now! "Jaws" Darwinbish (talk) 14:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC).


 * Hi Little Ankle Bit...er, I mean, "Jaws"! Your page is beautiful!  All those portraits of...yourself.  How very....humble of you.  I'm very impressed!  Tex (talk) 15:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Great, aren't they, and don't I look BIG? See the darwinbish on the seamonster scale, with the little blue user for comparison? That db is nearly a meter long! Pretty scary, he he. "Jaws" Darwinbish (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC).


 * OH MY! I..I ... <tries to stop stammering> ... I think - We're gonna need a bigger boat. —   Ched  ZILLA  15:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The fatted goat
Tex got the last calf, so I had to make do with a goat. Make sure you share it out with the conglomerate before that reprobate T-RexxS spots it. Hugs, --RexxS (talk) 15:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * He he, I do remember the water trembling in the glasses. I might never have watched Jurassic Park or Alien for my own sake, but I watched them both with my son when he was nine or so. An enthralled nine-year-old co-watcher is the very thing for the scary movie experience. In case any of my TPWs are themselves nine years old, as so many wikipedians are, they might consider hiring out as scary-movie enhancers. Of course only unsophisticated nine-year-olds need apply, if [senile whine becoming perceptible ] there are still any such around. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC).

Question for master...
Since family already control Land and Sea ... will there be a User:Bishosaur joining the family to control the skies? —  Ched  ZILLA  15:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just you watch it, i've got my flak guns ready! benzband  ( talk ) 15:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. It's not widely known, but Bishzilla herself can actually fly, with the help of her little friend User:Powerzilla. Bishonen &#124; talk 15:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC).

Taste for adminnery...
... of course I don't think you would want to be one again. But I see no harm in using the tools one last time

Never forget this is a volunteer project. If it all becomes too much, you don't have to do anything at all. Egg  Centri  c  21:24, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * AGK hasn't edited today. Fuck. What a pity. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:40, 18 August 2012 (UTC).


 * No, I see he is there. Not usefully so, but then on the other hand Dennis has got his finger out. (A fruity old British expression which everybody may not understand. Anyway, he has restored talkpage access.) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:45, 18 August 2012 (UTC).

A barnstar for you!

 * Tenuously, sort of, here, though mainly for the infantile sock games. Well, and one or two deplorably adult sock games. Thanks, Puppe (that's German for dollface). Bishonen &#124; talk 22:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC).
 * Hmm, just saw that thread now. Guess it's a good thing I don't use little HeimAway that much; I don't approve of him getting into behaviours like that. Hmmph! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:28, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd
Love your motto, MONGO. It suits you and Bishzilla to a T! Love the lilac tree, too. Bishonen &#124; talk 09:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC).

Thank you
for editing the draft essay. I'm just about to go to bed so I don't have time to look at your edits, but I'm very grateful that you made them and got involved. It's the first essay I've ever attempted, so any feedback and changes are welcome. Thanks! OohBunnies!  (talk)  23:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * [Encouraged, me shortens it to six words. ] Small is beautiful! ;-) Bishonen &#124; talk 23:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC).
 * [Diagnosing other editors is bad, yo.] :)  OohBunnies!   (talk)  00:26, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

ANI vs. ATG
Thanks for your comments. I really wish that section would be closed. JoeSperrazza (talk) 00:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm busy spamming Heimstern, Floquenbeam, MastCell and Ched right now. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC).
 * Done. Of course by "spamming" I meant I was informing them as a courtesy that I had mentioned their names. Not that I expect even those guys to be able to make any difference, since the first cowboy to block holds all the cards at ANI. But maybe I can inspire them to desysop themselves... oh, hell, I hope not! So I suppose I agree, Joe: I wish it would be closed.  Bishonen &#124; talk 00:25, 28 August 2012 (UTC).

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 18:51, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, Rex. Thanks for your tip on the best use of an olive branch. It's rather a good representation of my sole experience of WP:RFM so far, with the delinquent and the dominatrix representing respectively myself and the gurus of WP:RFM. Hence these edits. All water under the bridge, I know. No use crying over spilt milk under the bridge, etc, etc. Still. Those that forget history are doomed to etc etc etc. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC).
 * . MastCell Talk 20:39, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you do that "anchor" thing? WP:ANCHOR is Greek to me. Would somebody like to do a version for dummies? (P.S. No, I know your link wasn't to do with anchors, but the mention of it in the edit summary made me think of the old enigma.) Bishonen &#124; talk 20:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC).
 * User talk:Bishonen should link straight to the end of The Olive Branch's post up above because I added to the end of the post. Best to open the link in a new window to see the full effects. <b style="color:navy;">NW</b> ( Talk ) 21:00, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * [Bishonen fetches Darwinfish. Together they stare at the explanation in ignorance and despair. Light breaks very, very slowly. So simple!] Ah… I think we've got it. Thank you, Nuke. [Goes off to add a few anchors here and there. Will it really work? ] Bishonen &#124; talk 21:09, 4 September 2012 (UTC).
 * (Alternate explanation) In any given section header, you just add . Except of course that you replace ANCHOR NAME with the anchor text you want to use. The stuff between the curly braces won't show up when people view the page - it just creates an invisible HTML anchor for you. So if your section heading looked like this: == On the uses of an olive branch ==  ... then you'd add the anchor like this:  ==  On the uses of an olive branch ==  The two versions would look identical when viewed by the reader, but the second version creates an anchor that you could use (#Olive branch). Does that make sense? Score another one for Wikipedia's accessibility... :) MastCell Talk 21:02, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem, of course is that the little "go directly to section arrow thingy" in the edit summary gets broken when you do that. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:11, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is why you should always anchor within a section, not in the heading. If you wish to go to the beginning of a section, add the anchor immediately below the heading. KillerChihuahua ?!? 21:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but then it doesn't show the section heading when you go to the anchor. My preference is to anchor right above the section heading, but I was viciously reverted just now when I tried to fix it. Trying to decide now what dispute resolution process to report MastCell to... if only there was a publication or newsletter or something devoted to such questions... --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:26, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) No no no... KC, don't encourage him. The template documentation suggests using the anchor within the section title. I feel an ArbCom case coming on, which will make the ndash-mdash war look almost petty and insignificant... MastCell Talk 21:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * (e/c with Floquenbeam who complicated the issue some more. Arrowy thingy??) (another e/c with Puppy) (if there is now a third e/c, I guess I'll give up for today) ( fourth fifth e/c. Floquenbeam, for the love of Jimbo, will you let up?????) Oh noes, I had it, and now I've lost it again. :-( MastCell, why would I want to use the anchor method at a section header? This is one of the things that's been discombobulating me at WP:ANCHOR. There's a much simpler way of linking to section headers described in Diffs and links for dummies, a page I wrote, you know. (Always assisting the dummies! The history doesn't show it, because somebody else naughtily copypaste-moved it from my userspace to wikipedia space. Faintly annoying, but then there's no such thing as pride of creation on Wikipedia, is there? Or is there?) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC).
 * It's all down to html's " " . There must be only 1 usage of any "id" per-page. Our ==Headers== autocreate ids, and just creates a     The older (html4) method was "named anchor links", eg "  which also must be unique per-page (using name= like this is a hack of form-submission-code, iirc). To see clearly, view source. The main reason to care, is if on a (non-wiki) website you want to bookmark or link to a place that's partway down - Just View->Source and look for a id=... or name=... and then stuff that variable after a # in the url. (correct me if I'm wrong.) -- Quiddity (talk) 23:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Mastcell:: But you see, I'm right and they're wrong. Obviously.  :-P  KillerChihuahua ?!? 21:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * so ... In for a penny, in for a "#"? — Ched : ?  23:07, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In for a[n] octothorpe?!?! That sounds.... kinky...? -- Quiddity (talk) 23:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * kinky? .. Oh my no - not me, I always try to maintain my dignity. Although my 'Zilla has been known to flirt a bit with another 'Zilla' in the past.  But then, 'Zillas do tend to do that. — Ched :  ?  23:42, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Please do not post to my talk page ever again
This is your first formal warning. Please do not post to my talk page ever again. ~ GabeMc  (talk 22:54, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Good. I'd hate to get an informal warning. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:57, 4 September 2012 (UTC).
 * Actually, I agree with you. It was silly of me to post on your page. I was upset at seeing you speak so dickishly to LessH, who is much missed on Wikipedia, and who edited today for the first time since July. But I would have done better to leave you alone. I'm sorry. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:09, 4 September 2012 (UTC).

Unpromising usernames
Great minds think alike (see #14). MastCell Talk 18:09, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've had my eye on registering User:CampaignForFairAndBalancedJustice so that I could have an innocuous-sounding login for public locations. --RexxS (talk) 18:39, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Fairness And Accuracy For All got himself into trouble sometime back in an ArbCom case when I was the Clerk. The final decision was to prohibit him from editing, whereupon I had the task of posting on the noticeboards that "Fairness And Accuracy For All has been banned from Wikipedia." (Insert punchline here.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "What, it used to be allowed??" Bishonen &#124; talk 19:03, 6 September 2012 (UTC).
 * P. S. Fair Treatment, too, seems likely to be banned soon. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:31, 10 September 2012 (UTC).
 * This type of name, which recently popped up on my watchlist, is also highly unpromising. However, oddly enough, I went to the usertalk to cavil but stayed to support. That can occasionally be the charm of this place: the unexpected. (Which may indeed turn again into the expected, if I should be insane enough to get more deeply involved in the nightmarish kind of subjects that are sur le tapis over there.) Bishonen &#124; talk 19:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC).
 * I think User:WarriorForTruthAndAbsoluteJustice is more subtle than User:CampaignForFairAndBalancedJustice, Rexxs. KillerChihuahua ?!? 11:47, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

rrawrrRR Sorry.
my apologies (real one) for not getting back to your essay, and responding to a legitimate discussion. I'm perfectly fine with tweaks, changes, or removals of anything I added to WP:NOTSORRY. I think that effort is coming along quite fine indeed, and I believe one of my 'Zilla friends quite agrees with me. On side note: my master come crawl back in my pocket - say it scary place out in wikiworld. I pat him on head, ... tell him it will all work out and not be feared. Not sure when he come back, but he like the honesty in in I'm sorry you screwed up too. He think it possible that links to both it and WP:WADR should be hitting main-space ASAP. Also mention to Bish the Knife that we left her/him/it/them .. a plate of ankle food to feast on. Been many years since played with paint programs .. sorry quality so poor. Leave you with hearty rrawrRRRRR —  Ched  ZILLA  23:39, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi young zilla. Good thing Chedzilla possess spiderman suit with convenient master-carrying pocket! When apologising, simpler use macro saying "I'm sorry I screwed up", just punch hotkey for inserting it. Bishonen apparently do so now. Er, do Chedzilla think it safe encourage worst proclivities of naughty little Darwinbish, give her dish of ankles to eat (yuk)?    bishzilla     ROA R R! !    12:09, 10 September 2012 (UTC).
 * Ahhh .. Spidy suit was gracious gift from Bish family -- Ta very much. Also think it better that little ankle biter have food, is dangerous to have "da knife" running about on empty stomach IMHO.  On another note - I noticed a post to Giano's talk - and wanted to congratulate you on your recovery.  Wiki is much poorer when you're not available to assist young users.  Chedzilla want ALL members of Bish family to stay strong, healthy, and happy.  Have a great weekend Ms. Bishonen.  All my best always. :)))) —   Ched  ZILLA  13:16, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Featured wikiword of the week
<div style="border:1px solid #99B3FF; background-color:#EECCFF; width:310px; margin:1px auto; padding:4px;"> as used by Tryptofish: "I'm a little policy-ed out after that footnote discussion."
 * The featured wikiword of the week is "Policy-ed out"

Arbitration Committee
You don't know me but it's impossible not to know (something about) you here. Would you consider running for the committee this time please? You've got the experience, brains and sensibility, and the latter, particularly, is badly lacking there. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually I was just getting here for the same reason Bish. I saw NYB's post here, and after running through a few folks I complete my journey here.  I think we all know that is where you should be.  You have a wonderful combination of common sense, insight, honesty, integrity and it is all tempered by such a huge heart filled with compassion.  You have the time served, you've suffered the time in purgatory, you've been witness to so much history - your insight would be invaluable at Arbcom.  Please consider an honest run at it?  I know the history of Bishxxx humor and all - but I ask this without any intent of jokes.  Please think about it?  Please? —   Ched  ZILLA  03:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you both very much for the kind words, but please see my incidental self-declaration here. Also, my wikitime is simply too limited in recent years. My wikipatience always was. Lately, Darwinbish has been dropping hints all over the place that she wants to run, but I'm frankly not sure she'd have even my vote. A suggestion: you might want to go pester User:Worm That Turned to run again this year. He's a very calm, insightful, and experienced guy, who was beaten to the post last year by a mere 0.5% by Jclemens. IMO things might have been a little different here if it had been the other way around. And, importantly, Worm doesn't seem to be as burnt-out as the rest of the universe of calm, insightful, and experienced wikipedians, such as Heimstern, Floquenbeam, MastCell. At least a year ago, he actually wanted to be an arb. Sadly, that's getting to be an increasingly rare qualification.


 * P.S. By the way, little zilla, I saw a similar rousing call from you to RexxS. Good idea, except he's a member of the Wikimedia UK board.. I can't imagine he'd want that many hats, and I expect there'd be an issue of propriety, too. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC).


 * I've thought for years that you'd be perfect for the job, and still do. Mmm. I understand about the time thing, though. It's a bit of a commitment.


 * I thought asking MastCell would be futile, but did anyway. (No response yet.) I'd feel a bit odd approaching the WormTT because, not only does he not know me, I don't know him. Hopefully someone closer to him will ask. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll think about what you have said. And by the way .. I really don't care about any of the US vs. UK stuff...—   Ched  ZILLA  14:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Since I've been mentioned, and in case anyone's wondering about me: Burnt-out-ness aside, I, like Bish, really don't have wikitime for arbitrating. I don't know how Risker does it. Wish I could, though; I criticize so much I really feel like I ought to offer my own services instead. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:46, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * What about this: you both take it on, and MastCell, and Carcharoth, and do your best with the time you have? It's got to be an improvement on the present situation, even if you have to decline a few marginal cases. My last word. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * My ears are burning, unsurprising since a certain lady knows I watch her page! Thank you for your kind comments above, I'm pretty sure I don't deserve them but I'll certainly accept them :) As to whether I'll run or not, I really haven't decided. I've gone through phases this year of really enjoying everything wikipedia and little phases of distaste for the project. I'm astounded at some of the stupidity at Arbcom, from both the cases presented and the comments made. Especially, right now, I wonder how it can turn people I respected into people who would use a request for clarification into a ban against such community uproar. Do I want to be part of that? Would I become part of the problem?
 * When I drive on British motorways, there are lots of idiots in the fast lane, in their fancy German cars, tailgating and acting like idiots. I would drive my Yaris and tut. Then, my dad went sailing for a month and left me his Audi to look after. I found that everything about the car encouraged that behaviour, the comfort, the power, the silence,... It all lead to me driving faster and more aggressively. Where does the line get drawn, when sensible people become idiots. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 20:36, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You're very shrewd, Worm. This is a belated reply, but I've been mulling over it somewhat, and RL kept getting in the way. Power encourages aggressive driving, yeah. Mind you, some people of no special wikiposition (I'm heroically resisting linking that to a particular one-man lynch-mob I'm thinking of right now) seem able to get drunk on road-rage even while driving a Lada. Comfort and silence are hardly among the factors encouraging obliviousness on arbcom right now! Although on their own sekrit mailing list, arbs who are so inclined can always enjoy the comfort of crowding the Yarises off the road in silence/private without fear of any comeback (until there's a leak on WR or its successors, that is). I have some experience of that. All right, car metaphor breaking down… I don't drive anything myself, I'm strictly public transport + bike, and I like to think it hasn't made me any nicer! Anyway, generally speaking, users with good judgment are more likely than others to be elected to the committee, even though the selection has been known to work badly and even on occasion disastrously. (And those I will link! There's nothing new there, after all.) The majority of arbs seem well aware of the need for resisting the temptations of office, IMO. The worst part of being an arb, it seems to me, must be the culture of silence, of "never apologize, never explain", of presenting a united front — a culture that's somewhat unravelling before our eyes right now, but which was in full force when things blew up with regard to, uh, the other arb I just linked to, and which will no doubt knit itself up again. That is one of my own strongest reasons for disappointing the cheering multitude (see, two people!) who try to persuade me to run (that, and my enjoyment of being urged, and modestly pushing the crown away), not least because I've seen how it's likely to sour previous friendships. The sheer busyness plays a part there too, of course. Take me, I've had friends… and then they were arbs for a term or two… and then… well, I won't go into it. Some of them never post here any more, and perhaps wouldn't be all that welcome if they did. (But I don't mean you, Paul! You're always welcome here!) It's a shame when that happens. :-( Bishonen &#124; talk 16:00, 25 October 2012 (UTC).
 * Good to know. Paul August &#9742; 20:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The cardinality of the multitude would have been greater if not for the rapidity of the wet blanket with which you slapped the idea down. (Understandbly so, as ArbCom is our own version of Wiki-22 -- we don't want crazy people to be on it, but I think you'd have to be a little bit crazy to run -- a massive unpaid time sink for the privilege of nearly non-stop abuse and aggravation.) Nobody Ent 16:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


 * (e/c) After reading his insightful comments above, I think I may vote for WTT whether he runs or not (surely there's going to be an involuntary write-in mechanism?). I also plan on writing in Bishonen, Bishzilla, and DarwinBish (all three) MastCell, and User:Immature Basophil, so that's 6 right there. I'm sure I can think of a few others who would initially refuse but could ultimately be forced at gunpoint to serve. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:30, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Let's see, there's also User:Little Stupid, User:Darwinfish, User:Bish and chips, User:Gooch, User:Bearded Burro, User:Baby Tex and User:Floquenstein's monster. Now, THAT's an arbcom! Tex (talk) 19:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * And little User:Chedzilla!   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    10:03, 26 October 2012 (UTC).


 * Baby Tex will fit seamlessly, for sure. Proposed finding of fact: Horsh! And guess what, Floq, I have discovered by brilliant research that there is actually a User:Cat smell, although as you can see they (ho! hum! who could it possibly be!) don't have any userpages. And dead or not, User:Catherine de Burgh (the late) will live forever in legend and in song, and deserves all our votes. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:09, 25 October 2012 (UTC).
 * I am authorised to point out that you are mistaken Mrs Bishonen. Due to the happy miracle of cryogenics and modern science, Her ladyship is restored to full health  and currently cruising on her steam yacht in the Balearics.  As Wikipedia’s constitutional monarch and official head of state, Her Ladyship will be returning in December to appoint her  Arbcom and permit their ceremonial kissing of her hand. She will also be making a Christmas Eve broadcast to the people of Wikipedia, and announcing her New Year’s honours list. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 08:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, Miss Corpus, I suppose in a way that's good news, but… are you saying that User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh is no longer active? :-( That's tragic. Bishonen &#124; talk 09:56, 26 October 2012 (UTC).
 * That's good news indeed. I always thought the ceremony of kissing Lady Catherine's hand much more salubrious than the sight of the newly-appointed arbitrators lining up to kiss Jimbo's ring. --Famously Sharp (talk) 16:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm feeling a little more positive towards it at least, perhaps you have turned me! I've got some real life bits and bobs happening, it may affect things - but overall, I probably will run. I've heard the downsides, and I think I can handle them. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 11:34, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thats very nice to know, Mr Worm, and I sure Her Ladyship will be very pleased to appoint you to be 2nd Wikipedian. As for you, Mrs Bishonen, I can assure you that Her Ladyship is very active indeed, but now that she's head-of-state and 1st Wikipedian, you can't expect her to descend and post on pages such as yours - allthough I beleive you did have regretable dealings with the previous, unfortunate incumbent of that high office - you may, however, post on her page and she may find the time to address you in audience. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 11:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Why thank you Miss Corpus, though I do not expect Her Ladyship to concern herself with the likes of me. Indeed, I am personally hoping that she will time the unveiling her reanimated cadaver, the zenith of the social dilettante, to coincide with the Mayan apocalypse, whenceforth she can rule the encyclopedia with an iron fist. However, in general, my personal wishes do not come to fruition, so perhaps there will be difficulties. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 12:09, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Got it, Miss Corpus, the Ladyship is active. Spiffing, but I meant, what about the Ka? I fear this means we've lost her ? :-( Bishonen &#124; talk 12:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

I feel this is my territory rather than that of Miss Corpus, who should not be opining on Her Ladyship’s spiritual matters. In fact, Miss Corpus should confine herself to her secretarial duties and her typewriter. At the court of Lady Catherine, we all have our areas of expertise and Miss Corpus should stick to hers limited though that is. On the subject of Her Ladyship’s Ka that belongs to the paranormal, and where the paranormal and Her Ladyship are concerned nothing must ever be presumed or assumed because both are likely to rear up behind you when you least expect it. Something Miss Corpus would do well to remember if she keeps interfering into my responsibilities and attempting to ingratiate herself with Lady Catherine. Rev Dr Augustus Deepthought (talk) 12:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure the Reverend Doctor knows his stuff, but it is most likely that the ka will have been reincorporated in Her Ladyship in order to revive her. If Imhoptep is anything to go by I think you should worry more that she'll be after various organs to replace those placed in canopic jars. I'm not sure all this zombie stuff is what we expect of the aristocracy anyway, they normally have the good grace to stay dead unless their resurrection is required for a ludicrous storyline in Downton Abbey. Yomangani talk 13:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, your duties seem remarkably diverse, Reverend Doctor, though I note you're edit-warring to conceal the fact. Perhaps Miss Corpus and Imhoptep are more reliable sources. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

Your proposed motion
I have removed your proposed motion, as only arbitrators may propose motions. If you wish to suggest a way forward to the arbitrators, I suggest you make a statement instead. --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 13:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * ? I have not proposed a motion. That was RegentsPark. I merely called for a clerk to remove it. That was sarcasm. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:43, 22 October 2012 (UTC).
 * tb. - Sitush (talk) 13:46, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that was very careless of me not to check the history more thoroughly. --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 14:00, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Mmmmm..... yes. [[File:Misc-tpvgames.gif]] Bishonen &#124; talk 14:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC).

Opinion?
Hi.

Can I ask your opinion about this, if you're interested? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm. Mmmmm. OK. Aren't you sorry you asked? Bishonen &#124; talk 18:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC).
 * (P.S. Don't know what happened with the two saves. I seem to have got an edit conflict with myself.)


