User talk:Bobfrombrockley

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Re: my edit summary on Neo-fascism and religion
Hi, Bob - I just now saw my edit summary on Neo-fascism and religion, and I just want to be sure you don't think I was "shouting" -- I used the ALLCAPS only because there's no bold available in edit summaries. (I hope my explanation was clear enough!) Cheers :) Cgingold 14:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have read it that way, but that's really nice of you to be worried. I think I'm persuaded too. BobFromBrockley 16:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

RfC on Mitsos
Hi. I'm acting as advocate for an editor who has been having issues with Mitsos. As part of the DR process, we have opened an RfC in order to get community input on behavior that several users feel is uncivil and biased. Seeing as how you have interacted with Mitsos in the past, we would appreciate any input you may have on the matter. Please visit the Request for Comment page and leave your thoughts. Thanks very much, →Bobby ← 16:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!!
I noticed you edit Jewish related articles. Would you be interested in joining wikiproject:Judaism? ta! frummer 12:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

New Left
Hi, I just noticed you've run across that good old anonymous author who wrecked havoc on the Salvador Allende article recently. He's been recently banned for personal attacks and the Allende article (even it's talk page for a few days) had to be locked from editing by annon's. He's even attacked a number of admins over those issues. If I were you I'd report him if he continues his disruptive edits, though a long term block is not an option as his IP changes daily.--Caranorn 20:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Have been away from wikipedia for a while, will see if he has struck again, and then consider reporting. BobFromBrockley 17:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the site! It's a privilege to work with you. As you probably know, you are among only a handful of specialists working on articles related to 20th century politics. 172 | Talk 17:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks 172! I'm not sure how much of a specialist I am though... BobFromBrockley 15:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Rejiocing
Glad to hear that you're not upset about the 'rejiocing' incident. At the time, I assumed that you were a patriotard, and was unaware of your stance regarding the whole "class war" thing. *raises fist* As for "Jewish anarchism", I assume that JaneDoe put the link in on the basis of who I am as a person, rather than what I write on my blog. DayKart 11:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Fascism and Nazism as representative forms of socialism
I am sorry to bother you, but I really need some help. There is an ongoing campaign by a few editors to portray Fascism and Nazism as representative forms of socialism. As part of this effort (a debate that stretches back to 2004), there are a tiny handful of editors who revert and redirect National Socialism to Nazism. I believe a majority of editors support redirecting National Socialism to National Socialism (disambiguation). I realize we just had a poll on the Nazism page where I thought this issue was settled, but apparently the struggle is not over. Please consider voting in the new poll, or adding a comment at: Talk:Nazism. Also consider notifying other editors with an interest in this matter. I am doing the best I can, but need assistance. Thanks.--Cberlet 19:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for types of socialism
Hello. I've wanted for some time to re-integrate types of socialism into the main socialism article, and I was hoping you could help me with this project. The "controversial classifications" section should be moved to a new article entitled interpretations of socialism (temporary proposed title), where we should talk about all the different definitions of socialism used by self-identified socialists. The rest should be checked for quality, improved if necessary, and then finally moved to socialism. What do you think? -- Nikodemos 07:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * After a day or two of thought, I'm still really undecided on that. I think the article as it is is pretty poor, but I think it has a purpose. I'd like it make clear there have been three major currents of socialism: revolutionary or Marxian socialism, democratic socialism and social democracy, and libertarian socialism, as well as other minor currents, such as the ethnic ones. Each of the sections would give brief description of that tradition, name some major figure and movements, and then really briefly introduce the major sub-categories within them (e.g. revolutionary socialism would introduce Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism, etc, with no more than a sentence each). However, this would mean a complete re-write, very time consuming, so maybe your solution is better. Have you raised this on the discussion pages of the relevant articles? BobFromBrockley 15:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, having looked at liberalism and conservatism, I think I've come over to your position. So, is this right, socialism should have:


 * some history (which is there now, but perhaps could be trimmed, as there is a history of socialism article)
 * something on the main schools of socialism (akin to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Trends_within_liberalism section or the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism#Schools_of_Conservatism section
 * something on socialist political theory and economics
 * perhaps something on socialism today
 * Is that what you're thinking? But clearly this needs to be raised on talk pages first. BobFromBrockley 15:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Daniel McGowan
I reverted your edit to this article because I'm pretty sure that this guy, who wrote the article you linked to, is not the subject of the Daniel McGowan article here. --OnoremDil 11:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! BobFromBrockley 11:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Jewish Socialists' Group
No problem; I'm glad to help.

I've done a lot of work on the Szmul Zygielbojm article, and I had put a "dead link" in there to the JSG, so I was pleasantly surprised to find a new article about the JSG. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 19:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yiddishism
A tag has been placed on Yiddishism, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. - Tiswas (t) 15:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Principles of Socialism
One thing that Lenin said that is almost universally agreed by socialists was in his State and Revolution. Where under the section for "the First Phase of Communist Society" he outlined the two basic economic principles of socialism:

"He who does not work, neither shall he eat." and "An equal ammount of products for an equal ammount of labor"

As you know there's already an article for "From each according to ability, to each according to need" which is the economic principle of communist society. Do you think that there should be an article for the economic principles of socialism, since they have been mentioned by every major contributor to Marxist theory? Since you are one of the few people on wikipedia who isn't full of themselves and knows what he's talking about, I felt I had to ask before I made the article. (Demigod Ron 02:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC))
 * Thanks for kind words! There is a socialist economics page - maybe what you're talking about could be a section there? Perhaps in this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_economics#After_Marx ? BobFromBrockley 12:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

After much procrastination, I made the article he who does not work, neither shall he eat. Check it out and tell me what you think. Right now its bare-bones, but I'm sure the other Marxists will eventually find it and contribute their own knowledge.


 * Looks good, Demigod. I have done a minor edit, and added one inbound link. BobFromBrockley 14:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Now I'm trying to figure out how to write "an equal amount of products for an equal amount of labor" since that slogan has been said several different ways. In the Gotha critique Marx said something along the lines of "the worker recieves from society...exactly what he gives to it." While Lassalle said that "the worker recieves the undiminished product of his labor." Even Stalin had his own version of the slogan. This will make that article difficult to tackle. If you have any ideas, do tell. (Demigod Ron 00:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

entrism in the Uk labour Party
Hi Bob, Thanks for taking the time to read through all that stuff! You are quite right, this piece of mine would skew the entrism page. I'll make a new article and we can just do a link.

Just to let you know, on the socialism article, I have a couple of proposals in the "mixed economy" discussion Talk:Socialism.

I'm happy to accept red deathy's recommendations on them, but with the reservation that in the future we should draw up a short paragraph indicating the socialist critique of the Soviet Union. I have worked up some references, and have a clear idea what I want, but got no further, and will hopefully return to it at some point.

In relation to my point 3. in Talk:Socialism I know that in any article, changing the opening lines of the article needs careful consideration, and again I'm in no hurry. I understand your caution. Jacob Haller has added a comment as you know, and I have attempted a draft, drawing from the same sources as 172 did. Indeed, this para is from

I've no outstanding discussions on the history of socialism talk page (that I know of), but I think there is much to be done. Andysoh 20:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Fascist Action – an Anarchist perspective
Bob, feel free to delete this if you already know about it, but a new "part history and part political analysis" on AFA has just been published - you might get a review copy if you ask for one from the publisher. The text is not available online: it was printed (in cut form) in Black Flag and has been 'adapted' (not very well) by libcom.

Labour Theory of Value
I have not deleted your reference to John Locke on this page though it has previously been discussed and rejected. Locke essentially advanced a labour theory of property - which is not the same thing. Moreover, Locke is attempting to justify property whereas Marx etc are trying to explain price, which is a real world phenomenon, justified or otherwise. Marx, for one, argues that labour-based valuation is unjustified (See Gotha Program).--Jack Upland 09:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jack. I was new to the article, and came to it from another, where Locke and labour theory of value were invoked, and noticed no mention of Locke on LTOV article. I think Locke is important in development of LTOV, even if it may not be accurate to say he articulated it. I'll have another look. Thanks for graciously not deleting! BobFromBrockley 09:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

On reflection I think it should stay because someone is always going to reinsert it. The text as it stands says that the LTV is 'traced' to Locke, which is suitably non-committal. Marx cites Franklin as the originator of the theory. I haven't read all the texts so I can't comment. I have read extracts from Locke which explain his justification of property, though, and these are not economic as such, but rather a - very historically inaccurate - explanation and justification of social inequaliy. I am extremely wary of anything that lends support to the misrepresentation of the LTV as a theory of what ought to be rather than what is. This leads to a totally misunderstanding of its application and falsifies its place in the history of economic thought - Adam Smith & co didn't see it as moralistic.--Jack Upland 18:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've re-read the article, and think that the way it is formulated does not say that Locke authored the LTV, so I don't think it is inaccurate. It seems to me he should be mentioned in the article, but obviously not in a way that distorts his views. So, feel free to edit it out if you think it makes too strong a claim! BobFromBrockley 09:30, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

As I said, should be OK as is - better inside the tent pissing out etc...--Jack Upland 17:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Coalition operations article
I just wanted to let you know that thefeargod already stripped out most of the information from the article stating that it was already in other locations on wikipedia. His intent it seems is to leave a page full of tables of operations with little or no desciption of what they are for.--Kumioko 19:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of Das Naye Leben
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The Jewish Bolshevism by The Britons with a Forward by Alfred Rosenberg
Dear Wikipedian, I thought you might be interested in the note (below) I've left on the Protocols of Zion page.

