User talk:In ictu oculi/Archive 2012

Christophe Le Menu de Saint-Philbert
This is an automated message ..
 * No, it's okay. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Question re Bible translations into Norwegian
Why is Thette higher density Careful testamenth on Danish guidelines effter Latin vdsatthe crossed? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 15:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone started to correct the machine translation then gave up. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Madrigals
Marius van Altena recorded madrigals of composers I had never heard of. I could identify most of them but could not tell from the works mentioned in the Gramophone review if Giovanni Maria Nanino or Giovanni Bernardino Nanino, and I could not read Mosc,aglia? I don't like such lists in general, but thought these people could take an additional link. One is red ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Adding the question: is there a reason why Orlando di Lasso - the spelling version I know and find on a recording - is a redirect, but not in the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, I expect it's because the original French name is more common in English sources, the Italianised name more common in German sources - on his Munich manuscripts for example. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:06, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Understand, but why is that not mentioned in the article? Would you be able to tell from the works mentioned which Nanino? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking further, I found this on es, Huelgas ensemble, looks like a list of members (over the years) to me, I linked a few:

A lo largo de los años, el grupo ha contado con la presencia de numerosos intérpretes, entre los que podemos destacar: What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:14, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Componentes
 * Voces: Katelijne van Laethem (soprano), Carol Schlaikjer (soprano), Marie Claude Vallin (soprano), Nancy Long (soprano), Ingrid Smit Duyzentkunst (soprano), John Dudley (tenor), Otto Rastbichler (tenor), Angus Smith (tenor), Marius van Altena (tenor), Stephan Van Dyck (tenor), Ibo van Ingen (tenor), Eric Mentzel (tenor), Eitan Sorek (tenor), Harry van Berne (tenor), Matthew Vine (tenor), Josep Benet (tenor), Willem Ceuleers (bajo), Kees Jan de Koning (bajo), Lieven de Roo (bajo), Peter Dijkstra (bajo), Stephan MacLeod (bajo), Harry van der Kamp (bajo), Philippe Cantor (bajo), Peter Dijkstra (bajo), Jo Gulinck (bajo), Claudio Cavina (alto), Pascal Bertin (contratenor), Rannveig Sigurdardottir (contratenor), Lieven Termont (barítono), Marius van Altena (barítono)
 * Instrumentistas: Wim Becu (sacabuche), Cas Gevers (sacabuche), Harry Ries (sacabuche), Symen van Mechelen (sacabuche), Willem Bremer (bombarda, corneta), Nils Ferber (shawm, cromorno, bombarda), Christine Frantzen (laúd, vihuela), Marcel Onsia (órgano, sacabuche), Alain Sobczak (shawm, bombarda, cromorno), René Van Laken (rabel, viella, bombarda), Marion Verbruggen (corneta), Howard Weiner (sacabuche) y el propio director Paul Van Nevel (flautas, bombarda, échaquier, órgano)
 * A few of those spellings on the fr/es.wiki need correcting. But probably only those who have solo recording/conducting careers are notable. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:06, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * One more question: the collection Tears of Lisboa has early Fado music, but if I link to Fado it takes a while until something before the 18th century is mentioned,and not precisely so. Is there help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the point of the album was to look for supposed 17th C baroque roots of Fado, but it's more of a contrast exercise by Van Nevel than real "early Fado" :) In ictu oculi (talk) 04:06, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Helps, thank you. Should I drop the many red links (several names would go to sports people ...) or is there more interest in these composers? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, these componentes (Spanish for "members of the ensemble") probably don't require red links, except Claudio Cavina, who is now a notable conductor. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:59, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's distinguish: 1) componentes, I suggest to list those with an article and some you know are notable to the Huelgas article. 2) Portuguese composers, many red, I can't tell how notable they are. 3) Tears of Lisbon: I think what you said above about the character of the collection would also grace the Huelgas article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I didn't think you'd confuse componentes for composers. But where did you find a list of composers/redlinks for the Fado CD? In ictu oculi (talk) 21:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Already there: Maximiano de Sousa (Max), Fernando Tordo, Manuel Mendes (1547-1605)
 * Added: Joaquim Pimentel, José Fontes Rocha, Paulo Valentim (guitarist), Armando Machado, Francisco Viana, if you want to insert in Huelgas discography, go ahead :). No, sorry I don't know which Nanino above. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Looks much more decent in blue. Seems a bit too much for Huelgas, compared to the other recordings, what do you think? I will turn now to Johan van der Meer, do you know sources not in Dutch? I couldn't believe it but he has not even a bio on bach-cantatas, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I changed my mind and added the composers to Huelgas. You created them, they should be used, smile, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

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Defaultsort
fyi... please include the entire name for the DEFAULTSORT value and just not one part of a surname. For example, José Fontes Rocha should be DEFAULTSORT=Fontes Rocha, Jose and not just Fontes. Who knows how many people have Fontes as a surname. Bgwhite (talk) 09:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I've never been in a hurry and I've never made a mistake.*
 * *Claims made are only for the previous 30 seconds before the claim was made. The mistake count before that is too high to be counted.  If the count is unknown, it becomes irrelevant.
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Hoda Saad
I removed the following ref from the page:
 * Aufait Maroc - 15 Dec 2011 "Radio Plus souffle sa première bougie" "..en présence des stars de la chanson et du cinéma marocain: Hatim Idar, Houda Saad, Lamiaa Zaidi, Asmaa Lazrak, Siham Assif.."

I was unable to find it in the December 15 edition of Aufait Maroc. The only search results for "Radio Plus souffle sa première bougie" were to the wikipedia page and a facebook page for a media marketing company. Bgwhite (talk) 08:57, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

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James Chaloner
Do you have a source for this addition? -- PBS (talk) 04:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

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For real?
Is this Epistle to the Laodiceans for real of a fake page? Seems fake to me.... History2007 (talk) 18:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well it's a pseudepigraphic text yes. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Pedro Antonio Avondano
please see the articles Pedro Antonio Avondano and António Pedro Avondano. thanks --frinck (talk) 20:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, fixed In ictu oculi (talk) 15:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Saint Thomas Christian page bullying
Dear In ictu oculi,

There is again vandalism and bullying going on at the page Saint Thomas Christians. Editors are coming together with an agenda against Syriac traditions of the Malabar Nasrani people and questioning even the most mundane facts. This has gone to absurd extent of stating that the term for the Syriac community 'Mar Thoma Nasrani' may be a derivative of english term 'Saint Thomas Christian'. Besides being absurd and revealing their agenda, most references clearly and logically explains how 'Saint Thomas Christian' is a derivative or translation of the syriac term 'Mar Thoma (Saint Thomas) Nasrani'. Nasrani is an ancient Hebrew Syriac-Aramaic term coined much before Modern English evolved through the works of Chaucer and others. I have left other comments regarding this bullying on the talk page of the article Saint Thomas Christians. But there is nothing I can do when administrators abuse their power with an agenda. Please look into it. The article was renamed as 'Saint Thomas Christians' instead of 'Mar Thoma Nasrani' and now they state that the Syriac term could be a derivative of the english term. It is like saying the term 'Deutschland' is a derivative of 'Germany'. One does not need references to know this is nothing but BULLYING. This kind of bullying was anticipated when the agenda was clearly set for the renaming and merging of the page Syrian Malabar Nasrani. The editors are bullying others apparently working in concert though there is no way to ascertain it, though one may clearly feel so by the nature of their work in tandem. Your help is requested to stop this bullying. thanks Robin klein (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Robin, I'll look, but actually I would expect WP:RS to support the change you oppose above. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 15:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar
Just noticed the barnstar you awarded to me earlier this evening for the Arius article situation. My word, I'd almost forgotten all about that! It was a long time ago, and an experience I've definitely tried to learn from, and to have someone come along after all this time and say what you did is something I really deeply appreciate. Major kudos to you, and my sincerest, deepest thanks!!! - Ecjmartin (talk) 03:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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Input on Saint Thomas Christians
In ictu oculi, your input would be greatly appreciated here.--Cúchullain t/ c 17:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Jacob Palaeologus
delighted to see someone work on this article. ‎In ictu oculi (talk) 04:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

there is a very useful biographical essay in the Introduction to the 1994 edition of the Disputatio Scholastica TomHennell (talk) 10:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Proceeds in excellent fashion, I don't intend to fiddle around the edges while you are working on it. But just a small request - in the case of a sentence like e.g. "In effect they were retaining much of the form of trinitarian worship, while re-interpreting it in anti-trinitarian terms." - is that Palaeologus' view or is that George Huntston Williams' view? Important distinction with WP:PSTS. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:11, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I think the reference is actually to comment on Socinianism from MacCulloch or Cameron, I will try to track it down and cite it. Any other such sentances that need citations, please alert me. Otherwise, I think it has gone as far as I can take it; futher improvement might be more a matter of subtraction rather than addtion, and others may be better at doing it. TomHennell (talk) 14:24, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

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Renaming templates
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Simulated cannibalism
I note your objection to the correct comparison of communion to a simulated cannibalism ritual, however, it is a quite accurate description of the custom. Some like to talk around this obvious point with meaningless semantical 'distinctions', such as this claim from the catholic.com web forum: "The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are contained truly, really, and substantially in the Eucharist. They are not present materially..." However, the basic fact is that the ritual is symbolic of cannibalism, and the scriptures are quite clear about the ritual being an allegory for cannibalism. John 6:48-66; Mark 14:22-24; Matthew 26:26-28; Luke 22:19-20. In the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, the bread and wine are interpreted as literally becoming Jesus' flesh and blood. Don't shoot the messenger.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 12:48, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I remain of the view that that isn't an appropriate view/comment. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:03, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Precious

 * Now thank you for Simeon, I linked him a few times, also Anna, please check, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:47, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Passion: He was despised --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

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Category deleted but came back under another name?
Cheers! -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:05, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Joe407 (talk) 06:02, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

A challenge
Hey In ictu oculi, I have a query that you might be interested in as well: please see User_talk:John_Carter. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 03:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Q Source Nonsense
Hello there, Just wanted to point out the similarities between book 7 of the Ginza Rba and the Sermon on the Mount, Beattitudes and Lord's Prayer. Might help make some sense of it. Nasorean (talk) 10:10, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Joseph Michel


A tag has been placed on Joseph Michel requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

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Talk:Dispute about Jesus' execution method
I note the likelihood that your inclusion of the 'cannibalism' thing at the section at the execution article is an oblique way of 'alerting' readers coming from WP:Christianity to an unrelated topic in order to elicit offense. If this is your intention, it is extremely inappropriate. If it is not your intention, there is no need to refer back to the history for the 'benefit' of those readers. Thanks.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 05:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That hadn't occured to me. I reminded you of that for the reason I said, to remind you where offence was elicited in my own case, and I'm sure the Project's editors are quite capable of drawing their own conclusions from your current edits. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If it hadn't occurred to you, there was no reason at all to include the unrelated material at the article Talk page, and the comments have absolutely nothing to do with my comments about article titles suggested by others editors. Additionally, I am under no obligation not to comment at article Talk on the basis that you've arbitrarily decided who is pro- or anti- something, which had nothing to do with my comments either. Adding urelated comments about an editor constitutes a personal attack.
 * If you believe that my comment about communion as a simulated cannibalism ritual (which is by no means some novel concept I've come up with on my own) was inappropriate, there are appropriate ways to deal with the matter. Airing the matter on an unrelated article Talk page is not such an avenue.-- Jeffro 77  (talk) 12:23, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As per previous. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:41, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If you continue to try to focus article Talk on me rather than content, you will be reported.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 12:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As per previous. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:06, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Wednesday Crucifixion
A number of scholars disagree with the Wednesday Crucifixion theory, but nonetheless find it pervasive and compelling enough to address and refute. The Mystery of the Last Supper: Reconstructing the Final Days of Jesus, written by Prof. Colin J. Humphreys of Cambridge University and the Royal Institution in London, recounts and refutes the arguments for Wednesday Crucifixion. Jimmy Aiken of the National Catholic Register also takes time to refute the Wednesday Crucifixion theory here, noting that "some Protestant churches, especially Fundamentalist ones" subscribe to the theory. Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ by H. W. Hoehner also discusses this at length. Other sources from books which advance the theory include Wednesday Crucifixion by Rev. George L. Miller and this older doctoral dissertation by Jeremiah Knigh Aldrich, altough neither of these two authors are professors. Taken together, the Wednesday Crucifixion position is certainly a minority one but I included it because of its pervasiveness in the scholarly discussion of crucifixion dates.--YHoshua (talk) 05:41, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, no problem, as I said all anyone asks for is sources, and I would say the above indicates some notability for the Chronology of Jesus article, but you might want to also drop a note on the Talk there at the same time as adding material. And distinguish Wednesday and Thursday material. All the best. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Roman timekeeping system
Nice article you've started. A couple of comments:

1) The Roman day began at midnight long before the Julian reform. See Censorinus XII and particularly note 109.  Censorinus also gives information about the introduction of sundials to Rome in the same chapter.

2) Some of your quotes are truncated at some arbitrary point -- see notes 4, 5, 9.

--Chris Bennett (talk) 00:23, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

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Benefits of talk page templates
I assume you know of WP:ALERTS; have you seen this application? Fun stuff :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 22:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Another User:Oculi
Hi I. I. Oculi!

Maybe both you and User:Oculi should have a note about one another on your user pages?

(The kitten is doing well! Thanks again!)

Cheers, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 12:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar/Minako Hamano
Thanks for the Barnstar! I gather that Minako Hamano's problem is that she does work-for-hire. Her work is considered notable and she has numerous mentions within other Wikipedia articles. The general perception also seems to be that she is notable; the Spanish article appears to be the fourth start. Pkeets (talk) 12:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 19
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Sasa Tuksar/Saša Tuksar
Hi. Thanks for the barnstar, much appreciated. I'd have no objection to you adding that in the lede. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 11:29, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Catholic Church of Catholicism
Their creed:

I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD, Creator of Heaven and earth, And of all things visible and invisible. And in his Spiritual Son, Jesus Christ, Whom was born of Mary and Joseph, Was not consubstantial nor co-eternal with God the Father almighty, Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day His Spirit was resurrected. He ascended into Heaven, And sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty. Whence he shall come again to judge the living and the dead, Of whose Kingdom there shall be no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, The communion of saints, The forgiveness of sins, The resurrection of the Spirit, And life everlasting. Amen.

Does that sound anything at all like Arianism? LOL. It sounds like a mix of Origenism, Adoptionism, Ebionitism, Watchtower doctrine, and the Jesus Seminar, leaning towards Deism. He says at the end, "I believe in the forgiveness of sins" - well, according to the rest of the creed, how is that to be accomplished? Moral Therapeutic Deism? Animal sacrifice? What is the point of Christianity if not that Jesus died for sins? (Paul says as much, that if he didn't die and be resurrected in the body, that the faith is a fool's belief and a waste of time, but they don't hold that high of an opinion of the good Apostle.) In that creed, he's just some crucified dude (yea, aren't we all spiritual sons of God by adoption?). Arius is rolling over in his grave (and yelling "wake up!" at Pelagius, while grabbing Charles Taze Russell in one hand and Paul Tillich in the other, with Origen telling them all to pipe down)! I feel like posting this on the Christianity or Theology board, as I have never seen something quite so theologically confused. St John Chrysostom ΔόξατωΘεώ 13:15, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Or grammatically incorrect.