 * Not yet. I like having my mind changed. Answered there. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

More insipid than casual
Regarding the following text:"This user loves the sound of their own voice. You probably think that if you ignore them they might eventually shut up, but you reckon without their inflated sense of their own importance."Inconveniently, the English language no longer provides its users with gender-neutral, singular pronouns. While the regal we, us, and ours might be applied to comedic effect, the pronouns they, them, and their are exclusively plural.

As you have indicated you are on something of a vacation, I have ginned up some grammatically-correct options:"This user loves the sound of his own voice. Those who expect to win another's silence by ignoring him will be disappointed by this user's inflated sense of self-importance." "This user loves the sound of his own voice. Those who expect to win this user's silence by ignoring him fail to account for his inflated sense of self-importance." "This user loves the sound of his own voice. Anyone expecting to win this user's silence by ignoring him fails to account for this user's inflated sense of self-importance."Patronanejo (talk) 12:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You're mistaken, they, them and their are not exclusively plural. They were once, but they aren't now. Is it a rule that they're exclusively plural? No. Who says they are? Not the grammarians. Ignorant schoolteachers who formed their notions on the matter long ago, possibly. It's a pity that many people seem to get their notions of "grammar rules" from that class of schoolteachers (who are in the minority, I'm sure). They, them and their may not be ideal for referring to a single person of no specified gender, but they're what we've got. Going back to privileging the masculine pronoun would be regress. In this case, since I'm myself of a determinate gender (female) it would be positively weird if the template on my userpage called me "he". If you'd like to subst it and edit it to refer to a "she", be my guest, I've no objection. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:45, 23 October 2012 (UTC).
 * To bluntly put it: neither me or Bish follow the rules that 18th-century grammarians came up with. Yomangani talk 13:14, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * i believe you might mean "neither Bish nor I".... apologies for the intrusion. kc15:33, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe he didn't, Killer. Are you not used to the Yoman's manner of making a point in a way that's suitable to the occasion? Note the strange word order, too: "To bluntly put it". (Though perhaps indeed he did mean to say "the rules up with which 18th-century grammarians came.")Bishonen &#124; talk 15:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

Thank you for the invitation, but I'm not that fanatical--I was compelled to visit by a mention in Encylopaedia Dramatica. By no means am I going to impose my will on another's user page, but by no means am I mistaken. This is not a matter of pedantry, or an anachronistic refusal to accept language as a fluid medium. I have no objection to the casual use of the object pronoun me in place of the subject pronoun I (as Yomangani  does above), but its opposite--the use of the subject pronoun Iin place of the object pronoun me--is insipid-sounding and wrong, no matter how many times you hear people trying to make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Although schoolteachers who know the difference may well be in the minority, they are not the ignorant ones--you've got it completely backwards. Treating the pronouns they, them, and their as though they were singular is not even acceptable on the pages of USA Today.

However, you deserve an apology for my inability to determine whether your username indicated a male- or female user--ignorance is ignorance.Patronanejo (talk) 13:24, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Patronanejo, following the Wikipedia has an article on everything principle... Wikipedia has an article on this phenomenon, singular they. Perhaps you'll find it interesting, even if you do find it insipid. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 13:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "inability to determine whether your username indicated a male- or female" is a damn fine case for using singular "they". <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">pablo  15:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not especially keen on singular they in formal writing, but it's generally accepted in common speech, and a userbox is common speech. Even the Chicago manual seems in agreement with its use in common speech (which is admittedly hardly the province of the Chicago manual). Heimstern Läufer (talk) 11:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Shakespeare is also in agreement with the singular use. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC).
 * Along with Jane Austen and William M. Thackery. August company, indeed. KillerChihuahua ?!? 15:29, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it wasn't the province of Chicago until Chicago had the bizarre idea of getting some "language maven" who has only a hazy notion of English grammar to utter on English grammar. (See this.) Still, even the hapless Garner gets some things right. &para; No, the place to look is the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, which points out that singular they has been with us since Middle English. &para; To anyone who continues to bleat that they is necessarily plural and he is sex-neutral, try asking (i) how it is that the extension of a term that normally has plural reference to include singular is grammatically (or logically or whatever) more heinous than the extension of a term that normally has male reference to include female, and (ii) about the acceptability of "Ask your father or your mother if he would like a ticket for the concert." -- Hoary (talk) 14:54, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * As ever rules are more subtle than the grammarians give them credit: in that case the construct would be "either of them" for singular and "they" for plural. Nonetheless  singular they left the English language and returned, and now can be used carefully where needed.  Rich Farmbrough, 04:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC).

Reciprocity
Bishonen,

Please leave a warning against SM for his personal attacks or stay off my page. Kiefer .Wolfowitz  23:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Your removal of a post to your page by Scott Macdonald where he undertakes never to post on your page again with the edit summary "Don't post here again" demonstrates your battleground mentality in a nice little nutshell, KW. As for me, do not be concerned; I'll only post on your page again if I have a block message to give you, not for any other purpose. Of course you will reciprocally stay off mine. Won't you? Bishonen &#124; talk 23:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC).
 * I've had no interest in you since your last accusations that I and Lihaas were supporting the Sverigedemokraterna, and you in fact suggested a mutual interaction ban, which you violated by posting more ... oh how should I say this, ..., oh ,,,Bishonenisms. I trust you can supply the diff
 * ScottMacdonald wrote personal attacks. If he wishes to uphold civility, then he
 * To answer your question, I repeat that I've no interest in you, and if you stop the questions and snide comments, I'll certainly resume the no interaction ban you originally proposed, and which I've kept. Kiefer  .Wolfowitz  23:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess a polite suggestion didn't impress you. Perhaps you'll understand this language: don't post on my page again. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC).

Harumph!
Just saw this. What am I, chopped liver? Tex (talk) 14:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You're Bishzilla's friend. But seriously, you haven't been around much, have you? Bishonen &#124; talk 15:49, 29 October 2012 (UTC).
 * I'm usually lurking in the background somewhere. However, RL things happening at the moment may lead to me being gone for good soon.  I'll e-mail ya later.  I was just hoping for more friends to come by and say hello since you were feeling lonely or something.  Tex (talk) 12:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * (*disengages cloaking device*) I'll come by and say hello. "Hello, Bish! Hello Tex!" (*re-engages cloaking device*) --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Floq! :) Tex (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well despite all the hints, I'm not leaving. I'd have spoken up sooner, but I only just got back from two days in London, training and interviewing. I'll bring you a present later. --RexxS (talk) 21:49, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shaukat Ali Abdul Ghafoor (2nd nomination)
Hey, Bishonen, just FYI: I deleted the page per author request (and G11, really) and closed the AfD, but I'ma pass on salting it myself, at least for now. It's only been made twice since 2010, so unless he re-creates it again, I don't think it's a huge deal. Your thoughts? EDIT: hmmm, although now that I look at it, it's pretty much the same stuff that was deleted from the first AfD... Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:01, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, no, I expect you're right. I don't feel strongly at all about salting it. I just thought since the subject isn't notable, there's zero chance of a sensible (non-vanity) article ever being written about it. But I understand from the history that the author removed a speedy template from the article. Hopefully we'll be able to simply speedy it if it should come back a third time. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC).

Alternative
As an Ent who is always looking for opportunities to improve his cleverness, do you have a preferred synonym/replacement/enhancement for the time honored "rope" concept? Nobody Ent 02:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Now look what you've done, you've made me use a cliché to counter yours. Have you studied the case of Penyulap? The idea of setting him up and then lying in wait for missteps is crass in and of itself. The particular problem with using the metaphor of "enough rope" is that it's an attempt to dress up an unattractive idea in a would-be clever and colourful metaphor. There are too many "time-honoured" concepts knocking about Wikipedia, handily enshrined in essay shortcuts and offering a cheap sheen to thoughtless discourse. The popular, perhaps once witty, "Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass comes to mind. Funny how often there's a dimension of violence involved, but that's a thought for another day. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:36, 1 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Quite independently (because I've only just noticed these discussions...) I've just started writing a little essay on the and other contradictions on wikipedia. User:Worm That Turned/Contradictions <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 11:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you saying Penyulap's tpa should have not been restored? Nobody Ent 11:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * (Ha, did you skip over my first sentence on Elen's page to get to the bit where you saw your name?) I'm unsure about restoring it without also unblocking. Actually, I wanted to make a pitch for unblocking instead, but.. well, there's been a hitch, not of a nature I want to spread around, sorry. Anyway, what I principally wanted to say on Elen's page comes in the last sentence, directed at Elen and hopefully noticeable even though I put it meekly: Pen should definitely not now have tpa easily or hastily disabled again. And any enable/disable cycle should fucking not be used as an argument against ever unblocking him, either. NE, I'm not sure you shouldn't have let this stay on Elen's page, as it inevitably involves her actions and declarations. Never mind, I expect she'll see this. Bishonen &#124; talk 14:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; background-color: #ddd; border: 5px solid #ddd; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 0.5em;"><p style="text-align: center; margin-bottom: 0;">'tis the season
 * Of course you didn't say that, I was making a rhetorical point. What I observed is two editors I respect (RF and Elen) apparently stuck in an interaction that neither of them seemed to be enjoying and appeared to have a straightforward solution. I used the existing rope essay as shorthand for the concept that unblocks are cheap and no lasting harm to Wikipedia would occur if it turned out not to work.You have a valid point about the etymology of the phrase being sketchy; unfortunately WP:UNBLOCKS ARE CHEAP is redlinked and I don't have wikitime to write it today. I don't understand why folks are so concerned about blocked users posting on their talk page -- except for abuse of the unblock template the only way they can disrupt WP is if folks are stalking their talk page. Nobody Ent 16:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Some food for thought for all of you, - you played a good part in the title story ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Bishonen, I'd really rather you didn't contact me about Penyulap (or any other user for that matter) again. It seems from your comments above that you've drawn me into this whole thing on false pretences, and your aim all along was to get Penyulap unblocked. While you must act in whatever way strikes you as right, please don't involve me again. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you mean by the false pretences or my aim all along. It hasn't been my aim all along. I only lit on the notion that it was time to try an unblock three days ago. (And unlit from it the next day, because of an e-mail I received.) How did I draw you in, anyway? By getting RFAR'd by Jc37? I didn't do that on purpose, though I certainly appreciated the interest you showed in that case. But as you like, of course. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Given that I've now got you AND Rich having a go at me on my talkpage, is it any surprise that I'm not exactly overenthused. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that Arbs get to request no-interacts. I certainly got slapped down for doing so.
 * Neither Bish not I were "having a go" simply pointing out that you seemed to been a little overenthusiastic in blocking, not for the first time.
 * Rich Farmbrough, 18:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC).


 * Subtle as an air raid, Rich. If you and Bish ever feel like apologising for your attack of ABF which, I have to say, really upset me when I read it, I'm sure I'll accept it graciously. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Again I don't see where we assumed bad faith. I pointed out that what you saw as trolling clearly wasn't.  And I said it is bloody hard work to get you to change your mind.  If I had assumed bad faith I would have chosen a different venue than your talk page.  I am sorry you are upset, though if you have trouble with people questioning your admin decisions, then you have chosen the wrong project to be an admin on. Rich Farmbrough, 04:33, 2 November 2012 (UTC).


 * So I guess I'm not being trolled on Penyulap's talkpage currently. I must be imagining it. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:57, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I advised you to stop watching that page. Not the first time you have ignored my advice. Rich Farmbrough, 02:19, 3 November 2012 (UTC).


 * I couldn't believe you'd speak to me the way you did, Elen, after we've been good friends for years — I could feel my eyes widening as I took in your words on the screen. Perhaps it's the nature of the Internet, but it's still quite hurtful. My original post on your page (aka 'having a go at you'), apparently came at a bad time. That's a pity, but I still can't make out that it was other than mild in itself (certainly mild w r t you). Your accusations against me of deception and plotting are made out of beaten egg white and temper and bathetic wikipedia jargon ("ABF"). Anyway. This is your third post on my page after you asked me not to contact you any more, on the ground that I'd 'shown my hand' about my 'false pretences' etc. I think you're done here.


 * Originally I had composed a much more satisfying comment in my head, just seven words long, but, being born in a cold climate, I decided not to post it. You are an old friend, after all. Thanks for the good times, happy editing, good luck in the arbcom elections. Now sod off from my page. Bishonen &#124; talk 02:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC).

A cheeseburger for you!
Thanks for your friendly gesture, but I haven't been able to do anything for Penyulap. I'm not hungry. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:30, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Cake
Some cake for you. Because I thought maybe you would like some cake. And I wanted to give you some. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you little Heim. Bishonen is in a terminal sulk, but I'll graciously have it. [Gobble gobble.] Pity to let it go to waste. Next time please put cake directly on my page. [Staggers off, bloated.]  darwin bish  BITE 15:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC).

<br style="clear:both" />

Request that topic ban be lifted
Hi Bishonen,

I've made a request that the topic ban be lifted. I hope I can count on your support. NinaGreen (talk) 17:57, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting involved with that in either direction. I wasted enough of my life with the events surrounding the original RFAR:SAQ. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC).

Thanks
Thanks for the note about the alternative account and for the offer to adopt it. I'm going to decline, though, because I don't use alternative accounts. I've seen you around, too, and appreciate the good work your doing. I like your user name, too. I monitor mostly pseudoscience and fringe articles for POV pushing, and also keep an eye on LGBT related articles, especially those dealing with fringe groups. I look forward to working together with you in the future. Thanks for your help on the ACL article! Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 11:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. People who "monitor pseudoscience and fringe articles for POV pushing" are the unsung heroes of Wikipedia, IMO. (I can't face doing very much of it myself; I only checked out the ACL because I saw it mentioned on ANI a while ago.) Bishonen &#124; talk 12:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC).
 * P.S. Hey, don't edit war! You'll be in trouble, especially now that I've reported Zaalbar to WP:AN3. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Roger, wilco! Thanks for the tip. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 17:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey
Hey Bishy, did you get my e-mail about Rschen?--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


 * ? No. I've got an e-mail from you fairly recently, but nothing like that. Don't quite see why you'd e-mail me about that editor, either... (and I'm not especially interested in discussing him/her, on or off wiki). Did you mean to put some other name above? I've e-mailed you, anyway. Check your mail. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 00:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Sorry it was about Dengero. I replied to you a few days ago about some IRC evidence I uncovered. I'm not sure if you received it....--YOLO Swag (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

My Talk

 * I know the way of spelling of defense to defence, although, the we usually use the word defense mostly, but thanks for bringing it up!-- GoShow  (............................)  

Safely past the danger timeline
... and you squeak by once again. You realize, of course, that I'll eventually win one way or another and that your hat will end up in that ring? :-) &mdash; Coren (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Bish for arbcom! Bish for WMF chair! Bish for President! Bish for Archbishop of Canterbury! (Ok, maybe that last one is a bit much).--Scott Mac 20:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

May as well get started early
Please consider announcing your candidacy for the 2013 elections. The earlier the better, so I have time to set up and raise money for a SuperPAC. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The Archbish of Canterbury
Darwinbish takes all the compliments to herself, since she at least did offer to stand for arbcom, in tandem with her twin. She graciously offers her ring to be kissed, and is inspired to create a sock of her own,User:Archbish, to run in the 2013 election and evade Bishonen's schoolmarmish ban of the twins from wikipedia space.
 * I have been commanded by Her ladyship to point out that while Lady Catherine admires your fortitude and energy, Her ladyship is concerned that you may be taking too much upon yourself and it may be detrimental to your health. Remember, Wikipedia already has a first lady and it would be such a pity if you were to unwittingly tread on toes and in so doing find yourself in hospital – again! Her ladyship implores you to remember your poor, frail state and leave these weightier matters to her younger and wiser head. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, she had a head transplant? Bishonen &#124; talk 21:09, 22 November 2012 (UTC).
 * I'd also have my doubts as to whether the esteemed lady in question (whom I assume adheres to the Church of England), would approve of one of her own delicate gender being installed on the throne of St Augustine. Of course, were her gracious majesty to enthrone a dinosaur as Primate of All England, this may prove somewhat less of an innovation.--Scott Mac 22:37, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Lady Catherine does adhere to rights and beliefs of the Church of England; however, Her Ladyship does feel  that the church has somewhat lost its way. This is not so much because Her Ladyship disapproves of female bishops merely some of those aspiring to such high office. Most of whom Her Ladyship feels would benefit from a trip to the hairdresser and a little advice from a make-up artist and stylist.  It is inconceivable to Her ladyship that those wishing to appearing the wedding photographs of others should not be an ornament to the occasion. Regarding the Archbishopric of Canterbury, as personal chaplain, confessor and spiritual adviser to Her Ladyship, I do feel I have the experience to take on the role and most humbly submit my name; that I would have to escape forego Her Ladyships gracious employment, over-patronage  and proximity to Miss Corpus  would be a heavy cross to bear, but one  I would gladly suffer for the nation. In fact, I have already already selected our first lady bishops – such a dear, happy and joyous little band whom Lady Catherine has agreed to groom and polish to perfection. Rev Dr Augustus Deepthought (talk) 11:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Excuse I for butting in on this lovely little conversation but the Reverend needs to improve Weavers' windows as fast as a wombat drinks at a coolabah, or emus will kick his dunny door down, and Potoroos and Pademelons will take over his top paddock.--Shirt58 (talk) 14:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Where have you been?
Hey Bishy, I have been waiting for your input on the IRC evidence I uncovered before dropping the potential bombshell. Please take a look if you have time. Thanks!--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Boney. I could have sworn I mentioned IRC in my message of November 18, but I misremembered. :-( I've got to go, I'll write to you tomorrow. Short answer, though: no. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:47, 25 November 2012 (UTC).

ANI
Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. --213.168.72.45 (talk) 18:58, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * KillerChihuahua ?!? 21:37, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * [Bishzilla smiles reassuringly at the yappy little killerdog and approaches for a gentle hug. Is surprised and sad when little dog disappears over the hills with one terrified yelp.] Puppy not want take cosy nap in snug pocket? :-(    bishzilla     ROA R R! !    23:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Nice Wolfie will accept cuddle in little killerdog's stead; offers share of yummy mammoth bone (acquired at recent Mammoth Sale). <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 12:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Puppy chews up "wolfie"s mammoth bone and spits it out, then jumps in well-earned pocket and curls up with the pocket fluff, various members of ArbCom, and random treats. KillerChihuahua ?!? 15:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

[''Bishzilla is rather intimidated by any appurtenance of Lady Catherine's, especially her ferocious pets. Retreats cautiously.]   bishzilla     ROA R R! !   '' 16:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Wolfie grins in delight, having already saved the lion's share for 'zilla. The lion was not impressed by this, but having caught sight of wolfie's teeth and IQ, decided that discretion was the better part of valour, and agreed that 'zilla could have his share. Wolfie subsequently invites Crippen round for breakfast ... it's so  nice to have a friend for breakfast [Wolfie licks lips, eyes gleaming]  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 11:11, 29 November 2012 (UTC)  Wolfie adds, whilst pinning Crippen under humungous Wolfie-paw and administering forcible shlurpy faced-wash, that people (human, canine or otherwise) will neiver [shclupp] fwetten nor fwiten Wolfie's 'zilla, else dire and dretful fings might happen, such as bath, or seeing vet.  And vet [Wolfie grins, schlurpy schlurpy face-wash] might choose to administer correction normally reserved for admins, i.e. having "bits" removed. ;P Wolfie hopes all is now clear, Wolfie being 'zilla's self-appointed bodyguard.  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 11:38, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Information
I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility. An effort is underway that would likely benifit if your views were included. I hope you will append regards at: Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/Questionnaire Thank you for considering this request. My 76 Strat  (talk) 08:37, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of having ever commented in an arbcom discussion regarding civility, MyStrat, in fact you're embarrassing me in front of my friends by saying that. I've been uncivil, yes, if that was what you meant (even though Darwinbish nowadays takes care of most of my requirements in that way). Diffs on request. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC).
 * I am no beacon of civility, and I've made far too many mistakes. However, asking you to add your voice to the questionnaire is not a mistake. It would be a shame if a policy formed without the weight of your input. Though I understand how naive it is to place confidence in positive change around here. But I am still a bit naive, and often overly optimistic, as you are likely aware. With esteem, My 76  Strat  (talk) 13:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * You need a new userbox, Bish. "This user has been accused of participating in a discussion about civility, but vehemently denies it". --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:55, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And here I was hoping somebody would request the diffs..! (Being too modest to offer them unasked.) Bishonen &#124; talk 14:00, 29 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Hey, I was busy on Skype! I can't do everything all at once! But now that I'm free, diffs, please! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I recently referred to a poetic effusion in a voter guide as miserable doggerel. And this personal attack was taken to ANI here. (Hardly fair, per other things exist. Who's up for hauling Darwinbish before ANI for her latest template User:Darwinbish/anonymouscoward?) Bishonen &#124; talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).


 * I had no need to ask; my favorite diff is handily located right in your block log. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:43, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? I can't think what that would be. If you mean the massive penis thing, that was just a warning — not a block. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).


