User talk:ChristianColde

RE: Moves
Sorry that I wasn't clear in my revert reason. What I meant was, that you need to prove the moves are notable by providing a reliable third party source (see WP:RS). This is required as users constantly add moves that they made up in their backyards (they exist, but aren't worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia). In regard to the "sources" you provided, any wiki cannot be used (as any user can add whatever move they make up one day). I'll accept the moves referenced by Death Valley Driver (although that technically doesn't pass the Wikipedia RS requirements), so those can stay. The youtubes don't count either because the person who made them is not an expert in the area and could easily have been mistaken. The youtube video for the Wing Tearer proves that there is a move called that in the game, but doesn't mention anything about professional wrestling. Nikki ♥  311  02:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Too restrictive!
The youtubes of the professional wrestlers THEMSELVES need to be accepted: these are legitimate professionals with their own entry in wikipedia!

I disagree with your reasons over why luchawiki.org couldn't be used as a source. The pictures I provided from luchawiki.org are all of professional quality and all depict the holds mentioned performed by wrestlers earning their living through professional wrestling (actual professional wrestlers). Because all the pictures were done by professional photographs picturing paid workers, I'd like to know why else luchawiki.org could not be used as a reference.

The website I gave (http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/bbbowm.htm) has been abandoned since 2001 (and had multiple mistranslations; for example, their listing for the reverse bow and arrow is actually that of the bow and arrow hold proper). Similarly, wrestlingencyclopedia.com has closed down; should all the moves using the site as a reference be invalidated? And forget about published print: there are no more "new" wrestling repertories and all that is left is to showcase the moves as they appear. If I can provide proof of a move used in a professional wrestling context, I would like to showcase it in the wiki. The list of legitimate reference is growing thinner by the years and I'd like the list of credible sources to at least include:

- Youtube videos of actual wrestlers executing the move in question.

- http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/bbbowm.htm (we agree on that, but this site must be used intelligently)

- luchawiki.org

I'm open to discussion, but i feel I've given ample reason why to take these three sources seriously. Otherwise, I'll do my own reversions tomorrow.

ChristianColde (talk) 03:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Reply
If you'd like, you can bring it up at WT:PW, where many discussions regarding professional wrestling articles take place, to get some more opinions. I suggest you discuss the edits first before re-adding them, because I am following policy be removing them (WP:V, WP:RS, WP:N, and WP:CITE), and by re-adding them without understanding that, you are just trying to start an edit war. Now on to the sourcing issue:

Just because a picture depicts a move, it doesn't name it or describe it in words, and by doing so yourself, you are violating the policy of original research. Youtube cannot be linked to in Wikipedia because of copyright issues (see WP:YOUTUBE), but even if it could, there are many issues why it wouldn't be credible...the name would have to be mentioned by the wrestler or announce team, it would have to be clear exactly what they are doing, and even considering all of that, announcers mess up move names all of the time (ex. Jim Ross). Like I said, luchawiki is not reliable because any user can add information, and photos (even if taken by professionals) do not depict the whole move in question being performed nor do they name them. If you would like a list of sources deemed reliable by the professional wrestling project go to WikiProject_Professional_wrestling/Style_guide. There are tons of wrestling interviews and books that mention moves, so that could help you find a source. Just because a page has shut down, doesn't mean what it had can't be used, but it should only be used if the site meets the criteria at WP:RS (they have an established fact checking system). Lastly, please reply on my talk page, as I had no idea that you had replied back and only checked here on a whim. Nikki ♥  311  20:16, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

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