User talk:Smasongarrison/Archives/2023

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Talk:St. Anthony Hall&#32; on a "Social sciences and society" Good Article nomination. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 07:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Smasongarrison!


Happy New Year! Smasongarrison, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

— Moops  ⋠ T ⋡ 16:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops  ⋠ T ⋡ 16:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Talk:Elizabeth II&#32; on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 09:30, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Communication
I glanced at your Infobox, and with your background, you might be a good fit to help out at the article Communication, that has been working hard on developing. Just thought you'd like to know. Mathglot (talk) 04:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * thanks -- I'll put it on my watchlist and take a deeper look.Mason (talk) 04:30, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

US-novelist-20thC-stub
Hi. I have reverted a couple AWB edits of yours. The edits linked to a non-existent stub template. I don't know if you intended, or would rather use one of the stub templates at Category:American novelist, 20th-century birth stubs? There are 33 more just like these (the list is here) but I didn't want to revert them all before contacting you. -- DB 1729 talk 14:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know!! I could have sworn that there was a template for that stub. 🤔 Mason (talk) 14:47, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Lol, well, it looks like somebody solved the problem by making a stub for it. But seriously, thanks for letting me know! I'll dig back through my edits around that time to see what could have happened. Mason (talk) 14:51, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! Glad it's resolved:) DB 1729 talk 15:05, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * But the text for Category:American novelist, 20th-century birth stubs says that it is a parent-only category, so I don't think that the new template should have been created. My reading of that rubric is that if the birth decade isn't known, the only relevant  stub is US-novelist-stub.  Pam  D  23:04, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I have nominated it for deletion: please don't use it until the discussion has finished. Thanks. Pam  D  23:18, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries -- I'm happy to support whatever the community decides on that stub. I'm still trying to deconstruct how my wires got crossed in the first place. (My best guess is an overly complicated reg substitution was a contributing factor... but either way, my goal is to make sure to prevent surprises like that from happening again) Mason (talk) 00:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Yugoslav disabled sportspeople


A tag has been placed on Category:Yugoslav disabled sportspeople indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:19, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Unauthorized bot
You appear to be operating an authorized bot that adds pages to the Essays WikiProject. Please stop. If I see any additional such edits I will bring this up at an appropriate bot-related noticeboard. Jc3s5h (talk) 03:46, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm using autowikibrowser which I've been approved to use. Mason (talk) 03:48, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not a bot. If you think that adding the essay wikiproject to essay pages is not a good idea, then I am willing to discuss that. However, if your problem is that I'm using AutoWikiBrowser to do it, then I can tell you that I'm very much authorized to use it. Mason (talk) 03:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The beginning of one tagged page, ISO 8601, reminded me of the article ISO 8601 so much that I mistook it for the article, and thought your edit was an error. Looking closer, I see your edit was correct. And I had forgotten about autowikibrowser. I was approved for that once a time, but became convinced it had pretty much the same potential to mess up lots of pages as bots, with a looser approval process. So I asked whoever gave out the approvals to undo my approval, because I didn't want to be associated with it. Jc3s5h (talk) 06:32, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining your reasoning. I appreciate it! (Sorry for being a tad grumpy at you) Mason (talk) 13:14, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Caldecott
Your category for the Caldecott Medal is wrong. It has appeared on the main page. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:11, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. I had used that category and a few others to identify potential list pages. (I must have forgotten to update the tag I was using when I merged in more items) Mason (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Ultraviolet page
I recently noticed that you added the WikiProject Essays template to Ultraviolet's talk page. How come? It also seems that you'be been using AWB to make these edits; just out of curiosity, what query are you using? Anyway, I've reverted the edit, but I thought I'd let you know. Have a nice day!  Rema goxer  (talk) 23:22, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up. I could have sworn that I had filtered out user pages from the Essay category before I started working my way through. I'll crawl back through my workflow and see what extra step I can implement to ensure that the filtering works. Seriously, I appreciate the heads-up! Mason (talk) 23:27, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

g'day g'day

 * sincere apology - I missed that you were doing it anyways - I am not very good at checking diffs. I do get it wrong quite a few times JarrahTree 14:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries! At first, I didn't actually add the suicide = yes tag. It only occurred to me after I did a couple of them. :) Mason (talk) 17:16, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

AWB error?
Hello Smasongarrison, most of the edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walter_Scott&diff=1131390340&oldid=1126424364 is an improvement, but the edit included a small "dis-improvement" i just have corrected: An nbsp wikisyntax was destroyed. --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 16:53, 28 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know! I've dug in a little bit, and it looks like that was an unintended spillover regex from my google books url cleaner script. I'll think about how to prevent that dis-improvment from happening again. It'll be an interesting puzzle to solve. :) Mason (talk) 17:10, 28 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, your recent string of edit summaries appears somewhat odd. Why is it including a category name? BD2412  T 05:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've included the category name because I'm using it to generate the list of pages to have projects added to them. Mason (talk) 05:59, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, that makes sense. Thanks! BD2412  T 19:58, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Talk:Miami University&#32; on a "Social sciences and society" Good Article nomination. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 19:30, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Name listas values
Hi @Smasongarrison! I noticed you going through a bunch of talk pages to add the biography project. Thanks for that, but re edits like this one at Fong Foo Sec, please don't just introduce a default listas sort with last word+comma+first words. Fong's family name, like that of many Chinese people, was Fong, so the default sort should be under that, as it is at the article itself. Having default sorts separate from titles only makes sense if we keep them accurate. More generally, I'm rather skeptical of the need to have any sorting specific to the biography project — why can't we just use the default sort value from the page rather than forking the data? &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 05:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)


 * If it makes you feel any better, I also dislike that there's no way to deactivate the listas sort for awb or really any of the project taggers. I try my best to remove the automatic sort when I see it's doing it incorrectly. Mason (talk) 06:24, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements&#32; on a "Maths, science, and technology" request for comment. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 20:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Law
Hi, thanks for doing an AWB run for. As per, please note that for bios, WikiProject Biography usually comes before any other WikiProject banners and for a living person where WikiProject banner shell is not used, WikiProject Biography must come before other WikiProject banners to ensure that the BLP message is displayed on top. This is according to WP:TALKORDER. Maybe you could look into some regex that doesn't put the line that you add on top, or alternatively shift the line down manually before you save. Thanks and keep up your good work.  Schwede 66  21:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know! I'll tinker with AWB to try to make sure that happens. I'm using multiple kingbot plugins for AWB. I'll poke around to see if I can find a clever fix. It might be as simple as changing the order for how the plugins load.
 * Mason (talk) 21:12, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And totally unrelated, Yerkes is pronounced (.  Schwede  66  21:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 🤣 lol the randomness of your comment was *way* too funny. But, related, I started digging around in the plugin (and noting my observations in the edit summary). I think that the load order could be implemented if someone tinkered with the kingbot plugin code. It seems like different scenarios causes projects to get added to the top or bottom of the project list. It's beyond my programming skill, but I imagine that the developers of AWB could impose some more consistent behavior on their end. Mason (talk) 21:50, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Mass addition of WikiProject banners
Hi, please check the scope of a WikiProject before you add their banner to a talk page. For instance, was inappropriate because novels are fiction, and WP:BOOKS explicitly states that Articles concerning fiction should be directed to WikiProject Novels, WikiProject Children's literature and WikiProject Fictional characters. Similarly, was inappropriate for the same reason, and also because the "2010s-" prefix is a subdivider for thriller novels, it isn't about a decade, see WP:YEARS. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 08:39, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the recommendation for improving my workflow -- I'll definitely do that in the future! Mason (talk) 13:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

 * Thanks! Mason (talk) 01:15, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

probably doing it anyway, maybe
once again excellent to see your edits on my watchlist! - there is the possibility that when you get to more than just a single item (If I read the sense correctly) - that mausoleum(s) (I loved it in Indonesia when doing research there that I found reference to the plural as mausolea (sic) ) might collectively enjoy the company of the cemeteries tag as well, not just death...  Again I might have misread your edits, and you may well have done so anyways. Keep up the good work, the death project deserves the additions! JarrahTree 01:01, 13 February 2023 (UTC)