Guilherme Clezar
Hey, yeah thanks. I still think it should be moved but it's not worth it. ;) Kante4 (talk) 13:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Full names in leads
In and identical edits to 6 other talk pages, you refer to a guideline saying "the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known." But you never say what you think should be changed in the 7 articles. Is your concern that a common English form of the name is given first and in bold? "full name" in WP:Manual_of_Style/Biographies means to include often omitted parts of the name like a middle name. "full name" does not mean the name in the native language of the subject. For that, see Manual of Style/Lead section. The name of the native language should not be italicised but apart from that the leads look OK to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi PrimeHunter. The example given is
 * Chernivtsi Oblast (Ukrainian: Чернівецька область, Chernivets’ka oblast’) is an oblast (province) in western Ukraine, bordering on Romania and Moldova. "
 * This uses a non-Latin script, wheras for a Latin script we have examples such as:
 * Valéry Marie René Georges Giscard d'Estaing is a French centre-right politician who was President of the French Republic from 1974 until 1981.
 * I think that's the concern. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I think Fyunck made this change, but as it currently stands, it is incorrect:
 * Aldin Šetkić (born December 21, 1987 in Sarajevo) and known professionally as Aldin Setkic, Yugoslavia)
 * The correct syntax should be:
 * Aldin Setkic (Croatian: Aldin Šetkić; December 21, 1987 in Sarajevo, Yugoslavia)
 * The above doesn't take into account any WP Tennis guidelines, if there are any on this. The "full name" needs to be in the same format as the title.  If the title doesn't use diacritics, the "full name" shouldn't either. Bgwhite (talk) 00:09, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Silly me. I managed to pick the one of seven examples which didn't fit my post. See the other six at . PrimeHunter (talk) 00:22, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, as with most things wiki, the guideline is not straightforward, probably on purpose as no one wants every article to be a cookie cutter of the next article. We need to have the full name in the lead paragraph is about all that's clear. Well that paragraph can be awfully big. I kinda like it in the first sentence myself (if possible) and I'm not opposed to it going first either. You're right in that a full name does not mean his native language name. I had forgotten about that foreign language section but I had been making sure anyway that in articles I create or edit that the common English name was first with the foreign name second in parentheses as is shown at your example at Manual of Style/Lead section. I believe an administrator pointed that out to me awhile back, probably citing the same section, and I've used it ever since. It seemed appropriate for foreign readers to see that right after the English name so I incorporated it in my edits. I'm not happy about a foreign spelled name being thrust into the first words of an article... it just looks wrong for an English language entity such as this. But while I included both the English and foreign names in the opening sentence, IIO has moved the foreign version up front and eliminated the English used Pseudonym completely. So it went from good to poor to non-acceptable in a flash. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have repeatedly linked to the relevant WP MOS guidelines, assuming that they will be opened and the actual examples used considered. I see no need to rehash for my own reading on my own talkpage. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:50, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not practical to have the same discussion on 7 different article talk pages where most people would probably make the same posts like you did when you started the 7 sections. It's better to discuss in one place and post links to the discussion on other pages. If you prefer then we can move it to 1 of the 7 pages or to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis. Let me merely say here that the bolded name in the lead should use the same characters as the article title (see WP:BOLDTITLE) for the parts of the name that are in the title. That also holds for your example Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, and François Mitterrand at Manual of Style/Biographies. If you want the bolded characters changed to use (or not use) diacritics when they currently match the page title then the page should be moved at the same time. Such moves have shown to be controversial per WP:COMMONNAME so they should usually get a requested move discussion. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I noted on those 6 or 7 particular pages for particular reasons which at the time appeared egregious (out of the dozens possible) in the context of the way BLPs of that particular nationality are normally handled, hence the note on the relevant page. WP:BOLDTITLE doesn't include any accented examples, but yes WP:OPENPARA does give an example, François Mitterrand where WP:TITLE and WP:OPENPARA match up. As you say RMs can be controversial, which is why I was going by another experienced editor (Kauffner)'s preference that sometimes Title Francois Mitterand and First Mention François Mitterrand is a suitable compromise. Beyond that the latent issue is really how odd
 * Francois Mitterand (French François Mitterand).... etc.
 * looks in an encyclopedia.In ictu oculi (talk) 03:43, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Request for assistance
The Ebionites article has already been accepted for further review by the Arbitration Committee, although the beginning of the case was stalled in an attempt to try mediation. I regret to say that, given the complications from a serious head-injury a few years back and the generally slight chance of recurring seizures as a result of same, at this point it is not necessarily in my own interests to spend much concentrated time on subjects which cause significant emotional responses and accompanying elevated neuromuscular tension to me. I have elsewhere indicated my disgust with certain other regular editors regarding that content, and, unfortnately, at this time, view it as probably being the only discussion here which might be counterproductive to my own health. I was wondering what you might think of, perhaps, assisting me in reviewing the previous discussions, some of which you yourself seem to have been involved in previous discussion, and was wondering what you might think of perhaps assisting in the evidence-collection and preparation stage. John Carter (talk) 00:01, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This is WP:canvassing. Since James Tabor is now an editor on Wikipedia, it should be interesting watching you two clowns tell him to his face that his life's work is WP:Fringe.  Good luck with that.  Ignocrates (talk) 00:08, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ignocrates, in all honesty, both as Ovadyah and Ignocrates I think, you have displayed a remarkably weak grasp of policies and guidelines. It is not canvassing to request assistance in an arbitration. In the past, I myself represented another editor before the ArbCom when that editor for reasons of her own, requested such. And one book is not a man's "life's work," as you allege above. I believe it is completely appropriate to request assistance in preparing a case when there are reasonable health problems which could be exacerbated by doing so. And your own recent edit history reveals that your own prior notifications regarding WP:STALK have perhaps gone perhaps ignored. However, if you believe otherwise, please feel free to post to the appropriate page regarding your allegations of misconduct. This is not that page, however. You remember the one where you accused me of being a sockpuppet of User:John, right? John Carter (talk) 00:22, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi John, Ebionites and various others of these pages are on my watchlist. Probably you should let health take priority and let this kind of behaviour and "scholarship," multiply, the behaviour above pretty well showing how things are going to go. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:30, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Like I said, the case has already been accepted by ArbCom. The question, at this point, seems to be preparing the case. And however much the behavior might "multiply", as you have said it, there may well have to come a time when some sort of action regarding that behavior is taken. John Carter (talk) 00:34, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The only thing "multiplying" in this case is further evidence of your lack of WP:competence. Ignocrates (talk) 01:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry about that dust-up. Sorry that you had to be involved. I have asked for an administrative review of John Carter's fitness as a administrator. This has to end for the good of the encyclopedia. I hope we can get past this and edit together productively again. Ignocrates (talk) 23:54, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean your "you two clowns" comment above? I wasn't that bothered. And I have no objection to John asking for help to keep fringe theories from overweight. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In response to Iggy, that statement is ridiculous. It was not canvassing. Maybe if you made any sort of attempt to actually understand policies and guidelines, you might make more sense. Or is it simply that you do not care about them, if they don't help you to promote your beloved EJC? John Carter (talk) 01:38, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I will repeat what I said above. "This has to end for the good of the encyclopedia."  Please read this statement more slowly this time and reflect on its meaning.  Ignocrates (talk) 02:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Zombie articles
Hi - You recently participated in a move proposal discussion regarding articles about zombies and zombie pop culture archived at Talk:Zombie. That proposal was not approved, and a new discussion is taking place at Talk:Zombie (fictional) that is narrower in scope, and concerns only whether the older Voodoo and newer Romero zombie pop culture should be included in the same article or whether it should be separated. These are articles that receive a lot of hits, and should probably get more input than just the two editors having the current discussion. I'm flagging all old move discussion participants regarding the new discussion, and your input would be appreciated. LaTeeDa (talk) 21:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Please see here
Deletion of REDIRECT Zhirinovsky's ass

Thanks! Mootros (talk) 08:08, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dougweller (talk) 11:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
John Carter (talk) 23:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

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Bible translation pages
I can see that you have created a large number of pages dealing with various translations of the Bible. However, these are mostly incomplete stubs, and would probably better be added to Translations of the Bible with your pages becoming redirects. Wer900 talkessay on the definition of consensus 01:35, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Bible translations into Manx
This is an automated message from MadmanBot. I have performed a search with the contents of Bible translations into Manx, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: Translations of the Bible into Celtic Languages. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally trying to rename an article, please see Help:Moving a page for instructions on how to do this without copying and pasting. If you are trying to move or copy content from one article to a different one, please see Copying within Wikipedia and be sure you have acknowledged the duplication of material in an edit summary to preserve attribution history.

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Proposed deletion of Bible translations into Cambodian


The article Bible translations into Cambodian has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * unreferenced essay, original research

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:16, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Bible Translation into Malayalam
I am delayed to see your call on the page mentioned above. There are some useful infos in that ip edit. I think, We could find some sources. -- AshLey  Msg 12:53, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

WikiThanks
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.7.141 (talk) 23:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

RE:Dénes Lukács
Hello. Apparently he wasn't involved in any battle but was the organizer of artillery production, training of artilleryman and city defense. He was evacuated as the Austrians advanced and this continued until the Hungarian surrender.  Lajbi  Holla @ me  •  CP  13:36, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
He's mentioned you so I thought you should be aware. Dougweller (talk) 20:54, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Your recent edit
You just added: "Individual Bibles should be categorized under "Bible translations by language|Bulgarian" etc." I'm not sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate? Do you mean individual translations? Or capital I, like an Individual known/named Bible (i.e. the Alabama State Bible, George Washington Inaugural Bible)? Editor2020 (talk) 03:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Interwiki
Just a quick note that interwikilinks used in articles have no starting colon. You only use the colon when you specificly want to refer to any page on another project like eg in a talkpage discussion where you might say "But the article at new:articlename says so and so" Agathoclea (talk) 14:07, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

talkback
Hiya speedy! (in reference to "in the blink of an eye" {),

I just wanted to drop a note to you that I left a rather lengthy reply on directed your way on my talk page. I think that I rambled on a little but, but I'm fairly sure that everything is on point so I hope that it's not too difficult to read through. I wasn't sure if if you intended to "sign off" with your last reply (you said "thanks for this answer.", which kinda closes off your reply), and my response is lengthy, so I just wanted to drop a note here. {

Oh, by the way, you should check out User:MiszaBot//Archive HowTo (or User:ClueBot_III) and set up some archiving on this page. It's getting a bit long, so the load time is sort of lengthy. (actually, Help:Archiving a talk page is more generally helpful) Regards, — V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 19:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

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God the Father
There is some current discussion at the talk page of the above named article regarding the amount of weight and sources to give material in the article relating to Oneness Pentecostalism. History2007 indicated that he thinks that you might be somewhat knowledgeable about this subject, and I think your input would be welcome. John Carter (talk) 23:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Counts of Louvain: new move request
Hi Witger, just a courtesy-message to inform you to I have submitted a move request of "Counts of Louvain" to "Counts of Leuven". You can find my reasoning here: Talk:Counts_of_Louvain. Kind regards, Morgengave (talk) 22:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks to you as well for your BLP work. It's nice to see consensus among several editors slowly bear good results. Doremo (talk) 09:37, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

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Smaller balls of fire
Aargh. Too many tabs open.... TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  03:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Diacritics in BLPs discussion
I saw your post at Casliber's talk, but when I followed the link, I found no discussion. Because I edit Spanish-lanugage articles, I'd like to be part of this discussion. Where is it? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 15:01, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * (watching) This perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! (It would be helpful if the notice included a direct link, or if the sub-heading on that page mentioned diacritics :)  I'm in!  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree :) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Ana_Ivanovic
I'm really shocked to see this RM closed as it nearly passed the deadline of a recommended week of discussion. A Facebook page was named the reason for moving, which is the lowpoint of this diacritics debate. Noone was notified about the request (it was carefully omitted from the news section of the front page a WP:TENNIS). Late opposing comments were removed. Was even WT:WikiProject Serbia aware of this at all? Or you?  Lajbi  Holla @ me  •  CP  16:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware of/interested in this tennis names (or any other sports BLP) in Feb 2012. My attention was canvassed by extreme bad behaviour only recently. RMs can be closed before 7 days. The problem with that RM was not notifying Project Serbia for a "high importance" article. Plus the closer being a participant. Anyway, it's only been at odds with the 20 other Ivanović BLPs for a couple of months, and there is an issue with Serbian romanization which means Serbian names are probably best left separately. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:26, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Isaiah 7:14
Would you like to have a look at what I've done with this article and tell me any changes you think are necessary? PiCo (talk) 05:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

categories
Hi Iio, I noticed that you have been adding new categories to Category:People by city or town in the Czech Republic, including duplicates of categories that already exist, but without diacritics. Please check that the category doesn't already exist before making any new categories, as we don't need two categories for exactly the same thing. Thank you. Cloudz 679 16:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Harrasment to consider adminship
As you know, I am persistent, possibly/probably obsessive-compulsive, editor with a habit of never letting go of an idea. that somehow manages to work its way through my rather, uh, One idea which has occurred to me is that you are not currently an administrator. Unless you want to receive regular, rather boring and monotonous, comments, meaningless insults, and craven pleadings to become an administrator, I think it might be in your own interests to respond regarding whether you would find the possibility acceptable. ;) John Carter (talk) 00:14, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think I would pass as an admin primarily because I bumped heads with Jayjg over my attempts to include the Oxford Hebrew and Reuben Alcalay dictionaries as sources at Yeshu in 2010. Not in a bad way but I would expect Jayjg to oppose. Also I would have wild squeals of diacritic-free objection from the WP:TENNISNAMES lobby for attempting to make French tennis players spellings consistent with French presidents. Besides, it's a lot of work and as you say, even more insults. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:20, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've butted heads with Jayjg myself more than once, and he hasn't objected to my continued adminship, even when I recently asked for his review of it to see if I should stay one. Regarding tennis names, I think that is probably a comparatively minor matter. You haven't been blocked even once yet, and that is a major point in your favor. I only became an admin to edit protected templates, and, actually, that's about all I do as an admin. So, if there are any aspects of adminship that might appeal to you, you certainly could indicate in an RfAdmin that at least initially those would be the only things you might involve yourself in. Regarding inclusion of dictionaries, I think that might relate to the extant Judaism MOS. There is now a rough draft of a Manual of Style for Religion in general, and I think it could certainly include many, if not most, of the points in the Judaism MOS, and the NRM MOS (I love abbreviations) in slightly revised form. Right now, I'm trying to finish the tagging for the Christianity articles in the Jones Encyclopedia, but I hope to work on the MOS shortly. In any event, if there are any aspects of adminship that appeal to you, I would be more than happy to sponsor you. I more or less promise the harassment ends here. John Carter (talk) 00:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if nothing else it's a conscience prick that I owe Jayjg an olive branch that I thought to do two months ago but got distracted. Adminship doesn't really appeal to be honest, not sure what areas of it I would do something in. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, do it! PiCo (talk) 13:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :). I've been having fun on Wiki tonight - I decided to llok uyp Love, since it's such a vexatious matter ("Tell me the truth about love!") Surely, I thought, Wiki must have words to say on this, words which will set my heart aflame with understanding. But I think I'l stick to the poets after al. But I did find that someone in all innocence had put a pic of Sacred and Profane Lovge up as an illustration of... what, I wonder? I doubt very much that the someone responsible had any idea of the background to that mawkish masterpiece - so I added a little background, just to set them straight. The Internet rots your brain, did you know that? PiCo (talk) 13:40, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

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Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion
Hello, In ictu oculi. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikiquette assistance regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
 * Thanks Fyunck, but agree with the admin that it belongs on the relevant Talk page. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:04, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Religion Manual of style
We now have a proposed MOS for religious content at WikiProject Religion/Manual of style. I have recently added some material which I basically copied from the extant Judaism and NRM manuals, but think that one of the big problems this MOS might have to face that others might not is how to deal with content, like John the Baptist and some other Biblical figures, which is important to multiple religions, although not necessarily for the same reasons or in the same way. John the Baptist, for instance, is considered the Messiah by the Mandaeans, who see Jesus in a negative light. If you would have any opinions on how to structure guidelines dealing with such content, I think we would all welcome it. John Carter (talk) 23:55, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Diacritics debate
Hello In ictu oculi. There was no need to thank me at all, I just expressed what I considered appropriate at that point. I may have been a bit hard on causa sui, but he was hard on you as well, and I didn´t appreaciate after all his recomendation of you dropping the issue after all the efort you have done, and all of that because of no valid reason for you to drop it. He should either expressed a valid rationale that could be usefull for the discussion, or otherwise simply recomending someone to give up just because he prefers it that way is kind of a non-valid argument.

The throuth is that I appreciated your effort in getting this discussion finished once and for all, and your effort in trying to archive some consensus and guideline for everyone over this issue. Avoiding it, or dropping it as causa sui suggested, will inevitably just further delay the solving of this problem and create further unecesary discussions over this in future. I already participated in a number of this same discussions over the last couple of years, and it was painfull to see each time us going nowhere after great ammount of effort and time that has been dedicated in those discussions by numerous editors. So, at least this time I hoped some result would be archived at the end. Anyway, thank you for your kind words. Best regards, FkpCascais (talk) 00:35, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Messianic Sources
Since you asked, a number of your questions are answered in the Messianic Judaism history section. Specficially: Note 10 (Ariel) says the term 'resurfaced' in Israel in the 1940s and 1950s, leading the casual reader to assume it had existed prior to then. Note 52(also Ariel) explains that in the 1890s "immigrant Jews who had accepted the Christian faith yet contained to retain Jewish rites and customs ... (promoted) the idea that Jewish converts should not abandon their cultural and religious heritage." Note 58 (Cohen-Sherbok)says Rabinowitz was writing blended orders of service in 1865. With note 54, Rausch explains the the Messianic Jewish movement and the Hebrew Christian movement were both operating in 1915. The sources seem to indicate the Messianic movement grew quietly in the US after the 20s, seeking respectability, and continued to operate in other countries (including Russia and Israel); the Hebrew Christian viewpoints took precedence until the 1960s, when Jesus Movement and Jews for Jesus saw a growth of young people not content to sit in HC congregations, and in Note 57, Hocken explains these youth changed the purposes and the name of the HC congregations and started using the name Messianic Judaism.--DeknMike (talk) 04:19, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I saw some of that in the article. I think the editors working on the page have produced a good an informative article (certainly to someone less informed like me). I was just suggesting other avenues for article development which would avoid banging heads. If John Carter has offered help with edits its an offer worth taking. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:02, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

RE:Katalin É. Kiss
No, it's just something like George W. Bush. A middle name. I will dig into it and find out what kind of name is is. It must be Éva I guess, it's quite common in Hungary but I'll make it sure.  Lajbi  Holla @ me  •  CP  11:07, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes you are right, I came to the same conclusion recently I've just forgot to inform you. Her father was also a famous academian but there's no sign of what that É could stand for as initial. And that "É Kiss" is quite exclusively paired together and there's no result for "É Tóth" for example. Strange indeed.  Lajbi  Holla @ me  •  CP  09:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Consistency
As you will be aware I have just placed this onto the the talk page of [[WP:AT]
 * I object to creating WP:MATCHTITLE for the same reasons that Blueboar has given (We already have a linked called WP:NAMINGCRITERIA). I think that your argument about consistency is I think flawed. You give the example of Frédéric Vitoux (writer) and Frederic Vitoux (tennis), but what do those two people share in common other than a nationality and a first name? Arguing that both should have their name spelt "Frédéric" for consistency between articles (and not through usage in reliable sources) is pushing the envelope and a POV.

I was going to follow it up with a second paragraph, but that second paragraph is really an editor to editor message so I have decided to post it here instead: That you want to create a short cut to overemphasise one criteria that you think will help you advance you point of view is a bad idea. There comes a point where passionate argument for a point of view becomes disruptive and I think that if you create this redirect without a clear consensus to do so, when other editors have expressed their opposition, you will have crossed the Rubicon into disruptive behaviour. My opinion of course is just that, but I suspect that others will agree with me. I dislike user RfCs because they are very time consuming and so I have never initiated one, but if you create this link when other have expressed clear objections I may. You have to ask yourself would two other editors second it? -- PBS (talk) 08:45, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully some users who don't have a history in this area will comment. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

AuthorityTam
You've claimed that there is a "2 vs 1 situation" 'against' AuthorityTam. In fact, several editors (including pro-JW editors) indicated at the previous ANI that AuthorityTam's behaviour&mdash;particularly his frequent digs at BlackCab&mdash; are inappropriate. The main problem is regarding AuthorityTam's persistent irrelevant comments about other editors, and it's entirely unclear how requesting that he cease that behaviour would be at all detrimental to his making useful edits to JW articles.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 08:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Just a little uninvited input here. While I don't see every altercation between the three editors, my personal observations have been that there are no innocent victims in this circumstance. I personally have observed the 2 on 1 tag-team behavior that editor in ictu oculi has also noted.  My personal advice would be to break up the tag team and see if that doesn't help to improve the situation. But that will require effort on the part of the two editors in question and I am not sure they will be willing to make such efforts...however, time will tell.  Willietell (talk) 00:08, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Article in your field
I have recently nominated Joses up for merger. A few other editors have objected. It is interesting to check the communications between some, by the way. Anyway, considering that article is more or less in your specialty field, if you could produce evidence that it is notable, or have an opinion on the merger, either would be more than welcome.

And, by the way, I have finished the article list for "Israelite religion" (the Hebrew Bible, basically). It can be found at User:John Carter/Religion articles. I'm going to try to finish the rest of the lists, and then look for and assess all the related articles. John Carter (talk) 00:12, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi John
 * I've had a look and made some edits. I don't think it can be merged as it covers two Joses (even though that was somewhat submerged in the jumble). The actual Desposyni article and some other Cath Enc stubs which appear to have poor sourcing would also need work.
 * I'm having connectivity problems every time I try and reply on your page by the way. Maybe you need to archive it for length like I had to do. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Controversial moves
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to move pages to bad titles contrary to naming conventions or consensus, you may be blocked from editing.

