Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 28

Proposed New article: China in modern Africa
This is my second intended article to start after the above one is done. I want to talk about china's influence, assistance to despotic regimes, trading relations, infrastructure projects, immigration, political relations, history, natural resource exporting with each particular African country all on one page. China is making a push into Africa for economic and political reasons so I think all the info should be on one page to give people a broad picture of what's going on instead of having the picture broken up into dozens of pages which are hard to find. I would want to integrate/connect the two following pages into the proposed article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa%E2%80%93China_economic_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa%E2%80%93China_relations. If anyone is interested or has any suggestions on how to go about this please get into contact with me. ThanksNotgoingtotellyou (talk) 01:08, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposed new article-Western corporate assistance in Chinese government internet censorship
I have found a few articles on the ecommons about Western companies such as Cisco and other high tech technology makers knowingly assisting the Chinese (and other repressive regimes) to censor their own people or block access to sites. This would also include microsoft, the former google in China before they departed and others that make software. I read a good book on the subject and it was called "Losing the New China-A story of American Commerce, Desire, Betrayal" by Ethan Gutmann that was very enlightening. It didn't go into great details though so maybe I'll have to take a look at the bibliography to see what his sources were. If anyone has any interest in working/helping out on this article I'd be greatly obliged. Thanks Notgoingtotellyou (talk) 12:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Social Credit System
I've started an article on the proposed Chinese Social Credit System. This is clearly a real initiative, but very little firm information seems to be available about what it might involve in detail, and there seems to be a lot of speculation and rumor going around about the exact level of mass surveillance that this is going to involve (particularly surveillance of social media activity), that seems to consist mostly of re-reporting of sources re-reporting others. Any help from people who can read Chinese are are familiar with any part of this situation would be welcome. -- The Anome (talk) 14:55, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Where should the flag of the Qing dynasty be used?
Early battles before the adaptation of the Yellow Dragon Flag, such as the Battle of the Bogue, do not contain the flag in the infobox, and some that happened after the adaptation, such as the Battle of Yingkou, do. However, while reading about the Ten Great Campaigns, I saw that some infoboxes did contain the flag but it was way before the flag existed. So the question is, should all articles of Qing battles contain the flag or should we follow the time of adaptation?

On a side note, there are different variations of the flag (multiple different versions of different files are used). The one in the Qing dynasty article doesn't seem to match that in the Flag of the Qing dynasty article. Which is the standard (forgive the pun)? The Average Wikipedian (talk) 16:10, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I say go with the date of adaptation and remove them all from dates before. As for the flag itself, the one on the Flag of the Qing dynasty article is user-generated from OpenClipArt Library, and seems to be based on an American handbook for sailors. Hence, it glosses over some details, most obviously that the dragon's scales were rendered as a criss-cross pattern instead. I am inclined to believe that the one on the Qing dynasty article was closer to the standard. For reference, the Guomindang Party Archives (國民黨黨史館) in Taipei has a Qing flag that flew during the 12-day Manchu Restoration in 1917, and it looked like this: _dk (talk) 17:54, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with that it is anachronistic to use a flag that was not invented until many years later, as if an article on the colonial period of American history used the present-day stars and stripes.ch (talk) 20:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, but how are we going to find the instances of these misplaced flags? It appears to be a popular mistake. For now I suppose I should just "grind through it". The Average Wikipedian (talk) 10:49, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree -- it's not that that we must immediately extirpate every wrong use, but that we should try not to allow the anachronistic use to spread and to cut it when we come across it.ch (talk) 00:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Which topic would these sources belong to?
I found some interesting sources, but I'm not sure which topic they would belong to... WhisperToMe (talk) 04:00, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Qiang, Ren (Peking University) and Donald J. Treiman (University of California, Los Angeles). "The Consequences of Parental Labor Migration in China for Children’s Emotional Well-being" (Archive). Population Studies Center, University of Michigan Institute for Social Research. Report 13-799. August 2013.
 * Zhou, Chengchao, Sean Sylvia, Linxiu Zhang, Renfu Luo, Hongmei Yi, Chengfang Liu, Yaojiang Shi, Prashant Loyalka, James Chu, Alexis Medina, and Scott Rozelle. "China’s Left-Behind Children: Impact Of Parental Migration On Health, Nutrition, And Educational Outcomes." Health Affairs. November 2015 vol. 34 no. 11 1964-1971. DOI: 10.1377/hlthaff.2015.0150
 * That would be Migration in China, I think. Kanguole 11:38, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 21:58, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Galleries of notable individuals in infoboxes of articles about ethnic groups
Just a heads-up: a globally-advertised RFC (WP:NOETHNICGALLERIES) has been closed with a decision that galleries of notable individuals should be deleted from infoboxes of articles about ethnic groups. Several articles within the scope of this project will be affected. Kanguole 17:13, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
 * When I go to the link it just takes me to the general MoS page. I'm not seeing the new rules and/or RfC. WhisperToMe (talk) 10:17, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The link has since been switched to the "Images for the lead" section of the MOS/Images page. Point 4 of that section is the relevant one, and includes a link to the RFC.  Kanguole 11:26, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Bad page moves
Can a sysop please fix these recent unilateral moves? They're nonsensical: mainspace articles have now been moved to WP-space for some reason, and there's all sorts of bad capitalisations. The moves were undiscussed and don't follow any sort of consensus. The page should belong at East Asian cultural sphere. -- benlisquare T•C•E 07:32, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I think I've taken care of it. Please let me know if I missed anything. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 08:00, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the talk page (currently at Talk:East asian sphere) also needs to move back. Kanguole 10:52, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, there's still the talk page. Other than that, I think everything's covered. -- benlisquare T•C•E 11:05, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 22:55, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Module talk:Zh
Could do with some additional viewpoints and input on a written language issue at Module talk:Zh, in this thread. Thanks.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 00:57, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

New proposed article the Chinese product quality control/ factory auditing market/industry both foreign and local players.
Notgoingtotellyou (talk) 18:21, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Hainan Seamen
Regarding the new stub Hainan Seamen, could someone pls speedy, AfD, PROD, source, comment at its talk, etc? Many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:54, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

It's been PRODded. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:35, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Help with citation
Hello everyone! I have been working on Heart with some other editors and we have reached a loggerheads when finding sources for the "Society and culture" section. I would be very grateful if an editor knowledgable here could help correct and cite this paragraph about the Heart in Chinese history:

Hoping to hear from you soon! --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * The first sentence, without the parenthetical, can be cited from   White Whirlwind  咨   22:31, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks! --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:18, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

China experts requested at redirects for discussion
Please comment at Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 February 6. Most of us RfDers don't have the expertise on this topic. Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 06:24, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Some input on a question related to the Chinese literature article?
Hey!

I posted this because I assumed an article of that size and importance would have a lot of people watching its talk page. I may have been right, but when I checked the page history I noticed the last edit before mine was almost two years ago, so I think it's unlikely my proposal will attract much attention where it is now. I would take this an indication that I can be WP:BOLD and implement it myself, but I'd like some more input anyway if anyone is interested?

Basically I think the article's breakdown into sections based on genre and only loosely providing some sort of chronology to the readers should be scrapped, and a more clearly chronological "history of Chinese literature" narrative should be put up in its place.

Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:29, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits to Confucius Institute
Can some of you please take a look at Confucius Institute? I'm particularly worried about the recent edits that added a significant amount of material to the article that appears to be inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. This is particularly worrisome for me because these institutes are state-sponsored units explicitly charged with promoting Chinese culture and language (with some history of inappropriate state control and censorship of institutes on university campuses) so I would not be at all surprised if editors with specific POVs and COIs were to edit this article. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 16:53, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The article was full of POVy material from both promoters and detractors. I've trimmed it down quite a bit, but it's probably never going to be completely NPOV. -Zanhe (talk) 17:42, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Little boxes, little boxes
Articles on Chinese topics seem to be infested with boxes that made them look ugly, are there better ways of incorporating them into just one or two single boxes, or into the main infoboxes? For example, in the article for Bai Juyi, we have two separate boxes for the names, would it not be better to use just one box? Also is the box useful at all? If it is necessary, wouldn't it be simpler to incorporate into the infoboxes or other boxes? Hzh (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Chinese articles in general suffer from a lack of bilingual editors. There aren't that many active editors who have both adequate cultural and linguistic background and decent English writing skills. If you think you can improve the articles in any way, just go ahead and do it. The notice is a dinosaur from the past decade, and it's been agreed that it's outlived its usefulness. I've removed hundreds of them. In the case of Bai Juyi, I agree it makes no sense to list his alternative names so prominently. Ancient Chinese literati often used a bewildering number of names (I believe Su Shi had like 100 or so), and we should only mention a few most commonly used ones. -Zanhe (talk) 20:38, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I seem to remember having said that  should be deprecated, and I happen to agree:  it's 2016, for crying out loud, and that template was most useful 10 to 15 years ago.  I also agree that listing individuals' variety of names is unnecessary, and  with their one or two most notable names is nearly always sufficient.   White Whirlwind  咨   20:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't object to multiple names as such, because I do think they are useful in informing the current generation of the cultural norm of the past, and some of the alternate names are well-known. I just think it would be better to tidy them up into a single box, and will need some ways of doing it. Hzh (talk) 21:05, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

If someone wants to start a Centralized discussion (CD) then it may be possible to achieve consensus to dump the template altogether and put an apposite hatnote on the source page linked to the CD. I think it's a wide enough issue for that forum although it could be handled by a !vote here. Comments welcome. Philg88 ♦talk 23:01, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If there is no strong objection here, then it could just be removed wherever we see it, rather than go through another round of discussion. There is also the  on the China article (I hadn't realized there are actually two separate ones), albeit a small one . Hzh (talk) 04:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

edit of "Qiu Zhijie" was deleted by ClueBotLuly268 (talk) 06:45, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
Dear all,

I have a more systematic and comprehensive version of bio of "Qiu Zhijie", the Chinese artist. But my edit of the current entry was deleted by ClueBotLuly268 (talk) 06:45, 7 March 2016 (UTC). I reported it but haven't heard back after a week. Anyone can tell me what to do and how I can modify the entry of "Qiu Zhijie" without being identified as vandals again by the ClueBot?

Thank you!


 * I undid ClueBot's revert of your edit, I'm not sure why it tagged it as vandalism. Follow up with the bot's maintainers.   White Whirlwind  咨   10:00, 7 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It was wrong for ClueBot to identify 's edit as vandalism, but it was correct to revert the edit per WP:BLP, as Luly268 removed all existing sourced content and replaced it with completely unsourced material written in a promotional tone. -Zanhe (talk) 19:07, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Iwane Matsui GAR
Iwane Matsui, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.

Disambiguation by adding one of the tone marks to a name?
Emperor Xuānzong of Tang? Wouldn't Emperor Xuanzong of Tang (ninth century) or some such be better? Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:52, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think using the tone mark to disambiguate is not a good idea unless there was no other way to do it. People who have not studied Chinese language or culture before will not understand the difference plus it is not easy for a normal English language reader to type in the name.

Since there are other ways here, then they should be used. For example, the lede of the article Emperor Xuānzong of Tang mentions that it is sometimes the practice, in English, to give him ordinals such as Xuanzong II. If the ordinals is indeed used in sources, then if fits in with WP:COMMADIS, "Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title." Rincewind42 (talk) 02:00, 29 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think ordinals should be used here, because ordinals imply the names are identical, which is not the case. Their names use different characters and have different pronunciations, it's just the difference becomes obscured when transcribed in English. -Zanhe (talk) 02:11, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason why we should't use tonal marks if its use is strictly limited to cases of article disambiguation only; Vietnamese seems to use these diacritics everywhere even when disambiguation is not an issue. Colipon+ (Talk) 02:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't say anything about ordinals. In fact I made a specific suggestion. Are there any reliable sources that distinguish these two by giving one of the tone marks (not both) on only the latter emperor's name? Why no tone mark on zong? Am I missing something? Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 09:37, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * And several of you seem to think I am saying we shouldn't be using diacritics -- why would you mention Vietnamese articles? I am not saying we shouldn't be giving a tone mark on either of the characters; I am saying we shouldn't be giving the tone mark on one of the characters if not the other, only for some completely bizarre means of disambiguation. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 14:19, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Tonal marking is meaningless to the great majority of English readers, I would say if there is another better way of disambiguating a title, then that would be the better way. Hzh (talk) 20:06, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Can everyone here agree that one thing we don't want is to disambiguate using a tone mark on one syllable of the name and not on the other? This was introduced into the article by the original editor and has not been modified since, so I would assume it is idiosyncratic.


 * Generally, there is widespread use of pinyin less tone marks, and I would tend to prefer that style for the English Wikipedia. Vietnamese has a different social context partly because the Roman alphabet is their main writing system. I have the vague impression that formal sources are less likely to write Vietnamese without tone marks, but I'm not very familiar with Vietnam-oriented publications. – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 17:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Help finding sources?
Can anyone help find sources for the article for Magic Michael Lam? It was up for speedy deletion but there was just enough of an assertion of notability to where he could pass speedy criteria. There isn't much coverage for him at all in English and none of it can be used to establish notability on here since it's mostly e-commerce sites and various forum mentions. Since he's from Hong Kong and is primarily active in China and Japanese, I figured that coverage would likely be in something other than English. I'm going to post here and to WP:JAPAN asking for help finding sources. I tried searching using the characters in the article, but I couldn't find much since I'm not entirely sure if it's correct and also because the search predominantly brings up a psychologist by the same name. Refining it would require more than just a cut/paste and Google Translate.