 * (to use another astonishing usage of the neglish I thought I had) - one of the learnings I have gained by reading your talk page is the notion of talkorder above - for the like of me of well over ten years of talk page tagging has anyone tried that one on me. You are lucky! JarrahTree 01:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies - edit conflict I think I skewered your reply. Sorry. JarrahTree 01:13, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion and the supportive words! I'll probably circle back to the cemeteries project later. I'm trying to keep myself a tad more narrow in my categories so that don't overzealously apply a tag (like I did for books vs novels...)  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason ]] ( [[User talk:Smasongarrison#top|talk ]]) 01:06, 13 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Then if you are awb'ing its fine - but if manually, I think that https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Murders_in_Malaysia_by_decade really deserves the extra bits due to the context - murder is always crime/death (as far as I can see so far), the country and the fact that it is measured in time - but then I have never had anything that has even ventured into my talk space about any of the tagging (from memory), but as I said - awb'ing is in itself best left to the pc users of the universe, there are things in there I avoid and leave well alone... JarrahTree 01:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Seriously?
Hi, Prof @Smasongarrison, may I know how does an Islamic scholar biography fit in the scope of "science and academia"? Same with this. I'd be glad to know your reason for this grouping. Best, ─ The Aafī   (talk)  14:37, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey there, so I'm going to focus on the content of your question and assume that you're asking this in good faith. (Although your subject heading AND use of my professional title make that more challenging). I thought that they were in the scope because "Islamic scholars" are scholars, and scholars are academics. My understanding is that folks tagged with the Islamic scholars stub are religious scholars as in, they study religion. Indeed, the stub directs readers to the Islamic studies page. "Islamic studies refers to the academic study of Islam" . Mason (talk) 18:52, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Smasongarrison: I'm sorry if If my tone has sounded a bit ridiculous to you. I understand your reasoning and it is fine. Best, ─ The Aafī   (talk)  03:34, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, I used the professional title in admiration. ;) ─ The Aafī   (talk)  03:35, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, I'll just piggyback here rather than create a new section since it is also to do with Wikiprojects. I was wondering why you added the Wikiproject religion to Ragnar Lodbrok, since unlike for example Yggdrasil which is clearly related to Old Norse religion the Ragnar Lodbrok article is more related to folklore and Norse history, so I don't really see how it would be a standout article of interest for said Wikiproject. TylerBurden (talk) 16:04, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, so I tagged Ragnar Lodbrok as religion because that's what topic his vital article was categorized under. "Ragnar Lodbrok has been listed as a level-5 vital article in Religion." Sorry if that wasn't clear from my edit summary. Mason (talk) 16:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah ok, makes sense, thank you. TylerBurden (talk) 16:47, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing! Mason (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Women Scientists
Hi, thank you for all your good work with project tagging. I do think it bit be a bit over-eager regarding assigning people to the Women Scientists project though. For example, Alicia Blagg for the mention of planning to master's degree in psychology. I do realise though it's probably doing the project tags based solely on what categories are already assigned. -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Yep -- I'm definitely doing it based on the page category. But, I do agree that putting Alicia in that category for considering doing a master's degree is over eager. I'll reflect on my workflow to see if there's a better way to filter out folks who probably shouldn't have been added to the category in the first place. Mason (talk) 13:38, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the clarification. Similar with Aanchal Malhotra - whilst I'd definitely agree she's an academic, I wouldn't have said she's a scientist. Are historians scientists generally? I don't know, and some probably are, but I wouldn't have said all are. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:34, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a really good question. I think I agree with you that some historians may be scientists, but not all historians are. I have similar thoughts about anthropologists. Hmmmm... I think that my big takeaway is that I should place less faith in nested categories when I'm generating my tagging list. Mason (talk) 12:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd even go as a far as saying not all psychologists are scientists. Some may be practicing, but not doing research for instance, same with physicians. For something like economics, I don't know anymore, though I believe it counts as a social science. Anthropology definitely is a social science. History falls under humanities, which is academic, but not science (in my view). I've had arguments outside of WP before about if even maths is a science, but I'd say that is, at least for WP. :) The more you think about it the less clear cut things are! -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:23, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Wikipedia talk:Notability (politics)&#32; on a "Wikipedia policies and guidelines" request for comment. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 07:30, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Women writers
Thanks, Smasongarrison, for assigning over 500 articles to WikiProject Women writers on the basis of your investigation of categories. Over the next few days, I'll be devoting some of my editing time to the missing assessments. (cc )--Ipigott (talk) 11:45, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sharing a note of gratitude for adding that template, Smasongarrison. And thanks for the ping, . I really appreciate what both of you do around here supporting WP:WPWW. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:16, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the thanks! There will definitely be some false positives in there, but it's lovely to know that even without assessing the pages, my efforts are helpful. 😁  Mason (talk) 14:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Talk:2012–2014 Salvadoran gang truce&#32; on a "Social sciences and society" Good Article nomination. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 00:30, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Antonio Mazarrasa Quintanilla
Hello,

I have once prepared an entry titled Antonio Mazarrasa Quintanilla. Because I was unsure about the text segmentation, I have released what appeared to be a better version as an article, and an alternative version of the entry on the talk page, with request to provide feedback. Now I found that the alternative version, on talk page, has disappeared entirely. Moreover, there is no trace of anything having been changed on the talk page except your minor edit, which appears to have nothing to do with the deletion. Awfully sorry for bothering, but since your edit is the only visible trace of changes to the talk page, I am turning to you hoping you might shed some light on what happened. Regards, --Dd1495 (talk) 12:59, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message. I'd suggest reaching out to someone with admin rights over restoring your lost content. Mason (talk) 13:03, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Mason, thanks for your kind reply. Any clue where to look for these people appropriate rights? Who are they? WP mechanics is such a maze I got lost a number of times. Regards, --Dd1495 (talk) 13:42, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's a good place to look to ask questions/get some help: Questions or Help desk Mason (talk) 13:46, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Somali human rights activists


A tag has been placed on Category:Somali human rights activists indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:06, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

"Mexican footballer"
Hi. I'm no expert with categorisation on Wikipedia but think WP:DUPCAT may apply at Eduardo González Pálmer? At least from what I've observed, it does not seem like "Fooian footballer" usually gets removed when "Footballer from foo" exists? Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 13:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Honestly, before your revert, I was pretty confident that it applied, but now I'm doubting myself. It's clear that the norm in mexico footballer is to keep them in both. So tldr, I don't know. Mason (talk) 17:08, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The nationality categories (such as ) are non-diffusing and the player should be in that category regardless of any sub-categories. I have reverted the ones I've seen on my watchlist, please self-revert the rest. GiantSnowman 19:10, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification! I'll restore them asap Mason (talk) 19:22, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fantastic, thanks. GiantSnowman 19:53, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Tamara Awerbuch-Friedlander
Dr. Awerbuch-Friedlander moved to Tel-Aviv after her retirement from the Harvard Chan School of Public Health. I do not think that she is actively researching at this time? MaynardClark (talk) 03:06, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Changing references
Please don't change the wording of the title of a published source as you did here: the writer of the article, or their subeditor, chose the words and Wikipedia should not change them. Thanks. Pam D  09:32, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for fixing that! I didn't realize that I had accidentally replaced the term in the references when I searched and replaced all. (Which obviously, was an oversight on my part.) Mason (talk) 11:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Associated Students of the University of California, Los Angeles has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Associated Students of the University of California, Los Angeles. Thanks! DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! So I didn't actually create that article. I thought that it was substantial enough to be evaluated, but I didn't have a good sense of the area to make my own judgment. In hindsight, I probably should have just made a comment on the page in question. Mason (talk) 16:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:2007 in United Kingdom case law


A tag has been placed on Category:2007 in United Kingdom case law indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

the vagaries of oz
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Drug_Law_Reform_Australia

is also politics - political party subset - as much about the party as well... cheers JarrahTree 01:49, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools, is not suitable as written to remain published. While it appears to be notable, it needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. There are large sections which are wholly uncited. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. I did this rather than removing the uncited material in the article, which I felt would be more disruptive. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask on my talk page. When you have the required sourcing (and every assertion needs a source), and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Or feel free to ping me to take another look. Onel 5969  TT me 13:42, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I appreciate you not removing the material. However, I didn't realize I needed to cite the ruling itself. Pretty much everything in there is the opinion, which I listed as an external link. Do you recommend that I relabel it as a reference? Mason (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Anway, I added in some more citations and included the case as a reference. I've submitted it for review. Mason (talk) 15:39, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've restored this page to mainspace. I'm not convinced it really should have been draftified in the first place. As stubs go, I think it was pretty good, and definitely a lot more useful to readers than having nothing at all. I'm not seeing how it meets the part 2 criteria ("the article does not meet the required standard") at WP:DRAFTIFY.
 * WP:MINREF does state that direct quotes (of which there is one in the previously unreferenced "Supreme Court decision" section) require inline citations. However, that sentence has in-text attribution, which is a valid form of citation. Still, I think the addition of actual footnotes with links to the opinion is a definite improvement in terms of reader experience.
 * btw I'm a little confused by your comment above that "every assertion needs a source" in order for the article to be ready for mainspace. That's not even required by the Featured Article criteria! (See WP:WTC) Colin M (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Colin M. As per WP:VERIFY: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists, and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material."  Which is a policy, while WTC is an essay.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:44, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, but verifiable is not the same thing as requiring a citation. Everything I had written was easily verifiable from the court case itself. That's where I found all the information in the first place... I think that tagging the specific elements found needing to be verifiable would have been better and less disruptive than deleting them or converting the article to a draft.
 * For what it's worth, I had added a tag that the article needed additional in-line citations. Thanks for digging into this. Mason (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Your recent contributions to Category:United States LGBT rights case law
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at Category:United States LGBT rights case law. Christmas tearjerker (talk) 11:51, 5 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Please explain how this is vandalism?? Mason (talk) 11:53, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There's vandalism alright. But it' not you. Christmas tearjerker indef'ed; you can ignore this. DMacks (talk) 11:59, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks! Mason (talk) 11:59, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools


Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Luna Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Luna Perez v. Sturgis Public Schools. If you have new information to add, you might want to discuss it at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Jsgoodrich (talk) 00:33, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * As I noted on the discussion, I don't think speedy deleting is the solution. Mason (talk) 00:48, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Associated Students of the University of California, Los Angeles has been accepted
 Associated Students of the University of California, Los Angeles, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

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Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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please fix your script
In edits like this one, your script converted '(sic)' in a cs1|2 template title parameter to ' '. That template is not to be used in cs1|2 templates per the Mbox on the  template's doc page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:20, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know! I'll work on getting that to only run outside of templates Mason (talk) 13:27, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Still broken; see this edit; square brackets instead of parentheses.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:48, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Drat! Thanks for pointing it out!! I had hoped that my change worked... clearly it didn't (and I also clearly missed this one on top of that). I think I'm just going to disable it until I can rewrite it from scratch. Mason (talk) 23:51, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Drat! Thanks for pointing it out!! I had hoped that my change worked... clearly it didn't (and I also clearly missed this one on top of that). I think I'm just going to disable it until I can rewrite it from scratch. Mason (talk) 23:51, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
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21st-century American anthropologists
I noticed that you've just moved a large group of anthropologists into Category:21st-century American anthropologists. It looks like several of these people were active before 2000. If you're going to categorize then by century they also (or—in some cases perhaps—only) ought to be in Category:20th-century American anthropologists. pburka (talk) 14:10, 7 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback/advice. So my current workflow is to go century by century, rather than anthropologist by anthropologist using Cat-a-lot, and then circle back across all of them using AutoWikiBrowser. Mason (talk) 17:39, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Honours lists
Hallo, for some reason 1980 New Year Honours is on my watchlist, so I noticed your changes. As the description and the reason for the honour are copied exactly from the official source, The London Gazette, I don't think it is appropriate to change the language to match current sensitivities, nor to modify the style of capitalisation. I considered reverting this edit and the other ones I see near it in your contributions list, but thought I would discuss it with you first. Would you consider reverting them yourself? Pam D  22:58, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the message. I have mixed feelings. 1) I don't have strong opinions about about the capitalization, although they do seem to be pretty consistent with the style guide. 2) I do feel strongly that we shouldn't be using out-of-date terms without making it extremely clear that that text is quoted. If you want to update each to quotes around the problematic disability language "the handicaped", etc fine. However, I don't think using out-of-date language is consistent with the spirit of wikipedia. Here's an essay on writing about disability that discusses this at length. Mason (talk) 23:05, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I've reverted all the capitalizations, but I kept the updated language and updated categories. Mason (talk) 00:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I still don't think the wording of the citation should be modified. The preamble already says "Names and titles of recipients are shown as they appeared in this honours list.". Would you agree to leave the citations as they stand if we amended it to something on the lines of "Names and titles of recipients, and the citations for the awards, are shown as they appeared in this honours list. The language of the citations may not meet current standards, e.g. in references to "handicap"."?   Pam  D  05:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I really don't think we should leave the citations as is. Wikipedia isn't a primary source. Mason (talk) 13:24, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd like to get a few more eyes on this discussion. I read up about RfCs, and the instructions suggest discussing at the relevant Wikiproject first, so I will start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medals but will alert the other relevant WikiProjects: Disability, Lists, and UK. Please don't change the language in any more honours lists until we have heard other editors' views on this. Thanks. Pam  D  16:59, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I agree that I'd also love some more eyes on this. Mason (talk) 17:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