 * I think My76Strat was referring to the recent ArbCom motion regarding Elen of the Roads. Kurtis (talk) 19:53, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * (Hi there, Kurtis, I like your voter guide.) Well, maybe he was, but surely that motion is one of the rare recent things which has nothing at all to do with civility. Pretty much unique in that way, really. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Thank you so much! =)
 * Actually, I think it does sort of pertain to civility, as it stemmed from the whole kerfuffle with Jclemens and Malleus. The former is actively campaigning against those who did not support banning the latter, and he's taking a pretty aggressive tone in doing so. But then again, it's only tangentially related and has more to do with respect for privacy than anything. Kurtis (talk) 20:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, everything pertains to it in that sense. You could say civility is the Kevin Bacon of Wikipedia. Nowadays few of our threads have more than one or two degrees of separation from it. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Indeed, I've noticed. =\ Kurtis (talk) 03:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't realize that you were serious about wondering why I said "I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility." It seemed like in jest humor to me and I just moved on as if everything was in order. You certainly have a right to ask me what list I used in deciding to message you, and I certainly do not have any right to disregard you, leaving you and others to speculate. Disregard like that is out of my character, so if it ever seems like I am, it's almost certainly that I misunderstood something. Anyway, here is the exact list I used, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement and your username is located at  number 1.42 . I apologize for the delay. My 76  Strat  (talk) 06:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, right. Indeed. An extremely dubious RFAR, preceded by no dispute resolution (as I pointed out in my comment) and brought by User:Alexandria, who has a, hmm, what's that euphemism… a controversial record for… again, words fail me… for contentious admin actions and other… factious calls. I was surprised the committee accepted such a poorly formed and prepared request. I'd forgotten about my comment there; or rather, I thought you were talking about recent civility discussions, MyStrat. That was a year ago. But of course I don't really object to being pinged in the matter. You're quite right to cast your net widely. Bishonen &#124; talk 08:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC).
 * Why do we have policies at all if they're not going to be enforced?MONGO 20:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh come on, Bigfoot. We can't enforce them if they have no precision and if everybody understands the concepts in them differently, per cultural differences, personal opinions, etc etc. I suppose we have to have a civility policy, something to gesture at and tell newbies about... but I seriously don't think a policy on that subject is capable of precision, or, thus, of a whole lot of enforcement. And if we try to straightjacket the policy into more precision and concreteness, we will only provide a bigger and better field for all sorts of wikilawyering. So, enforce? How? And doesn't it worry you that WP:CIV and WP:NPA are some of the best-loved policies of all trolls, socks, and aggressive newbies? (To cite, I mean, and post warnings about, and take people to ANI over. Not so much to apply to themselves.) Second only to their all-time favourite WP:AGF. For the finer distinctions, compare User:Heimstern/Ignoring incivility. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC).
 * So you recommend zero enforcement? Just ignore it? That works well for some, but not for every editor. Is there a cut off...I mean, if we're not going to enforce civility, then why should we take a death threat seriously? I find death threats are less incivil and pretty ridiculous since there is no chance the offender is going to reach through the internet to yank out my still beating heart. I think this "cultural differences" excuse for some of the vitriol I see on the website is ridiculous. I've discussed this matter with plenty of folks from the east side of the Atlantic and elsewhere that don't buy it either. It seems rather preposterous that too many arbs and admins defend their buddies when they should be helping their buddies by reigning them back in from the precipice. I can't see how we do the website or our pals here favors when we just let them tear the place to pieces.MONGO 21:55, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Come on, threats of harm, hate speech, these are easy to distinguish. But in some parts of the world I would be being extremely incivil just for speaking to you, me being a woman and all. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:15, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Incivility is not as hard to spot as many portent! We certainly don't have any problem spotting it when added to a BLP. It only seems to become difficult when directed against a living Wikipedia editor. I find that a bit disingenuous. My 76  Strat  (talk) 22:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * For example, using the term "disingenuous" to imply that someone is intentionally deceitful? Not that I think anything should be Done About It(TM), I just find it interesting that you've managed to shoot your message in the foot so cleanly. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:51, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The nuance betwixt saying "I find that ..." and "That is ..." has long-been a factor of the bright-line. Consider this 1622 quote from Justice Barkley: Cheers, My 76  Strat  (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, good! I didn't know that civility enforcers thought the solution was just rewording things like that. I find your posts about civility unbearably smarmy and pretentious. And disingenuous. But on the plus side, I do find that you share many traits with trolling wikilawyers. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the line is not as bright as I once held. More importantly, I am sorry to see you find me to be of such character; which is not the height of my aspirations. On another note, could you recommend a good surgeon so I can have this bullet removed from my foot? It's affecting my mobility. Cheers My 76  Strat  (talk) 23:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Grasshopper, it is invariably hazy. You have made the first of many steps toward enlightenment today. I shall provide a few more words of wisdom, and then retire to my chambers. Much like hole digging, there is a Rule #1 associated with foot shooting.  When you find your foot has been shot, the first step is to stop shooting. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No Padawan. When shot foot found, no first step possible. --Famously Sharp (talk) 18:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Not entirely arbitrary break
@Elen...of course this is just using this as a baseline, so that we can agree of course that threats of harm should result in some kind of penalty. So where do we go from there? Is there a standard for which we tolerate incivility. Can we word it in a way on the policy page where we might get a general agreement as to what constitutes a blockable offense...is it the word itself, how many times it is stated, what the frequency is, how much vitriol is in it, or is all of this simply too subjective? Since the community is having increasing difficulty knowing what the boundaries are regardng incivility are we to lower the bar or raise it?--MONGO 01:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody should be blocked for breaching somebody else's standard of civility. Blocks in these sort of circumstances are 99% punitive, and we all know that punishment alone is the least effective form of behaviour modification. Let's turn our efforts to working out why some people appear uncivil and to figuring out how to reduce the incidence (hint: blocking has the opposite effect). --RexxS (talk) 18:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, it has little to do with words and more to do with the way those words are delivered, with the level of animosity etc. Sometimes, I see some back and forth on Wikipedia and think that if an outsider read the exchanges, they'd assume the two (or more) people genuinely hate each other. Even being on "the inside" such as I am, the exchanges seem that way to me as well.--MONGO 19:13, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with your observation. The problem is that it's perfectly possible to use absolutely 'civil' language to administer the most cutting remarks, and it's very hard to legislate for how one person feels towards another. Pesky suggests that we should all be kind to one another, but does that impose too much on people - and would it work anyway? Perhaps the answer is to work down from the threats and the hate speech to define an upper bound of unacceptably inflammatory language, rather than thinking of it as working up from a world where everyone is 'nice' to each other. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:43, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you pretending to be a woman, but really a man? I ask because your last comment is packed with insight; a well known discriminating factor. calm down everyone, it's a bad joke, meant as a bad joke, bordering terrible, but I do like the comment by Elen of the Roads My 76  Strat  (talk) 21:12, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll tell you something amusing. I am a bona fide woman (have three girls to prove it) but when I was a student myself and a (straight) male friend volunteered with the Psychology department for the students to experiment on. We were given a whole raft of tests, some of which were supposed to show the difference between male and female brains. The students couldn't tell us apart. This isn't as spooky as it sounds - we figured that the 'intuition' tests were just based on good powers of observation, and as my dad was a practical guy who had no son, I'd been engaged from a young age helping him do DIY etc, so I had good spatial awareness, handled tools etc. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:38, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The "intuition" wossname is a lousy indicator! The left-brain vs. right-brain thinking is slightly better, but that falls down often, too. F'rinstance, autie females have male-type brain stuff going on much of the time, and in terms of that are often indistinguishable from non-autie males.  I've had people having real trouble believing I'm a granny when they've "met" me in IRC; apparently I come across like a 20-something male in that environment!  Elen, you remind me of me in that history - not that I had no brother, but that my father had me helping him out on all sorts of DIY and so on from a young age. (And eeewwww, how I hated girly stuff like dolls! [shudder])  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 04:59, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I read somewhere that one of the most reliable questions to discriminate male-female is "Have you ever touched a 9-volt battery to your tongue?" Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah now, I had dollies, Sindys and dress up clothes, a meccano set, an excellent vocabulary, decent spatial awareness, could use a hammer and cold chisel, and have licked 9v batteries to test for charge. I'm just your average Renaissance woman :) Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I can honestly say I've gotten way more mileage out of my misplaced humor than I ever imagined. I honestly did expect someone would probably chastise me harshly. And by the way, I,ve tested the 9v battery so many times in my prepubescent years that I came to like the taste. Heck, after I save this, I think I'll have a look around the house to see if I can find one to test; for old-times sake. Cheers, My 76  Strat  (talk) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * @Elen...Pesky...I'm supportive of that and glad many ladies here speak their minds, are candid and willing to stand their ground and might test a 9V battery in a way I wouldn't! I have wondered, as an offshoot of the relatively recent discussions that Wikipedia is losing/not attracting female participants, how much incivility may or may not play a part in that issue. I'm not seeing any female editors make more of a fuss over it than the men do, in fact it seems men are more concerned, or at least more aggressive in discussing the matter. I am concerned that the "cultural differences" argument is invalid (ever heard of the New Jersey Hello...its just a middle finger) as I know first hand that Americans are just as prone to use nasty language as any other culture. I do not condone my oubursts nor those of others and think it is important that unless we are faced with an extreme situation, we should all refrain from being nasty. It would be hard to believe that the numerous complaints about me and others regarding incivility are all without merit, or should be ignored. I'm going to do whatever I can to be as civil as possible, since I know that, less so currently than in the past, I have a history of repeated infractions. I consider myself fortunate that at one time I had allies that defended me, even at times I probably didn't deserve any defense...it would be a discredit to them now not earn their approval. Best wishes.--MONGO 18:56, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I really appreciate the insight you are sharing that user:MONGO has seen. A lot of people would rather discard your admissions than presume they are sincere. But I strongly feel that you are being sincere, and I think it's a very good thing seeing your comments. I suspect you won't be passing any RfA's anytime soon, and neither will I, but I don't see where I'd have any problem collaborating with you, because there is wisdom in your prose, and I enjoy hanging around wisdom every chance I get. My 76  Strat  (talk) 19:17, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, I'm male and have never tested a 9 volt battery with my tongue. (Although my M.A. is in electronic engineering, so I've always had a voltmeter to hand.) I do need to point out to Elen, though, that all real Renaissance women and men can be identified by their habit of keeping dinosaurs for pets. --T-RexxS ( rawr ) 21:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

9v batteries are for sissies! Coming from a farmy, horsey background, the real test is to check your 2mm steel-cable, mains-adaptor-powered electric fence for shorts at a distance from the farmhouse by grabbing hold of it with a rain-soaked hand ... @RexxS - I don't have a dinosaur, but I do have a nearly-nine-foot boa constrictor! Her pet-name is "Cuddles" ;P <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 11:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

"fishy"
Replied on my page. Diff works for me - use 'find' for "fishy". Or do same on Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard.

As I said when I posted the diff on the page: I said "fishy" aurora because I couldn't remember the exact quote which was "fishy odor". So when I posted the diff, I quoted "fisher odor". Please read my post on that page where I gave the diff for your.

Hope this helps you out. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 14:49, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

p.s. It is a diff in the "usual sense" but to a permalinked page. A permalink is just a diff to specific version of the page, in case that version gets archived or deleted or something. Best, MathewTownsend (talk) 14:55, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not what "diff" means. See Help:Diff. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * well, whatever the right terminology this **** (which is called a diff on the page: (diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)) goes to the page. If you use 'find' for "fishy", the referenced comment  using "fishy odor" can be found. So I used this to give a citation for the  tag.  MathewTownsend (talk) 21:08, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * p.s. the complete sentence is "No doubt the fishy odor would remain throughout Elen's next term, should she win another, providing a useful reminder to her that bright lines are bright lines even when they're painted in stupid places." MathewTownsend (talk) 21:26, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

On anchors and other non-nautical stuff
Having placed an anchor in a page using the anchor template, you can create a link to it from within the same page like this - you can of course pipe the text like this as usual.

You can also link to it from another page as you would do normally for a section, just substituting the name you gave to the anchor instead of the section name. You can write User talk:Bishonen on any page and it will link to the place on this page where you placed the  template. Piping works as normal. You might want to pass this on to the young fish as I'm sure he'll find it useful. --RexxS (talk) 22:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ... You both know how to make a guy paranoid. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 22:09, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Re your e-mail
Thanks - that should do it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

SchuminWeb RFCU
"Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page" -I've asked Centpacrr to move their additional paragraph to the talk page? Once they do so, would you please transfer your second comment that applies to it? Regards, GiantSnowman 19:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, it looks like Centpacrr has tried to fix the issue on the main page instead, so I'll wait a bit. I see the present situation on his talkpage, and I agree with you that it would be simplest to move his second thoughts, and mine, to the RFC talk. As you say, it could be the start of a useful thread about lack of response from SchW. Plus also, it's not easy at present for people who may want to endorse Centpacrr's view to know where or how to post! That needs to be simplified. But I certainly don't have any strong feeling about where, or if, my own demurral appears, I'll leave it to you and Centpacrr to figure out. Do feel free to move (or delete, if it comes to that) my comment to wherever it fits best. (You too, Centpacrr, if you see this.) Or if you have a scruple about that, I'll move it myself, once the talkpage has been created.


 * Incidentally, one reason that I demurred about making a big deal about SchW not responding was that in one of the several RfC's I've been the subject of (compare my userpage here), I chose not to respond at all: this one. It was admittedly a very different situation. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC).


 * (Compare also my post here.) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:26, 8 December 2012 (UTC).

Userpage proposal
User_talk:YOLO_Swag/Userpage_proposal I deleted some of the stuff people had issues with. Let me know what you think :)--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm going out on a limb for you here, Boney. Click on my links, I think you'll like them, but kindly don't use them as ammo, not against anybody. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:07, 9 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Thank you Bishy! I'm surprised a lot of these folks are really keeping close tabs on me. I didn't expect such hostility at all. I actually deleted some of the materials people took issues with including the "new message" bar and offending "China=shame" among others. Just FYI, I am giving you special permission to edit/improve my subpage you see fit but I really don't care about anyone else's hate.--YOLO Swag (talk) 01:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, that went well. I'll let the three other editors he's insulted report him at ANI. I'm off for the night. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Sigh. Have you ever considered preserving a dignified silence in places like MfD, Boney? There's no point in you saying "Keep", because it's already obvious that you will want it kept, it's your bloody page. And the other things you say there are a bit worse than pointless. I hereby topic ban you from ever again mentioning Sven Manguard. I'll revise your page when I get a chance, but unfortunately I'm really busy today. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC).


 * @Elen. Don't get me wrong, I was quite happy to support your Arb election, but I think you really need to dial it down a notch.  You know better. Please consider stepping back a bit and looking at the big picture.  I honestly do understand that emotions are running high at the moment, but allowing yourself to be drawn in to petty squabbles isn't going to help your peace of mind.  Have a hug and a smile, and stick to the big picture. :) — Ched :  ?  15:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What's the big picture here? Other parties can deal with the allegations about Wikipedia editors - he's already been warned for it. Here's my problem


 * Dr. Dre is of course a real person, and this isn't him.
 * Andre Wallace sr is a real person [] (scroll down to the bottom). If the editor isn't LL Cool Dre, I would consider this one a real problem.

I can't personally see the slightest merit in this, although I am waiting for Bishonen to come up with how it can be rewritten. If he really wants to promote the cause of Taiwan, I can think of a lot better ways of doing it than in a fake bio that just discredits the subject. And if he's using the fake bio to discredit people like Lin Yi-hsiung, then that's pretty low. Whatever, it's up there as an MfD, the community gets to decide. Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Lindsey Strutt is a real person, and the reference clearly is to that Lindsey Strutt.
 * I doubt this editor beat Easy-E in a rapping contest.
 * John Bunting (American football) is a real person.
 * Leighton Meester is a real person and Ludacris is a real person. Are they really related to this editor?
 * Jay-Z is a real person, and I doubt he is this editor's homie
 * Makayla Wallace is a real person (several real people)
 * Donovan Jackson is a lot of real people


 * If he uses names that are "a lot of real people", I wouldn't consider that a problem, as long as none of those real people are actual household words. Of course Dr Dre and similar versions are just that, and I've removed those. I'm in the process of removing other clearly inappropriate real people, thanks for the useful list! And of course the politics can expect to get slashed. (It may all take a while, though. I've got some people coming to dinner.) What's up with your link 8? I can't find any Andre Wallace Sr there. Do I have to be logged in or something? Bishonen &#124; talk 15:54, 9 December 2012 (UTC).
 * If you can get rid of them all, it would certainly be less of a problem. Re link 8, scroll right down to the bottom. Just above the Latest Blog entries heading, it says the following

Heroes

master seargant Andre Wallace sr. a good soldier a better father august 4 1968- november 12 2008 Thank you for President Obama.Thankyou for allowing him to do what I thought I'd never see or do.

The blog owner called himself LL Cool Dre. His name is Andre Wallace, his dad was called Andre Wallace. I don't believe it's this editor. That's a problem, even if it is a lot of coincidences. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Ha, no, that can't be him. See the mention of Obama? That's never Boney. ;-) Bishonen &#124; talk 16:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC).
 * That's what I thought. It's an odd coincidence, but it runs just a bit too close for me. Can you change the name in some way. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Bishonen/Sicilian Christmas
Maybe you forgotten about this page? But user pages do get indexed, and someone just reported at OTRS that the page has been hacked... ;-)  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:02, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Can I be the first to die laughing. Pretty please. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:26, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't believe you left out the story of the December 1967 invasion of Sicily by Cuban mercenaries bent on removing St. Giacomo and replacing him with an effigy of the recently martyred Che Guevara, singing John Lennon's "Imagine" (notable for not having been written yet) and encouraging everyone to skip Christmas and instead wait until August to celebrate the birth of Fidel Castro. Bravely repelled by valiant US Marines with a low 50% collateral casualty rate, the now ship-less mercenaries left Sicily and drifted in the Atlantic for months on empty cigar boxes, past the Azores and Easter Island, before washing up on the shores of near Cornwall.  They went on to open the successful Rincon Cubano (a redlink?! I smell a DYK opportunity) restaurant chain throughout the UK. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:11, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * @Ron: well, it is a year or two or three since I looked at the page, yes. I've now restored a valuable location specification which had mysteriously been lost. Perhaps the page was hacked! Anyway, Floquenbeam has now added a noindex tag, which people are most welcome to do any time they come across something disreputable in my userspace. (As with several of the pages lurking there, the most beautiful content was actually added by User:Giano.) Fortuitous, isn't it, that this was brought to my attention on 13 December, Sankta Lucia, prominently mentioned in the lede?


 * @Floquenbeam: sofixit, then. Shouldn't there be a link to Friendly fire somewhere in there? Bishonen &#124; talk 00:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC).
 * How silly of me to forget the tradition of the Friendly Fire, so useless for burning saints, but just the thing to roast the St. Lucia Day goat. Many, many years ago, I lived in Norway, but had forgotten about St. Lucia Day until today. Kind of a Nordic Posadas. The Norwegian elementary school would invite the American kids over to their school for a party. God Luciadagen, Bish. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I had forgotten about that page - what a great services we have provided to the world. I thought there a more detailed description of the goat blessing ceremony somewhere; I shall have to write it up. Sadly, these cultural, religious customs are now dying out, than goodness for the brave marchese and his offspring. Giano (talk) 09:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I hate to admit this, sweetheart, but I believe the marchese may have hung out for a while in the official Christmas article, elaborately blessing both the goat and some Sicilian miniature sleigh-pulling reindeer. Speaking of vandalism, the Gävle goat, believed to be the world's largest and ugliest Yule goat, has just been torched again! No idea why we didn't include that ancient cultural religious custom in the Sicilian Christmas article . Another oversight. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC).
 * That's very sad. There's always some idiot wanting to spoil other peoples enjoyment of life. Personally, I am getting quite into the Christmas spirit; I quite like London at this time of year - I even posted my two Christmas cards yesterday; my beautiful children make them with glue and things found while walking the dog in the park. I saw there was a carol singing choir (of sorts) at Embankment tube station yesterday, but they seemed to be singing in some strange Eastern European dialect - probably collecting for the Keep Jimbo in London Fund. So Buon Natale as we don't say in London. Giano (talk) 16:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No, no, not sad. It's the torching that's the ancient cultural religious custom, see Gävle goat. :-) All according to whassname… mm… not Bakunin… no, Bakthin! Compare Carnivalesque. Or, well, why not indeed Bakunin for that matter — I'm sure he torched a yule goat or two in his day. Stockholm is overwhelmed by snow, and more is expected. Inconvenient and beautiful, madly exciting for the little children who overrun the parks and any convenient incline with their sleds, happy shouts mingling with the ambulance sirens (coming to pick up all the little old ladies who've come to grief, no doubt my turn any moment now). Nostalgic! Bishonen &#124; talk 16:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Thank you for liberating through humor and chaos ;) don't come to grief, please, torch, - remembering torch --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there, Gerda. I see Darwinbish (who moves around the site effortlessly in the snow and ice, her claws functioning as crampons) has posted on PumpkinSky's page. Just mentioning it because, for such a kind and gentle user, you seem surprisingly partial to the ankle biter. :-) Is it possible that she symbolises for you a repressed, never seen, Gerda? Fell free to liberate that Gerda by posting any of Darwinbish's evil templates on any user talkpage that strikes you as in need of it, HINT HINT. You'll find them on db's userpage. (Remember to subst, and they'll automagically say your name in place of "a friend". Fine feature added by a br'er of yours.) Bishonen &#124; talk 00:02, 15 December 2012 (UTC).
 * ... like many fine features. - I like the effortless biter, thank you, team! I like team spirit and just said so ;) (hint hint: I would like to see the face of the one I have in mind now when I present the biter) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * too early to be archived, continued, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:58, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention famous Sicilian Christmas toilet paper holders... decorated with caganers and ranging in style from "Manger" to "Japanese". Lucia 4ever, – SJ + 03:51, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * [Bishzilla crowds in ahead of Bishonen, delighted to see this rare visitor.] Hello there little Sj! Long long time!   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    12:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC).
 * [Repressively.] Yes, Bishzilla. [Reading the Caganer article. Can't believe her eyes.] Gosh, a nihilartikel in mainspace! Why don't we have this hilarious great stuff in the learned European toilet paper holder article? The information in Caganer proves, surely, that the Holy Grail really was a tph, and thereby a symbol of the fertility of the (enriched) land, as per Celtic vegetation cults. Well, I thought so. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Use for this shit, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Ombudsman commission
Hi, I contact you as you took part in the discussion on Penyulap's talk page concerning the Ombudsman committee matter. I've started some proposals and discussion on meta about how best to reform the OC to fix the issues it currently has and I would be very grateful if you could drop by and voice your opinion at Ombudsman commission/reform proposals.  Snowolf How can I help? 12:19, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Humore. ;)
AAAAHAHAH! :) Thank you for injecting a bit of humor. I killed that before the thought police could verbally shoot you. :) User talk:Unfriend12 17:03, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Haha. I ain't scared of the Civility Patrol. But some people may be, so it wouldn't hurt if you got yourself a fucken wiki e-mail account. (Under "User profile" in Preferences.) Bishonen &#124; talk 17:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC).


