User talk:Drmies/Archive 146

Edward Hayter
hello, can I ask why the TV guide and rotten tomatoes sources were removed? They're said to be reliable sources. Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC) Again, please stick with asterisks; I can't correct what you did there since it's a messed up list. No, NOT A SINGLE ONE of those are reliable secondary sources. I think you really need to start learning what "secondary" means. The Broadwayworld article is, I suppose, acceptable for the basic fact of the TV show, but it shouldn't be cited for anything else: no publication should be writing things like "Josh Williams has been taking the UK theatre by storm". Is that enough? Put the little role in there, as a bare fact, and don't try to play it up. And PLEASE read Reliable sources before you write up another draft. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 03:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Who says that? Rotten Tomatoes' biographies of actors, why would that be reliable? Ask yourself who wrote that content. Same with the TV Guide stuff: it actually says "A Fandom Company", so that's probably where that comes from. I think the only acceptable sources are in the reviews, including the two that I just edited. If you cleaned up the writing, threw out the poor and unacceptable references, and focused on the good ones, this would be accepted in no time. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#perennial_sources you can see theyre reliable here Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:33, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't just see if the name is there: read the whole thing: "There is consensus that Rotten Tomatoes should not be used for biographical information, as it is user-generated content along with a lack of oversight." And for TV Guide: "TV Guide is considered generally reliable for television-related topics. Some editors consider TV Guide a primary source for air dates." What you linked to was not that. Drmies (talk) 02:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I added tvgude for the names of the work he has done not for the dates Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you explain what you mean that i didnt linked that for tv guide? Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:50, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * OK--please stick with asterisks. There's a picture of "Will" on his "bio" (what an awful site that is), but he's not even mentioned on the page dedicated that show. So it actually seems like someone added that to "his" page (twice?). If sites are so unclear and messy, don't use them. What I did see, while browsing around, was not a single reliable mention for his role in Will (TV series), and our article doesn't list him as "recurring". So if there is no sourcing in reliable secondary sources (not primary ones or user-submitted sites), then maybe it just shouldn't be mentioned at all. We're not publishing resumes here: we're writing encyclopedic content that's supposed to be verified by reliable sources. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * which of these sources can i use for his role in Will? https://www.broadwayworld.com/uk-regional/article/Bristol-Old-Vic-And-Lyceum-Edinburgh-Announce-Casts-For-Double-Co-Productions-TWELFTH-NIGHT-and-TOUCHING-THE-VOID-20180724 Veganpurplefox (talk) 03:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * https://bristololdvic.org.uk/profile/edward-hayter
 * https://en.kinorium.com/name/3573719/
 * https://www.cine.com/actores/edward-hayter
 * https://www.filmweb.pl/person/Edward+Hayter-2316457/filmography
 * https://www.lavanguardia.com/peliculas-series/series/will-71367/actores Veganpurplefox (talk) 03:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.chaptermgmt.co.uk/205-edward-hayter/ Veganpurplefox (talk) 03:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Why would it be accepted if he still doesnt have significant coverage in articles? Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:35, 19 September 2023 (UTC) But thank you for helping writting the words in a better way! Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, you're welcome. My point is that there are at least a few reliable sources in there, and there might be more reviews etc. out on the internet, but the draft, as it is written, is just in a very poor state--it doesn't suggest that it is on a notable topic, and the reliable sources that I looked at weren't represented well. Look for the sources, and write it better. How do you write it better? Look at good examples, for instance in the list at WP:GA. Drmies (talk) 02:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Can i use a primary source (interview) since i cant use rotten tomatoes for the bio then? Veganpurplefox (talk) 02:57, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No. See above. Drmies (talk) 02:59, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I went to look up some articles such as Jamie Campbell Bower, Taylor Lautner, Dakota Fanning... and I see,none of them had tv guide or rotten tomatoes cited except for one and everything else is on reviews websites. But I kept the infos for Hayter because once he gets on better articles I could have changed the bad sources to the reliable ones. I don't plan on submitting the draft as I already talked to the reviewers who reviewed it Veganpurplefox (talk) 11:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Ive got Victoria Emslie approved as well as couple more in other languages, i know what reliable sources are. Just some i never saw. But ill use the broadway for Will as its acceptable you said. Ive learned a lot here for the past year, i tried to use as much as BBC, the guardian, the times, the Independent, Hollywood Reporter, collider... as much as there is anything written there but magazines and news those are the triky sources as its hard to know if reliable or not Veganpurplefox (talk) 03:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * What are asterisks? Veganpurplefox (talk) 03:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I wrote to rotten tomatoes about who writes the bio and this is what they answered:
 * we typically receive an email from the actor or publicist -- and they provide the Bio information to us. we then forward that information to our Bio Editor for review  -- and if it meets standards we will add it -- Veganpurplefox (talk) 13:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * So it's the opposite of independent, secondary, reliable. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * So its a primary source then? Veganpurplefox (talk) 14:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * At best, yes. Drmies (talk) 14:17, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again, someone removed all reliable sources on the draft as well of almost everything and the draft has been resubmitted but i dont believe it will be approved. Can you unsummit it as well as put everything back please, ill remove the content that doesnt have the reliable sources Veganpurplefox (talk) 12:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Veganpurplefox, you are likely talking about this edit. You should thank User:Spinster300 for all their hard work: they turned your draft, which has been declined time after time and would have been declined again, into something that stood a good chance of being accepted. Then you came back and undid their work, and then restored some of it, etc. Whatever is good about that draft is their work, and what you should probably do is revert to their edit, and send them flowers. One thing though, Spinster: Rotten Tomatoes and TV Guide are not acceptable BLP sources: it's user-submitted and/or un-edited stuff. Drmies (talk) 16:26, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Its fine i asked in the talk page of Carbril with the user. They still havent answered for the career section if i should let it be or if i should remove it and then add it back once its been approved. With their talk i understand it more. And for tv guide and rotten tomatoes it has been discussed in the cabril talk page and its fine Veganpurplefox (talk) 16:30, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That(talking in the user talk page) is why i recovered what has been changed by the user Veganpurplefox (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I wish you took greater care in writing up these messages, and in getting things right--not just spelling, grammar, and the very meaning of words, but also factual stuff about Wikipedia and the guidelines. No, Rotten Tomatoes are TV Guide are not fine, and Rotten Tomatoes is not a primary source: it's user-submitted, as was determined previous. That's not even primary, and the discussion on 's talk page does not say they are OK to use, but frankly, I am not surprised to see that you seem to have completely forgotten what we discussed here on this very page. Now, if you don't mind, I think I've said the same thing a half a dozen times now, and you keep talking to me as if you didn't hear a thing. Good luck with it: I've told you what I think you need to do. Drmies (talk) 16:40, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe because everyone says everything differently and its gets confusing. Im tired that no one can agrees on the sources, some consider tv guide and rotten tomatoes as primary sources, other dont, others dont consider reliable others consider them reliable. Can it be a rule where everyone just agrees with the sources. It would make everyone less confusing. And i shouldnt have to say that im autistic and have difficulties with understanding text comprehension. Im trying and do my best and thats exactly why im unemployed cause no one accept autistics as what we are. Its hard enough to actually live in a society that dont understand our perceptions and i cant understand neurotypicals perceptions either. And i turn to my idols, movies and writing articles cause thats the only thing that keeps me happy. Veganpurplefox (talk) 17:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Can it be a rule where everyone just agrees with the sources"? I don't understand what that means, and we actually all usually agree on what sources can and cannot be used. It is not true that "no one can agrees on the sources". You pointed at Reliable sources/Perennial sources: that's agreement. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Drmies, your patience exceeds most known metrics. Cabrils (talk) 22:54, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Drmies, thank you for letting me know that; I have relied on TV Guide and Rotten Tomatoes in real life, and they seemed to get most of it right, and so I did not second guess using them. I have seen them used elsewhere to verify small factoids here and there, but of course, we cannot rely on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I mainly used those two sources to critically verify the subject's alma maters and filmography. In the initial draft, there was no source given for the subject's education and the Rotten Tomatoes page in particular was the only one that verified those claims. If there are no other available reliable sources that state that, those claims will need to be removed of course. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 16:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
 * Dear Veganpurplefox, with your permission, I would like to restore the draft to my version and make the required improvements as discussed here. Only then, will the draft possibly get accepted under WP:ANYBIO. Once there are more reliable sources over time as his career grows, the article can be considerably expanded. Awaiting your thoughts, thank you. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 17:14, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
 * Of course do it Veganpurplefox (talk) 17:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Drmies, the draft has been restored and the discussed changes have been implemented. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 18:11, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
 * Looks good to me,, and thanks for your work and your patience. As User:Cabrils said, it may be too early, but at least it's a clean-looking draft now. Drmies (talk) 20:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, dear Drmies. I agree that it may be too soon, but at least the draft satisfied WP:Anybio for now. I shall now wait for Cabrils's review. Please let me a note on my talk page if there any other biographical AfC drafts you would like me to take a look at. Always happy to help! Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 20:56, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
 * Happy to report Ed Hayter page was accepted by Tagishsimon  on 24 September. Thanks again Drmies for your attention. Cabrils (talk) 22:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I saw that yesterday, thank you for the help of everyone involved. I got inspired of what was written to create this draft: Draft:Mattias Inwood. I'll not add too much as im not sure of his notability but contains some of the same references that Hayter appeared. With reliable sources from deadlines and Metacritic Veganpurplefox (talk) 23:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I do believe now that im sure Mattias could be notable after doing much reasearch. I dont think it can have a big article like jamie campbell bower has tho Veganpurplefox (talk) 00:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Theres an issue with Will (TV series) and Edward Hayter ,his name was deleted from the cast even if the article exist. And the user is starting deleting the article Veganpurplefox (talk) 22:38, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done...
Kudos for this close. Now I know why you get the big bucks. Thank you. Geoff &#124; Who, me? 22:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Geoff, you're welcome--but this one was easy, really. I got a few things going on right now that actually require judgment, so you know what I'm doing: emailing fellow Wikipedians! Drmies (talk) 00:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

IP block exemption request
Hi Drmies... I sent in a renewal request for an existing IP block exemption request 6 days ago... I was wondering if you might be willing to take a look at it as the lack of the exemption is curtailing my ability to edit since I'm frequently on a VPN.

If you're busy or this isn't an appropriate request, my apologies in advance and feel free to ignore.

My subject line to checkuser-en-wp@wikipedia.org was "request renewal of IP block exemption for en.wikipedia.org" from my username @ gmail.