2022 New Year Honours
Hello Smasongarrison, regarding your edit comment here, specifically the citation for Ercinda Swan, generally we don't change award citations, I've not reverted it, but just be aware you could be reverted in future. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks -- yeah, that's definitely seems to be the consensus. It's probably worth adding some kind of hidden comment for other folks who might wander in using AWB. (I'm going to think about ways to prevent this from repeating itself) Mason (talk) 23:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Daniel Atkinson (biochemist)
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Daniel Atkinson (biochemist), may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Qwerfjkl_(bot)&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 02:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daniel_Atkinson_(biochemist)&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1155418196%7CDaniel%20Atkinson%20(biochemist)%5D%5D Ask for help])

WikiProject Med Newsletter - Issue 21
Ajpolino (talk) 04:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Harris Isbell
I removed the {fcn} added to Harris Isbell; the paragraph is a summary of what he wrote in Isbell(1955) (part of the biographical description), so that is the source (it is included in the references at the start of the paragraph). Feel free to duplicate the reference if you think it's helpful. Finney1234 (talk) 04:16, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 20
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Nomination of The Daily Campus for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article The Daily Campus is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/The Daily Campus until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Chances last a finite time (talk) 13:57, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

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What is your logic for removing Greek painters from 16th-century Greek people?
Why are you removing so many Greek painters from their respective categories Greek people. What is your logical explanation for the removal.

Tzim78 (talk) 11:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Emmanuel Lambardos Removing from Category:16th-century Greek people
 * Georgios Klontzas Removing from Category:16th-century Greek people
 * Christodoulos Kalergis Removing from Category:17th-century Greek people etc,


 * Hi there, I'm going to assume you're asking this question in good faith. So I was diffusing (WP:DIFFUSE) the pages as the painters are already in the more specific Category:16th-century Greek painters, which is a subcategory Category:16th-century Greek people .  Mason (talk) 13:14, 31 May 2023 (UTC)


 * After carefully considering your edits I would agree that the more specific category is a better place. Good work and thank you. I am a researcher and I value useful categories and I take them very seriously.Tzim78 (talk) 14:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! Mason (talk) 14:23, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Ivor van Heerden
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Ivor van Heerden, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Qwerfjkl_(bot)&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 01:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ivor_van_Heerden&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1158273120%7CIvor%20van%20Heerden%5D%5D Ask for help])

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Ways to improve People v. Ruggles
Hello, Smasongarrison,

Thank you for creating People v. Ruggles.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

"Great work on this article! The claim that the decision had a "lasting impact" could be considered original research (see WP:OR), so I would suggest attributing it to a reliable source. I also found this analysis in the Harvard Law Review, which might be useful for expanding the article a little."

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with. Remember to sign your reply with. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Actualcpscm (talk) 12:50, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback! I'll add some sources to support it :) Mason (talk) 16:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Request to Update Map of US laws regarding transgender athletes
Hey Mason,

Since I don't really know how to update maps on Wikimedia Commons, would you please fill the following states with the color red on the of "US laws regarding transgender athletes" because recent legislation has been enacted banning transgender athletes from competing in women's sports in the following states, but the map still hasn't been updated in nearly a year:

- Georgia [1 ]

- Kansas [2 ]

- Missouri [https://apnews.com/article/transgender-missouri-republican-govenrnor-sports-d0d3ef01544dc7c22592d8ca2464138b#:~:text=Parson%20also%20signed%20legislation%20Wednesday,funding%20for%20violating%20the%20law. [3] ]

- North Dakota [4 ]

- Wyoming [5 ]

Thank you! Squazyzilla (talk) 04:27, 17 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Sure thing! I think I've gotten all the states updated. You might have to purge your cache to see the changes. Mason (talk) 05:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Category Talk pages
Hello, Smasongarrison,

Please do not create Category Talk pages for pages where there is no Category page. Most of the categories you are making talk pages for have been moved through deletion discussions so they don't need talk pages which will just be deleted. You might check out the Category page before you decide whether or not to create a Category Talk page. Thank you for all of your many contributions to the project. Liz Read! Talk! 20:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know! I thought my database dump was set to filter out deleted pages. Mason (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Here's a couple more: You just created a talk page for Category talk:Paintings in the collection of ARoS Aarhus Kunstmuseum, Category talk:Paintings in the collection of Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum and Category talk:Paintings in the collection of National Museum Cardiff but the CFD bot, JJMC89 bot III, deleted these categories on June 19th. And Category talk:Photography museums and galleries in Vietnam which the bot just deleted today so that's understandable. So, I think your database dump needs to be updated.
 * To tell you the truth, I'm surprised there are this many museum categories that have been deleted lately. But I've found that you never know what articles, drafts, redirects, categores, etc. some editor will nominate for deletion consideration. Pages can exist for decades undisturbed and then an editor will just decide they have to go. Liz Read! Talk! 19:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I agree, I need to do a fresh data dump. And, next batch, I'll do two passes once were the pages already exist, and then a 2nd pass where they don't. That'll help I think at least smooth out the workflow. Mason (talk) 19:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
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'Tweak' on Draft:Vern Bennom Grimsley
I would like to move this draft forward, but I fear that it will be rejected. Do you have any suggestions on how it can be moved forward? MaynardClark (talk) 00:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I think you'll get great/constructive feedback if you submit it for review. Mason (talk) 00:40, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Akane Yamaguchi
Hello. Help copy edit. Thanks you. 115.76.249.90 (talk) 14:43, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll take a look. Mason (talk) 17:40, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Subcategory question
Hello Mason. I note that you recently added Category:xxxx deaths to a number of articles containing Category:xxxx suicides. My understanding is that since the former category is the parent category of the latter, then adding Category:xxxx deaths is not needed. In WP:SUBCAT the general rule is stated as: "Items may belong to more than one category, but normally not to a category and its parent." (There is an exception for non-diffusing categories.) I ask this because I have seen other editors delete this exact same edit when it has been added. There should be a consistent approach to this common occurrence. I favor not citing both categories, as per the guidance cited above. Which is correct? Appreciate any clarification you can provide on your thinking. Thanks. Historybuff0105 (talk) 15:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for posting. For the most part you're right, as that's the general idea with diffusing categories. However, my understanding is that suicide is a non-diffusing subcategory. Or at least that's what it says in all the suicide categories, for example: Category:2016 suicides states pretty clearly that it's a "This is a non-diffusing subcategory of Category:2016 deaths. It includes 2016 deaths that can also be found in the parent category, or in diffusing subcategories of the parent." Mason (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Mason. Thank you for the explanation. I don't think I ever noticed that clarification. Going forward, I will change the way I approach this issue when creating or editing articles. This was really helpful. Thanks again. Historybuff0105 (talk) 17:30, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! 😁 Mason (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Royalty are not nobility
Hello! Please be careful not to classify members of royalty as nobility. Royalty and nobility are not the same thing. Best wishes, SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback! I had assumed that royals were nested within nobility. Like, if you're a royal, you're a noble; but if you're a noble that doesn't mean your a royal. Any chance there's a wikipedia essay on this so I can dig in to better understand the classification? Mason (talk) 17:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ahh, you already gave me links! Thanks!!!! Mason (talk) 17:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Peter Phillips, Zara Tindall and the children of each are royal (because of their birth) but not noble (because their mother didn't want any of her descendants to be given titles). -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 18:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Noblepersons are normally members of certain families which have been given hereditary titles of nobility by monarchs. Royal persons only quite rarely have ever belonged to such families. If they did they can be categorized as nobility and royalty but definitely never as nobility only. Whether or not British royalty who also have titles that look like nobility (are they actually?) can be categorized as royalty and nobility is something I do not know. I wouldn't. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Invitation
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New page reviewer granted
Hi Smasongarrison. Your account has been added to the " " user group. Please check back at WP:PERM in case your user right is time-limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page or ask via the NPP Discord. In addition, please remember:
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The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. If you can read any languages other than English, please add yourself to the list of new page reviewers with language proficiencies. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 21:40, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Mason (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Category:Clergy with disabilities has been nominated for deletion
Category:Clergy with disabilities has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. StAnselm (talk) 15:34, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Removal of biographies from the American slave owners category
Hi. I'm part of WikiProject Pennsylvania and have noticed that you've recently been removing a number of biographies from the American slave owners category ("Category:American slave owners"). I'm curious as to what your rationale is for making this category deletion to so many biographies (a total of 137 in July) because several of the individuals in this group are described and cited in their bios as slave owners. - 47thPennVols (talk) 20:15, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reaching out. So those individuals are all in more specific subcategories of Americans who own slaves, per WP:DIFFUSE. For example, I removed Eppa Hunton from the slave owner category after adding him to Category:Members of the United States House of Representatives who owned slaves  . This category is a more specific subcategory (WP:SUBCAT) because all members of the Category:Members of the United States House of Representatives who owned slaves are also Category:American slave owners. Mason (talk) 20:30, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. Thank you for getting back with me so quickly. I thought you probably had a good reason for making the changes, but I wasn't seeing subcategories pop up for a couple of the Pennsylvania bio subjects that I follow and just wanted to double check. (I think there may be some sort of Wikipedia glitch with my Watchlist that notifies me about category changes, but not the updates to subcategories?) At any rate, thank you so much for all of your hard work with these updates. They're so important and make life better for all of us as editors. Wishing you continued success with your work! - 47thPennVols (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Special:Diff/1166597063
Can you explain why you did this? The state of the category was due to a CfD discussion and the previous CfD ended in no consensus, so this seems to be unilatetal. — Qwerfjkl  talk  14:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I did not realize that it was the result of a CFD discussion; if i'm recalling, I think that I did it because I had found that several Polish occupations were floating around and it made sense to me to add a category.Mason (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case, do you have any problem with me restoring the category redirect? I think the target category covers the same scope. — Qwerfjkl  talk  17:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * totally fine with you reverting it and moving all the poland occupations from the redirect :) Mason (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've reverted it; unfortunately Cat-a-lot doesn't completely work on my tablet or I would move the categories myself, but a bot will move them in a day or two, or you can fix them if you like. —  Qwerfjkl  talk  18:03, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 👍 Mason (talk) 18:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi, I just wanted to say thank you for cleaning up the categories on so many articles on contemporary Native American artists. I appreciate it! Netherzone (talk) 03:33, 5 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You're most welcome!!!! Mason (talk) 03:35, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Coefficient of relationship table
Template:Coefficient of relationship table has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – August 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2023).



Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Firefangledfeathers
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg AlisonW · Amberrock · Closedmouth · Scottywong

Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Novem Linguae

Technical news
 * The tag filter on Special:NewPages and revision history pages can now be inverted. This allows hiding edits made by automated tools.
 * Special:BlockedExternalDomains is a new tool that allows easier blocking of plain domains (and their subdomains). This is more easily searchable and is faster for the software to use than the existing MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. It does not support regex (for complex cases), URL path-matching, or the MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist.

Arbitration
 * The arbitration cases named Scottywong and AlisonW closed 10 July and 16 July respectively.
 * The SmallCat dispute arbitration case is in the workshop phase.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Edith Heath
Hi. Can you explain why you removed the category "American ceramicists" from Edith Heath? she seems to be very much an American ceramicist. Lamona (talk) 19:29, 5 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If you look at the edit right before that one, you'll see that I moved Edith Heath from Category:20th-century ceramists‎ to Category:20th-century American ceramists‎. Mason (talk) 19:33, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. My "following" page only showed the one edit. I'll scrutinize that page more knowing that. Lamona (talk) 04:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries! That's helpful to know how it looks to others. Mason (talk) 19:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that your intention would have been clearer if had been done as a single edit. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 21:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; that's the downside of using the Cat-a-lot gadget for categorizing. Mason (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Player Profile
Can you make a Player Profile Heading for these 3 players? Anthony Davis Kyrie Irving and Allen Iverson.. Also can you update LeBron James profile on his page, Give me more characteristics of his playing style on the player profile.. JwillWiki454 (talk) 01:41, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,
 * So I don't tend to take requests for edits like that. You're welcome to make those changes yourself or suggest them on the relevant talk pages. Mason (talk) 01:51, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * How do I get to the relevant talk pages to request it? JwillWiki454 (talk) 01:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's the page for LeBron. Talk:LeBron James You can always find the talk page right next to the main page. Here's some more information about talk pages Talk page guidelines Mason (talk) 02:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Kobe Bryant
Hi there, while your edits are appreciated, please refrain from adding extraneous categories, like you did here on Kobe Bryant. Thank you for your time. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 02:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * How are they extraneous? Mason (talk) 02:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, you placed him in the categories 20th-century American philanthropists and 21st-century American philanthropists when he's already in the category American philanthropists. The article also says that he wasn't active in philanthropy during the 20th-century. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 02:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, well, I'm not really sure how to respond to this. 21st-century american philanthropists is more specific than American philantropists, so he should be diffused into the 21st-century category. If he wasn't active in 20th-century, that's easily remedied by removing that category. Mason (talk) 02:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I've updated the category, to reflect that his philanthropy is only 21st century. Mason (talk) 02:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, but I just saw your recent contributions that you may by emptying the Category:American philanthropists. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 02:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm defusing them... per WP:DIFFUSE Mason (talk) 02:41, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, does that mean the category will be empty? 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 02:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No. The category has numerous subcategories. Mason (talk) 02:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * But will the category itself be empty of pages? 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 02:45, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I doubt it, as there are American philanthropists from before the 19th-century. And even if it were, that wouldn't be a problem. I encourage you to review the guidance I linked to on diffusing categories. Mason (talk) 02:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So I did some digging as I think that you are @Shadowbryan25. And it seems like you have had problems with the philanthropy category before as well as editing while logged out User_talk:Shadowbryan25. I'm pining @331dot as they're familiar with your situation. Mason (talk) 02:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Look, I've had these problems in the past, but I'm trying my best not to make these same mistakes again. I have severe anxiety about these things, and I try my hardest not to make these mistakes. I'm very sorry about all of this, and I really don't want to be blocked from editing again. I hope you understand. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 03:02, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding, being forthright about your mental health, and for asking questions. I would still encourage you to stay logged into your account as that makes it easier for folks to communicate with you and understand the context of your edits. Why are you concerned that I'm diffusing pages into a more specific category? Mason (talk) 03:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that editing while logged out was considered to be a form of sockpuppetry until recently. I'm trying my best not to make the same mistakes again, and I really don't want to be blocked. I have OCD, and have a weird obsession with Wikipedia categories for some reason, but I just don't want to be blocked again. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 03:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, I appreciate you being open about your mental health. But, as you said, you now know that editing while logged out like you've been doing is a form of sockpuppetry. (So I'd recommend logging back in). I'd also recommend trying to productively engage with your concerns about categories. Mason (talk) 03:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So will I be blocked from editing again? 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 03:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think you've done anything to warrant blocking, but I'd really encourage you to log back in. Mason (talk) 03:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So I don't have to worry about being blocked again? 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 03:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't have the power to block or unblock people. However, I'd strongly encourage you to log back into your account, as others might feel differently... Mason (talk) 03:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok -- so I did some more digging, and it looks like you are still removing categories that are more specific and engaging in the same problematic behavior that got you blocked. @Bbb23 pointed these issues out before.
 * Like . If you were just alphabetizing the categories, there wouldn't be a large reduction in the character count. Please don't remove the hardwork of other editors. Mason (talk) 03:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok I'll try harder not to do so, but I really don't want to be blocked. I always try my best to make constructive edits on Wikipedia and communicate my concerns with others more often instead of aggressively trying to defend myself. If I am given the opportunity, I will not repeat the same mistakes again. 2001:569:507E:FB00:7C8E:98EC:3981:B5C6 (talk) 04:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, that's promising. However, I can see that you still haven't logged back in for this conversation. If you're really trying to not repeat the same mistakes, why aren't you logged back in? Mason (talk) 04:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I actually just made two edits logged in on Ryan Gosling and Barry Sanders. Shadowbryan25 (talk) 04:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ok that's good. Again, please just stay logged in, and don't undo other people's hard work. Mason (talk) 04:11, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. Again, I can only hope that I won't be blocked again. Shadowbryan25 (talk) 04:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

No Reasons (Film Page)
Hello Smasongarrison,

I have corrected quotation issues mentioned on No Reasons and have removed the template warning. I would appreciate if you wouldn’t mind taking another look. It’s also up for deletion by another user who is looking for comments relating to this page. Despite the quotation issue please also take a look at articles for deletion template on No Reasons.

Articles for deletion/No Reasons (2nd nomination)

I believe this meets and doesn’t fail WP:NFILM, with only 1 (questionable) review found and cited. It has several.

Thank you for your contributions and hope you will take a second look at this page to consider any further developments. S6GHSAM4 (talk) 07:10, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Native American librarians


A tag has been placed on Category:Native American librarians indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗ plicit  12:03, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted
Hi Smasongarrison. Your account has been added to the " " user group. Please check back at the permissions page in case your user right is time-limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page or ask via the NPP Discord. In addition, please remember:
 * Be nice to new editors. They are usually not aware that they are doing anything wrong. Do make use of the message feature when tagging  pages for maintenance so that  they are aware.
 * You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted. Please be formal and polite in your approach to them – even if they are not.
 * If you are not sure what to do with a page, don't review it – just leave it for another reviewer.
 * Accuracy is more important than speed. Take your time to patrol each page. Steps such as checking for copyright violations using Earwig's copyright violation detector, checking for duplicate articles, and evaluating sources (both in the article, and if needed, via a Google search) for compliance with the general notability guideline are mandatory and will take a few minutes per article.
 * Please review some of our flowcharts (1, 2) to help ensure you don't forget any required steps.
 * Use the message feature to communicate with article creators and offer advice as much as possible.