'''Dear dedicated fellow Wikipedians,
 * Those of you who know about The Protocols know that when it/thy reached the West, like Rats from a sinking ship, used it through "appropriate" anonymous editorial commentary, to blame the Jews for Bolshevism. So I would imagine that you all would be interested in what's happening to the article above. I hope you guys and gals can come over there and contribute your valuable input and, hopefully, support, to the changes I've found it necesary to make.
 * Best regards,'''


 * Best wishes to you, --Ludvikus 18:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Council of the People's Commissars & A Protocol of 1919
Nice work at The Jewish Bolshevism!!! Much appreciated.
 * I'd like to solicit your help in the above. I'm tracing the roots of Jewish Bolshevism.
 * I think I'm getting Reversions from contemporary White Russians. And I think your in the above input would be helpful.
 * Best, --Ludvikus 23:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Have had a look and made some minor edits, plus have commented at talkpage of Jewish Bolshevism. All are now on my watchpage. BobFromBrockley 09:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Territorialsim
Hello, I saw your comments on the talk page for Territorialism. I am comfused why the JAO was so hard to get included in the article. I have added the following to the article, with a proper reference, and posted it on its talk page;

Apart from the (ITO), within the USSR there was also a Territorialist effort in Ukraine, the Crimea and then towards Birobidzan, where a "Jewish Autonomous Region" was established in 1934. Thanks and take good care. Culturalrevival 11:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that Zionists are unwilling to accept that there were a range of different forms of Jewish political movements, including non-Zionist forms of Jewish nationalism, and are unwilling to accept that there was a historical period when the Stalinist project coincided in some of its aims with Jewish national aspirations. Some of the same editors who have tried to keep the JAO out of articles like Territorialism also reject the need for a Jewish nationalism article, as they do not believe that there are other forms of Jewish nationalism than Zionism. BobFromBrockley 10:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Three Distinctive Aspects of Neoconservatism
Thank you for combining these with the three pilers of neoconservatism. Nice work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.5.247.152 (talk) 15:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Milly Witkop
Hi Bob, since her name is on your to-do list, I thought you might be interested that I've started working on an article about Milly Witkop. It's currently still a sub-page of my user page. Feel free to contribute nonetheless.--Carabinieri 01:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's brilliant Carabinieri. I'll try and add stuff later! By the way, I liked the pages you've been involved in creating. BobFromBrockley 14:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Great. Thanks, I'm not unimpressed by your work.--Carabinieri 00:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Majer Bogdanski
Hello Bob. We are purging talk pages without articles. I came across one you'd made with notes/refs for a Majer Bogdanski article, so I moved it into your user space. It is now at User:Bobfrombrockley/Majer Bogdanski. All the best! Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome
-- though actually it wasn't that box that you lifted from my page, but the other two. Glad to see that others find them relevant! RolandR 15:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for doing some cleanup work on the Iraqi Insurgency article. That article was a mess! It still is but far better now. Before it sounded like it was writen by a insurgent, or a supporter of the insurgency. Do you plan on doing more work on the article? Cheers!--SJP 00:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to keep monitoring it, to make sure the Resistance polemic doesn't creep back in, but I don't think I have the time or knowledge to do the work that really needs doing of updating it and stripping out OR. Thanks too for your excellent work on it! BobFromBrockley 14:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Your welcome:) When I find the time, I will try to source it some more, and take out some more OR. Have a nice day.--SJP 22:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Maurice Ludmer
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Finkelstein, Chomsky and "Jewish origin" in the anti-Zionism article
Hi Bob,

I notice you've hacked around with the attempt by someone in Anti-Zionism to claim that Finkelstein and Chomsky aren't really proper Jews at all but just have a Jewish origin. I felt it necessary to insert more from Chomsky to demonstrate that he regards himself as someone who grew up a Jew with views on Zionism that would not have been out of the ordinary at the time. At least he hasn't yet been labelled as self-hating in the article.--Peter cohen (talk) 22:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a very good quote you inserted Peter. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bob. I found it elsewhere on Wiki.
 * BTW, I found your library list an interesting skim. Nice to see Bakunin, Kropotkin and Rocker on a Marxist's list. And we also have books my Moorcock, Rushdie, Sinclair and Ackroyd in common.--Peter cohen (talk) 10:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Germinal
Hi Bob, it's me again. I created a page about the Jewish anarchist journal Germinal from London. Since you appear to have some command of the Hebrew alphabet, could you add the original Yiddish spelling to the beginning of the article?--Carabinieri (talk) 04:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Carabinieri, I really appreciate the work you're doing on wikipedia! The transliteration of the issue in the jpeg is Zsherminal, which is what the article says. In standard Yiddish now, I think it would have been written differently, in a way that would be transliterated as Dzherminal (with the zh bit sounding like a French J, as in jamais), because there is no letter for the J sound (as in Englsh judge) in Yiddish, but spelling then was idiosyncratic, especially as Rocker was, as you note in the article, only a learner - essentially he wrote German in Hebrew letters. The headline on the front page in the jpeg is "Der anarchizmus un di menshliche shprache" which I think roughly means "Anarchism and human language", but in a very German version of Yiddish. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. Israel Narodiczky/Yisroel Naroditski deserves a page of his own, as playing a key role in the lives of Isaac Rosenberg, Hayyim Nahman Bialik and Avram Stencl as well as Rocker. Another task to add to the list... BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, I can understand that (without any knowledge of Yiddish, just German). What I was asking is if you could add the Hebrew letters to the article, like the articles on Israel or Yiddishkeit. This may sound too simple, considering there's an image with the Hebrew letters right in the article, but looking at my keyboard all I see is Latin letters and I have no idea how to do this. Currently, I'm working on a couple of other topics, but I'll look into Israel Narodiczky.--Carabinieri (talk) 05:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, never mind. Danny has added the Yiddish name now.--Carabinieri (talk) 19:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry: I completely misunderstood. Glad Danny got there. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

library thing
I see that you use Library Thing and you use Wikiuserboxes. Did you know you can make one of these?



Cheers, Kingturtle (talk) 19:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fantastic, thank you! I'll put it on my userpage. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Commission on Integration and Cohesion
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Gilad Atzmon
Hi Bob

Please look at the discussion on Talk:Gilad Atzmon about reliable sources and Jews Against Zionism, and chip in with any thoughts tou may have. RolandR (talk) 08:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

ZPSD, PZ, etc.
I think we can quite safely conclude now that JSDP and PZ are not the same. However, this underlines the importance of creating precise organizational article on PZ, rather than describing it as a diffuse international movement. For exampe we need a Jewish Social Democratic Workers Party (Poalei Zion) article (or possibly more, were the Polish and Russian parties separate entities?). --Soman (talk) 13:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that these specific party pages are needed - although I think they should be in addition to the main page. Of course, there are a number of problems that will come up(although these can be dealt with): in particular the fact that changing borders in Central/Eastern Europe meant that national parties often split and fused in complicated ways, making it harder to pin them down, and the fact that these parties were operating in more than one language, and their names in different languages might not translate directly... I am very busy at the moment, but I will try and work on this project.BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Martin Wright and fascism
Yo Bob, could you explain the rationale behind this edit? Is the quote not from the citation referenced? Skomorokh 11:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In one sentence mentioning Martin W in an aside in a paragraph about Class War in a book that covers an immense amount of ground about thousands of years of London history, Clive Bloom does say that Martin W was "drawn to" fascism, but gives no explanation about what this vague term means, or what evidence there is for this. (There is no source cited.) In fact, Martin Wright was never drawn to fascism, and it seems to me scurilous in a biography of a living (and indeed ill) person to mention an accusation that has one single dubious and ambiguous source. BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. Wright has said that as a teenager in the late 1960s, he accepted some of Enoch Powell's message, but that by the time he reached adulthood he had long left this behind him. But that is a big difference from saying he was "drawn to fascism", whatever that means. I don't think it is appropriate that Wikipedia contributes to a smear. BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Zionism and Racism
Greetings, Bob. I just wanted to say that I agreed with your comments at the AfD for Zionism and Racism, except for one, which is what I wanted to just schmuz with you about for a second. You said that the demonisation of a country is OK, and not reason to delete an article. It seems to me that that is not what an encyclopedia is all about, and while we might have "issues" about Pakistan or Syria or India, for example; an encyclopedia would not carry articles expressly demonising those countries -- if there were criticism, it would be put into the appropriate article, eg Pakistan or Israel. Or re Israel, Finklestein's theories could be discussed on the Finklestein page etc. Isn't that in a way what the WP:NOT is talking about when it talks about a climate of mutual respect? It strikes me that this article is just another negative platform for discussion of Israel and as such breaks a number of rules. I'd appreciate your thoughts. Otherwise I agree with you 100% and  thought your comment extremely well written and well thought-out. --Tundrabuggy (talk) 15:06, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Tundrabuggy. I did not mean that it is OK for Wikipedia to demonise a country; I would be completely against that, and spend some of my wikipedia time trying to address such things. If an article by definition demonises a country, then it has no right to exist. But if a valid article is written in a POV way to demonise a country, than it can be edited to not do so. As it stood, the article was a soapbox platform, but it could be otherwise. Unfortunately, it is flawed in so many other ways, that it needs to go! BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Cocaine Blues
Actually, I don't much care for the wording I used, but at least it has no ambiguity to it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Red Action
You had stated in the discussion page of Red Action that you are friends with some of the members. I have tried to contact them but so far have not had any luck in doing so. I'm interested in their group and was hoping to ask them some questions concerning their beliefs, stance on certain subjects and membership status. Is there any way you could put me in touch with them? Otherwise, if you feel equipped to answer these questions I would be more than happy to get your e-mail or give you mine to converse. Any help you could provide in this area would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.91.184.187 (talk) 17:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I am completely out of touch with all the Red Action people I used to know. You could try approaching via one of the IWCA websites, which are probably more regularly used than the RA one. RA are, understandably, very cagey about these sorts of contacts though! BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Anti-Zionism
I think your recent edit to Anti-Zionism was lost when I undid a change made by CJCurrie. The issue was the necessity of presenting context first, and was not you edit. Sorry. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 13:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Alexander Schapiro
Greetings, Bob. I've written two articles on Jewish anarchists you might be interested in; Alexander Schapiro and Sascha Schapiro. I think you mentioned one of them in a blog post somewhere, so if you have anything to add or correct, it would be most appreciated! Regards, Skomorokh  04:18, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Great articles! Thanks for the tip.BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello!
I read your message in my discussion page about the ideology of PDL. I think as you that this party is collocated at the right-wing position because some politics of the party are rightist such as the immigration, the economic politics and the populism of the leader. In my country (Italy) says that PDL is a center-right party but I don't believe in it because there are a lot of nao-fascists and conservative liberals and the christian democrats are in minority. So I join with you for this proposal. --Baf09 (talk) 14:59, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:59, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Circassian diaspora
Hello Bob--I hope you don't mind, but I nominated your article for WP:DYK. Congratulations on producing an interesting read, Drmies (talk) 03:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello! Your submission of Circassian diaspora at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  — Toдor Boжinov — 15:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I didn't write it, I just removed it from the diaspora article, as it seemed to me to stand alone as an article! BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see that now--and as such it is not eligible for DYK. Also, I was instructed to put a "copied" template on the article to provide proper attribution per GDFL; see User_talk:Ucucha. Next time you copy and move information, please don't forget to provide proper attribution. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I didn't know about the copied template, although it should have been instinctually obvious to me to say something on the talk page of the new article.BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The Promise
Hi Bob Re your alteration to the synopsis of ep 1 of The Promise, "...Israeli clubbers are depicted as callously laughing at her plight...", could I make an observation? The clubbers are laughing because they think Erin is drunk and has passed out. This is made clear when Eliza subsequently says "Fuck off; can't you see she's epileptic?". My concern with your change is that it suggest the clubbers are laughing callously because Erin is fitting when dialogue makes it pretty clear that that is not the case. Best wishes Peter Kosminsky (talk) 14:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it does look as though you are insinuating an insensitivity on the part of those Israeli clubbers. Your drama is politically loaded. What a viewer will take from it is a point about Israelis in general, their callousness.Zkharya (talk) 16:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