From your recent edit history it is impossible for you to be unaware that these moves would controversial and as you have participated in WP:RM discussions that you are aware of that process.

I have reverted the moves and put them up for a WP:RM. If you make such moves in future then use the WP:RM. If you come across any other editor making moves of articles with accent marks to without--or visa versa--without without discussing it on the talk page first, preferably with a WP:RM request, let me know and I will take the necessary administrative action to rectify the moves.

From you user history recent controversial moves:
 * 02:43, 1 May 2012 m Ondřej Látal ‎ (In ictu oculi moved page Ondrej Latal to Ondřej Látal: [no complex history], per BLP accuracy, sources in article, MOS consistency with other Ondřejs and other Látals)
 * 02:53, 1 May 2012 m Ondřej Martinka ‎ (In ictu oculi moved page Ondrej Martinka to Ondřej Martinka: spelled Ondřej)
 * 02:54, 1 May 2012 m Ondřej Malinský ‎ (In ictu oculi moved page Ondrej Malinsky to Ondřej Malinský: another Ondřej, clean history, sourced, per BLP accuracy)
 * 03:00, 1 May 2012 m Ondřej Šedivý ‎ (In ictu oculi moved page Ondrej Sedivy to Ondřej Šedivý: Another Ondřej, per BLP accuracy, sources confirm family name Šedivý) (top) [rollback]

-- PBS (talk) 08:28, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Philip
 * I clearly understand the strength of your personal feelings re "Is this an English Wikipedia or an international one?" etc. but I wasn't expecting this. To me this is simple good housekeeping, as I potter around WP and see things that will improve sourcing and articles I source and improve - particularly where BLPs are concerned. I don't share your view that a move based on sourced information constitutes "bad titles" nor "contrary to naming conventions." You could have simply reverted, or discussed if you disagreed. You have never contributed to these articles, or anything related. If you want to take a gauge of the barometre try searching [site:http://en.wikipedia.org Ondřej "is a Czech"] you will find 211 articles, mainly BLPs, mainly depending on Chicago-MOS sources or "German for German politicians" MOS guidance where English sources are lacking. But I don't intend to oppose you on this. You can have your way. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:16, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with your perception of my POV (the fact that over the last week you have totally ignored my emphasis on sourced based article titles shows a lack of good faith). This has everything to do with controversial moving of articles. It does not matter which way they are moved from names without accent marks to names with accent marks or vice versa, such moves are controversial and should be made using WP:RM. You wrote "this is simple good housekeeping, as I potter around WP and see things that will improve sourcing and articles I source and improve - particularly where BLPs are concerned", then by all means improve the sources and if you think that that justifies moving the article title to either strip or add accent marks then put in a WP:RM for that article. If you do not then after this warning it is likely to be seen as disruptive. -- PBS (talk) 13:31, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Philip, you're hardly uninvolved. Anyway, I won't be doing anything in this area for a time. You take care. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:39, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Meaning inviting your good self to another RfC on BLPs at least, when I see a badly sourced BLP I will continue to source and improve. But in the present environment it's probably best to leave a badly sourced BLP at an incorrect name. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:52, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention it is completely standard to make these sorts of moves without a request for move. It only goes to request for move if someone objects. The fact that you (PBS) forced all the moves to RfM is far more disruptive than their initial move especially when its fairly clear it will end up being moved anyways. Essentially you just wasted a lot of peoples time. -DJSasso (talk) 18:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd agree that it's timewasting. Now, in what way are accurate titles automatically "bad titles", according to the warning template above? bobrayner (talk) 14:56, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * As DJSasso predicted they were all moved anyway, virtually unanimously and with PBS himself concluding that the rationale for the move was "a perfectly respectable argument that follows guidance" which I take as meaning what it said. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Draeske?
? --Shirt58 (talk) 13:17, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Felix Draeseke, obviously. My mistake. Please apply WP:PISCINEPUGILISM as appropriate.--Shirt58 (talk) 13:37, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, you sure you wouldn't prefer to share the trout together grilled with parsley? :) Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 13:41, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Hehe, not at all. ;-) I'm here to help. :) I'm admin on BS Wiki, so I usually keep an eye on the recent changes. ;) If you have some questions about Bosnian (or ex-Yugoslav) spellings, just hit me. :) -- Kukac (talk) 15:52, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Turning Đ into Dj
Hi In ictu oculi, I just wanted to tell you that I was planning in some near future to open a debate about the fact that all languages using Gaj's Latin alphabet letter Đ should have their letter transliterated in English into Dj. To back this proposal, which will affect 4 languages and numerous articles, I was counting on WP:COMMONNAME and the fact that most (if not all) English language sources use the letter Dj instead. Novak Djokovic is already an exemple of it. However, that proposal should be announced in all related projects and a consensus about it should be reached. As I haven´t had the necessary time for it, for time being I was delaying it, but I just thought that it would be nice to let you know about it, and to hear your thoughts perhaps. FkpCascais (talk) 09:19, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't know. I'm guessing that if Chicago MOS 11.18 says anything it may well say Đ, which is what english.Blic.rs mainly uses. But in Google Scholar scientists with Đ for soft dž are frequently Dj particularly if Serbian. This is something you'd need to discuss on the WikiProject Serbia page. And on WikiProjects Bosnia and Croatia. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hope you don't mind me butting in; but we already have problems with fragmented/contradictory typographical rules (and practices), with different projects doing their own thing, and this often causes a lot of drama further down the line. Although WikiProjects focussed on particular countries certainly have interested editors, I think it would be better to try to "centralise" discussions like this. (Disclaimer: I favour neither Đ nor Dj but am very keen to avoid more move-wars). bobrayner (talk) 10:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes Bob I agree, and in this case the Projects using the Đ would do well to have some discussion consensus among themselves first before it goes anywhere. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Any of you doesn´t need to warry, I was just thinking about this and gathering thouths from other users. The thing is that the letter Đ has been often cited by the editors opposing diacritics, and it is basically used unecessarily, as even local alphabets equaly use it along the Dj variant, so it would have been a way to replace one diacritical letter with a "normal" one, and to put the words closer of their English language usage (as in Đokovic → Djokovic case already happends), and also more easily phoneticaly perceved.  I don´t mind at all you Bobrayner coming here, right the opposite, I even appreciate a lot to hear more opinions on this.  Just to let you know that my idea was indeed to have one centralised discussion, I was just refering to the fact that all related projects should be aware and notified when the discussion happends. FkpCascais (talk) 11:39, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi FkpCascais, sure. It's always good to discuss first. I look forward to seeing Joy/Shallot's input, she seems very well informed. Cheers :) In ictu oculi (talk) 11:52, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Two points about early Christianity
Please see the new section at Talk:Messianic Judaism. Also, I note that User:Ignocrates has apparently retired, as per his comments on his user and user talk page. That leaves only one active editor of the James Tabor/Robert Eisenman/Ebionites POV cabal active, and that fact might make it easier to improve that article. John Carter (talk) 18:40, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Richard Barrington
Many thanks. I see my mistake. Robert Notafly (talk) 08:59, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a problem, as I said, nice bio. I added a WikiProject Ireland tag. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Estimate
Just out of curiosity, how did you come by this estimate of the proportion of articles with diacritics cf potential population? Cheers, -- Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 03:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It may not be very accurate. I asked a regular BLP editor how many BLPs, he said 898,000. Of those I estimate about 400,000 are in the possible Latin-alphabet diacritic space, but half would be naturally non-diacritic. It may be more or less, but it should be 150-250,000 given some rule of thumb checks. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

New project
FYI WikiProject Christian History seems like your field, so may want to just add a signature. History2007 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Eric Grauffel and other Erics
Hi, please make sure you give a source when you change someone's name; even Eric Grauffel's own webpage does not use the spelling "Éric". Cheers. Hairhorn (talk) 01:15, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * English websites rarely use É majuscule, even French websites find it difficult. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:30, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

May 2012
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Filip Horanský, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Tomislav Brkić, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. ''This was also done on Andrej Kračman, Filip Horanský, Germán López‎,, Aldin Šetkić and dozens and dozens of others. You have been asked before to stop and appear to ignore the request. please stop.'' Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:57, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fyunck
 * There is guidance on these templates' pages on not using them in the way you have done, however I'll leave these templates here as a record.
 * I take this as indication that you're going to persist in edit warring "Filip Horanský known professionally/in tennis as Filip Horansky" into articles. As far as I know the situation remains that a dozen editors have asked you to stop doing that, and not one supported it. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you persist in censoring English names from tennis articles then I will keep putting them back. There have been several others who agree. I see from your 100s of edits that you are on a crusade to rid all wikipedias of English sourced names especially this English Wikipedia, good for you, but please stop your edit warring and censoring on established English sourced tennis names. It's one thing to switch around the order of multiple name spellings in an article, it's quite another to censor them completely as though they don't exist. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:42, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe because they are not "English names" Agathoclea (talk) 06:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * We disagree there. If almost all English sources use the name in a particular way it "is" the common English version, like it or not. Some players even have personal websites spelled this way in English... yet are ignored by editors. These players actually chose the English spelling of their names for tennis purposes. If IIO continues to censor these spellings I will continue to put them back. there are many things I let slide as an editor but it isn't worth editing on wikipedia if I allow IIOs censorship to stand. I answer you here because I don't believe anything IIO writes from prior experience. As I see below he's at it again. Unbelievable. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:08, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Agathoclea Fyunck, hello. Yes I know, you have put them back. I just changed only 3 of the 15 following the Gérard Solvès move to agree with the consensus, and you restored them immediately against the consensus as if the consensus and move hadn't happened. Doesn't WP:OPENPARA or that fact that a dozen editors, even those who agree with you on use of sports sources such as Kauffner, have asked you to please not to add this line in bother you at all? My only "crusade" was to weigh in with the majority against your WP:TENNISNAMES bullying of other tennis editors, otherwise I simply getting on with life editing articles in accordance with what everyone else on en.wp does and what the guidelines, and erring on the side of leaving articles with badly sourced sports websites where necessary. However the English-sports-sources problems shouldn't affect scholars, scientists, composers and politicians. You need to get on with life and find something more useful to do than putting these silly WP:TENNISNAMES arguments into BLP ledes. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

French National Assembly, Thélus Léro etc.
I too, have a growing concern with these unilatteral page moves to diarticial titles - which haven't ceased. These moves come across as quite arrogant in nature & don't make for a good atmosphere around the topic. GoodDay (talk) 17:22, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In ictu oculi, I wouldn't worry too much over this squabble with GoodDay. He's a well-known diacritic-o-phobic (one of the ever fewer), and it's doubtful that he's aware that there are English words with diacritics. This is just his way of trying to intimidate people with other views. Despite his alleged care for the English language – and his perceived need to "protect" it from diacritics – he doesn't bother to write the word "English" capitalized (at least not always), and has an odd habit of inserting a comma between the subject and the predicate – neither of which can be described as standard English language or punctuation.
 * By describing some moves as "controversial" and "arrogant", and claiming that there's a "dispute" going on – which he does his best to keep alive – he seems to think that he can exercise his veto at WP:RM. He has tried that several times, but mostly failed. Don't be intimidated. Keep up your good work. Remember: the dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on. HandsomeFella (talk) 22:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So you're advising ictu to avoid RMs & make unilateral page moves? GoodDay (talk) 23:52, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not giving any advice in that matter either way, I'm just saying that he should not worry too much over what can be perceived as threats from you (on your talkpage) if he doesn't comply with your demands. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're an admin. And, oh, what you call "unilateral page moves" is just being bold. There is a move tab on articles for a reason. HandsomeFella (talk) 10:36, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't made any demands, though. GoodDay (talk) 14:05, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This: "Remember, no more unilateral moves from 'no dios' to 'dios'." sure sounds like a demand to me, and this: "If you don't start going about the RM route, more editors will complain & some of them aren't as nice as me." could easily be perceived as a disguised threat (or else a gang of anti-dio thugs will come IIO's way). It's good that you have now retracted that. HandsomeFella (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

It would be a first for me that anyone has objected to a French non-sportsperson being given a French name given that François Mitterrand is actually used as an example in WP:OPENPARA. Since GoodDay cannot make/revert on diacritics I have no objection to bundling Hegesippe Legitimus and a few other guadeloupean/martiniquais bios through RM, if it helps reassure GoodDay that French names are uncontroversial on en.wp. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's pretty apparent that GoodDay isn't acting on logic and reason, but on feelings. Look at this change to his talkpage. I seen a good deal of silliness here at wp, but this sure makes it into the top 10. HandsomeFella (talk) 07:15, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Edouard de Laurot
Thank you for your improvements to this article! I'm curious where you found the info about his date and place of birth. Also, there is some template on the talk page implying the article itself is not sufficiently sourced. Does this need to be addressed somehow, or do you have any other good sources you would recommend to use in expanding the article? Voila-pourquoi (talk) 03:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, this was phenomenally difficult to source, I hope I have included the date and place of birth in the footnotes, oh.. looks not, rats. The place Łódź was from a Polish source, not Warsaw. There's confusion about the name too, "Lada Laudański" is sourced but unbelievable, Lawdański ..a być może herbem Laudański (inna nazwa Lawdański). I may have to go back to it but I was almost at wits end, little or nothing in Polish or French. Are there any more recent French sources you know? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you speak Polish? I'm fluent in French.  If you're available to help out I think we could improve this article substantially.  I'll be able to dig through some sources in English and French later this week. I'm curious: how did you first come across mention of Laurot?  Voila-pourquoi (talk) 14:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * French and Polish. I was just browsing and something clicked a bell from years back. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:37, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the Rosetta Barnstar
Hey, thanks for the barnstar!

Is there any place that I can look for requests for translation questions or language questions on biblical Greek? I have limited time, but I'd be happy to look over some of these requests, and could probably find others who could do the same (perhaps by recruiting on the B-Greek forum). Jonathan.robie (talk) 21:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

An editor's talkpage
I'm allowed to 'delete' anything from my talkpage, just like you're allowed on yours. GoodDay (talk) 02:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are indeed, as I said, I'll try to take your explanation on good faith. Happy editing. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Technical move?
I saw your reply at Wikipedia talk:Inverin suggesting a technical move. What is that in contrast to a move request, as I have done, and where can I read about how to request a technical move? I have searched Help and did not find it listed under "technical moves". Thank you. — O'Dea (talk) 04:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, you are invited!
Wow! I see you have done a lot of valuable work on Wikipedia! I strongly encourage you to open the new section within the WikiProject, as I wrote on the talk page. We can always expand our goals and scope ;) As this is the only Serbian universities WikiProject, it might occure that people interested in other universities in Serbia (or even the region) might want to join and in my opinion the WikiProect should eccept them :) --Comparativist1 (talk) 10:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have just created a section entitled "Other universities" special just for you. Please let me know if it is in the right place. Feel free to change anything. I have also changed the "Scope".--Comparativist1 (talk) 11:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

WP:INDENT
It would be helpful, if you read WP:INDENT. GoodDay (talk) 15:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

RfA
I hesitate to appear to be canvassing by bringing this to your attention, but an arbitrator specifically stated "I would like to hear from other community members who have had recent experiences with GoodDay's editing", and GoodDay has mentioned you (though not by name). The RfA is here. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 10:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I see where I'm mentioned. I suppose that is sufficient reason to come in. I feel a bit sorry actually, although he's a bit random he's probably hurting himself more than anyone, and he's really just a chorus follower in the tennis names saga, which started without him back in mid January among tennis editors and GoodDay didn't even know about the Ivanovic move. I guess if my name is mentioned by actual name I can take that as invitation. Thanks for pointing it out, as I clearly have been mentioned your message isn't canvassing. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Stop adding personal comments on article and guideline talk pages
Iio you have repeatedly been asked to stop creating new inappropriate sections and to stop with placing personal comments onto inappropriate talk pages. Your latest section Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Proper names is both. It can in no way be justified as a consensus building exercise. If you persist then we will have to have a RfC to see if such behaviour is to be tolerated. -- PBS (talk) 12:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Believe me I'm doing my very best not to be "personal" regarding your deletion and edits of MOSPN. It does not give me any please to make comments such as "an exceptionally high degree of WP:DIDNTHEARTHAT." 21 May, and I withdraw that now, 29 May, you have agreed to discuss a real example article to support your deletions/edits to MOSPN, now we may see some progress. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Instead of stopping and using user talk pages for personal comments, I see that you have instead Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Proper names persisted in adding more personal comments to the same section, starting a new comment with "Philip, you respond to this as 'personal'..." which to a third party would be baffling unless they have read your talk page.


 * Not only that but having stated on the same guideline talk page that "It suddenly occurs to me this morning that PBS and MakeSense64 are not refusing to do this out of stubborness or game-playing but simply because they can't. They don't know any language with diacritics, so I might as well be demanding they give an opinion on cuneiform or heiroglyphics." (before I posted this warning) you have now compounded it by asking "Please, don't take this question 'personal', you deleted the diacritics section here, but do you speak/read any language which has diacritics? Which one(s)?" I have had enough I am going to post a ANI on you behaviour. -- PBS (talk) 08:06, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I fully and unreservedly apologise and have done so on the page, I didn't see your willingness to discuss François Hollande, the way the discussion has grown down the page I only saw Napoleon. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And I have moved the section up above into what I presume is the relevant old section at your and MakeSense64's request. I only started a new section because I could not see the continuity, but I'm quite happy to move the section up and have done so. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:53, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

See Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents -- PBS (talk) 09:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Here is an example from another talk page Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style where you have made an unsubstantiated allegation: You write:


 * "For example, the name of the article on Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős is spelt with the double acute accent, and the alternative spellings Paul Erdös and Paul Erdos redirect to that article."- although the entire section has recently been removed without prior discussion of the change on April 19 then restored.


