Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia/Archive 8

Dr. Thom Wainggai
Hi, can I draw all your attentions to the page Dr. Thom Wainggai, a West Papuan politician that I've recently tagged with POV. I did this after a comment left by Arjayay at the Help Desk; "Is there anyone here with any knowledge of West Papua, or more specifically West Papuan politics? I found a fairly new article Dr. Thom Wainggai which appears to be written by a political supporter, and includes a section entitled "WORST TRIAL EVER", which is clearly not NPOV. Although there do appear to have been some irregularities, I suspect the sources have been cherry-picked to support the PoV being presented. Having no knowledge of West Papua whatsoever, could anyone who does, please have a look?"

- Arjayay I've also left a similar message at the article's talk page and the page creator's talk page. Thanks.  Seagull123  Φ  15:20, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * May be notable, but yes, massive POV issues. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:27, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

AfC submission
See Draft:Kentot Harseno. Best, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  20:03, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Island of Palmas Case (Miangas)
This is historically (and geographically connected to the Philippines. A collaboration between the two projects is needed to make the article better. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 05:56, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Miangas
Miangas is now included in WP:Tambayan Philippines.Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 04:49, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * No need, it is an Indonesian territory. Molecule Extraction (talk) 05:52, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The WP:Wikihounding is getting creepy. Please. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 06:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Notability of Surya Semesta Internusa
Hi, would someone (preferably an Indonesian-speaker) be able to confirm whether Surya_Semesta_Internusa is a notable company? It appears to be a public company in Indonesia with several thousand employees and a market capitalization of Rp 3.4 tn - however most sources appear to be in Indonesian. Thanks. astro (talk) 16:56, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

South Likupang
Please help to deveop this page and the pages describing villages.Xx236 (talk) 07:11, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Category:Panasonic Gobel Award winners has been nominated for discussion
Category:Panasonic Gobel Award winners, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Media upload of images from Dutch East Indies/Indonesia
Dear project-members,

I would like to draw your attention to two media uploads that may be of relevance to your project:

The Royal Netherlands Institute of Southeast Asian and Caribbean Studies and Leiden University Library donated 3114 images to Wikimedia Commons as a follow-up to an earlier donation containing 2400+ images. The new donation contains photos, lithos, drawings, watercolours showing people, landscapes, plantations, plants and butterflies from countries such as Suriname, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan and Singapore. The upload was carried out by Hans Muller.

The National Museum of World Cultures (a merger of the former Tropenmuseum, the Museum Volkenkunde and the Afrika Museum) donated a collection of 720 images to Wikimedia Commons. This donation consists of photos of objects from the museum's collection, and of photos taken during Dutch scientific and military expeditions in Suriname and the Dutch East Indies.

Kind regards, --AWossink (talk) 12:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

ChiBi Crush Rangers
Would someone from this WikiProject mind taking a look at ChiBi Crush Rangers and assessing it. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:16, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Redundancy in Schedule Table
The Schedule Table at 2013 Islamic Solidarity Games has 4 empty (and unnecessary) date columns at the beginning. Who knows how to remove them safely? Please do so. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:24, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

10,000 Challenge
Hi, if anybody would be interested in doing a 10,000 article improvement challenge for Singapore and Southeast Asia and national contests for Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines etc please comment at my proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Southeast Asia.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:09, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi this is the Indonesian project - not even mentioned etc? - someone has just tried to say the Southeast Asia project is inactive as well, good set of hits! JarrahTree 01:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Note re Visitor/Tourist....
This project currently has two parallel trees related to Attractions (In Indonesia in the 1990s known as Turism Obyek or similar) -as a result of CFD - there will be an attempt over time to try re-configure the trees into a coherent and consistent format. in time...


 * noting (a) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Tourist_attractions_in_Indonesia - preferred
 * that (b)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Visitor_attractions_in_Indonesia_by_province - exists

the intention is to change every visitor attraction category item into tourist - as designated at the CFD listed above

JarrahTree 08:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Minor FYI: the Indonesian term for tourist attractions, afaik, is obyek wisata. - HyperGaruda (talk) 09:26, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Indeed - obyek wisata - object of interest to visitor/tourists - an oxymoron - if there ever was one JarrahTree 01:21, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Same or not
Hi, Indıonesian Wikipedians, while working on an article, I noticed that the coordinates of Dana Island (Rote Ndao) and Pamana Island are the same. Do these two articles refer to the same island ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 17:03, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Same island. I redirected the first to the correct one. Thanks! MbahGondrong (talk) 17:46, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Mangkunegara VII
I started the stub on Mangkunegara VII, guessing he's much more notable.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:29, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to Women in Red's special November activities
(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list)

Regency and Districts
In a large number of articles here in the project - there are many lists of names of places for no real purpose in no particular order, with no attempt at anything but the 'list' and no refrences

They are basically unlinked and meaningless.

For any of the few Indonesian project editors still watching this page - the question is - delete or what? lists of names do not do anything for the articles at all. JarrahTree 01:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I am not sure what you are talking about. Could you please give an example? --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Kendal_Regency has a clear indication - and no added lists at all
 * Demak Regency - different style - but ok as well
 * Banyumas_Regency - again different but with information that is linked and referenced

what I cam concerned about is items like: -


 * Baktiya
 * Banda_Sakti

It does not really help the larger project to have such variant contents in such articles, no one really learns anything from such lists.


 * Districts_of_East_Nusa_Tenggara is betwixt and between being totally useless and of marginal use
 * Batang_Hari_Regency provides opportunity to fill in the red links with lower heirarchy districts
 * Districts_of_West_Sulawesi similarly is just a list

I am not trying to detract from the hard work of editors who have laboured to provide a range of the dimensions of populated places and areas in the Indonesian archipelago, I am just asking whether we are gong to be run down as project to where the lowest component of RW and RT become included in the Indonesian category tree with no hope of WP:N or WP:RS of elements higher up the tree inadequately written or consistent across the project. Surely there is point where the line in the sand needs to be drawn - Project policy perhaps? JarrahTree 08:40, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I will not discuss all of them at once, because there are multiple conflicting policies/guidelines applicable to this. However, what really should be deleted as WP:LISTCRUFT are the pages in Category:Lists of districts of Indonesia. These lists skip one whole level in the administrative hierarchy (provinsi-kabupaten/kota-kecamatan-desa/kelurahan), grouping together kecamatan per province (instead of something more logical like kecamatan per kabupaten). This seems like a rather arbitrary way of making a list. --HyperGaruda (talk) 11:03, 27 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Indeed, when I look at Districts_of_East_Nusa_Tenggara, I wonder why? what is the point ? who or what benefits for something like that? JarrahTree 11:09, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Why Sub-Districts List of Sub-Districts of Indonesia ?Xx236 (talk) 12:05, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I do not really understand what you are trying to ask; could you please elaborate on your question? --HyperGaruda (talk) 18:37, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Notice to participants at this page about adminship
Many participants here create a lot of content, may have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the skills considered at Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:


 * Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:46, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Raja Naipospos
Can someone quickly take a look at RAJA NAIPOSPOS. Its up for deletion, but is written in Indonesian making it difficult to tell if this it is worth keeping. SpinningSpark 00:34, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Kepompong for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kepompong is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Kepompong until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. ArdiPras95 (talk) 03:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Cannabis in Indonesia needs improvement
We have a new article Cannabis in Indonesia, but it could really use improvement and expansion, especially from anyone who can read Bahasa Indonesia sources. With a little polishing, it'd also be really useful to make a translated version for Indonesian Wikipedia since it's a topic of increasing interesting these days. Goonsquad LCpl Mulvaney (talk) 03:01, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 18:01, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Indonesia
Please participate at FAR here, and help save this article from losing its featured status! Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:09, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Spelling of pre-Indonesia Javanese names
Is there a consistent guideline on how to spell or transliterate the Javanese names with "a"/"o" vowels, such as Pakubuwana/Pakubuwono, Trunajaya/Trunojoyo and others? I've seen both variants throughout Wikipedia and throughout literatures, even for the same person. HaEr48 (talk) 06:27, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Very good point - there is a serious problem with this, not just vowels - but items as found with tj/c and so on. (and as for sukarno/soekarno...).

Also on commons - a large number of items have been uploaded with old spelling variants - consistency (with variants in parenthesis) would be good - however some authors/academics insist upon specific usages within their texts.

Also this page is becoming less and less visited by editors with relevant knowledge of the subject... it would be great to resolve the issue a guideline should be made, and applied for the whole set of articles. One small problem is there is a set of very low level english editors arriving and adding their biases in editing, with little or no capacity to discuss the issues in english. JarrahTree 06:54, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, there is an old essay at WP:Javanese, but that does not seem to be entirely what you're after. It is but an essay anyways and it looks like it was the work of one person, i.e. there has been no consensus (yet). Additionally, there's WikiProject Indonesia/Naming conventions. While merely a proposal, it does say In Javanese, the letter "a" is sometimes pronounced like "o" in the final syllables of words, and the words are sometimes spelled that way. However, unless that spelling is more common in English-language documents, the spelling with "a" should be retained. The variation should be noted in the article, however. Please don't take it as carved in stone, but it is closest thing we have to a rule at the moment though. --HyperGaruda (talk) 12:16, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Even though it's not an official rule, that makes sense to me and I'm happy to follow it. HaEr48 (talk) 19:34, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * - thank you for that concise response...

It does still leave us with the sense as to whether current editors who might turn up here are ok with the Naming convention page - if we are and even if we end up with only three editors agreeing yes it looks good - I think it needs to be linked and sign posted as such to save angst later on -

it would be very good if we could get a code savvy editor to actually add the link into the project template.. JarrahTree 00:21, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "adding the link into the project template"? HaEr48 (talk) 04:24, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The project template is . -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:32, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of Indonesian civil awards and decorations has been nominated for discussion
Category:Recipients of Indonesian civil awards and decorations, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:40, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Media upload of historical photographs of Indonesia
Dear editors,

I would like to draw your attention to a media upload that may be of relevance to this page:

The Temminck Groll Collection consists of 2,641 historical photographs taken by the Dutch architect and architectural historian Coen Temminck Groll (1925-2015). The photos were taken in regions with which the Dutch have had historical relations, including countries in Africa, South America and Southeast Asia (see the category description for a full listing). The photos were taken during Temminck Groll's travels and study of 'shared cultural heritage' (heritage of the Netherlands located outside the country’s borders) and mainly date to the 1960s and 1970s. The photographs were digitised by the Cultural Heritage Agency of the Netherlands and made available to Wikimedia Commons in the context of the project The Netherlands and the world. If you have any questions about this upload, or have other media requests regarding Dutch shared cultural heritage, don't hesitate to leave a message at the project page!

Kind regards, --AWossink (talk) 14:44, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposal

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There are two proposals: 06:18, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * To ratify the naming and spelling page WikiProject Indonesia/Naming and spelling conventions for editors of the Indonesia project and subject areas.
 * To have the page linked in the project tag - so that there is no escaping/ignoring/avoiding the issue
 * Support - proposer JarrahTree 00:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support - note that there is a new law on spelling, id:Ejaan Bahasa Indonesia. can you participate on the Indonesia FAR? Fixed the unnecessary brackets. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:01, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support - There are naming/spelling inconsistencies throughout Wikipedia articles on Indonesian topics, so this guideline is needed to rectify that. I checked the guidelines and they all are reasonable and mostly in-line with practices in other English texts, nothing seems clearly wrong. HaEr48 (talk) 04:19, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. The proposal does not seem to violate other established guidelines such as WP:UE and WP:COMMONNAME. Please do note that the promotion to a guideline should be done via a community-wide RfC per WP:PROPOSAL; I'll take care of that. --HyperGaruda (talk) 06:18, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment regarding spelling varieties: I recommend that there be a note regarding titles of creative works. Loetoeng Kasaroeng (the 1926 film), for example, is universally referred to using the van Ophijsen spelling, while Sitti Nurbaya (the novel) tends to be referred to using EYD (EBI is, for our purposes, essentially the same). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For those not in the know: EYD = Ejaan yang Disempurnakan (following the 1972 spelling reform) and EBI = Ejaan Bahasa Indonesia (following the [very minute] 2015 reform). Written Indonesian has gone through three major spelling reforms; EBI, meanwhile, is relatively minor in scope [bolding, capitalization of the terms "si" and "sang"] and thus does not really affect how we work on Wikipedia. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:42, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I do not think the titles are going to be a problem, considering the "unless the term is much better known in the English-speaking world under another spelling" clause, which basically stands for the WP:COMMONNAME guideline. --HyperGaruda (talk) 12:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Except one would debate whether a title can be referred to as a term. Honestly, there's a preference for English-language titles, but almost no Indonesianist would write The Rose of Cikembang (for example) instead of the actual title (Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, if "almost no Indonesianist would write" the English title instead of the Indonesian title, than that would mean the Indonesian title is the common name referred to in said guideline. Perhaps a (piped) link to WP:NC in the proposal will do the trick? --HyperGaruda (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks to those who have replied and commented here, so far - I should clarify that when I am mentioning project tag - it is the WikiProject Indonesia tag that goes on the talk page of Indonesian articles - I am not sure if other projects have such an addition, as long as it does not contravene and policy or process, I do believe a link in that project tag is something this project needs due to the range of subjects and topics covered. JarrahTree 08:32, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I have made a copy of Template:WikiProject Indonesia at Template:WikiProject Indonesia/sandbox, so that you may try out changes without compromising the live template. I would do it myself, as I'm very familiar with the usage and capabilities of, but I'm not at all sure what you're asking to be added. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * How long are we waiting for people to weigh in? So far there has been no objection. HaEr48 (talk) 01:32, 1 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Heheh this is the thing about this project - silence and inaction are common... JarrahTree 04:42, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Per WP:ANRFC, the default length for RfCs is 30 days. --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:08, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * To quote that page: "if the consensus is clear, any editor—even one involved in the discussion—may close the discussion. The default length of a formal request for comment is 30 days... if consensus becomes clear before that and discussion has slowed, then it may be closed early." I believe this is the case here. There has been no dissent and discussion has slowed. So let's close it? HaEr48 (talk) 02:38, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Indonesia provinces flag
i think we should delete all image in Category:SVG_Flags_of_provinces_of_Indonesia and Category:Flags_of_provinces_of_Indonesia because indonesian province doesnt have a flag officially. Hddty. (talk) 12:26, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I checked some of the flags and they seem to have all been created or based on creations by one user who has a record of publishing "proposed" flags, as can be read on his talk page. A discussion about a similar case (Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Proposed flags of Nuevo León) has led to the deletion of several fictitious flags. At the very least, a warning should be added to each fake flag: Commons:Template:Fictitious flag. In any case, deletion of Commons files should be requested there at Commons, not here at Wikipedia; see Commons:Commons:Deletion requests for further information. --HyperGaruda (talk) 14:43, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The discussion: commons:Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/02/Category:Flags of provinces of Indonesia
 * So when the category deleted?

