User talk:PamD/Archive 13

June events with WIR
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging

The Signpost: 31 May 2019
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Disambiguation stuff
Hello Pam! I know you are a prolific sorter-out of nickety-pickety things: here's a question. I looked for the (American) composer Edward McDowell, at McDowell and was amazed to find him missing. But of course I had spelled him wrong, and eventually got to MacDowell. There are lots of these, McDowell, MacDowell, and McDowall. I think it would be kinder to add the alternative spellings at the top of the page, but I'm nervous in case there's some strict rule somewhere. And I'm not sure how to add the wotsit note at the top. Can you give me a clue? Thanks for seeing to my Anthony Goldstone article, btw. It was rather nice after putting it in place to go around filling in links from quite a few pages. Now I must add a note to the church in Alkborough in Lincolnshire, somehow the county that feels like I know it least. Brian. Imaginatorium (talk) 10:06, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Hallo : this is more WP:Anthroponymy territory than disambiguation, and that project used to be flagged as inactive but now seems livelier, so you could try its talk page. There are plenty of precedents both ways: I've had a look at a few Mc/Mac names I could think of and find:


 * Macdonald - inclusive
 * McMillan and McMillan (surname) - inclusive
 * McIntosh (surname) - inclusive
 * but McTavish and MacTavish are sternly "not to be confused with".


 * I'd favour a Mc/Mac joint list myself. McDowall with an "a" is different but deserves a "See also" mention. You could be WP:BOLD and combine them (and duck for cover), or you could use the merge template to start a discussion - I'd favour one article plus one surname article, probably at McDowell and McDowell (surname) as it seems the more used. Some surname pages list the variants all in one sequence (probably more useful to the reader), while others keep two or more lists within one page. The First Nations call themselves Mcdowell Lake First Nation, but Bing maps has MacDowell Lake and MacDowell Lake Indian Reserve. Good reasons for merging!
 * Glad you didn't think I was treading on toes to clean up Goldstone - I wondered, but it looked as if you'd finished for now and forgotten that little bit of cleanup after move to mainspace. And don't forget to add him to Goldstone (surname)! Pam  D  12:03, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! There's all sorts of odds and ends - I added him to the (front! of the) surname. I'll try to get back to this; bit frantic at the moment... Imaginatorium (talk) 19:00, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Future meetups
Hi, re what uou posted on the Manchester meetup page - the easiest way of finding out about future meetups is to put one or more of these on your watchlist: If anybody adds a meetup to just one of these, I ensure that it's posted on the others also. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 12:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Meetup/UK/Footer list
 * m:Template:Meetup list
 * Template:Meetup-UK
 * Template:UK Wikipedia meetups
 * Meetup/UK

Monisha Rajesh Article: Notable?
Sequence of Events: 1) Found a tweet that was purportedly from Rajesh, apparently calling for an "assassination of a President". 2) Came to Wikipedia to learn more. Did the tweet actually happen, was it actually made by Rajesh, etc...? 3) Read the Article, and found nothing notable (IMO) on the Author. She wrote at least one book and has "worked for" several "big name" news services.  4) Rather than figure out how to submit the Article for deletion, I thought instead to post here, to ask why you think this Author is notable and should be included in an encyclopedia. While not "new", I am still "developing" and would rather err on the side of caution, however I don't see anything notable about this person to justify having a Wikipedia Article. You've stated you enjoyed her book, and beyond that I can't see any reason to have a Wikipedia Article on this person. Can you provide some justification for keeping this Article? Thanks in advance.Tym Whittier (talk) 15:18, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think two books reviewed in reliable sources is sufficent for notability. Pam  D  15:21, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

July events from Women in Red!
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Twinkle and G11
When you have a user page or draft page displayed, you can tag it either for CSD or for XFD. But if you have already tagged it for MFD and want to tag it for G11, you have to go back to the user page or draft. You can't do it from MFD, only from what you have nominated for MFD. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:21, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter July-August 2019


Hello ,

More new features are being added to the feed, including the important red alert for previously deleted pages. This will only work if it is selected in your filters. Best is to 'select all'. Do take a moment to check out all the new features if you have not already done so. If anything is not working as it should, please let us know at NPR. There is now also a live queue of AfC submissions in the New Pages Feed. Feel free to review AfCs, but bear in mind that NPP is an official process and policy and is more important. Articles are still not always being checked thoroughly enough. If you are not sure what to do, leave the article for a more experienced reviewer. Please be on the alert for any incongruities in patrolling and help your colleagues where possible; report patrollers and autopatrolled article creators who are ostensibly undeclared paid editors. The displayed ORES alerts offer a greater 'at-a-glance' overview, but the new challenges in detecting unwanted new content and sub-standard reviewing do not necessarily make patrolling any easier, nevertheless the work may have a renewed interest factor of a different kind. A vibrant community of reviewers is always ready to help at NPR. The backlog is still far too high at between 7,000 and 8,000. Of around 700 user rights holders, 80% of the reviewing is being done by just TWO users. In the light of more and more subtle advertising and undeclared paid editing, New Page Reviewing is becoming more critical than ever. NPR is triage, it is not a clean up clinic. This move feature is not limited to bios so  you may have to slightly re-edit the text in the template before you save the move. Anything that is not fit for mainspace but which might have some promise can be draftified - particularly very poor English and machine and other low quality translations. Remember to use the message feature if you are just tagging an article for maintenance rather than deletion. Otherwise articles are likely to remain perma-tagged. Many creators are SPA and have no intention of returning to Wikipedia. Use the feature too for leaving a friendly note note for  the author of a first article you found well made or interesting. Many have told us they find such comments particularly welcoming and encouraging. Admins are now taking advantage of the new time-limited user rights feature. If you have recently been accorded NPR, do check your user rights to see if this affects you. Depending on your user account preferences, you may receive automated notifications of your rights changes. Requests for permissions are not mini-RfAs. Helpful comments are welcome if absolutely necessary, but the bot does a lot of the work and the final decision is reserved for admins who do thorough research anyway. School and academic holidays will begin soon in various places around the Western world. Be on the lookout for the usual increase in hoax, attack, and other junk pages.
 * WMF at work on NPP Improvements
 * QUALITY of REVIEWING
 * Backlog
 * Move to draft
 * Notifying users
 * PERM
 * Other news

Our next newsletter might be announcing details of a possible election for co-ordinators of NPR. If you think you have what it takes to micro manage NPR, take a look at New Page Review Coordinators - it's a job that requires a lot of time and dedication.

Stay up to date with even more news – subscribe to The Signpost. Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:38, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

The June 2019 Signpost is out!
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Signpost case
Hello PamD, as we have commented on similar topics in the ArbCom case, I invite you to read paragraph 4 of my statement, where I provided some evidence. This is because I expect to leave Wikipedia shortly, and I may not be involved in the ArbCom case further.  starship .paint  (talk) 00:49, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Librarian?
Apparently you're a librarian. I don't know if you saw WP:CITEWATCH before, but it might interest you (as well as WP:JCW in general). This Signpost article has more information on it. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:34, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Books & Bytes Issue 34, May – June 2019
 The Wikipedia Library Books & Bytes

Issue 34, May – June 2019  French version of Books & Bytes is now available on meta!
 * Partnerships
 * # 1Lib1Ref
 * Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
 * Global branches update
 * Bytes in brief

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #1—July 2019
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Every article has a pencil icon at the top. Tap on the pencil icon to start editing.

 Edit Cards 



This is what the new Edit Cards for editing links in the mobile visual editor look like. You can try the prototype here: 📲 Try Edit Cards.

Welcome back to the Editing newsletter.

Since the last newsletter, the team has released two new features for the mobile visual editor and has started developing three more. All of this work is part of the team's goal to make editing on mobile web simpler.

Before talking about the team's recent releases, we have a question for you:

Are you willing to try a new way to add and change links?

If you are interested, we would value your input! You can try this new link tool in the mobile visual editor on a separate wiki.

Follow these instructions and share your experience:

📲 Try Edit Cards.

Recent releases
The mobile visual editor is a simpler editing tool, for smartphones and tablets using the mobile site. The Editing team has recently launched two new features to improve the mobile visual editor:


 * 1) Section editing
 * 2) * The purpose is to help contributors focus on their edits.
 * 3) * The team studied this with an A/B test. This test showed that contributors who could use section editing were 1% more likely to publish the edits they started than people with only full-page editing.
 * 4) Loading overlay
 * 5) * The purpose is to smooth the transition between reading and editing.

Section editing and the new loading overlay are now available to everyone using the mobile visual editor.

New and active projects
This is a list of our most active projects. Watch these pages to learn about project updates and to share your input on new designs, prototypes and research findings.


 * Edit cards: This is a clearer way to add and edit links, citations, images, templates, etc. in articles. You can try this feature now.  Go here to see how: 📲Try Edit Cards.
 * Mobile toolbar refresh: This project will learn if contributors are more successful when the editing tools are easier to recognize.
 * Mobile visual editor availability: This A/B test asks: Are newer contributors more successful if they use the mobile visual editor?  We are collaborating with 20 Wikipedias to answer this question.
 * Usability improvements: This project will make the mobile visual editor easier to use.  The goal is to let contributors stay focused on editing and to feel more confident in the editing tools.

Looking ahead

 * Wikimania: Several members of the Editing Team will be attending Wikimania in August 2019.  They will lead a session about mobile editing in the Community Growth space.  Talk to them about how editing can be improved.
 * Talk Pages: In the coming months, the Editing Team will begin improving talk pages and communication on the wikis.

Learning more
The VisualEditor on mobile is a good place to learn more about the projects we are working on. The team wants to talk with you about anything related to editing. If you have something to say or ask, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) and Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:25, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2019
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IPBE
I've given you IPBE for a year. If you still need it after that, feel free to email me or the CU team :) TonyBallioni (talk) 19:44, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . Pam  D  22:45, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

For Nicky Moffat CBE.
See other articles like Susan Ridge, Sue Gray, Inga Kennedy. We don't state the Corps they are in and her full name is already shown in the first sentence. Thank You BlueD954 (talk) 04:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

About something
The birth date of Burak Dakak is 8 June but many other websites like Famous Birthdays has his birthday on 18 June. As I followed him on Instagram his birthday falls on 8 June. Please look forward someone can change his birthday Physo172 (talk) 10:29, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The one source provided in the article gives 18 June, so that is what the article should say. I have changed it to match that source. If you have a Reliable source with other information, please add that to the article. You cannot just write information which you have read on fan websites etc. This is an encyclopedia, not a fanzine. Thanks. Pam  D  10:43, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that the one source in the article is unreliable? (It gave a different height from the one originally in the article.) If so, we should remove it and propose the article for deletion as an unsourced BLP article. Pam  D  10:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Adding citation on Fatikchhari
Thank you for your reminder. I just created the Fatikchhari page few hours ago. I will surely and citations. Great Hero32 (talk) 13:08, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The thing to remember is that sources must be part of the article from the very start - I tend to write a first sentence "X is a Y" and then add a couple of sources right from the start which support the existence and notability of the place / person / whatever. Then expand the article bit by bit, using Preview to check, before hitting "Publish", so that when it first goes public no-one will be able to say that it's unreferenced, or that it doesn't at least assert something meeting notability (so it can't be speedy-deleted A-7), etc. But references should be there from the start: where did you find the population and the land area? Presumably not out of your head. So tell us where! If you create articles without references you may find them moved into Draft space.  There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia, but it's an interesting journey.  Pam  D  13:22, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

A personal offer
As I noted elsewhere, I have reasonable access to genealogical data, and my digging skills are reasonable for late 18th through early 20thC records. I am generally not overly hanging around enWP digging for people as I get enough at enWS, though if you need some of these primary source records do feel able to give me a ping if you want something researched. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:41, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Request
I find it is very difficult to communicate with you for the moment, please stop trying to review my work for the moment. Thanks. Shevonsilva (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If your work has traits that require review, a request for someone to stop doing so is not really reasonable without an alternative being in place. All people's work on wikipedia is open to and should be reviewed. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:48, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * believes in deleting conversations from their talk page before the other participant has had time to read the reply, but in the deleted post I see they assert that there is no problem with "Bootstrap is a free and open-source CSS framework depends on Flexbox.", and that "What is good English is depending on personal viewpoint." No, there is no reasonable viewpoint from which that sentence is good English: it does not make sense. Pam  D  22:04, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Article is no longer there, and, I don't really like to argue with you. Best Wishes. Shevonsilva (talk) 10:44, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Comment about Jennifer Hardy CK article
Hi there, I saw your message: "Comment: No reliable sources support the "CK" in her name, only imdb and a lot of social media ghits. Odd. Has she changed it? PamD 09:23, 29 August 2019 (UTC)" I sent you a reply but wasn't sure if you received it or not (I'm new learning how to communicated on Wikipedia). I did a few changes in the article on the 1st paragraph. There are no articles at the moment explaining why she changed it from Jennifer Hardy to Jennifer Hardy CK, but the name was used with "CK" in the National Post and NOW Magazine. Her name is also linked to the film "Spice It Up" that is up on Wikipedia and has her lead name in it. Let me know if I need to add or change anything to the article.