The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. If you can read any languages other than English, please add yourself to the list of new page reviewers with language proficiencies. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 14:04, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Mason (talk) 14:07, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for over-reverting
I'm surprised to hear that the recently deleted article is "on it's way to demonstrating notability" since I couldn't find any secondary coverage, but I look forward to seeing it. Cheers, Generalrelative (talk) 16:26, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * No worries! I agree that there's not a ton of secondary coverage. (But it probably has about the same as other individual differences organizations, like ARP, etc). So I'll probably model the draft after those pages. Mason (talk) 16:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Universities and colleges by year of establishment


A tag has been placed on Category:Universities and colleges by year of establishment indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz Read! Talk! 02:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Smriti Mandhana
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Smriti Mandhana, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Smasongarrison&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1171943266 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 02:39, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smriti_Mandhana&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1171943266%7CSmriti%20Mandhana%5D%5D Ask for help])

Diffusing cats
Are you sure about edits like this? While the department can be considered to be an "Educational institution" it is not a "University or college", so the category could only apply to Oxford Uni, definitely not founded in 2000. Pam D  15:02, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * So I have felt a little torn about it, but my thinking about it as university/college department is part of a more specific kind of educational institution. My big motivation is to make the Educational Institution categories more reasonable in size, as there's just so many kinds of institutions in there. Do you think a different category name might be helpful? Like educational institutions of higher education? Mason (talk) 15:40, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Universities and colleges established in YEAR
Just curious, what criteria in AWB do you use to determine which articles get subcatted from Educational Institution in year? I also use AWB and was wondering what the setup you use is...Naraht (talk) 20:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I started with Category:Community colleges in the United States by state as my source category (letting it be recursive 1 level). Then, I used this rule:
 * It's not perfect, but my approach is to find categories that I know are colleges/universities, and then replace the less specific category with the more specific category. "Category:Educational institutions established in 19" -> "Category:Universities and colleges established in 19"
 * It's not perfect, but my approach is to find categories that I know are colleges/universities, and then replace the less specific category with the more specific category. "Category:Educational institutions established in 19" -> "Category:Universities and colleges established in 19"

Mason (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So you are just moving community colleges?Naraht (talk) 02:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not just. But it seemed like a good approach to avoid false positives by starting working through them. Mason (talk) 02:17, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Would grabbing everything in Category:Educational institutions established in 19 with College or University in the title and moving it generate too many false positives? I'm just surprised at the number remaining with either word in them.Naraht (talk) 04:30, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I tend to use AWB when I want to do something relatively mindless; so that approach would create more than zero false positives. But you're welcome to try it as your approach seems reasonable. Mason (talk) 04:37, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK. Didn't know what level of watching you were looking to do. Thanx.Naraht (talk) 12:44, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2023).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Pppery · Theleekycauldron
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Dwheeler · G.A.S · Royalbroil · Ssd



CheckUser changes
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Oversighter changes
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Guideline and policy news
 * Following an RfC, TFAs will be automatically semi-protected the day before it is on the main page and through the day after.
 * A discussion at WP:VPP about revision deletion and oversight for dead names found that [s]ysops can choose to use revdel if, in their view, it's the right tool for this situation, and they need not default to oversight. But oversight could well be right where there's a particularly high risk to the person. Use your judgment.

Technical news
 * Special:Contributions now shows the user's local edit count and the account's creation date.

Arbitration
 * The SmallCat dispute case has closed. As part of the final decision, editors participating in XfD have been reminded to be careful about forming local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus. Regular closers of XfD forums were also encouraged to note when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful.

Miscellaneous
 * Tech tip: The "Browse history interactively" banner shown at the top of Special:Diff can be used to easily look through a history, assemble composite diffs, or find out what archive something wound up in.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:African American churches in North Carolina has been nominated for renaming
Category:African American churches in North Carolina has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for all your categories work
Very nice to have everything in the right slots. jengod (talk) 05:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Awww thanks for saying that! You're most welcome :) Mason (talk) 05:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

New page patrol October 2023 Backlog drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

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Cosmonaut category
Please leave the individual cosmonaut categories on the main cosmonaut category page, maintenance categories are not used as visible categories. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:30, 16 September 2023 (UTC)


 * will do! Mason (talk) 12:36, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

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Category:People from the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg
Do you think if it was called People from Hamburg (1806-1871), that would be a better name for the category?John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * To make things more fun, in the 19th-century some of what is now in Hamburg, Altoona for sure, was not in Hamburg. Until 1864 Altoona was actually part of the headache causing Duchy of Holstein, which was both part of the German Confederation, but also under the control of Denmark. In 1864 it passed to joint control of Austria and Prussia, and then in 1866 fully comes under Prussian control. So not only Hamburg's political status relative to other places, but its very boundaries are different at that time.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:44, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Johnpacklambert interesting! that does sound extremely complicated. Mason (talk) 13:47, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Johnpacklambert that's a great question. So I don't think that that name would help. if anything it looks even more arbitrary because it's a city intersecting with a century. However, I think that the parent category will stick around. however any child categories, like businesspeople from free city of Hamburg won't. Mason (talk) 13:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Military doctors and military personnel
I am thinking if we want it to be clear that military doctors are categorized by the force they were part of we should name the category something like Military doctors in the Russian Imperial armed forces, Military doctors in the United States armed forces and so on. We do have Category:Military personnel by ethnicity where we can put some of the people, such as people from a large multi-ethnic Empire for whom their ethnicty is defining. In other cases I think just two categories, such as British expatriates and Military personnel of Portgual or whatever exactly it is named would help. It might help if we renamed Military personnel by nationality to Military personnel by armed force. American military personnel is already split under American military personnel by branch. We even have Category:American people in the khedivial Egyptian Army, but do not have Category:Khedivial Egyptian Army personnel which would seem a logical parent. Right now aviators, doctors and nurses are by country, and other sub-cats are by nationality. Well, the by former country has 43 sub-cats, but no one has ever created by former nationality cats. It is not always clear to me that it makes sense to seperate out former country cats into their own tree. That category itself has a mess of from and of, and has some interesting cases. Like the Category:Military personnel of Saxony which says it is for people before 1914 (I am not sure there is any justification for that year, 1866, 1871 and 1918 I could justify), however Saxony is the article on the Free State of Saxony, which was officially formed in 1920, but did have the same boundaries more or less (maybe fully) as the Kingdom of Saxony That existed from 1806-1918, coexisting with the Province of Saxony which was part of the Kingdom of Prussia from I think 1815-1918. There are lots of places where the scope of these categories needs to be thought out better.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Johnpacklambert That's a very promising idea! I was thinking something similar, although my idea wasn't as fully cooked as yours. I'll think some more about this as your thinking is really good Mason (talk) 14:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * For example we have an article Albanian Armed Forces, so I think we could have Category:Personnel of the Albanian Armed Forces. With the Russian Empire we do not have Imperial Russian Armed Forces as an article but Military history of the Russian Empire, but it is Imperial Russian Navy and Imperial Russian Army, and Imperial Russian Air Force or Air Forces, so I am thinking there we might want to rename the parent article and then clearly link the articles to it. This will in a few cases require changing categorization, but I think it would be much clearer, and also have the categories more closely linked.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:57, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I am also thinking Category:Soldiers by nationality is a very poor name. Some of the set ups are headache forming. Greek soldiers has as a sub-cat Greek military personnel which has as a subcat Hellenic Navy personnel. That was too much of a mess. I just created Hellenic Army personnel to hold Hellenic Army officers and be under Greek military personnel, and moved Greek military personnel elsewhere. Greek soldiers now has 3 items, and one of them it is less than clear what military he was actually part of, the other 2 seem to have been involved in the Greek revolution in the 1820s, and I suspect there are better categories for them. I think Soldiers is meant to mix A-specific army personnel, both enlisted and officers, and b-people involved in fighting not part of regularly militaries. American soldiers has United States Army soldiers as a sub-cat, but it is unclear to me we really need to link the other things, esepcially the Confederate Soldiers in that way. Japanese soldiers only has 3 articles, but Japanese Army only has Japanese Army officers as a subcat, no personel cats. I just noticed we have Category:Army officers, and a parent military officers by branch, that does not even say if it is "by country" or "by nationality". It is looking to me like Soldiers by nationality would be better named Army personnel by nationality, or army personnel by country, or even army personnel and then just say we categorize people by which army they served in, not by anything else, so if they were in the US army they go there, the Imperial Russian Army they go there, the French Army they go there, and so on, and we let other categories define nationality and such.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol newsletter
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Freedmen
Thank you for your comment on categories; however, just FYI, Cherokee Freedmen are eligible to full citizenship within the Cherokee Nation (not the other two Cherokee tribes). Likewise, Seminole Freedmen are eligible to be citizens of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma. The Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and the Muscogee (Creek) Nation do not enroll freedmen, and the Chickasaw Nation never did. Cheers, Yuchitown (talk) 03:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown


 * Probably not one of your most pressing concerns but I'm here because I can't stand misinformation! Yuchitown (talk) 03:02, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Ummm... thanks, I guess. I know that that it's complicated, nuanced, and that the issue with the Cherokee freedman is contentious and has been through a roller-coaster of litigation over the past 20 years. I figured that it was sufficient to convey that self-identification was at times all that certain people could get. Mason (talk) 03:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Their situation has been stable since 2011; Cherokee Freedmen are eligible to enroll as full citizens on the Cherokee Nation. So a very, very different scenario from what is going on with Category:Canadian people who self-identify as being of Indigenous descent. Yuchitown (talk) 14:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Sure it's stable now... but that's wasn't my point. My point was that at times in history, not everyone had the opportunity to have tribal membership. So Cherokee freedman who died before 2011 wouldn't have had the opportunity to do anything more than identify as being decedents. I'm intentionally avoiding the pretendian scenario and highlighting who will be lost if this kind of category is deleted. Because this reasoning will definitely apply to the American version of the category Mason (talk) 17:48, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That still wouldn't fit because freedmen have very clear and recent documentation. They have relatives that are on the freedman rolls. The demographic most would likely fit into the category who aren't pretendians would be Canadians of Latin American Indigenous ancestry who haven't done the research to find their specific Indigenous roots. Yuchitown (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchtiwon
 * I think that we're talking past each other. Mason (talk) 19:51, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm genuinely trying to convey to you who the people in the category would be that would not be pretendians. Although the most obvious examples would be Sixties Scoop survivors who have not yet been able to identify their birth families. Yuchitown (talk) 01:45, 23 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Ok, I appreciate you clearing that up. We're definitely talking past each other. I had been attempting to clarify my point about how members of historically disenfranchised groups might be excluded if the category was deleted. I had used the Cherokee Freedmen as an example. Mason (talk) 01:52, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * One final try, then I promise I'll give up: Cherokee freedman would absolutely not go in the US equivalent of this category (they would be the opposite; their identity is well documented and their efforts have been to be legal citizens of a US tribe, not necessary anything to do with Indigenous ancestry; some claim it; others don't). The category in question is about claims to ancestry. There are:
 * claims to generalized Indigenous ancestry
 * claims to tribally specific ancestry
 * external validation / published documentation confirming this ancestry
 * being a legal member of a tribe/First Nation (which doesn't necessarily require Indigenous ancestry in all cases, such in as your example)
 * Four different spheres reflected by very distinct classes of categories. Yuchitown (talk) 16:33, 23 September 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Yep, we're still talking past each other. Mason (talk) 19:13, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Eastern Orthodox
Regarding your revert, and similar, please note that Eastern Orthodoxy was the state religion of the Byzantine Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your note. I was aware of that and still still think that we shouldn't be conflating nationality with specific sect. If we did we would have nested english bishops under anglican. Mason (talk) 23:02, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Page protection vs. wp:aiv
Hi! I noticed your requests for page protection that were recently declined. Page protection is generally for articles that are being vandalized repeatedly by different users within a fairly short period of time. An example might look more like this. Single-user vandalisms are better dealt with through WP:AIV, so the article can stay open for editing by others. Joyous! Noise! 13:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Funnily enough, I actually made a post to AIV afterwards after I looked a little more closely at how pp actually worked. Thanks for confirming my new understanding! Mason (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Finish emigrants
I an thinking a rename to Emigrants from the Grand Duchy of Finland would solve a lot of issues. 1-it would link this category with a more established tree. 2-it would solve the issue of the more expansive boundaries. 3-it would allllow us to pclear place in people who were either not ethnicity Finnish, or whose Finnishness might be contested, who were clearly residents and subjects of the Grand Duchy of Finland. 4-it would make it so people would not place in this category ethnic Finns who never resided in the Grand Duchy of Finland. Due to being part of the Russian Empire, many ethnic Finns had moved to other parts of the Empire. If they only did so for a short time before emigrating, that would be a case where the Grand Duchy of Finland cat would apply. However if they had lived their entire life outside the Grand Duchy and never been there and then emigrated outside the Russian Empire, they should not be in such a category. A rename would make that clearer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. That's a good solution. Mason (talk) 14:40, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Immigrants to the Kingdom of Prussia
I think a reverse merge would be much better. Prussia is an ambiguous term that could mean the Province of Prussia among many other things.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I think you shouldn't have made the page in the first place. You should have used the pre-existing category and proposed renaming it. Mason (talk) 22:40, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Disability in Tajikistan


A tag has been placed on Category:Disability in Tajikistan indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:50, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
I'm glad to see that you are still around. Keep up the good work!

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:41, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Emigrants from the Kingdom of Bavaria
If we drop the Kingdom of Bavaria from this name it will not be obvious that this is meant to be limited to people who left the kingdom of Bavaria. I have tried with the Bavarian emigrants to the United States to limit it to people who left the Kingdom of Bavaria, and to remove those people who were leaving far more recently, such as multiple people who left in the second half of the 20th-century. At issue is that Bavaria the article is an article on the state as it exists today. If someone emigrates from Germany to the United Kingdom today, or did so in 1992, we do not want to have them end up in Bavarian emigrants to the United Kingdom, just because they lived in Munich before they Germany, or even if they lived in Munich all their life before leaving Germany. This is only justifiable during periods of time when Bavaria is a distinct state, with distinct political relations with others. Emigration is at heart a movement from one political unit to another, and so emigrant categories need to be tied to those politcal units. The term Bavarian is not primarily used for residents of the Kingdom of Bavaria, to exclusion of those who lived in Bavaria when it was fully part of larger political entities, so we need to make clear what is meant when we have Bavarian in the name. The actual expericne of people putting people who left after World War II in categories with just the Bavarian name, which is not at all what is meant to be covered in this category, shows why we do not want to use the Bavarian name alone. The article in question is Kingdom of Bavaria and we have Category:People from the Kingdom of Bavaria which this is a well named child of. It is really the other emigration categories that need to be renamed, not this one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:41, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your thoughts. I do appreciate them, as it is extremely helpful to hear a different perspective.
 * "Emigration is at heart a movement from one political unit to another, and so emigrant categories need to be tied to those politcal units."
 * I think that this is where you and I disagree. Because I don't think it matters for the most part, the specific politics of a place, that someone is leaving (obviously, certain regimes it does, like Nazi German etc). But for the most part, such as for German Kingdoms, I don't think we should be distinguishing politics and nationality for emigrants and expatriates. And as you've gathered from the conversations about similar categories, the consensus seems to be that it regime isn't a helpful distinction when you're leaving the regime for else where. Mason (talk) 18:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * You are ignoring what I actually said, and misrepresenting it. My main point is that if someone leaves Germany today, and they live in Munich, which is in Bavaria, we do not want to distinguish them from other emigrants. In 1868 the Kingdom of Bavaria was a fully independent kingdom, not under the control of any other place. Someone leaving there is clearly an emigrant from the Kingdom of Bavaria, just as someone leaving the Ottoman Empire in 1868 is an emigrant from the Ottoman Empire. The issue is we need a name so that someone leaving in 1868 will fit in the category, but people will not put those leaving today based on leaving. Your are misrepresenting my main argument and cheery picking a quote to them tear it down while ignoring my actual point.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The main issue is that we do not want people who leave Bavaria today in the category. The name of the category should clearly limit it to people who left Bavaria when it was more or less an indepdent state, not those leaving the Bavaria that exists today. You have misrepresented the fact that this is my main point in your summary of my comments. You have also chosen to totally ignore my analogy about the Republic of Texas and Texas leading to similar confusion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:55, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't ignore what you said. I read it, and selected what I considered to be the core of your reasoning, to make sure that others were aware that you had a different opinion. I provided them a link for the nuance without becoming a meat puppet. I understand that you believe that the distinction for Kingdom of Bavaria is important for the reasons you listed, independent kingdom, easy to confuse with German people who happen to come from Bavaria, etc.
 * I understood your point, appreciated that you spent the time to explain it, as it was genuinely helpful. (Where did you mention Texas? I don't see that in your explanation.) Mason (talk) 20:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * To start with, you need to define who you think belongs in this category. At present the assumption is we have Category:Emigrants from the Holy Roman Empire and Category:Emigrants from the German Empire. From 1805-1918 the Kingdom of Bavaria exists. It is precedded by the Electorate of Bavaria, and succeeded by the bascially by the Free State of Bavaria, which is what the article Bavaria links to. The Free State of Bavaria is essentially in its area the former Kingdom of Bavaria minus the Bavarian Platinate. The question that you need to answer is A-what scope of people do you want in Emigrants from Bavaria. I really think that the scope should be limited to 1806-1871. Before 1806 they would be in emigrants from the Holy Roman Empire, after 1871 they would be emigrants from the German Empire. Most people in Bavarian categories, are people born after 1918. For example in Businesspeople from Bavaria in the first 6 articles all were born after 1918. I am thinking we do not want to use these specific categories to seperate out immigrants from the current Germany by state, I think they are only justified with using the previous states. The one other option might be if we could find a name that could cover both people who emigrated from the Kingdom of Bavaria and the Electorate of Bavaria in one name, since they are essentially the same state for most purposes, but would exclude anyone from the post-1918 Bavaria. I do not think we can find a name that would easily do that task, and so I think it is best if we clearly link this to the Kingdom of Bavaria, because we do not want people who left after 1918 placed in the category at all. I think we most want those from 1806-1871, but the exact time to cover then is a bit more fuzzy. My main point is we do not want to split people leaving the current Germany by the state they are leaving, we only want people to be split by the past political units they left.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't need to do anything. I disagree that "we do not want to split people leaving the current Germany by the state they are leaving, we only want people to be split by the past political units they left". I think that if being from Bavaria is a defining feature of the person, they should belong in the Bavaria category. For emmigrants/expatriates, I do not think it matters what the political entity is they left. Mason (talk) 21:24, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Category:19th-century Albanian men has been nominated for deletion
Category:19th-century Albanian men has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

20th-century artists from the Russian Empire
If you do not think this category should be kept you have chosen the wrong target. In a discussion on the Soviet and Russian emigrants targets the example that museums have changed their captioning on artists from the Russian Empire was brought up. At one point thry were regularly called Russian. Today most museums identify them as from the Russian Empitlre and may call them by their ethnic group, be it Tartar, German, or something else. So it seems we should treat those from the Russian Empire as a distinct group. What is less than clear is in the case of a state that existed only 196 years if we really need any by century division at all. The best solution if you do not think we can justify a by century scheme is to upmerge to Artists from the Russian Empire. I really do not think this category needs yo be divided by century at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:15, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * >I really do not think this category needs yo be divided by century at all
 * Then why did you make the category in the first place? Mason (talk) 02:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Because I was trying to preserve existing categories for the article in question when editing. It is a least disruption policy. The primary point is the person was an artists and from the Russian Empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:48, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Dutch as sub-cat of Danish
Hi, I missed your reply at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_24 – it's best to ping users when replying.