Thank you for your consideration and all your hard work for the project! —Joeyconnick (talk) 02:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I looked but can't find such a message. Give me a few. Drmies (talk) 12:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * OK--I think I'm going to ping, who's assisted you before: Risker, would you mind having a look? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 12:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, Drmies., your IPBE has been extended. Oh, and I found the VRT ticket and will close it as well.  Risker (talk) 14:57, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks ! I'm wondering why I didn't find it in the CU-emails, but maybe that's me. Drmies (talk) 16:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you both... really appreciate it! —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:58, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Clarification on possible block requested
Greetings. Wikipractitioner recently posted here a serious accusation about a "conspiracy" working against both their work in Wikipedia as well as some undefined category of "works". My request that they withdraw this accusation was ignored. Checking out their page, I see  what looks like a penalty imposed on Wikipractitioner. Has Wikipractitioner been blocked or did I misunderstand everything? -The Gnome (talk) 12:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Their conspiracy theory is ludicrous, and so is their response to you: both are so poorly written and confuse so many things, it's almost Trumpian. Yes, they were blocked, the block was lifted, and then they were blocked again; read my comment under the last block notice on their talk page. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 12:45, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2023
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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:41, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Draft
Hi, I should explain... You're quite right, this is indeed a draft. But it's a dupe of Draft:JSS International School, and here the creator asked for the draft to be deleted. So I figured they also didn't want their sandbox draft. My bad; jumped the gun. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * DoubleGrazing, I actually saw that conversation and figured you were trying to help. That was not the right template to use but I haven't spent more time thinking about what to do with it. Thanks for the note, Drmies (talk) 17:24, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, and as I said my bad anyway. Cheers, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:43, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Academic dishonesty? Assistance needed
Hello, Drmies. I believe that I have discovered an instance of academic dishonesty by a student of a class supervised by WikiEd. The article is Wi-jún-jon, the student editor is User:Arabdhabiswas, and the Native American History class was held in Spring semester 2023 at UC Irvine. I learned about this due to a Teahouse discussion. See WP:Teahouse. In brief, the subject was a Native American Assiniboine chief who traveled a very long distance to visit Washington, DC in 1831 and 1832, and whose portraits were painted by George Catlin. As far as I can see, this student editor created a fictional subsequent life story, including the extraordinary claim that this man fought at the Battle of the Little Bighorn in 1876, when he would have been about 82 years old. I learned that he was actually murdered in about 1835. So, my question to you is what should be done about this student? Should the instructor be notified? If my interpretation of the facts is correct, should this student's university take some disciplinary action? Cullen328 (talk) 03:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just a small note - sometimes in these high-trust/high-context cultures, stories are passed down verbally between generations. It's possible the student based some of his facts on verbal stories rather than written accounts and scholarly research.  And we know how the telephone game comes into play.  I've had that problem before when writing Hawaiian articles.  It may not be intentional on the students part to deceive.--v/r - TP 04:29, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * , that explanation may be exculpatory with regards to some anonymous new editor adding content out of the blue, with no knowledge of our policies and procedures. This person was editing in connection with a course at a campus of the University of California, a prestigious and highly selective institution, and overseen by the Wiki Education Foundation. And the editor added references, which do not seem to verify that content, and which looks deceptive to me. And they made a exceptional claim about a very famous battle with about 500 deaths that was the worst defeat of the United States Army during their war with Native American forces. This battle has been studied intensively by military historians for nearly 150 years, and I am unable to find a scrap of evidence of participation by an 82 year old Assiniboine chief. It comes off like an anecdote recycled from some Hollywood film like Little Big Man (film). Cullen328 (talk) 05:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * , please don't use the word exculpatory in polite society. Thank you.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * , just for you, I will try to avoid using that word again. Cullen328 (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Cullen, last thing we want is for to be upset. Drmies (talk) 19:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Fascinating. Lets start with the first ref added for the text "As a young man, Wi-jún-jon became a warrior and participated in a number of battles and skirmishes against the U.S. Army as part of the broader resistance to American encroachment on Lakota land and resources" and which he calls "Wi-jún-jon, a Sioux Chief" while the source is actually titled "Wi-Jun-Jon - The Pigeon's Egg Head Going to Washington : Returning to his home " He's got the title wrong and it clearly doesn't mention Sioux (how can this editor be so incompetent to say Sioux, let alone Lakota which he also uses this source for. In no way does this source back any of the text.
 * His source "From Pantheon to Indian Gallery:Art and Sovereignty on the Early Nineteenth-Century Cultural Frontier" is used to back battles in 1876 and 1876 (not early 19th c) says nothing about battles. I can't check the other sources but nothing excuses this misrepresentation of sources or the incompetence about tribal names. I think this needs following up. Doug Weller  talk 07:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh,, you're right: the misrepresentation of that source is really bad. Nothing that is claimed to come from that article is actually in there. Drmies (talk) 12:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Aside from the question of whether the University ought to take some sort of action with regards to the student (which isn't really within our bailiwick as site administrators), I think that we need to be asking some questions of the instructor and whoever was overseeing that course from WikiEd. Is nobody involved checking what the students are writing against the sources they are using? The addition of fictional historical information to our articles, whether it was generated by an AI or a human, really ought not to be too difficult for an educator to discover and undo themselves, rather than leaving it to volunteers to find months after the fact.
 * I think I've reached the point now where I believe WikiEd projects are a net negative for this project - I cannot remember an instance where I saw either (a) a student editor making changes that were a benefit to the article they were working on, or (b) sticking around long enough to become capable of doing so. They're usually either sourced inappropriately, written inappropriately or, as in this case, factually dubious. I'm sure there are examples of good student editing - there must be, surely - but I've never chanced across one on my watchlist. Girth Summit  (blether)  12:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You express my feelings exactly.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:46, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I concur. It s not the student editor who needs correction, it is the instructor who needs our help to understand what their real world responsibilities are.
 * @Girth Summit I understand your jaded feeling. There must be a handful of editors of good quality who have come though this route? I say this as an act of faith. 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I read an interview in The Signpost with someone who had started regularly editing after first editing through WikiEd some months back. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm not saying that it's never happened, I'm sure it must have. But in all the cases I've ever come across, student editors are entirely uncommunicative (they are presumably talking to their tutor, and perhaps other students, off-wiki, but they never respond to concerns from other editors); they are often willing to edit war to reinstate their edits (because they have not been instructed on our editing policies, and they do not take time to read them for themselves); they have not been instructed on how to write in an encyclopedic style (they more often go for a persuasive style of writing they use in their essays); and they frequently don't take time to evaluate their sources (which I find remarkable for university-level students, but it is very common). These observations apply to every single case of WikiEd editing I have come across randomly on my watchlist; I wish they didn't. Girth Summit  (blether)  18:09, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Girth Summit, my students weren't always communicative though I managed to coax them into responding, I think. On the other side, as an admin, I've gotten them to speak once or twice--but most often I could only get them or their teacher to communicate after blocking one or more accounts. Those were accounts which didn't go through WikiEd, which made it only worse, since none of them thought to identify themselves or their students as being part of a project. Drmies (talk) 19:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Could it not be the result of the student using AI? See AI hallucination Eddie891 Talk Work 11:43, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * https://gptzero.me/ says no. Not AI. Doug Weller  talk 12:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I found a lot of issues with this class too - see User_talk:Smartse. The student had interviewed the subject and did not understand what the problem with using that as a source was. Unfortunately my interactions with the instructor were not positive either. It does seem as if there is a systematic problem with the way that the students are being taught to create content. SmartSE (talk) 14:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Holy shit that's not good. I'm looking at Maria Emilia Castagliola, which should have never been put in mainspace, certainly not in the condition it was in. Cullen, I do believe that the teacher is responsible here. The problem of academic honesty is for the student but not in this forum, of course--but no teacher should just let that slide. User:Girth Summit, User:Timtrent, I'm afraid that I am also inclined to think of it, now, as a net negative--and I say that having run a couple of those classes, and despite all the hard work that some of the Wiki Ed people are putting in. I got maybe a half dozen decent articles out of as many classes. It's a real shame, and a large part of it is what we teach in American universities and how we teach it--but I'll net get on that hobby horse now. Drmies (talk) 16:33, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 *  Can we send WikiEd to WP:IdeasForDeletion? 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:51, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not just American universities - I have a wikifriend (now RL friend) who has volunteered as an editor-mentor on a UK university-level course, who has had similarly discouraging experiences. I won't mention his username, since I think he volunteered on that course using his actual name, but if I remember correctly he said that every single one of the students ignored his advice about subjects and sourcing, and tried to write articles about non-notable amateur football (soccer) teams, friends who were trying to forge a career in music, etc. Every one of their articles was declined and eventually deleted, but the students got the credit for the course and didn't care. I don't think he's spent his time volunteering in that capacity again. Girth Summit  (blether)  18:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, what I learned is that it just takes a ton of work in-class with article topic selection. If a teacher isn't willing to put in that time, and in many cases to repeat, time and time again, NO DON'T WRITE YOUR ARTICLE ON SOME DUDE TUNING MUSTANGS, it's going to be a disaster. BTW I'm not saying "American universities" because I think others are different, but because I've never taught outside the US. Drmies (talk) 19:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess that Carroll Shelby is the exception to the general rule that Mustang tuners are not notable. Cullen328 (talk) 19:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't propose a rule: I was actually pointing at a specific one. ;) Drmies (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Do you UTRS?
I have on the griddle. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm, fascinating. Yeah, that is a real piece of work from a disturbed teenager--although User:Cheaha Summit is probably worse as a human being. The things we run into here. Drmies (talk) 12:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What a waste of time. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

2023–24 figure skating season
Drmies, could I persuade you to take a peek at what's going on at 2023–24 figure skating season, and have a little come-to-Jesus meeting with User:Bayreuth0115? He/she persists in reverting edits designed to reduce the bulk and fancruft in the article, and refuses to engage on the talk page. Even a report at ANI has had no effect on his/her behavior. You're always so good at handling these editors, I thought you might be willing to take a shot at least getting him/her to the talk page. Thanks! -- Dr. Margi  ✉  18:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, you flatter me: I don't think I'm that good at actually resolving things, but the partial block is a great tool. I don't enjoy blocking them from editing the article but they left us no choice, didn't they. Thanks, and good luck with it, Drmies (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! @Drmargi, I invite you to check out List of highest junior scores in figure skating, which is also appalling in very many ways. Bgsu98   (Talk)  23:06, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Will do! -- Dr. Margi  ✉  23:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not a single Dutch person in there--cull it. Drmies (talk) 00:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You would think the Netherlands would be a heavy-hitter in figure skating, but they surprisingly are not. Bgsu98   (Talk)  00:57, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not at all--it's all about speedskating. I'm not sure why, though. Tradition! And who can explain those. Drmies (talk) 01:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * They skate from town to town when the canals freeze over; you’d think figure skating would be a big deal there. Bgsu98   (Talk)  01:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * We're just trying to get to school on time, or to the bar. It's not about looking pretty. Drmies (talk) 01:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Doc, you rock! Bgsu98 needed a helping hand with a broom. You always come through. -- Dr.  Margi  ✉  23:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bgsu98, I looked at the juniors article. Oh my gawd! -- Dr.  Margi  ✉  02:13, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:202.36.244.42&curid=74989605&diff=1178849071&oldid=1178828311 This doesn’t look promising. Bgsu98   (Talk)  14:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

MDR Jump troll
Hi Drmies, this is a troll from dewiki. See de:Benutzer:--WikiUser1234945--/MDR-Troll for more information, I hope the translator makes it understandable. Have a nice weekend. --WikiUser1234945-- (talk) 18:08, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ugh. I tagged one of them as a master, and then found more, and now I'm learning even more. Sorry you're having to deal with this. Drmies (talk) 22:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Important, very Wikipedia-related update
Jesus Christ, a shader tattoo machine against the vertebrae and shoulderblades hurts something fierce. Tattoo looks great though! Stay tuned at Tegaderm, where I'll be using a pic of the tattoo healing to illustrate the product, just as soon as I get a release for the design. (More distantly, stay tuned at Tattoos and copyright, which has been on my todo list ever since I wrote Mike Tyson's tattoos.) -- Tamzin  &#91;cetacean needed&#93; (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 04:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks to the magic of the Wiki-layout engine, it appears that your tatoo was File:Leaves on Rhine, Erbach.jpg. DMacks (talk) 04:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Mm, maybe for the next one. On my forehead, maybe. (Hmm, would I need to include CC attribution for Gerda?) -- Tamzin  &#91;cetacean needed&#93; (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 06:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * no credit needed, just enjoy ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow--well I hope you heal nicely?! Congrats! Drmies (talk) 01:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Accounts I blocked and you retagged...
Hey Drmies, thanks for figuring out that the two accounts were not new socks, but there was an earlier master for that sock farm, so I retagged. Hope you don't mind.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Should I change it to something other than confirmed, though?--Bbb23 (talk) 22:15, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, well here's the thing--I confirmed them with User:Hassan7246, but that one was not CU-confirmed to the HassanHussain one, so I tagged with the strongest confirmation that I have. In other words, I did not confirm them to HassanHussain. Drmies (talk) 22:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK: Hassan7246 is confirmed by NinjaRP to User:Millows, so all those are indeed CU-confirmed to HassanHussain. Good! [time passes] Well well well well, instead of a sock farm run out of Pakistan or India, these accounts were made much closer to home--and by a student or possibly a staffer. Interesting. Drmies (talk) 22:54, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Requesting Advice
I was wondering if you had any experience with unblock requests as an admin.

COI user Palmstarmedia followed my advice by admitting to his sins, begging forgiveness, and promising to follow the rules in the future. He did something called a UTRS appeal, where they told him to make another unblock request that more directly addresses the reasons he was blocked.

So he comes to me, his consultant, asking how to comply with that feedback, but I don't see any way to more directly address the block rationale than what he's done already. His concern is regarding some poorly-cited lawsuits added by an SPA IP about his one-person company. Seems like notability and BLPGROUP are both potential issues.

I'm not asking you to unblock him. Just hoping for some advice on what he needs to do to correct his conduct and make a better unblock request through proper channels (or if he should just give up).