The Signpost: 30 August 2019
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oops

 * Note to talk page watchers: this is about Voyage of Greta Thunberg  Pam  D  18:01, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

You've just mischaracterized my editing in an edit summary. I removed GT's plans and the hoopla on the pier as off topic and you added back a bit about her intended length of stay. No problem, if you think its relevant to the voyage thanks for adding it back. HOWEVER... you characterized my editing as "Who cares" not "off topic". That makes me sound crass and mean and changes the meaning of my words. "Who cares?" is intended to emphasize we still need to add the impact of her voyage (since that's what makes it more than passing infotainment.)  The Who Cares was on an entirely separate edit. If you hadn't made the error of commenting on editor behavior in the edit summary (despite the wisdom of WP:FOC) you would not have made the factual error that mildly slanders another editor and impedes arbcom's mandate summarized here.

It's a really minor thing that I would ordinarily not spend the slightest time about. However, you keep crossing my path in ways that seem ill considered, and this post is to ask you to slowly and carefully think about things, especially collaboration and community and respect, when you disagree with me. I welcome the disagreement. I am prone to error and foolishness, like any editor. But I would hope to look forward to your constructive criticism rather than cringe expecting more haste and impatience. Thanks for reading. Your mileage may vary. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The "who cares" occured at the talk page identifiedin Pam's clarification note at the top of this thread. The pattern I'm describing is multi-venue and a matter of general editor interaction. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:33, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Dead end back on Twinkle
Per your request, dead end has been added back to TW. Cheers, SD0001 (talk) 04:53, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and for letting me know. Pam  D  06:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

New message from DGaw
It's not terribly important—but I think Sun Valley is indeed a stub. This isn't a judgement, only a description. A stub is any article that doesn't yet provide encyclopedic coverage of a topic, and is capable of expansion. This particular one is very short, only around 150 words, IIRC. The stub template invites interested editors to provide additional detail. For ref, Stub. &#32;--DGaw (talk) 11:55, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well, any article short of a WP:FA is probably capable of expansion. I reckon this article is what people would class as "Start" rather than a stub. But I think it's much more important to provide navigation, in this case by adding Sun Valley, Parañaque to the disambiguation page at Sun Valley, which I've done. (By the way, you don't need to use "Talkback" when adding a message to my own talk page: I get alerted automatically and I think that's a general thing, not a particular setting.)  Pam  D  14:22, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Re: not needing to use Talkback yeah, you wouldn't think so; was just sort of how it came out with Twinkle. &#32;--DGaw (talk) 14:52, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter September-October 2019
Hello ,

Instead of reaching a magic 300 as it once did last year, the backlog approaching 6,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.
 * Backlog

A proposal is taking place here to confirm a nominated user as Coordinator of NPR.
 * Coordinator

Why I Hate Speedy Deleters, a 2008 essay by long since retired, is still as valid today. Those of us who patrol large numbers of new pages can be forgiven for  making  the occasional  mistake while  others can learn from  their 'beginner' errors. Worth reading.
 * This month's refresher course

Do bear in mind that articles in the feed showing the trash can icon (you will need to have 'Nominated for deletion' enabled for this in your filters) may have been tagged by inexperienced or non NPR rights holders using Twinkle. They require your further verification.
 * Deletion tags

Please be sure to look for the tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. WMF policy requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.
 * Paid editing


 * Subject-specific notability guidelines' (SNG). Alternatives to deletion
 * Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves once more with notability guidelines for organisations and companies.
 * Blank-and-Redirect is a solution anchored in policy. Please consider this alternative before PRODing or CSD. Note however, that users will often revert or usurp redirects to re-create deleted articles. Do regularly patrol the redirects in the feed.

Regular reviewers will appreciate the most recent  enhancements to  the New Pages Feed and  features in the Curation  tool, and there are still more to  come. Due to the wealth  of information  now displayed by  ORES, reviewers are strongly  encouraged to  use the system now rather than Twinkle; it  will  also  correctly  populate the logs.
 * Not English
 * A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, and if they do have potential, tag as required, then move to draft. Modify the text of the template as appropriate before sending it.
 * Tools

Stub sorting, by SD0001: A new script is available for adding/removing stub tags. See User:SD0001/StubSorter.js, It features a simple HotCat-style dynamic search field. Many of the reviewers who are using it are finding it an improvement upon other available tools.

Assessment: The script at User:Evad37/rater makes the addition of Wikiproject templates extremely easy. New page creators rarely do this. Reviewers are not obliged to make these edits but they only take a few seconds. They can use the Curation message system to let the creator know what they have done.

is now patrolling certain categories of uncontroversial redirects. Curious? Check out its patrol log.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Problem entering a new book
PamD, you have been really helpful showing me how to do citations for a new book my daughter just published. I made the entry as you suggested and it came out looking GREAT! Exactly like the other entries. My problem is that Ronz reverted all my edits, I'm not sure why and I did send him/her a "talk". Perhaps you can help me understand what I am doing wrong. Here is the form you suggested and which I followed.

Tidying up request
Hello there, can you help me to tidy up this article with "unnecessary level of detail"? Thanks. flixwito ^(•‿•)^ 06:05, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * {ping|Veracious}} I'm not sure why you asked me instead of just being WP:BOLD and doing so yourself. But I've trimmed back some of the excess. Pam  D  06:58, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

re moving Draft:Csorvássy István to draft
thanks - would just adding a sentence be the correct way to request a translation then? I was hoping I could take a few easy steps and request a translate, is that even a correct thing to do around here? Blueberryfiddles (talk) 21:35, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The options are summarised at WP:TRANSLATETOHERE: Create a stub, or request article creation at WP:RA, or suggest it to a likely translator. Hope that helps. Pam  D  05:38, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

aha. cool. thanks again. Blueberryfiddles (talk) 12:53, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Madeleine Sauvé
Hello PamD. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Madeleine Sauvé, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: '''candidate für a notable office from a notable party. Consider merging to election's article per WP:ATD-M.''' Thank you. So Why  08:29, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems clearly to fail WP:NPOL, and no reason to discuss one unremarkable candidate in the article on a national election. I've taken it to Articles for deletion/Madeleine Sauvé. Pam  D  13:04, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * NPOL is a notability guideline and A7 is not about notability. However, her name is a potential search term and thus a redirect to Abbotsford (electoral district) where she is mentioned in the table is at the very least preferable per WP:ATD-R. Regards So  Why  13:08, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, but you were suggesting Merge, which implies adding content: I'm happy with Redirect, a different thing. I know A7 isn't about notability but nothing in the article is a credible assertion of importance, if one knows about NPOL: OK so I was cutting a corner. Fact remains that a student on a course has been encouraged to create a well-formed little article on a non-notable person, which is sad. Pam  D  13:21, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Have withdrawn AfD and made a redirect, but not yet removed AfD template or blanked article content or closed AfD ... Not sure about procedure, and on phone so not easy to check what to do! Next time I stub-sort a non-notable candidate I'll think about RD to constituency, just like RDing a non-notable primary school to location. Thanks. Pam  D  13:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No worries, I closed it for you. Regards So  Why  13:40, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Pam  D  13:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

October Events from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Books & Bytes – Issue 35, July – August 2019
 The Wikipedia Library Books & Bytes

Issue 35, July – August 2019 
 * Wikimania
 * We're building something great, but..
 * Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
 * A Wikibrarian's story
 * Bytes in brief

Read the full newsletter On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:58, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 September 2019
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:07, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

WiR stub contest
Hi there, PamD, and thanks for participating in our stub contest. I've just been checking article length and see that Martine Reicherts is still a touch too short with 928 characters or 148 words of running text. One more sentence would bring it up to the required minimum length. As I know Reicherts, I hesitate to edit the article but may I suggest you say "Luxembourg European Commissioner". Luxembourgian (which is unfortunately used in a whole string of categories) is hardly ever used outside Wikipedia while "Luxembourgish" is the language. The usual qualifier is simply Luxembourg (cf New Zealand).--Ipigott (talk) 08:35, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I find it a really weird concept that something can be too short to be a stub! I'm not sure about the whole idea of this stub competition. Do my other contributions this month, Jenny Sacerdote and Dervilla Mitchell count as stubs? Pam  D  08:44, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * And thanks for advice on the demonym - I meant to check as I'd noticed the category and the stub are differently worded! Pam  D  08:45, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Expanded and tweaked. Pam  D  09:03, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I see that someone else decided that Jenny Sacerdote was not a stub, though I'd tagged her as such. I hadn't labelled Dervilla Mitchell as a stub, but now have done so. Who knows? Pam  D  09:08, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I sympathize with your feelings but the consensus was that if we were to have a stub contest, there should be a minimum length. By all means list your other new articles as stubs but note that you cannot also include them in the de-stubbed section. You will see from the contest talk page that this has been discussed. Thanks also for your suggestion on how to display the stubs. It may be best to wait a day or two and see how things progress. In my experience, there are always a few teething problems with contests but it looks to me as if people are getting the hang of it. In any case, it's not difficult to move entries around if they are misplaced. My main concern was to make it easy for me in assessing the winners.--Ipigott (talk) 09:10, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Elizabeth, Lady Echlin
valereee (talk) 00:02, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Category:Saint Martin's School of Art
Hi, I have been looking at categories for universities in London and see you created Category:Saint Martin's School of Art in 2017. I want to know whether you think this category is still needed? The other predecessor bodies of University of the Arts London have their articles and academics and alumni categories contained in the appropriate subsections of Category:University of the Arts London and don't (seem to) have their own categories. Any other comments on the structure of "Category:University of the Arts London" would also be welcome. TSventon (talk) 10:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * There's a whole lot of categories for former students of the long-established bodies which ended up as part of University of the Arts London - see Category:Alumni of Central Saint Martins. I think I'd favour keeping these categories, but I don't know what the usual practice is for such a series of mergers. It's not like a linear sequence of name changes, as Saint Martin's School of Art existed from 1854 and Central School of Art and Design from 1896, with separate identities. I can't remember just what led me to create this particular category, though I suppose if I looked at my editing history around that date I'd find someone I needed to categorise... OK, I see I categorised Sarah Pirozek into the existing Category:Alumni of Saint Martin's School of Art and then created the category Saint Martin's School of Art with the edit summary "create new cat, to provide a better route to the existing Alumni category". I think it's still useful, don't you? I think most academic institutions which have "Alumni" and "Academics" categories have an eponymous category as a parent for those two (sometimes an intervening level of "people" too, but I don't see the point). How else would you navigate easily from the college to its associated alumni category?  Pam  D  12:34, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know you think the "Saint Martin's School of Art" category should be kept and my apologies for dragging up the distant (wiki)past. . I don't think it is needed as the main article and the academics and alumni categories are all in the "University of the Arts London" category and can include wikilinks to each other, but I don't think it is doing any harm either. Categorising merged institutions seems to be done on a case by case basis, but the other predecessor bodies have "academics" and "alumni" categories, but not eponymous categories. TSventon (talk) 15:46, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

HMS Phaeton (1848)
Hi, I didn't want Bbb23 pinged by putting this on their talk page. I'm the one who tagged HMS Phaeton (1848) yesterday for CSD, because at the time it was only a title. No content, no citations, and had been on mainspace for an hour without being edited. Glad you've recreated it! Schazjmd  (talk)  17:29, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages – October 2019
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Inside this newsletter, the Editing team talks about their work on the mobile visual editor, on the new talk pages project, and at Wikimania 2019.