I'm going to nominate this for deletion but I'd like for this article to have a fighting chance if there are other sources out there. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  06:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Sketchy edits by User:Iching4096, User:HeSeaBlueDogJueyin, and User:Xiangzi9
This is a copy of my post at WP:Help desk; User:Maproom suggested that I contact someone here:

These users seem to have added a lot of cryptic, obtuse text to Chinese mysticism pages that just doesn't sit right with me. Although I believe that this editor (I assume they are the same person-- IMO they have highly similar editing patterns) is editing with good faith, it seems like the content they add, to put it as candidly blunt as possible, is crackpot mystic BS. Perhaps another more experienced editor could look at it? —suzukaze (t・c) 05:42, 21 March 2016 (UTC)


 * This might be a good situation for an admin like to look into.   White Whirlwind  咨   07:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the ping . AFAICS these editors don't seem to be acting disruptively. English is obviously not their first language and they are clearly unfamiliar with the policies and guidelines here. If it bothers that much, they could always try the Fringe noticeboard.  Philg88 ♦talk 10:43, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Carp scale
Can a Chinese-speaker take a look at Carp scale. I suspect that the subject is not notable but all the references are in Chinese. Thanks, Pichpich (talk) 17:35, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note that the article is now up for deletion: Articles for deletion/Carp scale. Help from native speakers of Chinese would be greatly appreciated. Pichpich (talk) 18:46, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Finding Chinese names of individuals from the 1920s in the U.S.
I notice that Gee Jon doesn't have his Chinese name but I'm not sure where I would find it. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Searching for  ("Hip Sing Tong" "lethal gas") in Google led to only one page, that calls him 朱贊 (Jyutping: zyu1 zaan3). Since it's only that page, I don't know how trustworthy it is. (The Google results for   are equally meager.) —suzukaze (t・c) 06:08, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * (Searching in Simplified Chinese produces a Mandarin transliteration of "吉·乔恩" that is almost certainly not his native Chinese name. —suzukaze (t・c) 06:14, 25 March 2016 (UTC))
 * Thanks for exploring the issue! I wonder if Hip Song Tong records would reveal what the name is WhisperToMe (talk) 22:54, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject China/Shenzhen workgroup
Shenzhen is a city of more than 14 million inhabitants and arguably one of the fastest growing cities in the world. But perhaps due to it being a newly established city, a lot of people know little or even nothing about its existence. It needed much more attention and that's the reason why this WikiProject workgroup was started. It is separated from the Chinese Cities workgroup because Wikipedia's coverage about individual Chinese cities is way from being encyclopedic, and we should focus on bringing the quality of articles of each city up individually--China is not a small place.

I have set up a this workgroup particularly focusing on Shenzhen for a while now. But due to the lack of local Shenzhen editors I am currently in touch with, this project is still very much stagnant. This is why I am here posting this: this workgroup needs help.

So see if you can join this WikiProject, then slowly but surely we will improve the coverage of Shenzhen-related articles. By participating, simply add your name here, Thank you!

Wishds (talk) 10:53, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Does the WikiProject template have the ability to mark it as a Shenzhen work group article? If so I can add the tag to article. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:53, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't see one for Shenzhen but I could add:

|TF_11_LINK          = Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Shenzhen work group |TF_11_NAME          = Shenzhen work group |TF_11_IMAGE         = Shenzhen_in_Chinese.png |TF_11_QUALITY       = yes |tf 11 importance= |TF_11_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Shenzhen work group articles |TF_11_MAIN_CAT      = Shenzhen work group articles |TF_11_PORTAL        = Shenzhen
 * tf 11=

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:58, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure to be honest...Can you help with this?

PS: a minor mistake, its WikiProject China not Christianity

Wishds (talk) 05:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * - Thanks for catching that! Do you want me to go ahead and add the functionality to the template? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:13, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * : Yes, if that's possible. I struggle a bit with these relatively technical parts of the website to be honest. Wishds (talk) 03:55, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Dictionary template surplus
There are two overlapping Chinese dictionary templates, and I've started working to merge Template:Chinese dictionaries into Template:Dictionaries of Chinese. The corresponding zh and ja interwiki links are Template:汉语辞书 and Template:漢語辞書. I've started by updating the List of Chinese dictionaries, adding overlooked works from the two templates and the Category:Chinese dictionaries.

Here are some questions about revising the Template:Chinese dictionaries layout. Before I add the supplementary dictionaries into the template and arrange them chronologically, I wanted to request opinions or suggestions. Thanks, Keahapana (talk) 02:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Currently group1 = "Chinese dictionaries" and group2 = "Foreign dictionaries of Chinese, Chinese characters or Sino-Xenic vocabularies" ( quite a mouthful). Wouldn't it be better to change these to "Monolingual dictionaries" and "Bilingual dictionaries"? Or simply "Monolingual" and "Bilingual" since the title is Dictionaries of Chinese?
 * The ja interwiki template has an 逸書 category. Should we add something like a lost works category (with Shizhoupian, Cangjiepian, etc.)? Or mark them with an asterisk?
 * Translating Zìdiǎn 字典 as "Character dictionaries" is fine, but rendering Cídiǎn 詞典 as "Phrase dictionaries" seems awkward. Wouldn't "Word dictionaries" be more natural and accurate? Of course, there are Chinese phrase dictionaries like John Rohsenow's enjoyable ABC Dictionary of Chinese Proverbs 汉英谚语词典.
 * Under bilingual character dictionaries, the only example is a redlink Hán Việt Tự điển. I'll add Karlgren's GSR, and there may be more. Should we delete this Chinese-Vietnamese dictionary or leave it?

Mandarin and Chinese
A whole bunch of language redirects are being messed about with, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 April 1 for the discussions -- 70.51.46.39 (talk)

Is Bertha Sneck notable?
The claims in the article are not very strong, but I can't read the references. Anyone? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:45, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * No, certainly not on the English Wikipedia. The 1st source wouldn't open for me, the second barely mentions her, and the third is a self-published remembrance from a Chinese person who met her and tells the story.   White Whirlwind  咨   07:12, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Prodding. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

The Prod has been removed, and more sources added. There are now three references and six external links. I'd appreciate a review from someone who can read Chinese before I consider AfD. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:04, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Can anyone help? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:44, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Article on Chinese adoptions?
Is there an article about adoptions in China? I found a source that could be useful about that: WhisperToMe (talk) 15:41, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Cook, Jenna (Chinese name: 夏华斯) "A ‘Lost’ Daughter Speaks, and All of China Listens" (Archive). Foreign Policy. March 30, 2016. Chinese version: "‘弃女’发声：全中国倾听" (Archive)

Formatting
Hi! I am Peterye2005. I am a new Wikipedia user. I was trying to create an article about Huayang, Shaanxi, China, and I ran into an issue with the citations and the Chinese characters. Here it is: DRAFT:Huayang, Shaanxi. I was wondering if anyone could help me? Peterye2005 (talk) 19:37, 27 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think the article should be created. There's currently no Huayang City: it's the name that Luonan County is trying to adopt, but it hasn't been approved. You should just edit the Luonan article instead, and move the article if the renaming proposal is approved. By the way, please don't use user-generated sources such as Baidu Baike, they're not considered WP:Reliable Sources. -Zanhe (talk) 00:12, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the message. I have made some edits to Luonan County.