Assessment
Indonesian items are now over 1000 in backlog for assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Indonesia_articles - any help to reduce this number would be appreciated, thank you JarrahTree 07:43, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Dating system
For Indonesia between 1940s and back to the late 1700s, it is acceptable that there are Netherlands East Indies and Dutch project tags, and links

Proposal is for pre-1800 (when the VOC ended) - (there was not a solitary unitary control over what is now Indonesia)

is that we revert to Indonesia for convenience (with qualificatory explanation any page that has the name). Although the 1600-1800 era was dominated by the VOC, it was not 'total' in its control over most of what is now Indonesia.

So this would mean - any dated item between BC and 1800 for any part of Indonesia is Indonesia by category or dating, 1800-1945/1949 is Netherlands East Indies, and since, Indonesia.

Please comment or critique this proposal - thank you JarrahTree 09:14, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * It is not entirely clear to me what you are proposing here. Could you please give some examples of what you intend to do? --HyperGaruda (talk) 10:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

---
 * items dated BCE - through to 1800 - Years in Indonesia  (with qualification)   - proposed
 * items dated 1800 - 1949 -           Years in Netherlands East Indies  - already in practice
 * items dated 1945/9 - current -      Years in Indonesia  - already in practice

---

Like the spelling convention page, I would like support from fellow editors (modified or not) - so we can have it as an established practice, and hopefully the big edit taggers will not go and create something different without checking first


 * Muddier now? JarrahTree 10:30, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Forgive me my ignorance, but I still don't get it. Maybe you could explain how this proposal will affect the article Banten Sultanate, for example? What will change on that page? --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * OK, it depends - currently the article is placed in time in Indonesia by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:17th_century_in_Indonesia and any of the dates  in the article are being ignored by article creators - if there if a specific date for Banten - which there is, 1527 - the date that the sutanate was founded - we can also place 1527 in Indonesia - in the scheme as outlined above - category 1527 in Indonesia - and the subsequent add ons.. JarrahTree 09:37, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, so this is a proposal for a category naming convention, am I right? In that case, you should notify WT:WikiProject Categories and WT:NCCAT. Browsing through their archives, there has been a similar discussion about what national entity to use, but the consensus is not clear from that. --HyperGaruda (talk) 11:35, 11 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Never is, why the query is here, not there. Thanks for the useful links. The over-all category system has been abused to such an extent - project level discussion is the safest, and it is close to how other projects cope with the changing claims to authority overmillenia. JarrahTree 01:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Commons:Photo challenge February 2017 is Multilingualism
FYI, take a look in commons:Commons:Photo challenge/2017 - February - Multilingualism if you have any file you'd like to upload, maybe in some of your archive at home. So far nothing from Indonesia, which has so many local languages.--Alexmar983 (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Upcoming Wikimedia Design Research in Indonesia
Hi,

As you may already know, The Wikimedia Foundation is initiating an important, global discussion to define the Wikimedia movement’s future strategy. As part of this effort, we plan to conduct design research in Indonesia over the next couple of months. The overall research goal will be to learn how people in emerging markets seek and gain information, what kind of technology do they use (if any) in this process, and what is their access to information sources. This will help us to serve Wikimedia projects better and empower new readers in our target countries.

We have started reaching out to design research firms with a ground presence in Indonesia that can do in-depth interviews/qualitative research with people in their environment. You can find our Request for Proposal (RFP) for the research here.

Please take a look at the RFP and let us know if you have any recommendations for local design research firms that meet our requirements. You can reach us at rayyakkannu@undefinedwikimedia.org and sgupta@undefinedwikimedia.org.

Regards,

Ravishankar Ayyakkannu, Manager, Strategic Partnerships, Asia, Wikimedia Foundation. --11:43, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Need help with contacts to conduct in-depth interviews in Indonesia
Hi,

This is Ravi from the Partnerships and Global Reach team at the Wikimedia Foundation.

As you may know, The Wikimedia Foundation is working on defining the movement's future strategy. Our team is collecting opinions/viewpoints from thought leaders in emerging countries as a part of this effort. Indonesia is one of the priority countries for our team. So, we would like to talk to people in Indonesia who lead organizations and do great work in the following areas: free knowledge, non-profit, social impact, government, GLAM, education, and private sector (mobile related).

1. We have prepared a list of organizations to interview which we can share by email. Can you please look at our list and let us know if the organizations we have selected do impactful work in their area of expertise? If yes, can you please share any contacts that you may have in these organizations?

2. If there are organizations (or people) that we should talk to but they are not on the list, please share their information, and we will add them to our list.

Please contact us at rayyakkannu@undefinedwikimedia.org and sgupta@undefinedwikimedia.org to access this list.

We look forward to hearing from you. We can set up a Google Hangout to clarify the above request.

Thanks.Ravishankar Ayyakkannu, Manager, Strategic Partnerships, Asia, Wikimedia Foundation.--13:32, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform is online
Wikimedia Nederland launches the Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform. The platform aims to stimulate global re-use of Dutch collections on non-European cultural heritage. In particular, it aims to stimulate collections on countries with which the Netherlands have had historical ties. These countries include Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Brazil, Ghana, Suriname, South Africa, and others.

The platform also aims to foster contacts between Dutch cultural heritage institutions and Wikimedia contributors across the globe. However, participation is not limited to Wikimedia contributors. Anyone can participate, making it relevant for education and research as well.

Key properties:
 * Dutch heritage institutions can post offers on (parts of) their collections that are relevant to non-European countries
 * Wikimedia contributors gain insight in the contents of Dutch collections and can make requests for digitalisation.
 * Knowledge exchange and cooperation are key concepts.

The platform is easy to use. After registration, users can post offer/requests notices, depending on whether they are looking for material, or want to offer material for re-use. Statistics on re-use are also available.

The Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform is part of the program The Netherlands and the World. This program is supported by Wikimedia Nederland and aims to make available knowledge and content on non-European countries.

Regards, --AWossink (talk) 14:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Single line single ref stubs on the Indonesian project
Due to the resounding response of the backlog section above - another serious issue that this project 'holds' is the ever present all pervasive

single line and single ref stub on this project, about places. I am suggesting that re raise the standard, and not support such items, unless


 * The stub specifies correctly where it is based (not Indonesia, or Java) - at a province level or closer
 * The stub actually has at least an english language ref to clarify WP:V
 * The stub is more than one line or one sentence to clarify WP:N

If this was to reach project level approval and endorsement, it would help no-brainer AFDs where editors who know no better are guided.

As always the lurkers/watchers of this page are invited to comment JarrahTree 01:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I think we should just stick with the standard Wikipedia policy on this, e.g. WP:DEL and others. Coming with our own "standard" likely means that we will just repeat the arguments and counter-arguments that people had for a long time in Wikipedia. It's not a debate/discussion worth repeating IMO. HaEr48 (talk) 06:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * AFD's are not necessarily the best way to evaluate the issue, as most eds at afds do not necessarily know anything about the subjects or domain of knowledge the stubs are in - they refer to easily to google as if it is the ultimate test - there are many things 'about' Indonesia that are simply not online or on google - which is why this is raised. JarrahTree 13:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * It might confuse the AFDers even more if we have our own criteria which is different from the standard Wikipedia ones. What if every project wants to define their own criteria? Besides, what is acceptable varies from people to people, so it will be hard to come to a consensus. It's better to follow the standard policy, which I'm sure went through long debates as well. HaEr48 (talk) 03:25, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with HaEr48 on this. I see no need to create a separate set of deletion criteria/reformulations when general rules already exist. Besides, the two final criteria proposed here clash with WP:RSUE and WP:CONTN respectively. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

OK most Afds are rather short of understanding on what they are doing - so your comments are appreciated... I can see your points. However the general size of numbers and nature of generic one line stubs with little indication of location of context still haunt this project. JarrahTree 12:57, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I understand the problems with these one liner stubs. While I generally discourage creating new one liner stubs, for the ones that exist, I would suggest to let it be. In many cases, I am actually able to find information and sources. This problem of stubs is a general problem with many Southeast Asian article btw. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:23, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Daikon split discussion
Please come participate in the split discussion regarding the Daikon article. Thank you. --Epulum (talk) 06:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Overuse of national flag
I'm finding a LOT of these, as though it's a formula to shove it into the infobox. On the contrary, en.WP's guidelines say not to do that unless there's some particular reason to do so. Some exception is made (although is controversial) for flags in sports articles. Tony  (talk)  05:11, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Example? Trying to understand what you're talking about? HaEr48 (talk) 05:30, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The use of a flagicon to represent Indonesia in infoboxes. There are tons, which need to be removed unless there's a good reason to retain, case by case. Tony   (talk)  08:28, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Tony your edit history of the last 5 years or more shows a pervading interest in flags, if you really want to make yourslf feel particularly unwell, try soccer articles in any project, not just this one. JarrahTree 02:56, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Energy in Indonesia
I came across this edit when scanning through potential vandalism. I don't have any experience with this, so I was wondering if you could see if this was somehow salvageable with references and/or being re-written, otherwise an AFG revert will have to do. Thanks for your time in advance! Best, Nicnote  •  ask me a question  •  contributions  23:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Ping - User:HaEr48 and User:JarrahTree. Nicnote  •  ask me a question  •  contributions  23:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I really have no clue.. It has a lot of details, yet zero references. I'd suggest reverting and leaving a note for the user to include reference if they wish to restore the content. HaEr48 (talk) 02:32, 14 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Very typical of low level english editor leaving things on wikipedia project for the last ten years. No ref, and no return. No need to get hung up on details, revert JarrahTree 02:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * and Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback, I just thought it might be best to double check with you before it was reverted. Best,  Nicnote  •  ask me a question  •  contributions  09:14, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Corythalia voluta
Corythalia voluta is a species of spider that is already covered in Indonesian. It needs to be created in English. An article already exists in the Indonesian Wikipedia at Corythalia voluta, despite the subject having little to no affinity to Indonesia, since the animal lives in El Salvador This project is being notified because the subject already exists on the Indonesian Wikipedia, meaning that someone reading that article has to either know Indonesian or use a translator. WikiProject Spiders, WikiProject El Salvador have also been notified. &mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 17:04, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I checked the Indonesian article is just a few-sentence stub. Not sure if it's worth people's time to translate it. HaEr48 (talk) 20:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * id-wiki most likely translated it from one of the other wikis. According to the revision histories, the dutch wiki got there first in 2011 (not surprised about that; nl-wiki is really a quantity-over-quality project). Quality-wise, I think the Swedish page page is probably a better start. --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:27, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Deletion requests files in Category:Flags of provinces of Indonesia
Feel free to put your opinion here. Thank you. Hddty. (talk) 09:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The result is keep. Hddty. (talk) 12:03, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Copyright law of 2014
A user at commons:Template talk:PD-IDGov, about how governmental portraits are exempt from the copyright law, said that the new copyright law contrary to Commons policy because: "the words translated as 'with due regard to dignity and fairness' (dengan memperhatikan martabat dan kewajaran) prevent use of an image in parody or political attack ads and, therefore, prevent use on Commons. Commons images must be free for any use whatsoever without any regard for dignity or fairness."

What is your opinion on this? Hddty. (talk) 06:01, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Districts and sub districts - aka Kabupaten and Kecamatan
Please note that there is regularly well meant changing of things to do with these terms

Please note the conversation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_districts_of_Indonesia#Translation_of_kecamatan

Please note that this has been discussed before and there should not be reversions JarrahTree 15:19, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I have moved the page since there was no opposition; the discussion can now be found at Talk:List of subdistricts of Indonesia. --HyperGaruda (talk) 09:15, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * In addition, there is a requested mass move discussion at Talk:Districts of South Sumatra. --HyperGaruda (talk) 12:17, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

edit needed on Gender in Bugis society
§  Bissu of Gender in Bugis society says (fourth paragraph)
 * The advice of bissu* is typically sought to get a particular approval from the powers of the batin (hidden) world. One example is for Bugis who leave Sulawesi for the Hajj, the compulsory pilgrimage to Mecca.

* Androgynous bissu are priests, shamans, sorcerers, or mediums.

The underlined sentence is either nonsense, unlikely (kidnapping), or impossible (possession) and should be made understandable by someone knowledgeable.

I am also posting this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies.