Help
What talk page interactions do you remember? Is it a story about how someone helped you to learn something new? Is it a story about how someone helped you get involved in a group? Something else? Whatever your story is, we want to hear it!

Please tell us a story about how you used a talk page. Please share a link to a memorable discussion, or describe it on the talk page for this project. The team would value your examples. These examples will help everyone develop a shared understanding of what this project should support and encourage.

Talk Pages
The Talk Pages Consultation was a global consultation to define better tools for wiki communication. From February through June 2019, more than 500 volunteers on 20 wikis, across 15 languages and multiple projects, came together with members of the Foundation to create a product direction for a set of discussion tools. The Phase 2 Report of the Talk Page Consultation was published in August. It summarizes the product direction the team has started to work on, which you can read more about here: Talk Page Project project page.

The team needs and wants your help at this early stage. They are starting to develop the first idea. Please add your name to the "Getting involved" section of the project page, if you would like to hear about opportunities to participate.

Mobile visual editor
The Editing team is trying to make it simpler to edit on mobile devices. The team is changing the visual editor on mobile. If you have something to say about editing on a mobile device, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

Edit Cards



 * On 3 September, the Editing team released version 3 of Edit Cards. Anyone could use the new version in the mobile visual editor.
 * There is an updated design on the Edit Card for adding and modifying links. There is also a new, combined workflow for editing a link's display text and target.
 * Feedback: You can try the new Edit Cards by opening the mobile visual editor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Edit cards talk page.

Toolbar



 * In September, the Editing team updated the mobile visual editor's editing toolbar. Anyone could see these changes in the mobile visual editor.
 * One toolbar: All of the editing tools are located in one toolbar. Previously, the toolbar changed when you clicked on different things.
 * New navigation: The buttons for moving forward and backward in the edit flow have changed.
 * Seamless switching: an improved workflow for switching between the visual and wikitext modes.
 * Feedback: You can try the refreshed toolbar by opening the mobile VisualEditor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Toolbar feedback talk page.

Wikimania
The Editing Team attended Wikimania 2019 in Sweden. They led a session on the mobile visual editor and a session on the new talk pages project. They tested two new features in the mobile visual editor with contributors. You can read more about what the team did and learned in the team's report on Wikimania 2019.

Looking ahead

 * Talk Pages Project: The team is thinking about the first set of proposed changes.  The team will be working with a few communities to pilot those changes. The best way to stay informed is by adding your username to the list on the project page: Getting involved.
 * Testing the mobile visual editor as the default: The Editing team plans to post results before the end of the calendar year. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: VisualEditor as mobile default project page.
 * Measuring the impact of Edit Cards: The Editing team hopes to share results in November.  This study asks whether the project helped editors add links and citations.  The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: Edit Cards project page.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:51, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Grace Burbridge- thanks
Thanks for removing stub class, did not think it was enough in depth. Kaybeesquared (talk) 21:38, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

"WikiProject Indian cities" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect WikiProject Indian cities. Since you had some involvement with the WikiProject Indian cities redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:50, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

The shooting of Quintonio LeGrier by Chicago Police Officer Robert Rialmo
Hello PamD (talk), to maintain the many similar titles on Wikipedia, such as the "Shooting of ..." I thought it would be most apropos to maintain same title and lede. Please use the talk page for any discussions, and revert the article's title back to its original title, so other Wikipedians can agree/concur/disagree. Cheers, Eli Bigeez (talk) 19:02, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hallo Please always make a link to an article you discuss on a talk page, for the convenience of the talk page owner and any passing readers. I moved The shooting of Quintonio LeGrier by Chicago Police Officer Robert Rialmo to Death of Quintonio LeGrier, but agree that Shooting of Quintonio LeGrier would be better, and consistent with other similar topics, so have moved it again. I don't agree that the longer title is appropriate.  Pam  D  22:47, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * And on second thoughts have moved it again to Shooting of Quintonio LeGrier and Bettie Jones, as there were two victims. Pam  D  22:47, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello Pam, I agree, you are right, ... and yes, it does flow smoother. Thank you for your input and insight. If you wouldn't mind watching this article, in order for it to remain benign and affirming Wiki's neutral POV. Please help in corroborating this article, as I see your metier, like mine, is proper archiving. My idée fixe has always been to disclose the proper and truthful story. Currently, I am helping in writing the subsection of World War II's "Collaboration and Resistance," which you will find on User:Paul Siebert/sandbox. I am updating the references of the "Shooting of Q..."concurrent to this writing. Cheers, Eli Bigeez (talk) 00:28, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I'm not convinced that the incident is even encyclopedia-worthy: one shooting by one policeman who is then sacked: consider the number of similar incidents per year in all the countries of the world. But one way you could improve it right away is to change the various slanted apostrophes and quote marks into straight ones, as per WP:MOS. And just slow down and read the words you're writing: at present the first sentence isn't a sentence (should probably say "voted" instead of "voting") and the last sentence doesn't make sense ("the decision not to seek re-election."? "his decision" perhaps?"). But real-life death in Chicago is not a particular interest of mine, so I'll leave it to others to work on the article. Pam  D  07:16, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * And also please name and re-use references like those currently appearing as 4-7 and 9-10, rather than listing duplicates. Thanks. ... OK, I've fixed those, but please do so yourself in future, you can learn how from these examples. Pam  D  07:25, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello PamD (talk), I am indebted to you for your ongoing critiquing of the article. I was unaware of the way to properly cite the duplicate references, mia culpa, ... thank you so very much! I will now apply that toward the WWII subsection on Collaboration and Resistance (see User:Bigeez/sandbox). The "shooting" article recounts the events that unfolded in Chicago over the last three years; it ended up with the ousting of Rahm Emanuel from office. The police officer, Robert Rialmo, was the political fall-guy for the rest of the Chicago elites. The present mayor, Lori Lightfoot, headed that task force which laid down the new ground rules, and she sought Rialmo's dismissal. All the outside experts thought he was justified in the shooting. If you can add/subtract from the article, please do so. Your input is much appreciated. Cheers, Eli Bigeez (talk) 22:17, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello PamD (talk), is there a way to use the reference method you showed me when there is a frequent reference used, ALONG WITH the Google books url I wish the reader to see? In other words, I used many references in the World War II article I am working on, but I wasn't quite sure if I can still put in a link to the book from Google books, from where the reference originated. Can you see the article subsection and references in my sandbox User:Bigeez/sandbox)? I would in your debt if you would have a look/see on my sandbox, and critique it. Cheers, Eli Bigeez (talk) 15:59, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I've not done much with these sort of multi-cited books, but I think you might find useful Help:References and page numbers, Help:Referencing for beginners, and the documentation of Cite book. I'm not sure that "chapter" is usually used when it's a single-author book like Rein, but if you are using it then it's the chapter title, not the chapter number, which is significant, so "chapter=Collaboration in Occupied Europe: theoretical overview" rather than "chapter=1". Another approach is to find one or two WP:Featured articles and see how they have handled the references: if it's good enough for FA it's good enough. If you need to cite multiple pages from one book, then the sfn system seems to work better, giving the reader two lists: notes (eg "Smith, p3") and references (the books etc). You could include the Google books link to the book itself in the reference for the book, though wouldn't be able to link to individual pages: and I know there's a problem when you can only see a book courtesy of Google books and it doesn't have page numbers: not sure of the protocol there.  sfn seems quite useful too. There seems to be quite a lot of not-necessarily-entirely-consistent guidance available. I mostly create short well-sourced stubs, with a panoply of incoming redirects, rather than full encyclopedic articles.
 * I can't help but feel that the article on the LeGrier and Jones shooting is really just far too long and detailed: this is a general, international, encyclopedia, after all. Possibly the level of detail might be appropriate for a Chicago wiki, or a publication about police accountability, but not here. But I'll leave it for someone else to fall over it and comment on whether it's excessive: it's way outside my areas of interest. (Though I edit Wikipedia pretty eclectically, as you can see from my user page list of created articles).
 * By the way, when you write on someone's talk page you don't need to "ping" them in any way. And when you do want to "ping" someone,  is the simplest thing to type. (Or there are variations - see Reply to, which is the formal name of the template, but "Re", "Yo" and umpteen other names work too as explained there).  Pam  D  17:48, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

New message from BigDwiki
-BigDwikitalk 21:47, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

New message from BigDwiki
-BigDwikitalk 17:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Pipeage – surprised :)
Really? Blimey. Thanks, I didn't know that. It seemed sort of obvious to me that I should – I had better go and read up on this. Cheers DBaK (talk) 23:17, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess the idea is that the reader can see at a glance the title of the article listed in the dab page - the full disambiguated title. If there had been another HH, say Hutton Hall (Ambridge), it wouldn't have been particularly helpful to see them both listed with the link saying just "Hutton Hall". See MOS:DABPIPE for more. Pam  D  23:24, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yup and thanks. I think my problem is that I was seeing it from a different end – I've read the policy now and it does make perfect sense. I suppose that if I hated the article title enough, and had a viable alternative, I might do something about it but the chances of that occurring are not high! Have a good evening, or whatever, and thanks for your help. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Your Contribution to my talk page
I've seen this and I note that you have not added any similar comment to Dudley Miles. There is complete consensus on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Berwickshire,_Roxburgh_and_Selkirk_(UK_Parliament_constituency) that it is premature to add PPC's with no election called. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.33.185.122 (talk) 07:43, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * But no such consensus at Talk:Wyre and Preston North (UK Parliament constituency) or in the edit history of the article. Pam  D  07:56, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

NB reverted before seeing your message. Obvs can't revert back. Plus I still note that you are being partisan, in that you do not comment on Dudley Miles. It takes more than 1 to make an edit war. Personally, I feel that you and Dudley Miles are bein politically partisan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.33.185.122 (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser. -BigDwikitalk 23:57, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2019
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:East Grinstead Museum logo 2018.jpg
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:58, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

ANI report that may be of interest to you
Regarding misuse of automated tools: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. OhNo itsJamie Talk 23:05, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter November 2019
Hello ,