Peterye2005 (talk) 01:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

On whether a prison should be mentioned in an article about a Chinese municipality
Re: User_talk:WhisperToMe

There is a dispute on whether the Sichuan Provincial Women's Prison is in Yangma Town (养马镇) should be mentioned in the Jianyang, Sichuan article

argues that in order to list the prison, we need "a reliable source that this prison (of 44 employees) plays any important role to the region (of 1 million people)." - In other words he/she thinks that if no such source is found the prison should not be mentioned. (By the way according to the Chinese source the clinic and/or administration seem to have 44 employees) (Chinese text from source: "现有医务和管理人员共44人. ")

I argue that it is not necessary and counterproductive to make that demand, because people looking at the municipality article would want to know if a provincial prison or other major piece of infrastructure would be inside the municipality. For example if a city in New Jersey or California had a state prison (roughly the equivalent of a Chinese provincial prison but usually with only sentenced prisoners) we would just flat out state it in the article and not make this demand of the person putting it in. We would not ask people "please provide evidence that it's a major employer" - I also argue that there is very little content in Jianyang, Sichuan anyway and that it may as well be included WhisperToMe (talk) 17:15, 11 April 2016 (UTC)


 * initially argued that "Prisons are usually highly important to the regional economies.", which sounds odd to me, thus I'd like to get any proof it is really the case. Now he basically asserts it is important by definition, no source is needed, and any argument about this is counterproductive. Sorry, I do not get it. Vikizh (talk) 18:23, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In the United States at least it's been well documented: Kilborn, Peter T. "Rural Towns Turn to Prisons To Reignite Their Economies." The New York Times. August 1, 2001. - "As in many other small towns around the country, a three-year-old, $37 million, 1,440-inmate, 270-employee, all-male prison is responsible for lifting Sayre's spirits and reigniting its economy." - For a small town that' a big deal
 * The general practice is that major works of public infrastructure such as airports, public high schools, etc. are expected to be mentioned in Wikipedia articles about small municipalities and/or districts of larger cities
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 18:29, 11 April 2016 (UTC)


 * It is a good move for you to provide source this time. However we're talking about a county of 1-million population, not a town of 4,114. Considering WP:WEIGHT this section does not fit here well. Vikizh (talk) 18:41, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:WEIGHT is more of an issue IMO when the article is larger (there's almost nothing in Jianyang, Sichuan at the moment), and in any case a major Chinese provincial prison (like an American state prison) would be notable under Wikipedia guidelines. In addition communities in general in China are larger than their American counterparts: a county of under 1 million is a "small town" in Chinese standards. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:57, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I can see why it would be awkward to place it there if it is literally a bare-bones introduction followed by the mention of the prison. So I think we can use this as an opportunity to simply improve the Jianyang article overall, then I don't think we would face too many problems making passing mention of the prison. Reminds me of the Liupanshui article when it only contained the contents: "Liupanshui is a city in Guizhou province, China. It has a Wal-Mart." Colipon+ (Talk) 19:04, 11 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Let me rephase my previous comment here: the nytimes article tells us that there is a prison that is important for a 4,114-person town, but this conclusion should not be generalized that any prison is usually important for their township, let along for a million people county. And no, in no ways a 1.5 million county is a small town even in China. The Chinese wiki article 简阳市 contains a lot of information about the county. It is a pity that nobody bothers to update English wiki though. Vikizh (talk) 19:34, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know the historical population of the county, but in this case a prison can also be important for a growing suburb of a larger city which may have previously been a small town, and/or an established medium-sized city.
 * The most well-known state prison for men in New Jersey is in the middle of the state, capital, Trenton (84,913 people): Trenton,_New_Jersey
 * Near Houston there is a prosperous suburb named Sugar Land (which happens to have a lot of Chinese people). It was previously a small town that housed Imperial Sugar's operations, and The Sugar Land Airport was built to serve the prison. The prison remained as Sugar Land grew from a rural town to a suburb of Houston. Eventually land was sold off until the whole prison was closed (see "What is the history of convict leasing in Sugar Land?." from Rice University) - Sugar Land today has around 86,777 people, and yet the prison is clearly a part of its history.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 00:31, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

I have been motivated by this discussion to improve the article. Now that WEIGHT is no longer an issue, I have added mention of the prison to the article. Colipon+ (Talk) 15:07, 12 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your contribution. The article is now in much better shape than before. Vikizh (talk) 18:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I am hoping this will encourage some of you to edit the similar articles in the future! Colipon+ (Talk) 19:19, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Image in Infobox Chinese
Several instances of now have images of the characters in the pic parameter, e.g. Tofu or Book of Documents. This seems like redundant clutter to me, especially if we already have an image to put there. If we want big characters, can't we just fix the font in the box? What do others think? Kanguole 16:52, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I've added many of them, and have changed most of the pre-existing ones to a more "normal" kaiti font, as many of them were previously in a strange quasi-xingshu font. Having a nice kaiti or other font in a SVG looks nice to me, and mostly obviates our current problem of font illegibility and variation across different platforms, browsers, and screen resolutions (particularly in articles like Yuan dynasty or Qing dynasty where unusual scripts like Mongolian and Manchu are involved).  It also hasn't bothered me much to move the images out of the  (I never actually delete the images from the article), as it's a box that contains purely linguistic content, so having linguistic "imagery" in the box seems apropos.  If we reach a consensus that they're undesirable, though, my feelings won't be hurt and I would of course remove them.   White Whirlwind  咨   18:02, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Poor translation?
In Xinxiu Station, "新秀" has been translated "Rookie", which is what Google Translate spits out. Is "New Horizons" or something else a more correct/appropriate translation? ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 11:19, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's named after the road above the station, Xinxiu Road. I don't think adding a literal translation is helpful in this case. 秀 is a positive term to describe plants though, and 新秀 became a metaphor to refer to budding new talents, ie. rookies. _dk (talk) 13:44, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- I have removed it. ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 03:25, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

70,000 Character Petition
I've created the page 70,000 Character Petition as a translation from the French article using the Translation tool. There's a lot of post-processing to fix up cruft left over from the tool, but wanted to let you know about the article. Mathglot (talk) 05:31, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Rui En
Template:Rui En has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. 70.51.46.195 (talk) 07:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Chai Zemin
Will someone knowledgeable from this project look at this page and make sure I have not misidentified the subject of the photo? (I believe it is Chai Zemin but want to make sure I'm not wrong.) Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:14, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Landmarks of China
I'm thinking of starting "Landmarks of China" or "List of landmarks of China". Since there is not such category, please feel free to add any notable items to User:Anna Frodesiak/Blue sandbox and I will take it from there. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Never mind. I just found List of tourist attractions in China which covers it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Auto-assessment of article classes
Following a recent discussion at WP:VPR, there is consensus for an opt-in bot task that automatically assesses the class of articles based on classes listed for other project templates on the same page. In other words, if WikiProject A has evaluated an article to be C-class and WikiProject B hasn't evaluated the article at all, such a bot task would automatically evaluate the article as C-class for WikiProject B.

If you think auto-assessment might benefit this project, consider discussing it with other members here. For more information or to request an auto-assessment run, please visit User:BU RoBOT/autoassess. This is a one-time message to alert projects with over 1,000 unassessed articles to this possibility. ~ RobTalk 22:22, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe we actually did a run like this a while back, but maybe it would be good to do another. I'll add our name unless someone objects.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:15, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll do pre-parsing now to give you an estimate of how many pages would be auto-assessed. I'll have an answer in the morning. ~ RobTalk 06:54, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * This task would assess 1,394 articles for this project (give or take the few that may be tagged or assessed between now and when the task runs). ~ RobTalk 08:23, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Since there's been some support and no opposition for over a week, you may want to consider listing the project. The first tagging runs will probably start shortly; I'm waiting on the bot approval at the moment. I'm taking this page off my watchlist, but feel free to ping me if you need me for anything. ~ RobTalk 22:36, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

What Chinese character has the pinyin "ming" and represents the sun and moon?
This Houston Chronicle article about the Mandarin Chinese Language Immersion Magnet School describes a certain character: "The design of the $32.2 million campus focuses on the Chinese character Ming, a sun and moon concept[...]" - Is this enough information to determine which character it is?