 * As an dramatic ploy by you, it is particularly crass, your having scarcely visited Israel, nor knowing much to anything about the Israeli club scene, or the people that do it. They are probably more clued about that kind of thing than the average British clubber, since basic medical training is part of national service. That is a particularly glaring screw up in one such as yourself, Kominsky, whose specialité are things military. You're a bit Anglo-centric, Kominsky, and a bit behind the times.Zkharya (talk) 16:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks Peter. I get your point, and maybe it should be worded differently. (I also committed a bad and failed to uncheck "minor edit" for that rather major one.) My experience of clubbing most people wouldn't laugh at someone shaking like that; shaking is not a sign of drunkenness, so if they thought she was drunk I still think they are portrayed as callous and unpleasant. That was a scene in the drama I found problematic and unconvincing. I'll go and look at the wording now.BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:50, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Bob. Much appreciated.  Sorry the scene didn't work for you.  Best wishes Peter Kosminsky (talk) 16:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Bob. I see that you have added a section to The Promise page on the reaction to the programme's broadcast in France.  You cite the Jewish Chronicle as your source, as you do for your addition on the OFCOM report.  As far as I'm aware, their are other French sources for what occurred in France.  After reading the Jewish Chronicle report, I approached Canal+ for clarification.  They told me that the demonstration was smaller than the figure quoted in the JC, as borne out by the video of the event posted on the French pressure group's website, that no meeting with a senior Canal+ executive took place specifically to discuss The Promise (Le Sermont) and no special caption or logo was inserted in front of each episode to remind the audience that what followed was drama.  Canal+ have a generic drama logo that was used with Le Sermont, but this is deployed in front of every drama they transmit in the Monday 9pm slot.  To suggest that a special caption was generated for The Promise is wrong.  I do see the difficulty here, given that none of the above is 'sourceable', but I would urge you to seek other sources for what occurred in France to corroborate what is being said by the Jewish Chronicle, which has become unremittingly hostile to the programme.  Best wishes Peter Kosminsky (talk) 07:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have changed the language for now, to make sure that it is clear that this is JC reportage not truth, and will look for more sources.BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Good work with your edits today: well done! Best wishes Headhitter (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tidying up after me!BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:16, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I obviously have to be careful how I say this, as I don't want you to be accused of being my creature or in my pocket, but do you mind if I also say well done on some very elegant editing? The piece is very accurate and balanced, as far as I can see. Thank you. Best wishes Peter Kosminsky (talk) 14:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Bob. I noticed your dialogue on The Promise on User talk:Zkharya.  You refer to the fact that quotes from the Jewish Chronicle ought to be given special prominence on the page.  I was puzzled by this remark.  In thinking about it, it struck me that the site contains no quotes from Palestinian sources, though several are available.  Since the dialogue you are having with Zkharya pertains to the content of The Promise wikipage, could I suggest that it might be better conducted on the discussion page for that site, where other editors linked to that site can read and comment?
 * I haven't checked what I wrote on Z's page, but I don't think I said the JC ought to be given "special prominence", but I think that Z is correct that the JC is the main media outlet within the Jewish community in the UK, and that it is the best source on mainstream UK Jewish opinion. And I think that the UK Jewish response to the series is very relevant, because of the subject matter, so I do not see it as problematic that the JC is well represented in the article. I was making comments at Z's talk page in order to explain my edits of Z's edits, in order to defuse tension. The editing of the article, and especially z's edits, have been hot-tempered, and I think that it is best to proceed by consensus and with calmness, and I felt that a comment there was the best way to achieve that. Does that make sense?BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Bob. It makes sense but doesn't really answer the points I was raising.  I can understand why you feel Jewish response to The Promise - at least as expressed in the pages of the Jewish Chronicle - might be especially relevant.  By the same token, and if Wikipedia is to be seen to maintain the impartiality for which it is rightly known, Palestinian response is also especially relevant.  And yet editors do not seem to have rushed to include such reaction, even though it is readily available.
 * I asked whether discussion of content of The Promise pages, (eg your remark: P.S. Am toying with the idea of fleshing out the historical "Subjects depicted in the serial" section, which would show where the series is and where it isn't accurately reflecting real events. I've started doing that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobfrombrockley/The_Promise It would be great if you could work on this with me, and when it is in shape we can paste it in and see what happens), wouldn't be better placed on the discussion site adjacent to The Promise. This would allow other interested editors to add their thoughts.  As you know, discussion of the content has already taken place outside Wikipedia on various special interest blogs.  Peter Kosminsky (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that Palestinian response is also relevant. It would be very good to have some included in the article, for the same reasons. If I have time I will work on that too - adding to my already large to do list!
 * On the sandbox page, yes, probably should mention on talk page. I was planning to do so after I'd done some work on it. Trouble is, I am really busy right now and don't have time, so it's just an idea I was tinkering with.BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Belsen footage and Auschwitz

 * Also, could I ask how you know that footage used at the start of Ep 1 of The Promise was from Auschwitz? Best wishes Peter Kosminsky (talk) 15:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't "know" this. As I wrote in the article, "According to Annette Wieviorka,..." and there's a citation there to my source of her statement. Wieviorka, btw, is a pretty respected historian. Is she wrong?BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I was referring to your entry at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobfrombrockley/The_Promise. Peter Kosminsky (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry I see. Yes, something like that should not go into the article without a reference. Is it correct, by the way?BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and thank you for your kind words at 14:56, 13 May 2011 above. It feels very odd, and a privilege, to have this conversation, through this medium! BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:05, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It's very kind of you to say so, (as I said earlier, I hope me thanking you won't get you into difficulty here).
 * Re your point above: all the material we used in that section came from the Imperial War Museum and was licensed as such. We asked them for material from B-B and it arrived on a disk labelled B-B.  I suppose it is possible that an error was made at source but I think it unlikely.  Also, as I understand it, you are quoting second hand, i.e. from a source referred to by a journalist writing in La Croix.  That journalist, uniquely amongst those who interviewed me in Paris after the screening, was troubled by the fact that, in his contention, the difference between a death camp and a concentration camp had not been made explicit in the film.  As you know, many thousands died in B-B and the remarks Len makes in his diary were very closely based on the diaries, letters and books written by those British soldiers who were there at the time.  I am afraid that, for them - and therefore for a character like Len - the difference between the two categories of camps appears to have been academic, given that their main task on arrival was to shovel and bulldoze enormous piles of dead bodies into open pits.  I could not understand the La Croix journalist's concern, which was expressed in the context of a generally negative response to the programme.  He did not mention a historian during our conversation, referring to the issue as his own opinion at that stage.  I hope this helps.  Best wishes.Peter Kosminsky (talk) 13:18, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Have edited the article to qualify the citation. I will add further work on that to my to-do list! BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I have to say I didn't know what to do with the La Croix text when I first covered it for the article.

In addition to what you've already quoted in the footnote: Laurent Loucher quotes Annette Wieviorka, a French historian of the Holocaust who has written about the liberation of the camp, to suggest that film sequences from Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz were mixed together, in a problematic way: "Viewers will believe that the British, liberating the camp of Bergen-Belsen, liberated the Jews from a death camp. However, Bergen-Belsen was a concentration camp. To support his claim, Kosminsky blends footage shot at Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz. Thus, the film is constructed, the first few minutes, on a montage which appears as true but which is already false. Which, in what follows, allows him to suggest that the survivors are ungrateful." the La Croix article then added the further paragraph: She added "Should we remember that these liberators confined the death camp survivors in barracks, before letting them die of typhus?" "We had the sense that our lives did not matter," judged Simone Veil citing this episode. This seems to me also an extraordinary comment. A typhus epidemic was raging in the midst of widespread starvation, which the British were substantially unprepared for; all while the war was not yet concluded. Of course it is true that 14,000 died in the month after the liberation; and no doubt, as with any calamity, there were perhaps some actions which could have been done differently. But given the resources and knowledge available (and despite Simone Veil's comment -- see here and here for further context), it is hard to know what the British could have done more; and pretty bitter to see the response of soldiers doing their best in those horrific conditions as anything other than heroic.

(The Promise of course didn't touch the question of Bergen-Belsen displaced persons camp, and the viewer is not shown the situation of Jews in post-1945 Europe, for example post-war pogroms in Poland, which is an authorial choice; but given the budget of time available, and the power achieved by moving straight from Belsen to the rounding-up and detention of Jews on the beaches of Palestine, one that seems quite defensible).

Yet to read the presentation by La Croix of Wieviorka's comments, the bizarre implication being made seems to be that Belsen was just some kind of mild holding camp, and all the deaths there were the British fault. As for the claim that viewers would believe the British liberated a death camp rather than a concentration camp, this also is very odd. For a pure death camp, like Treblinka or Sobibor, there would have been no living emaciated bodies for the British to discover, because, bluntly, the victims would have been smoke. It precisely is a concentration camp where liberation might reveal such living cadavers. (Auschwitz was a hybrid of the two, that comprised both a work camp/concentration camp and a death camp). The story of each of the camps and ghettos was different. I, as a complete non-expert, certainly couldn't certify for sure whether or not the footage the IWM provided might have contained footage of Auschwitz. But did it misrepresent Belsen? Surely not.

To my mind, the suggestion in the article that The Promise manifestly misrepresented Belsen, if anything, just makes the journalist and his interviewee look like they don't know what they're talking about. Which is why I originally took perhaps the soft option route of not including it. But if it is to go into the article, even as a footnote, then at the very least we should also include that the footage was included on the basis that it was presented to the film-makers as footage of Belsen; and it would also be appropriate (if we're going to report an accusation like this) to email Wieviorka to clarify why she belived there was footage of Auschwitz in the material used (ideally with her identifying particular shots), and then to put those assertions to the IWM. Until such clarification is obtained, it seems to me it would be better to remove these assertions to the talk-page, and take them out of the article (even its footnotes). Jheald (talk) 11:07, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Not reading French well, (and being rather busy at the time), I had not picked up on those comments in Le Croix. They strike me as very strange.  I read a great deal about B-B.  Books, memoirs, diaries, letters.  Amongst the most moving was the testimony of a group of British doctors who arrived in B-B unprepared for what they wd find there.  They describe powerfully - and quite emotionally - their desperate attempts to save the horribly emaciated, sick and dying inmates they found.  How they tried without success to adapt the food used in the Bengal Famine to coax the B-B survivors back to life.  Len's remark about 500 a day dying and 500 a day continuing to die, "whatever we do", was based on their testimony.  The doomed efforts of these young men and women to save their charges, the compassion they showed, moved me greatly and lives with me still.  I think the Le Croix suggestion, if it is as reported above, is grossly unfair. Peter Kosminsky (talk) 09:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