-Sincerely, That terrible paid editor that writes facts with citations :-p CorporateM (Talk) 22:11, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ,, , , so we have a COI editor here at User talk:Palmstarmedia--I looked over the unblock requests and as usual they go agonizingly slowly step by step (imagine if these editors started by reading the policies!). I think the only step I'm missing is "neutral with secondary sources". Do y'all foresee an unblock? They're clearly a COI editor, but at least we'll know what they are, and from what CorpM says here (I haven't looked at the article), there may be some issues that need addressing.Corp, I hope you didn't tell them to grovel; there's no need to grovel, but what they do need is to show at least some basic understanding of what an encyclopedia is. You know what it is, you wrote real articles... Is everything going well? Send me a DM if I can make some money: I hate my job. Drmies (talk) 22:55, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't generally like to stand in the way of things like this, and I won't here. As long as they understand their requests won't automatically be accepted, unblocking is okay with me. 331dot (talk) 23:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not object to an unblock, but I have no interest in delving into the content dispute. Cullen328 (talk) 23:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No objection to an unblock. Do as you will shall be the whole of the law.  What 331 dot said. --  Deepfriedokra (talk) 00:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Every white-hat COI has to grovel for the time/attention of volunteer editors that are more interested in pop-stars and football players than whatever their company does. The trick is, convincing their pride that groveling is not what they're doing. Regarding the content dispute, I'll pry suggest BLPN to him, since it's a one-person company covered by BLPGROUP. Yah, I'm doing well - about to go on vacation. I'm a lawyer now, part-time. CorporateM (Talk) 00:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Drmies, Since the person in question mainly appears to be working on things about his company as indicated by the quite obvious SPA user name, wouldn't giving them non-main space only editing make sense? Under the new requested user name that is, not the role account one. I think it makes sense, because he should be making edit requests to work on his company's article rather than directly editing anyways. Graywalls (talk) 16:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * So they're free to edit, including their own company page after 3 months, it seems? I'm not trying to challenge your decision but what would they need to be able to edit the article on their own company for when they can use edit request? Graywalls (talk) 19:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I don't feel the need to hand out life sentences all the time. If the partial block runs out and they abuse the privilege, it can be reinstated. Drmies (talk) 23:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to chime in uninvited, editors with a COI are not forbidden from editing their articles directly, just "strongly discouraged", because it is hard to be neutral with a COI (but not impossible). Therefore, I cannot argue with Drmies' idea of a temporary block to hopefully hammer that point home to the editor in question, but then leave it up to them whether they want to play by the rules. Primefac (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

IP 181.26.4.200 user talk trolling
They seem to be doing the same thing you rangeblocked them for a year ago (anti-AIDS trolling) 1. —asparagusus  (interaction)  sprouts!  12:57, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Gotcha--thanks. Drmies (talk) 16:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Requesting a CIR block
Despite you and many other editors offering guidance and warning, has continued their addition of poorly sourced/irrelevant content, taking the material they originally added to Christianity and stitching it to History of Christianity. It's clear that the message isn't getting through or that they are incapable of editing responsibly. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:17, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, the same user appears to be behind the account, though I see no indication that this was sockpuppetry so much as someone forgetting their password. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I was looking into this edit myself when Pbritti reverted it, because much of what it says conflicts with my understanding of the topic. The citations for the December 25 claim fail verification; because the cited sections of Vermaseren and Clauss say nothing at all about December 25, and the Tertullian.org page (though not a source I would cite for separate reasons) correctly states that the hoary assumption that Mithras was celebrated on December 25 was debunked some time ago. I don't see any point in tolerating an editor who simply fabricates citations like this. A. Parrot (talk) 18:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK--simple things first: that's not an account run by them, as far as I can tell. I agree that we are well into CIR/NOTHERE territory, but I suggest you take this to ANI for a few reasons. The first, I think we know where this is headed but I would like for them to see that this wouldn't be the dictum of one particular admin. Second, there's their surprising comment on the talk page, which reads like it was written by an AI, and I'm kind of curious to see what others have to say about it. A. Parrot, if this goes to ANI, please make the 25 Dec point there: by itself that's already damning. Oh, one reason that I think ANI and a community decision is the better way is that I have this vain hope that if such zealous/determined editors see that the community speaks out against it, they might be less inclined to consider socking. Drmies (talk) 19:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Drmies and, I've opened an ANI discussion here. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:23, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

About Articles for deletion/Decadent (band)
Hello Drmies, first of all, I'm sorry if I was a little rude when talking to you, but there was something you didn't know much about the contest, so I made a new article. EBS Hello Rookie Contest. I would like to show you through this article that this competition is "a popular and influential competition, hosted by, broadcasted by, public institutions."

Anyway, I've also added other reliable sources in Decadent (band) and I would like to you see that. thank you 올해의수상자 (talk) 06:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I might have been a little rude when I talked to you before because I was a little angry to be honest. I'm sorry about it, but please make a second judgment. There are reliable sources, major awards (In the first article, they only mentioned once, but I mentioned another nomination now) and competition. Of course it's your judgment, but I wanted to talk about this. 올해의수상자 (talk) 07:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course, the competition article is not something I just made to show you, but it's really famous in South Korea, so I wrote it. But I would like you to know that this competition is as prestigious as this. 올해의수상자 (talk) 07:10, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I gotta say, that's a pretty impressive piece of work. I can't judge it without translating all the sources, but well done. I'm not going to change my mind on the notability (a third place in a rookie contest, I am not that impressed), but I appreciate your note. Drmies (talk) 15:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay I got it, first, thank you for your kitten. So I proved in a reasonable way that it's famous, and that's a good thing. And of translation, I honestly wouldn't be able to translate all those 14 sources accurately. It's not easy to translate the source of long texts, especially because some texts are professional critics (they sometimes adopt metaphorical quotes or ambiguous words) so it's really hard to translate them as a whole. But maybe it's possible to translate them using a translator and then fix some weird sentences. It's 4.47 here (in KST), for now I'm going to sleep, but I'll try to translate some sources in the morning. 올해의수상자 (talk) 19:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not asking you to translate these sources, not at all. That's not my point. Rather, I'm saying that I'm not going to change my mind based on that one third place in the contest. Drmies (talk) 21:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying. And you have a point, but may I ask you about why you told me that this competition is something that is not worth noting, even though I've filled out enough information about it? Regarding this part, I also would like to know the reason why you think it's not, because for me, I gave you the rationale that this competition would be a major competition because it was held by a state agency, broadcasted, and it proved its influence and reputation with reliable sources
 * And even if the competition doesn't impressed, I think this is something you could check out because I put in other reliable sources. Of course, the sources are in Korean, but you can see that there are reliable sauces that mainly deal with them.


 * I'm sorry to bother you a little bit on this part, but I would like to know your clearer reason on this part because the debate continues to be controversial, and I have a different opinion from you. 올해의수상자 (talk) 01:52, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It just doesn't seem that big or notable or important to me. It may be notable by our standards, but given the enormous amount of coverage of K-pop in Wikipedia, one would expect that this event would have been written up ad nauseam in the way that other awards are. Good luck with the AfD. Drmies (talk) 16:33, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I won't call your opinion wrong, but I also want you to know that there are various sources in that document, and even column articles about the contest. It doesn't make sense to see this purely as an advertisement.
 * But I think the same answer will come back even if I tell you this part. So I won't bother you with this topic.
 * To be honest, I'm really stressed out these days, in Wikipedia. I'm not a big expert, but I've worked in this industry in the past, so I tend to have some professional knowledge at least. I also contributed to a small webzine as a freelancer before. Therefore, there is no information on Korean indie music here, and I am writing it, but even though I write it with various sources, I feel very lacking. Also, even though I'm writing famous bands regardless of my taste from a neutral point of view (I even rarely listen to the music from the Decadent I mentioned this time either), I get very stressed out when others misunderstand it as an ad. Of course, we can open a wiki project, but we don't know how many people will join us
 * I'll do my job, and maybe I won't be able to work on a lot of documents because I'm going back to work after long holidays, but I'll take my beliefs and write documents on Wiki.
 * I express my admiration to you for working on articles over a long period of time on Wiki. Of course we had different opinions, but I never had any malice to you. If I knew you in real life, you and I could have become good friends. Next time we meet in a discussion, let's hope to meet each other with a smile. If you read this article, I hope you leave a reply. You can write long like me, or you can just leave one sentence. Because I just want to confirm that you read my reply.
 * PS. It doesn't matter if you tell me I'm writing K-Pop. But if you meet people who write other Korean indie music here, and if you say that they write K-Pop, it may make them sad. Because it's like when you meet a fan of Radiohead, Yo La Tengo, Belle & Sebastian....but if you tell him he is a fan of Taylor Swift, One Direction, he maybe be so sad. Anyway, I just want to tell you that they can be happier if you tell them that they write Korean indie, Korean rock, or K-indie, rather than K-Pop 올해의수상자 (talk) 01:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't stress out. I've been listening to John Coltrane recently. Drmies (talk) 01:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answer. And he's a really good musician. I listened to his music and Miles Davis sometimes when I was a kid, they are legendary artists. 올해의수상자 (talk) 01:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Another sock of User:Viva la independencia
FYI, another sock of the above: User:DerbyCountyinUSA. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 00:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * already blocked. It's pretty childish, huh. Drmies (talk) 00:51, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Reminiscent of the immaturity that was prevalent in the GRG fan-club days. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 05:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm you'll have to refresh my memory. I seem to not retain names of LTAs very well, haha. Drmies (talk) 12:20, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

One in a Million
Hi! Could you please tell me why my edits on One in a Million are "too detailed" when each region has its own release date? What is it about the dates that is excessive and how should we emphasize the difference in release dates without going too deep? Thank you! Bronx Langford 17:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Why do we have all that? Does it matter? Is there something special about this or that release, or re-release? What I see is a table full of dates with no indication of why any of it is relevant. Some of it seems to have actual sourcing, not just some primary link--maybe there's something in those sources that explains why there's relevance there. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The album actually wasn't always available globally, and the box set deluxe edition was released for the first time. The Aug. 20 date is related solely to the US, so why don't we emphasize that the album was released in those formats in other countries too? Bronx Langford 17:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well I'm not sure how exciting that is, but if secondary sources discuss that then it can be worthwhile talking about--by which I mean writing actual text, not just listing a verified date. Again, why would such a date matter, esp. in this kind of granularity? Read the sources, the secondary sources, and get some writing out of that: that, IMO, is progress. I think User:OkIGetIt20 wouldn't object to verified and interesting text about new or re-releases or whatever. Drmies (talk) 18:55, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Aw, I saw this on my watchlist and expected to find a thread with someone telling you that you are one in a million. Instead it's just about you trimming a pop music article. Sad times. Well, I think you're one in a million. Girth Summit  (blether)  19:16, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Drmies, the re-releases that were added by Bronx Langford were trivial. The only re-release for the album that is truly significant is the one from 2021. For over a decade Aaliyah's music wasn't available for purchase or streaming and during the 20th year of her death anniversary all of her albums were digitally available for the first time in over a decade. OkIGetIt20 (talk) 21:06, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Tony’s Beach
I don’t think it’s a COI, I actually think it’s a Hoax. I thought the notable lifeguard section was suspicious and more juvenile than a COI editor would usually input. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 17:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but there is this--and CU cannot confirm they're the same... But the complete absence of Google hits make me think you're right. Do as you like--delete it and block the editor, that's fine with me. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll be bold and delete it. FYI, was just created. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * HickoryOughtShirt?4, thank you very much--pleasure working with you! Drmies (talk) 00:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

João Palhinha et al.
User, with another IP, has reinstated the style of play section in intro (i relocated it to its own section, they put it again in intro, and with a POV statement ("regarded as one of the best defensive midfielders in the world"). In User:Dreamy Jazz's talk, we (not only ME, WE!) are now being threatened with legal consequence if this person is not unblocked.

I have already apologised again in DJ's talkpage. RevampedEditor (talk) 11:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't be apologizing to a block-evading IP making legal threats regardless of the merits of the block of Pinzunski. I've blocked the IP for one week. Even if it's determined that Pinzunski is probably not a sock of Martimc123, based on what they've done post-block, it's unlikely they'll be unblocked anytime soon.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Palhinha's article needlessly enlarged, as several other Portuguese international players back in the day (would also not be one bit surprised if the pic found in the infobox is copyrighted). I got all the proof i needed regarding who's who, i leave this article in peace because i don't need this in my REAL life (and/or any legal threats on my person), stress is really taking its toll (and this is the LAST time i ever report anyone, be it vandals or socks (the latter true or fictional) there are lots of people here well equiped to do that).

Sorry to all parties involved again, cheers! --RevampedEditor (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Frank Salerno
Apparently that IP is registered now. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 18:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

If you have a free minute ...
Back in July you commented in a discussion at Talk:Beall's List. There has been some activity there in the last few days that in my opinion could use some additional attention; my personal attempts to address the situation have not helped, unfortunately. (Not urgent in any sense.) Thanks. --JBL (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks--I will have a look, later. I was thinking about the list only the other day, when I ran into a Nigerian resume. Drmies (talk) 17:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, you should welcome them! It makes talking to them a lot easier. Drmies (talk) 18:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Remember the rabbi?
Hi, Drmies. Remember this article? I feel this contributions list is interesting, and have posted a COI template on the user's page. Bishonen &#124; tålk 21:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC).
 * Hmm a short list of SPAs and socks? ECC2007, Rota CCE21 (against our subject), Jibly411, Dtj2016!, Dtj16, FactChecker18. God that article is awful. Drmies (talk) 00:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for removing some PR trivia. I see that a lot of stuff that I and you both removed in 2018 is right back, now updated with boasts of further good deeds. I probably won't remove it again, as I'd like to be able to sanction COI users; compare the ongoing discussion at User talk:ECC2007. Bishonen &#124; tålk 20:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC).
 * It is such an awful article. Where to start? "It's verified". Verified fluff, yeah. Drmies (talk) 00:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Kenan and Kel episodes
I saw you thanked my edit yesterday and still having trouble with this user,. To me it looks like he is chaning air dates without valid sources, changing episode order that has already been established, and changing words that don't really need to be changed. He has done this with a few other shows and I reverted, but keeps going back on this show. I already have warned him two times in addition to explaining to look at several different polices. I had an issue with another user awhile back, but maybe I am over looking it at the writing, but the directors/writers, production code changes, and numbers changes should be a no go. Can you provide some advice? Magical Golden Whip (talk) 02:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