 * Yet as I have shown in detail in the above ANI more than 24 hours notice was given over the changes:


 * So please strike out the false accusation highlighted above on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. -- PBS (talk) 12:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Now archived see:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive754 -- PBS (talk) 12:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened
An arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located at Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay/Evidence. Please add your evidence by, 2012, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 22:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Discussion:Martial Gueroult
Could you please take a look at the unsigned IP comment from 2008 at fr:Discussion:Martial Gueroult if my reading of the situation in our local RM is correct. Agathoclea (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Written records
On the Jesus talk page there was a question/hypothesis that "no records exist of how Jesus' name was written in Herbrew or Aramaic." Is that true? Does it even have a source? Thanks. History2007 (talk) 14:55, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

"Edouard Muller"
Should this be nominated for RM, or is there a CYCLINGNAMES issue by any chance? — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 00:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * category:French cyclists doesn't show any signs of a CYCLINGNAMES issue. What's more of an issue is the article should refer to the man who built Nestlé. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm finding a lack of sources for the Nestlé guy. Here are a couple of fragments: .  Schaffhausen implies Swiss German?  Which might mean no É but ü. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 00:53, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Apart from that photo looks French-Swiss. Made a hndis at Édouard Muller. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Just curious, is this pro-diacritics agenda of yours & P.T's gonna end anytime soon? GoodDay (talk) 01:14, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * GoodDay, mine, P.T. and every other editor who deals with European biographies; it's called editing, in particular editing bio stubs which need sourcing, wikifying and correcting. As you'll have noticed the WikiProject Hockey names compromise under which Czech ice-hockey players who are mainly notable in Canada are anglicized does not cover the rest of en.wikipedia.org. This means that e.g. a French cyclist, or a Belgian Jesuit writer, can be, (and usually are) spelled correctly. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh don't worry (not that you are), as I'm likely going to be barred from stepping into your pro-diacritics path - soon enough. GoodDay (talk) 03:08, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * P. T. Many thanks for finding photo and date of birth in the Swiss archives. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:29, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

College Montmorency
Why do you keep putting diacritics in the content, when there's none in that article's title? You'll notice at Zoë Baird, the non-diacritics version isn't shown in that article's content. Would you support having Zoe Baird in the latter's content? GoodDay (talk) 20:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Many editors when they see a French name misspelled will correct it. In many cases the article title is also wrong and should also be corrected, in a few cases there is a common name issue like Napoleon. Collège Montmorency has had French spelling on en.wp since 2006 and is the correct name, as is Zoë Baird. We don't include mispellings as "alternative names" which is why Gdańsk has Gdańsk and Danzig but not "Gdansk" (sic).In ictu oculi (talk) 22:37, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Emile Regnier
Hello,

In answer to your query, the only information I could find on this ace's death was that he died in a clinic in Pozzi. By the wording, the death would seem to be of natural causes, since Over the Front makes a note of deaths in action.

I am reworking this article, and will post an expanded version in the next couple of days.

Best regards,

Georgejdorner (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Help Survey
Hi there, my name's Peter Coombe and I'm a Wikimedia Community Fellow working on a project to improve Wikipedia's help system. At the moment I'm trying to learn more about how people use and find the current help pages. If you could help by filling out this brief survey about your experiences, I'd be very grateful. It should take less than 10 minutes, and your responses will not be tied to your username in any way.

Thank you for your time,

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José María Amador
I responded on the talk page about the image. However, you owe me big. While doing a Google search, I came across this. Thank you for the nightmaares I'll have tonight. :) Bgwhite (talk) 06:19, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Uck. Oh well I least I uploaded the white-haired old grande to Commons. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

John Hunt (theologian)
Anything on him? The Germans had a page de:John Hunt (Theologe) on him first, explained presumably by his sympathy with the Old Catholics. The introduction to his Essay on Pantheism explains a bit what he thought he was up to. Biographically he pretty well sunk without trace in English, though. His History of Religious Thought gets cited here. It looks like a tough industrial parish in Sunderland drove him into books. But the biographical information is partial and even inconsistent until Dean Stanley took pity on him. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:48, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I had a look yesterday and again just now. Almost nothing. I only knew the name vaguely. Will have another look but seems you've sourced what there is already. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It's not all bad: the museum pages of the Norris Museum in St Ives are one source, and it is just up the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway from me. I may pester them to get a bit more on his time there. Charles Matthews (talk) 21:45, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

RE:Welcome back
Sorry I was busy building up the Convention of London for DYK but I'm still around.  Lajbi  Holla @ me  •  CP  10:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the noodles!
Thank you for your positive suggestions at Talk:Reganmian. It makes good sense to have the article with an English title (supported by several references) and the various romanizations as redirects.

Could I ask for help in an unrelated article? I see that you have several references for Chinese food and some skill at pinyin. The article Chinese pickles has no entry for 雪菜 (P:xue cai). I found at http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?12,49451 the comment:


 * "雪菜 (P:xue cai) is made from mustard greens 芥菜 (p:jia cai), in Cantonese we also call it, 雪利紅 (P:xue li hong). it is typically fresh salted mustard greens. It is typically bright-green green because it is perishable."

If you have something in your references, could you add a line to Chinese pickles for xue cai? Thanks! jmcw (talk) 13:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Idea
Perhaps you have any idea? See Category talk:Ancient Hebrew musical instruments. Debresser (talk) 09:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar
Very much appreciated and reminds me I must get back to creating some more at some stage. If there is an issue with missing diacriticals then when I next add a load I may be adding to the problem because the IPC seem not to use them on their website and this is the main source for the information. Do you know anyone who would have the knowledge and time to look through the Paralympic medalist articles and correct the situation (starting with athletics) or is it more complicated than that?
 * Waacstats is a bot. Don't know why you gave a barnstar to a bot. btw, the bot just asked for its name to be changed to Skynet  :)  Bgwhite (talk) 07:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Dan Tinh
No problem at all. Thanks for your help. Emma dusepo (talk) 08:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I have kept an eye on the discussion, but I am not really bothered either way. As far as I'm concerned both are correct, really! Emma dusepo (talk) 19:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Beginning of the end
FYI: Please see my user page. I have now sem-retired from wiki. Still watch some pages, but not do anything new. And thanks for all your help along the way. History2007 (talk) 08:35, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

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Édouard Hambye
Sorry for the trouble! When I modified the article's title I was not aware that there was a RM and discussion going on. I rarely take part to such discussion, which are usually of little interest or use. The fact is that whatever the decision, the correct name of the man is Édouard Hambye (without the 'René'). Father Hambye himself, whom I have known personnally, would have been surprised by such discussion and decision... Only in India and when publishing in the anglo-saxon world did he use the form 'Edouard R. Hambye' or 'Edward R. Hambye'. While in Belgium or in Rome, it was always 'Édouard Hambye'. There are enough Jesuit documents to prove this... A title such as 'Edouard René Hambye' looks really odd.Zerged (talk) 22:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed your recent edit to Prince Edmond de Polignac does not have an edit summary. Please provide one before saving your changes to an article, as the summaries are quite helpful to people browsing an article's history. Thanks! Hyacinth (talk) 03:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know, should do in an ideal world, but tends to slow down when making uncontroversial edits, particularly with connectivity problems. I suppose "subsections in bio" would be a good summary for that edit. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Project tags for redirects
They are not often used as a lot of people do not know about them, but they are very helpful for the project in question when they use the article watch bot. Agathoclea (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Small minority
"is a small minority view which does not reflect the reality of where en.wikipedia articles are ..." The vast majority of articles which are discussed at WP:RM are discussed in terms of reliable sources. Take for example the current discussion at Talk:Côte d'Ivoire. There although a minority of editors are stating that Wikipedia should follow official usage, the majority are debating usage in reliable English language sources. The major debate is over how accurate OCR counts of Côte d'Ivoire is and how that skews the debate, rather than questioning the methodology of using English language sources to decide the issue.

Having claimed that the CMOS supported your position -- which I took at face value (not having examined that MOS -- I noticed with interest that you made no comment on the last interesting answer that the editor of the CMOS gave to the question: "Hello from Poland! While I have never actually seen CMOS (there is no copy in the US Consulate Library in Poznan where I live), I have seen it mentioned as an authority everywhere. I am now working on a project that requires automated identification of persons and would be grateful to know if CMOS addresses the question of translating given names. When and where are they translated and when do they remain in the original language? Are there any rules in English for this? Of course, one knows the most obvious cases such as Karl Marx and Charles the Bald, but many other cases are not so obvious. For instance, Russian princes are usually named Yuri rather than George. I shall be most grateful for any tips/suggestions."

It shows that the CMOS does not consider there to be a "correct spelling". We do not follow their formula, but use one that saves us the need to make such editorial decisions ourselves, because if we follow the lead taken in English language reliable sources, then we automatically pick up the nuances of whether the subject of a biography is usually referred to using what the CMOS FAQ editor describes as "general audience, then names will probably appear in a form familiar to English-speaking readers", while a subject that has a predominance of scholarly articles about him or her may well use a different style of address. Using reliable English language sources to decide this issue removes the need to make Editorial judgements about such names particularly as editorial personal preferences tend to be a matter of aesthetics and not something that can automatically be agreed upon, while editors editing in good faith can often agree on frequency of usage in reliable English language sources.

-- PBS (talk) 09:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard
See Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents -- PBS (talk) 11:27, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes must notify users you report at ANI - please can you do that or provide a diff of where you have done so - thanks - You  really  can  15:19, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Was done here.

Tomatos, birds and butterflies
In case you're not watching the page (although probably you are), I left a response at Talk:Pear Tomato to a remark by you. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:22, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Common renderings
Hello In ictu oculi -

First, I'd like to say that I don't consider myself a fanatic in the intractable WP diacritics debate. I have both added and removed diacritics on occasion, depending on the situation. So, with that as a preface: A few days ago, you reverted a few instances where I had added a common rendering of a name to an intro, citing WP:FULLNAME and WP:OPENPARA. I'm not sure how those apply to that issue, so if you could explain, that would be great. Also, I'd like to hear from you why you think removing a single early instance of a rendering that is seen in the vast majority of English-language sources improves the encyclopedia. Someone who has only ever seen the rendering "Walesa" (for example) may be slightly disoriented or uncertain when they see "Wałęsa". Adding "Walesa" to the first sentence immediately reinforces that the reader is at the correct article, and the rest of the article can then go on to use whichever rendering has been chosen. Isn't that a benefit to the reader? No information has been lost, and some helpful information has been added. What do you think? Dohn joe (talk) 19:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Liberation
A side note on liberation: In case you had not noticed, the great siphon-off has now started. So whatever has value in Wikipedia will be used elsewhere. Now they have just siphoned off the nodes, in time they will grab whatever is worth grabbing. And the boys in Redmond will do the same sooner or later. My prediction: a few people will build Wolfram alpha type versions of Wikipedia and what there is in Wikipedia now will be just the lowest level of the food chain. That is certain to happen now, given the force of the universe principle. History2007 (talk) 00:19, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Il templario
Many thanks for your very kind addition of the Barnstar. This opera has really caught my attention, and I've just ordered a copy of the CD recording after listening to some You-Tube selections.

The more I read about Nicolai's Italian work, the more interesting it becomes. Today, I have updated and added refs to the Il templario article. There's more to follow as I look into my reference sources. Viva-Verdi (talk) 03:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Using search engines to research article titles
Thank you for your kind comments here.

What I'm trying to achieve is described here, near the bottom.

There's quite a good tutorial here on how to use search engines to research article titles and names. However it's hard to find. There is a link to this wierdly-titled "Search engine test" article near the bottom of the Common names section of Article titles, but most Wikipedia users will never find the article, much less read all the way down to the tutorial. I feel that it would be beneficial to many users to link direct to this tutorial section from near the top of Article titles. How do you feel about this? LittleBen (talk) 06:04, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

PS: Just added a hatnote to Help:Searching that links to Search_engine_test. LittleBen (talk) 06:50, 5 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The criteria for Recognizability is not explained here, so I again added a link to an article telling how to research it, but this was again reverted by Dicklyon. LittleBen (talk) 06:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

my talk page
Sorry for not replying on my talk page, I've been a bit short of time and have not been as involved with Wikipedia lately as I wish I could be. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 04:19, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

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Zabraǌeno Pušeǌe
I collapsed our discussion and modified my initial statement at talk:Zabranjeno Pušenje to avoid WP:TLDR issue. Please revert if you think they are inappropriate, or approve them otherwise. Thanks! — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 21:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Mdann52 (talk) 07:58, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Maître Egidius
How sure are you that this is not a duplicate of Egidius de Francia? Wareh (talk) 20:32, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking into it! I couldn't figure it out myself. Wareh (talk) 02:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. I noticed the various Egidius pages via your talkpage. I've done some work on them, building on your beginning. I hope this can build some goodwill. I'm a big fan of ars subtilior and 14th-century music in general. Maybe there are other articles we can work on together? Dohn joe (talk) 21:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * For example, do you have access to Grove? I'd love to see what they have to say about the various Egidii.... Dohn joe (talk) 22:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Leads
Hi, thank you for your contributions. Please do not add empty brackets to the lead. The birth date and place can be added as needed. Also, it does not necessarily add to a lead to add the nationality. Most leads are fine as they are. Thank you Span (talk) 17:05, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They have been added.. Nationality in lede is preferred, see Manual of Style/Biographies. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:29, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Oilgate
''Hi, thanks for speaking up in the BLP RMs; re Oilgate, what are you proposing moving the South African scandal to? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC)''
 * Ehh...caught me with my trousers down. Thanks for the 411.  I'll address it at Talk:Oylegate.  —  AjaxSmack   01:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

James the Just
Call it a guess, but I have some suspicions about the recent edits of the IP to this page and others previously., in which he replaced "Christian" with "early Jerusalem Messianic Community" and some similar edits. I would definitely appreciate the input of someone else who knows the subject on these recent edits. Thank you for your attention. John Carter (talk) 01:39, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks at first sight like a sock. But in any case lousy edits. Will do. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:41, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

the bigger picture
Is there something that can be done to fix this issue of the war against diacritics? What sort of policies would need to change, and in what direction? I think it's ridiculous that people are going around trying to remove diacritics from proper French names. --KarlB (talk) 03:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi,..
I do not have an Indonesian language source re e.g. José Sebastián Vásquez. Iha9c (talk) 04:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

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Talk:Yerba mate
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Yerba mate. I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Mate (beverage)
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Mate (beverage). I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:58, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Modena Codex
Hello - I know you didn't express interest in collaboration, but I would appreciate you taking a look at an article I just created - Modena Codex. Or if you'd rather not, then perhaps you could refer me to another editor who might be willing to review it. Thanks. Dohn joe (talk) 00:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

"Dap loi" vs "banh bo"
I will find someone knows more about these things answer your question. Please wait, thanks. Violetbonmua (talk) 00:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Bánh bó" and "bánh bò" is two different kind of "bánh" (cake). You can see the picture of "bánh bó" here. The way they are made is also different. Although, "bánh bò" is quite more popular, every Vietnamese does know it. Not the same with "bánh bó". Violetbonmua (talk) 12:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

More
Not just Cần Thơ, there are many other articles on that RM, please revert back ALL of them. Thank 134.139.21.249 (talk) 20:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Bui doi
Hi. I hope it's OK that I'm going to be pretty blunt here. Can you please explain how you came across Bui doi and made this edit? It looks like you are following Kauffner's contributions and, if you are, I strongly advise you to stop. Following the contribs of an editor that you are so regularly in disagreement with and then reverting their edits could easily be seen as hounding. Of course, if you do have a reasonable explanation, I unreservedly apologise for jumping to conclusions. Also, and this is not really a problem, in your edit summary you said "not the correct location", but the redirect is actually the correct place to put a  tag. Jenks24 (talk) 09:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Jenks24
 * Given that yourself are observing my edits (and I am not observing yours) perhaps I should be on your talk page asking you for an explanation? However the answer is simple enough, I was not aware of the extent of Kauffner's moves in the Vietnam categories until the Đàn tính RM. I am still not clear on the extent and history. In this case it is not surprising that Kauffner and I are observing each others' edits to Vietnam articles. I have chosen to bring 6x of his moves followed by edited redirects to RM for possible community restore. As regards bui doi, the reason I would immediately notice a request for a speedy deletion to enable a move relates to the previous case at dan day, where you can see Malik Shabazz's advice to Kauffner not to use the speedy deletion route on Kauffner's talk page. (Correction, Kauffner has blanked it, you'll need to follow the history). I suggest you discuss the dan day and bui doi speedy deletes with Malik Shabazz if you consider that the request not to use speedy delete to enable moves is incorrect. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not observing your edits; Kuaffner came to my talk page and pointed it out to me, asking for help. Please stop following Kauffner's edits. As WP:HOUND notes, doing so can have very detrimental effects on others' enjoyment of editing and cause them distress. I really don't wish to do so – your comments at RMs are always very helpful when I make a close – but if you continue to follow his edits I will take this to ANI. If you ever feel Kauffner is following your edits, feel free to let me know and I will give him the same warning. I just looked up Malik's comment and I fully agree with it. Moves involving the addition or removal of diacritics are controversial, so  should not be used to do so. However, moves involving capitalisation are often, but not always, uncontroversial, which means it's OK to  . Seeing as the article does not have prior title discussions on the talk page and uses lower case throughout, why do you think a move to the lower case would be controversial? Jenks24 (talk) 13:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. By all means observe both sets of edits and check earlier this week the time difference between myself editing a Vietnam page (lede/text/ref, not reverting a move) and Kauffner making an edit to full Vietnamese spelling redirect thereby preventing anyone moving said article back to original location. Not one article, maybe a dozen. The intention on removing the speedy delete on bui doi was consistency with Malik Shabazz's comment and if you fully agree with Malik Shabazz, then you agree with me too, and that's good. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * corrected:
 * 08:45, 15 July 2012‎ Bụi đời - Kauffner REDIRECT created and then immediately adding the cat 08:46 preventing move
 * 09:42, 15 July 2012‎ Bui Doi - In ictu oculi notices redirect and adds sources Peycam 2011 Lambert 2009 to article
 * 10:25, 15 July 2012‎ Bui doi - Kauffner requests G6 for uncontroversial move
 * 0?:00, 15 July 2012 Bui doi - In ictu removes per Malik Shabazz previous rejection of G6
 * Sorry for delay getting back to this. In response to the diffs, no, those are two separate pages. I don't see how you could have known about Kauffner's edit unless you were following his contribs. I looked at Kauffner's edits and I don't a problem; a bot would have done the same thing soon anyway and he was editing redirects that had been around for a while, not creating and then immediately adding the cat a la Dolovis. I think you have misunderstood my comment about using  – I agree it should not be used for diacritics, but it is perfectly OK to use for capitalisation. To be clear: there is no black-and-white rule, each case must be judged on its merits. Do you actually think the the article should remain the capitalised title, or did you remove the tag because of a misinterpretation of what Malik had said? Jenks24 (talk) 10:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Jenks24, obviously I have taken a look at Kauffner's edits, albeit with no quite the same assiduity as he has been following mine. As I said the intention on removing the speedy delete on bui doi was consistency with Malik Shabazz's comment and if you fully agree with Malik Shabazz, then you agree with me too, and that's good. Are we done here? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We're done here. Jenks24 (talk) 01:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I think there is a larger problem here; I have also been watching Kauffner's edits, mainly as a result of several RMs he has put forth that are contentious. Kauffner is well aware that removing diacritics is disputed, yet over the past month or so he has moved dozens if not hundreds of articles without any discussion, and then has gone back and re-categorized the redirects, which prevents anyone from reverting the move. The result is, a consensus title (e.g a title that had been stable with diacritics) is now changed, and it can't be changed back without going through a RM. I feel that this is (a) not in line with the VN style guide, which suggests use of diacritics is fine if sources follow and (b) somewhat sneaky. I would suggest that some other action should be taken to ask Kauffner to cease these actions, and open up a larger RfC on VN diacritics. In any case, the unilateral page moves should stop. --KarlB (talk) 18:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Karl. As far as I can see there was a RM on a Chicago math professor which did, by 7 to 5, go in Kauffner's favour which could in theory provide some justification for moving every Vietnamese bio on WP. But the moving of towns goes against the failed RM on towns. And as for things like category:Vietnamese words and phrases there has been no RM at all. One can only hope that the current RMs in will mean that our friend pauses. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi
Hi there, thank you very much for your warm encouragement and other inquests on Vietnamese articles, but the thing is that I'm too busy with my work and hardly have time for Wikipedia, so please forgive me for not returning to your questions soon, if you need some helps, please go to the discussion page of Vietnamese wikipedia, I pass by that page from time to time, and if others cannot help you, I'll try (with my tiny amount of free time). Please, keep up your good works on Vietnamese articles, I do appreciate a lot your efforts! With best regards. Grenouille vert (talk) 18:17, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm very happy to see an enthusiastic editor on Vietnamese-related articles like you, thank you for your active works! About the diacritic war, I feel quite frustrated wasting my time in endless discussions which lead to nowhere so please help me to make people understand about the uniqueness and necessity of Vietnamese diacritics, if you have any question, feel free to ask. Sincerely. Grenouille vert (talk) 17:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, well Vietnam is part of my past - in Hanoi 20 years ago, but these recent article changes have encouraged me to open a box in the attic. About the diacritic "war", fortunately on en.wp suddenly we find ourselves now with it concluded as regards European articles. Which is quite something, evidently some English speakers get irritated even by French names, so the surprising outbreak of consensus (give or take 4 or 5 editors) all across en.wp on Czech names is quite an improvement - but then as Czechs and Poles are all in the EU people's attitudes have changed. By the way, did you notice on Talk:Truong Tan Sang that "The official English-language newspaper, Việt Nam News, has always used diacritics, although I can't link to this since they don't use them in the online version". Quite ironic, don't you think? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you for the suggestion of Ngô Sĩ Liên, he deserves to be given back his original name, but there are a lot more articles with name changed by Kauffner, do you have any suggestion for all of them or do we have to deal with them case by case? Grenouille vert (talk) 10:46, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, I've been here long enough to understand that simple rule. The point is I'm too tired with all the crap that Kauffner's created with Vietnamese names and I really don't have time to argue with him or administrators whether his move is correct or not (apparently he's trolling around, but it seems that English administrators just don't care since they want to stick to "the rules"). I will do that again, if necessary and if I think my move is righteous, maybe English administrators need that kind of "wake-up call" to review what Kauffner has done with my bunch of articles that I had tried my best to contribute to Wikipedia. Grenouille vert (talk) 04:55, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your warm words, but I've lost my patience with the ignorance of administrators here, even in this small case they could not manage to act less bureaucratically. I don't want to create new articles just to see them destroyed by Kauffner et al. right under the "watchful" eyes of administrators. Grenouille vert (talk) 05:18, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