JH/PK, I think it is sensible to remove this material from the article to the talk page. Although I think that Wieviorka is a highly respected historian, it is odd that she appears here so categorical about the mixing of footage, and I have no reason to doubt PK is telling the truth about the footage. Also slightly unclear from La Croix article whether it was an interview with her he is quoting or what. I would suggest this whole conversation here be copied to the talk page. BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:58, 23 May 2011 (UTC) P.S. am abandoning my sandbox for now, might get back to it some time when I am less busy.BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Jayjg (talk) 01:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Counterpunch Fair enough.Keith-264 (talk) 13:04, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Canvassing on your blog?
In searching for the Oliver Kamm article, I ran into your comments on removal of material from Atzmon article on your blog as the top return. This easily could be seen as canvassing for others to come and support your editing at the article. When I was so warned about a blog entry a few years back on some topic or other, I immediately removed the blog entry. CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:04, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you Carol. Sorry for slow reply; I have been away and off-line. I was not aware of the WP policy on canvassing. Having reviewed it, I am not sure whether this could be seen as canvassing. I certainly did not intend this as a message to other WP users, but rather as a repository of information deleted from Wikipedia. I will edit the post to be clear. BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:04, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Better to find out on a minor issue than a major one :-) CarolMooreDC (talk) 02:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

"It refers to individuals and groups on the left of the political spectrum"
Can you please participate in the the discussion at Talk:Anti-fascism? I've mentioned you and a questionable revision of yours there. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 13:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

 * I have added the books digitized copies were copyright possible and add ISBN numbers See: Multiculturalism.Moxy (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Moxy, that's really kind.BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Red Saunders (photographer) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Red Saunders (photographer) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Red Saunders (photographer) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

British Syrian Society
Thanks for your contributions to this article. However, I edited one of them, to remove the description of some of the organisation's speakers as 'war criminals'. There may well be allegations of war crimes against them, and those allegations may even be true; but without a conviction by a court, we can't describe them that way. See the BLP policy for more information on writing about living people. Robofish (talk) 19:34, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You're absolutely right. BobFromBrockley (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Kampfbund gegen den Faschismus
You are of course welcome to write an article on the Kampfbund gegen den Faschismus, but redirects to another Wikipedia project do not work. Hence I have requested speedy deletion (WP:G8). Kleuske (talk) 12:22, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I messed that up. Should have linked mentions in articles. Will try to create article stub later. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:07, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Disruptive editing
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing

Please, stop reverting sourced edits made by me or other editor. Use talk pages instead of reverting good faith edits. This warning comes after your disruptive bahaviour at the Afthermath section of the Syrian Desert campaign (May–July 2017) article. Mr.User200 (talk) 18:24, 18 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Please point to an example of disruptive editing on my behalf. You seem to routinely undo my edits, rarely with an explanation and never with discussion on the talk pages, and with one exception I do not revert these. I try and ask for explanations on talk pages, and you rarely if ever reply. In the example you point to, I flagged a section with literally one source with the one source template. You undid that with no explanation whatsoever. I asked for an explanation but instead you reverted me. Can I remind you of some Wikipedia policies: (1) "A single source is usually less than ideal, because a single source may be inaccurate or biased. Without other sources for corroboration, accuracy or neutrality may be suspect.  By finding multiple independent sources, the reliability of the encyclopedia is improved." When a section or page relies largely or entirely on a single source, that's a problem, hence my use of the  tag. To remove that tag, you either need to provide additional sources or use the talk pages to provide a really good justification. (2) When the single source is less than fully reliable (see WP:RS) that's a particular problem. Al-Masdar has been discussed numerous times on the RS noticeboard; the overwhelming consensus is that it is not a reliable source, and that it is absolutely not a reliable single source for controversial claims. I think it is especially wrong to use it as a source for opposition actions, as it is reliant for its own reporting on government military sources. Uses of this single source. Rather than removing claims sourced to this single unreliable source, I have used the  tag. To remove that tag, you either need to provide a better source or a really good justification why the source is good enough. (3) As per WP:OWN, no individual editor owns an article. You may have put an admirable amount of effort into the Timeline articles, but they are not your personal property: "Removing warnings like,  or  just because you think a page is yours is not right. No matter who you are, you must follow our rules and discuss problems with others." Please abide by this WP policy. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Disruptive editing 2
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing

Please, stop reverting sourced edits made by me or other editor. This second warning comes after your disruptive bahaviour at a section of the Timeline of the Syrian Civil War (May–August 2017) article.Mr.User200 (talk) 01:53, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no idea which edits you see as disruptive. Instead of putting these warnings on my page, could you please respond to my comments above, or my comments on the talk pages where we both edit? I know you are quite new to Wikipedia and have had lots of experiences already of disruptive edit warnings, but Wikipedia works by consensus, which is why I use edit summaries and talk pages to discuss edits, and not by threats. Please constructively engage in discussion. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:02, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Quneitra offensive (June 2017)
Its ok mate. One reason we are all here for is to help eachother. :) EkoGraf (talk) 12:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Battle of Aleppo page
The source https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-chemicalweapons-idUSKBN15S1W7 about the UN-OPCW report is investigating the entire Syrian Civil War, not the Battle of Aleppo.
 * Thanks . If you think that's relevant, maybe take discussion to Battle of Aleppo (2012–2016) talk page. The Reuters article is about an HRW report finding "Government helicopters dropped chlorine bombs “in residential areas in Aleppo on at least eight occasions between November 17 and December 13, 2016”. OPCW is mentioned briefly - explicitly saying they didn't comment on the HRW report. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:32, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, though, for the extra citations. I have left the VOA one (I think probably the most reliable) in the lede, and moved the others to the relevant section. I might work on that relevant section as it is a bit messy at the moment.BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:46, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

assad poison gas on its people
Can you explain how I misread the report? Chickenhero (talk) 17:22, 12 February 2018 (UTC)chickenhero
 * It is not a report; it is an opinion piece (it is clearly flagged as such on the Newsweek page). The opinion piece is by someone who has never previously written for any real media outlet, and Newsweek, in their current dysfunctionality, clearly didn't check it. If you look at the transcript of the Mattis briefing, widely available, Mattis actually didn't say anything that translates into the text you inserted into the WP article. See e.g. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/02/09/newsweek-engages-easily-debunkable-syria-chemical-weapon-trutherism-help-ian-wilkie/ BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Now explain how he miswrote the report. Spamming page after page with "Assad didn't gas it's people" is appallingly poor grammar. The headline is right there in the link; "Assad didn't gas his people". (a link he didn't even fill in correctly). He should read WP:CIR & WP:CIV, especially before he goes haranguing people, who have rightfully reverted him, on their talk pages, when his own talk page states; "'F off if you want to edit here". (pfft!) Good catch, Bob. - the WOLF  child  21:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Where have I ever lecture anyone in an aggressively manner. User:Thewolfchild — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chickenhero (talk • contribs) 21:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

BTW
You might find this useful. FYI Cheers - the WOLF  child  21:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

"Anti-Orthodoxy" theorists and claims of Judeo-Masonic worldwide conspiracies
Some of the sources I am reading regarding the views of those who alleged the existence of "Anti-Orthodoxy" connect those views to claims of Judeo-Masonic worldwide conspiracies, peppered with references to the Elders of Zion. I think this relevant but at the same time I'm not sure I want to give oxygen to this stuff. I was interested in hearing what you thought on this matter. Cheers, --Calthinus (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * This absolutely does not surprise me. I agree with you that it is relevant and that it is dangerous to give oxygen - I think I would err on the side of not giving oxygen here. I think this is one of the reasons it'd be much better to try to stop WP using the term and use a more neutral term like "Persecution of..." BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough-- thanks for your input. I've posted a move request with ref to the AfD.--Calthinus (talk) 02:56, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Also wanted to mention -- hope it's not weird -- I think your blog is awesome man and I will definitely end up using it as a resource some time for political discussions. Great work. --Calthinus (talk) 03:21, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow! Thanks. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:51, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Anti-Orthodoxy RM
You recently participated in an AfD discussion for the Anti-Orthodoxy article here. A request to move (retitle) that article is currently under discussion here if you'd care to participate. —  AjaxSmack 05:55, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Copyright problem on Carla Del Ponte and Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic
Content you added to the above articles appears to have been copied from https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-investigator/syria-investigator-del-ponte-signs-off-with-a-sting-idUSKCN1BT29Q. Copying text directly from a source is a copyright violation. I have paraphrased the material so it complies with our copyright policy. All content you add to Wikipedia must be written in your own words. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:28, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I thought I paraphrased sufficiently, but really appreciate you doing so. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And for fixing the ref formating I messed up! BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:33, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Flag of Syria
Can you revert an IP's edit and revert back the page to this https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Flag_of_Syria&oldid=849690045.Alhanuty (talk) 13:34, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

"Outing"
So "Bob" now we have a definition via ArbCom about "outing" will you be doing anything about your intentional linking of personal information, which hadn't been disclosed on here? Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP_issues_on_British_politics_articles/Proposed_decision --RebeccaSaid (talk) 07:44, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Dear Rebecca, If I outed you by quoting your tweet, I sincerely apologise. It was not my intention. I do not believe I disclosed personal information about you, as I do not have any, and I don't believe I sought out or identified a link (I'm not really sure what that means), but I realise I was wrong to effectively post something about your off-wiki activity by quoting what I believed to be your tweet about the ArbCom case, even though your userpage links to an off-wiki resource associated with the Twitter account I quoted, and that this could be interpreted as constituting "outing" in the sense defined in the proposed decision. I am sorry, and hope it has not caused you any upset. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:15, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

White helmets
I noticed that you recently amended the white helmets page to say that “422 people - 98 White Helmet volunteers and their family members - to Jordan“. I can’t find any mention to the number 98 in the source provided. It initially says “Hundreds of Syrian “White Helmet” rescue workers and their families” and later mentions 422 people. Another source says

“422 White Helmets volunteers were evacuated” - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hundreds-of-syrian-white-helmets-evacuated-to-jordan-through-israel-2018-07-22/

A google search using the number 98 does bring up a few sources which mention that, of the 422 rescued, 98 were white helmet volunteers. These sources seem to suggest that the remaining 324 were family members of the 98 white helmets.

If you want to keep the 98 figure in the article I think you will need to change the source provided. I also think the statement “98 White Helmet volunteers and their family members” has some ambiguity. Is the 98 referring to just the white helmets or to the “white helmets and their family members”. Can you make it clearer?

Burrobert 19:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * sorry for the slow reply. Been offline. Will look. BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:42, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Lotsof sources are clear: Telegraph “In the end, 98 White Helmet volunteers and 324 family members made it out, only half of those who signed up for evacuation.” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/24/white-helmets-rescuers-stuck-syria-fear-regime-reprisals-colleagues/ Guardian: “He said on Sunday that 422 people were rescued, including 98 White Helmets. As many as 800 others did not manage to escape or chose not to do so.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/22/israel-evacuates-800-white-helmets-in-face-of-syria-advance CBC: “In the raging war zone that is southwestern Syria, 98 White Helmets — members of a volunteer rescue organization also known as the Syrian Civil Defence — brought their spouses, children and a personal bag each. A total of 421 people massed at two collection points where they were to reach freedom in Jordan. But by the time they reached safety, they were 422. One woman went into labour on the journey. Her son, Nairouz, came into the world just short of the Syria-Israel border.” https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/how-white-helmets-escaped-syria-1.4758712

ARBPIA4 rocks
See WP:AN. I've reverted the account and the IP and added ECP. Before the new decision I couldn't have done that. Doug Weller talk 14:29, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Bosnia topic
Hey Bob, long time, hope all is well in these interesting times. Wanted to let you know has been working hard to bring Bosnian genocide denial up to GA. Since I'm aware you know some relevant cases and care about the matter , perhaps I thought you might take an interest in the contributing. If not, I understand. Cheers! --Calthinus (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Anti-Racist Action: June 2020 rewrite
Hi - I posted on Talk for Anti-Racist Action about undoing the June 2020 rewrite, which is based on a report on a far-Right blog, includes many improperly cited claims, and names several individuals as being part of Torch Antifa chapters without evidence. Would be great to have your thoughts on this proposed change. Thanks. GNO23 (talk) 23:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

I removed your "Adrain Zenz Synthesis" and replaced it with proper sources
Hi, you recently created a Synthesis that had asked for the link that asked exactly where Zenz's work was stated to be sourced to Istiqlal TV.