WhisperToMe (talk) 21:31, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
 * 明 explains it Siuenti (talk) 21:35, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 01:06, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

RFD input requested (Leih Baahk 李白)
Please comment on the discussion here. Thank you, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:18, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

If someone has time
Heritage of Xiguan is obviously at the wrong location and its running text makes very little sense as well. Any idea what it's talking about or where it should go? — Llywelyn II   01:05, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * A list of heritage sites in Xiguan, I'm guessing. Not the sort of list that Wikipedia if for though, since it doesn't add value that categorization cannot cover. _dk (talk) 01:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As long as the articles are created and categories added, sure. It shouldn't simply be deleted, though. — Llywelyn II   08:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Chinese funeral rituals
currently begins
 * ...cremation being uncommon in China...

so I'm guessing it needs a lot of work if anyone here is interested in the subject. — Llywelyn II   08:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Southern Ming and Tungning
More views would be welcome at a discussion at Talk:Ming dynasty on whether the Kingdom of Tungning should be treated as part of the Southern Ming. Kanguole 15:36, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Mao Zedong
See here, but it's a pretty major and generally well-done page that has an anachronism that needs fixing. — Llywelyn II   17:32, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Yakoob Beg's Children and Judicial Proceedings
I have read Yaqub_Beg, and I have some questions on the status of Yakub Beg's children. I have seen some primary sources that suggest that they had their court judgments commuted to life in prison, however, I do not know what good secondary sources there are that provide accurate information.

There is a secondary source here that seems to indicate that the original sentences were upheld & they were punished more harshly; assuming we are taking this statement as accurate, the English primary source are contradicted: Dowager Empress CiXi

Primary Sources: Clarence King Memoirs: The Helmet of Mambrino

The United States Army and Navy Journal and Gazette of the Regular and Volunteer Forces

New York Times; THE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN.; CASE OF THE KINGMA CHILDREN--LETTER FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

I would certainly recommend replacing the citation for The Eunuch and the Virgin, which is a book I consider a bit questionable, and seems to have some potential errors in its own citations. I have another post on the talk page for this article.

At this point, I am unsure I am personally qualified to write more. I would consider Clarence King Memoirs: The Helmet of Mambrino to be a good secondary source; it seems to describe the outcome as it is in the letter from the US State Department quite well. If there is no further information, I may cite that soon. It is possible there may be more information in this book on Zeng Jize, but I have my doubts. Any sources cited by Dr. Chang were in Chinese, a language I have no experience in, so I cannot see what documents led her to describing this sentence as if it was not commuted.

--Anymouse (talk) 00:52, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

WeChat user template
Hi! For any users based in Mainland China, there is now a user template for WeChat users: Template:User WeChat WhisperToMe (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Double redirectts that might be better redirected to a different location
See Talk:Li Bo (disambiguation).

Yesterday, I moved to Li Bo (disambiguation), and changed the original title to redirect to the primary topic. But where the double redirects should go depends on a bunch of other factors, and I'm not confident in my ability to make the right choices without outside help.

Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 02:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

“Most populous cities” template
The populations numbers in the template Template:Most populous cities in the People's Republic of China seem incorrect, and are inconsistent with the population figures we give in the articles about the cities. For example,the template says that the population of Zhengzhou is 3,677,000, but our article on Zhengzhou says “Zhengzhou has a population of 9,378,000 inhabitants with an urban population of 6,406,000.”

The template looks like this:

I brought this up on the template talk page but received no response. Someone with more expertise should look into the discrepancy and correct whichever number are incorrect. —Mark Dominus (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

I probably have no more expertise than you here but these are really quite significant discrepancies. First thing to note is that for large cities like Chongqing, the city population differs greatly to the total population since there are also farmlands and small townships under the city's jurisdiction. We should agree on whether to put on the city proper, metropolitan or total population.

The English version of the official 6th National Census website is almost entirely empty. I searched over some Chinese websites as well (such as this, this and this) but all are not likely credible sources, the Chinese version of the census website is, on the other hand quite detailed but all I can find there are the statistics for provinces, not cities, so I'm not sure if they are even published, the information here on the template may likely be copy-pasted from the infobox of the cities' individual articles (as templates don't need references), instead of real census data. Take a look at this as well (also in Chinese). One error here I can see though, Hong Kong is NOT a city as in the Template, it is a Special Adminstrative Region, a quite peculiar region with a collection of urban settlements, hundreds/thousands of villages and islands, national parks etc. It has a status much higher than individual cities, even higher than that of provinces, so Hong Kong should be removed from the list as well.  Wishva de Silva  &#124; Talk 11:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Qilan tea
Can somebody improve this poor quality article?♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:46, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Categorize Shanghai metro stations by administrative district
The Shanghai Metro stations need to be in categories related to the administrative districts they reside in. I notice for example that not all metro stations in Pudong are put in the category for Pudong.

I'm already doing the template for Pudong, but having some help in the category side of things would be great! WhisperToMe (talk) 01:54, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Xǔ/Xú (surname)
recently split the article into Xǔ (surname) and Xú. While I appreciate their being bold, I'm not sure if it was the best course of action. I would request some more opinions whether this split was desirable, or the pages should be merged back (and what are the best titles). The RM debate which sparked this notification is located at Talk:Xǔ (surname). No such user (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Dates
I'm currently editing the article on Qin Shi Huang, but noticed some disparities in the dates. It seems to be a common problem in Chinese articles (often out by one year), which is probably a consequence of trying to convert Chinese dates into Gregorian ones. If someone knows more about this issue, or have more reliable sources, could you help fix the dates? It's annoying to see conflicting dates in the same article. I have removed some dates, but do feel free to put them back if you think them the right ones, and go over the whole article to check that the dates are correct. You can also contribute in its Talk page if you are interested. Hzh (talk) 21:16, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm also wondering if it is possible for a more generalized approach to fixing the date, for example, direct conversion of Chinese dates to Western ones? Hzh (talk) 21:57, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It may be good to have a reliably sourced-section about conversion of Chinese dates to modern Gregorian ones. I'm sure some Sinologist has written about it. Then one can use that as a guide to get accurate dates for historic figures. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:27, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It would be an interesting, but likely time-consuming undertaking. Possibly the full dates could be added to List of rulers of China (that article however is largely unsourced at the moment), or perhaps a section of Chinese era name or a separate article.  I think I once visited a website that did the conversion of Chinese regnal date to Western date, but I can't seem to find it now, so I'm now not sure if I misremember that. Hzh (talk) 12:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I guess my idea about the date conversions is something along the lines of say Chinese name? It would probably take some time, but the result may be worth it. If I knew of some sources about that maybe I could do it. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:45, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and try it, although I'm wondering if it can be part of the WikiProject so that dates can be fixed over multiple pages. I've looked at the dates in many Chinese articles, and the dates are often out by one year checking various sources - it's the sources that are conflicting, and deciding which is the more accurate one is the issue. It's not just the dates of the regnal era, but how the dates within the eras should be calculated. Hzh (talk) 10:43, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Hoklo American fringe theory
There is a post in the fringe theories noticeboard concerning whether American people of Hoklo descent is a valid construction. Additional comments are requested.--Prisencolin (talk) 01:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