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Jelena Janković discussion close
You will want to look at the close I left there. I appreciate your efforts to shed light on the subject at my Talk page, and I saw evidence you'd "stepped away form the revert wars", so my note here should not be construed as a warning. The short form of my close is that existing policy isn't specific enough for me to say dediacriticed forms are or aren't significant alternate forms. A local consensus about that question would based on less than half a dozen comments would have not gotten us any real resolution. So....

What I would suggest is getting that nailed down with an RfC at WT:AT. It sucks, I wish this could be handled in a lighter-weight way, but I unfortunately I'm left with the belief that that's the only way a result is going to stick. In the meantime, the behavior of edit warring has to stop, and I hope that I've now made it clearer that further reversions on this subject won't be looked at kindly until this is resolved.

Thanks again for the information you provided during the discussion. --j⚛e deckertalk 07:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Isa (name)
Hi, could you take a look at the talk page there? There is an ongoing endless discussion that I think you might help solve.--  R a f y  talk 15:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

rfc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#RFC:_Names_with_diacritics_and_other_non-ASCII_letters:_Should_we_permit.2C_require.2C_or_prohibit_ASCIIfied_versions.3F

FYI, --j

New template
I created a new template for listing old move discussions: Oldmoves, since I missed having it during the Cote d'Ivoire and other debates. Please take a look and tweak/change/improve. I've added it to a few articles Talk:Queen_Victoria, Talk:Ivory_Coast, Talk:Cần_Thơ as a pilot so you can see what it looks like; if you like it, you can add it to other articles you've worked on. --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:56, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting - do you have to write in the moves manually? I'm not good with software. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, for now. It's not meant to capture actual page moves, but rather the significant discussions. The move log + history is usually sufficient to capture page moves.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 17:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well it's certainly a useful template for responsible editors. WP:RM does already say "If there was a previous discussion use == Requested move xxxx == where xxxx can be the year if that is appropriate, or "2" for a second discussion." though normally the original RM is still clearly visible. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ideally there would be a link automatically showing all of the past actual moves of a page, but I don't know how to do this or whether it's even possible. I wish we could filter the page history to show these more easily in a single place. PS just found this: Requests_for_arbitration/AndriyK --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 17:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well as someone with no technical quals at all can only wish. The case you link seems pretty extreme. Take care, going offline now. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now it's fixed; if you provide titles, it will link to the move logs automatically - see Talk:Ivory Coast. Could be useful for high traffic pages or ones with lots of controversial move discussions. As for the arbcom case, yes it's extreme, just I noticed that he was admonished for creating and then editing redirects.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 18:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

2012 Olympic BLPs
Hi. If you get any of them sourced and up to DYK length, let me know and I can nominate them for DYK. --LauraHale (talk) 03:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

re: Bonjour Lugnuts!
Hehe, great title! Yes, that's more than OK. That's my hope - that starting some non-UK/US/Canada/Aus, etc bios will generate expansion from outside of the English-speaking world. Nice work!  Lugnuts  (talk) 06:49, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

ANI notice
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at WP:AN/I regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is long term pattern of obstructions by In ictu oculi. Thank you. —MakeSense64 (talk) 08:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Niccolò Campriani
Can you add a medal box based on Italian wikipedia. The article needs proof reading/♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:19, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Accents done. Not silly at all - it's busywork, and I know it's not for everyone.  But I like busywork. :-) -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 13:50, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The more the merrier, say I. I can't always promise to get to them first thing in the morning, but I'll do my darndest. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 13:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And done. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 14:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll do a run of 'em later this evening. Just got back from my own personal Olympics - in the swimming event I won gold.  Not hard since I was the only person in the race. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 01:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 08:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear that - if you do decide to do them, I'll be happy to back you up on 'em. I have to eat something, and do a couple of chores, but I'll get back to do them in a little while. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Émilien-Benoît Bergès cannot be moved due to the already-existing redirect; it will require a special request. The others I have done. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:27, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: Diakite and others
If you can find reliable sources for their names with diacritics, I don't oppose moving the articles. I didn't included diacritics because the source I used didn't include them.--Cattus talk 18:56, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, I added in sources from local newspapers. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Vietnamese diacritical marks
Hi, I see I collided with the mere tip of an iceberg, so I'm leaving the issue to those who are more involved. I hope it's resolved satisfactorily. Best wishes, Yopienso (talk) 20:29, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I expressed my "Oppose" opinion at the survey thread. I also asked a few common-sense, reasonable (IMO) questions, which no one from either side has bothered to answer. Yours, Quis separabit?  21:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Categories
Hi--

Back in June you asked a question on my talkpage about a few Categories you were interested in, and I replied that I didn't know anything at all about Categories - which is still true. Now I want to ask you about an apparently obsolete and useless Category page, which I just happened to notice below where I had been posting at Talk:Deconstruction, called "Category:Articles linked from high traffic sites". I didn't know what this meant; the article on Deconstruction is certainly not "high traffic". Looking at the Category page I seem not to find a complete history - just two quite old entries, one from a bot. And on the talkpage, clicking the link See visitor traffic goes to a dead end. Would this entire Category be a candidate for deletion? Milkunderwood (talk) 01:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh - you confused me. I thought you were responding to the Deconstruction posts left by Christophe. Can you get rid of it? I couldn't even link to it. Milkunderwood (talk) 02:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Pages
Hi, FYI I removed the Kyrios page from my watchlist, given that I am dropping pages as part of my liberation. I recall that you had a similar page, so if you want to merge them please do. Could I leave that page to you? Thanks. History2007 (talk) 16:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. As for the liberation, it is a nice feeling... Several years ago on a flight I happened to read an interview somewhere with Peter Lynch just as he had retired and they said why did you retire? He said I thought if on my deathbed they asked me "do you wish you had done 3 more trades?" the answer would have been no, would have preferred to do something else... So I often think of that not just in this case, but others, and so probably fighting 3 more IPs may not be my last wish... History2007 (talk) 16:28, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Inter Milan
Why do I get the feeling User:Leaky caldron has some sort of vested interest in keeping the article at that title? There are certainly very strong arguments for having the article at Inter Milan, but there are equally strong (if not stronger) arguments for having it at F.C. Internazionale Milano. I'm trying to leave a reasonable gap before reopening a move request, but once enough time has elapsed, I'm going to make sure that the RM is adequately advertised, unlike the others. Oftentimes, it is sufficient to advertise in the table at WP:FOOTY, but at other times, we have to post on specific people's talk pages; this is one of those times. – PeeJay 00:14, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank for supporting
Thank you for your support of retaining Vietnamese diacritics. I'm also one of the very strong supporters for that. Just to remind you that when after you create an article with name in diacritics, please don't forget to make a redirect from the title without diacritics. For e.g., you create the page Nguyễn Sinh Sắc but forgot to make a redirect from Nguyen Sinh Sac so I had to it. Cheer. ༆ (talk) 06:49, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yep will try to remember that. Thanks again. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:57, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Check the News.Az website, I believe it is the English-language newspaper from a non-English speaking country? They even preserve the diacritics in the Vietnamese names. ༆ (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes it appears to be an Azerbaijani paper - should be added as a source to President of Vietnam Trương Tấn Sang article I think. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Tomàs Buxó


The article Tomàs Buxó has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Unsourced; doesn't adequately describe notability, may fail WP:COMPOSER

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Zujua (talk) 11:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Armando Machado


The article Armando Machado has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Meatsgains (talk) 22:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Diacritics
No, I agree to use diacritics.  Ogress  smash!  18:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)



p/s: nice to meet you :) Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 16:13, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, on my opinion, in Viet Nam, Bụi đời mostly refer to the life of the people (usually young guys) who do not have a home (usually do not have stable life, either) and wander from places to places. A related verb: đi bụi usually means someone left their home - usually due to problems of their relationships with their family - to begin the "Bụi đời" life.


 * I guess you can use this site, althought it is not 100% reliable. And you can go to vi.wiki and ask user vi:thành viên:Meotrangden, this person is a professional translator. His answer is probably much more correct than mine.

Hope it helps. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 06:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Emeli Sandé
Emeli Sandé is sadly not a tennisplayer. Agathoclea (talk) 05:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Iñigo → Íñigo
Greetings. I see you have changed several occurrences of Iñigo to Íñigo (with an acute accent on the letter I), and I was wondering if you could provide some insight on the matter. I too am under the impression that Íñigo is the correct orthography, and Behind the Name, a website dedicated to the etymology and history of first names, and Wiktionary seems to coincide with this. However, as I was recently writing the article Iñigo Martínez on Finnish Wikipedia, most of the sources I found had his name as Iñigo instead of Íñigo. I’m wondering why? Is it a relic from the typewriter times when it was impossible (or so I’ve heard) to use accents on capitalized letters due to technical restrictions? Another factor might be that most of the people with the name are Basques, and there are no accents in the Basque language, but the name’s Spanish though (according to Behind the Name, the Basque form is Eneko), so that shouldn’t matter either, right? I’d just like to be sure before going about moving the article (and possibly several others). –Kooma (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Kooma, nice to hear from you. Spanish orthography is that the Í should be written for a native Spanish name like Íñigo, although as with Ó in Spanish Óscar, and French É in Édouard, some Spanish sources do omit the Í due to the legacy of metal type. Í with non-native Spanish names is not always used: For example the Spanish name Ingrid/Íngrid (even when pronounced Íngrid) is not always written with the Í, because many people consider it a Swedish name, which of course it was originally, though it seems cases like Íngrid Betancourt, Íngrid Rubio etc, mean it is increasingly being treated like Íñigo, as if it was a native Spanish name. If you click through from the en.wp article to es:Ortografía del español it should give more clear guidance. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Re the footballer, the sources in the es.wp article Íñigo Martínez se rompe el menisco y será baja 5 meses seem to show that the html of text may miss the Í, but in headlines sports pages are more careful to use Í correctly. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Any idea why the Spanish Wikipedia would not accent the initial I? See es:Iñigo Martínez. Is there some reluctance to recognize accents on capital letters even in Spanish? On the other hand, sometimes it is accented, as in es:Íñigo de la Serna. EdJohnston (talk) 03:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Ed. I don't think there's an issue of consciously not accepting it. The es.wp editor who created the football BLP es:Iñigo Martínez probably didn't even think about it - capital accents are quite commonly missed on Spanish sports websites and even in the sports pages of newspapers: http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20110622/real-sociedad/inigo-martinez-renueva-hasta-2015_54174583360.html misses the capital I, but I just searched "Oscar Cardozo" and mundodeportivo.com misses accent from Óscars too, yet es:Óscar Cardozo is still Óscar. The es:Iñigo Martínez are a mix. Inevitably there'll be some that don't bother, like BBC.co.uk website frequently doesn't bother for Charlotte Brontë either. Nature of non-encyclopedic websites... But no quality source would miss Íñigo, wheras they might not give a Spanish Íngrid. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the discrepancy in the Spanish Wikipedia is what confused me even futher, but upon closer look, All pages with prefix reveals that Íñigo wins 61–9 as far as the article titles go. Well, I guess I’ll move the article in the Finnish Wikipedia and hope that no one complains. :-) Thanks for your explanation and time. –Kooma (talk) 14:25, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Bánh canh and other Vietnamese phrases

 * ''(carried over from Talk:Bat lau dung laai - we're getting off-topic there)

As I said before, I'm not personally keen on moving Banh canh back to Bánh canh, although another admin might want to do it. In general I'm not keen on preserving diacritics on enwp page titles if a version without them has entered common usage in English-language literature describing the concept. Deryck C. 16:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Deryck, I've snipped the comment related to Talk:Bat lau dung laai (as it is there in Talk page history now), and I don't think it was off topic there, but you're welcome to remove that's fine. I was simply exploring the options. Thanks for your time. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. I've restored the snipped stuff onto my own user-talk page, just in case I want to do something with Sam bo luong vs Ching po leung later on. Deryck C. 16:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

VNmese names
I agree with you that this debate is not going anywhere. Both sides have already presented all their concerns and reasons, but both failed to persuade their opponents. Keep discussing in this topic only adds more unneccessary heat to the place. I guess I will go to have several glasses of trà đá then :). Sincerely. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Seconded. I think it's time that we post another message on Village pump or something; reading the latest batch of comments from the anti-diacritics side started to annoy me, and that's really not a good sign. Personally, as an editor who came to this issue from an outside source, who had no prior involvement initially, I'm really getting sick of the personal attacks, and the incivility aimed at you, me, and the others in that thread. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 01:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi man. I also came from outside, I noticed this only when I saw what I considered xenophobic comments against East European editors and athletes on a WP:RM I happened to drop in on in March. I would think the 3 WP:TENNISNAMES editors are particularly angry with me personally since I've been the main proposer of a series of WP:RMs where broader Users' support has brought 45 of the 50 or so tennis BLPs which had been deliberately "English named" back in line with the 1000 or so non-"English named" tennis BLPs, and back in line with what is 100% the norm for en.wp. The exception is Talk:Stephane Huet which really someone else needs to resubmit into WP:RM to close the book on WP:TENNISNAMES. I would think time spent on that would be better spent at WP:RM than time spent answering MakeSense64 - there's also the problem that when MakeSense64 is highly litigous, if he/she doesn't get his/her way he/she will take you to ANI for disagreeing with him/her.
 * As for Vietnamese, it's evidently slightly more difficult because of "Asian". We keep unfortunately seeing what I assume are western editors with some knowledge of Japanese and Chinese making meaningless comments about Sino-Japanese Hanzi/Kanji. Can you imagine if in a discussion on whether to show the á in Václav Havel an editor went "but he's a Slav, we don't write Владимир Путин"? ...well actually having said that I can imagine that being said. In any case the 1,700 articles User:Kauffner has moved - despite requests from Prolog and Gimmetoo and others to stop going back to August 2011 - are all now locked by the same user's redirect edicts. It will take till 2017 for the community to restore them all via WP:RM. It makes sense to start with the most blindingly stupid - ancient kings, dynasties, cultural articles. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:47, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There does seem to be a higher-than-average level of venom in this RFC, agreed. I've seen the ANI log with you and MakeSense64, as well as an exchange relating to it on MakeSense64's talk page; it does seem a bit much, you're absolutely right. Frankly, I'm running out of ideas for how to proceed; either we need an Admin to close the RFC (it's well beyond a "no consensus" now, I think), or some other sort of resolution. A few editors are resorting to deflection and delaying tactics, and that's a bit absurd, really. I think we need to either bring more editors into the conversation, bring more editors back to the conversation, or something, because at this point we're just going in circles with an entrenched minority. With regards to Kauffner and the others, if they persist in bad-faith moves, personal attacks, and incivility, it might be a good idea to take it to mediation or something. I've pleaded for civility and discussion at least a dozen times now, but it's not really having any effect. Thoughts? Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 17:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No particular thoughts I'm afraid - I left a message and had a reply from JoeDecker who set up the other tennis names related RfC earlier today and he's going to close that. But the Vietnamese RfC, well... the majority about 20 to 10, surprisingly, expressed favouring Vietnamese, but I don't know how that will translate to doing anything about articles, much less the Naming conventions page. I still have a bit more faith that people will participate in the Vietnamese items at the end of the WP:RM queue. That's a safer forum editors like, clear results, less vitriol, shorter, simpler. Apart from that no other immediate thoughts. Thanks very much for the message btw. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, I just added one more, I know some others but they don't have article on Wiki so don't bother. Grenouille vert (talk) 12:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

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Rfc?
Hello IIO.

Where is that rfc that is discussing those nonsense "known professionally as" additions?