AfD oops
Articles_for_deletion/Vectra_AI_(2nd_nomination) Can you help me get this cleared out? I changed mind, but hit continue in Twinkle and it went through, so was trying to just undo the nom. Graywalls (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I closed it for you. My preference would have been to delete it per IAR and the good of the encyclopedia, but my fear is it would confuse the AfD bots and the log page. I hope that's helpful. If you really prefer it outright deleted and someone tells me I'm just being a worrywart, then delete away else I'll do it myself.  78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 21:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It would make it look like an "unsuccessful AfD" just the same as something withdrawn days later, not a minute later and could discourage a future re-nom as "having been kept twice". In this case, I wanted to do deeper WP:BEFORE analysis and was going to close out, but hit submit and Twinkle populated multiple different places that I had to manually revert. Graywalls (talk) 22:02, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * yeah I get that. I'm going to outright delete it, and if folks yell at me, they yell at me. 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 22:38, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No yelling from me, at least not after the first half against Tennessee. 78.26, thanks for checking in--I was making gumbo. Yeah I burned the roux the first time... Drmies (talk) 00:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Defeated Sanity
Your revert of Second Skin's edit was in turn reverted by an IP, which has previously backed up an argument put forward by Second Skin on a talk page. Mysterious! Black Kite (talk) 12:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, indeed! That IP's talk page, User talk:207.11.71.205, is interesting. Even funnier is their attempt at reductio ad absurdum--"might as well just get rid of the examples" sounds like a decent idea to me. But, eh,, or should I say Raw Black Kite, or Blackened Kite, or Technical Black Kite, I don't know if you were ever a metalhead, but that genre business in metal is beyond silly. Drmies (talk) 15:30, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The genre issue in metal is indeed ridiculous. Never really a metalhead myself, I was more a goth in my teenage years (and I'm even going to see this lot next week). I tend to stick mainly to an axis of post-rock, folk-rock and punk these days. Black Kite (talk) 16:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm I just listened to "Butterfly on a Wheel" and "Tower of Strength"--neither of em sounded familiar. Maybe I was too busy listening to the Cult and, my favorite, Eat". Oh and my other favorite, Prefab Sprout. New favorite? This. Drmies (talk) 00:21, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Please confirm
Hi, could you please check whether is a sock of ? The behavior is absolutely clear, but it could be coincidence. I indefinitely blocked Andriy for personal attacks. They've already evaded their block with an IP (I'm not asking you to confirm that, of course). They had been edit-warring at 2023–24 Moldovan Super Liga about the spelling of Serhiy Molochko's first name (Andriyrussu wanted it spelled with iy at the end and the other editor wanted it spelled Serhii). GT has reinstated the master's version. They've also created Draft:Serhiy Molochko. Finally, they've created an elaborate userpage, which is somewhat similar to Andriyrussu's userpage (which you might remember from when you blocked the user last month). Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure. Drmies (talk) 00:36, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I threw in User:TroyonX for free. Listen, they're not from Turkey. AlwaysLearning, whose current name I can't remember, knows this sock: same country as him, but I found no others. Drmies (talk) 00:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Gee, two for the price of one, and TroyonX is globally locked to boot. Another obvious userpage. Yeah, I know they're not from Turkey. I don't know who AlwaysLearning was/is, but my belief (based on the IP range I blocked) is they are editing from Portugal. I doubt they are actually Portuguese, but that is apparently where they are living. There's some other indirect evidence to support that as well. Obviously, I don't ask you to confirm my suspicions. Apparently, you and I are among the few idiots still working on Wikipedia this late on a Sunday night. Thanks much for checking.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:20, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * After I posted this I saw your block, and then I knew that you knew. AlwaysLearning is also called Vasco (or VASCO), and he's a Portuguese soccer editor who's been here as long as I have. They drop by every now and then, and interestingly enough he hates Christiano Ronaldo. Oh, he's actually right here on this page--User:RevampedEditor. Vasco, who's this longtime soccer sock that you keep talking to? Does GultenTasgin look like him? Bbb, it's a Bama treat tonight: Jalen Hurts (Eagles) plays against Tua Tagovailoa (Dolphins). Apparently there's twelve Alabama players on these two teams, and I got nothing better to do so I'm watching. ;) Drmies (talk) 01:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I know RE. He's the one that kept apologizing because he thought an editor was a sock of Martimc23. BTW, I just noticed that your initial response above linked to a YouTube. Not a big fan of rapping (big surprise), but I enjoyed his voice. Just finished cleaning up a section in his article about a lawsuit filed against him.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, you were there. Maybe Martimc23 is the one. Yeah, I like Black Sherif--I know of him because of some edits that I saw go by. I think you know I'm a fan of African cultures, and while this really isn't my style either, I like it, and Rosie does too--esp. that line where he holds up the fork, haha. And "I was young, what you expect of me"--that's right, it's OK, you were young. We all were! I like the video too, BTW: it's so weird, so full of non sequiturs. Drmies (talk) 01:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Declan Rice
Hello, hope you're well. I noticed you blocked an IP address for making disruptive edits on the Declan Rice page on 20 October after several warnings on their talk page. It seems that same user is making the exact same edits as soon as the ban has been lifted, please could you look into this? Michaeldble (talk) 15:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Harvard Letter Controversy
How can you say it's not news? There's literally hundreds of articles about it. It deserves to go on the page. MaskedSinger (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC) Books about beer are typically boring. My book, on the other hand, is full of fascinating essays, and it has (color!) pictures--not bad for an academic publication. Drmies (talk) 16:55, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Disagree. NOTNEWS applies. One letter, in hundreds of years of history, that's a poster child for UNDUE. Drmies (talk) 17:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * So what? It's not just the letter. It's the backlash that followed it. If you don't like the edit, take it up on the talk page. MaskedSinger (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not about "liking". Drmies (talk) 17:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Its legitimate content added with legitimate sources. It is news - very much news. MaskedSinger (talk) 17:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * And that's what newspapers are for. Stop pestering me here: discuss it on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 17:43, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Drmies told you it's "NOTNEWS", which is that the role of Wikipedia is NOT to serve as a newspaper. To insist back that "This is very much news" is basically proving his point. -- ferret (talk) 18:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I meant it was news in the sense that its newsworthy for Wikipedia, just as any notable news is added to the page. I dont believe it qualifies at WP:NOTNEWS. The original letter was signed a week ago and this story is still going. This isn't a first-hand news report on a breaking story and nor is this routine news. Depending on your application of WP:NOTNEWS you could have a case for removing just about anything you wanted from Wikipedia. MaskedSinger (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just noting that a talk page discussion has been started. Primefac (talk) 09:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I saw that Primefac, thanks. Oh, the storm may have died down. Drmies (talk) 12:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What if I don't like bullet points? Eh? Primefac (talk) 14:18, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Then the wiki-ghost of Rexx will haunt you. Drmies (talk) 17:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Doktoro has been performing colonectomy, I see. Uncle G (talk) 13:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well well well, the return of Uncle G. I thought of you the other day when I was trying a new recipe for pecan pie. Drmies (talk) 13:33, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You cannot fool me, Doktoro. I saw that you pulled your university press book of beer off the shelf.  Uncle G (talk) 16:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

What is a JFC
Hey Drmies, in this comment, you mentioned a "JFC" was strong but not warranted. I just search for what a JFC is (i.e. WP:JFC) and can't find anything. I've already coaled out of the discussion and don't plan to comment further. But, I am curious, what is a JFC? In over 20,000 edits, I haven't ever heard of that wiki short-hand before. Is that like a trout slap? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Jesus fucking Christ. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah ok. Facepalm... The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A slightly different version, Holy shit... Jesus Christ. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:13, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's all good. But I hope you see my point--"Hamas accuses Israel" does not a fact make. SFR, stop cussing on my talk page: it's a happy place. Drmies (talk) 01:14, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh shit, sorry about that. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:17, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What did the good Drmies just fucking tell you? -- ferret (talk) 01:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Something about Leffe and &hellip; erm &hellip; Belgium. There, I said it.  The rudest one of them all, and it was in Doktoro's OUP dictionary too.  Uncle G (talk) 06:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I love Belgium. You can walk into a supermarket there and find an entire aisle with nothing but kriek. Drmies (talk) 13:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Chris Sharp
Looking at User:Chrissharp80's comments and mass attacks on the talk page today, I think it's time to show this user the door. Instantly jumps to confrontation, attacks and accusations without even reading anything that's been provided. Canterbury Tail talk 14:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * And this looks like a clear legal threat to me. Canterbury Tail</b> <i style="color: Blue;">talk</i> 15:02, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You know, if you got the bit... ;) Drmies (talk) 15:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, trying to stay away from the very very vaguely "involved". Actually no, I'm not involved, this is a random article I came across. <b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b> <i style="color: Blue;">talk</i> 15:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Dolly!
Uncle G (talk) 17:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I have found an English Professor, Doktoro, and will sneak xem in without mentioning the English bit. After all, xe does xyr professoring at Vanderbilt.  Uncle G (talk) 07:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This is in addition to Davidson. Vanderbilt seems heavily represented here, Doktoro.  Alas, I cannot see how to hush this up.  Uncle G (talk) 07:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh no, Doktoro! Antoinette Elizabeth Taylor is connected to Vanderbilt, too!  I have carefully hidden this in a  cite journal where no-one shall see it, or think to go and read other encyclopaedias or University of Missouri Press books (ISBN 9780826264282), though.  Uncle G (talk) 09:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Great work, Uncle--thank you so much. Let's hope no one spots the editorial commentary. Listen, I got interested in her because, it seems, she was instrumental in the naming of Sidney Lanier High School; local lore has it that she and the UDC got the school to be named thusly. And in keeping with that Southern chivalry stuff, Baldwin (the first Lanier, so to speak) is larded with chivalric imagery on tiles and other ornamental features. Drmies (talk) 15:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I have found nothing to that effect, Doktoro. Your interest in the ornamental features of Baldwin could be misinterpreted, moreover.  In addition to finding the connection between Vanderbilt and Antoinette Elizabeth Taylor when reading about your Dolly, I have found some sources that document some of the political speech of  which indicate that the neutrality criticism on the talk page might well have a good case.  I wonder whether The Onion Lady is still interested in this subject a decade later.  Uncle G (talk) 01:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, sure but "whitewashed" is kind of a shitty way to phrase it--as if it was there, but then removed. "Incomplete" is a better word. I have Hale's Making Whiteness laying around here somewhere and I'll have another look. Drmies (talk)
 * cited in the article but used once has been very underused. It goes into a lot of detail, including an amusing quote where a Texas newspaper offered her a calendar to tell her that it was in fact 1924 not 1865.   above discusses the white supremacism, too.   has "censoring school books" and the textbook revisionism in favour of a 'UDC version of "truth"', as well as a political speech by Rutherford making the argument that many of the Founding Fathers were slaveholders. Uncle G (talk) 02:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yikes, yeah, I certainly was trying to cover that stuff, not whitewash it. I have no opposition to there being more coverage added. I am interested, but not sure I have the energy to tackle a big rewrite now myself. However if anyone wants to work on it, I'll be glad to do so together! Lady  of  Shalott  11:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC) Also, thanks,  for tagging me. I've been less active here than at some times, and had missed that talk page discussion.  Lady  of  Shalott  14:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If you want to take a look at Doktoro's Dolly, slightly less extensively documented than Mildred Lewis Rutherford, it is at User:Drmies/Dorothy Blount Lamar. Uncle G (talk) 17:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

October music
My story today is sad but great. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:31, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

A few more pics, and see my talk for what Tabea Zimmermann played (today's story on her birthday): I heard it, and it's on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

More pics, and today's story is on a birthday, and the real DYK was already on that birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Today, it's a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. My corner for memory and music has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

I thought of Brian Bouldton today, and his ways to compromise. - I'm on vacation again, more pics to come, but too tired after church (pictured on my talk), hiking and paella. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:34, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Copyvios at Winchester College
Drmies, Franglaiseausud is rapidly adding one copyvio after another from https://www.winchestercollege.org/assets/files/uploads/Winchester%20College%20in%20the%2021st%20Century_Final_Vision.pdf after another to the Winchester College article. I think a block is the only solution now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You're right--sad but true. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 17:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

November Articles for creation backlog drive
<div style="border: 2px solid #484898; background: #FFF; background-color:#98FB98; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 99%"> Hello Drmies:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!