I know Zenz used numbers or accounting figures that actually came from exile media Istiqal internet TV, to back his entire estimate as well as also citing US-funded Radio Free Asia who claimed to use cold-calling to get their proof. But it's really easy to see the conflict of interest there and why western mainstream media shy away from reporting that actual fact. Hence I think that's why Japan's Newsweek omitted his name and mainstream western articles don't "usually" mention the exile group.

I honestly learned that fact from GrayZone and it doesn't take a genius to know that Japan Newsweek is using the very same document and figures that Adrian also presented to the world. But western media seem to not want to mention it. So really hard to get sources and Grayzoine is not allowed on Wikipedia despite nothing they wrote was non-factual.

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

But you make a semi-fair point that we need a solid source that EXPLICITLY show the connection so I went to do some extra digging and believe me, after a LONG WHILE - approx almost an hour of searching on google, finally found 2 sources that can back it up. And only afterward, I have removed your "Synthesis" and replaced it with the 2 sources that explicitly mention Istiqal and japan Newsweek and them publishing the exile org media report that Adrian used to back his estimates.

The reason I am writing to you is more a professional courtesy that I have removed your Synthesis and added the sources that you had wanted to see and to let you know that as you seem interested in the topic. You can feel free to review and check up on it if you want. - https://merics.org/en/analysis/where-did-one-million-figure-detentions-xinjiangs-camps-come + https://edtimes.in/for-incompetent-expert-adrian-zenz-benefits-are-more-important-than-truth/ MangoTareeface9 (talk) 23:56, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I appreciate the courtesy. I'll review it properly later, but it certainly looks like you have addressed the synthesis issue, and the MERICS source is reliable. On Grayzone, read this critique from (I believe) a reliable source, which builds on the MERICS piece: https://chinalawandpolicy.com/2020/01/05/when-journalism-is-not-journalism-the-grayzones-faulty-analysis-of-what-is-happening-in-xinjiang/ And this by a veteran journalist is probably not a reliable source and is polemical, but explains some of the wider problems with Grayzone: https://medium.com/muros-invisibles/enter-the-dragon-b8087398eaa0 BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Mark Steele
Thanks for your help editing Draft:Mark Steele (conspiracy theorist). I really appreciate the detail that you added. Do you feel that the article is good enough to be moved into the main-space yet? I appreciate that one must employ maximum caution when editing a biographical article about a controversial living person. --Salimfadhley (talk) 17:10, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I've never taken a page from draft to mainspace before and am not fully versed in BLP issues relating to legal cases, but to me the article feels robust enough: there are enough sources that cover him to suggest notability and everything in the article is reliably sourced. BobFromBrockley (talk) 07:49, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It is done. Thank you for your excellent contributions. --Salimfadhley (talk) 09:42, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have added a section as you suggested, regarding the shooting of Nicola Lumsden in 1993. Please feel free to improve the page as you see fit. --Salimfadhley (talk) 12:25, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Bob, did you see the recent changes to the related article, Draft:Kate_Shemirani. She has been the subject of articles in both The Times and Jewish Chronicle this week. I feel that this subject now passes our notability guidelines for biographical articles. --Salimfadhley (talk) 14:55, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

The Left
I noticed you because of your edits at the Shemirani article, then saw on your user page that you're more interested in politics than I am. Since it even mentioned left politics, I just wanted to point at The Left (North Macedonia), in case it's an article you would like to improve. I also posted a concern at its talk page recently (that may or may not be valid). Thanks, — Paleo Neonate  – 11:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks . Will look. BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:29, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Shemirani and Steele
Hey Bob, would you be interested in participating in a group that has a particular interest in observing the activities of Shemirani and Steele. --Salimfadhley (talk) 22:58, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Sure BobFromBrockley (talk) 07:18, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Potentially interesting article idea
Hi there. I appreciated you thoughtful response here, and I notice that you're interested in both Judaism and the left. You might find this organization worth thinking about in light of that. Jlevi (talk) 11:31, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Content from SWP
Hi Bob, just a quick one to inform you: I accidentally removed some of your content from this edit, I have however added it back, but it may be worth you giving it the once-over. Alssa1 (talk) 17:52, 12 November 2020 (UTC) Thanks. BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Grammar
You made improvements to the Anti Serb article, is the IP wromg about imposing present tense for a past event? Here is my revert [diff ]OyMosby (talk) 19:16, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

You're mentioned (briefly) in a new blog post
Hi BobFromBrockley, I thought that you might be interested to know that you are mentioned (briefly, on page 13, in the section "Israel lobby in the United Kingdom) in this new blog post that someone sent me. I'm not familiar with the blog's author or the WP articles and editors that he accuses of bias, so I've no idea how justifiable his claims are. Best wishes for the New Year! JezGrove (talk) 17:33, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know! BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:37, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

You're very welcome! JezGrove (talk) 17:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Spiked resource
Hi,

As you are looking into Spiked etc., I thought I would mention this resource, though I expect you are aware of it. [] [] Jontel (talk) 20:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks ! BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:04, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

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Antifa Dispute.
Hey to stop the back and forth I created a dispute resolution here. 3Kingdoms (talk) 19:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

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You may be interested to review this article
Dear Bob, kindly review Draft:Sacha_Stone. --Salimfadhley (talk) 18:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edits. I'm usually in Brockley most Fridays and every other weekend, so please let me know if you'd be happy for me to buy you a drink. --Salimfadhley (talk) 11:47, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm intending to get back to the draft and look for more sources. I think the Medium post counts as an expert blog but might be questioned, and discogs would benefit from RS verification, for example. But I think it's a really worthwhile project and great you have managed to produce a great draft . Yes, let's meet in Brockley as normality returns! BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:03, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

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Telegraph story on JC blagging
Hi, would you happen to have the exact text from the telegraph article that led to you adding the sentence beginning "However,..." at the end of the criticism section? As it is behind a paywall I have no access to it and I'm a little worried that there might be OR, it suggests a contradiction between the complainants and Cathcart and the IPSO response which would need to be stated in the article itself to be warranted (if we can accept the article as neutral).

Also, a notification on my talk page, and that of DeltaSnowQueen would have been correct etiquette when taking this case to the NPOV noticeboard.--Boynamedsue (talk) 07:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've just seen your edit summary re this, so I think I understand. If you look at the way IPSO handles complaints, for a complaint to be upheld there must be a breach or breaches of the IPSO code. The case of Audrey White consisted of one upheld complaint (paragraph 36) but 6 breaches of the editorial code (paragraphs 24-29). There is no contradiction between the Telegraph story and that of Cathcart. --Boynamedsue (talk) 10:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, you're absolutely right I should have pinged you when I took this to NPOV. Apologies for that. I did mention it on the article talk page, so thought that was sufficient, but was remiss not to inform you. I'll come back later on the Telegraph issue once I've seen if I can access the Telegraph article again. Might be sensible to do that on the article talk page if you don't mind me copying this over? BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:05, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Response here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Jewish_Chronicle#Telegraph_comment_on_libel The Telegraph doesn't say Cathcart was wrong about 28, but does say the letter was. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:31, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

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Hello!
Hello! I wanted to leave you a message and let you know I certainly wasn't trying to attack you in the AfD earlier. They way I typed it made it seem a little snarky but I didn't mean it that way. Just wanted to apologize and thank you for the argument you made for it, as it was helpful for me to understand it a little better. Other editors didn't seem to want to make arguments based on merit so it's refreshing to see. Thanks again! Spf121188 (talk) 18:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries at all, and I appreciate this message! BobFromBrockley (talk) 18:12, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

ARCA
I think you posted in the wrong section Shrike (talk) 11:05, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you. I have never posted on this sort of noticeboard before. I'll try and correct! BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm confused! Where should I have posted ? BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I am sorry It was my mistake I have thought you posted in wrong thread Shrike (talk) 11:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

CP removals
In the midst of the current discussion, with there being a very obvious consensus against deprecation currently, that strikes me as improper.  nableezy  - 18:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You have many times said that nobody says it is a generally reliable source and that we only use it when citing real experts. I've not deleted anything, just flagged the source, flagged lack of secondary sources, or replaced with better sourcing of the same text. Which of my edits do you think is specifically improper? BobFromBrockley (talk) 18:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I dont think any specific edit is at fault, it just appears to be a continuation of imposing a fait accompli on this source, and the improper bit is depending on an RFC that by nearly every reading is so flawed by the socking that it is invalid while the current RFC shows a lopsided consensus against the claim that CP should be deprecated. I dont have a problem replacing Fisk links in CP with Indy links where they exist, it just as a whole looks like a continuation to the, imo, nonsense that started this whole mess.  nableezy  - 18:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I was curious about what we’re still using CP for. I reviewed about ten uses and left about half of them as I saw they were probably due. About half of them looked easily improvable so I did some minor editing. I used the phrase “unreliable/deprecated” in case the consensus for deprecated isn’t sustained, but as I said nobody is calling it generally reliable. BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, at the conclusion of the RFC if it does not stand I'd assume you may expect to see many more than 10 of the 1500 or so removals that took place over the last weeks reversed.  nableezy  - 20:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok! I’m sure we’ll be discussing that then, along with other editors. BobFromBrockley (talk) 22:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

WP:RSN
Hi, did you really mean to remove so many comments from other editors in this edit? Cheers, --SVTCobra 14:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OMG no- no idea how that happened!! BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:42, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