 * If I could have an actual Wikipedia email (perhaps as Facebook does it), I would. But as I would have to tie the address to an email account I actually check, at this time I think I will not set it up.  Though it is a good suggestion and I appreciate it.User talk:Unfriend12 17:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No one can see your email address unless you actually reply, so you could use your current account for receiving; but you can easily use an email you can reply with and can set up so you will see the incoming emails from Wikipedia without checking multiple accounts. Get a Gmail account or another free email account; then set it up to forward to your regular account, as explained here for gmail. Then just make sure you log into your Google account when you want to reply to a Wikipedia email you've received. Taa-daa! You only check one email account, and you see all incoming Wikipedia emails, and you can reply without losing your privacy. Killer Chihuahua 13:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "But as I would have to tie the address to an email account I actually check, at this time I think I will not set it up." - I have too many email addresses, won't attach one of the 5 to Wikipedia, and I am not checking any more. Good points you make, but no, thank you.User talk:Unfriend12 13:39, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

language ques
Is there a gender neutral equivalent of grow a pair? Thought I'd ask in advance after the lashing I got for rope ;) NE Ent 21:17, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * All depends on context, y'know. It wasn't some shortfall of politically correct language I was complaining about when you used the ugly "rope" trope for a dehumanising comment on an already sufficiently piled-on user. Anyway... as the proud one-time nominee for Wikipedia Review's "Balls of Steel" award, I don't think I'm the right person to take such puling backhanded inquiries to. But I'll see if I can come up with something. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:49, 18 December 2012 (UTC).
 * I've actually forgotten the exact context -- partially selective memory being most useful for wiki-happiness -- my take-away was actually (simply) don't use wp:rope ever again. NE Ent 22:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "Grow some teeth"!  darwin bish  BITE 21:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Hopefully, input from my grumpy self will not be too unwelcome. I have used "Use a bit more backbone.", "toughen up", and "grow a spine" similarly to "grow a pair", when being informal and perhaps a bit too harsh for politeness, but attempting to avoid the abuse that might follow something even less delicate.  An old Brit used to raise one eyebrow and say something like "Stiff upper lip!" but that is a bit different.User talk:Unfriend12 22:04, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Mmmm. All good but none really quite capture the exact connotation .... I'm thinking now perhaps maybe I just have a longer entmoot when I'm filling the temptation to throw down such a challenge to an editor. NE Ent 22:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Friend Unfriend, you're welcome here. I don't know if it was obvious from the above that I'm female. (Though I doubt the Ent would have bothered to ask that question if I wasn't.) Ent, you could have taken away worse, I suppose. "Don't use WP:ROPE" and "don't use WP:STICK" should keep you out of trouble until [with deceptive mildness], I can take care of the rest of your issues tomorrow. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:32, 19 December 2012 (UTC).
 * With all due respect, you forgot something ... drawing a blank, I'm sure it will come to me. NE Ent 02:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't use "with all due respect"? Bishonen &#124; talk 10:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC).
 * [Alarmed.] Hide, Ent! darwin fish 01:51, 19 December 2012 (UTC).


 * OH MY .. yes - don't ever use WP:WADR when speaking on wiki ... — Ched : ?  21:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

your comment/statement ...

 * Hehe. Merry Christmas, Ched and Chedzilla! Bishzilla (powerful dino contralto), Pod (shrill treble) and the twins (blowing bubbles) will come round to sing Christmas carols and deliver Christmas cookies to y'all when you least expect it! Better warn the neighbours! Bishonen &#124; talk 00:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC).
 * I've said similar things in the past, to little effect. Good luck.  MBisanz  talk 23:48, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Block the buggers, yeah, you're quite right, Matt! And admins who file frivolously should be taken to task more, not less, strictly than regular users. In my opinion. But I'm quite resigned to nobody asking me for my October example. Sigh... but then I expect all the people who might be interested already know the answer. Apropos of the Malleus case, I've been thinking of trouting, or rather stockfishing, the provocateur whose post in that thread lead with the fatality of classical tragedy to all the rest. If you read the thread, I'm sure you'll see who I mean. Somebody who nobody has mentioned in the context, a very good guy too, but in this instance... oh, well. So many plans, so much need to go to bed instead. You do it! Have a cookie, help yourself! Bishonen &#124; talk 00:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC).
 * What's your October example? NE Ent 01:07, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, Ent. You know that I know that you know that I know that you know it. But I appreciate the gesture. Here. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:53, 20 December 2012 (UTC).
 * I can has cookie too, please? Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:11, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You can, little Heim, tuck in. The conglomerate never forgets a useful question at a helpful moment! Bishonen &#124; talk 08:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC).


 * And lo, the 'Shonen family shall move in mysterious ways. received in my inbox today.  Bless you Ms. Bish - may you and all your visitors have a wonderful and joyous season. :) — Ched :  ?  00:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Haha. That keeps happening, every time Bishzilla tries to leave for the North from Stockholm Central Station, with all her little socks in her pocket and discreetly disguised for privacy, per portrait shown right! Somebody spots her and everybody bursts into "An die Freude", just like that! Bishonen &#124; talk 21:36, 21 December 2012 (UTC).

From the puppy
(This is to everyone on this page, I'm trying not to spam as I know people have differing feelings about this sort of post. So if you want, please put on your talk page, with my kindest regards! Apologies if you would have preferred I place it there myself, but I prefer to err on the side of not annoying anyone if I can! Thanks! Killer Chihuahua  01:53, 24 December 2012 (UTC))

Lazy Floq
OK, if KC can get away with that, then maybe I can get away with suggesting you create a nice, tasteful Christmas template, then award it to yourself from me? Maybe with some clever moving gifs of some kind? Whether you decide to do this or not, Merry Christmas, Bish (you too puppy). --Floquenbeam (talk) 04:05, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, Floq, after the dead birds and hopping zombie chickens I think Bish isn't too worried about getting this from me. Killer Chihuahua 04:09, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you both so much for spreading such a lovely Christmas ambience all over my humble little page. I'll send Darwinbish to reciprocate; I know she's keen to display her fine santa hat with morning star. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:31, 24 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Merry Christmas, Bish. I don't leave KringleSpam.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I do! Personal whacking Kringlespam!  darwin bish  BITE 21:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC).

Policy
I feel like I'm doing good work, like making templates, helping with Media copyright questions#Licensing_of_photos_of_gifts_to U.S. Presidents, and lots of content editing all over, but I'm at loggerheads with multiple users in policy disputes. I feel like I'm doing everything right; either I've run into a particularly high concentration of bad users or my judgement is off. I feel like I must have stepped into the Twilight Zone when have multiple experiences like this. I need a break. Can you block me for 3 weeks from en and commons (or all sites)?--Elvey (talk) 11:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, Elvey. I can only block you from en; I'm not an admin anywhere else. I would consider doing that, if you're sure. But would it be a good idea on its own? Image copyright seems to be your field of interest, and if you remain active on Commons, well... it seems to me that being silenced on en would just be frustrating, without really helping you to disengage.


 * Image copyright is notoriously a field where emotions run high. I can see how it's disheartening stuff to deal with, especially if you feel people aren't listening. That said, however justifiably annoyed you get, you have to remember Wikipedians are very sensitive — or, you might say, overly touchy to straight talk — especially if they're wrong! — and it's important to talk sweet, which you don't always do in the diffs you gave me. But then, perhaps one reason you want to take a break is you want to recover your sweet temper?


 * If you're sure about wanting an enforced break, and if you've read my conditions for self-requested blocks, I suggest you try to find a Commons admin who's willing to block you there first (because I have a notion that may be harder), and then get back to me, and I'll give you some time off. Regards, Bishonen &#124; talk 12:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC).


 * Good analysis. Maybe some Insulin could help with my blood sugar levels? Correct on all counts. ("I can see how it's disheartening stuff to deal with, especially if you feel people aren't listening. That said, however justifiably annoyed you get, you have to remember Wikipedians are very sensitive — or, you might say, overly touchy to straight talk — especially if they're wrong! — and it's important to talk sweet, which you don't always do in the diffs you gave me. But then, perhaps one reason you want to take a break is you want to recover your sweet temper?")    Looks like I found one.  Thanks.--Elvey (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, insulin is for when you're too sweet. ;-) Are you saying you're blocked on Commons now, and would like me to go ahead from this end?? Bishonen &#124; talk 21:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Please go ahead. I pointed Beeblebrox here, and expect him to, but whether he has or will or not, go ahead here, please.  --Elvey (talk) 00:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You have been blocked for three weeks with talkpage access disabled, per my conditions. (I didn't formally disable e-mail for you, since you didn't have it enabled in the first place.) Enjoy your wikiholiday! Bishonen &#124; talk 01:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

New year fever?
What's wrong with everybody? I'd crack a smile over the AN/I shenanigans if I wasn't laughing. Rich Farmbrough, 20:13, 30 December 2012 (UTC).


 * (You mean the ones on AN?) Sigh. Isn't it the same all the fucking year round? I'm too pissed off to speak my mind here about shoot-from-the-hip admins, or their blocks, or the damage inflicted by their blocks. I just get more disillusioned the more I think about it. Anyway, I already shared a couple of my more moderate thoughts on AN, accomplishing zilch, who was I kidding. Not myself, that's for sure. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC).
 * I haven't commented on the AN/ANI threads because one or more of the issues may come before the ArbCom. (Silly me, I thought that in my new term I might be able to help resolve some new disputes we hadn't seen before!) But I think I won't endanger my impartiality by saying that I thought that your comments were well-done and, if people were paying attention, should have helped to tone down some aspects of the situations. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:41, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Brad. If you're very, very lucky in the new year, you may get somebody taking User:Darwinbish to RFAR for egregious personal attacks and Christmas threats, wouldn't that be a novelty? Bishonen &#124; talk 21:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC).
 * P. S. I believe you meant to say you're "notoriously the most namby-pamby arbitrator". Satirical name for the, mmm, feeble and maudlin 18th-century courtier and poet Ambrose Philips. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC).
 * Interesting; I've heard it spoken and used as "mamby-pamby" all my life, but you're clearly correct about the origin, and about "namby" being the more common form. Perhaps this is an ENGVAR situation of some sort? Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:16, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've always heard "namby", and I'm from the same country as you, albeit other coast. For whatever that matters! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes definitely namby! Rich Farmbrough, 04:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC).


 * It's all fairly harmless, since they end up looking silly and everyone ends up unblocked. But if they do that to each other, what do they do to the out-group? (And the answer is, sometimes, whatever they damn well please.) Rich Farmbrough, 04:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Happy Christmas and Merry New Year to the Bishpack! Tex (talk) 14:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

A message from the First Lady of Wikipedia
My dear, little Mrs Bishonen,

It is to your barely read page that I have descended to make my New Year’s message of glad tidings to the people of Wikipedia – wherever they may be.

As I sit here in the refined splendours of my gracious drawing room at Scrotum Towers, looking at the frost atwinkling over my parkland, I think most warmly of you all in your less splendid and altogether more humble  surroundings, scattered all over the Commonwealth – Mrs Bishonen in her igloo in Sweden, Mrs Risker is some sort of native construction in Canada, Mr Gerard camped under newspapers in Embankment Gardens, Tex and Rex roaming on their prairie (or whatever it is that they do in that distant part of the world), Mr Wales ensconced in the Ritz and poor Mr Fatuorum incarcerated in his cell and being  tortured until he becomes a prim and proper American lady. In so thinking, I am minded of that little known Bible saying “God gives only to the deserving.” And what could be better proof of this than our loving and united community at Wikipedia.

I now wish you all a very happy and thoughtful New Year. May 2013 see a new and improved Wikipedia and may we not forget its many victims of injustice, naivity, bigotry, ignorance and downright stupidity. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 20:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, Lady C, how wonderful to finally see you again in the flesh as it were in the quality of a primary source, rather than relayed by your increasingly odd and bitterly infighting underlings, who got more and more like a Chinese whispering game every day! I'm petrified with honour at your choice of my humble page for your first reappearance! Bishonen &#124; talk 21:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC).
 * My best wishes, Ma'am, to both your good self and His Excellency, your saintly nephew, for the coming year. May all your family, both animate and otherwise, as well as all of the Bishes, both large and small, enjoy good health and prosperity. From my little house on the prairie, --RexxS (talk) 00:25, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * [Bishonen in her role as home carer to Lady C:] Rex is British, dearie. Maybe you were meaning to mention frontiersman MONGO, strider of the wilderness, subduer of the grizzly? Bishonen &#124; talk 12:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC).


 * My dear Bishonen and the fine Lady Catherine...I assure you we are doing all we can to rid the frontier of my half-nephew, the vile and dreaded MONGO. He was last seen, having broke free of his steel leash, wandering aimlessly through the streets of metropolitan Pigs Knuckle, Montana. Several skunks reported to us that they could smell his stench from a distance in excess of 10 kilometres, so we shall likely have little difficulty locating it in its latest fecal lair. Its a disgusting beast, the dreaded MONGO, but once we have that hairy troll back in irons, we'll post our royal sentries to provide round the clock guard duty, case it slips its shackles yet again. Fear not, mightly Bishonen and my Lady, I'll make sure my disgusting half-nephew MONGO, whose father we can't speak about, never again tarnishes this realm. Your humble and dedicated 63rd-cousin, Baron von MONGO
 * Huh? [Mommy Bear is a little worried by nasty references to shackles and suchlike.] Where little MONGO, RAWWRRR? Mommy &#124; Bear 21:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Why do we have to wait until May 2013 for a new and improved Wikipedia? I'd prefer it got here in January. No matter, I suppose.  Happy New Year to those of you classy enough to have this talk page on your watchlist. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's the only page on my watchlist. Now that's class. --Famously Sharp (talk) 00:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Now how does 'zilla get in that tiny house? Rich Farmbrough, 05:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Aha! I feared some wikilawyer would ask that, yet the answer seemed a little complicated to unfold in the image caption, and I hoped the smarter of my readers would be able to figure it out. (Well, maybe they did.) Rich, dear, Zilla is on the outside, all around the house. What you see is a view from her pocket (not the regular pocket with the infrared heating, but the special one with the freezing plant), where she keeps Bishonen and the smaller socks in the winter, for cosiness. See the attractive way the pocket lining is landscaped around the igloo? Compare the way it's drizzling in Stockholm right now — typical enough, this time of year. It's wet, it's dark. But the bishonen conglomerate enjoy all this beauty! There's a Christmas tree in the igloo, and mulled wine. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Well! It is obvious now you point it out. I could do with some mulled wine and co-sines since I have been up for some 48 hours with the flu, working on the most depressing parts of Wikipedia I can find.  (Mind the New Year's fireworks were a bright spot.)  So here's to 2013! ...what's left of it! Rich Farmbrough, 02:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC).

Happy New Year ...
Ms. Bish, and please extend my warm wishes to the entire family. <looks up>, and your honorable ladyship - please extend good wishes to your nephew(?) Giano as well. I hope everyone (TPS etc) has a wonderful and safe 2013. — Ched : ?  21:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Male members
Yes, it's an odd form of words but the quote comes from a non-native speaker of English, so he's quite possibly not aware of the double meaning... Prioryman (talk) 17:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. The hell you say. Here it is as printed in the source:


 * "The most common reaction is that it's very old, you know, a bit shrunken," he said, "and the male members say 'oh, I hope mine will not look like this when I get old."


 * You can listen to the curator actually saying it, here. His English is very good (Icelanders are practically bilingual with English), but the word "members" is kind of mumbly. "The male uh errs". Inaudible, really. Does he really say "members" (or possibly "visitors"? and is there whatever a "tape splice" would be called today, right there?) The word "members", male or not, is far-fetched in the context. 'Members of the reaction', doesn't make a lot of sense, and the Wikipedian fix, 'members of the visitors' isn't much better. I think the transcribing journalist made a mistake and possibly was also trying to be funny. But obviously it's that text that has to be quoted, shrug. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

Happy New Year!
And to you too, Sandy. Since you're well aware of my last experience of the FAR camaraderie, I'm sure you don't really expect me to go back for more in 2013. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Yep :) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 16:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Love in a Cold Climate
My dear Mrs Bishonen,

Here we all are, the whole family returned from the quiet piste of our Alpine Castle fully invigorated and ready to go. I am having a slight staffing problem; Miss Corpus has not returned from her Christmas sojourn in Las Vegas and the Rev Deepthought has clearly been overdoing the Eucharistic wine in my absence. Hence, here I am in personage.

I have a small problem; beloved Giano obviously over invigorated from his winter sports has dived straight into matters sexual – mistresses! I do think that this edit of his needs your knowledgeable opinion. Naturally, like all ladies of refinement and good breeding, I know nothing of the subject, but I immediately thought of you as an expert. Although, why anyone in such a far flung, ice bound, glacial part of Empire as the Nordics has the inclination for such matters, I can’t imagine – something to do with all those hours of darkness and the TV being full of the population murdering each other in large wooly jumpers I suppose - even poor dear Camilla is now chattering on about it.

I shall leave this delicate matter in your most capable hands, as I am extremely busy running Wikipedia, not to mention my numerous social engagements and being constantly pestered by poor ‘You Know Who’ to lunch with him at the Savoy Grill – What a dear, old man, I expect he wants some advice on how to manage his hard earned retirement, which I implore him to take. Much love The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 09:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I see both the IPs in question are from Auckland, New Zealand. Must be a hotbed of male mistresses with exotic names ("Tony", "Sven"); perhaps I should visit for purposes of research. I've semiprotected the article.


 * I don't think the Swedish... proclivities, insofar as they exist, are much to do with the TV or any modern appliances. When and if the Nordic peoples indulge in such practices, it's presumably to keep warm in the glaciers; however, in my experience, the Swedes are too busy surfing on their pods and pads to have any sex life worth mentioning. As regards TV, I saw a documentary yesterday about Jewish people in Manchester, where somebody (I think a rabbi) explained that Orthodox Jews have a lot of sex, because they're not allowed to have TV, and people have to do something in the evenings. Wow, imagine the Amish! Bishonen &#124; talk 12:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Oh an Australian - I'm not the least surprised; it's all that sunshine and sheep shearing. However, I don’t think we need concern ourselves with the Amish, Americans and Manchurians dear, they all have lots of wives and illicit carryings-on; both Manchester and America are hot-beds of vice and immorality – I banned my daughters from going to either until they were forty-seven, and even then poor, dear Annunciata came back from Manchester with a limp and a stutter and was never the same. Just imagine if she had crossed the Atlantic! Personally, I think all pages on immorality and mistresses should be deleted, but of course, as the First Lady of Wikipedia I have to show my renowned tolerance and open-mindedness. Mind you, if all the nasty, smutty pages were deleted and outlawed, we would lose half our Admins and Arbs who, when not fiddling about with themselves, write such pages – then where would be? The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 13:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I would like to draw to your attention that contrary to Her Ladyship’s comment, I am now returned from my short, unpaid Christmas leave. I was not as Her (geographically confused) Ladyship inferred in Las Vegas, but Llandudno – a quite different holiday destination! Please address all future correspondence to Her Ladyship, in her capacity as First Lady of Wikipedia, to me. Her Ladyship is not to be troubled and neither is the Rev Deepthought – everything must come to me first. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 19:48, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Apology and clarification
The Klbog1987 block is absolutely righteous; if I thought it was off I would have said so on ANI and/or here on your talk page. Edits from the Jester account are 100% tongue-in-cheek crap. I respect your perspective on the rope essay, and although I may (lamely) joke about it I have not and will not use it in actual discussion since you called me out on it. Obviously I'll respect your wishes regarding the talk pages of your accounts on only post here as the Ent. NE Ent 23:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, then I completely misunderstood you, Treebeard, thank you for clarifying. You're welcome on all my pages. Though, well, are you sure that one is mine? I like to pretend Darwinbish is my sock, but check out the timestamps here and here.. a little odd. One of those "my little sister did it (from her own computer)" situations, perhaps. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC).

Apology from fat fingers!
I should have made a New Year resolution - never sit on the sofa messing about with iPad in hand. It's even worse when you then get in a panic to try and revert as quickly as possible. I really do apologise for causing so many problems. I can blame no one but my own stupidity - believe me I hadn't even got as far as reading the comment before the 'machine' then reverted and marked as vandalism. I wonder if it's possible to have a diet simply for fat fingers? SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  21:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, perhaps something corresponding to Monty Python's bottom-slimming Trim-Jeans, but for the hands? I only mentioned my little edit conflict drama on your page because I thought it might amuse you. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:48, 9 January 2013 (UTC).

Reply
I replied to your comment in the clerk section of Arbitration/Requests/Case. -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  22:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I saw, thanks. I do realize it may be a bit pointless, as the case is presumably about to be accepted. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:01, 9 January 2013 (UTC).

So now I know
I'd just assumed you were of the "Say it out loud/I'm bishie and I'm proud!" contingent. I sit corrected. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  21:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no. I'm neither pretty nor young nor a boy; not in fact and not in imagination. It probably sounds very naive, but I just picked the name, in a galaxy long long ago, because I liked the sound of it. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Nothing to apologize for! I'm a guy, but was never pretty and haven't been young since the Nixon administration. If I get compared to anybody Japanese, it's Asahara Shōkō, not Haku or Ciel. :) -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  00:28, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Just because, no particular reason ...
Enjoy :D Enough food and drink for the entire Shoal of Bishes to share, with enough left over for second, third, fourth (N=N+1, repeat ad infinitum) helpings ;P  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 12:14, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, delicious, and even Darwinbish can't manage to eat all of it ahead of everyone else! An ample spread like that is in fact probably the only way I'll ever get to taste any of the eatables posted on my page. Mmmmm, lovely sausages. If you tell me how to make a food slideshow like that, I'll tell you how to make a Compliment Switch like the one at the top of this page! Bishonen, bursting with pride at newly-won skill, 23:25, 13 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Hehe! Get Penyulap unblocked (he made this one for me!) Alternatively, email him with some big hugz and kisses.  Or just play at creating gif files ... (I like the download-it, take-it-apart, analyse-it, make-your-own method of learning ;P) then copy, paste and edit the code :D  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 16:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC) P.S. Ooooh! Just looked at your code!  How cute / kewl is that?!  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 16:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ooooh, sausages! Reminds me ... here are some special ones I made a while ago ...


 * "Ear of sow and gut of boar,


 * All the stuff which fell on t'floor,


 * Snout of gilt, and one black rat


 * Which drowned on falling in the vat,


 * Butcher's thumb untimely chop'd


 * And down into the mincer drop'd,


 * Piglet's hide and youngling's pizzle


 * In the sausage spit and sizzle.


 * Pizzle fizzle, spit and sizzle


 * Barbie, if it doesn't drizzle!"


 * Ketchup, anyone?


 * [exit stage left, cackling]  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 16:29, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Trains, planes and automobiles
I trust this isn't about you. But perhaps it's Bishzilla? I've always imagined her as breathing fire while wearing an engineer's cap. Risker (talk) 14:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was born in 1990, that's very true! You might be enjoying some free association off of this incident. More likely to have been Darwinbish, I suppose. She's considering mounting a flamethrower on her santa hat for next Christmas (last year's version here.) Bishonen &#124; talk 15:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC).