The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Good luck with that, robot! User:Drmies/Gwerz an Aotrou Nann was submitted to the real Articles for creation back in May 2021.  And we all know that Doktoro works for pie, cheese, bacon, and beer, with the occasional joy of just being in the world of K-Pop; not for barnstars. &#9786; Uncle G (talk) 07:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, it slipped through the cracks? I take care of a couple of drafts every session; I see that we're down to about 3,000 from 3,400 yesterday, so that's progress. Drmies (talk) 12:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Aquinas
Here's an amusing thought that I thought might amuse you too, Doktoro: It occurred to me that if one worked hard enough one could probably show in-depth coverage in multiple published works in Latin. That would be a first for AFD. We would probably need a Mediaevalist, though. I just tried to see what I could make of de Cognitio Angelorum (Q. 8) and I turned up some cat named Diego de Silva y Pacheco writing about it in Latin in 1663. Uncle G (talk) 14:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this medievalist can no longer claim any fluency in Latin... Drmies (talk) 22:37, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Klan
You work so fast. You deleted my addition while I was putting the citation in shape. Iss246 (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You can shape that citation all you want, but that doesn't make the quote worth inserting in the lead of that article. And just now you stuck it back in--with some decidedly non-neutral phrasing. Stop. Take it up on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 00:48, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

@Drmies, I think you could help me with a contradiction I found in the KKK article. I wrote about the contradiction on the KKK talk page. I add that the sentence indicating that the KKK is the first organized terror organization in the U.S. belongs where I placed it because it is well documented. It is a neutral statement in that it is the truth about the KKK. The statement is sustained by an important source. I followed your advice about making the sentence formal and including the source in WP citation style. Iss246 (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If it were me, I'd find a university press book, or something written by Brigitte L. Nacos and instead of getting someone's did-you-know chatty factoid down actually say something well analysed. Uncle G (talk) 02:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You are right about social exclusion terrorism but it is still naked terrorism. The Southern Poverty Law Center also indicates that the KKK is the oldest hate group in the U.S., or at least the oldest hate group that uses that name. According to the SPLC, the KKK in one incarnation or another, murdered thousands of African-Americans beginning with the conclusion of the Civil War. That is what I mean by naked terrorism. The first wave of KKK groups disbanded with the advent of Jim Crow laws but they eventually arose again. I ask your help in addressing a contradiction in the KKK entry. The text indicates that Klansmen started wearing the hooded robes after 1910 but there is an illustration based on an 1870 photo that purports to show Klansmen wearing hoods. Iss246 (talk) 04:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well we're here to write what scholarship says about these things, not discuss our personal opinions of them. I've said what I would write, and the sort of sources I would go looking for.  But like Doktoro I have a lot on my plate already, and won't be looking at that article.  I might even have reached my quota that I permit myself for this week, with all of the California places, although I suspect I should give Lowrey, California a quick scan before Jengod beats me to it and finds the school and the mines hiding behind the "unincorporated community" dren, and discovers the magic by which I know that the "M." stands for "Malay".  Or someone nominates it for deletion.  Uncle G (talk) 12:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You are right about social exclusion terrorism but it is still naked terrorism. The Southern Poverty Law Center also indicates that the KKK is the oldest hate group in the U.S., or at least the oldest hate group that uses that name. According to the SPLC, the KKK in one incarnation or another, murdered thousands of African-Americans beginning with the conclusion of the Civil War. That is what I mean by naked terrorism. The first wave of KKK groups disbanded with the advent of Jim Crow laws but they eventually arose again. I ask your help in addressing a contradiction in the KKK entry. The text indicates that Klansmen started wearing the hooded robes after 1910 but there is an illustration based on an 1870 photo that purports to show Klansmen wearing hoods. Iss246 (talk) 04:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well we're here to write what scholarship says about these things, not discuss our personal opinions of them. I've said what I would write, and the sort of sources I would go looking for.  But like Doktoro I have a lot on my plate already, and won't be looking at that article.  I might even have reached my quota that I permit myself for this week, with all of the California places, although I suspect I should give Lowrey, California a quick scan before Jengod beats me to it and finds the school and the mines hiding behind the "unincorporated community" dren, and discovers the magic by which I know that the "M." stands for "Malay".  Or someone nominates it for deletion.  Uncle G (talk) 12:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well we're here to write what scholarship says about these things, not discuss our personal opinions of them. I've said what I would write, and the sort of sources I would go looking for.  But like Doktoro I have a lot on my plate already, and won't be looking at that article.  I might even have reached my quota that I permit myself for this week, with all of the California places, although I suspect I should give Lowrey, California a quick scan before Jengod beats me to it and finds the school and the mines hiding behind the "unincorporated community" dren, and discovers the magic by which I know that the "M." stands for "Malay".  Or someone nominates it for deletion.  Uncle G (talk) 12:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Ted Poor
Hi! Pay attention that four references on the list are from NY Times, just in case it was missed. lkitross (talk) 13:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The question that I ask myself when writing an article is: Which source is the major source? Which source am I hanging the structure of this biography off?  It's not those three 1-sentence mentions and a picture caption from the NYT in your case.  A big clue would be lots of ^ ^ ^ ^ backlinks from the citation of that source.  But no citation in your draft has more than one such.  What are the 1, or even 2 or more, broad-coverage biographical sources?  Who are their identifiable authors?  And what are their identifiable credentials and independence of the article subject?  Show that &mdash; make it easy for the reviewer to find &mdash; and you'll get a lot further. Uncle G (talk) 15:08, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * lkitross, what my uncle is pointing out is precisely what I think also: those links to the NYT, they provide mentions, no more than that. If no reliable secondary source has seen fit to publish anything of substance on a person, why should that person be considered notable? What I saw was a draft that tried its hardest to construct notability out of a plethora of mentions, some from more reliable sources than others. Drmies (talk) 16:22, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Better sources added: The Guardian, Modern Drummer, Jazz Times, Glide Magazine, Jazz Trail. Does it help? Need more? lkitross (talk) 06:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Reconcile Filippo Surace and Draft:Filippo_Surace
Hi Drmies, I'm seeking your guidance to reconcile Filippo Surace and Draft:Filippo_Surace, which are effectively the same page.

On 18 July 2023 I declined to publish the draft (it has reasonable potential but required significant cleanup, which I explained in my comment). Today the author of the draft Intrisit posted on my Talk page alerting me that the page Filippo Surace was in mainspace, and was effectively the same content as the draft (with the same problematic issues). I was inclined to move the page to draftspace but can't because the draft is still in existence.

Could you please advise a course of action, whenever you have a moment? With appreciation, Cabrils (talk) 22:58, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's the same with Draft:Isaac Richard III and Isaac Richard III. In both cases another account has come along, made exactly 10 mostly reverted fairly useless edits to get autoconfirmed, and just copied the draft into article space.   and  in place of  and . Uncle G (talk) 02:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Quite the little collection growing of accounts making trivial and largely useless wikilinks (like "writers and "fictional" and "vehicles") to get autoconfirmed, here.  and  have joined the party. Uncle G (talk) 10:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I bet CU would reveal one of two things: either a broad range of IPs with tons and tons of editors from West Africa, or a broad range of IPs with tons and tons of editors from from Pakistan or Bangladesh. Drmies (talk) 14:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's definitely an editing farm of some sort. Uncle G (talk) 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Cabrils, the thing is up for deletion--let's wait and see. If it's kept we could move it into draft space and merge it, maybe, though that would be a bit unusual. Drmies (talk) 20:06, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Great plan, thanks very much. Cabrils (talk) 22:20, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Cabrils, I forgot, after all those blocks, to delete the draft. It's gone now. Drmies (talk) 17:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, this has been instructive for me, which I appreciate. Cabrils (talk) 23:27, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I kind of lost track of how many blocks I placed; the links above, and I haven't checked all of them, led me to three different sock farms: Sockpuppet investigations/Abbasshaikh124, User:Originalmichael, and User:Infomavros/User:Jhenry1999/User:Isaacrichard. I don't think I'm done yet, but I may be done, haha. Drmies (talk) 22:27, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Doktoro needs a soothing subject
Oh no, Doktoro! This won't do! I don't come to AFC to get you to look at your socks. Quick! We must find some not-your-socks thing. Alas! There's not much for you at or  or, as they are no longer bad-GNIS-import "unincorporated community" dren. The only thing that comes immediately to hand is, which unfortunately would require a German Professor, and we don't even have any English Professors on this page. Perhaps some soothing furniture topics? &#9786; (Just do not ask why Californians get their own special cold forks. Just do not.) Uncle G (talk) 03:36, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh Uncle G I wish I had a bunch of time on my hands--I can't even get to the gwerz. I'm reworking a biography of Clifford L., and it's not even for Wikipedia... Drmies (talk) 16:19, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * My Bing search for "Clifford L." "K-Pop" has unfortunately not turned up anything, Doktoro. Uncle G (talk) 18:15, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether it will be as soothing as Jengod's government forms, but I might start off a little brown box about the Lesher Dollar (Did we know about it, or even know that we didn't know about it? no! no! no! no! no!) for you, Doktoro, which I found by chance as a result of .  It turns out that there's an Arcadia Publishing book on the things written by two ex-presidents, you see. At least one other encyclopaedia could have already asked: Did you know &hellip; that the Lesher Dollar had the support of governor Davis H. Waite and senator Edward Oliver Wolcott?undefined Uncle G (talk) 10:19, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).



Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg 0xDeadbeef
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Tamzin
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Dennis Brown

Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Pppery
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Ragesoss · TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

Technical news
 * The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
 * There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.

Arbitration
 * Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections.
 * , and  have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee Elections.  is the reserve commissioner.
 * Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
 * Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
 * Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
 * Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
 * An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.

Miscellaneous
 * The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:22, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Trip Gabriel
Hi doc, hoping you could advise here. This article is basically unsourced, with pretty much all the refs linking to primary sources. Seems like a bunch of OR, possibly all put up by the page's subject or someone close to them. Does this person even satisfy any notability guideline? Should we nominate for afd, overtemplate it, or roll up our sleeves and do the work the original coi editor didn't bother to do? Asking you because you've assisted me in the past, not because I think this subject has any intetest for you. Thanks Hydromania (talk) 06:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Doktoro much prefers furniture and K-Pop. I can dig up the diffs.  But  being the original author claiming that Helen Gabriel is the subject's mother does raise some red flags.  As does the possibility of  being some sort of . Uncle G (talk) 10:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I see someone deprodded it. So AfD it is. It's possible the subject satisfies a notability requirement, but as-is, the article is useless. I also don't like rewarding COI editors by doing their work for them. Hydromania (talk) 04:04, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Spam wonderful spam
re your comment on the Vera Clinic Afd page.... Sorry to spoil you fun and all that (there are advertising supplements that I read for the toe-curling awfulness or their copy) but some people (I'm one) get their kicks copyediting these collections of snouts and entrails... can't keep everybody happy!TheLongTone (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

May I bend your ear, please?
Sockpuppet investigations/Krakhesh is disturbing, mainly because K is a long standing editor, and appears to be a university professor who passes NPROF. I actually do not want to be correct in this report, but I feel I am. I'm content to be told that there are loads of other SPIs waiting, and to sit quietly and wait. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are loads of other SPIs waiting, so sit quietly and wait. ;) Drmies (talk) 18:21, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ~sits on hands and whistles tunelessly~Are we getting more SPI reports, or is there a shortage of detail oriented people handling the work?Hope that whistling isn't getting on your nerves 😈 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You and your coding. I don't know, Tim. It is a lot of work, and the clerking takes a lot of time too. The bottleneck is probably figuring out which cases are quick and easy (like this one) and which ones require a lot of work. Some of the ones that need CU are a lot of work, especially if the socks are really smart, or there's lots of ranges, or there's a lot of socks. Other SPIs, the ones that need a behavior check, well they're probably the hardest ones. This one, that was hard. Anyway, there's a couple of bottleneck opportunities, and only so many of us, and most of the clerks probably hate me because I don't really know how to do all the paperwork, and I kind of fly in and out, like this time. ;) Drmies (talk) 00:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Crikey! I think your example of a hard case reinforces my thinking. Every time I am borderline about considering whether I might just be competent enough to volunteer to clerk I see that I am not. I don't have the level of detail orientation that the role requires. I'm not saying that in order to be persuaded. I'm saying it because it is clear to me. These are roles to be done well, and one has to know one's limitations. 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Principles of art
In case you wanted to answer questions or clarify comments before work actually starts in earnest, you may want to follow up at Talk:Principles of art. I also replied to your warning on my talk page, but also wanted to make clear that I did not write the content you were complaining about, and was instead trying to set up the page for addressing your concerns (if I understood them correctly). —AySz88\<font color="#FF9966">^ <font color="#FF6633">- <font color="#FF3300">^ 08:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Drmies (talk) 02:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It was some utterly rubbish sourcing, and I cannot fault Doktoro for being doubtful. I had a look around out of interest and I can turn up some better sourcing, but all of the better sourcing that I've found (a) calls this principles of design, (b) discusses it inextricably with the elements of art, in a way that the Visual design elements and principles article does, and (c) discusses this in the context of teaching art.  So personally I'm on the side of the redirect, and either a redirect or merger of elements of art too, in fact.  Uncle G (talk) 13:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for this revert. I'm quite sure that this new user is a sock of User:Bikrampuri. SPI case page here. Apart from new IDs, they typically use Japanese IPs for their edits. Thanks again. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh really? Well that sucks--I thought I had a nice and helpful conversation with a new editor... Drmies (talk) 01:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, next one... Drmies (talk) 02:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

looks like a WikiEd student. Grant IPBE? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:38, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm yeah but I don't see where I come in, or where the hardblock is. I blocked one of the ranges, sure--but I think the best thing to do is ping User:Blablubbs, who blocked another, and is probably smarter than me. Blablubbs, if you have a look, look at the notes in the log by Bradv and ST47. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't see anything that would prevent them from editing while logged in. --Blablubbs (talk) 14:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks y'all. That's what Yamla said when I was at the Park. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:33, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, --I forgot to mention that I didn't see any hardblocks anywhere. It came to me in the shower but then we had biscuits and gravy, so I totally forgot. One more thing: I should congratulate you on the picture of the baby badgers. That's adorable and beautiful. Drmies (talk) 16:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Bayreuth0115
You may remember this user whom you blocked earlier in the week for continued disruptive editing on the figure skating articles. I believe they have been editing while logged out with a roaming variety of IP accounts that all geolocate to Berlin, Germany. The articles hit hardest have been:
 * 2022–23 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating
 * 2023–24 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating
 * 2022–23 ISU Challenger Series
 * 2023–24 ISU Challenger Series
 * 2023–24 figure skating season
 * 2022–23 figure skating season
 * 2023–24 ISU Junior Grand Prix