French Indochina
Hello,

I am trying to find the Chinese translation for the official name of French Indochina. The page currently gives 法屬印度支那 but that's just for French Indochina which was the unofficial name. It actually had two official designations, Indochinese union (1887-1941) and Indochinese federation (1941-1954). Can anybody help me find the khmer translations for these two ? Thank you. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 07:54, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Questions about article neutrality at Talk:Nanking Massacre
Hi all, if this is of interest to anyone, an editor has opened a discussion at Talk:Nanking Massacre that could use some feedback from people interested in the subject. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

The Chinese chant/cheer
Do we have an article on the cheering 加油 chant ? (加油 中国; 加油 Chi-Na; etc) I notice there's a USA Chant and Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi that are covered on Wikipedia -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:12, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is notable, but I think the problem might be sourcing. The origins of Jia You as a sports cheer are apparently shrouded in mystery.--Danaman5 (talk) 03:14, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We wouldn't need the origins, since WP:NOTFINISHED; we can just cover current usage, the meaning, and how the chant is sung. -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 04:24, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

On the many Subdistricts of Shenzhen
So there have recently been a few move proposals for Shenzhen subdistrict articles removing "subdistrict" from the title (1 2). I would support these moves, but consistency's sake would necessitate doing the same for all of the subdistricts. Thing is, a lot of them that don't already redirect to List of administrative divisions of Shenzhen don't really have any content, and would probably be fine just redirecting to that article. (Specifically these ones 1 2 3 3 4 5 6 7) Just as a second opinion, object to me taking the initiative to redirect those 7 to that article? Thx - Tpdwkouaa (talk) 05:41, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Medal of National Defense Service
It may be helpful to have a some folks drop by this discussion and weigh in. There doesn't seem to be coverage of the topic in English language sources, but it doesn't seem that anyone around at the moment is able to evaluate the worth of Chinese sources on the matter. Timothy Joseph Wood 14:26, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Notice to participants at this page about adminship
Many participants here create a lot of content, have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the skills considered at Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:


 * Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:43, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Zaotang
We could really use some great photos and video of Zaotang-making. If anyone is in Shandong and knows about this, please take a trip there. Thanks. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:20, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Should we change the titles of those election articles from "Republic of China xxx elections" to "Taiwanese xxx elections"?
Related RFC here. Talk:Republic_of_China_general_election,_2016 --Lemongirl942 (talk) 07:16, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Professor Kai-Tai Fang
I drafted an article on a Chinese statistician: Professor Kai-Tai Fang of Hong Kong Baptist University (and formerly of the Institute of Applied Mathematics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, formerly Academia Sinica).

Professor Fang's homepage has a gif image of his name in Chinese characters. Will a project-participant provide those characters for his Wikipedia article, please?

Thank you! 162.250.169.162 (talk) 16:45, 4 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Done! Madalibi (talk) 12:32, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The Chinese characters index more pictures on Google search for images, but none seem to be public domain.
 * I copied the characters from the articles on the Chinese number-theorists Hua Luogeng and Wang Yuan (mathematician). 162.250.169.162 (talk) 16:55, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Chinese Army
There is a currently a discussion about the and  redirects at Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 18, your comments there would be very welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 01:56, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Unexplained removal of content at Nongfu Spring
I notice content related to a lawsuit between Nongfu Spring and the Beijing Times (sourced from China Daily]) keeps getting removed from the article without a reason stated

I asked the user to state a reason but none was stated WhisperToMe (talk) 11:49, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Translation help request Jian ware
Hallo Wikiproject China team,

I have a quote from a Chinese news source Jian_ware but we are still missing information such as the journalist's name, the translation of the article title into English, etc. any help to fill in those gaps would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 10:42, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Done! Don't hesitate to ask for more help if you need it. Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 12:26, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Madalibi, thank you for your quick help! One more request, in the article there is a line that reads "... in the village of Shui Ji under Master Xiong has been...". Is there a way to include the Chinese characters for the name of the village and also the full name of the master, also in old characters? Gryffindor (talk) 13:11, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I just saw your request after so many days. According to the Chinese article, which I see as the most reliable source in that regard, the name of the village where the kiln is located is Renshan Village (仁山村) inside the "town" (zhen 镇, an administrative unit, not an actual city) of Shuiji, which already has its page and therefore does not need characters. Shuiji is part of Jianyang District, which is next to Wuyishan District (both are within Nanping Prefecture). It is therefore inaccurate to say that Xiong's village is "outside Wuyishan", though Wuyishan is the closest town (strictly speaking, a "county-level city") that will be remotely recognizable to western readers, because it is part of Wuyi Mountains. I reworded accordingly, leaving Wuyishan, but being more specific about where the kiln is located. Hope this helps! Madalibi (talk) 03:12, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Do you also have the full name of Master Xiong? Gryffindor (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, Gryffindor! I just inserted Master Xiong's full name, which was already in the translated title of the Chinese article. Madalibi (talk) 22:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * 谢谢你的帮助 Madalibi. Gryffindor (talk) 19:52, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Help with a Chinese-language AFD
Hello WikiProject China,

Could a couple of Chinese readers please have a quick look at Losebinne and Articles for deletion/Losebinne? Specifically, this is an article about a novelist from Changsha which seems to reference some dodgy sources.
 * 1) Is this writer actually notable in China? If so, can you point us to some sources about her?
 * 2) Are any of the existing article sources reliable? Some seem to be from a crowdsourced encyclopaedia but there's doubt about the others.

Thanks very much for your time.  A  Train ''talk 15:40, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Replacement for Google Maps in China
As you all know, Google anything is blocked in China. Flash Earth was the best substitute because it had coords with crosshairs in the middle of the screen. That site went a few months ago.

I don't know why I didn't find this before, but there is: http://www.earthol.com/

Previous discussion: Village pump (technical)/Archive 148

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:15, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

And current discussion. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:59, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Trying to make both traditional Chinese and Jyutping first in a ZH template
In the opening ZH template of White Cat Black Cat I'm trying to have both traditional Chinese and Jyutping first as it is a Hong Kong topic, but the following code seems to put simplified first: Why is that? WhisperToMe (talk) 07:52, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Infobox_Chinese_historical_biography
For years, Three Kingdoms people articles and a select few other Chinese historical biographies were using this template. Since there is a need to separate linguistic information from biographical infoboxes and a similar need to conform to standardized infobox templates, I intend to retire the template. Please see Template_talk:Infobox_Chinese_historical_biography. _dk (talk) 19:39, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

SZSECI
I had nominated Template:SZSECI for deletion, as the index now consist of top 500 company. A new template should be created for another index that just contain top 100 companies of Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Matthew_hk  t  c  17:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to Women in Red's special November activities
(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list)

We need to go over all Chinese food topics and categories and correct the pinyin
Most of them are formatted incorrectly. In Chinese pinyin, there should be no spaces between morphemes that create a word.