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Happy Chinese New Year!
🐯🐯🐯 — Mhawk10 (talk) 02:09, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Mediabiasfactcheck as a source
Hi Bobfrombrockley. I noticed that you recently used mediabiasfactcheck.com as a source in Ruptly. Please note that the general consensus as expressed at WP:RSN and WP:RSP is that it does not meet the reliable sourcing criteria for such information. I've gone ahead and removed it. If you disagree, let's discuss it. You may want to check WP:RSP and WP:RSN to help determine if a source is reliable. Thanks.--Hipal (talk) 17:19, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you . I assumed it was noteworthy in a reception section, but I see that it is not used in that way in any other similar articles. No problem for removing and thank you for the courtesy of this note. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:39, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Asov symbol
Thank you for that change. I was just wondering if you have a reference for that? I have page-watchers who really want that symbol to prove that the group is Neo-Nazi because they think the Nazis invented the swaztika, so I expect a bunch of ad hominem over the change Elinruby (talk) 12:10, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No I don't actually. I should add a cn tag. But the term used previously had no source either and didn't seem to correspond to anything in the body. Feel free to revert or question. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:15, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

collapse
I've closed an open-ended template up above, sorry if you wanted it that way.  nableezy  - 23:25, 22 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks . Appreciate it! BobFromBrockley (talk) 07:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Mykola Kravchenko
Hello, Bob,

I started a talk page discussion on how this individual is categorized as there seems to be an edit war going on about it that has resulted in page protection. Please weigh in if you have an opinion about this categorization feud. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 18:56, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

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Thanks for your contributions
Just wanted you to feel seen. Also, re DW: the consensus is it’s the police in Belarus over at the Reliable Sources notice board. Elinruby (talk) 10:35, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Low quality sources on Azov "Battalion" article

 * , please read WP:AGF, WP:BLUDGEON and WP:CONSENSUS and have a look at my talk page comments. I have consistently argued that the preponderance of RSs do not support "is neo-Nazi" in wikivoice. Re the diff you link above, I simply pasted in the relevant quote, as it is paywalled. The relevant quote suggests to me that this is not a super-strong source. But Wikipedia proceeds by consensus. We need a new RfC to change the agreed wording in the lead. Concentrating your energy on collaboratively contributing to that discussion is the best way to strengthen the page. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)


 * This edit is not to "enhance" the source but to make transparent what it says so its inclusion can be debated with more knowledge. Re this edit, I moved The Nation out of the lead as a source for a fact and into the body as a source for an opinion and added an inline undue tag. It is an opinion piece, so it's inclusion is dependent on WP:DUEWEIGHT. This edit removes "neo-Nazi" which is not the description on the party's page and uses "far right" which is well sourced on its page; I don't see why that's controversial, especially if you think we don't need a hundred "neo-Nazis" in the lead. This edit does not restore "neo-Nazi" which was already there; it removes the redundant qualifier "extreme right" which was not ordained by the RfC. Once again, my "preferred version" of the article is one that does not say "is anti-Nazi" in wikivoice and which is based on the preponderance of RSs which, as you say, would give a more nuanced view. But to reach that, unilaterally going against consensus is not the best route. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:11, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Yanno... you are attacking one of two people with a shot at mediating this mess to an acceptable level. I am pretty sure the edits you are taking issue with were made in response to the consensus at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. No, they aren't enough, but they do move the article in the right direction.Elinruby (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2022 (UTC)


 * you're 100% right. After reviewing the Talk Page history, in my feverish attempts to rescue the article itself from absurdity, I actually confused BobFromBrockley's edits and intentions with another editor. I wholeheartedly apologize Bob, still new to this game, and I certainly have no intention of entering the article space of a controversial topic "in the news" again. Too much stress, and too little oversight from admins - in fact, zero from my period of embroilment - who have even the most basic regard for WP:Policy as it applies to WP:NPOV and WP:RS. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 15:09, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi
Hey, it's Bugs from twitter, find Wikipedia massively difficult to use but glad to see someone I know 😀 Fourdots2 (talk) 19:15, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, tbh I find this hard to use with all the HTML formatting etc but I see they have made it a bit more user friendly Fourdots2 (talk) 16:26, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

This edit
Was probably not the best way to go about this. Tagging sources like this is not productive to reaching consensus or being collegial to all sides of this dispute. Don't unilaterally declare that the authors don't have expertise. That's your opinion and you have not provided RSes or consensus to back up that opinion. Until you do, we shouldn't smear the source. Overall, tagging every source you dislike with "passing mention" is probably counter-productive to your goals, as it creates the appearance of WP:BLUDGEONing. Better to provide more reputable sources which support your argument. At the same time, I understand your concern about not having tons of passing mention sources. However, it should be relatively easy to find lots of sources which support "former", many more than are currently listed! That's the work that will better support your goals. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 17:36, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I feel “passing mention” is objective but expertise is, indeed, my opinion. Will revert. BobFromBrockley (talk) 18:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh I see you’ve already fixed. Thanks! I really appreciate your work on this. BobFromBrockley (talk) 18:40, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course :) And thank you for your help and input, it definitely brings it closer to NPOV!! — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 18:46, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I started a debate at the George Szamuely talkpage on WP:ELYES
Thanks. 175.156.145.10 (talk) 06:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

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Russian far-right
Just a notice that the same small group of editors are continuing disruptive tag-team editing related to Russian far-right nationalists on the articles Donetsk People's Republic and Russian separatist forces in Donbas, including deletion of references. I'm considering taking the issue to the Administrators noticeboard. ~Asarlaí 14:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

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Azov/Japan
Transparent POV editing on your part, as I said in my previous edit summary. You deleted ArabNews opinion because you didntlikeit as it took a contrary view. Then you claimed ArabNews was neither here nor there when I restored it. And now you have changed your mind and decided it is a good source after all because it might appear to support the Japan agency view but only provided that its opinion of the subject matter is not given, in other words you want to misrepresent the opinion of ArabNews. If the subject matter is notable, then you should have no trouble finding a different source supporting it. Selfstudier (talk) 08:41, 6 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I don’t understand what your issue with this is. The secondary source, which is reliable, was there as a secondary source to show the noteworthiness of the Japanese government decision. Somebody edited it to highlight/cherrypick the newspaper’s opinion of the regiment, which made our text POV. I edited this to leave in the use of the words “knee-jerk reaction”, which described the Japanese government decision, but ensuring that we accurately report that decision. What I thought was neither here nor there was the source’s opinion about the regiment. We know the Japanese government decision is noteworthy because there is a secondary source that shows this, but that secondary source’s opinion is not in itself noteworthy. There is no reason to find an alternative secondary source because we have a perfectly decent one. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Azov
Thanks for taking a look, I've got a book by Michael Colborne and it seems to me that would be quite useful on the 'Azov movement' side of things if that article gets made :) Fourdots2 (talk) 15:13, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Seems to me there's like 3 people who don't want it changed so they are not going to change it 🤔 Fourdots2 (talk) 16:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Anti-fascist organizations in Ukraine


A tag has been placed on Category:Anti-fascist organizations in Ukraine indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 23:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

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Admin noticeboard
Hello Bobfrombrockley, I saw questionable, but seemingly well sourced, informations in the article Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. When I looked it up, it was a misrepresentation of the source and it not looks like an accident. A look into the history shows you as the editor. I made a thread at the Admin noticeboard to discuss this case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. 2001:A62:472:9C01:593:6819:19F1:13FD (talk) 19:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Your sources on the talk page of Patrick Lancaster
A lot of great sources, but they will not be considered unless they are on the actual article page. A POV warrior, has been deleting this sources on the talk page. I strongly suggest you add these articles to the article page. 666hopedieslast (talk) 12:08, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

thank you
Thank you for the sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Alina_Lipp 666hopedieslast (talk) 23:10, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * ) BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Denisova
I just wanted to mention that to the extent of my understanding you are right about where it is SYNTH and were it would not be. It’s just not a concept on which I feel comfortable opining. And the massive wrongness of the BLP problems and misunderstanding of RS were simply easier for me to point out. Thanks for speaking up on that article though. Elinruby (talk) 04:08, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gonzalo_Lira_(3rd_nomination)
An article you helped edit, Articles_for_deletion/Gonzalo_Lira_(3rd_nomination)  is up for deletion. john (talk) 09:05, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Avoiding hagiography. The discussion is about the topic Robert Fisk. Thank you. Nutez (talk) 11:18, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Al Mayadeen
Please use correct citations and follow dmy dates format in your edits. Egeymi (talk) 17:29, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you please correct the date format and other parameters in the references you have inserted to the article.--Egeymi (talk) 17:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help . Which dates and parameters are wrong? I've been using citer.toolforge.org so it should be correct. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * you are using 2022-09-23 format, but there 23 September 2022 format is used.--Egeymi (talk) 17:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. I can correct that. Which other parameter are incorrect ? BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, there is not any other incorrect parameter. Maybe you can use the full title of the source. --Egeymi (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Instead of putting unnecessary wls as see also, you may consider to correct date formats in the references.--Egeymi (talk) 17:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. The See also links were not already in the article. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a wl for Al Manar in the article, but there is no for PressTV but I'm not sure it is necessary put it as a see also link.--Egeymi (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * You're right about Al Manar. I searched with a dash, as in its article name. BobFromBrockley (talk) 18:01, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Gonzalo Lira


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Gonzalo Lira requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

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hey Bob
Just to thank you for the effort you are making in addressing my arguments/edits. I was perhaps unfair in being cantankerous. Apart from my ratbag nature, I think it fair to say frustration can kick in when one's flat out like a thirsty lizard, with no water within tongue reach. I had run up a long list of all of your edits with replies, for over an hour, but pressed the wrong button, wiped it out, and so, hit the fart sack. I was delighted to see this morning that you undertook valuable time to address all points.

I've never had problems with people who disagree with me about fundamenetals, and I respect those of them that put in a solid effort, as you, a fine editor, do. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 21:36, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I ran out of time to respond to all your points. Will return when I can BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No hurry. If it's also sunny there, and Sunday, there are also other things to do in life. I myself must spend most of the day copyediting a friend's philosophical paper, since he must deliver it in a few days and I've been distracted for a month by other stuff. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 07:36, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

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Khazar hypothesis debate re-energized
Bob, because you're Ashkenazic and you've edited the "Ashkenazi-Khazar theories" section of the main Khazars entry today, you might wish to weigh in on the current "Request new section to discuss Brook 2022 and later studies that confirm or disconfirm it" (related to genetic evidence) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Khazar_hypothesis_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry#Request_new_section_to_discuss_Brook_2022_and_later_studies_that_confirm_or_disconfirm_it which relates to multiple currently undiscussed peer-reviewed sources that could be summarized in some manner on the page Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry, which has restricted-access for editing. Only three longtime Wikipedia editors have responded with their opinions thus far. 2600:1000:B116:9614:E9BD:D543:8D72:3A4F (talk) 14:20, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

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WSWS reference by Joanne Laurier suppressed Farha (film)
Hi Bob - You might be interested in the dispute that has developed over the legitimacy of a quotation by film director Darin J. Sallam, included in the Laurier article. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/20/pkmm-d20.html

The WSWs source has been deemed factually unreliable: "There is no consensus as to whether WSWS itself is reliable for facts" The identical quote was also provided in an article from The Hollywood Reporter. The WSWS ref was deleted and replaced with the HR source. My effort to maintain both sources was repeatedly reverted. The editor who performed most of the reverts wrote in the Talk section:

"I don't trust WSWS. I've found them to spread disinformation and promote Russian interests. But this is a ref for a quote from the filmmakers. Now, those of you very skeptical of WSWS might think they're making it up. But why the hell are we having this discussion when we can just delete the WSWS ref and leave the THR ref? Heavy Water (talk) 21:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will now be bold and delete the WSWS ref in favor of the THR ref. Heavy Water (talk) 21:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

As you can see, Bob, there was no effort to establish that WSWS "spreads disinformation" or "promotes Russian interests."