See Talk:Gender in Bugis society, and please also put all discussion there. --Thnidu (talk) 01:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Mount Tambora
I have nominated Mount Tambora for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:13, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject
Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Indonesia

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.&mdash; Rod talk 16:14, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Rodw, I already fix most of them, but do you know why I can't connect my account there (OAuth). --Hddty. (talk) 03:36, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know why OAuth doesn't work for you - it might be worth putting any questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation, but thank you for looking at them.&mdash; Rod talk 07:22, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Expansion of Indonesia Comic Con
Hi All, I recently created a stub article on Indonesia Comic Con. I've tried to elaborate it to the best of my capacity, but could only come up with references from a single news outlet. It would be great if those of you with more knowledge and resources expand it further. Thanks, MT TrainDiscuss 10:12, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Provinces flag revisited
We've discussed the provinces flags in this talk page before, which ended up on a Commons category deletion, which seemed unresolved until now. While it seems unlikely that the flags get deleted from commons at this point, what does the community think about the inclusion of the flags? I think there are a few options:
 * 1) Do not include flag
 * 2) Flag may be added in the province's page, but the main identification elsewhere (e.g. in this infobox) should be coat-of-arms
 * 3) Use flags as primary identification, including in election infobox, etc.

-- HaEr48 (talk) 07:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Option 1 Personally I'm against the inclusion of the flags (in infobox, etc.) because the uploaders of those flags did not provide any references to show that the flags are official. I've seen the shield/coat-of-arms a lot in signs in front of government buildings, the header of government documents, or on the uniform of government employees, but I have never seen such thing as an official flag. The best "proof" I've seen so far is this image from National Paralympic Week opening ceremony, but (1) it's just anecdote and not official document (2) not sure if the flags are really official or they were just ad hoc ones created for the Paralympic Week ceremony. HaEr48 (talk) 07:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * At a glance, the flags are literally the CoA on a background color. For simplicity, might as well use the CoA. Juxlos (talk) 08:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Indeed this problem has incurred considerable ire of former editors in this project before - flagcruft and similar rubbish that crowds info boxes... The suspicion is it is non english speaking editors wanting to add what little they are able to without making major exposure of their limitations in english.


 * A major culprit is the Indonesian Association football/soccer articles - they have a life of their own in this matter - breaking every WP:MOS rule in their big articles.


 * HaEr48's suspicion about authenticity/verifiability should be enough to keep them out. But the soccer editors appear to not understand the most basic issues about WP:MOS or english - for that matter.


 * I say no means of verification of authenticity - leave them out JarrahTree 09:06, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Mass-addition of Jawi script in infobox/lead
User:Aasjarif added Jawi script to 100+ Indonesian biographies. Example. Personally, given that Jawi script today isn't normally used in official texts or works such as media or books, I don't think it should be included indiscriminately like this. Do people agree? Also, reverting 100+ edits would be a pain in the neck.. any suggestion how to deal with this? HaEr48 (talk) 19:24, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Some of the involved articles (e.g. B.J. Habibie) would not have even used Jawi by the fact that they were not Malay, so a good fraction are utterly impossible. I’m would give some credibility for the older Malay biographies (e.g. Tulis Sutan Sati) or people born before 1945 when alphabet may not necessarily be used for the language, but really Jawi hasn’t been used in official script at all so it should be mass-reverted. Juxlos (talk) 19:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think there's only a tiny version where Jawi is appropriate. I support mass reverting User:Aasjarif's recent edit. If there are legitimate biographies, we can restore it latter (and it's not that big deal anyway). But the addition to regular biographies where Jawi is irrelevant will just cause clutter and distraction, especially when added to lead and infobox. But I don't know how to easily mass revert. HaEr48 (talk) 19:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * There's a rollback script, but I'm not sure if admin perms are required. I've reverted all Jawi script from anyone born after 1945 or isn't from Sumatera so there's that for now. Juxlos (talk) 20:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I tried using the rollback script but nothing happens, so I guess some special permission is required. Also I believe "born in Sumatra before 1945" is still too generous. That would mean figures such as Mohammad Hatta and Sjahrir would be included, and I'm pretty sure they go with the Latin alphabet. IMO, at the late colonial era, the lettered people were likely educated in the Latin script-based education system (e.g. the government ones). If there was any exception, maybe people like the Malay royalties (e.g. Syarif Kasim II), whose court culture involve Jawi-written texts. HaEr48 (talk) 22:50, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's no objection, I will go ahead and revert the rest. HaEr48 (talk) 22:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Per WP:EN: "Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English." I think because all Indonesian people name originally and officially written in the birth certificate as Latin, then we should't put any transliteration at all; unless there is reliable sources stated otherwise. --Hddty. (talk) 08:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Big problem is that there was an addition of javanese text some years back, and jawi is the same problem - either the english wikipedia scope is being played with, or something has gone wrong somewhere - there really is no need for non english/native scripts to be added, unless some requirement somewhere suggests so. In the case of very notable specific individuals maybe, but not mass adding. In other words please revert, but if any doubt leave case by case items for discussion here perhaps if it is less than ten items, say.

JarrahTree 06:06, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I've reverted nearly all of them, except a few Malay royalties. HaEr48 (talk) 19:13, 20 January 2018 (UTC)


 * As an english speaking wiki - the likelihood of the general reader having access to, or having skills in scripts other than roman is very unlikely. The usage of jawi, javanese, and any other locally used scripts within the Indonesian archipelago - is fine in articles about the languages and scripts per se - but for the biographies of historical personages - even if they were known by names that are aligned with the local languages is of such limited usage, as to render the usage redundant.

I would have no problem with someone having a single list of aka's of indonesian notable persons where every from of variant is given, whether by script or names - as it would serve very good purpose in reducing the tendency of fly by editors adding rarely used spelling or nominal variants:


 * Sukarno. Soekarno.  and so on (there are others used by the foreign press in the 1950s and 1960s who couldnt cope with single name persons)

JarrahTree 00:38, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Unfindable rivers
There are a number of stubs about rivers in Java that have no qualifying references as to where they are - there is a possibility that editors who watch this talk page might have access to material that clarifies from WP:RS where these delightful watercourses flow:

Some of the items include:-


 * Asem_River
 * Baliung_River

which are found in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Indonesia#Java

beware of variant spellings and names though...

anyone with a good indonesian geographical text or online link - it would be appreciated if it could be identified here, as they ultimately stand as either WP:HOAX or WP:OR as there is nothing to clarify WP:V, thanks JarrahTree 23:12, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * They are found, safe and sound. Asem River is Ci Asem in West Java, and Baliung River is Ci Baliung in Banten. JohnThorne (talk) 02:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much for going to the trouble to check JarrahTree 05:30, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Honorifics
User:Badpuccini — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk • contribs) 10:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Use of titular honorifics, such as (Raden Ayoe, Raden Mas, Tengku, Tunku, etc.) should not be glossed over as 'Lord' or 'Lady'. I have even noticed the conversion of Javanese titles by some Wikipedia editors into 'Earl', 'Countess' and other English titles. I believe this practice is anachronistic as it is impossible to convey the meaning and significance of native Indonesian titles in English by using English aristocratic titles. We should follow the accepted convention by Malaysian and Thai Wikipedia editors who leave native titles in their original languages, and then provide suitable links to articles that explain the significance of these titles.