I was not asking about bundling similar discussions, but about putting, , and  in , and that one in . Those still look mistaken to me. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:20, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Oh, thanks for clarifying! Yes, that was clearly a mistake on my end. Mason (talk) 13:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to rename category
Please see my proposal to speedily rename Category:20th-century Indian women physicians Hugo999 (talk) 02:24, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

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I do not think former is needed with Colonies and protectorates
I do not think it makes sense to say "former" British Colonies and Protrctorates. They may call them oversees Territories now, but we should be including Bermuda, Montserrat, the British Virgin Islands, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and other such oversees terrorizes in these categories just as much as places where British rule stopped. Former is not a word we need in these Category names.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I think that it makes sense to follow the category naming convention, which includes former. Mason (talk) 02:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Soldiers for the Russian Empire
We previously discussed the difficulty in formulating the right forms for various soldiers/military personnel categories. I am thinking we might be best served by making categories that use Military personnel for foo forms. So Soldiers from France, Soldiers from the Russian Empire, Soldiers from Mali, etc. I think this would also work for diplomats, spies and maybe some other occupations. In general these people are most defined by what country or country thry worked for even if they were nationals of another country. Unlike some occupations these are often done outside the employing country, so an in category would not group them at the scope we are looking for. In the Russian Empire of the early 19th century a large amount of the top leaders of the Army were people who were seen by the Russians as Germans, people born in the Holy Roman Empire who spoke German and were culturally German. Because of the political situation and other factors these people were not expatriates but essentially functional nationals of the Russian Empire. What unifies the army as a group is they are soldiers for the Russian Empire, not what country they work as soldiers in or where they lived or even what place counts them as citizens. With spies and diplomats this becomes even more obvious. There might be reason to have a category for French people who worked as duplomats regardless of what country they were employed by, but I would think we would treat that the same way as we do French writers and Feench language writers. Most French people over time who have been diplomats did so for France. So we would have Duplomats for France as the main category, and like how French writers includes people who are French who write in a language other than French, Diplomats for France would include people who were diplomats who their actually being French is less than clear, as long as they worked for France as a diploma. We could then if needed create Diplomats from Frane, or any similar category, if we had a large enough group of people who were nationals of France and diplomats but not for France. We might also create diplomats in France, to group all diplomats who worked in France, to an amount that was defining, regardless of where they were nationals of. I am not sure that is a good scheme though. Right now most people are in specific ambassador or expatriate categories. Enough of the articles we have on people who were diplomats are on consuls who mainly worked as merchants/businessmen and are often more notable for that than their government office that I am not sure it is Wirth categorizing by. Another group are career diplomats that were deployed over time to so many countries that I am not longer convinced that it was defining. I am not sure there is a firm way to determine when diplomatic or sports moving reaches a point where the specific countries worked in is no oonger defining, but I am sure there is such a point, and I am sure I gave in the past been responsible for categorizing beyond that point, and that we have lots of articles on both diplomats and sportpeople where the number of categories for various countries they worked in exceeds reasonability. Back to my Mai point. Do you think the Soldiers for, military personnel for, Diplomats for, spies for and maybe a few other such categories will work? This will be a lot of categories, although some of the lowest level categories that exist will not change. For example we have American Ambassadors to France. This vategory would stay, but it would get Diplomats for the United States instead of American diplomats as the category in its parent tree. I suggested this change in my recent post at Wikipedia:Categorization. I do not know if there might be another place to bring it up. I am thinking I will not change anything until we find a way to get a broad consensus and good understanding of what these categories will be named and what their contents are. Right now I am not convinced Category:Soldiers and some related Category names people have a good sense of what they mean or what the exact inclusion criteria are. I do not want to increase that mess, but lessen it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your careful thought about the category system. And I agree that we want to lessen the mess rather than add to it. however, I'm pretty hesitant to add a third way to relate people with nations, because we have nationality and country of work. My impression is that country of work would still be effective at handling diplomats in the matter you're describing. I need to think about this some more about how this would fit in. I think you could get other folks on board with such an implementation if you crafted a draft proposal on how the three types of relationships would work together, perhaps highlight the the difference between the present two nation/county system and how it would "mesh" for lack of a better work. I believe that would help you make a convincing case, while also demonstrating that you can work with others for categories. (It would probably help with your appeal of editing restrictions if it goes well.) Mason (talk) 02:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Albanians from the Ottoman Empire
For the record I believe I have previously stated I thought we should rename all these categories to Albanian people from the Ottoman Empire. I think some of the Sister categories, Greeks and Arabs for example, may also need to be changed to using people.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Actually Arabs does use people. However of the 14 subcategories of People from the Ottoman Empire, 4 of them use people, the other 10 do not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks for pointing this out! Mason (talk) 02:16, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Editing Categories for discussion
You deleted the discussion of Category:Blue Flowers at edit ID 1182356912. I have restored the content you deleted. Please be more careful when editing the discussions in the future. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 22:35, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * My apologies!!! Thank you for fixing it! Mason (talk) 23:01, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment
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November Articles for creation backlog drive
<div style="border: 2px solid #484898; background: #FFF; background-color:#98FB98; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 99%"> Hello Smasongarrison:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!

The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Category:9th-century Frankish people has been nominated for deletion
Category:9th-century Frankish people has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Jamie Shea
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Nomination of List of eldest sons of earls in the peerages of Britain and Ireland for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of eldest sons of earls in the peerages of Britain and Ireland is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/List of eldest sons of earls in the peerages of Britain and Ireland until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 06:01, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).



Administrator changes
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 * The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
 * There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.

Arbitration
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Principality of Neuchatel categories
I am pretty sure these categories should upmerge to the category for the canton if they are upmerged, not to the category for the city. Thry are essentially misplaced at present.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)


 * thanks -- that's helpful information Mason (talk) 15:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

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Death categories
So how death categories work ? Please explain. Frenchl (talk) 23:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that Deaths in FOO is only a containerized category. "while the place of a person's birth may seem significant from the perspective of local studies, is rarely defining from the perspective of the individual. The place of death is not normally categorized" (WP:OCLOCATION) People only get categorized into specific causes of death categories Mason (talk) 00:03, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

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"American Jews from..."
Hello!

So I wanted to get your opinion on something. As I mentioned somewhere else, the categories in Category:American Jews by state or territory were already present when I came across them. The names of the subcategories, however, the category, are not consistant with the names in Category:American Christians by state. It should be "Jews by *state name*", I believe, as it it is Category:Catholics from California or Category:Methodists from Tennessee (Note: parent categories are Category:American Catholics by state and Category:American Methodists by state or territory, respectively, so this move would make sense).

I wanted to get your opinion on this first, though, before I add it to full Cfd. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * good instinct! So clearly there's inconsistency between the categories. I think that it's definitely worth bringing it to cfd. You can check to see if there are other Jews by country subvision categories, in case there's a pattern outside the us. A cfd is great for getting the thoughts of the community as it is possible that there's a good reason for the difference. (But it's very likely that there's no good reason) Mason (talk) 14:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I did check but I haven't found any equivalent as such. I believe that only America has divisions by states. So I'm going by the formatting in Category:American Christians. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Do we need to intersect century and ethnicity ever?
I am thinking we would be better off scappong century and ethnicty categories period. John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I think that they're helpful for navigation; otherwise the categories would be too big. Mason (talk) 04:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

21st-century African-American people
I really think this should be a container Category, with only those people in occupations where the intersection has by century subcats, and we should keep occupation tightly defined. That is the way to avoid too many contents. So I could see maybe 21st-century African-American artists, where we are not violating last rung rules. Specifically we need to apply last rung rules as well, so if we gave 21st century American illustrators, sculptors, painters etc this will work. An about to emerge painter, Tanisha Mills, would be 21st century African-American artists and 21st-century American painter, and since she paints landscapes, also American landscape painter. And Painters from Michigan. This would work best if we did not have African-American painters as well. I think for ERGS purposes we generally should either sib-divide a Category to more specific occupations or to century, not both. Doing both leads to a nightmare of trying to make sure people are places in all the right categories. By gender categories have another interesting issue. We can place an article directly in African-American people, Albanian people from the Ottoman Empire or any other by ethnicity Category, however for gender we only place people in more specific, mainly by occupation categories, American eomen should have 0 Biographical articles. The same applies to African-American women. I think for this reason we should not have categories that intersect ethnicity, nationality and century at all. If we did they really should only be container categories yo hold the intersection of ethnicity, nationality, century and occupation. However that is a non-diffusion nightmare. If we have a person in 20th-century African-American women artists, she needs to be in a not diffused by gender cat in the 20th-century African-American artists cat, a not diffused by ethnicity cat of the 20th-century American woman artists cat, and a not diffused by race or gender cat of the 20th-century American artists cat, that is a minimum 4 cats by century. I think this is just too much.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:59, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think that's a good idea. Would you do the same for gender? Mason (talk) 16:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion I thanked you in recently
Your interlocutor is exceptionally deaf to any guidance, instruction, feedback, or informed disagreement -- their latest "I don't know how to take your advice" is undoubtedly accurate but is not limited to you. Of course you are welcome to continue beating your head against a brick wall if you enjoy that kind of thing (no kink-shaming here!) but I think from a practical standpoint there is nothing to be gained by it. Clear, unambiguous warnings when they misbehave, plus seeking administrative attention if it continues, seems like the best option to me. Just my 2c. Happy editing, JBL (talk) 20:49, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Lol, it's kind of impressive in a way. But my hope is to encourage their efforts into categories in ways that aren't destructive. Mason (talk) 20:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good luck! :)  --JBL (talk) 20:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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WP:1RR
In your edit here you lectured WhatamIdoing: "I think you should take this up on the talk page. This is a Manual of style. "Editors of policy and guideline pages are strongly encouraged to follow WP:1RR or WP:0RR standards" Undid revision 1190216645 by WhatamIdoing (talk)". I wonder if you realise that that was your second revert. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The text without the "all" has been in place since originally written November 2021. Two years. An editor added "all" a couple of weeks ago. WAID removed that yesterday with the comment "misleading" and left a note on the editor's user talk page. Perhaps it would have helped you if it was the article talk page. But your edit here asks WAID "how is it misleading". You know, you could have followed the guidance you yourself cited about guideline pages and just asked WAID how it was misleading, rather reinstating a recent change that got reverted by a longtime contributor to the page. I mean, if you don't know, it seems somewhat pointy to edit war this recent change back in.

I advise that you self revert, as a gesture of good will if nothing else. And discuss on the article talk page, where WAID has provided an explanation. Not getting involved in an edit war on P&G pages is always the best option. Edit warring while lecturing other people not to, is the worst option. -- Colin°Talk 17:45, 16 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advise. It seems that my edit has already been reverted, and I appriciate you filling me in as I didn't realize that the change was a new one. Mason (talk) 17:48, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Nth-century Fooian people categories
Regarding this edit, I've started a discussion at WT:Categorizing articles about people. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I just noticed User:Johnpacklambert recently raised similar/related issues above. You're welcome to join the linked discussion. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:14, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Joseph Abu Khalil
Why did you remove the category:Radio founders. He was a cofounder of a radio station per source. So, your edit will be reverted. Egeymi (talk) 04:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * If I recall, I moved him to the correctly-named radio company founder category Mason (talk) 12:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Opinion
Hello! I wanted your opinion on this Cfd discussion. Namiba and I haven't seen eye-to-eye since our first interaction, I'm afraid. I tried to reason with them in their talk page but they would not listen. The discussion would have been wrapped up but they have stepped in and derailed it by creating categories I think are not needed and opposing the nomination.