I have used WSWS sources in the past without any significant opposition. What gives? CerroFerro (talk) 17:16, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the "what kind of academic" edits and a question
Bob, thank you for your edits today regarding what kind of an academic various sources are.

I prefer to do the same, but have often found that there is resistance to attempts to include things like, "Political Scientist" or "Professor of X." As a result, I have tended to write "academic" so as not to invite the disagreement.

Are there any specific policies you have in mind that support your approach? I'd like to adopt it and would like to be able to respond to those who prefer the barebones "academic" JArthur1984 (talk) 15:39, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ) I don't know if there are specific policies on this (except maybe MOS:CREDENTIAL), but it seems obvious to me that precision is better than vagueness. A philosopher, a sociologist and a chemist might all be academics but wouldn't be equally noteworthy to cite in relation to a chemical weapon attack. (And of course some scholarly experts might not actually be academics: research scientists can work in non-academic labs, for instance.)
 * BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:10, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did not know of a specific policy either. But I like your summation that precision is necessarily better than vagueness. I suspect that editors who prefer "academic" think that listing a specialty is a form of "bolstering" or "hedging." But as far as I'm concerned that just means the facts speak for themselves...
 * Although this is a side note and not a disagreement about the substance of an edit, I would encourage you not to view Yaffe as fringe. Yaffe has at least one text published by Yale University Press. She's been a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics. She is a lecturer at University of Glasgow. Her work is excellently cited and well-reasoned.
 * But, as I said, I offer this as food for thought, not a disagreement with your edit.
 * Thanks for your time and perspective on my question. JArthur1984 (talk) 16:21, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Fringe probably too strong. She's active in the Revolutionary Communist Group (UK), one of the tiniest left micro-parties in the UK, and early in the pandemic was responsible for promoting mild vaccine disinformation as part of her PR campaign for the Cuban government. But she does get quite a lot of citations for her Che book. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:29, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Boris Malagurski film
Another pair of eyes would be appreciated at Srpska: The Struggle for Freedom if you have the stomach. IPs and others are trying to make/break the film's WP coverage. Pincrete (talk) 09:47, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Middle East Monitor
Can you point me to the consensus that MEM is WP:GUNREL? Selfstudier (talk) 12:20, 20 February 2023 (UTC)


 * If you actually meant that it was undue because opinion (should have been attributed), that's OK. Selfstudier (talk) 12:33, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I have the Wikipedia extension on that makes GUNREL cites red, and it flashed red. But it's not always accurate - I'll have a look. Apologies if I was hasty. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:03, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * So it looks like I might've been hasty. I'd forgotten this but I've tried to get a sense of a clear consensus before: in 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources/Archive_5#Middle_East_Monitor and 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources/Archive_7#Middle_East_Monitor  Definitely there isn't consensus it's reliable, but not sure how generally unreliable it is. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:53, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably a "2" so attribution if it might be controversial. Anyway, it was an opinion so taking it out was the right thing to do in that case. Selfstudier (talk) 17:41, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

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Sabotage of the Nord Stream pipleline
You made that redirect, but it contains a typo ("pipleline"). I made and used Sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline instead, and now the old page is orphaned. How did that fast-delete thing work again? --Hob Gadling (talk) 13:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I'll try to work it out! BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:40, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination of John Ross (blogger) for deletion
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Book about Carpenter's film
Best —  MY, OH, MY ! 09:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thx BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:45, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: John O. Beaty has been accepted
 John O. Beaty, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

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John O. Beaty
Hi How are you? I've posted your article in to mainspace. Great wee article, but it needs the bibliography section expanded so we can see what books he has written. This is a major American author of the 20th century.  scope_creep Talk  11:39, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Pan Iranist Party
The party does have elements of fascism, but some articles like the rss. Should the categories be restored? Firekong1 (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I have no specific objection (or expertise) but I think the party's article needs to establish this, with sources, in the body before it ought to be in the categories, per WP:CATV. BobFromBrockley (talk) 21:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course. I'll do my best to find sources describing them as such. Thank you for letting me know. Firekong1 (talk) 16:50, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Ivan Katchanovski
More socks on there than a millipede. I think I got rid of the worst of the cruft, but could you give the article a once over? Nangaf (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


 * sure BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:17, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

The book I plucked
out of your LibraryThing collection and subsequently ordered (US $7, free shipping) arrived yesterday. It is now atop my pile of "Next-book-to-read." Thanks for the suggestion. Carptrash (talk) 21:30, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy notification. This is not about sanctions, Bob
See here Nishidani (talk) 11:17, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Would you kindly review this new article?
Dear Bob, Draft:Geza Tarjanyi has recently been updated given that he has been in the news following his conviction. I'd love to get your opinion on this draft. Salimfadhley (talk) 12:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Southern Syria protests
Hey there. I noticed you are building an article about the Southern Syria protests in your sandbox. So I thought I should let you know, if you hadn't seen it, that there's already an article about it in the main space as 2023 Syrian protests. It may be worth merging some of your draft into there. -- Grnrchst (talk) 13:05, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Brilliant. Thanks for noticing! BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:06, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Ivan Katchanovski (again)
Hello. Former Ladywell resident here ;) Could I ask you to take a look at the Ivan Katchanovski article some time? I have introduced quite a lot of material recently and am trying to get a decent balance, but I am aware that I have a particular POV. Another set of eyes might help. Thanks! Nangaf (talk) 20:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Arguably
Hey Bob, There's nothing uncanny about the following. It just reflects something strangely recurrent in my life. A word is discussed, or I think over one when it pops up while daydreaming, and with 99% of certainty, I know I will come up with a written example of it within hours, a day or, at the most, two days. I have a long list of such 'coincidences' occurring since my adolescence, singling out rare words that I came across in dictionaries, and then finding them in an arbitrarily selected book for light reading, within a short time, on each occasion. When I wrote on 'arguably' I thought:'Let's see if the rule is confirmed.' Sure enough, while reading Martin Amis's novel-memoir this morning (and in a passage apropos Christopher Hitchens to boot) I came across the following:-

"The young Hobsbawm (certainly) and the young Hitchens (arguably), would have been reluctant to get involved with the young Hilly, a mere Labour activist'. Martin Amis, Inside Story, (2020) Vintage 2021 p.310."

I'd begun reading this desultorily a day before the 'arguably' argument arose, and the fact that Hitchens himself appears in context strengthens the oddness of the coincidence. I mention this just anecdotally, not to pursue the actual stylistic point. But Amis and Hitchens were both revered for their verbal punctiliousness and eschewing of any trite or careless usage. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 10:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey ---
 * Replying in this spirit and not to pursue the argument, I have exactly the same experience of vocabulary uncanniness in my life (and like you less now than when I was a teenager and I guess my vocabulary was growing more quickly). This is a specific version of the phenomenon we call "plate of shrimp" or "the cosmic lattice of coincidence" in my house.
 * I love love Hitchens' writing, Amis just a little less.
 * ---B BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I call it the 'gourd catfish' syndrome. To not waste time during an ad break in a film, I reached out and opened a 1,000 page Japanese character dictionary, and immediately lighted on 瓢箪鯰. Having never seen it I made a mental snapshot of the character combination: hyôtan namazu (gourd catfish), meaning a 'slippery customer'. The next day, for reading on the train, I randomly picked up a book on Japanese monkey ethology, one of a dozen I had collected on the topic. On the train, I, having the habit of addressing any new book by opening it at a random page first and reading the second paragraph (Sortes Vergilianae), sighted precisely that word (瓢箪鯰). If you haven't read Amis's book, I recommend it. A fine portrait of his soulmate Christopher. Dunno how the latter ever reconciled his lifelong Trotskyism with supporting George Bush's wars, one of life's mysteries. Cheers, Bob. Nishidani (talk) 18:55, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Third opinion in the ongoing content dispute at the Foreign Policy of Bashar al-Assad
Hello Bobfrombrockley can you provide your constructive views on an ongoing content dispute in the talk page of Foreign Policy of Bashar al-Assad. I have pinged you for third opinion here. Thanks! Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 5:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Editing on List of Islamist terrorist attacks
I appreciate your editing, but you don't need to add in information about "how do we know it was connected to Islam". If the sources don't explicitly and specifically draw a link to both islam and terrorism then it's WP:OR and needs to be removed. TarnishedPathtalk 06:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks. My plan was to check for better/more recent sourcing for the problematic entries and remove if I couldn’t find anything. That article is a mess, so thanks for bringing it to RSN. BobFromBrockley (talk) 07:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a lot of entries, I'm not going to say all, where the fighting could probably be characterised as disputes over land (Kashmir for example) and likely POV editing has occurred. Me personally, I'm not going to waste my time with anything that I identify as WP:OR. There's just too many entries to get through and WP:SPAs occasionally try and re-insert some of them. TarnishedPathtalk 09:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Rfc - Richard D. Gill and Kate Shemirani
There's an ongoing RfC at Talk:Richard D. Gill of relevance to a page you have edited on (Kate Shemirani). Structuralists (talk) 22:25, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I see this is now closed already. I’ll add page to my watchlist. BobFromBrockley (talk) 07:06, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Bad sources?
Hi there! I can see via edit history that you had tagged List of Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign primary endorsements with unreliable sources. If possible, could you please identify some examples that may violate WP:ENDORSE so I can sift through the list and remove those not inline with the aforementioned guideline? many thanks, —Mel</b><b style="color:#F20">bourne</b><b style="color:#F73">Star</b> ☆ <sup style="color:#407">talk 07:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I’m not sure and don’t recall doing that, but on a glance, I suspect the following aren’t good enough to establish noteworthiness and reliability: The Patriot Post. The Association of Mature Citizens, RawStory, The Andrew Klavan Show, Fox (for US politics), McHenry County Blog, TASS (for thing other than Ru gov positions), Phyllis Schlafly Eagles, The Poke, The National Pulse, Real America’s Voice, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Political Cesspool BobFromBrockley (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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Racism in the UK
Funnily enough, I was thinking of leaving you a message about this page on the bus home tonight. It needs a rewrite and wholesale restructuring, but it's a massive job, and I'm not sure about where to start. Left a message to that effect on the talkpage. Maybe we could have a go at sorting it? If there are other users who might be interested, the more the merrier.