Examples include:
 * Abdullah Ahmad Badawi
 * Kukrit Pramoj
 * Adulakit Kitiyakara
 * Najib Razak

For Javanese editors who are particularly concerned with the subtleties of royal and aristocratic titles, please note that in Europe there was historically a distinction between people of royal blood and mere nobility (see morganatic marriage). I might add that converting Javanese titles for individuals of royal blood to European noble titles does not quite do enough justice to the significance of the original Javanese titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk • contribs) 10:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk) 12:01, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Enhanced Indonesian Spelling System
Some articles use EYD even when the historic figures in question are much better and more widely known by their names in the old spelling. This problem is compounded when certain surnames are rendered by English Wikipedia in EYD, but are still used by the contemporary families that bear those surnames in the older spelling.

Some articles in need of further discussion include:
 * Ahmad Jayadiningrat, who is invariably known to this day as Achmad Djajadiningrat. Furthermore, his contemporary descendants - the Djajadiningrat family - have not changed the spelling of their surname to Jayadiningrat. For comparison, see Sumitro Djojohadikusumo, whose first name is in EYD and whose surname is in the old spelling (which, as per the Djajadiningrat family, is also the preferred spelling of the family in question, i.e. Sumitro's son, Hashim Djojohadikusumo).
 * Sukarno and Suharto - Indonesian Wikipedia uses the older spelling Soekarno and Soeharto. I know that Sukarno preferred EYD, while Soeharto preferred the old spelling. This seems to be the position of the Indonesian presidency as well: see http://presidenri.go.id/istana-merdeka. Their respective families seem to do likewise.

AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk) 12:00, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

All of this has been discussed over and over during the years of this project - this is a but a scratch over the deeper levels of this issue - western journos with limited cultural understanding in the 1950s and 1960s had real problems with the single names, and had to find excuses to call sukarno achmad, and suharto muhhamad - just to satiate their total misunderstanding of things Indonesian.

It would be great to have the numbers to discuss this issue, but I think you will find few will turn up here to discuss. The earlier discussions in earlier yesrs it was a general principal which permeates decisions in other areas - the statistical wins - if the higher usage is one way of spelling - please feel free to explain here which ones you wish to change - and if it is what is used by majority of people - change, but please annotate that you are doing it here and on the talk page - so that if there are edit wars over the issue - at least the issue has been addressed here and commented upon - as a reference point - thanks. JarrahTree 12:57, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Assessment: How important is something?
Right, so what qualifies as Top, High, and Mid-importance articles specifically for this WP? Juxlos (talk) 00:55, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


 * For the project by quality assessment see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia#Assessment


 * For the project by importance assessment see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia/Assessment


 * part 2.2 - for general guidelines

however this was created in very early stages of the project history, and probably needs review

JarrahTree 01:01, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


 * They seem to be “generic” guidelines to a WikiProject - sure we can use it I guess but it might get a bit confusing, not that it really matters but still. Juxlos (talk) 01:04, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


 * There are numerous indonesia project specific guidelines that could be attached - if others agreed


 * majority of project is stubs with low importance with minimal if any wp:rs
 * whole gaps or dark holes where editors interest has never travelled
 * very very confusing categories and category trees about places and locations
 * large number of non notable locations itemised in go nowhere lists

it would need a much larger multi lingual cohort than currently edits in the project at present to even scratch the surface JarrahTree 01:18, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I might just “paste” the guidelines from say WP:FRANCE and adjust them accordingly just so we have a non-generic criterion. Juxlos (talk) 09:26, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Think of this way:


 * Indonesia is heavily reliant upon its maritime context
 * Indonesia has a lot of islands
 * Indonesia has a complex and ever changing religious makeup - historically and contemporary
 * Indonesia is in Asia

This project has evolved in the 10 years or so with fewer editors involved (they come and go) The notion of 'importance' can be determined by:-

The Indonesian project is edited by - Indonesian nationals with varying levels of english competency The Indonesian project has enthusiastic soccer editors The Indonesian project (in english wikipedia) is very different in content and context to the Indonesian language wikipedia

Which is why more consideration needs to be made beyond just 'pasting' items in from alien cultures...and so on 23:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

wikidata enthusiasts?
a recent query has misnamed a large number of indonesian locations in wikidata - any enthusiasts are encouraged to wander over into wikidata and check places that you know - and make sure that javanese kecamatans havent been named or described as villages in papua JarrahTree 13:47, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * An example would be nice as a starting point, because this sounds somewhat vague. --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:05, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * well said - JarrahTree 12:02, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The editor was identified as and the range was when


 * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Request_a_query#Q2225692 happened - it is likely it has been reverted

The suggestion is if you know from personal experience a district or collection of places that are on wikidata - a check to see whether the descriptions ring true (or not) JarrahTree 12:08, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I had a look at the query and the editor's contributions, I can't see what you mean. Can you point to a specific item and the issue? --Canley (talk) 14:23, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The editor had placed items which suggested Gianyar was a village in papua - gianyar is a regency in bali my understanding from reading Kreiger's talk suggests the collection of edits has been reverted. JarrahTree 14:37, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * my suggestion now is to simply ask any editor interested in indonesia - or places to have a look at the wikidata equivalent - out of interest - to see the wikdata item to ascertain similar mistakes havent occurred elsewhere in the indonesian project that might not have been similarly mis-described JarrahTree 14:39, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I see, a bulk application of the wrong description, which they self-reverted. In the morning, I'll do a query of the descriptions and the district/encompassing admin area to check if there are any more discrepancies like this across the whole country. --Canley (talk) 15:39, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you - appreciated JarrahTree 22:18, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Recent Page Moves
The changes have been made with reference to 'perfected spelling', I have asked for the editor for an explanation, specifically here.

Spoiler alert - many spelling changes have occurred - some with severity and vigour - in this project over the last ten years - this is nothing new, just we need to have a good location for explanation so that any further 'moving' might be understood or adequately and fairly contested in a central space.

JarrahTree 13:20, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Old images from Indonesia
Earlier this year Wikimedia Sweden and the Museum of World Culture uploaded 469 images from their collections of Walter Kauderns expedition to Celebes from way back. Have a look and see if any of the images are of use, help improve descriptions and categories, ask for translations, report errors and continue to do good stuff. /Axel Pettersson (WMSE) (talk) 13:14, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

No notability established, no refs added
There are many random village level articles where the village has not been established from WP:RS (of if it has been used has not been cited).. I do believe because of the random nature of many - most need to be removed, unless there can be established by WP:N and WP:RS.