I don't mind them creating categories but the least they could have done is waited for the discussion to finish before proceeding because not ALL U.S. states need to have a "tennis people" category. Would you mind? Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * And I want to make it clear that I just want your opinion on the matter. I don't want you to vote for what I want, of course. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look! (And yeah, I just view this as you requesting some wikimentoring/thoughts/wisdom, not as an attempt to canvas) Mason (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated! Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * May I ask, is it wrong to ask another person to delete a page they created? I don't want to make any wrong steps, that's all. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I did ask Namiba to delete ONE category which had two pages (they have populated them since), but given their strong reaction in the discussion, I think I overstepped the mark which was clearly not my intention. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that from Namiba's perspective, it presumed that you nom was going to be successful. I think that it would probably have been better to have not asked because if the consensus ended up being with you, the category would have been deleted anyway. I can totally see how it's annoying that they created the category, but at the same time, it is helpful to see what the alternative scenario would have looked like, as in maybe there is a critical mass of coaches for a couple of categories. It can be hard to tell what other folks will feel strongly about. Mason (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess so. I did apologize to them. And I'll be more diplomatic going forward. Thanks, @Mason.
 * Um, while I'm here, I wanted to ask: for U.S. college athletes, you don't have to put in both the alumni and the athletes, right? For example, Sandy Koufax went to the University of Cincinnati as a baseball and basketball player. So I would put him in Category:Cincinnati Bearcats men's basketball players (and baseball) and NOT Category:University of Cincinnati alumni, correct?
 * I'm a bit confused by this particular policy so I wanted some clarification. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:41, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a great question! You're correct. I think that the way wikipedia treats alumni is that the alumni don't have to have graduated with their actual degree, which means that the athletes are nested under alumni category.  Mason (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! It's just I've seen pages of U.S. athletes where they are in both alumni AND athlete categories so was I wasn't sure which way was correct. Also, many alumi categories need diffusing and this could help a lot. Thanks! Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive
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Jewish Americans by occupation.
I would say that while I agree with your approach to Category:American Jews by occupation (i.e. comparison with Category:Jews by occupation), I would also see it through how American occupations are split as well. The states have a lot more notable Jewish people than other countries so they would not all match up. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I fully expect that some of pages will be kept. I often use CfD for categories that I can see the merits for both keeping and deleting. In the keep cases, I'll probably make the parent category myself if someone else doesn't beat me to it. Mason (talk) 21:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Makes sense certainly! Just thought that the other side (i.e. "American" of Jewish Americans) should be taken into consideration as well. But I agree that Category:Jews by occupation should be expanded a little. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * (I should have said this earlier...) Your thinking is very good on this issue! Mason (talk) 21:28, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! And thank you also becausee you helped me in understanding categorization! Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay so I actually made Category:Jewish lawyers. As it were, is a Category:Lawyers by ethnicity so it made sense to make one. Jewish Americans (due to their vast numbers compared to other countries) DO have the most but there are significant notable lawyers in other countries. I'm populating the category.
 * I think should make a subcategory in Category:Jewish film people for Category:Jewish film directors and so on. There were and ARE many notable Jewish people (American and non-American) in the film industry. But I wanted to ask about that one first. Omnis Scientia (talk) 07:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that making the parent categories is fine by me. I appreciate you asking. It seems that you can make a plausible case that the intersection is defining, and it looks like there is the case for the film industry (e.g., Jews in the history of American film). Mason (talk) 19:34, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The thing is some people feel strongly that the categories should be deleted because, in their mind, they aren't defining which, of course, I disagree with. And there are many categories up for discussion on the matter so that's why I asked. Likely, I will wait for them to close before I go forward with it. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Definitely, some folks feel quiet strongly about it. Your reasoning/concerns make sense to me. It might be easier to wait. My point was more that *I* wouldn't be bothered/take offense if you were to do it. Mason (talk) 19:44, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I would say you are more open-minded than most, including myself.
 * Thank you again for your time! I appreciate you hearing me out! Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:56, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

"Colonial Philippines" is not the name we want
The point is these are Spanish people in the Spanish East Indies, either when they were part of the Viceroyalty of New Spain, or when they were a province of Spain. "Colonisl Philippines", could also mean the Philuppines under American rule. We do not want to include Spanish people who are notable only for their residence in the Philippines under American rule. For similar reasons I really think we should rename the British people in British India. If the British person only was in Goa (Portuguese India), Pondicherry (French India) we do not want to include them. I am not sure there actually are British people who were in India only in areas under nom-British colonial rule, but we need a category name that does not include them if they exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:21, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

"State or territory"
Just a heads up. I believe the "state or territory" categories are going back to Cfd due to an opposed request in speedy. So we should wait before we continue processing any remaining ones. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up. Mason (talk) 15:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Category Deletion Review Discussion Requested
Please review the topic I added to the talk page of Category:Sámi writers for the category merger/deletion of Category:Bestselling Sámi authors. In short, it was styled after Category:Bestselling Swedish-language authors and Category:Bestselling case authors and I believe it is only fair that either no one can create a category with the description or that such descriptors can be created. Please note that the category was only intended to be used for authors whose books had made it to a recognized Bestseller list (for example Ann-Helén Laestadius: https://ahlanderagency.com/news/punished-1-on-svenska-dagbladets-best-bestsellers-list/ where Svenska Dagbladet is the second most read newspaper in Sweden: https://www.statista.com/statistics/705134/ranking-of-city-newspapers-in-sweden-by-number-of-readers/) and thus is a quantifiable number made by an actual institution with some regard. Perhaps there is a way to state this in the category's description and I didn't do a good job explaining it, thus I would appreciate the advice on how to do this for a category in the future (even if the creation of such types of categories is furthermore agreed to not be a good idea). In summary, that was the intent of the category (and it was not intended to be abused for any author in question), and to allow for better searching by web crawlers looking for a related search term. KnowTheManyHistories (talk) 20:33, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the message/context. I think that the problem is that the intent of your category is something that is not considered defining. It could be interesting as a wikipedia page, but not as a category. Mason (talk) 20:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I've nominated the category for discussion so you can get some more feedback on the category. Mason (talk) 20:43, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, much appreciated! KnowTheManyHistories (talk) 20:45, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 28
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Category:Edo literature
Hi there, hope you’re doing just great. So I saw you nominated the Category:Edo literature for speedy renaming to Category:African literature. May I ask that you withdraw it yourself as I think you’re missing something.

The category is mainly for the literature in Edo language just as we have Category:Japanese literature for Japanese language. This Edo literature category is supposed to be an extension of Category:Nigerian literature not even directly on African literature.

So, I ask you to reconsider and withdraw? Many thanks. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 05:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I understand your argument, but the category only contained the same-named page Edo language. You can contest the nomination, but I won't withdraw it. Mason (talk) 05:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well the category now contains a subcat you’ll find. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 05:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

County commissioners
County Commissions are called all sorts of things, and they have multiple functions. This actually also applies to city councilors. Some are called commisioners as well, and some are called aldermen. At root it is not always clear if county commissionaers are legislators, executives, or both. Most are both, which is what city commissioners are. Some counties have only 3 county commissioners, making it clear thst thry are the execuive board with legislative power. On the other hand some counties have execuitives, but still call the commisioners commisioners. Others call the county jydhmges, coubty legislatures, or the county council. Some counties have a county mayor. Massachusetts and Connecticut do not have filunctionsl counties at all, a few other states have various unitary city/counties. I just had a thought. I will bs back.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Our article is called county Commissioner. It present the norm as the commission being the wxecutive and the Legislative. It admits some counties higher a manager, and some have an executive. It says the norm in 3-5, but Georgia has counties with 1 Commissioner. I think the iluse of the term as an article name is telling. Still my ld County, Macomb had I think about 15 or more commissioners when they were the executive authority in the county, but they now have fewer and a county executive. The county also elects a sheriff, prosecutor, clerk, treasurer and I think even a public works Commissioner, so the actual executive power of the county was limited. In some ststes in the southern US counties have virtually no law making authority. Wayne County, Michigan where I live has an executive and a county commission. I do some what wonder, does it matter what county elective office a person held, but I can see arguments that county prosecutors and county sheriff are unique since one is part of the prosecutor group and the other a law enforcement authority. However I am unconvinced county executives, elected county clerks, elected county treasurers, elected county puuc workers commissioners and elected county commissioners, legislators, councilors and judges when they are executive or Legislative and not judicial are different enough to need separate categories. We want to categorize by shared office, not shared name. A county Commissioner in Wayne County Michigan or Macmb County Michigan who has to deal with a county executive does not have a shared office with a county commissioner who is part of a commission that is an executive board. Of course a weak mayor who is the 1st among equals on a city council in a city run by a city manager as they have in Sterling Heights is not at all the same as a mayor like we have here in Detroit, called a strong mayor. Yet we have categories gor Mayors that overall group all leaders of cities, however they were elected, appointed, inherited the office, took it by military force. At least we have mayor categories stretching back into ancient times. Many city leaders may be seen as something else and not Mayors.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We have 3 articles though, at least, that consider these 3 separate topics. County council, which goes to consider things outside the US, and County board of supervisors. The Commissioner article is wrong, since I can name Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties in Michigan that have County commissioners who are not the executive. I Diana has both a commission and a council for every county except Marion. The Marion County government is the same as the Indianapolis government, with a mayor and city council.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It gets better. In Michigan until 1968 some counties had a board of supervisros that was the supervisor (elected head) of each Township collectively running the county with each having 1 vote. Since townships are roughly equal in size this was ended by 1 man 1 vote rulings. New York has 16 counties that still do this, but the supervisors get proportionate votes. John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * pre-1974 all Louisian parishes (which is their name for counties) were run by a group called the police jury. Some still are. In Kentucky the body is called the fiscal court.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)