For instance:
 * 餃子 = Jiǎozi (not jiǎo zi)
 * 办公室 = Bàngōngshì (not bàn gōng shì)
 * 小提琴 = Xiǎotíqín (not xiǎo tí qín)

Same for locations. It is Shanghai and Beijing, not Shang Hai and Bei Jing (although most people do not have a problem writing Shanghai and Beijing correctly)

I would say that for locations, tone marks are not necessary. For items, I propose correct pinyin (no spaces, tone marks preferred but not essential) for consistency and accuracy

Doublestuff (talk) 14:19, 21 October 2016 (UTC)


 * See WP:PINYIN.  White Whirlwind  咨   22:33, 21 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes thank you, it is good to know that guidelines have been set. But there's so much work to be done and so many articles are completely fudged up with wrong pinyin (especially in the food templates / navigation box), it makes my blood boil. I hope this helps to discourage people outside of Wikipedia in making up their own translations and transliterations. Doublestuff (talk) 22:54, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Wu romanisation
Hi All, I was just wondering if we could establish a standard form of Wu romanisation throughout Wikipedia? It's a bit all over the place with some Hangzhou Romanisation here and Shanghai Romanisation there. Thoughts? Opacitatic (talk) 09:47, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Looking for someone in Tianjin
Is anyone in Tianjin? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:24, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

The reason I'm asking is because it would be great if someone would take a photo of Ear-hole fried cake. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:40, 26 October 2016 (UTC)


 * , If no one here responds, isn't there a category for requesting photos on wiki? I seem to vaguely remember something. Ottawahitech (talk) 23:05, 27 October 2016 (UTC)please ping me
 * Hello Ottawahitech. Long time. :) I considered that, but never had much like with it. I might give it a try. Best wishes and thank you for the suggestion. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:49, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Help requested at Articles for deletion/Wang sicong
Hello to and the members of WikiProject China. I come to you, hat in hand, with another request for your services. There's a contentious AFD at Articles for deletion/Wang sicong. The subject of the article is the son of (purportedly) one of China's richest men. User:Sarahj2107 has evaluated the English-language sources for the article and argued convincingly that they do not support a BLP about the subject. However, a number of Chinese-language sources have been offered up over the course of the AFD and it would be most helpful if one of you could cast an eye over them and weigh in.

Thanks as always,  A  Train ''talk 12:30, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting. I am not a member of this WikiProject, but I visit many WikiProjects that I am not a member of. I found the article which has been nominated for deletion to be of interest. So, just wanted to say that posting such as yours are very helpful to others, members or not. Ottawahitech (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2016 (UTC)please ping me


 * Hi A Train! Unfortunately the AfD has been closed (as "no consensus") before I had time to comment. For what it's worth, I just did some quick research, and to me the result would be a clear "Keep". The Chinese sources cited by people who want to keep the article don't look particularly good (the "BBC interview" is actually a superficial article that only mentions such an interview), but it remains that Wang Sicong has received substantial coverage from independent sources, though, as you were right to expect, most of these sources are in Chinese. Here are three recent and fairly long articles devoted to Wang Sicong in Chinese business magazines:
 * Guo Hai 郭海, "Wang Sicong de shangye 'youshi'" 王思聪的商业“优势” [Wang Sicong's business 'advantage'"], Xin Jingji 新经济 ["New Economy"], 2014, issue 24. Alludes to Wang's claim that his advantage is that he has a lot of money.
 * Peng Tiantian 彭甜甜, "Wang Sicong: toutai nengshou haishi yingxiao qicai?" 王思聪：投胎能手还是营销奇才? [Wang Sicong: master of rebirth or marketing wizard?], Huashang 华商 ["Chinese Businessman"], 2014, issue 17.
 * Zhang Ziyan 张自言, "Kan 'guomin laogong' Wang Sicong ruhe fangsi dianping yulequan" 看“国民老公”王思聪如何放肆点评娱乐圈 [How the 'people's husband' Wang Sicong has indulgently criticized entertainment circles], Vista (Kan tianxia 看天下), 2015, issue 1. On how Wang Sicong has used social media to voice reckless comments on people from the entertainment industry.
 * I'm sure I could find more, but these three articles should already be enough to establish notability. Anyway, thank you for dropping by, and don't hesitate to do it again if you need to! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 11:58, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

School notability gudelines and Chinese schools
Due to the confusion on what a "middle school" means in China, I added information to the WikiProject Schools notability guidelines. While a "middle school" in the U.S. is a lower secondary institution, in China a school described as a "middle school" in English is actually a zhongxue (secondary school) in Chinese and it may have upper secondary/senior high school (gaozhong) students. I told WP:School editors to consult WP:China editors if they are unsure whether a Chinese middle school has senior high students or not.

This is important since generally senior high schools are kept at AFD, but most junior high/lower secondary schools (chuzhong) are not. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:39, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits to Chinese city infoboxes
On 4 November User:ASDFGH added extra descriptors such as "province capital", "national central city" and "comparatively large city" to the "settlement field" parameter of 50+ city infoboxes (e.g. Nanjing, Tianjin, Benxi, Handan). I think this is unnecessary (the same information is already in the lede), unusual in the case of the first label (I've never seen a city infobox anywhere on Wikipedia that calls attention to the city's status as a capital; "province capital" is also grammatically poor), and confusing in the case of the latter two labels, which are administrative jargon few people have heard of. In addition, the "comparatively large city" label (but not the others, for some reason) gets copied into the headings for the area and population figures in the infobox where it is particularly distracting. I think we should undo all of these changes but I welcome others weighing in on the matter. Cobblet (talk) 04:22, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that these secondary descriptors are unnecessary and should be removed. The reason for the selective copying is that settlement_type is used as the heading for population_total when there are additional population figures and total_type is not set (and similarly for areas).  Kanguole 10:24, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have undone all of the edits in question. Cobblet (talk) 05:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Meta usergroup Shenzhen Wikimedians
As an FYI I started the user group meta:Shenzhen Wikimedians on Meta for anyone who is in Shenzhen WhisperToMe (talk) 14:38, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Need a Chinese speaker for review of draft
Hi! The reviewer at Draft:When a Snail Falls in Love requested a Chinese speaker to review this draft, as the sources are in Chinese. Could somepne please assist him to confirm that the sources are ok? Thank you in advance! Teemeah 편지 (letter)  14:58, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Pictures of the Great Wall (Beijing / Hebei)
Hi together! As I am living already for a while in China and go regularly hiking on the Great Wall (outside of the tourist Spots like Badaling, Mutianyu etc.) I have already a quite huge stack on good Photos of the different parts of the wall, including special Towers, some Pictures where the building style can be seen very good etc. For Most of the pictures I can also name the exact part of the Wall and upper or more well known Name(i.E. ErDaoGuan close to HuangHuaCheng GW). I would love to upload these Photos into the Commons also to preserve after more and more (unfortunately partially quite crappy) "renovation" work is done recently on Disnefying the wall. I would need help for Categories, Naming and stuff like that. Best from someone who's more fluent in Chinese than me. In the best way I could also support on creating new articles or expanding already existing articles with my knowledge. Any volunteers? Cheers --Mrilabs (talk) 07:59, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Welcome ! I've been trying to categorize the images in the Great Wall of China category over at the Commons by location, having someone with knowledge on the ground would be a tremendous help! I speak Chinese and have done quite a bit of categorizing on Commons, so if you have any questions or requests, feel free to ask me! _dk (talk) 09:53, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Great, that's already a good start. Guess the Naming convention for these Categories should be "Great Wall of China at xxx". I'll try to upload the first pictures this weekend, maybe creating some new categories. Will come back to you for sure as soon as I'm starting. Greetings --Mrilabs (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I finally sorted out my Pictures a bit and started uploading stuff, after doing some categorizing. Was thinking quite a bit now (especially standing on the wall on Sunday) on how to do it best and to sort the different parts of the wall as it's sometimes a bit hard to distinguish where one part starts and the other one ends. Guess it would be the best to copy the categorization of greatwallforum.com (well at the beginning only for Beijing would be enough) as they sorted it going form east to west. do you know if there is any way to sort the Categories in a specific order and not alphabetically? What do you think about this sorting scheme? Cheers --Mrilabs (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Well I know that sorting categories by alphabet is the standard way to do things and some people will be upset to find them sorted another way. If it's unclear which part of the wall that an image belongs to, you can have the image belong to more than one category. And you may want to create a page on Commons that lists the parts of the wall geographically from east to west if that's what you want to do. Cheers! _dk (talk) 16:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Request for the Huawei Honor article
On behalf of Huawei, I've submitted an edit request to expand and improve the Huawei Honor article, which you can view on the article's talk page. I am trying to find a neutral editor to copy over the proposed draft appropriately. Is there a WikiProject China member who is can help? Inkian Jason (talk) 19:28, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 17:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Ongoing RM discussions as of 15 December 2016
These above RM discussions are ongoing. I invite you to improve the consensus. --George Ho (talk) 01:09, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Talk:Politics of China
 * Talk:Flag of China