If it's not possible to block the IPs because they keep changing, would it be possible to protect these articles to prevent further disruption? Thank you! Bgsu98  (Talk)  22:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, semi-protection is one thing and I saw your request for the one article. On the other hand, the IP you noticed, I just blocked them: they are typical, so to speak. So, with further disruption also comes the opportunity for us to place rangeblocks. A thing you can do is make a subpage and simply list the disruptive IPs, and then we can act on that. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I had sent the two articles to RPP, but then thought it might be easier just to list all of the affected articles in one place rather than send them through separately. I will let you know if (hell, when) there’s a recurrence. Also, will you be extending Bayreuth’s block a little longer for likely sockpuppetry? Bgsu98   (Talk)  01:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I just dropped a block on a range, and extended the block to indefinite. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Drmies, it didn’t take too long: 79.210.163.173 is back at it. Bgsu98   (Talk)  14:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 14:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Drmies And again... 62.214.191.67; 84.164.246.137 & 185.238.219.76 . Bgsu98   (Talk)  19:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Admire their persistence! This won't go on forever. Drmies (talk) 20:30, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thankfully, I'm stubborn. Bgsu98   (Talk)  20:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * And again: 185.238.219.117 & 84.142.223.59 Bgsu98   (Talk)  00:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Have you ever been described as someone’s “Dutch sugar daddy” before? 😂😂😂 Bgsu98   (Talk)  13:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * And again: 80.142.10.168 Bgsu98   (Talk)  13:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I made something: User:Bgsu98/Bayreuth0115. Feel free to drop everything in there, including the ones we noted before--this will help with finding the proper ranges. User:Ohnoitsjamie, thanks for the block. Drmies (talk) 15:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Reading
Hello! Why did you revert a number of edits including good edits in the Reading article? Do you have objections against all the edits you reverted, or against just one particular edit? Could you please specify what was wrong so we know in the future? One of the edits is a paragraph added; other edits are technical, like fixing links, duplicate reference declarations, and minor grammar errors. Are all the edits bad? Could you please let us know the details? Thank you in advance! --Maxim Masiutin (talk) 12:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Gotcha--it was the edits by Class of 2027. Thanks. (Who is "we"?) Drmies (talk) 13:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I read that, too. Special:Diff/1184301842.  I think that we can squarely lay that at the feet of  alone, which has a familiar capitalization style for some misleading edit summaries.  &#9786;  Maxim Masiutin, I suspect that you can relax, this is nothing to do with you.  &#9786;  Uncle G (talk) 14:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Me and other wikipedians who might edit this article. Maxim Masiutin (talk) 14:32, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It is interesting to see that Contents6762 suspects LLM-generated content. MrOllie has dealt with some of the other edits.  Uncle G (talk) 14:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Uncle G what's wrong with the LLM-generated content? I read an essay at LLM that is is not outright discouraged, and careful use is OK. Maxim Masiutin (talk) 14:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I was going to give you an answer based upon putting that question into Bing's LLM, but it immediately started riffing wacky themes and variations based upon that very page. &#9786; Uncle G (talk) 12:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm getting a lesson in ChatGPT from my kids this week. Drmies (talk) 13:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I ran a quick check since there's really no way a brand-new editor gets so much right, but it showed nothing. Drmies (talk) 15:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Sangita Swechcha
COI are not paid contributions :) <b style="color:#29F">DI</b><b style="color:red">V</b><b style="color:#080">I</b><b style="color:#808">N</b><b style="color:#FA0">E</b> 14:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "This involvement was WP:PAID". Drmies (talk) 15:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That was another page not this one. I have clearly mentioned on my userpage and also mentioned there that I haven’t taken any financial gain via this page. <b style="color:#29F">DI</b><b style="color:red">V</b><b style="color:#080">I</b><b style="color:#808">N</b><b style="color:#FA0">E</b> 05:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Ellie Moon
Heya Drmies, saw you editing Ellie Moon. Have you considered running a CU on the recent arrival? The similarity to the editor I just blocked is hard to ignore, but alas I no longer have the CU bit to do it myself. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:24, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did, and I ran it, but there was nothing there. I didn't run the other one for comparison, but both of them are so inept at editing (and at writing/scholarship) that it's not really worth the time. You and Valereee have the patience of saints. Drmies (talk) 21:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh you blocked that IPv6: thank you. That was getting irritating; it took me quite a while to make something out of that weirdly-phrased edit with the citation. Drmies (talk) 21:30, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was my bad for forgetting to block the /64 in the first place. Thanks for the CU assist. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a good thing you semi-protected that article; I think there's coordinated editing going on. CU geolocates the two accounts very close to each other, but not in the same range. They could still be the same person of course. I think we owe it to Moon to make that article as good as it can be--I've also been pruning the other article just a bit, and that article is painful to read. Drmies (talk) 22:16, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

On this subject, Lurkers: Note Administrators' noticeboard. Also note that on Talk:Ellie Moon and Talk:Adult Adoption, Valereee is shouldering the burden largely alone of answering who is asking what happened to the articles written by. Uncle G (talk) 07:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Tom Rhea
I've just been reading about this chap. (he's a pioneer of synthesiser design; of course I'm going to end up reading about him!) and the source in question describes him as "a professor at Berklee College of Music", so I thought, aha, he meets WP:PROF then, let me go and write an article. But I'm struggling to find an actual source that confirms what he does and at what position. The best I can find from an obvious search is this, which is obviously no good as a source, and this one which just says he "teaches" there without qualifying his position.

In the past, I would have asked DGG for his advice; since he's gone, I don't really have a "go to" admin to ask for articles on academics. Any ideas?

(Note, the Tom Rhea we currently have is a redirect to Thomas Rhea, a completely unrelated person) <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Still not much better as a source, but this facebook post from the Berklee department says he retired in 2017. Also, not RS, but this says he was Associate Professor, Electronic Production and Design Department, at Berklee College of Music. An alternative "go to" to DGG on matters of WP:PROF could be . SmartSE (talk) 15:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree; David is good. The living David, that is. I miss DGG very much. For notability things and h-scores and all that I often ask . Drmies (talk) 16:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I tend to look at such things with a couple of things in mind. Is the article promotional, is the subject alive? Those problems aren't here for this: there are no BLP/promotional concerns here. Then, the AfD perspective. Would I discredit a source in an AfD discussion? I would accept this (he talks about how Mahavishnu was an eye opener for him!) and the other things on that page. But we should also accept this--I have no problem with it, and it provides fodder for a number of articles. And this--why not? We should cite this in the article on Raymond Scott, and see how we can establish that Rhea was a columnist/contributor to Contemporary Keyboard (this is really interesting for expanding that article). Drmies (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * His columns in that magazine are worth noting, and one of the magazine's main attractions: "A combination of serious pop music related to the keyboard, including electronic keyboards. Mainly of interest for columns by Robert Moog, Roger Powell, Rhea, and David Burge. Rhea cited as "a historian of electronic musical instruments". More proof of his notability as a scholar: "Studies by scholars such as Tom Rhea have shown that, of the large number of electric instruments built in the first half of the century, few are remembered." Ha, all we have to do is find his books and journal articles. I have a feeling that some of these nuggets might appear here. Drmies (talk) 17:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hal Leonard published a few books with him as a contributor, books published in collaboration with Keyboard Magazine. Synthesizers and Computers is also cited in a 1983 catalog from Moog. I'd love to find a list of his article publications. Maybe there's some in this book? 18 hits for his name but I don't have access to it. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Assistance requested
User:Drmies, I'm so sorry to bother you, but User:JosephWC is up to his usual nonsense again. Not only is he still adding trivial non-appearances without providing valid reasons, such as with the Vulture and Zzzax, he is also starting WP:EDITWARs with and mounting personal attacks on me and 8.37.179.254, refusing to be WP:CIVIL about any of this, and removing citation requests without actually replacing them with a reliable source. Plus, he removed your block information from his talk page, also for no reason. I've already requested User:Materialscientist's help in this matter and, though I said I didn't want to bother you Drmies in that message, Joseph's shenanigans is getting out of hand. Please reply when you can. Blazewing16 (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Personal attacks, what a load of bull. Removing a block detail is my call on MY PAGE, not yours to make. Is it? JosephWC (talk) 04:16, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this feud not stem from a silly edit war over whether or not to wikilink the term "SMS". If it is, my views to you are - it doesn't really matter one way or the other. Please go and edit something else. Or is it because Blazewing16 reverted your edit because it was "Undoing the addition of unsourced material and frankly unnecessary material." In which case my views are - he's right, we don't need that much excessive detail, especially when no source was provided to validate its importance. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  10:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * , I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had enough of this editor's shenanigans. Hope you're doing well, my friend. Drmies (talk) 14:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this is out in the open on-wiki anyway - I have moved in with the woman I plan on marrying, and couldn't be happier. How's you? <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Bel
Doktoro, if you feel like travelling, you could go to Louisiana &mdash; only a short hop, I am sure &mdash; and tell all of the Louises &mdash; You might have to shout a bit to be heard all of the way across the bayous. &mdash; that we are missing J. A. Bel/John Albert Bel and his turn of the 20th century lumber business, and later Estate and Oil companies; and that it's only thanks to that we now know that we didn't even know that we didn't know this. I can see the existence of biographies and later histories of the companies after his death, but they are not accessible to me. The Louises will no doubt have better access. I wonder whether any of your Lurkers are Louisianianians. Uncle G (talk) 11:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

LTA IP
Hello Drmies. A while back you briefly dealt with this Croatian long-term abusive IP with a dynamic range. They follow, harass and insult editors they perceive to be Serbian.

They just posted a comment on an RfC attacking me personally. Can their edit be reverted? Also unsure if revdel applies here as well. Thank you. --Griboski (talk) 20:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If someone insults you that can be deleted--you can do it yourself. Or you can simply remove it, or redact it. It's not rev-deletable, IMO. I am sorry that you get yelled at like that. Drmies (talk) 23:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Openly admitted sock master
See User talk:Jeremiah Gottwald. "I have a gazillion fake accounts." -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well that makes two of us! Drmies (talk) 21:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, right, Antinatalism--that's weird. I see that is already on the case--that's a shame, cause I could use the bonus check. Drmies (talk) 21:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It really needs more CUs to count to a gazillion.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:29, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That article really needs a deeper dive. I just removed a ton of highly questionable material--that most recent sock may not have been the first NOTHERE editor. Drmies (talk) 21:31, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If it's not, they sure went through a lot of effort to look just like it :P (I have not used my magic goggles) -- ferret (talk) 21:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I have been reliably informed by the 21st century's greatest philosopher that there will be more than enough for both of us to meet quota. – bradv  22:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * And they just have to be a jerk about it? Drmies (talk) 01:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a real prince. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Definitely an odd topic. But having blocked the sock and protected the page my job as the on-duty janitor is done. Happily handing the rest of this off to the plumbing team. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Brackets
I've tried to find a happy medium at Bracket, Doktoro. I've suggested a further one for the massive Unicode table at Talk:Bracket. But I must get back to being now. I've been putting off North Fork Kentucky River because I suspect that it will be even more Troublesome than the Troublesome things. And I haven't even found the Troublesome things in the other counties yet. Uncle G (talk) 05:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh there are plenty, including in my home country. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving, Uncle. Drmies (talk) 14:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

That was…
…the second most exciting Iron Bowl to watch. Grats.  Volunteer Marek  00:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * With a much better ending than that other game. Thanks. I appreciate the note: hell of a game. I'm sure you saw my video on Facebook: I knew Milroe could get it on a fourth down. :) Tell your dad I said hi. Drmies (talk) 00:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

My talk page
Who is the "we" that decides what can and can't stand? I prefer to keep my talk page intact. There was no threat, BLP violation, or personal attack on anyone other than myself. --Onorem (talk) 19:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Meh. I do now see that GuardianH was also mentioned. I still think it's questionable at best. --Onorem (talk) 19:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to let those kinds of comments stand--not in Wikipedia, on pages that anyone can see. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:44, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Say…
Why do people often ping you, in particular, for antivandal work. Obviously your talk page is protected, but plenty of other highly active admins have lower combined talkpage+ping counts than you. Mach61 (talk) 00:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't know. I don't know how to look at ping counts, BTW, but I'd like to think that ANI 2.0 delivers decent customer service. Drmies (talk) 01:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Some of us try to help Doktoro away from all of the nasty vandals and looking at xyr socks. Although then xe wanders off bowling or clubbing or bracketing.  And the Gwerz and the Goat never get a chance. Uncle G (talk) 02:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