For the very few editors who come here and discuss things, it would be good to see a discussion for the record, please. JarrahTree 04:34, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, if there is evidence of their existence, you could consider redirecting them to their parent administrative level. --HyperGaruda (talk) 11:53, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ahah - the silent elephant in the room - the massive addition some years ago of articles of lists of names of villages with no refs and no text, just lists of names of villages in next level up. JarrahTree 12:03, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


 * It would be easier to ref than to remove maybe. If not possible, maybe start throwing AfDs around. Not a fan of the regency articles by any means and it honestly might be better to get existing editors in a miniproject to fix them a few at a time. Juxlos (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


 * If you are suggesting a task force - there are many village stubs that are in all probability never able to be referenced for notability, and only exist because they are linked to a district or higher level of government. There is a very important point to make about village - district criterion for exclusion or inclusion into this project. JarrahTree 13:47, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Per WP:GEOLAND they’re assumed notable although they can definitely use at least a single citation from BPS. Juxlos (talk) 14:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


 * ahh, the Indonesian acronym system - Badan Pusat Statistic... many years ago I used to check their lists.. JarrahTree 15:07, 23 May 2018 (UTC).

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  07:42, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion Kristiani Herrawati to Ani Yudhoyono
There is a move discussion I made at Talk:Kristiani Herrawati. I hope the editors in this WikiProject would join the discussion because the page view of that page is very few. Thank you. --Hddty. (talk) 10:35, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

RFC: MOS for Indonesia articles and scripts
In English wikipedia - there is a fairly well established practice of limiting the usage of non-english scripts and languages in articles.

Every now and then on the Malaysian and Indonesian project - Jawi and Javanese have been used.

It seems in the last conversation in this project - none of the editors remain in the project or wikipedia...


 * In commons the policy: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Language_policy
 * In Indonesia project:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Indonesia-related_articles
 * In Malaysia project:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Malaysia-related_articles
 * And very specifically - Vernacular languages and alternative scriptsAlternative languages and scripts such as Chinese, Indian or Jawi should not be included in any Malaysia-related article (apart from biographies), both in the text inline and infobox. The rationale behind this was agreed upon. - the editors formulating that no longer are current editors
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Malaysia/Archive_5#Alternate_scripts - most of those editors have left by now.

So there is a need for editors who remain in this project to discusse and re-affrim and or re-establish or re-define the parameters/limits on usage.

suggested addition to the policy page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Indonesia-related_articles

That a section be included As this is English wikipedia - usage of scripts in articles is limited to biography articles only, and that all other script usage is established at the project discussion page (ie here) - before being implemented with a recommendation that is open to review until a sufficient number of editors have discussed the issue on its merits against general MOS policy

Or something like it. This is meant in WP:AGF and not disparaging of the importance of language variation, but of unlimited usage of scripts overloading info boxes and lead paragraphs with duplicate usage. JarrahTree 14:57, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Regarding scripts, if Narendra Modi does not have a Hindi/whatever script I doubt we need any at least in the lead sentence. It’s fine and dandy in the body though. Juxlos (talk) 12:03, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Per WP:EN: "Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English." Basically other script should be added if it's the person's original name. Vladimir Putin has Russian script in his page because that is his original name (maybe even official name because it written on birth certificate). I don't think Javanese people like Joko Widodo has original name in Javanese, I bet he can't even read Javanese script. --Hddty. (talk) 12:51, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * But but. Place pages - ..West_Java, Yogyakarta and so on - in the lead sentence, and in the info box, as well as many other articles, I really think there has been serious sneaking in when no one is watching style of editing... Or am I missing something?  JarrahTree 14:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * They’re all fairly recent additions within the last year e.g. this. I say we remove the letters and be done with it for now. Juxlos (talk) 14:29, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I would like a very small concession - maybe info boxes only - no lead... if you read an article on a phone - the lead sentence on some of the infected items go gagaga with the script/variations... Info box only is easier... imho. I think it would be good to have a few other eds offer ideas or whatever before we change... JarrahTree 14:43, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

responses before we change idea


 * For places: Many administrative area (like Yogya or West Java) ocassionally use their local script in some official uses (e.g. sign in front of government building, letterhead, etc.) I'd say it's okay if someone adds it to infobox. People's names, however, I really doubt that people like Joko Widodo have Javanese script in their KTP or birth certificate, so IMO we can get rid of the non-Latin script unless we really find a good proof that somehow their original name is in that script. HaEr48 (talk) 20:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Another suggestion - is that the script creators are personally invited here - just in case they need further explanation as to why the practice might not benefit the article, and why the project has got to this point of re-stating a basic MOS point at this stage... That way there is consideration for the creators - and the project status.  Gently gently  (hati hati) does it, so that we are the least confrontational towards the more insistent script adders.  Thanks.  JarrahTree 23:41, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * JarrahTree, After some research on biography about President and Vice President of Indonesia I found that the user that add another script is User:Rafasyah Orvala Sukoco, User:Mufidkce, User:The Bangsawan, and some IP editors. Edit summary of every one of them when adding other script is only "Add Javanese/Jawi" without adding references. I suggest we have to remove ALL script on Indonesian biography articles. --Hddty. (talk) 03:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * still take it slowly, just in case other editors want to make comment. The evidence and trail of items on this page will be enough to convince some... JarrahTree 03:48, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Interesting topic though, in my opinion the localised script is part and parcel with the local and ethnic identity & history, rather than being neutralised under a common character. In some way, it is parallel with the Indonesian philosophy "bhineka tunggal ika" and it illustrates the diversity of Indonesian culture. That's the beauty of Indonesia.
 * P.S. I mainly concentrated on the Malay-related articles though, I never edited the articles on President and Vice President of Indonesia, I can't even read the Javanese script to begin with, as far as I concern.--د بڠساون (talk) 06:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * د بڠساون, actually you added Jawi script to Vice President of Indonesia Hamzah Haz in 2012 and the script still there until today. I agree that localised script is part of local identity but some of them used currently in Indonesian biography articles is probably made up or fake. --Hddty. (talk) 07:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * د بڠساون I agree the various scripts are part of Indonesian diversity or identity, but that's not the issue here. The issue is the common practice in this English Wikipedia, whose readers mostly read English in the Latin script, probably only a tiny minority of them would benefit from indiscriminately adding non-Latin versions of names, and whose Manual of styles (as JarrahTree quoted above) strongly restrict when non-Latin versions of names are appropriate to include. HaEr48 (talk) 07:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I'd say if there is no source then remove it (I bet that accounts for >90% of all non-Latin versions): it is most likely original research, and Wikipedia doesn't do WP:OR. --HyperGaruda (talk) 17:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Phew, that was from way-way back when. I could only recall Jusof Kalla from my recent memory though haha. But then again, I merely adopted the usage on the name based on the Singaporean National Registration Identity Card that illustrates the official name in Jawi. A system which is fairly absent in the Malaysian and Indonesian official ID card (the latter was from the respective ethnic groups). Having said that, well, I guess I should left you guys for the ultimatum, since ethnic script is not being used for official purpose in one's name in Indonesia. :) --د بڠساون (talk) 08:43, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

UTC)
 * It’s cool and all that Singapore uses Malay script for some purposes, it simply doesn’t exist in Indonesia, at least for official correspondence and documents. I’m also unaware of basically any Indonesian media written in anything outside latin script (except maybe some Chinese ones) so any Jawi/Arabic script would be a transliteration which have not been used before. Juxlos (talk) 09:21, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Conclusion
It's been twenty days since the discussion started and the conversations seem to be stopped. So what is the conclusion of this discussion? Hddty. (talk) 13:58, 23 June 2018 (UTC)


 * 2 things. WP:NODEADLINE and wait and see - it is as though there is an impasse - which happens often in collaborative projects like wikipedia - the preponderance of jawi script addition appears to have slowed down. If this was jawi wikipedia, there would be nothing to wait for.  However if a spate of the previous editing pattern re-emerges - then there is a need for a specific attention from those who have discussed so far as to what and how the policy might be established and accepted.  The script adders have not ventured into this space to discuss their additions, and that in itself suggests a clue.  I would suggest a wait until July - nothing further in terms of large scale additions, and no further comments here, that then, would be worth having a resolution from those involved above - to establish a project policy regarding script usage.