A contradiction in terms
There is no such thing as a "stupid admin"; that suggestion is as ridiculous as considering a non-admin "useful" or an IP editor "non-vandal". I view your implication that there are admins that are less than perfect to be a serious personal attack on the entirety of the admin caste (each and every one), an unambiguous breach of civility, and a clear affront to the Cabal. Consequently, your desysop and subsequent permaban are in the mail, and will arrive in three to five months, after they go through the very important steps of WQA, ANI, AN, ANI again, RFCU, ARBREQ, back to ANI, BN, back to ARBREQ but with a full case this time, through the post office, into the local city planner's office, through the secretary's inbox, into the trash, out of the trash, out of the frying pan, into the fire, out of the fire into the nearest source of water (a disused toilet), and there to be locked for a month behind a door with a sign reading "beware of the leopard", to be discovered and delivered shortly before the entire site is fully-protected, to protect it from the hordes of non-admins (read:vandals) trying to edit (read:insert blasphemous limericks about one's mother into) Wikipedia. Thank you for your cooperation. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:07, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

[EDITOR'S NOTE: It has since come to my attention that WQA has been shut down; I am happy to cross that step out, revise the schedule forward six hours, and exult that WP:NOTBURO reigns at Wikipedia unfettered.) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:07, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I shall look forward to it. About my cooperation: am I required to grovel anywhere? Bishonen &#124; talk 17:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC).
 * There is no requirement, but you may, at your leisure; the resultant feelings of schadenfreude may lighten the mood of the Cabal, possibly allowing them to grant you the extraordinary privilege of leave to appeal your permaban in three years from the start date. You may submit your unban request, signed and notarized in triplicate, along with the required handling fee of 500 US dollars, to the Cabal at <address removed for security concerns>. Please ensure that your payment is in cash, rather than check; this will enable us to process and return your request's decline and revocation of further appeal rights as quickly as possible.  For the Cabal, Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:50, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Cash, huh. Won't the usual Cayman Island account do? You know, where we all submit our regular protection dues? Bishonen &#124; talk 19:29, 16 January 2013 (UTC).
 * It will. Please note that said protection dues are still owed by banned editors; the unban request fee is an addition to these dues, not a substitute.  If you aren't able to make your payments, the Cabal may be able to help: we would be happy to dispatch a local, highly-skilled, and courteous member of our staff who will visit your house and skillfully, courteously break your kneecaps if you are unable to pay. I remain, your most humble and obedient servant, Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:57 (GMT), on this 16th of January in the year of our Lord 2013
 * ((OOC)) I just got "fascinatingly aromatic". Niiiiiice. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:40, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hehehe. I hope people get "well-coiffed" as often as possible. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC).

You personal attack here, calling an admin "stupid" is unacceptable. Please review the relevant policy and take action accordingly. NE Ent 19:32, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not a PA if it's true. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:29, 16 January 2013 (UTC).

January 2013
Please do not attack other editors, as you did to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. ''Please don't go around referring to admins as "stupid". It brings the entire cadre of admins, who by definition are hono(u)rable and intelligent people, into disrepute. If you make a habit of doing this, you'll force me to run for crat so I can unilaterally remove your tool. Don't you have any sense of guilt whatsoever? Weren't you told to not use such bad words, that baby Jesus cries every time you do? Now please do and wash your keyboard with soap, you bad bad Bishonen.'' Drmies (talk) 16:48, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Pfff. All these Johnny-come-latelies tryin' to horn in on my joke. I did it before it was cool, people! Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 16:55, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I see, now, that you have been warned already about this particular incident. Let me note that there is no requirement for hono(u)rable admins such as myself to have the foggiest about that's going on; it takes time away from blocking. Writ Keeper, I've been an admin for longer than you have, so please defer to me. Remember, I know where your kneecaps are (covered in snow by now, probably). (Also, I clicked a few times and I'm at "warm-hearted". Thanks!) Drmies (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you forgotten this so soon? Remember, you can edit Wikipedia only because I allow you to do so. shame there's no "nice tps" entry for "megalomaniacal" or "omnipotent"... Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:14, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, there isn't... but you could easily adapt the nice tps for your own use. Being a very good person, I only create nice (actually fawning) things. Darwinbish can help you, though! Feel free to plant her NPA template on Drmies. It's the insult switch that keeps on giving. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Shit shit shit! I clicked on the diff! Now what I have done, and where? Damn you Writ Keeper! Drmies (talk) 17:49, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Which brings me to another point. Where can we stick in bowels as the seat of emotion in the Hebrew and Christian tradition? Does it fit in Four temperaments? A mention in Intestine? Drmies (talk) 17:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hahaha. Thank you so much, warm-bowelled Drmies. I was actually just about to post the pink box below, in the hope of making the compliment switch more wiki! Bishonen &#124; talk 17:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC).


 * I don't see how that list could be improved: reading it makes me happy on this cold, cold day where I have teach--gasp--the phonetic alphabet. Drmies (talk) 17:48, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

If you've got time
Could you review this and this? I'm trying to find a solution to the Penyulap situation and if you don't mind, I could do with some help. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 20:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh god. There's so much of it. The backstories, I mean, the stuff you're undertaking to research. Grinch, grinch, lazy complaining, sigh, poor me, nooooo.
 * What I mean is, if you're up for it, Worm (and the way I read it, you do most of the work, right? Please tell me I'm right??), I acknowledge that I have a moral obligation here. OK. (But you and Pen and everybody will have to put up with the fact that I'm slow, so please avoid undertaking any deadlines that assume I'll be reasonably quick. That's not something I'm capable of, sorry.) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC).

Would you be so kind
I am just tidying up one of some of my older works which have been vandalised and improved' over the years and keep finding little anomalities. Could you be very kind and take a look at this image File:Boacg-thumbnail.jpg which some pedantic waste of space has deleted for reasons best known to themselves and left the empty link in the page, leaving it looking rather colourless and bereft. Thanks. Giano (talk) 15:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, a sad sight. I suppose you realise how lucky you are not to be an admin, so that you can't trawl through the dreary zombie land of image deletion for yourself?


 * Maxim deleted the image on Wikipedia in 2007, because it existed on Commons with the same name. (This is why you always stick a template on your uploads nowadays, at least I hope you do.) Then, guess what, it got deleted on Commons by User:Ahonc in 2008, for not having a source.


 * I can't take a look at its history on Commons, as I'm not a Commons admin, but according to the image page history on Wikipedia, which I can see, the photo was taken by User:Jtdirl, uploaded by User:Mav  in 2003 (I don't understand that part, but never mind, maybe that's how it was done back then), deleted by Zscout370 in 2005 for being unsourced, re-uploaded by Jtdirl himself with a wrathful edit summary a little later in 2005 ("Image of Bank of Ireland, College Green, Dublin taken by me in 2004 and given by me to Wikipedia under GDFL then. Deleted by some idiot even though covered by GDFL recently. Had to reupload it again"). I know there seems to be some time-travel involved wrt Jtdirl's edit summary about taking the picture in 2004 and Mav's upload of it in 2003, but never mind about that. So certainly there was a source, it was own work by Jtdirl and released under an appropriate licence. But deleted is deleted, since I'm pretty sure all the deletions (three!) happened before it became possible to undelete deleted images.


 * Jtdirl hasn't edited since 2011, so I don't see much percentage in asking him to re-upload it yet again. I've dropped a note on Maxim's page to see if he can help. Bishonen &#124; talk 15:50, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Well why can't some admin (ie you) just undelete - it's a very important picture!!! No wonder I don't trust the incompetents over at Commons - one despairs, one really does! Please point me in the direction of somebody to shout at. Which of the Arbs has Commons as part of their portfolio or responsibility? Giano (talk) 16:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I said I'm pretty sure all the deletions (three!) happened before it became possible to undelete deleted images because the age of the deletion determines it. An admin can undelete an image that was deleted after the magic date when image undeletion became possible — whenever that date was, I'm not sure — but not if it was deleted before that date. Those images are gone, pushing up daisies, singing in the heavenly quire. They're no longer in the database. I was able to look at the image page, with its text and history, but I couldn't see the image, hence I can't undelete it (or I would have, indeed). At least I think that's how it works. Maxim may know more exactly. He's a [reverently] bureaucrat.


 * As for arbs and responsibility, Commons isn't part of Wikipedia, honey. Nothing to do with the arbitration committee. You'd better go shout at one or more of the deleting admins I mention in my post above. Or else wait for Maxim to get here. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Commons' image had such desciption before deletion:

== Sumario == from == Licensing == &lt;/nowiki> Really own work from English Wikipedia? --|EPO| da: 15:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

and was deleted due to the source ws not given after the 7 days.-- Anatoliy  ( Talk ) 16:24, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict with Writ Keeper) Thank you, But I don't understand why it was questioned whether it was "really" own work from English Wikipedia. It was — I looked at the image page history at English Wikipedia, and it's obvious that it was exactly that. Somebody assumed bad faith about it. :-( I don't get it. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Uh, I can still see the deleted image...Check it: . Is there any reason not to just undelete it? Well, other than that the uploader says it was taken in 2004 but it was uploaded here in 2003? Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 16:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh well done! I can't see it because I'm not magic. I'm sure you can just undelete it. Ignore Ahonc above, if he had looked properly he would have seem a perfectly good explanation. No wonder people despair of these admins. If people would just stop fiddling around with images all these description swoul dnot get lost and confused. Giano (talk) 16:32, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've undeleted it and changed the tags around to reflect that it's no longer at Commons and that it's GFDL-licensed. It originally had a public domain tag on it, so maybe that was a source of confusion. Fix/redelete/whatevs as necessary, as always. I almost changed "some idiot" to "some fascinatingly aromatic admin" to avoid the spectre of insult or civility or whatever, but then I decided that I've screwed around with things quite enough already.Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 16:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That is marvellous; thank you so much. Now I can put it back where it belongs. I really think if I had stayed away much longer, there would have been nothing left here to come back to Giano (talk) 16:55, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * (e/c again) Yes, thank, you, Writ Keeper; I was just going to ask you to, referring to the reason I used when I tried to do it(unsuccessfully): Deleted because it had been moved to Commons, but then it was (erroneously) deleted on Commons.. For "erroneously", please see my reply to Ahonc above. It looks like somebody moved it to Commons without bringing the source and licence information along. Well, looks like, it's kind of hard to believe. I know Giacomo has seen many a photo he has himself taken deleted in the teeth of perfectly good info about source and licence. All done by bots presumably, or by admins that are as hasty as bots. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
 * I think one of the problems here is admins on Commons that aren't also admins on enwiki (or vice versa, I suppose). The Commons admin couldn't go back and see the explicit own-work-GFDL release in the deleted comments, since they can't viewdeleted on enwiki unless they're an admin here, too, and since the tags didn't really reflect the situation, wires got crossed. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But that's how it works. Wikipedia images are moved to Commons, then deleted onwiki because they're on Commons, and then deleted on Commons because they can't see the deleted onwiki version. A perfect circle. I really can't see any excuse for such a system. Use at all times, that's all I've got to say. While it still exists, as I've seen attempts to delete or "depreciate"  . No need for any "extra" copies on wiki, most untidy, delete 'em all! Bishonen &#124; talk 18:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Perhaps I am rather slow and stupid, but I have never quite understood the point of Commons - what exactly is it, and what good is it supposed to serve? In my not inconsiderable experience, it's nothing but a complete hindrance and nuisance. Giano (talk) 22:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that in theory, Commons is a great idea. If you upload a picture of, say, a Sumatran tiger to Wikipedia, you can use it here but nowhere else. And after all, the Italian, Swedish, Chinese etc. Wikipedias probably have articles about Sumatran tigers; now we need to go re-upload that image to all of them. And who knows if the editors there will even find the one here on enwiki, anyway. So Commons could be really useful as a place to put images so every project can use it, and so everyone can have a common place to check and see if we already have a suitable image for their articles. That's the theory behind it. Alas, as usual, it doesn't work so well in practice. Their communication with other projects leaves much to be desired, and they are, after all, possibly the one project whose actions most affect other projects (either them or Meta). And then there's the fact that several editors, and not a small number of admins, seem convinced the project's main purpose is to contain penis images in every imaginable form. So yeah, Commons sucks. Great idea in theory, but it still sucks. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:40, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I just go to the Italian Wikipedia, and see how they have uploaded the image and if it's free, I just save it to my computer and then upload it here with an explanation and credit to my Italian comrade. Or I simply go to Italy or Stowe-on-the-Wold and snap the required image myself. That way one cuts out the incompetents at Commons. Just like all unwanted species, if one cuts off the source of their food, they will soon go away. Giano (talk) 10:28, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Just make sure it's an informative image with a penis in it and a keeplocal template. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Vulgarity, Mrs Bishonen, is never an attractive trait. I can assure you that my nephew would never upload such a 'thing'. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 15:48, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, just have miss Corpus upload it, then. She won't mind. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC).

174.60.15.33
Hi Bishonen. User 174.60.15.33 has repeatedly vandalized Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States by changing the names and numbers of presidents on one of the article's polls. I fixed it earlier today, but 174 just returned and did more vandlism. Each time they've vandalised the article, they've done it in separate, multiple edits so that fixing it takes a lot more time because it has to be done manually. Is there any way you can watch the article? I haven't looked at 174's other edits, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're also vandalising other articles. Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 04:30, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking care of it, and for warning them; you did exactly right. I'll certainly keep an eye on the article and the editor. (It's a static IP, so probably a single editor.) That kind of vandalism is much more troublesome than obvious graffiti ("Kevin is teh gay"). The IP has been editing for a long time, but not very frequently, and earlier, in 2011—2012, it wasn't exclusively vandalism. The spurt of bad edits at "Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States" is something of a new departure.


 * Your own IP, by contrast, is dynamic, so I've got no way of telling if you've been editing from other IP's earlier. If you're interested in continuing to revert vandalism, I recommend you to register an account, because with that you could (after a while) get access to the WP:rollback tool, which makes reverting obvious vandalism a lot simpler. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Thank you so much. I really appreciate your help and feedback.


 * While I'm here, I was wondering if you could please give your thoughts regarding the use of photos/images in articles, including having photo galleries in articles. For years, Ctva08 has been adding a lot of random campus photos to the body of Hiram College, in addition to creating an image gallery of even more random campus photos at the bottom of the article. As you can see by his five-year editing history, this is the only article he edits and it's all for photos. I've read various discussions about the use of photos in articles and found some guidelines about it, which all basically say the same thing - that images should be limited to those that have clear relevance to where they are inserted, and there shouldn't be too many of them. They also talk about the use of galleries, saying that articles should not be used as a repository of random photos; that the use of galleries should have a clear purpose to clarify the subject in instances where it would be difficult explain it with text, such as in 1750–1775 in fashion, where the galleries are appropriately used to educate readers about comparisons of clothing styles in different eras. In the Hiram College article, the gallery has no such purpose; it appears to be used strictly as a repository of random photos of the college that Ctva08 has collected. I read WP:galleries and WP:NOTGALLERY, which seem to support my thinking on this. Previously, I did mention to the the editor that based on the relatively short lenghth of the article, I believe there are already an excessive number of photos in the body, not to mention the unnecessary gallery at the bottom, which I have not touched even though I believe it should be removed entirely. I removed two photos from the body of the article recently, but Ctva08 then simply came back and added them to the gallery. So, can that gallery at the bottom of Hiram College be removed since it really serves no purpose other than to be a storage place for random photos - to show various photos of things around the campus? If so, can you remove it with a pertinent edit comment? I would certainly do it myself (if you allow), but I think it would prevent any problems if an experienced editor/administrator made the edit. I believe that Ctva08 is simply not aware of the proper protocol about using photos like this, and so an explanation from a very experienced editor, vs. an inexperienced IP like me, would be much more productive. Thanks, again for your help. I really appreciate it. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, no, I won't do that, it's not really what admins are for. But I've removed some overly promotional material in the lead section, and will check the rest of the article for such, and for unencyclopedic details. Sadly, such things are the rule rather than the exception in educational institution articles. Many experienced and neutral editors remove them now and then, but we tend to be kind of outnumbered. I've put a note on Ctva08's page; please read it, it's meant for both of you. Especially the bit about tone, and dispute resolution. Regards, Bishonen &#124; talk 22:32, 19 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Bishonen, thanks for your input. In terms of the photo gallery in Hiram College, discussion about it with the editor would of course be fruitless because he obviously would say he likes his photos and wants them there. And adding photos to this one article has been the sole purpose of his account for many years - it's obviously his one and only passion on Wikipedia. I actually think the photos are very nice, but I'm simply focusing on guidelines regarding the use of galleries. Based on the various guidelines and discussions I've read, I believe it's clear that the gallery in Hiram College violates appropriate usage. So, based on that, would I be justified in removing the gallery and citing the pertinent guidelines in my edit comments? Again, this isn't personal at all; I really like the photos personally, but I can't let my personal feelings interfere with doing what's appropriate for an encylopedia article. Otherwise, there's no doubt that the editor will simply continue adding random campus photos to that gallery. Thanks. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 22:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S. Your edit comments in Hiram College are funny (and accurate). They made me LOL... literally. You should consider a career in stand-up comedy. :p --76.189.106.37 (talk) 23:05, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I'm thinking of taking my edit summary show on the road. :-) Let's see what Ctva08 says to my note on his page; you notice I've asked him about his Wikipedia interests. Anyway, you'd better not just assume he'll react poorly! I hope it'll get him to take the discussion to the article talkpage. I won't address the image thing — I'm not good at it — I realize it could end up at the Dispute resolution noticeboard. But please try article talk first. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC).


 * If you do take your show on the road, I'll definitely buy a ticket. And it's not that I assume he'll react "poorly"; it's just that this is a very unique situation in that the issue happens to be about the only content that Ctva08 edits on Wikipedia: photos in Hiram College. I really appreciate you acknowledging that you're "not good at" the image thing. Therefore, I'd like to ask if you know any admins who have a lot of knowledge about image policies, particularly the use of image galleries? If so, can you ask them about this and have them look at the Hiram College gallery. If he/she says it's fine, I'll most certainly accept that. I just want to know if the way the Hiram College gallery is being used is appropriate or not. Thanks, Bish (my new nickname for you). --76.189.106.37 (talk) 23:42, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * No, really, I think you should try the talkpage again (it's been quite a while since you were there, and you've never talked with Ctva08 there, in fact he's never posted on it) and if it doesn't work, take it to the Dispute resolution noticeboard. The volunteers there are as good as it gets, and if it's a question about images, they will send their best image guy/gal to deal with it. It's not really ripe for DRN yet, but why not go to the noticeboard now and look. Check out their archives and see what they're all about. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC).


 * I really appreciate your thoughts and certainly understand why you don't want to get involved in the photos issue. However, the policy portion of this issue must be answered first because if editors with expertise in photo policy say that the gallery in the article is fine (adheres to gallery protocol), then there would be no need for a discussion. It would stay. But if they say it is not acceptable and violates appropriate usage rules, then again no discussion would be needed. It would go. If this were a matter involving opinions or an interpretation of a guideline, then I'd be more than happy to discuss it. But of course I'd only do that with an editor who acted in a civil manner; not one who contacts me for the first time and calls me arrogant and questions the genuineness of my edits without ever hearing from me. Again, I simply want to know the policy for using photo galleries in articles. Someone with a lot of experience with galleries can easily look at the Hiram College article and be able to determine very quickly if that image gallery is fine or not. Having two editors debate an issue they know little about - including one who's sole purpose is adding the photos in question - doesn't make any sense to me. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 02:04, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Believe me, it does involve opinions. WP:Galleries and WP:NOTGALLERY are well capable of different interpretations. (Anybody can edit them, too, and discuss on their talkpages, and argue and grumble and, if we're lucky, compromise.) There is no cut-and-dried "gallery protocol". Generally, indeed you need a good reason to add a gallery to an article. But what is a good reason… ? That's obviously not beyond argument.


 * Both you and Ctva08 seem to have gone into terminally affronted mode rather quickly, it seems to me. Please compare the comment I've just put on Ctva08's talk. The first one of you to crank down the rhetoric and try to see the other person's point of view will be the winner here, IMO. For Ctva08's point of view, for example: you are entitled to remove comments from your own talkpage, but you don't expect the poster to like it, do you? — Deleting a person's words as if they were trash. You can't expect them to feel well-received, or heard. Sigh. You may well be right that there's little point in the two of you "debating" the image gallery. (I don't even like your wording there — I was envisaging a discussion, not a debate.) You may already be too angry. I mean both of you. Perhaps you might as well take it straight to the dispute resolution noticeboard. That's a very "lite" process, you know: no more bureaucratic than asking an individual admin, but you'll get more expert advice on the noticeboard. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:05, 20 January 2013 (UTC).


 * P.S. I've seen your comment on Ctva08's talkpage now, and I think we can regard this discussion (the one involving me, I mean) as closed. I hope I've been of some assistance; anyway, I don't feel there's anything more I can do or say. I don't suppose you seriously expect me to go dig out five college articles with galleries… Like I said before, we're all volunteers, and I just don't feel like it. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC).


 * (There was an edit conflict when I tried posting this the first time.) I've replied to your comment on Ctva's page. In term's of removing his comments from my talk page, do you seriously think that going to someone's talk page for the first time and calling them arrogant (twice), and questioning their good faith, should be well received?? And in terms of the image gallery... you need to get your facts straight. There is no debate at all. Where do you see a debate about the image gallery?? Show me the diffs. The "debate" (as you describe it) between Ctva and I had absolutely nothing to do with the image gallery. It was about other content issues. The image gallery issue was a totally separate and new issue. I was simply looking for the the usage protocol for galleries. As I explained, if it's proper usage then I have no problem with it. But my interpreation of the guidelines indicate that it is not proper usage. So I was simply looking for guidance from someone with a lot of knowledge about galleries. I thought you might have that knowledge, but uou admittted you didn't, which I appreciated. But your claims that Ctva and I have been debating or aruging about this gallery issue is, well, fiction. That's why I told you there was no point in discussing it with him on the talk page or going to some noticeboard; I wanted to first be educated by an "expert" on the gallery issue to determine if I pursuing it further was even necessary. You're a nice person and a good admin, but IMO the only person escalating any issues between Ctva and I is you. So please stop it. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 22:34, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * "I don't suppose you seriously expect me to go dig out five college articles with galleries"... yes, actually I definitely expect you will do that. But of course it is your choice whether you will oblige. You made a very important claim on the Hiram talk page - that "hundreds" of college articles have photo galleries - but provided no proof to suport it. As I said, I looked at dozens of college articles and none of them had a gallery. So if it is in fact true that many college articles have photo galleries, you should provide evidence. You claim there are hundreds and I'm simply asking for five. I have tried very hard to find evidence that does not support my position because I'm only interested in doing what's right with regard to galleries. So if there's information that might show I'm wrong, then I need to know that. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 22:44, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Btw, I noticed that Ctva08 replied sarcastically to your inquiry about his connection with the college. He said, "As far as my connection to the College, I may have had some connection in the past, but if this would be perceived as a conflict of interest that would render my contributions less valuable, then I may not have." Again, if he has a conflict of interest, it should be fully disclosed and his participation on the article should be adjusted accordingly. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 22:48, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

174.60.15.33 vandalizing again
Bishonen, User 174.60.15.33 has vandalized Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States for the third time. I know you told me a few days ago that you'd keep an eye on 174, and the article, so I apologize if you already know about this. Another editor fixed the article, but it looks like 174 is not going to stop vandalizing and doesn't care about the warnings. Thanks. --76.189.106.37 (talk) 01:45, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Compliments
Dear Mrs Bishonen,

It has been brought to Lady Catherine's attention that you have a device at the top of your page which can only be described as angling for compliments. Her Ladyship has asked me to express her disappointment at such a device as she feels it will only encourage back-slapping, bar room behaviour and outbreaks of wiki-love - a phenomenon that Her Ladyship considers vulgar. Her Ladyship trusts that it won't be necessary to have to point this out again, as Her Ladyship is quite sure that other visitors to this page find it as distasteful as does Her Ladyship.