This newsletter comes a little earlier than usual because the backlog is rising again and the holidays are coming very soon. There are now holders of the New Page Reviewer flag! Most of you requested the user right to be able to do something about the huge backlog but it's still roughly less than 10% doing 90% of the work. Now it's time for action. Exactly one year ago there were 'only' 3,650 unreviewed articles, now we will soon be approaching 7,000 despite the growing number of requests for the NPR user right. If each reviewer soon does only 2 reviews a day over five days, the backlog will be down to zero and the daily input can then be processed by every reviewer doing only 1 review every 2 days - that's only a few minutes work on the bus on the way to the office or to class! Let's get this over and done with in time to relax for the holidays. Want to join? Consider adding the NPP Pledge userbox. Our next newsletter will announce the winners of some really cool awards. Admin has been officially invested as NPP/NPR coordinator by a unanimous consensus of the community. This is a complex role and he will need all the help he can get from other experienced reviewers. Paid editing is still causing headaches for even our most experienced reviewers: This official Wikipedia article will be an eye-opener to anyone who joined Wikipedia or obtained the NPR right since 2015. See The Hallmarks to know exactly what to look for and take time to examine all the sources. Would you like feedback on your reviews? Are you an experienced reviewer who can give feedback to other reviewers? If so there are two new feedback pilot programs. New Reviewer mentorship will match newer reviewers with an experienced reviewer with a new reviewer. The other program will be an occasional peer review cohort for moderate or experienced reviewers to give feedback to each other. The first cohort will launch November 13. The annual ArbCom election will be coming up soon. All eligible users will be invited to vote. While not directly concerned with NPR, Arbcom cases often lead back to notability and deletion issues and/or actions by holders of advanced user rights. There is to be no wish list for WMF encyclopedias this year. We thank Community Tech for their hard work addressing our long list of requirements which somewhat overwhelmed them last year, and we look forward to a successful completion. To opt-out of future mailings, you can remove yourself here MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:33, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Getting the queue to 0
 * Coordinator
 * This month's refresher course
 * Tools
 * It is now possible to select new pages by date range. This was requested by reviewers who want to patrol from the middle of the list.
 * It is now also possible for accredited reviewers to put any article back into the New Pages Feed for re-review. The link is under 'Tools' in the side bar.
 * Reviewer Feedback
 * Second set of eyes
 * Not only are New Page Reviewers the guardians of quality of new articles, they are also in a position to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged for deletion and maintenance and that new authors are not being bitten. This is an important feature of your work, especially while some routine tagging for deletion can still be carried out by non NPR holders and inexperienced users. Read about it at the Monitoring the system section in the tutorial. If you come across such editors doing good work, don't hesitate to encourage them to apply for NPR.
 * Do be sure to have our talk page  on your watchlist. There are often items that require reviewers' special attention, such as to watch out for pages by known socks or disruptive editors, technical issues and new developments, and of course to provide advice for other reviewers.
 * Arbitration Committee
 * Community Wish list

Not all of us belong to Mensa
never knew you to be so snarky. Excuse me for trying to make things a little clearer for someone who isn’t biologically oriented who might be using Wikipedia to get an overview of a subject for a junior high school biology paper. And oh Jesus, please, help this Mensa member, who by definition has an IQ that is at least in the 98th percentile, know what endemic means. Why the hell did they let me into the group? I must resign, my school must have forged my IQ test results. All those AP classes. All those people who never met each other who told me I am brilliant. Must be a vast conspiracy. Get Donald Trump here to straighten this out! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MensanDeltiologist (talk • contribs) 17:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I was genuinely puzzled as to what more context you felt Beeveria needed: it said it was about a moss, which gives it context exactly. Perhaps you could have put a clarify beside the word endemic if you thought that needed clarifying, or just linked it anyway. There are more appropriate tags like confusing or technical if that is what you intended to say. Pam  D  17:22, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Category:Health in Bristol has been nominated for discussion
Category:Health in Bristol, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 22:38, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Edit warring
Please stop edit warring. I refer you to the discussion here: User_talk:JHunterJ. --evrik (talk) 16:31, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

A survey to improve the community consultation outreach process
Hello!

The Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to improve the community consultation outreach process for Foundation policies, and we are interested in why you didn't participate in a recent consultation that followed a community discussion you’ve been part of.

Please fill out this short survey to help us improve our community consultation process for the future. It should only take about three minutes.

The privacy policy for this survey is here. This survey is a one-off request from us related to this unique topic.

Thank you for your participation, Kbrown (WMF) 10:45, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Monica Allanach
Hi PamD. I wanted to say thank you very much for all the additions you made to the Monica Allanach article, and for supporting it being kept as an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smokingduck (talk • contribs) 22:22, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Prospective candidates
Hi, I'm interested in the discussions about prospective candidates for the next general election. I started by creating a draft page for Mhairi Threlfall, an elected Councillor for Bristol City Council, as I had assumed was being a member of a "sub-national" office was notable enough. Quite fairly Dreamy_Jazz disagreed, and highlighted the issue with many old candidate pages needing to be deleted after the election (more info). I still think neutral information should be available for voters to make an informed decision, so I've been wondering, would there be a way for Wikipedia to change it's policy to allow candidates to have a page, so long as they are marked as such (maybe a tag that says they are a candidate, and identifies which election they are for), where an automated process could go though and delete all of the pages that are no longer required a few months after the election? Craig.francis (talk) 16:13, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * There's a long-established policy that just being a candidate is not grounds for notability, for any office - enshrined at WP:NPOL. Similarly, being a city councillor isn't enough either. If such a person does other things which make them notable - things which get picked up in national press etc, not just local press - then they can get an article under WP:GNG. A recent discussion was here in Jan 2019. If you search for "candidates" in the search box of Wikipedia talk:Notability (people) you will find more. Nothing will change before 12th Dec, for sure! Pam  D  16:30, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 36
 The Wikipedia Library Books & Bytes

Issue 36, September – October 2019 
 * #1Lib1Ref January 2020
 * #1Lib1Ref 2019 stories and learnings

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:21, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!
Hello,

Google Code-In, Google-organized contest in which the Wikimedia Foundation participates, starts in a few weeks. This contest is about taking high school students into the world of opensource. I'm sending you this message because you recently edited a documentation page at the English Wikipedia.

I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

From my own experience, Google Code-In can be fun, you can make several new friends, attract new people to your wiki and make them part of your community.

If you have any questions, please let us know at google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org.

Thank you!

--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Edits made...Sources cited
Good morning. I am requesting a review and approval. I was working from my phone (limited options) and now I am on the laptop. I am willing to make the necessary changes in order to upload a page. I had one before. Subsequently, it appeared that the updated information was not original even though it was my content. I am starting all over again. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lorijazz22 (talk • contribs) 16:58 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If you are the subject of Lori Williams (musician) then you should not be writing it. In any case any article about a living person will be deleted unless it has reliable independent published sources. Pam  D  17:12, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see there now some sources, but I'm not sure you meet the "notability" level. And please, as it says in the big green box on this page, give a link to any page you're discussion, and sign your posts: it makes it easier for everyone. Even on a phone, as I am as I type. Thanks. Pam  D  17:22, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

December events with WIR
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Draft:Underwater Domain Awareness
Hi. Sorry to bug you, but I don't really run in to too many issues like this. This seems to be a case of WP:OR (see User talk:Onel5969. Not sure how to proceed, could you point me (or that editor) in the right direction? Thanks.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 19:00, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes I see the problem. Clearly a WP:SPA, seems to be the only begetter of this specialism, too detailed and essay-like ... Or a welcome contribution from the expert in the field? Might be worth asking at the MilHist project? I don't do AfC, and have no experience of evaluating this sort of COI / OR. I'm very uneasy that he wants it kept in mainspace for his students to access (see edit statements), something strange there as his centre presumably has its own website.  Pam  D  06:04, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input. I'll ask a few of the more experienced editors over at AfC and see what they have to say. Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 10:50, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2019
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Orphaned non-free image File:Cover of Unfreedom of the Press 1st ed 2019.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Cover of Unfreedom of the Press 1st ed 2019.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:28, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Add my photo
How can I add my photo to my UserPage? Kitaab Ka Kida (talk) 10:37, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have no experience of uploading personal photos. I guess you just follow the "upload file" instructions to upload it to either Commons or en.wiki, and then add it as any other photo. But a user page is not social media and should be about your editing rather than your persona. Pam  D  13:27, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter December 2019


This year's Reviewer of the Year is. Having gotten the reviewer PERM in August 2018, they have been a regular reviewer of articles and redirects, been an active participant in the NPP community, and has been the driving force for the emerging NPP Source Guide that will help reviewers better evaluate sourcing and notability in many countries for which it has historically been difficult.
 * Reviewer of the Year

Special commendation again goes to who ends the year as one of our most prolific reviewers for the second consecutive year. Thanks also to and  who have been in the top 5 for the last two years as well.

Several newer editors have done a lot of work with CAPTAIN MEDUSA and DannyS712 (who has also written bots which have patrolled thousands of redirects) being new reviewers since this time last year.

Thanks to them and to everyone reading this who has participated in New Page Patrol this year.

(The top 100 reviewers of the year can be found here)

A recent Request for Comment on creating a new redirect autopatrol pseduo-permission was closed early. New Page Reviewers are now able to nominate editors who have an established track record creating uncontroversial redirects. At the individual discretion of any administrator or after 24 hours and a consensus of at least 3 New Page Reviewers an editor may be added to a list of users whose redirects will be patrolled automatically by.
 * Redirect autopatrol

Set to launch early in the new year is our first New Page Patrol Source Guide discussion. These discussions are designed to solicit input on sources in places and topic areas that might otherwise be harder for reviewers to evaluate. The hope is that this will allow us to improve the accuracy of our patrols for articles using these sources (and/or give us places to perform a WP:BEFORE prior to nominating for deletion). Please watch the New Page Patrol talk page for more information.
 * Source Guide Discussion

While New Page Reviewers are an experienced set of editors, we all benefit from an occasional review. This month consider refreshing yourself on Notability (geographic features). Also consider how we can take the time for quality in this area. For instance, sources to verify human settlements, which are presumed notable, can often be found in seconds. This lets us avoid the (ugly) 'Needs more refs' tag. Delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 16:11, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * This month's refresher course

And to all my talk page watchers...
' Season's greetings, however you may be celebrating. Wishing us all a peaceful 2020 both on- and off-wiki! Pam D  10:54, 24 December 2019 (UTC) '

Good luck
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px; " class="plainlinks"> 豊かな十年へようこそ/WELCOME TO THE D20s Miraclepine wishes you a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, and a prosperous decade of change and fortune. このミラPはPamDたちのメリークリスマスも新年も変革と幸運の豊かな十年をおめでとうございます！ フレフレ、みんなの未来！/GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FUTURE! ミラP 02:47, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 December 2019
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 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year elves}} to send this message

"North Bar disambiguation" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect North Bar disambiguation. Since you had some involvement with the North Bar disambiguation redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. DannyS712 (talk) 06:13, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 January 2020
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February with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 19:31, 28 January 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

"Move fast and break things (motto)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Move fast and break things (motto). Since you had some involvement with the Move fast and break things (motto) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Theoprakt (talk) 21:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 37
<div style = "color: #936c29; font-size: 4em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"> The Wikipedia Library <span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">Books & Bytes

Issue 37, November – December 2019 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * #1Lib1Ref
 * Wikimedia and Libraries User Group

Read the full newsletter On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:10, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Page
Is the page looking better on yours now?♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:50, 2 February 2020 (UTC) I've left it at the tech pump and said they can adjust what they want to make it compatible.♦ Dr. Blofeld  21:13, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no better. Pam  D  20:30, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Patrick J. Schiltz
I'm not really sure what to do about the edits that were added/reverted to Patrick J. Schiltz. I got contacted by the Clerk of Courts via my talk page and she said the judge approved the edits. But the citation they give (although there's only two for the whole article) leads to a log-in page. To me, it doesn't satisfy WP:BLPRS but I'm under the impression they'll just keep reverting. What do you think? Snickers2686 (talk) 17:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the editors need to be reminded about our paid editing and COI policy, and asked to suggest article improvements on the talk page with reliable independent sources. Could also point them to WP:AUTOPROB.
 * Or we could revert to the version of 22:52, 7 September 2019 which seems to be solidly sourced and precedes the COI editing (except for usefully adding a photo). ... Ah, I typed that before realising it was exactly the version you'd reverted to. Will revert again. ... Have done so and clarified the sourcing: in this version all content (even including date of birth) is supported by that single "FJC" source (which works OK for me, no log-in page, as do the other two sources - even though I'm in UK and they all seem to be US sources.) Pam  D  18:15, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer newsletter February 2020
Hello ,

The first NPP source guide discussion is now underway. It covers a wide range of sources in Ghana with the goal of providing more guidance to reviewers about sources they might see when reviewing pages. Hopefully, new page reviewers will join others interested in reliable sources and those with expertise in these sources to make the discussion a success.
 * Source Guide Discussion

New to NPP? Looking to try something a little different? Consider patrolling some redirects. Redirects are relatively easy to review, can be found easily through the New Pages Feed. You can find more information about how to patrol redirects at WP:RPATROL.
 * Redirects


 * Discussions and Resources
 * There is an ongoing discussion around changing notifications for new editors who attempt to write articles.
 * A recent discussion of whether Michelin starred restraunts are notable was archived without closure.
 * A resource page with links pertinent for reviewers was created this month.
 * A proposal to increase the scope of G5 was withdrawn.