All the best Boynamedsue (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Nice to know you thought of me. I can't even remember why I alighted on it tonight, so maybe it was in the stars. I don't really know where to start but yes let's do it. BobFromBrockley (talk) 22:22, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Great! I've left a message on there.Boynamedsue (talk) 07:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Hey, you forgot to sign your comment at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Carrie_Keller-Lynn
Here is the diff. FortunateSons (talk) 09:15, 2 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Closed now but signed anyway BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You’re welcome! Do you mind if I copy the Jewish userbox on your talk page for mine? FortunateSons (talk) 17:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Go right ahead. I can’t remember who I copied it from way back! BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:50, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you!
 * By the way, I just wanted to say that perceived you as a voice of reason on the topic of I/P despite our occasionally different views, and wanted to say that I greatly appreciate your contributions. :) FortunateSons (talk) 18:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Rescuing Revolutionary Communist Party (UK, 1944)
Unfortunately, much of Revolutionary Communist Party (UK, 1944) has been deleted for being unsourced. Would you be able to help find sources for the material and restore it with citations (and/or ask other editors familiar with the topic to do so)? Wellington Bay (talk) 13:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for alerting me. Will look. BobFromBrockley (talk) 22:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

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Edelman Family Foundation
Hello @Bobfrombrockley

I am reaching out to you because of your previous participation in one of the discussions regarding the reliability and neutrality of HuffPost/Pink News/ProPublica as sources used on Wikipedia.

Currently, there is an ongoing issue with the Edelman Family Foundation section in the Joseph Edelman Wikipedia article. The section appears to be biased and lacks a balanced representation of the foundation's activities, as it primarily focuses on a single controversial donation while neglecting to mention the organization's numerous other significant contributions to various causes.

I would like to invite you to participate in the discussion on the BLP Noticeboard to address the concerns surrounding the section's neutrality and explore ways to improve its content. Llama Tierna (talk) 18:06, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Venezuelan politics opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 20, 2024, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">Jazz</i> talk to me &#124; my contributions 23:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * This is the first barnstar I have given, so I hope the formatting worked. FortunateSons (talk) 12:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

My revert at War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war
@Bobfrombrockley You are correct in principle, however this article is under 1RR, so step-by-step reverts would take a week at least. Because of this, I had to do it from the other end. Cheers, — kashmīrī  <sup style="color:#80f;font-family:'Candara';">TALK  21:46, 18 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks . I've deleted my comment. I see you already dealt with the things that I was concerned about. BobFromBrockley (talk) 21:50, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * No worries! — kashmīrī  <sup style="color:#80f;font-family:'Candara';">TALK  21:54, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

You're a smart feller
Your civility impresses me. Thanks for being so measured!

I see you're a Nina fan. What are your favorite recordings of hers? Zanahary (talk) 00:22, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Proposed decision in the Venezuelan politics case posted
The proposed decision in the open Venezuelan politics arbitration case has been posted. Comments on the proposed decision may be brought to the attention of the committee at the talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">Jazz</i> talk to me &#124; my contributions 17:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Opinion opinions
Help me muddle through this. To me, the Op-ed in the Telegraph only reveals that the Telegraph is amenable to the views of the writer as an individual. It reflects more on the Telegraph than anything else. Likewise, when the JC published Islamophobia apologetics, was criticised, and refused to apologise, that reflected poorly on it. When that same editor who refused to apologise for the first piece then left the publication and wrote his own piece of Islamophobia apologetics, which the publication then duly printed, having apparently learnt nothing the first time around, that again reflected poorly on it. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Of course it reflects poorly on it (as it reflects poorly on the Telegraph for amplifying JWS’s odious views) But it doesn’t reflect on its reliability, which is the matter at hand. BobFromBrockley (talk) 02:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Generalplan Ost
Hello Bob. Since you are interested in ww2-related stuff and the history of 20th century European fascist movements, I thought you could be interested in expanding contents in the Generalplan Ost page. In general, Axis coalition's systematic crimes and extermination campaigns against the natives in Eastern Europe, Balkans, North Africa, etc. are heavily ignored in wikipedia currently. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 20:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I never responded to this. Interesting topic! I hope to get to it... BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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 * Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East
 * added links pointing to Gareth Thomas, Jeff Smith, Afzal Khan, Imran Hussain and Kim Johnson

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Category:British women Marxists has been nominated for merging
Category:British women Marxists has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
I see you edited the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity before. FYI, I added this to the VIP webpage:

As of March 2024, the current members include, William Binney, Dick Black, Marshall Carter-Tripp, Bogdan Dzakovic, Graham E. Fuller, Philip Giraldi, Matthew Hoh, James George Jatras, Larry C. Johnson, John Kiriakou, Karen Kwiatkowski, Douglas Macgregor, Ray McGovern, Elizabeth Murray, Todd E. Pierce, Pedro Israel Orta,  Scott Ritter, Coleen Rowley, Lawrence Wilkerson, Sarah G. Wilton, J. Kirk Wiebe, Robert Wing, and  Ann Wright.

Marshall Carter-Tripp
Marshall Carter-Tripp is the author of the French book, La Démocratie Américaine (September 1, 1988), Democracy in America with Max J. Skidmore. He is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.


 * Democracy in America

Explains that the United States is a superpower that "fascinates with its success and irritates with its arrogance, this immense country is nevertheless an extraordinary political invention, a true laboratory of democracy". The book describes the functioning of the America, which is in perpetual recreation.

Matthew Hoh
Matthew Hoh is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. In 2009, Hoh resigned in protest from his post in Afghanistan.

Hoh has written in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, CounterPunch, CNN, Defense News, The Guardian, The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, the Raleigh News & Observer, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post. Hoh has been a guest on on BBC, CBS, CNN, CSPAN, Fox, NBC, MSNBC, NPR, Pacifica Radio and PBS.
 * Media

Since 2010, he is a Senior Fellow with the Center for International Policy. Hoh is also a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Public Accuracy. He is also an advisory board member for the Committee to Defend Julian Assange and Civil Liberties, Expose Facts, North Carolina Committee to Investigate Torture, The Resistance Center for Peace and Justice, Veterans For Peace, and World Beyond War.
 * Membership and awards

In 2010, Hoh was named the Ridenhour Prize Recipient for Truth Telling. In 2021, he was awarded as a Defender of Liberty by the Committee for the Republic.
 * Awards

Hoh resides in North Carolina.
 * Personal life

Elizabeth Murray
Elizabeth Murray is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and Sam Adams Associate for Integrity in Intelligence. Murray worked as a C.I.A. analyst and as a Deputy National Intelligence Officer in the National Intelligence Council.

Todd E. Pierce
Todd E. Pierce is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. He was on defense team representing three clients held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Pierce was a Major, US Army Judge Advocate, a member of the Military Commission Defense Counsel in the United States Army.
 * Military career

Pierce attended the Mitchell Hamline School of Law and the St. Cloud State University.
 * Education and personal life

Pierce resides in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Pedro Israel Orta
Pedro Israel Orta is an ordained minister, former CIA agent and whistleblower, and member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. He is the author of The Broken Whistle: A Deep State Run Amok. He is in an upcoming movie, Deep State Gangsters. The movie includes John Kiriakou, Garret O'Boyle, Nate Cain, J. Michael Waller, and Lee Smith. He was interviewed by Tucker Carlson.

From 2015 to 2017 he was an Inspector for the Office of the Inspector General for the C.I.A..
 * Government career

Otra was the son of Cuban immigrants who fled Communist Cuba. He graduated from Florida International University and George Washington University. He resides in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
 * Personal life

Sarah G. Wilton
Sarah G. Wilton is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

Robert Wing
Robert Wing is a member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

Ironcurtain2 (talk) 03:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

discussion

 * Bob, keep in mind that nearly every person mentioned above, and VIPS, is an unreliable source here. Don't trust them or use them. Be very cautious of anyone who promotes them. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 17:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I see you say "nearly" every person. Is there a person in this list that you do think is "reliable"? Have each one of these people said things that are verifiable lies, or is your position that any critic of US intelligence agencies is prima facie untrustworthy? Philomathes2357 (talk) 19:31, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * What do you think they share in common? Skepticism of the Russiagate affair? Skepticism of the wide and sweeping collusion between the Trump campaign and Russians?
 * They make the serious, but not accidental, "mistake" of "misinterpreting" (made by useful idiots of Putin) the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, which did not find evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt of actual "conspiracy", i.e. "coordination", between the two parties, even though Mueller found many types of collusion, cooperation, aiding and abetting, lying about, and covering up for the Russians by lying about the interference and trying to shift blame to Ukraine. Trump even promised to pardon Assange if he would lie by denying the Russians were involved in the hack and leak operation. He did that and blamed Seth Rich. They tried to pressure Ukraine into investigating and providing evidence of corruption by Joe Biden, resulting in Trump's first impeachment. Both Derkach and Parnas, who were allies of Giuliani, have spilled the beans that it was all a Russian intelligence operation. Busted!
 * They make the mistake of ignoring the actual misdeed, because of lack of absolute proof there was a conspiracy to commit the misdeed. The misdeed happened, so the unproven conspiracy becomes a red herring they focus on, and MAGA are fooled by that. (Notice how convenient their trick of equating/conflating conspiracy with collusion works, when the words are not synonyms in Mueller's dictionary.) They say Mueller found no collusion, but Mueller specifically explained he was investigating criminal conspiracy, not collusion. He found the misdeed, which he was not allowed to indict or prosecute, but could not prove the conspiracy to commit the misdeed, which, even if he could prove it, was not allowed to indict it, so he didn't really try hard to do it.
 * So you tell me, since they are so deeply involved in spreading Russian propaganda about the Russiagate affair, how far can we trust them? That attitude infects so much of what they do. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 02:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * They trust Russian intelligence more than all the Western intelligence agencies, imperfect as they all are. U.S. intelligence is worthy of criticism in some regards, but the Russians are much worse. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 02:35, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * useful idiots of Joe Biden?
 * Bobfrombrockley ask if you feel that any of them are reliable.... Is the answer no?
 * For the record, I know that the late Yevgeny Prigozhin Internet Research Agency was involved in the election of 2016. It is obvious.
 * Foreign governments interfere in elections all the time. Statistically, the United States has done it much, much more than Russia or the USSR, most notably with Yeltsin in 1996.    Does it make the Russian interference justified?  I will let you decide....
 * I have stated something outside of VIPS talking points, can you acknowledge anything outside of the Joe Biden administration talking points sir ma'am? Ironcurtain2 (talk) 12:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

, I am slightly confused as to why you posted all this info on my talk page. /, I don't think we need to discuss if these individuals are or aren't reliable. For inclusion on the VIPS page or for creating their own articles (a discussion of which this page is definitely not the best venue) would be (a) whether mention of them is due in the VIPS article, (b) whether they are notable in their own right, and (c) whether we have reliable sources to verify this. I suggest this can be taken up on the VIPS article talk page if necessary. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, you can move it there. :) Thanks for your time! Ironcurtain2 (talk) 12:52, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. Feel free to move it there. I don't think this impacts article creation or mention. As long as RS are used, we just follow the normal rules. There may be problems in some cases as some of these people are so fringe that few, if any, RS mention them in any depth. ABOUTSELF may apply. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 15:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Lots of conversation found here: User_talk:Philomathes2357 have a wonderful day! Ironcurtain2 (talk) 08:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)