Yours sincerely Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 10:09, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, they do. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Actually, I think it tastes oddly of chocolate and strawberry. &mdash; Coren (talk) 20:24, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Does it indeed! Her Ladyship commands me to point out, Mr Coren, that your position at Wikipedia is appointed by Her Ladyship - and what Her Ladyship giveth, Her Ladyship can taketh awayeth. Furthermore, Her Ladyship bids you to remember a deleted page the Spooky Curse of Giano - a page which unnerved many by its accuracy. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 19:17, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've always viewed wiki-love as being meaningless virtual gestures sought by those who don't get enough sex.--Scott Mac 22:03, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe that's a reason why I never passed one? - I would like to tell Bishonen that without angling she just fished a compliment for the gold hat, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * @ Scott ... define "enough" — Ched : ?  19:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Wiki-love is some hot stuff...somebody needs to buy her ladyship an inflatable love MONGO.--MONGO 19:51, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Recursiveness
Hey, don't be like "Oh, don't be like that, Floq", Bish. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I considered my wording there for a long time, experimentally typing and deleting many a... robust adjective (not taken from the compliment switch), but for each of them, I kept coming up against the fact that *I* wouldn't like to be called that, so I landed, very boringly, on the colourless "don't be like that". I'm sorry, I like to write with more vim. See how my natural sweetness is ruining my prose style? It's nothing short of a tragedy. Why aren't you in a good mood? Don't let wikipedia grind you down. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC).


 * You were supposed to say: "Oh, don't be like "Hey, don't be like "Oh, don't be like that, Floq", Bish", Floq." --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of that, you bootless common-kissing applejohn. We aim to disappoint. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC).
 * I now have a replacement for "quisling" in my insult-of-the-week folder. Huzzah! - 124.168.72.151 (talk) 08:34, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha. Check out Darwninbish's NPA template for many more Shakespearean insults for your folder. She stole them, ultimately, from this website. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:46, 29 January 2013 (UTC).

Casting my net wider
Hey, Bish, I've asked Salvio about this already, but since you're looking at this stuff already: Could I get your opinion of Media-hound's edit here? It looks like a legal threat of sorts, directed at AndyTheGrump, particularly the line "If they continue a formal complaint should be made." I've asked Mediahound to retract it after it was brought up at the ANI thread, but he has yet to respond. It's circumspect enough that I'm not entirely comfortable with blocking outright, but the more I look at it, the more it looks like a chilling-effect type threat. What do you think? Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * (Salvio answered and I plan on following his advice, but if you still want to take a look, I'm all ears!) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm no expert on legal threats certainly, but it doesn't look like one to me. Too vague. Furthermore, you can hardly give a person "a couple of hours" to respond and then block if they don't comply; it doesn't make any sense on a volunteer site, they're not obliged to be constantly on line.


 * OK… I see MH just answered on your page. Not very responsive, though, is it? As far as withdrawing anything, it's just fluff.


 * MH has made some very nasty bad-faith-assuming attacks on Andy; I'd sooner block for that. But first they'd need an explicit warning that they'll be blocked if there's more of it. In my opinion. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:22, 24 January 2013 (UTC).
 * As far as the question of online-ness, he's been editing pretty consistently after I posted the first notice, so... I've asked him to redact part of the comment, to make everything clear. Otherwise, if you want to get the ball a-rolling for other issues, I'd support it, but at this point, I probably shouldn't start anything new on my own, for appearances' sake if nothing else. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 23:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have warned Media-Hound. I hope he listens. If not, I hope somebody else blocks him, because I'm going to bed now. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:06, 25 January 2013 (UTC).
 * I've also been wondering what to do about nonsense accusations and abuse from MediaHound, although not as severe as the ones against AtG.
 * Perhaps MH simply doesn't like those of us named "Andy". :-)
 * I arrived at this talk page while clicking around talk pages trying to remember what the WikiPedia procedure is for complaining about wiki-etiquette problems with editors. I would welcome advice from a more experienced editor. (I notice that MH himself seems to be drafting a new procedure for such things! ) APL (talk) 01:58, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah...I wouldn't recommend paying attention to that page. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 02:10, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Peonies
And there was me thinking he'd missed a 'g' out. I always fancied being a Turtle dove. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Ched's a good guy. I may write him a paean some day. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC).


 * At this rate I'll be on this cover by next month. :) — Ched : ?  16:04, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oldwelcome
Hello, just letting you know that I've made an edit to your Oldwelcome template, reflecting that it's not for general use. Feel free to revert that if you wish. Also, I've recently made a boring version at Template:Oldwelcome2.

Thanks --Half past  formerly SUFCboy   19:23, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for keeping me in the loop, and good idea with the humour template. I've put in Yomangani's template instead, though (it's funnier :-)). Please see what you think; is it clear enough? And for your .2 version, also a good idea to create that. But since it's meant to be taken seriously, I removed the bit about signing with four tildes. I just can't imagine an oldbie having the slightest trouble with that, so I thought it kind of ruined the effect. Do feel free to revert if you don't approve. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC).


 * For more inspiration: "As we say: Be bold!" "Happy editing!" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Request for review. Thank you. Salvio Let's talk about it! 21:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. I don't want to scare you, there is nothing worrying in that AN discussion.  Salvio  Let's talk about it! 21:31, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you, but I don't think I'll bother with AN, I'm a bit tired of it. I spoke my piece on your page and you even mentioned it on AN, so I'm good. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC).

A beer for you!

 * Thank you, very refreshing. I just posted on your page, at practically the same moment. Perhaps Stopnow001 removes content more by accident, at least that time. They're obviously not used to Wikipedia. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC).

Re: you only live once
I don't really know why, but yes, people definitely do that. I think they think it makes them cool or something, like they're demonstrating how much they don't care by being an idiot and then saying "yolo" after doing something stupid or "rebellious." I don't think that people do it as much as a lot of people on the internet seem to think, but it does happen. Thingg <sup style="color:#33ff00;">&#8853; <sup style="color:#ff0033;">&#8855; 20:57, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You do mean people as old as twelve..? :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 21:57, 31 January 2013 (UTC).
 * IIRC, Shirley may disagree with "yolo" — Ched : ?  22:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Check it. MastCell Talk 23:14, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * . --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:15, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Curse you, MastCell!!!! --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * U mad bro? MastCell Talk 01:00, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Jealously... Its an ugly thing. Killer Chihuahua 01:08, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support cursing MastCell, per Floq. Killer Chihuahua 23:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Change to oppose because it made MastCell sad. Killer Chihuahua 14:33, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I second the puppy. — Ched : ?  23:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

....But you can spell!
I'll finish your comment..."I don't understand army stuff, but..." by adding least I can spell! Witch is shurely wht yu wunted ot say in ful....lol Don't hold back! Spell it out! And though somewhat obsolete, you deserve an army tank in case you need to protect yourself and Bishzilla is far off destroying some city.--MONGO 19:25, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, thank you, what a nice little gift. Unfortunately I was unable to prevent the darwinbish from leaping lightly into the open… err, hrm… manhole, at the top. Take cover. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:33, 3 February 2013 (UTC).
 * There is a word that is more evil than "transcend"...that word is:--MONGO 21:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * [Bishzilla wakes up. Interested :] Is the little MONGO seductive as well as evil?   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    14:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC).


 * List of calvary regiments is still a redlink. Based on a Google search, this has potential for a long, immaculately sourced list. Hans Adler 08:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hah. Sounds like a little job for Darwinfish. He might want to create a whole calvary regiment project. (Already a member of WikiProject Antarctica Highways!) Bishonen &#124; talk 14:15, 6 February 2013 (UTC).

Page header
Hello, reader. There's no need to post "Talkback" or "You've got mail" templates here. I watch my e-mail, and also your talkpage if I've posted on it. (Click [ here] if you want another compliment.)

MOS and ArbCom
I welcome your offer to post a request for arbitration as a neutral editor in the recent AE matter.

I see several advantages to this. 1) New eyes. Long-time participants may able to express the issues more succinctly to someone who has not already formed an opinion on an issue. Indeed, this is the much of the real work of an ArbCom case, providing a forum for the exchange of ideas between parties that is necessary to any resolution. "2) It is simply too dangerous for any involved editor to do so."

—Neotarf (talk) 01:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I'm probably treating something important too flippantly, but when I saw the section title "MOS and ArbCom", I thought to myself: That's probably a good working definition of Hell. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:11, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * LOL. To me, it's "[insert your real world conflict] and ArbCom". ;-) --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 02:21, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * There are new arbs now, the "new eyes" principle may mean fresh insights from that group as well. —Neotarf (talk) 02:28, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear from you, Neotarf. I was in fact thinking along the lines that I might be able to express myself more succinctly, yeah… and with luck without myself getting caught in the vast sticky webs of MOS. (What was the name of the spider monster in the Lord of the Rings, Floquenbeam?) But Sandstein has responded that he intends "later this week" to post a request for clarification about appellate procedure for people who don't accept discretionary sanctions warnings. I'll wait for that. There may turn out to be a simpler way than RFAR, or rather, the arbs may invent an appellate procedure in response to Sandstein, because I don't think anything like that has come up before. Or they may stonewall again, no doubt. Again, I'm willing to start an RFAR if that's what remains. I'd want to hear what SMcCandlish thinks about it first, though. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:11, 6 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Ungoliant or Shelob, depending on if you're a First Age kind of person, or a Third Age kind of person. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:08, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Shelob sounds about right. "Bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness." If I do request anything related to MOS, I shall have to be fleet of foot. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:50, 6 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Thank you. This seems to be the appropriate policy page. But Shelob, ha ha, no, the MOS is not alive, more like DNA. The bots and gnomes use bits of it to polish the 'pedia. And like DNA it is subject to repair and mutation. But fleetness of foot, yes. Even at its best, MOS is not for the faint-hearted. —Neotarf (talk) 17:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sandstein delivers: Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment — HaugenErik (talk) 00:10, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. Thanks. Most of the arb comments so far seem well-reasoned. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:34, 9 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I am sorry, but "Even at its best, MOS is not for the faint-hearted" makes no sense whatsoever. All of Wikipedia is by necessity equally welcoming of all participants. If the current climate at MOS is not thus, that needs to be changed immediately. Apteva (talk) 18:36, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Er.. OK, Apteva. If you think you achieve something by replying in this place to a comment from nine days ago, not made by me, be my guest. Bishonen &#124; talk 18:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC).

Crat LOL
Well played :) -- Avi (talk) 17:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hehe, thanks for the attention. And a nice and concise comment, Avi! (See what I did there?) Bishonen &#124; talk 17:14, 7 February 2013 (UTC).

User:Klbog1987
Can you please block him permanently? I saw where you already levied a 24-hour block on him per an ANI discussion. This user repeatedly adds false and/or unverifiable information into articles and templates. Every single time, without fail, another editor has left him messages regarding his behavior he has blanked his talk page without (a) responding, and (b) altered his behavior. His incompetence is staggering. For the good of this online Encyclopedia, please get rid of him. Thanks in advance. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What a coincidence, I was just checking out the user's edits. But I decided not to act, because I have so very, very little understanding of sports-related articles. Pretty much all the editing on them is a deep dark mystery to me. I think your concerns are very probably well-founded, but could you please take them either to a more sports-minded admin, if you know such a one, or to the incidents noticeboard? P.S., in either case, you'd probably like to give a link to the earlier ANI thread. Here it is. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:34, 7 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I've asked User:Zagalejo. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:27, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For your diff guide: for a solution that uses whichever http or https server you're on and works with wp:popups. --RexxS (talk) 23:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Rex. I realise that's simpler for the nerd population, but it's not simple in the sense of "simple diff and link guide". It's more mysterious for us lamers. I'll leave you or darwinfish to put it into the Complete diff and link guide, which is where I think it belongs. Unless it's already there..? I don't remember. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:13, 9 February 2013 (UTC).

re: "spam ban"
hmmmm ... I guess I coulda linked that to WP:SPAM, but meh. Yea, I should know that anything "understated", "overstated", "humorous", "dry", or "sarcastic" simply doesn't play out well in the written genre. Your point is taken, and I stand corrected. I humbly appear here to accept my well deserved "trout". As we are approaching the Easter season, and it's Friday - I may as well make a meal of it though, so any "chips" or "fries" with that would be welcomed too. :-) — Ched : ?  12:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Ched. It's just that the people who reckon up the results of ANI polls tend to go extremely formal about it (in self-defence, no doubt) — 'What exactly did that person support?' — and hence understated and overstated can both be risky. Here's your trout. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Perhaps subconsciously in a je ne sais quoi fashion I felt there was an attractive lilt to the term "spam ban" .. :-D — Ched : ?  22:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Red wine with fish? Really?  Risker (talk) 03:04, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A classic in Norway, and I could easily fancy it myself. But this trout was uploaded by a Britisher so it does seem culturally incorrect. I presume we all remember the Bond scene, on a train, wasn't it? Anyway, the scene where the red wine with fish was such a help to him. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:15, 16 February 2013 (UTC).
 * LOL <literally. And now my dog thinks I'm nuts>.  Hey - I haz cooth; I just grabbed the wrong box.  — Ched :  ?  13:36, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Another atrocity
I have just been smartening up my beloved aunt to bring her more into line with how other editors want an eminent page to look and noticed some clot has, without warning, deleted two of the images - I believe one of them was uploaded by you, perhaps you could retrieve them. I really think this needs to happen quite quickly before she and the staff return from their yachting cruise in the Med and notice the defilement of the page.  Giano  13:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What a magnificent infobox! I can't seem to do anything about the redlinked images, but help should be on its way, please see this. Bishonen &#124; talk 15:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * also why can't I get the info box to display her neighbours ad cousins, all the other essential details of an informative info-box? Sometimes, I do really miss Jack! 13:39, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * How do you mean? If you just edit the page as a whole, the editable infobox will be right at the top. Bishonen &#124; talk 15:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC).


 * I'm just headed off, so can't really help too much... but Miss Bish, try this link <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 15:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Very nice fixes Worm; thank you. However, you have shrunk my magnificent info-box. I do think the size of the info-box should reflect the status of the subject. That way, some gnat with no attention span, won't even have to read the info-box, he will just know he's looking at an important person.  Giano   15:51, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * My apologies! I hope my recent change goes some way to restoring your dear aunt's self worth. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 15:56, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


 * [17th edit conflict. I need my dinner.] Perhaps some other clever tps can do something about the two redlinked images. I just don't understand how to get to look at the images themselves (yes, Writ Keeper, I know you have demonstrated it but I didn't get it that time either, sorry. :- I can't see what the delete reason was either. The probably adorable baby picture File:CdeB4.jpg in the same article page has the same problem also. (The fixes were mainly by Bishapod, Giano.) Bishonen &#124; talk 16:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Hmmm. Well, it looks like CdeB4.jpg is a derivative of File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1989-0322-506,_Adolf_Hitler,_Kinderbild.jpg. To see the image (as an admin), you just need to go to the undelete link and scroll to the bottom where it has the file history rather than the page history. If it's not been sorted by the next time I log on, I'll get them done :) If someone could find the original of the wedding party, I'd appreciate it though. <span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;"><b style="color:#000000">Worm</b> TT( talk ) 16:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's much better Worm. Now, next. we must please the info-box crowd, so how can I add her neighbours, dearest and closest friends, hobbies, shoe size, vital statistics and medical history. I tried, but they won't display.  Giano   16:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem with that is the template the infobox uses; it doesn't have fields for things like neighbors, so they won't show up. Your best bet is probably to subst the template into the article and then add the fields by hand; you could also make a copy of the template and add the new fields in there, which would abstract the wikicode a bit. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 16:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * well it won't be much of an info-box, if people are expected to actual read the article - people have busy lives and somc ecan't even read.   Giano   16:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, I've restored the baby picture, I can't for the life of me figure out why it was deleted. It says there's no source information, but the source was clearly stated on the information page. Oh well. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 16:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'm always having these problems - I think they have difficulties getting decent admins these days.  Giano   16:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Awww, cute, thanks. As for sourced images getting deleted, in my experience that's just business as usual on Commons. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC).
 * How terribly serendipitous, this popped up on my watchlist just above the Massacre of Glencoe so I had to have a look. Her ladyship's first great work brings to mind the Laird's distant adventures.... dave souza, talk 17:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think I had indeed already enjoyed the swashbuckling "Scrøtum where åre my bøøts" adventure. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 18:31, 15 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I have returned from my sailing expedition and am gravely displeased! Who, precisely, is on charge of Info-Boxes on this encyclopaedia? You can all stop cowering Mrs Bishonen,put those trembling Bishopods back in their kennel . Just give me his name. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 20:20, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In charge of infoboxes? Hmm. [Considers throwing Worm That Turned to the wolves, but it seems cruel.] Err. …Floquenbeam ! That's it! Floquenbeam is almost certainly in charge of infoboxes! Bishonen &#124; talk 21:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I have it on good authority that a certain James Wales (no relation to Wills or Harry) is ultimately in charge of Infooboxen. --RexxS (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's right, I am almost certainly in charge. In the near future, I plan on rolling out a new infobox that's the full width of the page, for use on all architectural articles. This "Cathy" person does not frighten me in the slightest, as I have complete inerrancy on my side. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Wait. Someone is actually in charge of something around here? My my, I am most certainly very behind the times then. One question. Has anyone told the children yet? — Ched : ?  21:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I am in charge here. Secondly, Mr Floquenbeam is now 'persona non grata' we shall not discuss him further. Now, regarding info-boxes - we don't want them do we? Despite this clever Giano and Signor Pondevaro have devised a solution that some twitter is now trying to underhandedly sink  - so you all  need to go an opine here. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 17:44, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi
As I wish not to interact with the IP from yesterday I would be happy if you could inform the IP that comments like this one at my talk page and this at the talk page of the Killing of Travis Alexander article is not appropriate. Especially since we were both told to let it go less then 24 hours ago. I dont know why the IP wants to keep on the personal conflict and some sort of smear campaign as I have had no interaction with the IP since yesterday. The IP is reacting to me asking for move-protection of the article in question after the latest move that I changed back today, something I think both you and me could agree is needed IF the name changes to the article continues to be done. I am tired of being attacked by this IP now especially since I have not interacted with it for some time. Thanks. --BabbaQ (talk) 18:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I really don't want to go down this road again...
 * "Especially since we were both told to let it go less then 24 hours ago."
 * And I have let it go; and haven't edited the article since or EVER moved the name. However, you have been involved in an edit war with ANOTHER user and then cited this as a reason to fully-protect the article. That is all I have issue with, and I stand by my remarks. Please just let it go and stop trying to ensure every aspect of the article is to your POV. Thanks again. 87.232.1.48 (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Firstly there are no edit war as I simply reverted back the name change to the consensus name change of Killing of made by user MaxxFordham. Secondly I can edit the article and so can you, I will never stop edit articles just because you tell me to or dont want me to 87.232.1.48. Dont add personal attacks at my talk page and at the talk page of the article in question again. This is my only response to you and I will not respond further to your attempts at smearing my name. Lastly I ask you again to let your personal vendetta against me that you have for whatever reason go. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:45, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I am in absolute shock here. I don't want to stop you editing the article; You want to stop everyone editing it, that's my point! You say: "I can edit the article and so can you, I will never stop edit articles just because you tell me to or dont want me to"... but it is you that want to get the article full-protection and stop everyone from editing it, that's what I'm saying. You cite problems that you're mainly responsible for, it's mind blowing... Anyway, very rich claiming I'm doing personal attacks when you have constantly accused me of  POV-pushing and have a personal vendetta. Come on. 87.232.1.48 (talk) 18:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's a thought - both of you go find something completely unrelated to edit for a bit, stay off each others talk pages, have a cup of tea - and stop bickering for a while. Then, a few days/weeks down the road - consider assuming the best of the other editor, and see if you can calmly, quietly, and maturely reach some sort of compromise and/or consensus on whatever seems to be the issue. — Ched :  ?  19:32, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree fully with your suggestion. And yes, I had already moved on and not interacted with the editor when it contacted me again in a combative tone. And also left an insulting message at the Killing of Travis Alexander articles talk page. Me reverting the name change back to the consensus of Killing of.. was needed and Bishonen agrees with that I do hope. Anyway, if the IP is willing to let his vendetta go against me, and that he removes the insulting message at the talk page of the article, and promise not to attack me at my talk page anymore I will have nothing to respond too and thereby problem solved. It is really simple, dont contact me at my talk page and I will not contact you and dont write about me personally/insulting at any articles talk pages. Hope that is agreeable.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I hope this cooled down while I was away; thanks for timely post, Ched. BabbaQ, I just declined your protection request on WP:RFP, and nobody else is likely to be prepared to protect the article at this point either, since I only recently unprotected it and nothing much has gone down since. As I said on article talk, I will indeed move-protect if it's moved again. (Admin talkpage stalkers, please do that for me if there's a post about it here while I'm asleep!) But I believe in minimalism where protection is concerned. If/when there's consensus for a new title, people shouldn't have to request unprotection, especially considering that the unfolding events may make that happen pretty soon. But yes, you certainly did right to revert the name back to "Killing of..", BabbaQ; I'm sorry if it sounded like I was complaining on article talk of your action there, because that wasn't what I meant at all. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC).
 * That's fine Bishonen you are completely right and I trust that you will moveprotect the article if necessary. And I hope you do understand my frustration with these two comments, directed towards me by the editor IP. My only wish now is for the IP to let go of his evidently strong and steamingly angry feelings towards me so that we can go on with other edits and don't bother each other. I feel bad to drag you into this again, I do apologize but the user continues to want to have contact with me and seem to be in a combative mood towards me for whatever reason. Thank you for your good work and nice way to handle this Bishonen.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that the IPs reaction was a major overreaction and not appropriate in tone. And I think that the insulting comment to my talk page was unecessary to say the least. But now that you have taken care of it I guess no further actions are needed. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bishonen, glad it's all resolved now. Maybe my reaction was a bit over the top; but I would not have reacted like this had it been a once off. It is just constant protection seeking from BabbaQ for stuff he initiates and I feel it would be damaging to wiki to block articles where there is no risk of vandalism, which seems to be his intent time and time again. I hope this is the end of it all, and what to apologise for wasting your time. It frustrates me when BabbaQ accuses me of personal attacks and that I "continues to want to have contact with.." him as that is utter rubbish, and it is his seemingly strong agenda to get the article blocked that I am against (particularly as he contributes dramatically to conflicts with numerous editors, and then cites these as reasons!) Regards, 87.232.1.48 (talk) 22:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please let me know how I "initiated it".. as user MaxxFordham was the one who once again changed the article name against consensus and left a message at the articles talk page calling me "dumb", and may I say you seemed to really like and encourage that statement. Also that I requested protection was perhaps not the best as I should have contacted Bishonen, but that still does not give you the right to instantly go on the attack mode against me both at my talk page and the articles talk page. If you had contacted me with a polite tone it would have been resolved and no egos would have been hurt. Even better you should have contacted Bishonen and asked him in a polite tone to look at the request, instead you contacted me in a comabtive tone and you obviously wanted me to react by confronting you which I have decided not to do. Learn from your mistake and I will learn from mine. I will not respond any further to this discussion as it is over and dealt with properly by Bishonen. And once again IP let go of your heated emotions that you evidently holds towards me. I also dont appreciate your total lie and slander concerning your ludicrous comment (particularly as he contributes dramatically to conflicts with numerous editors, and then cites these as reasons!) towards me,  if you have problems with me atleast dont make up lies. Just let go of the hate and the wanting to contact me constantly. And don't bite me again. Hope you will be able to move on now because I will not take lightly on being attacked by you again at my talk page.Anyway, I will not respond any further to this discussion as it is over and dealt with properly by Bishonen.That's all Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "no egos would have been hurt..." I see why you've been so hostile to even the slightest criticism now, and I apologies for hurting your ego. Dear God. 87.232.1.48 (talk) 23:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I was actually refering to you by that comment. IP ... if you give hostility you get hostility. Learn from your mistakes. Now move on and please stop contacting me even though I know you probably want to. Goodbye hopefully forever my friend :)--BabbaQ (talk) 23:18, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Update: more moves
The article has been moved again, indeed several times, by the same user (not one of the people posting above). But since all the disruption is coming from a single user, I have resisted the temptation to protect and instead simply warned that person strongly on their talkpage. Bishonen &#124; talk 09:48, 19 February 2013 (UTC). Yes, one single user: babbaq. MaxxFordham (talk) 10:13, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