Geographic regions, areas and places generally do not need general notability guideline type sourcing. When evaluating whether an article meets this notability guideline please also consider whether it might actually be a form of WP:SPAM for a development project (e.g. PR for a large luxury residential development) and not actually covered by the guideline.
 * Refresher

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 7095 Low – 4991 High – 7095

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WP:RM for move
Please use WP:RM for controversial move. Benhafeez1988 (talk) 07:43, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There's nothing controversial about moving a page to the form used in both sources, but as you reverted my move I've now made a request at Talk:Luis Angel Jaramillo.  Pam  D  08:59, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Aleksandr Petrovich Smirnov
Hello, thank you for improving the links regarding Aleksandr Petrovich Smirnov! :) Kind regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 10:18, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I was going through some redirects at WP:NPP and this one led me down a long and involved rabbit hole! But I think the various political Alex Smirnovs are now a bit better organised. Pam  D  10:20, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

appreciation
I want to thank you for your frequent and unfortunately necessary efforts to clean up drafts after I've approved them. I know I should do more myself, and it's unfair to ask others, but when I'm going through to clear the backlog, I try to move as fast as is compatible with actually checking notability and promotionalism  and basic copyvio, and it gets into a rhythm. I at least try to compensate by cleaning up after other people also as I work on things. (I usually don't try to fix completely, but to at least leave the article better than I found it.)  DGG ( talk ) 01:52, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, David. I come across all sorts of things while stub-sorting or otherwise, and fix what I feel like fixing at the time... adding "DEFAULTSORT" if need be, checking whether "Foo (xyz)" has a link from the "Foo" article or dab page, making redirects from obvious variations of titles, adding women to surname pages, adding missing reflist and whatever else comes to sight and fits the mood of the moment. There was a glorious muddle of duplicated categories on some recent page... that may be what triggered this note? But we all choose which contributions to make: I rarely add categories to stubs beyond those which come with L, but often add CI to nudge someone else into doing it. Between us all (well, most of us) we're steadily improving the encyclopedia. Clearing the backlog of drafts is obviously a key priority job (though one I don't volunteer to do): it must be very disappointing for a serious good-faith new editor when they are told it may be many weeks before their creation will be looked at and have a chance of reaching the public pages. Keep on with your massive contribution to the encyclopedia! Happy Editing.  Pam  D  08:32, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

New message from DBigXray
I forgot to ping you, while replying back so here is a TB.  D Big X ray ᗙ  09:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Sourced recommendations on the Patrick J. Schultz talk page
Hello PamD,

Could you please take a look at the recommended changes I have written for the Patrick J. Schiltz page? I believe I have sourced everything that needs it. Please let me know! Cristian at the US District Court (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll leave the editing to someone interested in American judges, but I've tidied up your post a bit. Whenever you cite a source you need to show what it is, not just the title. Pam  D  19:30, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

"Cerro Prieto geotherman area" listed at Redirects for discussion
You had correctly assessed that my original page named Cerro Prieto geotherman area was a typo and should have been renamed Cerro Prieto geothermal area. However, the the redirect discussion regarding this page appears to have closed saying to delete the page. In either case the page is not functioning properly. Is that because the page contains the information about the discussion page? Should that now be removed? OvertAnalyzer (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 March 2020
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Draft: Hatria Picena
Good day!

This is in regards to my Draft: Hatria Picena, which happens to be redirected to Atria, Abruzzo. Could you please explain further why it was being redirected? As far as I'm concerned, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londinium is the old name for London, and the page still exists, while Hatria Picena, the ancient name of Atri had to be redirected. Please, enlighten me. Thank you. Piero.hatria (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I redirected the stub Hatria Picena because its entire content was "Hatria Picena is an ancient name of Atri." and I thought that information would be more useful to the reader if placed at Atri, Abruzzo - I even expanded the information, from the source you provided. Londinium is a substantial article about the former Roman city on the site of current London: very different. Pam  D  18:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Good day! I understand. The thing is, I am actually going to add more details about the Hatria Picena. This is supposed to be a stand-alone page. Anyway, is there any way I could retrieve it again? Thank you. Piero.hatria (talk) 14:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I would like to request if I could edit the page and add relevant information to that one. The intention of this page is not to talk about the history of the town, but rather to talk about the history of the land itself. Thank you. Piero.hatria (talk) 15:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Of course you can over-write that redirect by making a new article at the title, but please make sure it has substantial sourced content, and make it clear that you are writing about "the land itself" (I'm not sure what you mean, but clarify it) if this is a different topic from the town. Thanks. Pam  D  16:03, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Kenyan cheeses


A tag has been placed on Category:Kenyan cheeses requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 17:04, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Thx
Thanks for picking up on OAP, some of my kids think I am one .... but luckily I know that they mean the Nigerian meaning which is "On Air Personality". Yep I was surprised too to see OAP undefined, but cannot fix everything. But we can try :-) Thanks for your help. Best Victuallers (talk) 10:09, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Cheese in Kenya
Hi there, in the interests of WP:BRD I thought I'd come discuss my reasoning for my edits at cheese in Kenya and see if we can come to an understanding.

My reasoning for merging rather than maintaining a standalone is that cheese is not a native or staple food in Kenya, and as written, the article essentially amounted to native advertising for Raka and Brown's - only one sentence, about increased middle class consumption, does not mention the brands. The poor level of sourcing reflects all that. Vice has no consensus about its reliability on WP:RSP and in any case that article is more about Brown's than about cheese in Kenya generally. The Africa News article is also focused on Brown's, with a little bit of information about cheese consumption in Kenya. How We Made It In Africa is a trade publication, again about a single business rather about than the topic generally.

I did selectively merge some of the content into Kenya, which you can see from my edit there. I dropped the mentions of specific brands as being WP:UNDUE weight for a high-level article, especially since the businesses don't have standalone articles. I also dropped the list of cheeses produced as being unsourced and undue weight to those specific brands.

Given the paucity of sourcing and therefore content, it ultimately makes more sense to discuss cheese in the cuisine portion of the Kenya article than having a standalone article. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:35, 3 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for discussion. I was alerted because the new category I had created was up for deletion as being empty. I think the article is useful and have expanded and edited it, with an extra source, to make it more informative and less like an advert for any particular companies. I hope you will let it stay. Pam  D  08:25, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I still think it's unnecessary to have a separate article that mainly consists of information about businesses, but I'm not going to press it if you have an interest in the subject and are willing to expand the article. The category definitely strikes me as unnecessary though - there are no natively-Kenyan cheeses, so it is inherently going to be a one-article category. No disrespect to your work, but I am going to take it to CfD. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:25, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Category:Kenyan cheeses has been nominated for discussion
Category:Kenyan cheeses, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:28, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Women for Refugee Women logo 2020.png
Thanks for uploading File:Women for Refugee Women logo 2020.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:53, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:07, 8 March 2020 (UTC) Thank you ! Pam D  13:22, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Civil parishes
I have created User:Crouch, Swale/England with some ideas/suggestions for dealing with the missing CPs and you're answers to some of these would definitely be useful. I know you often suggest GENUKI but I usually use Vision of Britain since that tends to contain more statistics about the places and similar but GENUKI does occasionally have info that VOB doesn't like more general facts (see the article on Upper Broughton for example), thanks.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:27, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

thanks
Bad mistake on my part thank you for pointing that out. JarrahTree 22:58, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

"Yatra (2018 filmm)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Yatra (2018 filmm). Since you had some involvement with the Yatra (2018 filmm) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC  678  15:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 29
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of fictional towns in literature, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page David Lodge ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_fictional_towns_in_literature check to confirm] | [//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_fictional_towns_in_literature?client=notify fix with Dab solver]). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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"William Bradford (disambiguation page)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect William Bradford (disambiguation page). Since you had some involvement with the William Bradford (disambiguation page) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:46, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Cambridge Scholars Publishing
Hello Pam

I note you are moderating this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Scholars_Publishing

I made changes for the following reasons.

The information is incorrect: Cambridge Scholars do not publish journals.

Cambridge Scholars is not a 'predatory publisher'. Wikipedia's own description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_publishing states that this would be " an exploitive academic publishing business model that involves charging publication fees to authors without checking articles for quality and legitimacy and without providing the other editorial and publishing services that legitimate academic journals provide, whether open access or not. They are regarded as predatory because scholars are tricked into publishing with them"

I would agree with the description, and it is a wholly immoral proactice. CSP do not charge for publication, and never have.

A source cited in the original post were from a blog site hosted by Professor David Kaye called 'flaky academic journals' and inviting anonymous posts. Agaian, CSP is not a journals publisher. Dr Kaye agreed to a statement explaining CSP's business model.

The second source was a derivation of Jeffrey Beale's list which is maintained anonymously, and invites anonymous and uncontestable accusations of predatory behaviour.

The Norwegian thing, I have no idea about. Never heard of it before.

CSP do not have a high public profile and there are (to my knowledge) no 'verified' sources except Companies House. There has been a recent profile on a Librarian information site, No Shelf Required, which i referenced in the edit. It is here: http://www.noshelfrequired.com/cambridge-scholars-publishing-doing-simple-things-well/ It's quite an informative piece.

I really would prefer not to play cat and mouse on this. I don't know the original author's motivation. I would hope he/she would have more useful things to do at this time, frankly. CSP is a responsible business with mostly happy authors, who continues to run its business and pay its staff. This kind of thing on Wikipedia - which is a service we all use and appreciate - is just damaging and upsetting to its authors and staff. We don't really care whether the post is left in its corrected form, or removed altogether. But baseless and incorrect accusation founded on who-knows-what motivation is not in the correct spirit of open information, in my view.

From one Leeds exile to another, with good wishes

John Notfamousanymore (talk) 10:25, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools
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The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. The goal of the talk pages project is to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. This project is the result of the Talk pages consultation 2019.



The team is building a new tool for replying to comments now. This early version can sign and indent comments automatically. Please test the new Reply tool.


 * On 31 March 2020, the new tool was offered as a Beta Feature editors at four Wikipedias:  Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian.  If your community also wants early access to the new tool, contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF).
 * The team is planning some upcoming changes. Please review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page.  The team will test features such as:
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– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

cambridge Scholars Publishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Scholars_Publishing
Hello again

apologies; I did indeed break the links, and was endeavouring to restore them.

A 'whitewashing edit' is a little harsh. I don't think it's fair or reasonable to use allegations from anonymous and uncontestable blog sites as sources with any citation veracity. Whatever grudge someone may have against the business, the allegation of being a predatory journals publisher is factually inaccurate. If someone wanted to say - in my opinion, not all the books they publish are all that good - fine, That's an opinion. Predatory is a slur.

As per my previous message - I can't see an inaccurate and deliberately damaging entry adds any value. By all means, take down the post, because, having looked at the guidelines for wikipedia, it does not seem to conform to them.

Thank you. I am a user of wikipedia, not an expert editor. I was asked by one of the CSP staff who were distressed about this, if I would have a look. I have tried to do so in good faith.

With best wishes Notfamousanymore (talk) 11:49, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Quoting Wikipedia guidelines:

"Stay objective: Talk pages are not a place for editors to argue their personal point of view about a controversial issue. They are a place to discuss how the points of view of reliable sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral. The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material.