November music
Hevenu shalom aleichem is my story today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

I proudly remember having sung in an oratorio premiere seven years ago OTD. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

More, if you like: today I have three items on the Main page, almost too much of a good thing! Bach's amazing cantata with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, the nun for the prostitutes, and Schumann's wedding gift for Clara. Also first day of vacation pics uploaded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:58, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

What a story! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Today: in memoriam Jerome Kohl who said (In Freundschaft): "and I hope that they have met again in the beyond and are making joyous music together" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 59
<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes

Issue 59, September – October 2023 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * Spotlight: Introducing a repository of anti-disinformation projects
 * Tech tip: Library access methods

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --16:15, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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KICC help
Thank you for the assist on Kenyatta International Convention Centre! I'm not sure why it got the sudden influx of attention, but I put in a RPP -- MacAddct1984 (talk &#124; contribs) 14:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing--I already protected it so you can remove that request. Looks like a local, politicized 4chan-style attack. Thank you too. Drmies (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Unconvincing, IMO. Bishonen &#124; tålk 12:42, 1 December 2023 (UTC).
 * Yup. Hey, the motherland had snow, at least a dusting of it. Are you having to ride your all-hoof drive reindeer to work yet? Drmies (talk) 13:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Requesting action on two matters
In this this thread on ANI, two accounts are confirming themselves as socks and a third is accusing editors of being ethnic haters and serbian (lol). Would you mind intervening at least on those three accounts, as I've been trying to get admin help on this for two weeks now. Additionally, requesting a range block from the page Raphael of Brooklyn from IP range 2003:c0:6f00::/43 due to persistent block evasion by. Any admin TPSs are encouraged to also respond. I've directly asked another admin but have not received a response. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Britannica
All of that said, I now feel encouraged to get a sentence into a future article that begins with "Of furniture," especially for you, Doktoro. &#9786; Uncle G (talk) 15:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well it doesn't have to be a Wikipedia article! You can always write me an ode and get it published in Harper's, which Mrs. Drmies just got us a subscription to. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It could be a Wikipedia article sooner than I thought, Doktoro.  mentions furniture. Uncle G (talk) 19:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I just looked over the AfD: my my. I didn't advocate deletion either, and I vehemently disagree that redirecting is a backdoor kind of deletion: that's a ridiculous conclusion. Redirects are by definition valid search terms, and thus possibly valid articles, and that's how many redirects end up. You've proven that article improvement can start in all kinds of ways, and by the way, I really appreciate your critique of the article, here and on Brittanica. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I just looked over the AfD: my my. I didn't advocate deletion either, and I vehemently disagree that redirecting is a backdoor kind of deletion: that's a ridiculous conclusion. Redirects are by definition valid search terms, and thus possibly valid articles, and that's how many redirects end up. You've proven that article improvement can start in all kinds of ways, and by the way, I really appreciate your critique of the article, here and on Brittanica. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Newspapers.com
Are you sure you don't have access to that link? You should be able to just click the "login via Wikipedia" button and sign in with your usual Wikipedia credentials. Newspapers.com is one of the best parts of the Wikipedia Library: it's an extremely useful source for all sorts of articles about nineteenth- and twentieth-century American topics. And all that for free! Hope you're doing well. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Extraordinary Writ, well, the miracles haven't left the world yet (sounds better in Dutch): I click again, and there it is. Yes, I'm fine, thanks--wrapping up a semester, starting a new one, and waiting on a bunch of archival material from the Johns Hopkins collection on Clifford Lanier. I hope you're well too. I don't know if I ever congratulated you on your user name--if I haven't, congrats! Drmies (talk) 18:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Just a quick note
I have fixed your closure of that AN thread. You accidentally wikilinked abot rather than used the template. Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes. Have a nice day! NW1223&lt;Howl at me&bull;My hunts&gt; 14:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

A new sockpuppet?
User:Yekled has appeared and seems to be jumping firmly into the turf of Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Tony Beach Enthusiast. Any suggestions for how this should be pursued. Alansohn (talk) 00:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * While waiting for Drmies, I've blocked the new account as obvious., nothing wrong with coming here, but another option would have been to file a report at WP:SPI.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , I would've and should've, but thanks for taking direct action. Alansohn (talk) 00:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Bbb23, thanks for revoking TPA also. It's pretty unbelievable, right, what we are asked to believe. One wonders if that person lies like that to everyone. Alansohn, I appreciate you coming by. I know you and I haven't always agreed on everything, but I am always happy to help you--and thank you for your many contributions to our beautiful project. Drmies (talk) 15:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I used the word "misrepresentations" on the user's Talk page - I initially wrote "lies" and then changed it to the euphemism. Sometimes I get in trouble if I'm too blunt.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, I hear you. I ran into a couple of cases of "miss-representation" this morning. Drmies (talk) 15:20, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Unblock request
Hello Drmies, just letting you know, this popped up on the filter log, happy editing & cheers! Jerium (talk) 00:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks--interesting. Drmies (talk) 01:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Unrelated to that but because of continued trolling in UTRS, I extended the block on the IP address range involved. Even without CU data, I know exactly who this is and en.wikipedia is far, far, far better off without them. --Yamla (talk) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks . So now it's clear where that shit came from, and I have something I can use. Drmies (talk) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yamla, please drop me a line and tell me what you know. I reported to ArbCom already. Drmies (talk) 01:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Will email shortly. --Yamla (talk) 01:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Does "Camp" count as beginning with "C"?
It's happening again, Doktoro. Do you know any Arizonianians? On balance, I think that this is brought to us by the letter "P". Uncle G (talk) 16:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * &rarr; Hanwell Park
 * &rarr; Tucson Mountain Park/Camp Pima

Administrators' newsletter – December 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2023).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Ganesha811 · JPxG
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Ajpolino · Lourdes · Mairi · RockMFR · Somno · WilyD
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →



CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Beeblebrox · Opabinia regalis

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Beeblebrox · Opabinia regalis

Guideline and policy news
 * Following a talk page discussion, the Administrators' accountability policy has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have notifications (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.

Arbitration
 * Following a motion, the Extended Confirmed Restriction has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
 * The Arbitration Committee has announced a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
 * Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:53, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Beavers
I just saw someone cite an Arcadia Publishing book, Doktoro. Anyway, whilst I am getting over the shock of that, you should fill out a form, include a self-addressed return envelope, and send off by air-mail to those people in the University of Alabarmy. I hear that they have a dirty postcard collection. https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32227 The rest of us have to make do with TikTok. https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/538109855450680648/ Apparently the University of Georgie has a book that can help one go clubbing, too. Important to go clubbing to maintain that youth cred, Doktoro. Don't say that I never help you with the youth cred. Uncle G (talk) 03:12, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, I cited three of them. I own one of those books; my house is in it. ;) The last one is confusing; it has different dates: 1904 for construction, 1926 for the burning, and it puts the old clubhouse on Mulberry rather than on Carter Hill Road. So I assume it was on the corner, where now the oil place and the Sonic are. I wouldn't be bothered by it but I have more faith in Mary Ann Neeley than in the other authors--fun fact, we live in the house formerly owned by Neeley's daughter (and by Wayne Greenhaw). The club, old and new, is around the corner from where I live, Uncle: you should come by next time. Liam was doing his homework while I was writing this up and he kind of lit up when he realized how many things, historical and otherwise, were coming together right here--and Clifford L.(anier) was a member of the Beauvoir Club also. I'm working on a biography of Clifford; keeps me off the street. And I just submitted a proposal to a conference, where basically I'll read my Wikipedia draft, haha, but with more jokes. As for the link, I don't know if a picture was supposed to show up there; I know there's a couple of them in the Alabama Archives, but I was planning on going to Hoole Special Collections anyway. Apparently they have a stained glass window with Robert E. Lee in a King Arthur pose! You should come with me. I'll buy you lunch at that cheap Mexican place, if it's still standing. I barely recognize my old campus anymore. Drmies (talk) 03:21, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I can only surmise that the Alabarmy people don't let the Internet see their dirty postcard collection so that they can charge people for parking. Some of them are from a "Mary", too. I expect that it's one of those pseudonyms used on dodgy dirty WWW sites. https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32277  https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/28297 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33485 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33478 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32234 This King Arthur: Does xe have a YouTube channel? Uncle G (talk) 03:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * TikTok, Uncle. Ping me when you get here; I'll take you to Hamburger King. Cash only! Drmies (talk) 04:09, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that your Mary has read some old 1960s book of dirty pictures, Doktoro. https://archive.org/details/montgpics1963pion/page/130/mode/2up Uncle G (talk) 04:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I can only surmise that the Alabarmy people don't let the Internet see their dirty postcard collection so that they can charge people for parking. Some of them are from a "Mary", too. I expect that it's one of those pseudonyms used on dodgy dirty WWW sites. https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32277  https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/28297 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33485 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33478 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32234 This King Arthur: Does xe have a YouTube channel? Uncle G (talk) 03:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * TikTok, Uncle. Ping me when you get here; I'll take you to Hamburger King. Cash only! Drmies (talk) 04:09, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that your Mary has read some old 1960s book of dirty pictures, Doktoro. https://archive.org/details/montgpics1963pion/page/130/mode/2up Uncle G (talk) 04:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Doktoro, did you know &hellip; Of course you might only believe some of this if you trust Sam, a professor of Buffaloes. Uncle G (talk) 05:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * &hellip; that Patty Berg once went clubbing for a Western?
 * &hellip; that Merton Roland "Rod" Nachman Jr the lawyer for the plaintiff in New York Times Co. v. Sullivan was not invited to go clubbing because he was a Jew? Or that he loved Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin and was associated with a bar?
 * &hellip; that the bar didn't let Solomon Seay's nine-year-old daughter Ettra get on the bus to go clubbing in a US$40 dress?
 * &hellip; that Frank Minis Johnson very seldomly went clubbing, and his wife Ruth didn't even know the rules?



Buffaloes
On no, Doktoro! What is User:Drmies/Rod Nachman all about? Are we supposed to be believing this Buffalo stuff? Uncle G (talk) 08:04, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

And now we know that we didn't even know about Newman v. Alabama and Pugh v. Locke (all one big subject) which were big news in Alabarmy some years ago. Uncle G (talk) 14:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Bowls
Now all of the people going clubbing are going bowling, Doktoro. The re-listing of has also reminded me that I needed to ask you who this Sandra person was that you were going on about, and how that's relevant to all of the squat dance videos on TikTok. Youth cred, Doktoro! Uncle G (talk) 08:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC) TikTokers such as #ErikaHaber and #LesleyMilne and #KarenRyan think that this stuff is "epic". But is it really? Uncle G (talk) 08:32, 15 November 2023 (UTC) Having now used the geologist, I can now improve upon the aforegiven: This episode of User talk:Drmies is brought to you by the letter "b", Doktoro. Uncle G (talk) 09:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) KarenRyan even talks about an "epic cycle", which is strange because there are no bicycles in the squat dance videos.
 * I will say that I have great respect for those squat dancers. The leg exercises in my morning routine are always the hardest for me. No wonder that the poor guy in A Shot in the Dark needed all that vodka. Drmies (talk) 13:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Vodka doesn't explain the TikTokers and your Sandra. &#9786; Uncle G (talk) 03:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about the girl I was in love with in my first year of high school? Drmies (talk) 03:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know, Doktoro. None of #ErikaHaber and #LesleyMilne and #KarenRyan cover your Sandra's love life.  Although since Sandra liked Joe, I'm not sure that you would have stood much of a chance.  Joe would no doubt have made "arrangements" for a romantic rival, so you probably dodged a bullet there.  Uncle G (talk) 04:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you know that the Bowling off Balls had no Balls and the Bowlings were on Balls and Buck?

Combs
I have found something beginning with "C", Doktoro! Unfortunately, it is "cryptic crossword clue". Uncle G (talk) 23:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you know &hellip; that Lennut is "tunnel" spelled backwards?