To Bishonen
To distance this comment from the discssion I would only like to thank you for showing patience with this situation. I will stand firm that I had no intention to have further contact with the IP and I hope this will be the end of our interaction. Hope you are not totally drained from this ;) thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, no, but please disengage right now both of you. No more posts to or about each other on this page, please, or on each other's usertalk for that matter. Keep discussion of the article on article talk — completely without personal remarks, please. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:25, 18 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Haha, I have every intention to do so. Hopefully the IP does so too.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Your Comments on My Talk Page About the Above Article We're Talking About
Well, "Maxx Fordham" is just my user name. So if you're going to call me that, or just the first part of it, that's fine, all right. But just be aware that that's not my real name (as most of these aren't) even if it sounds like a real name. (I used 2 xs to try to make it look fake on purpose.) My real first name is Mike.

I have some questions for you about all this:

Why are you supposedly an administrator here? How do the Wikipedia executives decide who supposedly deserve that "badge of honor"?

The points you tried to make in my page have some problems:

1. No, I don't *watch* the talk page over there; I only have visited there recently a few times, enough to have noticed a few things being said on it.

2. No, not all of what you're calling "disruptiveness" is coming from me. (Well, not really any disruptiveness from me, even though you might be calling what I was doing from me.) Don't you remember a user named babbaq who was causing disruption there?

3. Hmm... "consensus," huh? Well tell me something there, Joe: Define "consensus." Since when has there already supposedly been a "consensus" there if it doesn't include me and my points?

4. Why is there such a big deal against naming the article with "Homicide"? babbaq Didn't just like "death," and it seemed that s/he didn't like anything except "murder." How was just "killing" satisfactory then? And if neither "killing" nor "death" are murder, but s/he sort of accepts "killing of" now, then why not "homicide," even though that has even more meaning of "one human being killed by another" (closer to murder, but still not quite) than just "killing of..." does (because industrial accidents and animals also kill people, and that's not homicide)? And why wouldn't that satisfy the other Wikians arguing about it too, since it still doesn't mean what murder means (add "...for an unjust reason")?

MaxxFordham (talk) 10:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)


 * 1. You seem to have had plenty of opportunity to notice the article talkpage discussions, including my link to ANI. You corrected (mistakenly) a supposed spelling error here within minutes of performing the move! And the IP put a link to the discussion here on my page on your talk. When I saw that, I was seriously tempted to take it in lieu of a warning and block you on the spot.


 * 2. No, I don't see BabbaQ doing that.


 * 3. Please see WP:CONSENSUS. It's used in a bit of a special sense on Wikipedia. It doesn't mean everybody agrees; if it did, every article would be locked in eternal disagreement. Not many people were involved here, but the others did come to an agreement suitable to the present situation with the court case. You seem to have stopped discussing when they started to resolve it. Most significantly, you didn't even comment on Darkness Shines' move to "Killing of..".


 * 4. It may not be a big deal. I don't personally care what you call it.


 * You're really on borrowed time. If I had seen it sooner, you would have been in big trouble over the rudeness of this post. For the process for becoming an admin, see WP:RFA. For me being an admin, see the admin list here. And don't call me Joe, Shirley. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:19, 19 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I would just like to inform Bishonen that user Maxx has made changes to your latest post at his talk page. Again with the article name.BabbaQ (talk) 12:54, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Changing another user's post? Really? A very poor idea. Thank you, BabbaQ. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:19, 19 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Yes, you're welcome. I have to admire your patience with this user, had it been me and I had to choose I would have blocked the user already. I do hope the user take this last chance and become productive instead of ridiculous and disruptive. --BabbaQ (talk) 20:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I hope you understand my quite blunt and honest reply as I have a much lower tolerance level to what I consider just disruptive behaviour from other user's then you:). Good that you took action against the user's changing of your post that is not acceptable just as unacceptable as him calling me "dumb", good work. --BabbaQ (talk) 23:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but the user hasn't edited in a while, and there's no need to talk about blocking at this time. I understand you resented their rudeness towards you, but please oblige me and don't mention or address the user any more in any forum now, unless they should cause problems when they return. I don't want them to feel unwelcome here (on the site or on my page). Bishonen &#124; talk 00:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Yes, lets hope for the best!BabbaQ (talk) 00:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

(Okay, resetting the indentations. I don't want to try to keep up with them.) All right, Bis, thanks for delaying a blocking with just a warning. That's the equitable thing to do, unlike what someone else, who is right amongst us here, might have wrongfully done. Well, we have a long list of things to go back over here, but please don't block me with this, okay? I'm just continuing because I still have some rebuttal questions for your last response to me. So here we go: I have to commend you for your patience with babbaq, because of all that extra arguing and article name-changing he was doing before I noticed and got on the scene. babbaq, Of course I realize you guys are talking about me. For one thing, it's right under the heading that I started, and it's right along with all this stuff I've been talking about. But I WASN'T being "ridiculous and disruptive." Maybe you were, though, with all that extra argument you were doing in that talk page that was ruffling feathers a lot. Okay, just to explain a bit: I simply called you dumb because I was just really frustrated with all of your overreaching arguments that were making some people get flabbergasted, and it seemed like you were taking it on as if you had some kind of vendetta against anyone who wanted not to prematurely call the situation a murder yet. All right, well I think we can let that one go now. Right? Oh, but it wasn't actually "good work" that he took action against my having adjusted something there on my talk page a little bit. Now, obviously you're likely following my talk page, which is probably why you knew about what happened to Bish's response there. But WHY? Since when is it supposedly "your business" what's getting written on my talk page (at least where it's not about you)? But I've gotta say, Bis, it's funny to see you say that I haven't edited that article for a while. It's been only barely about a day now. :) Anyway... well now let me ask you this: How was my correction of "defence" into "defense" supposedly "mistaken"? What are you saying: all this time they've taught us that in school, suddenly now it's "wrong," even despite what the dictionary tells us? (But by the way, if I were to somehow make a spelling, word-usage, punctuation, or other grammar error at some point, I *do* want you to correct it for me, so as to help me avoid the embarrassment of its continuation to exist!) Now here's the itemized list you and I were going over: 1. Yeah, I noticed the talk page over there, but I hadn't read through all of the responses. There's just so much of it! So I missed any talk there about anything being on the ANI. I hadn't even given the ANI the slightest thought over this until now. Well I guess I'll have to go check it out now, huh? 2. How can you say that you "hadn't seen" babbaq doing any of those disruptive name changes, when in fact he was apparently doing it (from "death" back to "murder"), and getting complained to about it, even before I came on the scene? 3. No, I didn't have a problem with "death of...," but when I went to correct it back from babbaq's errant "murder of...," I couldn't do it. So I found a word that was also correct, but even more descriptive, "homicide," and changed it to that. And it's even better anyway. So why couldn't you and the other people have consented to that one? I hadn't noticed that there was already some sort of supposed "consensus" already forming by the time I had gotten there and inserted my parts of the discussion. But apparently you're saying there was. So does that mean that I was just somehow "too late too the party to join" and have my angle considered as part of that supposed consensus? 4. Well, I wasn't just asking about why you thought it was a big deal. I was talking about everyone who had supposedly already formed that consensus you keep talking about. Okay, so you "don't really care what we call it," huh? Well, I imagine you still wouldn't want it to be called "murder" before that's been determined. Right? Also, if you don't care, then why are you part of the consensus group? Also, if you don't care, then why should any of the others have an issue with the word "homicide" either? Oh, and why are we doing this all on your page now, instead of sending stuff back and forth to each other's pages, like where you started it on mine and then I came over here? Yeah, I wondered why, event though I saw my adjustment change back, you didn't also put your response there. Well, we can do it this way, I guess, then. But I'm still curious: How did you decide whose page to stick with? I already knew that you are an admin.; I was just asking why you were one. You're not the only one I wonder about when wondering how the admin. thing works. I haven't read WP:RFA yet, but I guess I'll have to now if I'm going to understand how and why you got chosen as an admin. But I can say this: your respect for warnings before action is what makes you a better candidate than... aghehm... someone else here close to us in this conversation. ;-) MaxxFordham (talk) 03:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * "Defense" is American spelling, "defence" is British, both are correct. Don't change somebody else's variant of English. See WP:ENGVAR.


 * 1) See 4.
 * 2) And before I came on the scene too. It's over, it's been resolved, stop beating a dead horse.
 * 3) You don't remember it right. See the history. You moved it from "Killing of..", which Darkness Shines had moved it to, per the end of, and, when that had been reverted, again from "Killing.." to something else. What for? Why stir it up all over again when both BabbaQ and the IP were happy with the new name "Killing of", which you never commented on? That was the place to get your "angle considered", not via move edit warring. If you think it's too boring to read right through a talkpage thread called "Naming of article", then please don't jump in and repeatedly change the name of the article, you know?
 * 4) I'm not part of any "consensus group". I'm adminning this, for my sins. No, I'm not going to block anybody for being argumentative. But it's very boring. Yes, indeed, why are we doing all this on my page? You could have replied on your own instead of taking it here, which might have been better, in hindsight; but it's hard to know at the start how these things will develop. I'm tempted to tell both BabbaQ and you to get off my page and take the quarrel to one or both of your own pages. But instead I tell you this: stop it both of you with describing each other's behaviour (oh, is that a spelling mistake?) in lurid, or any, terms. Cold. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Give my talkpage, the article talkpage, and all talkpages a rest until you have something to say that's about how to edit the article from now on. And once you do, that goes on article talk. If you must respond here, do; but I'm tired of it, and it's odds on I won't reply again. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC).
 * To be fair Bishonen you kind of asked for a reply with this comment. Anyway, I have nothing further do add about anything concerning this subject so for me it is over and done with. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm gaining on you
You may have ArbCom "in your pocket" but I have my very own MeatPuppet, a former ArbCom clerk, no less: Sockpuppet investigations/KillerChihuahua (now unfortunately RevDel'd for no reason that I can see.) Next, I will get an Arb MeatPuppet, and then I too, shall slowly draw in each and every Arb until they are all in MY pocket! Mwah-hah-hah! (cue scary music) Killer Chihuahua 16:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Dogs don't get to have pockets for good reason and I should know. --Rexx the Wonder Dog ( wuf ) 18:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Drat, foiled again! It's always the little things, innit? Killer Chihuahua 20:25, 19 February 2013 (UTC)


 * It's RevDel'd now? I read it before it was, haha, because I was alerted by ANI to your recent disgrace. Now who was it that reported Geogre and I were the same person... hmm... Hollow Wilerding, probably, in the early fourteenth century. That was a very elaborate report, with a lot of suspicious coincidences in time, oddly enough, as Geogre and I are in quite different timezones. That report on you wasn't nearly as impressive! Mere meatpuppetry! And if you're thinking of attempting to turn little Newyorkbrad from Bishzilla's Voice on ArbCom to yours (going yap! yap! I presume?), I can only advise you to "be bold, be bold, and everywhere be bold" except in Bishzilla's pocket. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:17, 19 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Well, I'm semi-bold. I didn't know about the ANI thing 'til you mentioned it here and I went to look. I've got to stop taking weekends off. I miss all the crazy stuff. Killer Chihuahua  20:25, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course there's always that very elite group (of 1?) who exists in such exclusive air as to having Godkings renounce their use of blocking tools. Now that's a tough feat to match. — Ched :  ?  13:14, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You would bring that up. I know I'm never going to match that mark of distinction... if for no other reason than because of the shitstorm when it happened last time. Even Godkings can learn, apparently. Killer Chihuahua 13:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yea, that one certainly did rock our little wiki-world. You know, to be honest, there really is a lot about Jimbo that I like and perhaps even admire.  What he and Larry did here was absolutely amazing.  I guess it was like finding out about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.  The whole "Pride goeth before..." thing of refusing to offer a simple apology was almost sad to me.  But it was long ago, and perhaps in a galaxy far away.  Long live the puppy cabal and all 'Zillas great and small. :-) — Ched :  ?  13:57, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, we had an email exchange about it, I'd say half a dozen emails. It was one of the worst cases of IDHT I've ever seen. OTH, he was reasonably decent about my stalker. Feet of clay, though, like all us mortals. Killer Chihuahua 14:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

J. R. R. Tolkien
Since you've put semi on this article, can I remove the Pending Changes? So long as semi is active, there will be no edits that require approval. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 03:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Ed, please do. I did realize PC wasn't needed any more, and puzzled about how to remove it — I've never protected a PC page before — but it wasn't obvious to me how to do that, so I decided it would go away automagically. It's my nature to be optimistic like that. :-) Bishonen &#124; talk 04:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC).
 * And it worked! Ed automagically appeared to fix it! How cool is that? Killer Chihuahua 12:28, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

No such word...
I fully agree with this edit, and indeed I had been thinking of doing much the same myself, but on searching I found to my surprise that there actually is such a word: see, for example, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/educationist. That doesn't matter in the least, because there are several other reasons why your revert was right, but I just thought you might be interested to know. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:28, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I am, but you astound me. But then language is a bit like Wikipedia. Nobody's in charge, anybody can edit/add new words. (Edit stupidly/add stupid new words.) Bishonen &#124; talk 20:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC). P.S. "Chiefly British"! Adding insult to injury! Bishonen &#124; talk 20:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC).

Educationist
For the record, while it's a strange word and I have no reason to believe Colin Lamont is one, "educationist" is a real word: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/educationist. We even have a category for it, which surprised the hell out of me: .&mdash;Kww(talk) 21:42, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. See the section above. But OMG I didn't know about the category. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC).

omg I am so tempted to add the category to Bishonen's page. Killer Chihuahua 12:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, do, if you want to experience getting reverted real quick. We are strictly humourless about article categories on userpages. I don't really blame us, but Bishzilla was quite grieved when she wasn't allowed in Category:Prehistoric reptiles. :-( And not in WikiProject Dinosaurs either! The last was me putting my foot down; I knew she'd be in trouble. Poor old girl, though. Do you see her melancholy userbox? Bishonen &#124; talk 13:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I had missed that! That is teh awesomeness. Fer reals. Killer Chihuahua 05:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Re: Colonisation
Hi Bishonen, I state in your recent edit in Culture of Italy and error, because the correct word is Colonization for the article. It is true that in many english-speaking areas, there are differences, such as "center and centre" and different words that signify the same thing, but in this case it does not, because colonization is in both the "British" and "American" spelling, while colonisation is only in the "British english" and the word "colonization" is of more use than "colonisation", and "colonization" is the most used word every time such topic is mentioned, and "colonisation" doesn't even show up in my thesaurus. Words like "colonialism" and "colonist" is an example of proper use of the "s", while other words like the one we are discussing right now the "s" is of little use. I will fix that part again in the article Culture of Italy, and please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Much regards, Slurpy ;) (Slurpy121 (talk) 21:13, 22 February 2013 (UTC))
 * Both Johnbod and I referred to the guideline WP:ENGVAR in the edit summaries where we reverted this persistent but mistaken correction. Please click on the link and read the guideline. P.S., Google finds "colonisation" 9 million times and "colonization" 16 million times: a very natural difference, considering there are more Americans than Brits, and hardly one that suggests the s is "of little use". I've reverted again. Regards, Bishonen &#124; talk 21:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I see the theme. I did read the guidelines, and in fact, "Colonization" is not an american word, It is pure "English" vocabulary. I will make more deep investigations and bring more User experts to the topic. And even if "Colonization" was an american word, it comes to show that most of the readers in the English Wikipedia are either people more familiar with the word "Colonization", and it is best to use the most used "(and correct)" word that implies and suits better to the article. I will restore the word again and since the word is more popular among the people, I will bring experts to the situation. I only want to make the best of using in that article the best of good word. And the "s" is of little use in that word as you can see in most websites, books and Wikipedia articles. I will also post this in the talk page of the article. Regards.(Slurpy121 (talk) 21:54, 22 February 2013 (UTC))
 * You call it a "topic" and a "situation"? That seems rather grand for the "z" versus "s", uh... issue, especially in an article that has so many more serious problems. I hope you get some feedback on the article talkpage and are able to have an interesting conversation about it, but I don't think I'll be part of that conversation. I feel I've already spent enough time on it. Good luck, Slurpy, happy editing. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I didn't want you to take it that way, but if you insist. By the way, The article is fine, except for some minor errors. Good Luck. (Slurpy121 (talk) 22:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC))


 * I like how "...and please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong" actually means "...and please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I will of course revert you immediately". --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:24, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The user is new and means well, I think, but s/he may not be aware of the policies against edit warring. I've put a warning on their page. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:30, 22 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Thank you for your note Bishonen. I saw your note in my talk page. I will be more cautious on that, but the word just doesn't seem to fit the article. I do not want to edit war, but the word just doesn't seem right. Anyways, Thank you for listening. (Slurpy121 (talk) 22:35, 22 February 2013 (UTC))


 * (e/c) Perhaps that's all it is, Bish; you're usually more gracious and forgiving than I am. But when I'm new to a situation, I usually listen when someone who's been around a while tells me I'm wrong. I see elsewhere he's accusing Johnbod of being a vandal sorry, he's more discrete than that; he "just wants to be on the safe side that the user is not vandalizing the page. And of course, the all time favorite, "I do not want to edit war", while simultaneously edit warring. Classic. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:41, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, those spellings favoured by wild colonial boys. Despited being designed in the U.S., my computer takes umbrage at colonization and keeps trying to convert it to the more conventional colonisation. However, it is my understanding that Oxford, not content with educating the current bunch of toffs running the government, encourages these odd spellings which are little used in the more civilised parts of the country. . dave souza, talk 22:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hehe, nice one, Dave. Flöckenbeem, don't tell me you care about spelling wårs? Bishonen &#124; talk 22:47, 22 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I saw your note in David Levy's talk page, much regards. And thank you Floquenbeam but I'm not a hypocrite, and if what dave souza says is true, I will revert my edit to "Colonisation". I just don't understand, If "Colonization" is the right word and the most used one, then how is "Colonisation" not considered correct? and believe me, I've been to Britain and know their use of words. (Slurpy121 (talk) 22:57, 22 February 2013 (UTC))


 * Hi Bishonen, are you sure that "Colonisation is the correct word? so I can change it back if you want(Slurpy121 (talk) 03:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC))
 * Colonisation is a correct word and so is colonization. Neither of them is the correct word. Colonisation is the primary correct spelling in British English. I was going by Johnbod, a very experienced editor, in changing back to his British version. However, doing a search through the article for the endings -ise and -ize just now, I see that both are there, but -ize is by far more common. See my last couple of edits. I don't believe in standardising an article on British English just because the subject is European (but I know there are people who do), so I reverted myself. Leave your spelling, bring it up on Talk, and see what Johnbod says. I definitely think you should be guided by him, he knows much more about Wikipedia than you do yet. I won't chip in on Talk, but feel free to link to this post of mine if you like. This is how to link to it: . If you copypaste that, it'll show up as a small clickable link in your post. Bishonen &#124; talk. 11:20, 23 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Inevitably, there's an article on Oxford spelling which explainz the uzage of such spellingz in the UK. Basically, British English has diverged away from "-ize" even though in academic terms both spellings are sometimes ok, but not always: see analyse. Hence the habits of my computer spellchecker. For furthur details see Manual of Style/Spelling/Words ending with "-ise" or "-ize". . dave souza, talk 12:51, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oczford, huh? Thanks, Dave. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC).
 * With all the English one sees and hears, it is a bit difficult to be consistent unless one has been speaking the language since childhood, but I usually use Oxford spelling, as it is what I find in the dictionaries I happen to own. The Concise Oxford Dictionary and the Swedish-English dictionaries I usually consult all use it. And someone has to stand up for poor, oppressed and near-extinct spelling variations. --Hegvald (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, UK English is that traditionally taught in Swedish schools. Though I admit I'm bi-spellual or Mid-Atlantic myself, from a constitutional inability to take much of an interest in ortography. I do try to write color to an American and colour to a limey, as a delicate attention — tala med bönder på bönders vis, och med lärde män på latin — but I only fitfully aspire to consistency. (Anybody who posts a reply containing the word "hobgoblin" at this point will be banned from my page.) Bäst regards to you, Hegvåld. Bischånen, 00:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I too fupport the ufe of opprefsed and near-extinct fpelling variations. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Flåckenbim, you remind me of the "bugger all thif for a lark" bible in… in what work of fiction? Good Omens, was it? Believe it or not, Google doesn't know, so who should I ask but the high fantasy character on the block. Bischånen, 00:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC).
 * You mean "Buggre Alle this for a Larke I amme sick to mye Hart of typefettinge"? Yep, Good Omens. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll swear on a stack of genuine and rare Bugger-all-thif bibles that it was "thif"! (Corrupted from the long s.) I'll admit the typefetting rings true. Perpetrated by a typesetter who lost his mind from the boredom of the job. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC).