Thanks

HandsomeFella (talk) 06:43, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Names
Hmm, I assume it was quite a long time ago. I don't recollect which one was that. - Darwinek (talk) 16:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Adminship, again
Hi In ictu oculi. Can I call you IIO? I came here encouraging you to stand for adminship just to see people have recommended it before. I'm not surprised. From what I've seen at RM, you have a solid grasp of policies and a cool head. In April, you cited your position on diacritics in tennis names as a potential stumbling block to adminship, but since then, the tide has turned rather decisively in favor of your position. I hope you'll reconsider. I'd be happy to nominate you (although you could probably find more of a heavyweight to do that), or at least to register my strong support. Best, BDD (talk) 16:33, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's very kind of you. But I'm not naturally drawn to such positions, and the ending of this xenonyms nonsense may well coincide with me having less time again. And I'm more interested in returning to religion and music articles. But thanks for the message, nice to hear. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you change your mind, I'd certainly support you. You've a very good grasp of WP policies, and a cooler head than most other editors involved in the diacritics/etc. dispute. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 17:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

VN RFC
It seems the RFC has stalled, leaving the issue in a limbo of sorts. Where do we go from here? Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 17:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Frankfurt (Main) Hauptbahnhof
Hi, please don't revert any more Hauptbahnhof articles unless there has been a[nother] full discussion first. You already know this is controversial and that there are plenty of people on both sides of the debate, so we'll all need patience! Thank you. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: Hồng Bàng dynasty
Oh yes, I want to do that too, but not just Hồng Bàng but many other articles about Vietnamese dynasties as well. As you can find them in Template:History of Vietnam, Kauffner had also renamed several articles to that without diacritics with the same reason as in Talk:Ngo Bao Chau despite that the Vietnamese dynasty articles were NOT part of that RM. And yes, actually, you can help me to put a RM for that because I somehow don't speak English very well (English is not my native language).

Moreover, I see that you also put RM to further various articles to rename them with diacritics in their titles. Similar to the case in Talk:Ngo Bao Chau, you should gather all of them together into one RM.

As for the case about the word "dynasty", you can help me argue about that too (perhaps in the talk page of some WIKI:Naming convenience project). There were 2 actions that contrasted one another. Some users attempted to rename the articles by de-capitalizing the word "dynasty" (check out Vietnamese dynasty articles, Kauffner and User:Tony1 renamed them by dropping the word "dynasty" to lower-case form). Yet on the other hand, some users also renamed other articles by putting "dynasty" in upper case (such as in the cases of Ottoman Dynasty and Chakri Dynasty

I don't get this. What does this mean anyway? I was thinking that: do we have two policies about this? We probably have to bring this issue to some talk page of Wiki:project about history and capitalization for many more users to discuss. ༆ (talk) 09:14, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Yig Mgo, you're probably right that like Talk:Ngo Bao Chau is more efficient. I have done that now at WP:RM (as you can see) with the final remaining 180x East Europeans who had accents removed, 6 long lists of 30x maximum names in each one. For Vietnamese however it's probably better to proceed slowly and more particularly. Realistically Kauffner's 1,800 undiscussed moves are a fait accompli that is effectively impossible to undo. The best that can be done is to restore articles of particular Vietnamese national significance in culture and history and sort out particularly ugly inconsistencies and ambiguities.
 * Sure, I left a message on WT:CAPS already about "xx Province", can leave another for "xx Dynasty". And then would be very happy to help with the English, though your English looks fine to me. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, of course, 'Definitely, it must be moved back to Hồng Bàng Dynasty. As I wrote above, please help me argue about this (with the admin who moved it), let's join all pages together into 1 discuss for move. ༆ (talk) 02:24, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Not just diacritics, please don't forget to restore the capitalizing "dynasty". Cheer. ༆ (talk) 04:04, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is another extreme example as why we need diacritics: Phan Thanh Hung. ༆ (talk) 18:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. I have left a note on this new User's talk page, you might like to do the same :) In ictu oculi (talk) 01:36, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

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Ao dai
Perhaps I've teased you enough about this one. No, áo doesn't translate as shirt, tunic, blouse, or anything really. It's a classifier for clothing: áo sơ mi is a shirt, áo đầm is a dress, and áo bà ba is the famous "black pajamas". There is a lot of this in Vietnamese. "Cat" is con mèo, with con a classifier used for animals and children. Kauffner (talk) 03:06, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There are various adages that could be repeated here, and various lessons which you should draw, but I think everything about the above speaks quite adequately for itself. As you will no doubt have seen, I have added a section Classifier_(linguistics), but I suggest you find your Vietnamese teacher and get her to explain to you. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I see you're sticking with "tunic". So an áo sơ mi is a "tunic shirt"? The example should be something representative and easily understood, not something that leads to this kind of weirdness. Kauffner (talk) 02:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The only "weirdness" here is in someone who clearly has only a basic command of Vietnamese thinking he's in the position of contradicting a Vietnamese grammar writtern by Đình Hoà Nguyẽ̂n a native Vietnamese grammar professor. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The book says "áo dài 'Vietnamese dress, tunic'". There is no claim that áo means "tunic". Kauffner (talk) 06:25, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Ho Bang dynasty
i do not think that I can help you to clarify this. It is a year ago, and I cannot noe recall it except by reviewing the page history. As far as I can see it was, or seemed to be, a straightforward move to eliminate the diacritical marks, which is reasonable in the English wikipedia. this is all that I did. Any other moves or taggings (which I cannot see) were not done by me. I have, of course, no problem with being reverted here.--Anthony Bradbury"talk" 22:13, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Gurudas Banerjee
I am surprised here! I am not sure if it is the correct spelling Gooroodas Banerjee and Gurudas Banerjee. Being a native speaker of Bengali, I can se the spelling Gooroodas is completely weird. It is like spelling (Mother) Mary as May-re. There is no problem if that person used to use that weird spelling, I think. Also note the surname is a complex one (Banerjee also means Bandopadhyay, it is like Jimmy and Jimbo), So, it should not be a quick decision! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  00:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Few two Government documents making it worse, one or two of them are Indian national Government publication! With my good wishes -- Tito Dutta  ✉  00:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * As per Talk page reply, I don't mind either way, I only merged the newer unsourced duplicate article into old one. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:25, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, which one is ridiculous spelling? Well, please see the signature in the infobox here. The common spelling of his name is "Subhash", but this person used to write wrong spelling "Subhas". So, in addition of the Government documents I added this signature too to show this person actually used to spell his name like this. Here too, we can primarily rely on 1) Government documents 2) His own signature (if any)!
 * I am not sure how to do with that move request now! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  00:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Vietnames communes
You are active in Vietnames topic, I have a proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam, please take a look and give comments. Thank you in advance.--Cheers! (talk) 04:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Phủ Lý
I agree - if I had been informed this move was proposed, I would have opposed it. What's the best way to get it restored? Colonies Chris (talk) 09:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Leonardo García Alarcón
Qué pasó? (What happened) If you want a page to be moved over it, you could use Db-move. Ryan Vesey 17:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It is fr.wp User:Frinck51's request. But he/she's correct. When I created the bio I was fooled by a typographical irregularity on http://leonardogarciaalarcon.com/biographie.html. There is no hyphen. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:29, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Sina.com
All I can say is... it's a mess. Shouldn't it be Sina Corporation though? Deryck C. 22:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Re:
Hello and sorry for the late reply. I had to finish some very important work so I couldn't find anything for Wikipedia.Regard to Tran Trong Kim's account, I can not help you right now as my uni's library is closed. I will do some research before joining the Lady Trieu's name discussion.--AM (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Halmosi
I did not reply to this, but I was wondering if you could explain it, in the context:

...moreover a bunch of living persons where considerable effort in the form of redirects was expended to spell incorrectly. The notability issue is something for WP:HOCKEY to address. But (myself having no interest other than the BLP accuracy angle), by WP:WORLDVIEW these Czechs and Slovaks are probably more notable globally than many Canadian players who have never represented their country and are only of local Canadian interest. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:00 am, 24 August 2012, last Friday (6 days ago) (UTC−4)

I was complaining about people creating stubs with no effort to make them into articles, which applies to any article, of any category. Editors are supposed to create articles with intent to expand them into articles right away. The notability guidelines don't exempt that obligation, only allow a way to create articles without immediate deletion. I don't see what your tagging it to my comment was about. It seems like 'last-wordism', to coin a phrase. Secondly, I don't know if any of the players named in the various moves have appeared in any top-flight international competition. From the sample I've seen, they are just run-of-the-mill players too. Are we in opposition on something? Do you perceive some bias here on Wikipedia? Reply here. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 14:38, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It was simply a comment on the apparent way User:Dolovis created them, it wasn't contrary to your comment, it just simply followed on beneath. As for WORLDVIEW a few of them were Czech or Slovak national team players I thought? I could very easily be wrong. In any case it's inevitable that en.wp will give more weight to English-speaking world people in any field. There's no problem here, just an observation. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:00, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Articles about Vietnam
Hello In ictu oculi. Nice to know you. I'm Vietnamese. First, thank you very much for your work on articles, especially those about Vietnam. As I can see from those articles, you use many offline reference such as in Ðoàn Thị Ðiểm, Phan Huỳnh Điểu, Hoàng Việt. I'm going to help with some translation from Vietnamese but I know online references only so could you tell me how to find and cite offline ones. Thank you very much. Keep up great work--Morning Sunshine (talk) 10:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, Morning Sunshine, great to hear from you - nice user name. Yes I do have library and database access but on wikipedia I try very hard not to use database and only to use books which are available either through Google Books, Google Scholar or can be view at Amazon.com using LOOK. All the citations above in poetess Ðoàn Thị Ðiểm were found from online sources - public access without Athens password etc - or at least confirmed by online public sources. Phan Huỳnh Điểu, Hoàng Việt I have only just started work on. I am trying to improve sourcing on all Vietnamese composer articles. Great to hear from you. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:18, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

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Dynasty
The only guidance I can find in the MoS that's somewhat relevant is here:

Names of planets, moons, asteroids, comets, stars, constellations, and galaxies are proper nouns and begin with a capital letter (The planet Mars can be seen tonight in the constellation Gemini, near the star Pollux). The first letter of every word in such a name is capitalized (Alpha Centauri and not Alpha centauri; Milky Way, not Milky way). In the case of compounds with generic terms such as comet and galaxy (but not star or planet), follow the International Astronomical Union's recommended style and include the generic as part of the name and capitalize it (Halley's Comet is the most famous of the periodic comets; Astronomers describe the Andromeda Galaxy as a spiral galaxy). By analogy, Dynasty should be capitalised, but that part of the MoS is disputed - some would prefer, for example, that Halley's Comet should have a lowercase 'c'. I personally lean slightly toward preferring capitalisation, but style guides seem to be divided on the subject, and inclined to make subtle distinctions. Chicago says to use 'Eighteenth Dynasty' but 'Sung dynasty', on the grounds that 'Eighteenth Dynasty' is a proper name. Colonies Chris (talk) 19:25, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:08, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the articles on Trần Văn Cẩn and Nguyễn Tường Lân
Keep up the good work! Ebaychatter0 (talk) 05:58, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dougweller (talk) 13:55, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dougweller (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Buôn Ma Thuột city? Seriously?
Will you be moving Paris to Paris city? Kauffner (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Kauffner, given that (i) you moved several hundred articles contrary to result of RMs at Talk:Cà Mau, (ii) deleted RM notices, (iv) hid the RM results with IP edits, (v) made 600 G6 requests of unknowing admins and (vi) locked the redirects these are the issues that you should be addressing. But put in a G6 for Buôn Ma Thuột, I will not stop you. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if there was a reason for this move other than spite, but apparently not. This may suggest a need to review what WP:CIVIL has to say about edit summaries. Kauffner (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Why is it "spite" to revert your moves when we've had 3 RMs and don't want them? You should be reverting these moves yourself if you had any respect for other users' voices. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sir, could you please move Đồng Hới city to Đồng Hới? "City" is not part of the name of Đồng Hới in Vietnamese. Thank you for your contributions.Genghiskhan (talk) 08:10, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Vietnamese diacritics
I believe that I have done very few moves in these articles, and always in response to G6 nominations, which I have taken in good faith. I know no Vietnamese, although I do know that many or most PCs in the western world are not default configured to deal with them. I have absolutely no problem with anyone who wishes to revert my moves, and intend never to make any more within this topic!!!--Anthony Bradbury"talk" 19:53, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Anthony, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:07, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Pedro
See the talk page of the administrator who closed the move. Click here and you'll understand what is wrong. He clearly opposes the move and casted a WP:SUPERVOTE. He didn't act like a neutral observer who only came to close the move request. You should go ask him why he is ignoring the opinion of a vast majority and of Wikipedia's own rules. --Lecen (talk) 00:38, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I was taking a look at Move review and I can't understand it. I never saw something so hard to figure it out. I don't know where to begin with or what to do. Could you open a new move request, then? --Lecen (talk) 01:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't simply show Google results, but also provide links to Wikipedia rules about the subject under discussion. BTW, thanks a lot for your help, --Lecen (talk) 01:15, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. --Lecen (talk) 01:45, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Am I crazy or the editors who oppose the move are clearly ignoring what we are saying? We give them numbers, books, etc... and they still say that historians do not use "Pedro III". --Lecen (talk) 10:47, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, RMs are flawed, but the alternative is worse. I'd have thought most of those you notified that they need to revote will come back and make the effort. You did the right thing, and I believe that always comes good. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:31, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe it will pass. Qwyrxian is arguing the people who support the move but is ignoring the ones who opposes it. He isn't neutral and he has crossed a line sometime ago. Also, I didn't warn others of the move because I didn't want to be accused of canvass. In fact, because I warned some editors of the closing I was accused of canvass. --Lecen (talk) 02:22, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well WP:CANVASS must not be selective, I have posted notification to resubmit support/oppose to all who hadn't already seen it, regardless - in fact I didn't even bother to note who !voted how as I was clicking through. I have no knowledge of Qwyrxian's own view, and don't disregard his view on reference to guidelines, not least because, as Cuchullain noted, sometimes if there's more common sense in a RM than a guideline then it should feed back to the guideline. In this case however its a bit of a catch 22 in that if the guideline misses something important from another guideline (like WP:MOS) then how can someone refer to something not there. Anyway, we'll see, personally I don't care whether it passes or not, I was just helping out. And we do use English exonyms for many kings. It just so happens that in this case you're right, New Cambridge and so on do use "Pedro." Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 02:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You are already helping a lot and I really appreciate it. Thanks. Would you mind doing me a favor and making a search to look whther the name John or João is the one most used of Portuguese kings? There were six Kings with that name: from João I of Portugal up to João VI of Portugal. On all English sources I saw the name João is used, not John. WHen I search on Google "João" is also more used than "John". However, I'd like to hear a third opinion about it. --Lecen (talk) 02:50, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick GB from 1980 of John/João I-VI produces I 134:37, II 213:60, III 103:84, IV 50:27, V 28:65, VI 42:26 ... so it isn't the same case as Pedro. I suspect that may be because João is more difficult than Pedro for English speakers? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:07, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The pronunciation of "João" is almost the same as when you speak the French name "Jean". Not hard at all. I really liked what you said in here. It's only a shame no one will actually read it. There is no actual discussion on that move request. What is going on is that people are now writing more only to appease Qwyrxian. No one is changing his opinion. People are merely recasting their vote and pretending that they are having any real discussion. --Lecen (talk) 03:24, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Evidentemente, "João" não é tão difícil. Perhap's just that "Pedro" is known from both Spanish and Portuguese. For non-royalty of course sources (and en.wp) always use João. If what you say above is true, then it isn't bad, it's a lesson on how to act in an RM. Ideally 1 sentence citing a specific source or reason or guideline. If you take a look down WP:RM and dip in at random into other RMs, hopefully you'll see more than "ditto" as the reason. Saúde :) In ictu oculi (talk) 03:34, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for editing Nguyen An Ninh and Nguyen Thien Thuat
I really appreciate Ebaychatter0 (talk) 10:55, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Gilbert Chieu picture
It 's on Commons File:Gilbert-chieu.jpg. I hope  it is public domain. Ebaychatter0 (talk) 12:00, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

"similar" names
There are some examples, though they're not very fit. But hope they help.


 * The Vietnamese musician and songwriter Hoàng Hà (1929-).
 * A very well-known bronze drum of Vietnam is named Hoàng Hạ.

Another example: VNmese monarchs Lê Hiến Tông (1497-1504) and Lê Hiển Tông (1740-1786).

Sincerely. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Trieu dynasty
I saw Kauffner's move shortly after it happened. Your undiscussed move was less than ideal (even given the move over a year ago). But more so, this is an article Kauffner edited quite a bit, and given the dispute, your moving such an article looks like targeting. It's distasteful, to say the least. Gimmetoo (talk) 16:13, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh really, okay - I didn't see much editing, I just saw one article moved against the others in category. It's difficult to say "targetting" when all have been moved, but fair enough. If that's how it looks, point taken. Thanks for the comment In ictu oculi (talk) 22:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Other names
The examples that Михаил Александрович Шолохов mentions above are very ecellence. Actually, does it has to be same last and middle names? So far, and to my best, I suggest we might include these: Nguyễn Thị Doan and Nguyễn Hợp Đoàn, Bùi Diễm and Ngô Đình Diệm, Nguyễn Thần Hiến and Nguyễn Thượng Hiền; but this might not the case since they don't same last and middle names. ༆ (talk) 18:44, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, certainly near examples. I have added Шолохов's Lê Hiến Tông (1497-1504) and Lê Hiển Tông (1740-1786). Thanks again. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We must restore the article's name to Lê Hiển Tông, and for the link Le Hien Tong, we need to make a disambiguation page similar to Phan Thanh Hung. ༆ (talk) 02:24, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Morning Sunshine (talk) 15:01, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:Vietnamese name - homonyms
Sorry but I can't find any others now. I will tell you when I find it out. :) Violetbonmua (talk) 17:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Vietnamese sort values
FYI... you need to add the comma after the surname. It actually makes a difference. If there is no comma, the software treats the name as one big word. For example, "Nguyen Tran" and "Ngyuen, Hoang". "Nguyen Tran" is one word, sort is Ngyuen[space]Tran and the space causes it come before any Ngyuen with no space. So, "Nguyen Tran" will come before "Ngyuen, Hoang" in a list. The comma is required for all names with a surname. If there is no surname, then the comma can be omitted. The problem can be seen at [:Category:Vietnamese people stubs]. The first cluster of Nguyen's either have no defaultsort set or no comma. The second cluster has a comma in the defaultsort. I hope my explanation is somewhat clear as I can be confusing. Bgwhite (talk) 06:31, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bg, no I didn't know that. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:21, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

VNMese monarch
One small notes: since the time of Monarch Đinh Tiên Hoàng (968 - 979), the VNmese monarchs all called themselves "Emperor" (皇帝, Hoàng đế), not "King" (王, vương). The reason is: these monarchs wanted to prove everybody that they are the rulers of an independent "empire", not a "vassal kingdom" of China. However, since VN also wanted to maintain good relationship with its old nemesis (China), the VNmese monarchs did not say anything when the Chinese call them "king". After all, the ancient Chinese Empire always wanted to see Vietnam as an vassal of it, even if in name only. And the VNmese believed that "it is not shameful to avoid an gigantic elephant".