Someone you blocked
Hi, Drmies - I'm writing to advise you that VRT received information confirming the ID for a user you blocked. See Ticket#2023120510011609. He has requested to be unblocked. I explained WP:COI and for him to please be patient as these things take time. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"> Atsme 💬 📧 18:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , OK, thanks--but the block was a simple username block. They need to request a new user name, but I don't know how that paperwork goes. I didn't talk about a COI though it's obvious, but as far as I'm concerned he can be unblocked as soon as he gets a new name. Drmies (talk) 17:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Drmies but the user wants to register under his real name which is the name you blocked. That is his real name - he is that person. VRTS has a valid ID to confirm. Am I overlooking something? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"> Atsme 💬 📧 18:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Atsme--no, not at all: I blocked for the username. I didn't block for a COI because that COI was obvious, so I don't think anyone needs my approval to go ahead and unblock, if conditions are met. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:04, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

MelroseReporter
Hi, Drmies! I'm confused as to what's going on with this user. Apparently they were unblocked by the arbitration committee, but I can't find the discussion anywhere. Shungite is on my watchlist (as are many articles with pseudoscience arguments). Additionally, they are making a complete mess of the talk page. OhNo itsJamie Talk 14:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * FYI - a few minutes ago, another user issued MelroseReporter a "final and only" warning over edits to Shungite. Geoff &#124; Who, me? 14:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard.That happened around 18 hours ago. Doug Weller  talk 21:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, kind of a mess, huh. Drmies (talk) 14:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

About your warning to me
As you've said that I have to stop wasting my time reverting and warning an LTA, I'll definitely stop for now, since I might be blocked temporarily for "disruptive editing". I'll probably email you some further details. – 64andtim  ( talk ) 18:26, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a warning, and you wouldn't be blocked. But giving them low-level warnings is kind of senseless; reporting them to AIV immediately is the right course of action. And reverting--ah well, they get off on that. When I see them make such an edit, I block first and revert later. Drmies (talk) 22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Me, I block first and then reblock later. Sometimes, if I want to make it more solid, I block a third time based on the principle that the more times one does it the more people believe it's deserved. Like strong opposes. Ever seen a strongest oppose? Looks and acts a bit like a bull elk.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Meh. We only get half pay for reblocks, a measure I strongly opposed. Drmies (talk) 23:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

English Professor Vacuum
It turns out, Doktoro, that a is not something from The Far Side. Did you know this? I thought that with that and the we might avoid the English professors. But via, Cristiano Broccias, , has snuck in. Uncle G (talk) 02:15, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you know that yesterday I was looking through the horse collar articles? Drmies (talk) 15:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No, Doktoro; but this does explain a lot. &#9786; Did you know that there's a connection between User:Drmies/Gwerz an Aotrou Nann and Clerk Colvill? Uncle G (talk) 17:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I have just cited, Doktoro to help the Hindi Belt become clear. I apologize. Uncle G (talk) 11:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC) Oh no! I just cited. That's Gallifreyan for something. I dare not translate it. Let us hope that we do not have to write about Bubble Plays. Uncle G (talk) 12:11, 4 November 2023 (UTC) Doktoro, I have just done a search for "stalin dance troupe chicken feast" and I blame you. Bringing in the Russian professors when you could be writing about proper Gallifreyan subjects like the Bubble Plays. Uncle G (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC) And now I have a professor of communication studies, Doktoro, and a way to rescue the Hip-hop magazines (AFD discussion) article from deletion, 15 years too late, thanks to having to research my rationale for. Uncle G (talk) 16:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

up the Creeks without an English professor
I am learning so many things about Eastern Fried Chicklenland with just geologists and a sociology professor, Doktoro. Sociology! Uncle G (talk) 12:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you know that Dice may have been Dicey and close to Lost, and came and went, but still exists today?undefined
 * Did you know that whilst lots of things are Troublesome at Troublesome Creek, one of them was intended to be Boggs?undefined
 * Did you know that a Couch wanted Agawam or Wigwam but said Avawam by mistake, and it was moved around by some Fields?undefined
 * Did you know that Darfork is confusing given the Dark Fork of the Trace Fork where "Danger Nick" owned land?undefined

I don't know what Possum Trot is, Doktoro, and the sociology professor was singularly unhelpful about the matter. Uncle G (talk) 02:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

If only and  and  were free content, Doktoro! I could have used an image halfway down the page, to show what those Rowdy people from Eastern Fried Chicklenland were truly like. Commons is remarkably bereft of pictures of anything on these creeks. You couldn't just pop over to Troublesome and take some quick free content photographs, could you? It's closer to that Beaver club than the Gold Coast is to Sydney. You could practically walk there. Certainly, Google Maps supplies a walking route. &#9786; Uncle G (talk) 02:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, if only--but that's a bit of a drive for me. Murder Creek (Alabama) is a bit closer, and there's a distillery, supposedly. I'll check it out in the spring. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Take a copy of with you to read on the bus, Doktoro.  And .  They're by one of those university presses.  You can even source the co&ouml;rdinates from the latter, and write us a better article.  Uncle G (talk) 18:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Uncle G, I can't even see a table of contents for the Noee book. Our library doesn't have it, and neither does Big Auburn. It'll have to wait, I'm afraid. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * They want to keep it secret from you, Doktoro. Maybe it will be available when you go on your trip to Castleberry in the spring, which Google Maps tells me has a Dollar General store that you can visit after seeing the Creek.  Uncle G (talk) 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Uncle G, I can't even see a table of contents for the Noee book. Our library doesn't have it, and neither does Big Auburn. It'll have to wait, I'm afraid. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * They want to keep it secret from you, Doktoro. Maybe it will be available when you go on your trip to Castleberry in the spring, which Google Maps tells me has a Dollar General store that you can visit after seeing the Creek.  Uncle G (talk) 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I have been learning yet more from the sociology professor. Uncle G (talk) 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you know that none of the suggested Balls at Balls were allowed to be Balls?undefined

It is very daunting to expand the Kentucky Geological Survey article, Doktoro. I knew that the sociology professor had well over three hundred books, but it turns out that the geologists give him a run for their money, and have at least 91 books of their own. There's a picture of them in the new source for the article, that would be an excellent addition to the article were it out of copyright. WikiProject Kentucky/GNIS cleanup might outlive us all. Uncle G (talk) 10:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

an English American Professor and an American English Professor
I found some more professors, Doktoro. Thomas Ruys Smith is an American professor who is English, at UAE. Peter Larsen Thorslev was an English professor who was American, at UCLA. You can help to save Byron, Doktoro! Uncle G (talk) 11:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC) The Lurkers might be amused at Doktoro basing the article rewrite off the text of the AFD discussion. Uncle G (talk) 05:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Something wrong here?
To my feeling the article CHON is by cut-and-paste moved to CHNOPS. I think the move is correct, but the method certainly not, as the history is left behind. Does did need action? The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 21:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not correct, no. User:MikeSadler11, please do not make such edits. Drmies (talk) 23:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sheesh what a mess. Apparently MikeSadler had a bunch of edits in a sandbox, added that to CHNOPS, and then simply redirected CHON without a by-your-leave. correctly restored CHON, and maybe CHON should be merged into CHNOPS--but someone is going to have to fix the actual article. I'm going to move CHON to CHNOPs, but it'll be the CHON version that's current--and if MikeSadler wants to restore their own edits, they'll have to do that: I'm not leaving their version in place. Drmies (talk) 23:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

You lot and your rainbow disco balls. I'm going to wait until the full initialism gets settled. I'm sure that there's going to be a "++" at the end eventually. &#9786; In the meantime, Talk:Bracket is calling you, Doktoro, as you were the one that didn't like the table. Uncle G (talk) 05:11, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Not gonna object to prod but...
"It's a pond"? Really? That pond is non-notable but some others sure are.

Also, just out of curiosity, may I ask why you've indef-ECPed your own talk page?

Happy holidays!

With cheerful irreverence, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 11:28, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

That mail thing again
Am not a fan of the template, so here's a handwritten version. Hope your week is going well. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I saw your email; I'll read it after class. I'm teaching Sunjata and am looking for Tassey Condé: the version of the epic in my "new" Norton is totally different from the one I've taught before. I did grade two dozen drafts yesterday, BTW, but we have another few classes to do. Ugh gotta write the final exams too. Drmies (talk) 15:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. You lead an interesting life. I'll read up on Sundiata after my current assignment. Give me a seventeenth century ship design or the history of Captain Cook's goat (or I guess the whereabouts of the helmet of Messapus) and I'll bore everyone to tears over many hours of detail. Ask me about actual literature and I'm a disappointingly blank slate. -- Euryalus (talk)
 * Captain Cook's goat? I'm all ears. (But not for many hours.) Softlavender (talk) 12:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha! Okay, the short version:
 * Among the many things Samuel Wallis took with him when he circumnavigated the world was a goat. Goats were semi-common on eighteenth century navy ships as they gave milk and ate any old rubbish, and you could eat them if the rations ran out. After two arduous years at sea Wallis arrived back in England in mid-1768 and let his goat go free at Portsmouth Dockyard. It was the first goat ever to circumnavigate the world.
 * By chance Captain Cook was just then departing for his own multi-year circumnavigation of the world in search of Australia, and seeing Wallis' stray goat about the place, just kidnapped it and took it with him. As times got tough during the voyage, Cook and his crew ate every other animal on board. They were attacked by Maoris in New Zealand, shipwrecked on the Barrier Reef, struck by lightning in Indonesia, and crippled by malaria on the way home. By the time they returned to England most people had long since considered them dead. But home they came, bringing with them news, curios and Wallis' goat which was (and probably still is) the only goat to circumnavigate the world twice.
 * Cook then immediately left on his second voyage. His crew were paid out and forgotten, his ship became a timber hauler and was eventually sunk as a breakwater. And the goat? It was voted the thanks of Parliament (yes seriously) and taken home by Cook's wife where by all reports it grazed contentedly in the garden and was the subject of occasional local tourism. Its ultimate fate is not recorded, but I suspect it eventually became a stew. Wherever it went, it is without doubt the world's premier goat explorer.
 * And yes, the above sounds like fiction but there are numerous reliable sources for all of it. Also a thriving cottage industry in children's books about Captain Cook's goat (see google for examples). It was always on my to do list for a Wikipedia article, but I never found the time. Anyway, there's the story. Hope you're glad you asked. -- Euryalus (talk) 13:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha, I'm glad Softlavender asked. Thanks! That's awesome. Drmies (talk) 13:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a very cool story! Also, very funny that the goat is a celeb in the world of children's books. Maybe he will get a movie someday, à la Master and Commander. Can animals get knighted? I'm surprised this goat wasn't knighted, or made an officer of the Admiralty. Softlavender (talk) 20:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As we all know, once started it is difficult to stop Doktoro from going on about K-Pop and suchlike. Just witness the section below this one!  Gwerz, short shrift; professor of techno music, a whole external linkfarm.  &#9786; If you like history, though, you could do worse than sort out Draft:Battle of Jassar Bridge (1965), which is ancient history from 1965, which Doktoro should keep at arms length for the sake of youth cred.  If it pre-dates Jada Facer's first YouTube video, Doktoro doesn't want to know.  Reading the sources, until I was dizzy from too many sentences that included more numbers than words, with the 115th advancing on the 3rd with II Corinthians, it certainly appears that this isn't quite what this is called in the history books. I think that a little brown box is in order, at this point, as well. Uncle G (talk) 19:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Bleats
{{divbox|brown||

The Well-Travelled Goat was a goat that accompanied both James Cook on the Endeavour on the first voyage of James Cook, and Samuel Wallis on the Dolphin, around the world.{{sfn|McLynn|2011|p=114}}{{sfn|CEJ|1874|p=47}}

It was amongst several other animals on the Endeavour loaded as livestock.{{sfn|McLynn|2011|p=114}} Sheep, pigs, goats, and chickens were on board to provide meat, eggs, and milk.{{sfn|Hamilton|2020|p=56}}

It was not the only traveller with Cook to have previously travelled on the Dolphin, which also included the ship's master Robert Molyneuax, ship's master's mates Charles Clerke, Richard Pickersgill, and Francis Wilkinson, and the lieutenant John Gore.{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=57}}

It had a Latin poem, a distich, written for it by Samuel Johnson at the request of Joseph Banks, which Banks had engraved upon the goat's collar:{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216–217}}{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=153}} {{blockquote| Perpetui, ambita bis terra, premia lactis Haec habet, altrici Capra secunda Jovis. Translated to English this reads "The globe twice circled, this the Goat, the second to the nurse of Jove, is thus rewarded for her never-failing milk."{{sfn|Beaglehole|1992|p=291}}
 * Samuel Johnson{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216–217}}}}

Johnson's biographer gave a somewhat lengthier and looser translation, attributed to "a friend":{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=153}}{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}} {{blockquote| In fame scarce second to the nurse of Jove, This Goat, who twice the world had traversed round, Deserving both her master’s care and love, Ease and perpetual pasture now has found.
 * James Boswell, The Life of Samuel Johnson{{sfn|Stones|2022|p=392}}{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}}}}

John Wilson Croker noted in a critical edition of Boswell's biography that "[n]either the original nor the translation will add much to the poetical fame of Mr. Boswell's friends. The Latin seems particularly stiff and poor."{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}}

Oskar Spate observed that the goat's fate was more fortunate than that of Amalthea, the aforementioned "nurse of Jove".{{sfn|Spate|1988|p=347}} The goat was much celebrated by newspapers such as the General Evening Post upon the return of the Endeavour, whose correspondent for the voyage claimed that "[s]he never went dry during the whole of the voyage" and asserted that "we mean to reward her services by placing her in a good English pasture for the rest of her life".{{sfn|Moore|2018|p=355}}{{sfn|Mackay|1949|p=17}} It lived out the rest of its life as a "pensioner" at Greenwich Hospital and died at Mile End on 1772-04-28.{{sfn|CEJ|1874|p=47}}{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216–217}}

In 2006 Jackie French wrote a fictionalized account of the voyage for children, based upon the real events, that was partly narrated from the view of the goat, entitled The Goat who Sailed the World.{{sfn|ANMM|2012}}{{sfn|Blandford|2010}}

Seasons Greetings!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#00A86B; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">Happy Holidays text.png

Thanks
Thank you for snowballing my AfD. Greg L (talk) 23:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)