Zhangye National Geopark
Ni Hao, I uploaded on Commons (here) some good and licence-free photos about the beautiful Zhangye National Geopark. Could you please help me: what's written in this photo? Thanks --Holapaco77 (talk) 09:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The top characters are "Sunan" (肃南) and the bottom line says "Chinese Yugur Scenic Corridor" (中华裕固风情走廊). The official website is only in Chinese; but see this article in English. Cobblet (talk) 16:02, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Broadest supercategory of "Sinitic religion"
I recently started the article "Sinitic religion" as the broadest supercategory of Chinese reigion, overcoming all the distinctions between the variety of forms of Chinese religion, including popular and elite, diffuse and institutional, ritual and philosophical. I recognise that the category is intrinsically blurry, and overlaps with "religion in China" and "Chinese folk religion" (popular or diffuse). We are now discussing the destiny of the article, since some could see it as a "fork" of other articles. Please see the discussion.--Aethelwolf Emsworth (talk) 09:23, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

We lack an article for Cannabis in the People's Republic of China
I've been working the list at Legality of cannabis by country and slowly building up the number of "Cannabis in [country]" articles, now up to 97. However, we totally lack an article on cannabis in the PRC, and have just a stub on Cannabis in Taiwan.

If anyone here is interested in the topic, especially if you can read Chinese-language sources, this is a big gap in our coverage. In contrast, note that Cannabis in India is a very well-developed article that gets 100k views per year. I'd invite anyone interested to help build up a proper view of the cannabis issue in China. Thanks! Goonsquad LCpl Mulvaney (talk) 23:23, 30 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Another editor has started Cannabis in China, but we could definitely use help expanding it! Goonsquad LCpl Mulvaney (talk) 10:12, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Gorgon cake
Inputs needed at Articles for deletion/Gordon euryale seed cake. utcursch &#124; talk 21:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal
This is just a heads up that another user has started a discussion to merge this page into China (cultural region) at Talk:China (cultural region). Patar knight - chat/contributions 18:27, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Peer review for Legalism (Chinese philosophy)
G'day, a peer review has been requested for the Legalism (Chinese philosophy) article. Interested parties are invited to take part at the review page, which can be found here: Peer review/Legalism (Chinese philosophy)/archive1. Thank you for your time. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:46, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Yao Beina
Hi folks, some copyediting and sourcing assistance is appreciated on Yao Beina. Over the last year, numerous editors edited the article, adding new content while causing issues with verifiability and NPOV. Thanks a lot for your help! Zhaofeng Li talk (Please &#123;&#123;Ping&#125;&#125; when replying) 14:56, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and nuked much of the unsourced content. -Zanhe (talk) 00:39, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Request for assistance
The nominations for the 5th Canadian Screen Awards (the Canadian equivalent to the Academy Awards) came out today, and they include a nomination for a Chinese actor — so I need a bit of assistance in ensuring that I get his name correct. When I first wrote the article about the film Old Stone last fall after it won an award at the 2016 Toronto International Film Festival, the sources available to me at the time gave the lead actor's name as Chen Gang, but his Best Actor nomination today was given under the name Gang Chen. I know how Chinese name order works, so I don't need that lecture — but what I don't know is which source gave his name in Chinese name order and which one reversed it to Western name order. Is anybody here able to clarify before I actually start the article, so I can ensure that I get it right? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 02:18, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It's Chen Gang, with Chen being his surname.  White Whirlwind  咨   02:35, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 02:36, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Geography question
I have been checking a bunch of sources on the mid-Tang poet Li He, whose hometown is variously given as 福昌 or 昌谷, and I have one that says 福昌昌谷. The modern equivalents given for these locations all seem to basically agree, so it seems like they might just all be the same place, but is this accurate? I don't read Chinese very well and don't feel confident consulting, say, the Luoyang city website, which seems to imply that 福昌 is still a district name that exists, but specifically says the Tang poet was from 昌谷. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 09:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)


 * According to Harvard's TGAZ database, Fuchang 福昌 was a county during the Tang and Song dynasties; its seat was located in modern Fuchang Village, Yiyang County, Henan, where its ruins can still be seen. Changgu 昌谷 was a village or town in Fuchang, in today's Sanxiang Town 三乡镇 of Yiyang, see here. I've created a stub for Fuchang County. -Zanhe (talk) 23:37, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that. But I wonder if having independent articles on random pre-modern Chinese toponyms like this is useful, except to unclutter articles like Li He of Chinese text. There are probably thousands of such toponyms on which, if we have an article on Fuchang County, we should probably have articles as well. Don't we usually create redirects for those kind of terms and discuss them in "history" or "etymology" sections of our articles on current place-names? (Doing this would also unclutter other articles of unrelated Chinese text.) Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 06:07, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I did initially create a redirect to Yiyang County, Henan, but as I looked more into the sources, I felt it should be a separate article because Fuchang constitutes just (roughly) half of modern Yiyang, and its county seat was a separate city 27 km from the modern Yiyang town. It's not simply a matter of etymology. And I do believe that every historical county, commandery, and prefecture deserves to have an article. Lots of research has been published about them. The Chinese scholar Zhou Zhenhe 周振鹤 has spent decades writing 中国行政区划通史 (History of Chinese Administrative Divisions) in more than a dozen volumes. -Zanhe (talk) 18:53, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit requests for Huawei Honor 8 article
On behalf of Honor, I've submitted two edit requests to update the Huawei Honor 8 article at Talk:Huawei Honor 8. One is to add an additional sentence to the "Reception" section, and another is to note the record for highest smartphone livestream, as verified by Guinness World Records. I've tried to make these edit requests as easy to implement as possible by clearly providing sourcing and markup to copy and paste to the article. Is there a project member who is willing to help with one or both of these requests? I can answer any questions on the talk page. Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:09, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Redirect pages of Politics of the Republic of China
The RFD discussion on the following redirects is relisted to Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 February 2: Politics of Taiwan, politics of taiwan, and politics in Taiwan. I invite you to discussion. --George Ho (talk) 07:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Notification of requested move of List of political parties in the People's Republic of China
Project members may be interested in commenting on the Requested Move discussion at Talk:List of political parties in the People's Republic of China AusLondonder (talk) 15:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)