 * Thank you Bishonen and dave souza :) (Slurpy121 (talk) 19:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC))

Lost images
Before my long holiday I uploaded a series of 3D plans of Mentmore Towers all in glorious techniclour (the one there now is one my earlier and more naive efforts); now I can't find them. How do I find out if am image has been deleted if I don't now it's name? You or somebody here will know how to find them because I can't, and i want to finish the page off, I can't stand looking at it any more - it's a mess and need a vast re-write and improvement. They were all on my old computer and then went crunch ages ago. Please help.  Giano  09:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Try scrolling through your file contributions - I can't think of any other way. Killer Chihuahua 09:45, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * But the one in the article ("more naive effort") isn't on that list, because it was uploaded by Giano II! He did lots of uploads. So did this guy and that's where they are. My god, I didn't even know I was this brilliant! Bishonen &#124; talk 10:47, 23 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Oh you are clever: here it is File:Mentmore from Southwest.jpg; now all I have to fo is find the others.  Giano   11:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes! I am prodigiously clever! But most of the credit goes to Puppy, because it never would have occurred to me to look only in the relevant namespace. That option has merely stared me in the face the ten million times I've clicked on somebody's contributions, so naturally I never noticed it. Bishonen &#124; talk 13:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Thanks! Glad I could be of some little help; insomnia is not always bad. :-) Killer Chihuahua 05:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have found all the images now - not sure if I like them, but they'll have to do as I can't be arsed to re-draw them all again - and they're better than what's there already. Just doing another re-write at the moment - what do you think of a house that's described as "As resembling a huge bulk, newly arrived from another planet" how cool is that? If any fool dares to try an info box on it; I shall insist its extraterrestrial properties are listed.  Giano   16:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Who or when was Jackson-Stopps, and what makes you think that the planet wasn't astrological? It's in your starz, . . dave souza, talk 17:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I really can't believe you've asked that question Dave; everyone knows who Gervase Jackson-Stops is. He was a great friend and confidante of my esteemed and noble aunt - in fact, she was the great passion of his life - the only woman he ever looked at.  Giano   17:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Absolutely right. Only her and Bishzilla.  darwin bish  BITE 18:42, 23 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Oh that explains it; I hadn't realised that he had met Bishzilla - I often wondered what had changed him and caused him to emerge from the closet. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 18:47, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, hadn't heard of him but the link is informative. Chap was rather after my time of tootling around National Trust statelie homes, and the poor fellow didn't last terribly long, despite qualifying after me. Obviously Jackson-Stopps, p.118 needs some clarification, trust that's in hand. . . dave souza, talk 19:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Which reminds me of my tutor on the topic, Colin McWilliam, did milady Catherine ever meet him? . . dave souza, talk 19:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh how remarkable; you must be even older than poor Mrs Bishonen, and not many people can say that. No, I have never met Mr McWilliam, gillies aside, one tends not to meet Scots - apart from a most interesting man (who had lost in his kilt) who I met in a Trafalgar Square fountain on New years's Eve 1929. What a lion he was. Putting him aside, I no longer care for the Scots, all this wanting independence from the UK - cast them adrift I say, and rebuild Hadrian's wall to keep them in. Then, no doubt we would have that interfering Hilary Clinton (extraordinary hairstyle) telling us to be nicer to them because half of America claims to be related to one or other of them - total poppycock! If Americans were related to Irish and Scots, they wouldn't all be called Randy, Rusty and Charlene and have Germanic, Jewish and African surnames. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Kennedys were not really called Winkelmuller and just changed it as a political ploy. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 21:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear Lady Catherine, you're some 63% wrong on the basis of an amusing poll in Sir George Gilbert Scott's splendid edifice: so nice to see riveted steel beams and cast iron columns in a Gothic building. Of course Hadrian's Wall as a border would include those Scots who're generally thought of as Geordies and Cumbrians. As for the SNP, they're in rather a fankle as they worship separatism but still want to keep our dear sovereign (dear as in costly) and so if they get their wicked way we'd still be part of the UK. Unless, of course, Her Majesty chooses to disunite them and banish them to the Commonwealth: where will it end? . . dave souza, talk 22:57, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fankle? [Bischånen learns a new word every day.] Bishonen &#124; talk 01:03, 24 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Scottish English, perhaps not much used outwith Scotland.. dave souza, talk 16:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's in Wiktionary, which considers the verb to be "English" but the noun Scottish. Anyway, good new word to learn! Bishonen &#124; talk 16:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I wasn't aware that Scottish English was distinct from Scots, which is counted as its own language insofar as it has has its very own Wikipedia (despite Scots's lack, at this particular point in time, of an army and navy of its own). And apparently it is a matter opinion whether it is or not. Perhaps I should have written Thomas Erskine, 9th Earl of Kellie in Scottish English, as a more ethnically appropriate variety of the language. But alas, I have no idea how to do that. Will someone else give it a go? --Hegvald (talk) 04:42, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * An article for almost everything! I wasn't aware of that "army and navy" article, interesting that thon Yiddish still hasnae national status, though it has a wiki and is not to be confused with Ebreu or indeed Irn-Bru. I think the distinction is that modern street Scots is seen as a dialect of English rather than as a worthy descendant of the Scots language of the makars. Unfortunately the Scots wiki doesn't seem to have a page for Mr. Erskine, and modifying the en:wiki article might not be appreciated. Despite our best efforts to include Scotticisms in appropriate en:wiki articles, they tend to get resisted if other English speakers find them hard to follow. However someone has helpfully produced a List of English words of Scots origin, at least one of which hasn't yet got an article of its own. Perhaps not surprising. Anyway, as our article helpfully notes, I didn't mean to cause a stooshie :-) . . dave souza, talk 19:25, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

About my cryptic WP:AN/I comment
Bish, "respect my authoritah!" was an early internet meme back when South Park was still only a few seasons old. Eric Cartman peddled his tricycle around and yelled out "respect my authoritah!" in one episode. I can't remember the details. And I've spent most of my on-wiki time last night and this night (in upside-down land time) trying to find the mysterious "Camponotus sp.6", an ant species found only on the largest island of the Senkaku Islands. And the only person I like poking fun at more than myself is... everyone else in the world. Peter aka --Shirt58 (talk) 14:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's linked in my edit notice ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes? I was aware of the meme, since I frequent this place where it's often used (plus you even linked to it). That wasn't what I wondered about. Your comment certainly read like sarcasm directed at the people who wanted to get the user to sign their posts. I don't understand why you'd want to post such sarcasm, and now I don't understand how the rest of the world comes into it either. But it's hardly worth any more pixels. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:31, 24 February 2013 (UTC).

User: Talk page content removals??
Can you remove conversations or hide them from your talk page? I'm asking this to make sure to follow orders. Thank you :) (Slurpy121 (talk) 00:05, 25 February 2013 (UTC))
 * Yes, you're free to remove conversations from your own talkpage. Single posts, too — you're free to remove anything from your talk at any time, with a few rare exceptions which are unlikely to concern you. You can either just blank them out, or create an archive page to put them on, whichever you prefer. What you must not do is change other people's posts, such as for instance remove only parts of them. But I'm sure that wasn't what you were thinking of doing. Bishonen &#124; talk 01:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC).
 * I can happily say that that was not what I was thinking of doing :) And by the way, in your opinion, do you think the Renaissance had something to do with the Reformation? (Slurpy121 (talk) 01:11, 25 February 2013 (UTC))
 * LOL, what's that, your homework? I expect bits of the Renaissance helped get the Reformation going. Did you read the articles you've linked to? Questions like that aren't so much for admins, who're very ignorant, but for the Reference desk, which (collectively) knows everything. This section would be the right one, though I'm afraid they, too, will most likely tell you to do your own research. "We don't do your homework for you, though we’ll help you past the stuck point" is what they say on the page, so you may want to narrow your question down a little. Incidentally, I guess you don't know how to code posts in a "thread"? It's very simple — if you look at this thread in edit mode, you'll see how I've made it "stepped" by using colons. Easier to read that way. Bishonen &#124; talk 11:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Lol, I know for a fact that the Renaissance had an impact in the Reformation, I'm just asking because user RoyBurtonson has been reverting my edits and keeps using the same excuse to keep reverting it. I explained to him that the Reformation has Something to do with the article, not only that but he refuses to listen to reason. He seems to be a bit of an amateur (I'm not a judger) and just reverts without consensus if I must say. I was hoping you would try to talk to him, but I rather not bother you since I think you already had enough of me in the "S&Z" situation. Cheers. (Slurpy121 (talk) 23:32, 25 February 2013 (UTC))
 * I have replied on your page. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Thank You for your message Bishonen. I really appreciate of you helping me out. I understand, so I added a source in the page. And I apologize for the way I spoke out to that user. The reason I bursted out like that is because I noticed that the user was acting in an immature manner in other pages as you can see in the previous meesages in his talk page, and suddenly out of no where began to think of himself as a page arbitrator and started to interfere in my editing. Since I now added a source, there is no need for him to act like that anymore. I again Apologize for my outburst and will try to keep things in peace. Regards. (Slurpy121 (talk) 06:07, 26 February 2013 (UTC))
 * Thank you, I'm glad you understand. But surely you're apologizing to the wrong person. I'm not telling you you have to apologize to RB, that's up to you, but your post here seems a little misdirected. (I realize I've told you not to post on RB's page again, but presumably he wouldn't object to a final post in the form of a polite apology if you're in the mood for it.) How about those colons to format posts in a thread, then? If you find it confusing, please see WP:THREAD. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC).

My perfect record is ended
I took your advice... the ANI was just getting more toxic and battle-groundy. This is the first RFAR I've ever filed. I was trying to never file one. :-( Killer Chihuahua  06:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's a rite of passage, you'll enjoy it. Something like a debutante ball. Or, well, you won't actually enjoy it, but you'll emerge all linked to the community, and the community will be all the more linked to the broader and more potent spiritual world for it. ("Broader"? Wut? I think I'll have to edit that bit.) I filed against an admin who was supposedly up for recall but turned up to not really be way long ago, and I never looked back. Ascended by degrees to filing against Olympus, and now I'm resting on my laurels. I'm sure you'll have a long and happy run at RFAR, too! Bishonen &#124; talk 10:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC).
 * It's probably "broader" because it's old. The spiritual world is very old. And you know how people's butts tend to get broader as they age? Well, there you go. Broader. Killer Chihuahua 13:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I seem to recollect a certain creature that filed a case in defense of the puny MONGO. The main argument was, "ROAR"...which was most convincing!--MONGO 14:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, didn't 'Zilla run for Arb once? Or is that just my wishful thinking? Killer Chihuahua 15:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that is true...I was thinking of creating an arbcom "Chief Justice" position for Bishzilla. The community would simply have to accept it...OR ELSE!--MONGO 15:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * to the Puppy: Yes, see here, here, and here. Tex (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * (Aha, e/c with little manager! Heh! Hello Tex!) Of course she ran for arb. Proud moment! Too much like work though, forced to withdraw. Too much stress. [Bishzilla is fond of attention, but not of work.] ROARR in defence of puny MONGO was in an RFC, actually. Garnered many endorsements! :-)   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    16:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Bishzilla! Oh, of course it was the Rfc where ROARR was the only comment provided. At an arbcom case, there were numerous arguments and some modestly-loud, but not deafening, ROARR-ing. Puny MONGO make more effort to be precise next time.--MONGO 20:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * 'Zilla reluctantly admit there were some other comments. But only puny ones! [Checks out the old RFC. Laughs her earth-shaking laugh.] Hohoho, see little KillerChihuahua endorse roar! :-) Why not post own section with comment "Yap yap" in RFC, little deathdog? Try that in new RFAR!   bishzilla     ROA R R! !    20:33, 25 February 2013 (UTC).

You could be of use!
Dear Madam,

I am commanded by Lady Catherine de Burgh, in her capacity as First Lady of Wikipedia, to approach you (although I'm sure I could manage it on my own) in order to determine how recognise 'Admins'. Her Ladyship has been told (I can't imagine by whom) that there is a method of turning Admins blue; Her Ladyship wishes to apply this method to her account, as she wishes to be a able to spot Admins a mile off. Her Ladyship feels that you or one of your friends will know how to bring this about.

Lady Catherine is currently in Italia, where her diplomatic skills are being sought to bring about a resolution to the unfortunate crisis. While her nephew is very unhappy with the result of the recent elections, Lady Catherine feels that poor Signor Berlusconi is a very misunderstood man and in need of her guidance and skills for political survival; consequently, she will be passing any payment that she receives for those skills on to the Wikipedia Foundation, via her Cayman Island account.

Until her return, Her Ladyship wishes you all a bunga bunga.

Yours faithfully: Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 19:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe it's Amalthea's user highlighter script; just copy and paste  into your common.js page. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For my part I thought Lady C was the clever person who knew about this; I never did. Anyway, I'm a little surprised she wants the feature. I tried it out and it's predictably detestable-looking. Covers admins with a violent turquoise colour, snort. Very in-your-face. It even highlights my words higher up on the page, "an admin who was supposedly up for recall but turned up to not really be" — undoubtedly because the phrase is pipe-linked to the username of an admin, yes, yes — but it just looks silly! Turquoising my deathless prose! Anyway, I wonder if some clever coder HINT HINT TO ALL SUCH wouldn't like to provide a variant for those of us who have a proper awe of adminship? Say, providing a discreet royal crown above admin signatures? Or kind of Christmas lights festively encircling the sigs of those superior users? [Tries to think of something even more ornamental for arbitrators, bureaucrats, checkusers… Is seized with vertigo at the thought of appropriate highlighting for Jimbo.]. But perhaps Amalthea's script already provides for special treatment of those with even more advanced permissions? I'll try it out: User:Newyorkbrad. No, preview shows that's merely turquoise, too. Disappointing.


 * P.S., in honour of Lady C, I have in all modesty copyedited the Italian general election, 2013 article a little. Of course Lady C herself could add far more valuable material; I only hope she finds the time. Bishonen &#124; talk 20:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC).

would give you a color you like. Perhaps something at:, or mix your own at http://www.color-hex.com/. — Ched : ?  20:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC) (I'd be happy to copy/paste/edit the code to somewhere for you if you'd like - always a great joy to please the honorable 'Zilla.) — Ched :  ?  20:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A quick look has me guessing that a change to this line:
 * n.style.backgroundColor="#00FFFF";


 * Hehe, pink admins! But I suspect Bishzilla is against the whole idea. She was an admin once, very proudly. Sad to get reminded that she no longer is! Though of course putting the script only into my monobook.js wouldn't affect what she sees... hmm. Ok, maybe I'll turn 'em pink. Bishonen &#124; talk 21:11, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Actually, you don't have to modify the code, it can just be done in CSS. Copy and paste undefined into your css file, and it'll put a crown (the same one I use in my signature) next to the links that would normally be highlighted. If you just want to change the color, just paste the first line in and change "transparent" to whatever you want; there's a list of preset colors at this site, or you can use the hex codes from Ched's page. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:22, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Writ Keeper, the admin crown idea sounded so fantastic I tried it immediately; but it don't work. :-( Bishonen &#124; talk 23:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Sorry, I should've clarified: you also need the "importScript" bit, too; it requires both. If you put the importScript line back in your monobook.js page, it should start working. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 23:24, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No... maybe a few slashes like in the Ohconfucius script? But I don't suppose there's much point in me experimentally adding stuff at random. Feel free to overreach. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:37, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Try that. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 23:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I got to mess with both monobook and common? Never mind, it's all a conspiracy. Anyway, it's very, very beautiful to see all the royal admins now. I suppose you realize that I currently see altogether three crowns in and around your own sig? :-) Magnificent. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * Well in the absence of my aunt (who is currently taking cocktails and advising at the Palazzo del Quirinale, I tried to make admins highlighted, as recomended above, and it doesn't work . There must be another method because I too like to see who they are.  Giano   21:24, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and fixed it for you; sorry if that's overreaching! :P Javascript, like all computer languages, is pretty finicky about syntax; you were just missing a few characters. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not at all that's lovely - thank you; i too can now spot'em a mile off.  Giano   21:33, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * x "grrr - a few" Pink huh? ... hmmm - well that color has certainly caught on in the past.  <said cautiously and with utter respect to a very noble cause>.  re: "Bits for Bish" .. (aka - Bishzilla as admin), I would certainly trust multiple bits for the Bish family; knowing full well that there is an unspoken truth to the idea that all Bish family edits are monitored by a higher power that demands honesty and integrity.  Although, an ankle-biter would perhaps give one pause. :-) — Ched :  ?  21:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly, the anklebiter is the only bish who really, really wants admin. As has been pointed out a few times, it's only the totally unsuitable that really desire power. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * For those dislike admin names in bright colors, consider User:Splarka/sysopdectector.js, which only adds text to the page. If you include this Javascript, you can go to the person's user page or user talk and you'll see all their rights neatly printed across the top of the page, in the same font as the page title. For example, when you are viewing Bishonen's talk it displays "User talk:Bishonen [sysop,*,user,autoconfirmed]". The script handles bureaucrats and oversighters as well as funny new user rights whenever they are created. However it will not add little crowns, as proposed above. EdJohnston (talk) 21:42, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah... but if you're gonna lumber off to one of the person's userpages, you might as well have this on a hot button, don't you think? That's what I do. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * If you've got Popups installed, hovering over a link to a user page or a talk page will list all the user rights for that person. And their number of edits and date of creating the account too. If I hover over Bish's signature, the popup says "sysop, 27977 edits since: 2004-07-10". I use it to decide who to block in a content dispute; user rights are used to determine who is "right" and who is "wrong", and in case of a tie, I use number of edits or date of signing up to break the tie and decide whose edits to reinstate, and who to indef block. Doesn't identify Arbs, tho. But I usually block them on general principles anyway.--Floquenbeam (talk) 23:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I used to have popups, but they drove me frantic with all the unwanted popping up. 2004-07-10, eh? Maybe soon the Foundation is going to have to admit that I must be over 18, without insisting on that "identifying" crap. Perhaps if I run for arb in 2018? Bishonen &#124; talk 23:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC).
 * No, I think it's better if they look radio-active at every sighting.  Giano   21:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, it has suddenly worked - Bishonen has become all turquoise.  Giano   21:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * There you go. Now perhaps I'll get a little more respect. Bishonen &#124; talk 00:09, 27 February 2013 (UTC).


 * Giano can I extrapolate from that comment (21:52) something like .... "admin = toxic"? — Ched : ?  00:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I would advise extreme cation in 'extrapolating' anything! In a man of you age, extrapolation can be very dangerous and should have been grown out of years ago. Disgusting and filthy habit! Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 08:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

WR link
, posted by Mathsci fairly high in thread. NE Ent 19:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Bishonen at the peak of her insanity, 20:19, 1 March 2013 (UTC).
 * Oh WR - yippee; I thought it had packed up and been vanquished to the depths of Idaho or Colorado or somewhere equally dull and obscure. It's back - I must go and log in and see what's going on there.  Giano   20:29, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, it seems not a lot - just the usual moaners. I liked that serial about the Arbcom leaks - that was good; I wish we could have a few more instalments of those from the 'Julian Assange' of Wikipedia - was it ever proved who s/he was?  Giano   20:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Bishonen
Hi Bishonen, I really appreciate that you had time to talk to me, and you are unique among administrators, I say that because I know in many wikis, they just block instead of sending a message or at least a warning. I appreciate that you were concerned with the edits that I did and I would just like to say Thank You :) (Slurpy121 (talk) 04:41, 2 March 2013 (UTC))
 * [Feels head swelling.]. Thank you, Slurpy, how nice of you! Bishonen &#124; talk 10:36, 2 March 2013 (UTC).

Not rope
Would User:NE_Ent/Unblocks_are_cheap be a Bish-approved replacement for rope? (Feel free to edit). NE Ent 16:19, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I like that a lot. Useful! Linking to Editors have pride is very nice; it should be better known. One tiny suggestion for your consideration: the article Editors have pride is so pertinent, and so expressively well-named for your purpose, that I kind of wish there was a visible link to it — not just the piped link, which I feel in my bones few readers will bother to click on. Like, you know, something like:


 * Demands for apologies and groveling are counterproductive; Editors have pride, and demeaning editors or demanding contrition or penance doesn't benefit the encyclopedia.


 * Or simply a "See also" link. Anyway, I'm not sure if you're aware how much I agree with you about the hateful practice of making people eat humble pie as an unblock condition, and have done for a long time. See for instance these posts ("Leave people some dignity") from 2008, in a thread which I recently had occasion to look up. Bishonen &#124; talk 17:34, 2 March 2013 (UTC).
 * In case of interest: here's another collection of prerequisites for an unblock:


 * speak to the community
 * face the music
 * admit his mistakes
 * agree to learn to avoid his previous pitfalls
 * apologize
 * pave the road
 * give his opponents a chance to get their ounce of blood or set conditions for his return
 * "pay"/"own up"
 * address the allegations
 * willing to accept the consequences
 * work to address all of the issues, both content and conduct-related
 * explain Barking Moon's hostility
 * seek redemption
 * face whatever sanctions
 * let people take their pound of flesh
 * let people parade his sins out before the world
 * let people know he is being punished
 * needs to show remorse
 * seek absolution --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Is that all? Seems to be missing a few
 * Pay the piper
 * Reap what they sow
 * Lie in the bed they made NE Ent 21:02, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Those were all in the given case ;) (It was a real case, even if it reads like satire.) The comment then was: "Is that really the kind of community we want to be? Is that really the kind of people we want to be? Or maybe we can trim this list down to things that are actually in line with the way civilised people behave, and are actually relevant to building an encyclopedia." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * taking notes — Ched : ?  21:28, 2 March 2013 (UTC)