Deal with facts: The talk page is the ideal place for issues relating to verification, such as asking for help finding sources, discussing conflicts or inconsistencies among sources, and examining the reliability of references. Asking for a verifiable reference supporting a statement is often better than arguing against it.

Do not bite the newcomers: If someone does something against custom, assume it was an unwitting mistake; gently point out their mistake (referencing relevant policies and guidelines) and suggest a better approach."

I am a paid advisor to Cambridge Scholars Publishing. The newly-created page on Wikipedia was brought to my attention by an upset staff member. I registered, tried to edit the page by taking out unverified and incorrect sources, and the edit was overturned. My edit was classified as 'whitewashing' although the original page was clearly placed maliciously. This seems unfair.

This is indeed my first direct experience of the Wikipedia 'community'. I am, to be frank, disappointed.

Cambridge Scholars do not charge for publication. They publish academic books, some of them from the developing world, many of which would not see the light of day at OUP, CUP or NYUP. What am I doing this afternoon? Talking to a PhD researcher investigating the experience of African scholars trying to get their work published. Why? Because there are structural inequalities which exclude many such scholars, unless they pay. They get a shot at publishing with CSP, and they don't have to pay. CSP pay their UK taxes, and employ people in one of the locations in the UK with the highest levels of social deprivation. Does that make them heroes? Not at all. But it doesn't make them villains, either.

It appears that legally contentious terms like 'predatory publisher' can be posted without verification, but removal of such terms creates a flurry. That's not right, and doesn't make any kind of knowledge commons. It's just part of social media babble. If anyone would like to provide evidence of CSP's 'predatory' nature, please do so, and I will unequivocally withdraw objections. Indeed, I wouldn't work with them.

The reviewer quotes are selective. It appears there were proofing errors, which is unfortunate. The reviewer also said:

"That being said, some positive notes must be mentioned. As a Western academic in TESOL/Applied Linguistics, I firmly believe that there is the need to create more spaces for voices from under- and unrepresented context. As it stands, we know far too much about ESL learners at Western universities; and we know far too little about non-traditional learners in global contexts. This book does an excellent job of creating just that kind of space."

If I were creating a positive picture, I might pick that quote. If I wanted to create a negative picture, I might select the quote which you did.

David Kaye's Flaky Academic Journals blogspot does indeed say that 'the journals do not look stellar'. It also features a front-page 'addendum in defense'. And, as stated, although CSP did indeed half-heartedly try to publish a few (poor quality) journals, they do so no longer. And ropey though they were, they were not predatory.

As I said, I'm disappointed by this experience. I was trying in good faith to repair unpleasant and hurtful comments, and I have not been made to feel welcome, or included.

Notfamousanymore (talk) 16:07, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Mansoor Anwar
This was the version when I categorized it. How about you read article histories a little more carefully? Thanks. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I was wrong. Fair is fair and I apologize. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

"Bhagyada balegara (song lyrics) wikipedia" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Bhagyada balegara (song lyrics) wikipedia. Since you had some involvement with the Bhagyada balegara (song lyrics) wikipedia redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC  678  17:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Cambridge Scholars Publishing
Based on your comments, I edited the site to this state: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cambridge_Scholars_Publishing&oldid=951502029

That was replaced as purported whitewashing by an older, which is defamatory and references rumour sites.

Is there a way to revert it back and prevent this kind of nonsense?

Harold Basset (talk) 15:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Discuss it on the article's talk page. I'm frankly weary of this all now: I did my best to create a neutral version of the article. I can't quite remember why it's on my watch list but think it was to do with some long-ago kerfuffle over a dodgy academic with a lot of spurious-looking publications and editorial boardships, and at one point someone had actually redirected "Cambridge Scholars Publishing" to the University or to CUP, erroneously. I've spent more than enough time on this already. You are " not in the employ of CSP", but you have only made one edit in 14 months before becoming very involved in this topic, and you aren't editing anything else at present, which is an unusual pattern of editing. I wonder what brought you to the topic? Perhaps a friend or family member is involved in CSP, or they publish your work?


 * But I'm moving on to more interesting topics like Sheriff of Newcastle upon Tyne. Having created the article for William Haswell Stephenson I found that he'd not only held the office but had sponsored a statue to commemorate 500 years of sheriffs, and we didn't have an article. Until yesterday. Pam  D  17:49, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Cambridge Scholars Publishing
Who I am is immaterial. This is not an ad hominem argument, it is a comparison of documented, objective sources versus undocumented, defamatory gossip. There is no reason to search for a compromise that can admit some of both. None of the latter bears any place in an encyclopedia.

Note that this article does not defame only the publisher, it also defames, by inescapable implication, the publisher's 6000 to 7000 authors. That can do real harm to real people. It can damage careers.

I thought wikipedia's editors had a mechanism to deal with articles that have been waylaid irresponsibly in this way. If not, they certainly ought to.

Enjoy writing about your sheriff. I myself shall not waste more time trying to objectify articles in wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harold Basset (talk • contribs) 13:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Who you are is material, because Wikipedia has guidelines about Conflict of interest and rules about Paid editing. The place to argue about the page is its own talk page. If a discussion there does not resolve the issue, you might read Neutral point of view and take the issue up on Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. Pam  D  14:25, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Tariq Ali (rear admiral)
I've removed your notability tag on this page. No matter how you or I might feel about its broad scope, flag officers are routinely held to be notable per WP:OUTCOMES and WP:NSOLDIER. Cheers Sulfurboy (talk) 23:12, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I should have checked how far down the scale automatic notability stretches. Sorry about that. Pam  D  23:20, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's absurdly broad. I die a little inside each time I have to accept one out of AfC that I know will be a one line stub in perpetuity. Sulfurboy (talk) 23:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Campillo de Deleitosa
Hi. I posted a reply on my page, just to be consistent and keep a single stream of conversation... Thanks for your help. Stevenmitchell (talk) 12:34, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

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50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week
Hello there. This is an invitation to join the 50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week. £250 (c. $310) up for grabs in May, June and July with £20 worth of prizes to give away every week for most articles destubbed. Each week there is a different region of focus, though half the prize will still be rewarded for articles on any subject. Sign up if you want to contribute at least one of the weeks or support the idea! † Encyclopædius  19:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Issue 38, January – April 2020
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"Roya Academy of Culinary Arts" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Roya Academy of Culinary Arts. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 5 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC  678  23:03, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Camlann/Andrew Breeze page contributors
Hi Pam  D. Unfortunately some of Morgain13's edits (non-COI author) on AB's page were taken out, so if you could please edit it would be good to make sure the page has different contributors so the COI banner can be taken off.. Also some additional text was added yesterday by Dudley Miles in AB and Camlann pages for neutrality. Thanks! Bioinfo 7 (talk) 22:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Replied to duplicate posting at User talk:Bioinfo 7. Pam  D  22:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 May 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

notifications
If you still need this and havent already noticed the change, it seems that it is now possible to hide notifications of page links to individual pages. Ive been interested in this feature too. — Soap — 16:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Brilliant - could you point me to how to do it? I've been getting a stream of emails from Maniphest but they are usually pretty incomprehensible and I don't always read them.  Pam  D  17:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It should be there at the bottom of the page at Special:Preferences.... type in the names of the pages you want to hide notifications for.  Im assuming that option does what we both want... meaning that e.g. I will no longer see when someone makes a link to a page that I created only as a redirect, but I will still see the links to more important pages. — Soap — 17:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks: found it. At last I needn't be told about it when someone adds the infobox which links to Districts of Russia, which I created as a redirect long ago but it got overwritten as an article. There are a few publishers I also don't want to hear about - little stubs I created long ago, which then get cited in references repeatedly. Pam  D  20:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Sri Jayawardanapura Kotte DS Division
Hi, I noticed that you recently created Category:Sri Jayawardanapura Kotte DS Division but unfortunately it's a duplicate of Category:Kotte DS Division. The current name is indeed Sri Jayawardanapura Kotte DS Division (as per this), but is there any way to quickly history merge the two categories or do I have to ask for Category:Kotte DS Division to be merged into Category:Sri Jayawardanapura Kotte DS Division at WP:CFDS (I don't believe the latter retains history)?--Obi2canibe (talk) 15:03, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I only created it to try to de-orphan the lower-level cat Category:Grama Niladhari Divisions of Sri Jayawardanapura Kotte Divisional Secretariat, which I've now proposed for a page move. I have edited that child category, so the wrongly-named parent cat is now empty and I've CSD'd it. I did wonder at the time whether they were the same place. We have an over-enthusiastic editor rushing along here creating various muddles: see Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents, and they have been blocked.  Pam  D  15:50, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

"La ( Town)" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect La ( Town). The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 7 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

About an issue
Hello how are you ? do you have telegram or instagram can we talk outside wikipeida please? Necati Omar (talk) 17:32, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No: use this talk page or the talk page of whatever article concerns you. Pam  D  17:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Boilerplate and snippets for UTPs
Hi, PamD, I was following the stub tags discussion at User:Elinruby's talk page, where you mentioned a "boilerplate" version of User Talk page messages you keep in your sandbox. I've been there, too. In my case, instead of my sandbox, I have a dedicated user subpage which I call my "Snippets" page, where I keep some cut/paste boilerplate as a starting point for various UTP issues. I was inspired by User:Diannaa's copyright snippets page, here, stole one of her passages, and since then have added various other ones of my own devising. Just thought I'd pass it on in case you were interested. Mathglot (talk) 08:24, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I find it useful to keep stuff in my sandbox, because there's always a direct link to it at the top of the page wherever I am. I spring-cleaned it recently, and it's got a lot of templates I occasionally use and need to remember the parameters for etc - you've probably been there and had a look but it's here anyway. Happy Editing. Pam  D  08:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK for COVID Symptom Study
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you,, but I only moved the article after the study renamed itself, and added a couple of references: it was who created the article and I was pleased to see that you've given him DYK credit too! Good to see it on the main page, anyway: it might help the number of users to crack the 4million mark (3,847,993 at the moment).  Pam  D  19:30, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It really cheered me up to receive the notification, and it's great to think that tangible and direct "good stuff" might happen. I was really pleased with the co-operation on the article, it's the good side of the community - it happens all the time but we don't talk about it much.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough  22:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC).


 * You're welcome both- I nominated it thanks for creating/improving. Now we just need to find an article for this month's meetup ;) <b style="color:#CCCC00">Joseph</b><b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b> (talk) 22:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 39, May – June 2020
<div style = "color: #936c29; font-size: 4em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"> The Wikipedia Library <span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">Books & Bytes

Issue 39, May – June 2020 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * Library Card Platform
 * New partnerships
 * ProQuest
 * Springer Nature
 * BioOne
 * CEEOL
 * IWA Publishing
 * ICE Publishing
 * Bytes in brief

Read the full newsletter On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

AfD closure for Deir
Hi! I thought that the suggested version was presumed to substitute the nominated one as no one opposed, so I didn't explicitly specify it in the closure rationale. Just wanted to clarify. Have a nice day! Juliette Han (talk) 12:05, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Happy anniversary
Congrats on 14 years PamD. Thanks for all your work here at the 'pedia. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 15:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you
I'd like to thank you for pointing out errors in the page. I'm quite new here and mostly interested in writing about writers and authors. I'll keep your suggestions in mind for future edits. Potatotic (talk) 20:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2 – Quick updates
Read this in another language • Subscription list



This edition of the Editing newsletter includes information the Talk pages project, an effort to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. The central project page is on MediaWiki.org.


 * Reply tool : This is available as a Beta Feature at the four partner wikis (Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian Wikipedias). The Beta Feature will get new features soon.  The new features include writing comments in a new visual editing mode and pinging other users by typing  . You can test the new features on the Beta Cluster.  Some other wikis will have a chance to try the Beta Feature in the coming months.
 * New requirements for user signatures : Soon, users will not be able to save invalid custom signatures in Special:Preferences. This will reduce signature spoofing, prevent page corruption, and make new talk page tools more reliable.  Most editors will not be affected.
 * New discussion tool : The Editing team is beginning work on a simpler process for starting new discussions.   You can see the initial design on the project page.
 * Research on the use of talk pages : The Editing team worked with the Wikimedia research team to study how talk pages help editors improve articles.  We learned that new editors who use talk pages make more edits to the main namespace than new editors who don't use talk pages.

– Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Ross Cowan
Hello PamD. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Ross Cowan, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Article is substantially different from the created on, edited by many different users. Thank you. Ged UK  15:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair enough:

perhaps a borderline case. Though looking at Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 64, I wonder whether any of that editor's creations, especially BLPs, should be allowed to survive. Draftification pending thorough fact-checking might be safer. Pam D  15:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer newsletter June 2020
Hello ,

NPP Sorting can be a great way to find pages needing new page patrolling that match your strengths and interests. Using ORES, it divides articles into topics such as Literature or Chemistry and on Geography. Take a look and see if you can find time to patrol a couple pages a day. With over 10,000 pages in the queue, the highest it's been since ACPERM, your help could really make a difference. In late February, Google added 5 new languages to Google Translate: Kinyarwanda, Odia (Oriya), Tatar, Turkmen and Uyghur. This expands our ability to find and evaluate sources in those languages.
 * Your help can make a difference
 * Google Adds New Languages to Google Translate
 * Discussions and Resources
 * A discussion on handling new article creation by paid editors is ongoing at the Village Pump.
 * Also at the Village Pump is a discussion about limiting participation at Articles for Deletion discussion.
 * A proposed new speedy deletion criteria for certain kinds of redirects ended with no consensus.
 * Also ending with no change was a proposal to change how we handle certain kinds of vector images.

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 10271 Low – 4991 High – 10271

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Lancashire parishes
We now have an article on Myerscough, a parish abolished in 2003. There are 10 current CPs in Lancashire without articles but there is also Lytham an unparished area that was left when Saint Anne's on the Sea parish was created. Its likely that much of the content of the Lytham St Annes article should be split to St Annes and Lytham and a summary left in the Lytham St Annes article. I will probably look to draft articles for those but its not a priority for me since those aren't standalone settlements but should still definitely have articles.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

"* Meadow Hall School, Lekki, Lagos" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect &. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 20 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:54, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Page Review?
Would you have time to take a look at this draft page? Draft:The_Octavian_Report LMK - thank you!

ORCommsGalKayla (talk) 22:30, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Ninthavur DS Division


A tag has been placed on Category:Ninthavur DS Division requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 14:25, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Kilometro Kupong Suggestion
Hi there,

I saw you tag this article for A10. Generally, A10 applies when the article is a duplicate of an existing topic, AND when the title is not a plausible redirect. Bearing this in mind, I gone ahead and redirected the article to Kilometre zero, as this is preferable to outright deletion. Please let me know if you have any concerns. Thanks! --Dps04 (talk) 14:46, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 June 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:53, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Jagdish Prasad Mandal


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Jagdish Prasad Mandal requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Fram (talk) 09:21, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Wing engine
Hi, Thanks for your help of the new Wing engine page. I've done as you asked and have disambiguated DAF and Sabb. In fact, I've gone one better and have created a Sabb page! It's very basic, but it's a start. I've forgotten how properly to do the "don't confuse with" at the top - perhaps you might correct it? Thanks in anticipation. Arrivisto (talk) 16:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Good stuff: the sort of rabbit-hole down which we all get led while editing Wikipedia. One thing leads to another. As Saab is confusible it's probably worthwhile to have that hatnote, though I've tweaked it to point to the company/group rather than to the disambiguation page. I think it might be better if to move the page to Sabb Motor, to be about the company rather than its products. Then it would be parallel to the Norwegian article and we could link the two. What do you think? Pam  D  17:57, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree; it would be a good idea to link "my" new page to the Norwegian one. Not sure how! In the interim, I'll reference it via a "See also". Cheers!
 * P.S. I'd like to use the Norwegian photo of an old Sabb engine. Any idea how I can get to it? Arrivisto (talk) 19:27, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've done a few things now:
 * Moved the article, and linked to the Norwegian and other versions (using the "languages" link in left margin)
 * Tweaked text a bit to make it about the company
 * Found update about company ownership, added reference
 * Upgraded formatting of your refs - have a look and see how to do it. Easy if you use the "Reference toolbar" option
 * Added categories (had to create the 1925 category, but OK to do so as it's in an existing hierarchy)
 * Added the image: if there's an image you want to use in another Wikipedia, click on it, and click for "more details" bottom right. If that takes to to an image in Commons, you can use it. Just add it in, and add a caption.
 * In the caption I used ill, useful thing called "inter-language link", which makes a red link with a little blue link to the other-language article on a subject, which will turn into a blue link as and when someone creates an article in English wikipedia for the museum.
 * Created the talk page, which will bring it to the attention of relevant Wikiprojects.
 * I think that was just about all! Hope you can see what I was doing and pick up some ideas for future articles. There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia but it's an interesting journey. And potentially very time-consuming, though with the fascination of an infinite jigsaw-puzzle: always something else to slot into place or tidy up. Happy Editing. Pam  D  22:35, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And having found and added the old company name of Damsgaard Motorfabrikk, I've made a redirect from that name too. Pam  D  22:49, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks for all your work! Arrivisto (talk) 11:02, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3


Seven years ago this week, the Editing team made the visual editor available by default to all logged-in editors using the desktop site at the English Wikipedia. Here's what happened since its introduction:


 * The 50 millionth edit using the visual editor on desktop was made this year. More than 10 million edits have been made here at the English Wikipedia.
 * More than 2 million new articles have been created in the visual editor. More than 600,000 of these new articles were created during 2019.
 * Almost 5 million edits on the mobile site have been made with the visual editor. Most of these edits have been made since the Editing team started improving the mobile visual editor in 2018.
 * The proportion of all edits made using the visual editor has been increasing every year.
 * Editors have made more than 7 million edits in the 2017 wikitext editor, including starting 600,000 new articles in it. The 2017 wikitext editor is VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode.  You can enable it in your preferences.
 * On 17 November 2019, the first edit from outer space was made in the mobile visual editor.
 * In 2019, 35% of the edits by newcomers, and half of their first edits, were made using the visual editor. This percentage has been increasing every year since the tool became available.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of ITRA


A tag has been placed on ITRA requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band or musician that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. —  Richard  BB  19:32, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I see it has already been reverted to the dab page I created, after being overwritten by the non-notable band you speedied. It's worth having a quick look at the history of an article before tagging for csd, as this sort of arrogant/clueless overwriting, or vandalism by gutting an article, does happen from time to time.  Pam  D  20:00, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Dominic Dipio page
" PamD, I am user Acwecacommunicationg who has created the page Dominic DipioDominic_Dipio and have since been editing it. I appreciate your close followup of what I am doing on the page and all the edits you have done on the page. I am totally new on Wikipedia and I have no motive of promoting anyone. Our team of 188 participants has newly been introduced to Wikipedia through the Visibility Project for East Africa organised by African Women in Media in partnership with UNESCO. The training just ended on 30th June 2020 and participants have been encouraged to create and edit pages. We had live webinars for a week, followed by another one week mentoring propgramme, and you can imagine how tough that can be for some people. I don't think I managed to grasp everything and that leaves me with yet a lot to learn. The organisers are in the process of reviewing the pages we have created, plus the fact that the page has already been nominated for deletion. But on the whole, I have been considering to link up with someone who will be willing to journey with me so that I can fully understand the workings of Wikipedia. I do wish to learn and continue volunteering my services for creating and editing pages on Wikipedia. I have taken note of your concerns and I have opted to delete the articles authored by Dominic Dipio. I included them not because I wanted to promote her but because I did not know. Thanks for your guidance and concern." Acwecacommunicationg (talk) 20:55, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Revert at Draft:İzmir Coach Terminal
Thanks for the revert. I completed translation from Turkish and I moved to main space.Ahmetlii (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 172 companies is in operate for transportation in bus station." is not good enough for an English language encyclopedia. Pam  D  11:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but it still needs more work: a sentence like "
 * OK, I see the problem, and I changed the sentence as "172 transportation companies are in operation.". Thanks for replying to me.Ahmetlii (talk) 12:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * No, it should be "... are in operation" or perhaps just "operate", but that wasn't the only problem. You might do better to concentrate on contributing to the Wikipedia of your own language. Thanks. Pam  D  13:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. However, I surprised about how I did this mistake. Maybe, I should not concentrate Wikipedia too much (I'm doing a lot of edits in a bunch of wikis) rather than focus on my language, I think. Again, thanks for the message.Ahmetlii (talk) 14:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thanks, I'm glad to help. There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia but it's an interesting journey! Pam D  05:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Okonite Flags
What will you find acceptable to remove the tags? Will additional sections proving 'notability' be required? What will you accept as proof that the company description is 'verifiable and neutral'? Maxwell1878 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Have a look at WP:NCORP. It centres on "significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources". All the sources at present come from the company: if no-one else has written anything about it, it may not be suitable to have a Wikipedia article.  Pam  D  20:03, 7 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the document reference. Looking at ABB_ as an example of a corporate page without the issue flags, I interpret that, by scope and size of the pages, Okonite will need 2 independent, verifiable and nontrivial sources to prove notability?


 * Please remember to sign your posts on any talk page. There is no set formula for the number of independent sources, but non-zero would be a good start. I see that you are an "Engineering professsional in the wire and cable industry": do you work for Okonite or have a close connection to it? If so, please read and note WP:COI, especially if you are editing as part of your paid employment. Thanks. Pam  D  11:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * So, your opinion is that the page should be deleted?Maxwell1878 (talk) 12:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking at it again, yes, probably. It was created by a sock-puppet who created a flood of inaccurate articles, only saved from G5 speedy deletion (as created by a blocked editor and not substantially edited by others) by the fact that you'd edited it last year, but now you aren't saying you don't have COI, and you haven't suggested any reliable sources. When I googled I found an interesting asbestos-related lawsuit but little else. Pam  D  14:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. I was not involved in the editing of Wikipedia until I found this article. I do work for the company and was not aware of the WP:COI guidelines until you presented them to me. By their ruling I should have only suggested changes on the talk page and not edited the page directly. At the time I would have left the article alone except that its information was grossly inaccurate. I tried to rewrite the page in a way that was factual and neutral, I hope that I was successful.
 * The lack of publicity when googling the company is in part due to a desire to maintain a low profile. wire and cable is not an inherently exciting product, however, I would argue that it is an essential component to human society, some proof of this being that we would not be having this conversation without thousands upon thousands of miles of cable to connect us, some of which is undoubtedly manufactured by Okonite.
 * Two other articles besides the one youve mentioned that may show some notability are: https://thetandd.com/news/rewiring-ground-zero-orangeburg-industry-plays-key-role-in-fast-track-repair-plan-in-new/article_8457359d-fbdd-5969-8cd8-a88151010761.html, http://www.pgecurrents.com/2013/10/29/award-winning-supplier-provides-pge-with-reliable-electric-cable/ . This source is neutral and reliable to disclose existence of the company, I have seen other pages make similar references https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/2349T:US. In terms of the history we do have some old news paper sources that reveal the creation of the company.
 * Lastly can you reference the procedure for removal of an article? Are you the sole judge in this process?  Maxwell1878 (talk) 15:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * (only just spotted the significance of 1878!), I can't access the two articles you list above, probably because I'm outside the US, but Bloomberg is used in many articles. But as for removal - any editor can propose an article for deletion, but only an admin (which I'm not) can actually deleted it, in three categories: "Speedy deletion" if it fits some tightly-drawn criteria; "Proposed deletion" if it has been proposed for deletion for a week; "Articles for Deletion" if it has been discussed at the WP:AfD pages. The article is linked from several others, so perhaps it ought to exist. I'll tweak it a little now. Thanks. Editing Wikipedia can be completely bewildering to those coming at it for the first time, with all the rules, policies, and ways of doing things.  Pam  D  10:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Spent far too long on that (lockdown plus retirement!), but managed to find a source for John as founder (not mentioned on the company website). Added logo too. The prose is a bit clunky, but not a bad little article. Pam  D  11:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * And looking further down the google hits for "john cheever okonite" I've now found detailed company history... but must get on with other stuff so have added it as "Further reading". Pam  D  11:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