So, on my opinion, I guess we should not call the monarchs Lê Hiến Tông and Lê Hiển Tông as kings. They are not kings after all.

In VNmese, we usually use the word "vua" to call the monarchs. A "vua" can be king or emperor, or any kind of head-of-a-monarchic-state. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Sholokhov. Sure, I had noticed this but wasn't sure about consistency. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

In modern Vietnam, its vua Bảo Ðại/"King Bao Dai". Hoàng đế/"emperor" is a Sinification, and out of style in this age of plainspoken vernacular. If a primary source is written in classical Chinese, it won't won't use a purely Vietnamese word like vua. Kauffner (talk) 09:31, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Senegal River
Not wanting to clutter the Senegal River thread for others, I'd rather reply to your comments here. Permit me to be honest: I confess I did not immediately assume good faith when you came to the Senegal River page on the heels of the Peter I/II/III RM discussion. And the nature of your comments seemed so nitpicky and narrow (and absurd*), I actually thought you were deliberately mocking my pedantic demand for similar precision in the Peters case.

I say "absurd", because to me, it is something that I believed anybody with even the faintest awareness of Africa would have been aware of - from the regular run of a normal newspaper, as simple and common as knowing that the Thames is not spelled Tems or the Nile is not spelled Nil. But being someone with more-than-usual interest in Africa, I might have misjudged the extent of common knowledge about the geography of the continent. But needless to say, believing it so prevalent - and that even the simplest search would have cleared it up - I assumed that the only explanation was that you must be pulling my leg.

To be frank, I undertook the search not because I believe you comments merited it, but because I didn't want you to sabotage someone else's RM on my account, over a debate we had elsewhere. I still don't believe it was a good use of my time, I believe it is something you could have cleared up yourself to your satisfaction in a matter of seconds, certainly far less time than it took you to find those exceptions and compose your posts. And I'm still not sure why you didn't. But having done more than I think I ought to have, your comment "its a good use of your time" sounded to me like mockery, and I didn't take it well.

So, let me apologize for not assuming good faith. It may have been hasty and unfair of me to guess at your motives and read your comments in a way different than you intended them. So I'm going to refrain from guessing at your reasons, and assume you were earnest - even if a bit overly pedantic.

I will refrain from making comments on your comments there. And I ask that you please refrain from sabotaging the Senegal River RM on my account. Walrasiad (talk) 06:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Walrasiad, I actually barely noticed your comment which is why I ignored it. My point about the need for relevant search evidence was addressed to the RM poster, "@Hillcrest98 sorry but..." and he/she evidently understood the point. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

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Francesco Stancaro
Came across this of yours while looking for someone else (Bzovius) and gave it some attention. There seems to be much more, but he moved around so swiftly ... de:s:ADB:Stancarus, Franciscus I noticed because of a link (we now have project pages with all the ADB articles listed). Charles Matthews (talk) 19:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm planning a double DYK with the controversy article. I've expanded Francesco Stancaro, I'd be grateful if you could check it for inaccuracies. Something in the intro about the antitrinitarian opponent thing I'm dubious about in particular. Both articles appear very important actually to the Reformation period in Germany/Prussia, exactly the sort of content wikipedia should be attempting to document. Thanks for creating the article initially.♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:57, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Just saying to Charles the tremendous amount of work you've done on important topics, I say important as few people on here function like traditional encyclopedians and focus on the sort of content we should be focusing on! I've got the German ADB article in User:Dr. Blofeld/Translation sandbox, also asked Gerda if she can check it and I'll then see about adding missing content to it further. Warm regards.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:14, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Cool reference gadget
Hi there, I posted some comments for you on Talk:Joseph Inguimberty, but I thought I'd stop by here to tell you about a really cool tool you can get to format citations called "ProveIt" - just by setting something in your "My preferences". See User:ProveIt GT. It makes it pretty easy to have the citations completed in an easy manner.

Also, for google.books - you can get the bibliography information for the citation from the initial page for the book (very bottom of the page in the large, right-hand section. Or, if you did a query to get search results, from the left hand side of the google.books page, click on "About this book" and you'll get the initial page for the book.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have for clarification.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:06, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There's an even better tool for google books. Use this citation tool.  All you do is plug in the url and it spits out a wikiformatted citation. Ryan Vesey 12:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks both of you, I will try both and see which works out. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:23, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * That is a really cool gadget Ryan! I just used it and it's very fast and wonderful! Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:09, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

École des Beaux-Arts de l'Indochine
You're doing some great work related to the École des Beaux-Arts de l'Indochine articles: you're finding reliable sources and ensuring that you're not copyrighting the info which are two huge plusses. Thanks so much for all your hard work on expanding this interesting topic.

You were also very right to broach the topic of notability about the instructors at the school! Since some of the stub articles, though, don't really seem to be notable for an article, I moved them over to the school article. It may be, though, that there is more information found to prove that they are notable - for instance for have completed a number of works within a movement that received significant national and international attention. If so, all that has to be done is go back to history and bring back the previous version (before I redirected it) and expand the article.

In the short run, though, putting their information in the school article seems the best. The good news is that because of the redirect, anyone who wants to found out about these artists will be able to do so!

Great topic - I actually would love to know more about how Vietnamese art may have been affected by the French influence - and vice versa. Keep up the great work!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In response to your comment on my talk page:
 * In the second paragraph I was referring to the articles for Alix Aymé and Georges Barrière. Also see the notes I posted on Talk:Alix Aymé and Talk:Georges Barrière.


 * None of the information is lost, it's just moved to École des Beaux-Arts de l'Indochine‎ and much of it is in the "Notes" section" - as I had also suggested on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts for artists that weren't WP:Notable.


 * Does that help, or could I explain something more?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Alix Aymé for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Alix Aymé is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Alix Aymé until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:13, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I posted the following at the discussion forum: "More information: I see that there was information posted to the article that an exhibition of her work was held this year at John Hopkins University. That seems to be helpful information!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:31, 12 September 2012 (UTC)"


 * It's good if you keep an eye out on this, too, and post your thoughts.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:34, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I made some updates at Articles for deletion/Alix Aymé based on your edits. I'm not sure if it's enough to be notable, but it's a huge step forward! Any more - such as a list of her works, awards, exhibitions, etc.?--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:52, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Georges Barrière for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Georges Barrière is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Georges Barrière until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:39, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I made updates at Articles for deletion/Georges Barrière based upon recent edits. Anything more regarding awards, exhibitions, list of works?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Comment
I've nominated the Georges Barrière and Alix Aymé articles for three reasons:


 * 1) To begin a discussion about whether the articles are notable or not.
 * 2) To help you have a better understanding of what makes a notable article.
 * 3) Help you avoid putting a lot of time into something that could be deleted.

You did exactly the right thing by reaching out about this earlier - we may have just had a misunderstanding. For what it's worth, I've gone through this process, too - and have learned about this through this process, too. Some times I've saved articles once I explained why the article topic was notable - and sometimes I haven't because it just wasn't notable.

I'm happy to talk you through this by taking a closer look at the articles - and to make this process easier and not so stressful. Hang in there, the topics are very interesting - it's just making sure they're encyclopedic content. There may even be a way to roll the artists into a larger conversation like "Art schools in Vietnam during French occupation" or a similar construct. Again, here to help.

Please also look at the questions on the deletion discussion page. If you can answer why they're notable, I'll back you up.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:47, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello Carole. In that he's not a footballer? Honestly if someone wants to delete a painter mentioned in these sources then they are welcome to do so. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:59, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, you're funny! Well, you've added some good extra material. I provided the updates to the discussion - we'll see what happens.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:09, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Đỗ Minh Quân
I don't think Đỗ Minh Quân meets WP:NTENNIS guidelines. Here is his ITF link and ATP link. ITF Future wins mean bubkis. Also, players in the tennis world do not use diacritics, but that is about as close as I want to get to that subject. Some of the diacritic wars around here make the Israel-Arab "tensions" look quaint.
 * Hi BG, see Talk:Dominik Halmosi, the "English names" hassle should be consigned to wp history. But as for Quân, no as far as I can tell he doesn't, which is why there's only a WP:Vietnam tag. Per WP:WORLDVIEW he's notable in Vietnam - ten times national champ - as would be the most famous player of any major sport in any major country. Thanks for the note, and for all the industrious WP:Bio work. Sorry I sometimes still miss DEFAULTSORTs ;) In ictu oculi (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd loose reference #2 in the article as the win doesn't mean anything. I'd add the ITF link as an external link as it shows his Pro record.  Maybe add this link too?
 * This is a tennis article, so no diacritics per WikiProject Tennis/Article guidelines.
 * Oh, the diacritic war is still raging on. There was recently a blow up on Jimbo's page... I saw some major skirmishes on talk pages that were mentioning the war on Jimbo's page.  Another editor was recently topic banned from diacritics.
 * Why the Vietnamese kick lately? One good aspect of looking at the new articles is I get to read some interesting stuff.  I've enjoyed several of your painters.  It is also adding letters to AWB's diacritic conversion routine. Bgwhite (talk) 06:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The WP Tennis guideline no longer says that (click it), it was overwhelmingly reversed by an extensive RfC in March. As for that case, I think that's last sparks, nothing to take too seriously. Got down some books from the attic, that's all. Salad days. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 06:49, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Per the tennis guidelines, "Use common English spelling as found on the ITF website, the governing body for all tennis." The ITF does not use diacritics in Quân's case.  All I want to do is point it out.  I won't tell a person what to do on this subject.  This week, it was 9F or -13C about 50 miles from me.  So, the vegetables, for making salad, are gone around here.  I just sit in my rocking chair, think of my long gone youth and yell at editors to keep off my lawn. Bgwhite (talk) 06:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, indeed, someone either put it back or forgot to remove it, but the WP:TENNISNAMES RfC was overwhelming, followed by a series of RMs giving tennis players their own names and I think was the cause of the death of the issue. I haven't grown my own salad for years .. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Ngo Bao Chau
It's cool bro. I hope there are more people like you, who is willing to fight justice for people names. To me names are something that mean respect. If you're going to writing someone name, you got write it right or don't write it at all. I hope my support will help to establish this issue once and for all.Pendragon5 (talk) 17:53, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

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Diacritics
Thanks for the appreciative comments. I can see changing non-standard letters into their more familiar equivalents, so Dollfuss not Dollfuß or Heydar Aliyev not Heydər Əliyev. But when it comes to ordinary diacritics above or below regular Latin letters, I truly do not understand the fuss. They do not impair reading and they are supported by pretty much any browser nowadays. The "English usage" argument is nonsense: yes, not every newspaper will bother printing them, but academic texts nearly always do and have for a number of years; moreover, there is no reason for us to want to lower our level to that of a press uninterested in such matters. They also aid in pronunciation and avoid confusion if you know how to read the language. Take for example Dărmăneşti and Dârmăneşti. Free of diacritics, one assumes (even if one knows Romanian) they have the same pronunciation. With them, it of course makes a difference. I know I'm preaching to the converted, but it's just too bad so much time needs to be wasted on something quite obvious. This is actually one of the things that drew me to Wikipedia: I would wince a little when I saw "Brancoveanu" or "Bratianu" or "Marasesti", and it was quite refreshing to see them spelled correctly and in an English text. - Biruitorul Talk 14:46, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

HCM prize
Hi In ictu - I moved Ho Chi Minh prize again, leaving a more detailed reasoning on the talk page, but now I realize I should probably have gone through RM. Problem is, someone else has already commented. I thought I'd ask you your opinion on the best way forward. Of course, RM is only for controversial moves, and if my reasoning and examples have convinced you, there may be no controversy, and we can leave well enough alone. :) Dohn joe (talk) 17:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied on your page. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

In ictu - I don't understand. I made a page move, and left my reasoning on the talkpage. You reverted, saying it was an undiscussed move - but didn't respond to my reasoning, which was on the talkpage at the time you reverted (which is what I was referring to when I said my post was "ignored"). Instead, you came to my talkpage, asking if I knew it was "your" article. After a delay, during which I was essentially away from WP, but which I apologized for - I explained that I did not know this was your article, but asked you again to respond to the expanded reasoning I left on the article talkpage. I moved the article again, but, acknowledging that it was probably an error in judgment, I came here to ask your opinion on the best way forward. You responded by moving the page again (which I actually don't have a problem with in itself), and accusing me of targeting one of your articles, being in cahoots with some editor that I don't recall ever interacting with, and generally making things personal - all of which are untrue. Believe it or not, I don't have any bone to pick with you. I don't think you understand my position on diacritics, but that's neither here nor there. I've asked you to retract your false accusations at the HCM Prize talkpage. If you have anything to say in response besides that, please keep it here or my talkpage, and leave the article talkpage for discussions of content. Thanks. Dohn joe (talk) 19:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you seriously think that your behaviour here is exemplary? I did say I'd check your page for a reply, but would anyone expect someone to still be checking 10 days later, and the next thing that happens is a SECOND move? I could just about believe your claim that you arrived at the page coincidentally and moved the page without checking the page history the first time. But that isn't true the SECOND TIME is it? That was clearly as WP:POINTY as pointy gets. Now if you don't mind, as I said last time, I prefer to get on with more profitable things. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Look - I said just above that the second move was "probably an error in judgment". That's not a claim of exemplary behavior, is it? And of course I knew that this was "your" article after you had told me. But at that point I had already done research into the title, and put some thought into it - so why shouldn't I follow up on that? Especially when, from my perspective, there's nothing personal or any bad blood between us - there was no WP:POINT for me to make. Again - I apologize for the manner I went about this, but I'd also appreciate your apology for overreacting and not engaging on the actual issue. Dohn joe (talk) 19:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately your edit summary says what it says "(Dohn joe moved page Hồ Chí Minh Prize to Ho Chi Minh Prize over redirect: reverting undiscussed revert - please see talk page)" - no one seeing that would know that following your first move of the article I had created, I had initiated discussion on your own Talk page 05 September, to which 10 days went by with no reply. Now, I really have had enough of this. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:23, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a better edit summary would have been "(Dohn joe moved page Hồ Chí Minh Prize to Ho Chi Minh Prize over redirect: reverting substantively undiscussed revert - please see talk page)". Your post to my talkpage asked a personal question, unrelated to the substance of the move, which you still haven't addressed. Let's try to move past the personal issues you perceive, and move back to content. I've tried before to show you that I'd like to work collegially with you. I clearly erred here - what can I do moving forward to show you that I bear no ill will towards you? Dohn joe (talk) 20:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You can refrain from making any further undiscussed moves, let alone double moves, of articles I create. Okay? In ictu oculi (talk) 20:59, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Pont-l'évêque (cheese)
Talk:Pont-l'évêque (cheese)- Your bolding can lead to the assumption that there are two !votes sofar with one unsigned and you supporting. (Depending on page width of course) Agathoclea (talk) 07:29, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Page moves and musical chairs
Based on the comments on the RPP section, I think as you noted the lack of page protection on these pages is just an invitation for waste of time on "after the fact discussions" when someone boldly/suddenly moves a page that has been stable for many years.

I think we should make a suggestion on a relevant guideline page that:


 * If a page has not moved for N years (N = 3 or 5, etc.) then any move should be subject to a 3 day grace period, so it can not just move unless there is some discussion.

The mentality of "let it be moved, then discuss later", was OK 7 years ago, but with 4 million pages will just eat life like Pac-man. Moving a page is just an info page. Where is the suitable page for suggesting that? Thanks. History2007 (talk) 08:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. Yes, I think that is a good idea, and I also think this. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I suggested it here for comment. History2007 (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

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Chinese characters on Vietnamese articles
Perhaps you are not aware the issue of Chinese characters on Vietnamese articles has long been controversial, with Chinese editors adding them and Vietnamese editors taking them off. Even comprehensive Vietnamese dictionaries generally do not include such characters. (This is all I could find on the web, but I have also looked at printed dictionaries.) The Latin name of Alsace is reasonably well-known, but it is not included in the article's infobox. Kauffner (talk) 05:06, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Please point me in direction of said editor so I can discuss, thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 05:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * See here. Kauffner (talk) 05:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Generally, Chinese characters are acceptable if the place name is long-established, and their addition makes it clear that it's for etymological purposes only. DHN (talk) 06:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Đinh Ý Nhi
Hi there,

I was doing some editing on new articles and made some changes to the article. When I saw the edit conflict I thought I'd post it here in the event that there's something that you can use. Happy writing!


 * Đinh Ý Nhi is a Vietnamese painter who was born in Hanoi, Vietnam in 1967. Dinh Y Nhi graduated in 1989 from the Hanoi University of Fine Arts. Following a period of success with black and white paintings she moved to Da Nang where her works changed substantially. She defines her own style, rather than following cultural norms about what a woman artist should do, following the lead of artist Do Thi Ninh. For instance, rather than painting with color, water color or on silk, Dinh Y Nhi's creates works with white and black colored gouaches.

--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 07:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Lilith
Looking this up for fun I was puzzled by the lead which seemed pov, using the word 'However' and citing a person who seems to be a minor academic and isn't mentioned in the body of the text. I then discovered it was your edit. Now I haven't read Handy, but I found and better than that  which is more relevant to your edit and perhaps even a better source. I don't think Handy's view is clear in your edit, which could be read as denying a Mesopotamian source. Normally I would just charge in and rewrite, but as it's you I wonder if you'd like to do it? I found several 'however's' and a 2010 fact tag in a para that is probably pov if not OR. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 05:37, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Doug, by all means go ahead. I didn't have decent academic sources to hand when I was working on that. It's simply that Handy wrote the dictionary entry. In amongst the mountain of speculative 19thC copy (and drivel, Hurwitz) in the article most of it needs dumping and resourcing from 1980 onwards. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:57, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was fast. I'm not interested enough I'm afraid and don't have the sources. And somehow I got involved in fixing a whole walled garden of Serer related articles which were written by someone from the Serer religious pov. Dougweller (talk) 06:35, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Hoang Cam's Oven
I uploaded the photo to Commons as File:Hoang Cam cooker.jpg. Have fun. Ebaychatter0 (talk) 16:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Wikifact


The article Wikifact has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Neologisms are not within the scope of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia not a dictionary.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Tom Morris (talk) 07:56, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Belial (disambiguation)


A tag has been placed on Belial (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either
 * disambiguates two or fewer extant Wikipedia pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
 * disambiguates no (zero) extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Pam D  13:04, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Belial (disambiguation)


The article Belial (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Unnecessary dab page - can all be done in a hatnote. (If page survives PROD, then needs to be properly formatted as a dab page where there is a primary usage - see WP:MOSDAB).