 * Noting that there are other forms of script in multiple forms in some articles - lead sentence and info boxes - and whether that is acceptable - on the basis that it is unlikely that an english speaking editor is very unlikely to be able to access software or processes to establish or verify whether the script is in actual fact correct. Which leads to the problem whether all script additions are open to abuse (or not).


 * Further - many users do not see the script as their language/ script library on their computer just turns the script into lots of grey boxes. JarrahTree 14:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Probably the most suitable conclusion is what I see in the info box in Surabaya; it takes an array of scripts and variants in the box only and does not intrude into the main text of the article, whereas Yogyakarta duplicates and has a very messy lead sentence, and Surakarta is closer to Surabaya, but nevertheless has a repeat in lead sentence and the info box... JarrahTree 14:35, 24 June 2018 (UTC)


 * For me WP:DEADLINENOW. From three editors that I mentioned above that add non-Latin script on bio about President and Vice President of Indonesia, The Bangsawan has showed up here, Rafasyah Orvala Suko has blocked indefinitely and Mufidkce never editing since April 2017. I think I will go on and remove all non-Latin script in only bio articles about President and Vice President of Indonesia. Hddty. (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * On the basis there is no specific evidence of the origins of the items added, and therefore WP:OR and lack of WP:RS to verify, and the fact of the blocking and lack of response here to date, one might say - please - go ahead - monggo monggo... JarrahTree 00:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You have my blessing. Don't forget to refer to this discussion in your edit summary, or else you'll be engulfed with reverts by unknowing editors. --HyperGaruda (talk) 18:30, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

IRC or something
Out of curiosity, does this WP still have an active IRC channel or something along the lines of that? Juxlos (talk) 01:02, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know but from this project page the channel is #wikipedia-id. --Hddty. (talk) 02:07, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * yeah, I tried that one but no luck - is it still active? If not I want to invite the members here to join the Discord server at WP:Discord Juxlos (talk) 02:16, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Split discussion
Would appreciate opinion for whether to split Indonesian general election, 2019 into respective articles for the presidential and the legislative elections. Please comment on Talk:Indonesian general election, 2019. HaEr48 (talk) 09:16, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Perfected spelling/Ejaan yang disempurnakan (EYD)
Why only Sukarno and Suharto that use EYD while on the other hand we have many articles that don't use EYD such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, Boediono, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama and others. Is there a consensus on this? Hddty. (talk) 01:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looking through the article's talk page archives, the WP:COMMONNAMEs in English sources are Sukarno and Suharto. You can always try to start a renaming discussion, but I can already tell you now: it is just about impossible to overrule a Wikipedia-wide law like WP:COMMONNAME. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC).
 * It seems puzzling that the spelling "Suharto" is used on Wikipedia. I have gone along with it for a long time because it seems so hard to challenge but I am uncomfortable with the approach.  My understanding is that when the EYD system was introduced in Indonesia in the early 1970s, it was agreed that individuals could choose how to spell their names and whether to adopt EYD for their own names or not.  Many Indonesians, including Soeharto, chose to stick with the old spelling.  It is clear that "Soeharto" is the official spelling of the President's name.  It is clear that this is the spelling he used himself. All official documents and statements issued in his name use "Soeharto", and his main official autobiography (G. Dwipayana and Ramadhan K.H., 1989, Soeharto: Pikiran, ucapan dan tindakan saya: otobiografi,  PT Citra Lamtoro Gung Persada) uses "Soeharto".  Similarly, the extensive string of books and articles issued by his family in memory of him use the spelling "Soeharto". My own preference, both here and elsewhere, would be for Wikipedia to aim to stick to the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject of any article. Pmccawley (talk) 01:38, 22 July 2018 (UTC)


 * This has happened for over ten years on wikipedia. It goes around and around in circles and when it seems resolved, along comes another person to contradict and in most cases revert/reverse an earlier resolution.  I do think that if anyone bother to read the above item by Peter McCawley, that we take notice, and stick to the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject - otherwise the templates that are thrown up like commonname simply end up in further down the line reverts. JarrahTree 09:01, 26 July 2018 (UTC)


 * My thanks to our good colleague JarrahTree for this comment. I'd just like to add one small additional comment to my suggestion that the best principle is to use the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject of the article. My comment is to mention that my own name is McCawley and I'd regard it as wrong if somebody arbitrarily decided to start spelling my name MacCawley.  The name McCawley is on my birth certificate, drivers licence, and so on.  MacCawley is somebody else as far as I'm concerned.  In Indonesia, the former Vice President spells his name Boediono, not Budiono.  There are lots of people called Budiono around, of course, but there has never been an Indonesian Vice President with the name Budiono.  It seems odd, therefore, that Wikipedia opts for Suharto.  It seems wrong to me.   Pmccawley (talk) 10:29, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

IndonesiaRegenciesMap.svg


Bit of a long shot, but does anyone here either know how to make svg maps or know whoever made the regency/provinces map? I feel like having IndonesiaRegenciesMap.svg like the US counties would come in handy in a lot of articles. Juxlos (talk) 05:40, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You could try asking at Graphics Lab/Map workshop. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * How did you make this? HaEr48 (talk) 20:35, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't make it, if anything I'm asking if someone can make it Juxlos (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I was asking how you made the Banten election map (according to Commons it's made by you), and it appears to have regency boundaries. HaEr48 (talk) 00:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I based it off the regency map for Banten and just used the bucket tool. Though, national-level regency maps don't exist just yet. Juxlos (talk) 00:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I see. Now I remember seeing this very impressive website, which has a a nicely colored map of the 2014 election results. You can scroll down to see kabupaten (regency) and even kecamatan level. The page has a technical note about how the map is generated. I tried to follow it and it seems that the regency boundaries come from this file: . On the face of it it seems with the right skill it can be transformed into the regency map you're talking about. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near having that particular skill. I'm not sure how technical you are though. Anyway, I hope this helps you in the right direction. HaEr48 (talk) 01:20, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * As it happens, the shapefiles the user used was licensed under CC-BY-SA 4.0 so I'll see around if there's anything I can figure to make the file. Thanks a lot! Juxlos (talk) 01:28, 1 August 2018 (UTC)