FAR/AIM
This might better be a redirect to aviation acronyms, but I was not familiar with that tradition. FAR/AIM should be an entity that can be resolved to both articles. —§—0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 10:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems to be one supplier's code for a bundle of regulatory publications relating to two countries: is that really encyclopedic? Pam  D  11:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Federal Aviation Regulations
 * Aeronautical Information Manual
 * Are two related but separate documents and both are required by all US pilots
 * 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 18:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * FAR/AIM now a redirect to List of aviation, aerospace and aeronautical abbreviations
 * 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 18:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 18:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Your CSS hides content
Your CSS hides content——§——§——§——§——0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 10:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the green bar at the bottom? I've found it a problem occasionally but nothing as bad as some people's talk pages! Pam  D  11:33, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It hides the last line of the latest, new section. I am not criticizing your usage, just encouraging you to fix it, so that it does not create unintended effects. —§—0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 18:54, 18 July 2020 (UTC) —§—
 * It seems to be one line of text, but can display as two lines of text causing problems —§—0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 19:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC) —§—
 * It seems to be an overlay, and impedes usage of User talk:PamD overall, and the footer is redundant. —§—0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC) —§—

It doesn't seem to me to hide any content, at least not when i view it in Firefox on a desktop. What content do you think it is hiding, and how is it impeding usage? I don't have a problem with it. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC) I see, if the viewing wi8ndow is narrow enough, it hides pert of the "categories" line, but since there are no cats on this page that doesn't much matter IMO. Perhaps it is different on mobile? DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:45, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Agreed, it’s not a huge deal.
 * I see the effect on iOS 12 Safari, desktop site, Timeless skin, 9.7" iPad: happens in portrait but not landscape orientation. (Haven’t tried other combinations.)  The green bar sits well above categories (HotCat) and over most of the last content line.
 * Unfortunately, being an iPad, one does not simply hit F12 and see what's going on (nor walk into Mordor). Plus I'm not a CSS wizard.  It probably has something to do with the green message wrapping to two lines when the viewport is narrow.  Sorry I can’t be of more help right now.
 * — Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (21:39 Sun 19, AEST) 11:39, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Tagging of Suzy Lu
I recently removed a speedy delete tag that you had placed on Suzy Lu. I do not think that Suzy Lu fits any of the speedy deletion criteria because '''There are several claims of  significance here including the (sourced) scandals. An Afd might have a different result.'''. If you wish, you may try using the simple proposed deletion (PROD) process, or the full articles for deletion (AfD) process, instead. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 20:30, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, in future when placing a speedy deletion tag, please mention this explicitly in the edit summery rather than using one such as "stubsort, etc". Thanks. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 20:30, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Not my speedy: please check more carefully before telling me what I'm doing wrong. There's a clear speedy nomination earlier in the edit history. I stub-sorted etc as per my edit summary. Pam  D  21:19, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my error, not sure how I misread the history. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:10, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Shearwater III
Thank you for your significant improvements to 'my' stub original. It's great when an article attracts other editors. Fiddle  Faddle  10:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's fun isn't it. Stub-sorting can lead me off into all sorts of interesting time-sinks! It was the unlinked red link for Shearwater I in the Shearwater dab page which led me into it all. I was delighted to be able to connect the two Olympians, and edited their articles too. I do wonder whether the company (G. Prout & Sons, later Prout Brothers, absorbed into... something else later) needs its own article, with incoming links from variations of its name. But today I ought to be doing other Real Life stuff. Pam  D  11:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I may have a crack at the Prout firm later. I need to be int he real world today though. I know they went bust at some point, but all Essex boatbuilders seem to do that Fiddle   Faddle  11:18, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * My real world has been delayed. G. Prout & Sons may still be the redirect when you read this or User:Timtrent/G. Prout and Sons may have been moved into place over it. It's a bit sketchy still, but, with luck, others will play with it. Defunct companies can be hard Fiddle   Faddle  13:18, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Stub sorting
Hello, I noticed you do a lot of manual stub sorting. You might find the gadget User:SD0001/StubSorter useful as it makes the process quicker. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:00, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

A886 road
Hi PamD

Could you tell me or change the page in Wikimedia from "A886 road (Scotland) to match the article, "A886 road"? RegardsLITTLE LUGS (talk) 07:46, 31 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. There is media for the road, however it is listed under "A866 road (Scotland)"  is there a way to connect the two?LITTLE LUGS (talk) 09:20, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Just to note that resolves the warning mentioned in the edit summary at. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:37, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 2 August 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Isabelle Nélisse
Here's the thought process. A redirect that made sense when the film she's redirecting to was her only potentially noteworthy role doesn't make sense anymore when she's had three or four noteworthy roles. So my initial thinking was, her name should just be a redlink now — since that film's not her top notability claim anymore, it's not a justifiable redirect target anymore. So I deleted it with zero intention at the time of doing anything more than leaving a redlink and walking away to do other things, and only ten minutes later did I change my mind and decide to just start a quickie stub myself instead of leaving it redlinked. So it's not that I deleted it just to start a new article — I deleted the redirect with no intention of starting the article myself, and changed my mind about that later.

But at any rate, if there's any real need to actually restore any of the old edit history after the fact, it wouldn't just be "the redirect" in isolation — it would be the entire deleted edit history all the way back to the WP:TOOSOON full article that was created about her in 2013 and deleted by AFD. But if we're not prepared to justify restoring the full edit history, then there's no particular importance in just restoring the redirect part of it — we just don't attach any special "page creation credit" points to the creation of redirects per se, and care far more about who created the substantive standalone versions of articles. Bearcat (talk) 06:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thoughts. But I understood that redirects didn't get deleted without going to RfD ( unless attack etc), so you seem to have been using your admin bit to bypass normal process, which isn't good. Pam  D  06:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

DYK for A Surge of Power (Jen Reid) 2020
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:03, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion about the Sir Gillemere article
Hi, I want you to discuss the Sir Gillemere article, the problems with my edit, and help me. Please reply at my talk page because there's already a section about Sir Gillemere that you started there. Your answers can be invaluable for me, and I think I will use your advice for the foreseeable future. Please be civil, no personal attacks, and be kind. ᐱᔌᕬᐱɭᕮ ᐱᒍᐱᕬ  (Talk)  07:31, 16 August 2020 (UTC) .
 * Hi, I want you to discuss what I could be misunderstanding, advice and suggestions for future edits, and whether I should take a wikibreak and read the policies. Please be civil, no personal attacks. ᐱᔌᕬᐱɭᕮ ᐱᒍᐱᕬ   (Talk)  13:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Lady Elizabeth Hastings - Assessment
Re Lady Elizabeth Hastings; I updated this article a while back and I was trying to have it assessed, but I can't figure out where to list it. Its currently a C, I think certainly now a B, could be GA. Thanks! Robinvp11 (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!!
Thank you very much for your help about Valley of Guatemala. I am slowly but steadily learning! :) JimenaAstro (talk) 19:39, 24 August 2020 (UTC)JimenaAstro

Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank You, I wonder how many hours/weeks of my live I've wasted spent editing over those years!  Pam  D  07:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't count, just hope that there are more hours spent than wasted. I feel that I'm getting better in avoiding WP:Great Dismal Swamp and other time sinks. - And thank Rlevse, not me, I'm just the messenger. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:33, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

September Women in Red edithons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

The Signpost: 30 August 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:33, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #4
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this newsletter

Reply tool


The Reply tool  has been available as a Beta Feature at the Arabic, Dutch, French and Hungarian Wikipedias since 31 March 2020. The first analysis showed positive results.


 * More than 300 editors used the Reply tool at these four Wikipedias. They  posted more than 7,400 replies during the study period.
 * Of the people who posted a comment with the Reply tool, about 70% of them used the tool multiple times. About 60% of them used it on multiple days.
 * Comments from Wikipedia editors are positive. One said, أعتقد أن الأداة تقدم فائدة ملحوظة؛ فهي تختصر الوقت لتقديم رد بدلًا من التنقل بالفأرة إلى وصلة تعديل القسم أو الصفحة، التي تكون بعيدة عن التعليق الأخير في الغالب، ويصل المساهم لصندوق التعديل بسرعة باستخدام الأداة.  ("I think the tool has a significant impact; it saves time to reply while the classic way is to move with a mouse to the Edit link to edit the section or the page which is generally far away from the comment. And the user reaches to the edit box so quickly to use the Reply tool.")

The Editing team released the Reply tool as a Beta Feature at eight other Wikipedias in early August. Those Wikipedias are in the Chinese, Czech, Georgian, Serbian, Sorani Kurdish, Swedish, Catalan, and Korean languages. If you would like to use the Reply tool at your wiki, please tell User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF).

The Reply tool is still in active development. Per request from the Dutch Wikipedia and other editors, you will be able to customize the edit summary. (The default edit summary is "Reply".) A "ping" feature is available in the Reply tool's visual editing mode. This feature searches for usernames. Per request from the Arabic Wikipedia, each wiki will be able to set its own preferred symbol for pinging editors. Per request from editors at the Japanese and Hungarian Wikipedias, each wiki can define a preferred signature prefix in the page MediaWiki:Discussiontools-signature-prefix. For example, some languages omit spaces before signatures. Other communities want to add a dash or a non-breaking space.

New requirements for user signatures

 * The new requirements for custom user signatures began on 6 July 2020. If you try to create a custom signature that does not meet the requirements, you will get an error message.
 * Existing custom signatures that do not meet the new requirements will be unaffected temporarily . Eventually, all custom signatures will need to meet the new requirements. You can check your signature and see lists of active editors whose custom signatures need to be corrected.  Volunteers have been contacting editors who need to change their custom signatures.  If you need to change your custom signature, then please read the help page.

Next: New discussion tool
Next, the team will be working on a tool for quickly and easily starting a new discussion section to a talk page. To follow the development of this new tool, please put the New Discussion Tool project page on your watchlist.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:48, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Refs
The refs are different pages of the same newspaper. SL93 (talk) 23:37, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh. I added the wrong clipping. SL93 (talk) 23:42, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. SL93 (talk) 23:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Moving back to mainspace
(Refers to Luís Henrique Ferreira de Aguiar)

PamD,

I see you moved the article back. "45mins after creation" - literally the creator hadn't edited in 45mins. That should be more than enough time to get the sources. I don't have a lot of time. --◊ <b style="color:#095">PRAHLAD</b> <sup style="color:#707">balaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 23:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)



If you don't have time, leave the article for an editor who does have. There is an unreferenced tag: if everything unsourced was moved to draft space we wouldn't need that tag. Moving an article into draft where it is then left to the horrors and delays of AfC is not a constructive thing to do to a solid looking article from an established editor. Please don't be so impatient. Tag it as "unreferenced" and move along to clear up real problems. Pam D  23:15, 2 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Looking again: another editor had reviewed the page and tagged it as unreferenced. Why did you then decide to draftify, which causes a lot of work for other editors, rather than just leaving it alone? The article was not damaging the encyclopedia. The creating editor had not been editing other articles, so their work could have been interrupted ... a phone call, time for a meal, etc. Please concentrate on clearing up real problems, not on overenthusiastically draftifying articles which other experienced editors have already triaged. Thanks. Pam  D  06:44, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the tips and the assistance. Gabbhh (talk) 11:38, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Sorry. Anyways thanks for the tips. ◊ <b style="color:#095">PRAHLAD</b> <sup style="color:#707">balaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 22:08, 3 September 2020 (UTC)