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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dab pages
Hallo, When you create a dab page, as in this edit, please don't add the Category:Disambiguation pages directly, but add the dab or Disambiguation template instead. That way it doesn't then get tagged as a stub by later editors. Thanks. Pam D  13:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 9
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International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Hi, I'm translating International Standard Bible Encyclopedia to italian (it:International Standard Bible Encyclopedia). I see this edit of July, in which you write that the work was reissued in 1989 by Eerdmans Publishing. Looking on google I found no trace of this edition, but i found one made by Eerdmans in 1939 with some later repint (in the '50 and '90). It was a typo (3->8) or there was a new edition in 1989? --Yoggysot (talk) 15:12, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Labattblueboy (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Bro (instrument)
Hallo, Please remember that if you create an article with a disambiguated title, like Bro (instrument), you need to make sure that people can find it: an entry in the dab page at Bro in this case, sometimes a hatnote instead if there's only one or two articles at the name. I've added this to the dab page because I spotted it while stub-sorting, but it would be better if you did it while creating the article. Thanks. Pam D  07:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Redirect Lục huyền cầm
(...snip...) FunkyCanute 09:05, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * replied to talk, it's a redirect missing the REDIRECT command. Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 09:13, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 16
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Template redirect
Sorry - been busy as anything this week. Short answer: I'm not sure. Long answer: I'm not sure but I'll try and find out for you sometime today. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 13:56, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. Check out what I did here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject Musical instruments&action=edit
 * It's basically the same as an article redirect - just make the template pagename the "article title", if you will. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Request for an article?
Hello there! Most of the Vietnam-related articles that you created are translations from articles in vi.wiki? If it were true, could you expand article Early Lý Dynasty with correct spelling of "Lý" and with capitalizing "Dynasty". Currently, this page is redirected to Lý Nam Đế but I wish it will have its own article similar to in the vi.wiki. Cheer. ༆ (talk) 18:02, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well done, thank. ༆ (talk) 19:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

reverted archive edit
I've reverted your edit at WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive772 as archive pages are intended as a record of past discussions. If you feel addition comments are needed, please unarchive the discussion to the main WP:AN board before commenting. Nobody Ent 21:05, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 23
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Survey!
Could you tell me what is this survey Talk:Kanshi_Ram_Nagar_district, did he use any other template? I never this have this in my RMs! --Tito Dutta (talk) 21:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:49, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 9797 page views for the novel in September, 6643 for the film. That still puts things way, way, way, WAY THE HELL overwhelmingly in Tom Jones' favor if you ask me. Any other meaning of "Tom Jones" is barely getting one percent the page hits of the singer's article. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

RM reversions
''Just noticed that two RMs you took part in in 2010 were moved counter result/your vote in Feb 2012 and locked. Don't recognise other editors as still being active. Do you want to be informed of specifics or at this point is ignorance bliss? Otherwise hope you are well. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)''
 * Natürlich. Don't be cryptic.  Although I could use a little more bliss, please do tell.  — <span style="border:1px solid #000073;background:#4D4DA6;padding:2px;color:#F9FFFF;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em"> AjaxSmack   20:32, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 30
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Merge Trou de loup and punji stick
I think that proposing a merge as you did here without adding a section to the talk page with your explanation of why a merge should take place is less than helpful to readers. I think that such maintenance tags should be used sparingly and for a limited time see User:Shanes/Why tags are evil and this thread for more on the issue. -- PBS (talk) 12:31, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your civil message. Well I evidently at the time must have thought the reason was self-evident, but if it isn't then I'm quite happy to remove them, and have done so. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:35, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Lincoln/WP:WORLDVIEW
There are three points that you need to understand:


 * 1) You claim that I made 12, 13, however many comments opposing WP:WORLDVIEW.  Most of my comments don't reference WORLDVIEW/Systemic bias at all.  So that's kinda inaccurate
 * 2) You kinda skirted over the argument I'm making that keeping it a disambiguation page doesn't solve all WORLDVIEW concerns.  No, keeping it a disambiguation page is biased in favor of the U.K., and therefore doesn't represent a worldview.
 * 3) WORLDVIEW is neither a policy nor guideline.  It carries as much weight as if I were to write an essay Why editors should only edit underwater while standing on their heads.  In other words, since it isn't a policy or guideline, it's perfectly acceptable to ignore it

Have a nice day! p b  p  22:28, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making comment here rather than further on the RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:59, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Request move common mistakes and issues
Hello, I have started preparing a note on common mistakes and issues of WP RM. Please see this when you have time: User_talk:Titodutta/Essays/Requested_Move:_Ideas_and_Opinions. I'll copy paste this message in two more users' talk pages who are also active in RM discussion! --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * How about using RMs from a year ago, or two years ago, as precedents for numerous other moves and proposed moves that are only indirectly related? Or using a 3-2 project vote from three years (!) ago? Kauffner (talk) 11:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Tito. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

FYI
Talk:Facundo Argüello (tennis)

HandsomeFella (talk) 09:33, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 6
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Speedy deletion nomination of The Sky Above the Liberated Zone


A tag has been placed on The Sky Above the Liberated Zone requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a musical recording which does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, and where the artist's article has never existed, has been deleted or is eligible for deletion itself. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for music.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Dengero (talk) 05:33, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dengero (talk) 06:19, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Nhạc đỏ and others
I once tried to create this article under the name "Red music (Vietnam)", but it seems like I do not have enough knowledge in music, so I gave up :(. The article in vi.wiki does not have enough good sources, either. I guess I 'll have a talk with other veteran users. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 15:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Elie Rous
Do you have a source for POB? GiantSnowman 17:25, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:Wikipedia is not a reliable source. GiantSnowman 17:34, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not, depends who the editor is, but neither are sports websites. FWIW Montparnasse Noir 1906/1966: amours en contre-jour Page 170 Jean Digne, Stéphanie Suffren, Musée du Montparnasse - 2006 gives "Équipe de football du racing club de France, Debout : bas Elie Rous (entraîneur)" In ictu oculi (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Facundo Argüello (tennis)
HandsomeFella (talk) 17:51, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 13
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Disambiguation link notification for November 20
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Re: Near homonyms
I'd just founded another one Thanh Hóa and Thạnh Hóa. ༆ (talk) 22:46, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Berlin (London Road) name issue
Hello. I would nominate the Berlin Hbf article for renaming to reflect the reality-based community, and have been meaning to for some time, but I'm off on holiday shortly and I was worried about starting the debate off and then not being around to see the fallout. (I hope the railways accept my tickets when I go away: Eurostar, Thalys and DB all seem to have got the names of London Central, Cologne Central and Prague Central stations wrong, plus I can't find any of them in timetables, journey planners or books!) Wheeltapper (talk) 20:16, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 27
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Article talk pages.
Please do not alter other editor's comments to article talk pages as you did to my comment at Talk:Fritz Straßmann. Wikipedia takes such alteration seriously, and can lead to you being blocked from editing. I B Wright (talk) 12:57, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought you had simply misformatted it, sorry! In ictu oculi (talk) 16:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Martyrs' Cemetery (disambiguation) - please use dab template
When you create a disambiguation page, please do not add it directly to Category:Disambiguation pages, but use the dab template instead. That way AWB recognises it as an article not to label as a stub, and also it gets the appropriate footnote appearing in the article. I've fixed this one now.

Please also note that there is a specific format to use for disambiguation pages where there is a primary usage, as here - see WP:MOSDAB. Again, I've fixed this one now. Pam D  12:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * And rather than a free text "See also" hatnote, please just use other uses on the primary page. Fixed. Pam  D  12:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure Pam, thanks for the tips In ictu oculi (talk) 14:48, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Passione (song)
This is an automated message from MadmanBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Passione (song), and it appears to include material copied directly from http://italiasempre.com/verita/passione1.htm. If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) MadmanBot (talk) 11:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Libero Bovio died in May 1942, + 70 years = May 2012, so lyrics are no longer copyright. However I have removed just in case. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Hänssler
How do you see the relation between de:Hänssler Verlag and Hänssler Classic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, Thanks! I've reorganised and expanded the en. article and interwiki-ed them. You could move the en. article if you think it needs to be moved. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Video Artists International
If you would not object, this company is one of several that uses the name "VAI". For this reason "VAI" should be a disambiguation page. There is already a "Vai" page, so VAI should probably redirect there.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, thanks for notifying me of the move. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Classical albums by date
Category:Classical albums by date, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 09:48, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 4
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 * Luciano Pavarotti (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Katibim
I would like to remind you about a possible duplication. On 30 Nov. you have created Katibim. Thanks. But I noticed that the same topic has already been covered in Uska Dara by User:Ecoleetage. (You are awere of the article, since you have also contributed to it.) I hate to interfere with the existing articles personally, unless there is an obvious error. But somehow the duplication should end. (By the way, Katibim is the right topic, Usku Dara seems to be an erronously pronounced word Üsküdar)Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:31, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Nedim, yes but if you look at the second article you'll see it is "Uska Dara (A Turkish Tale) is a 1953 song by Eartha Kitt. It is based on the Turkish folk song Kâtibim". Eartha Kitt's 1953 version isn't a traditional performance of the Turkish song, hence it has its own article. Compare that with the original song:


 * She can't claim to have invented the song, so the original song still needs its own article. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 15:43, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 11
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 * Mercy seat (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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RM
Hello, I recently started a Requested move here, maybe you're interested. Moagim (talk) 13:34, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

talk pages
Allrighty, time to get the wet noodle out and whip your hand with....

WikiProject Biography is always the first banner. WikiProjectBannerShell needs atleast three banners to be applied (I use at four banners). Lastly, on all those Duke articles, a Duke was still alive, so living=yes in the bio banner. Bgwhite (talk) 22:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC)


 * That Kauffner continues his mass renaming articles with destroying Vietnamese diacritics. It seems like his ignorant position towards European languages' diacritics continues, so we will also continue to oppose his mass discrimination. Further, could check the edits of 75.62.135.62 because I think some his/her edits are hoaxes. ༆ (talk) 18:53, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I admit that I have another account but it's NONE of those that kauffner displayed in that Sock investigating page. ༆ (talk) 19:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Lai Chau province
Talk:Lai Chau province - it can be moved now, see my comment on the talk. NVanMinh (talk) 17:16, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Phan Huy Ích
Hello In ictu oculi,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Phan Huy Ích for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ff55ff 0em 0em 0.8em,#55ffff -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#ffff55 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#ffffff">Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 19:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Đặng Trần Côn
Hello In ictu oculi,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Đặng Trần Côn for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ff55ff 0em 0em 0.8em,#55ffff -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#ffff55 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#ffffff">Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 19:50, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

RE: Yig Mgo
Heya In ictu oculi,

It is completely optional whether or not to leave a notification about SPI cases with the accused users. In many cases, it can hinder the investigation if such notices are provided, so they are sometimes omitted. Generally this is left up to the person filing the case, but there is nothing to stop anyone else from leaving such warnings.

It seems very clear that Kauffner is not a first-time editor, hence why I have endorsed for a check. I do agree that it is not clear-cut as to whether or not he is a sock of ༆, which is why checkuser is helpful so as to clear the matter up.

Many thanks, SpitfireTally-ho! 22:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Đặng Trần Côn
Hello, In ictu oculi,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Đặng Trần Côn should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Articles for deletion/Đặng Trần Côn.

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ff55ff 0em 0em 0.8em,#55ffff -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#ffff55 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#ffffff">Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Removing Speedy at Phan Huy Ích
Hi In ictu oculi, you recently removed a deletion tag from Phan Huy Ích. ... (talk) 02:06, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoops, sorry my bot friend, mistook it for the other removable (orange) kind of tag on the actual poem itself. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Been removed by another ed anyway. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:32, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

ANI Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Hasty page moves and edits by User:Sawol. Thank you. VQuakr (talk) 08:24, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Stubs you created
Hi there. I happened to be stalking land on your user page by mere accident, and I couldn't help but feel amazed at the astounding number of pages you created. However, I realized that many stubs you created are not tagged as stubs with the appropriate stub templates. Don know whether it is a requirement or not, but just as practice, I suppose you should do so. Just a heads up and keep up the good job! Bonkers The Clown (Nonsensical Babble) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It isn't a requirement afaik, but it can be helpful - because it invites other editors to pitch in. The problem is finding/remembering the correct stub templates. I've just created a subpage /Useful where I was going to start adding template reminders. By all means if you know of a good comprehensive list you have my invitation to link it there. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:24, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Random award for you
It means in ictu oculi, blink of an eye. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:24, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Hằng Phương
....[ (New thread?) ] 12:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, article filled out. No probs. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Invitation
I will have to decline your kind invitation to oversee Vietnam provincial naming. I am pretty devoted to completing the Iran villages at the moment and haven't done enough research on whether Vietnam's provinces are different or not from other countries' provinces - as I prefaced my remarks in the conversation. The beauty of Farsi is that there are no capital letters at all! :-) Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:59, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Capitalization
I cant comment about this issue because I dont know more the rules here. Regards.--Cheers! (talk) 04:38, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Nộm
Hello, In ictu oculi,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Nộm should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Articles for deletion/Nộm.

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ff55ff 0em 0em 0.8em,#55ffff -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#ffff55 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#ffffff">Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:04, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Odie5533 (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Peter/Pedro
FWIW - WP:LEADSENTENCE & WP:BOLDTITLE are on my side :) GoodDay (talk) 07:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Your edits stand but please see Manual of Style/Biographies. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 20
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.


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Creating dab pages
When you create a disambiguation page (such as Semitic (disambiguation)), please do not add Category:Disambiguation pages. Please add the template dab or disambiguation. The template does much more than just add the category: it creates the footnote telling the read it's a dab page, and it also warns bots like MenoBot that this is a dab page, so that future bots or editors don't add inappropriate tags like stub and orphan, which in turn wastes the time of editors stub-sorting or doing cleanup.

This is the fourth time I've explained this to you (see above 5 Oct, 16 Oct, 30 Nov). Continuing to do something wrong when it has been repeatedly pointed out to you is disruptive to the encyclopedia. Please try to get it right in future. Thanks. Pam D  21:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry PamD, it may be clear to you but it isn't clear memorable to other users. I've added it to /Useful and will endeavour hard to remember. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Pangaltı
....Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. E4024 (talk) 22:18, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed quickly as inappropriate by Eastmain. Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 00:14, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Photo uploading assistance
I really need your help for an article I am creating Anti-Armenian protests in Istanbul. The article is regarding the anti-armenian hate rally in Istanbul on February 2012. I need to put a picture up. But I don't know the copyrights to them and licensing. The picture is included in the following websites. http://www.nationalturk.com/en/khodzhaly-massacre-protests-gone-wrong-in-istanbul-you-are-all-armenian-you-are-all-bastards-16707 http://www.focushaber.com/-hepiniz-ermenisiniz-hepiniz-picsiniz--h-115245.html http://yevaylen.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/hepiniz-turkuz-hepiniz-picsiniz/ Is there a way we can upload any of these pictures? I would greatly greatly appreciate it! Thank you! Proudbolsahye (talk) 01:34, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I'm not very good at the technical side, though I have done it once or twice. But in this case they look copyrighted. I think the best thing to do is to leave a { image requested } tag on the Talk page and ask Traveller100 or one of the experienced photo editors for help. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:39, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! No problem I uploaded them anyways. I want to thank you so much for your contributions to the Surp Agop Armenian Hospital page. I made a new page, Pangaltı Armenian Cemetery, did you happen to check it out?Proudbolsahye (talk) 05:22, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings!
To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Semitic (disambiguation)

 * When the dust settles around "Semitic", if there are then two titles at "Semitic people" and "Semitic languages", then there would be a place for a dab page at "Semitic". At present there is no place, and no need, for this dab page - it's more important to have a dab hatnote at Semitic, which I've just added. Pam  D  08:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, sounds good. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:39, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Jerzy Tabeau
Nice article and long overdue for us; thanks for creating it. SlimVirgin (talk) 18:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

...
Merry Christmas! History2007 (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Source
Do you have one single source you are using as a bible to add your "history" sections one Lord Mayors etc in the wrong articles. Please stop adding to the wrong articles and please add to more appropriate places such the article son the Lord Mayors of on the cities. This is getting quite irritating this conflation of posts and causing of unnecessary confusion where none previously existed. Sport and politics (talk) 04:02, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, WP:FORK, WP:POV, and WP:OR would all suggest that "Subject X" include reference to "Subject X" prior to 2012, unless there is a separate article "History of Subject X" which there isn't. I realise that the functions of the 1604 Mayor of Liverpool and the 2012 Mayor of Liverpool are different (the current one presumably can't behead people?) but your deleting of anything pre-2011 from the article fails WP:FORK, WP:POV, and WP:OR. I will see what appropriate forum exists. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems pretty clear the three disinterested users have all clearly stated their outright opposition and one has even provided an alternative venue for where you can stick the notable people who were once mayor. It is though fairly clear not to have a "history" section. Sport and politics (talk) 22:08, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

..
Seasons greetings to you and yours Dougweller (talk) 13:39, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Phrasal verbs
Hello Oculi, You edited the article on phrasal verbs a couple of weeks ago. You appear to have added a lengthy foonote. The information in that footnote is helpful, but it doesn't belong in a footnote. It should be, I believe, integrated in the main article, with a note pointing to the source that it comes from. I suggest adding that information to the section on "A diagnostics". You might rename the section to something like "Diagnostics for identifying types phrasal verbs". What do you think? --Tjo3ya (talk) 16:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for this note. I noticed the article in passing and was a bit disconcerted by a slightly WP:OR feel to some sections so decided the best thing to do was seed some grammar book chunks into the refs, as per edits you noticed. Looking again at the article I think what you propose might be one way of tightening the article up a bit, I'm still a little bit unsure about article's existing text - in the unsourced areas I dropped chunks of raw refs into. You seem to have a better idea of direction, so maybe you'd like to start and I'll follow up? In ictu oculi (talk) 16:44, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I will rework the main text when I get some time, in a few days. You can check that I get it right. --Tjo3ya (talk) 17:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

re: Merry Boxing Day
And a Merry Boxing Day to you too!  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 17:39, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 27
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.


 * Wave offering (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Category removal
Please stop Categories are to be applied to redirects from albums, per WP:ALBUM (cf. this. If you need to respond, please post to my talk or use tb. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:03, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "Please stop" is a bit of an inappropriate message for 1 edit. Category:Musica Florea albums is a dud category with no articles in it. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:51, 30 December 2012 (UTC)