User talk:Doncram/Archive 28

The Gauntlet of Peace Prize



 * Very amusing, thanks! That was from editor Carptrash. -- do  ncr  am  16:09, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

law firms in Africa
Hi, just wondering if you have seen this: User:Purple Duke/sandbox2. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks!, Ottawahitech, for calling that to my attention. In this version now, it has not been edited by South African editor User:Purple Duke since 2012 besides by your addition just now, and it appears to be mainspace-ready or nearly so.  To go to ALN (law firm) or ALN (South African law firm network) or the like (and to be mentioned at ALN (disambiguation). This relates to List of law firms in Africa (now inappropriately a redirect to a U.S.-only list, and there was Articles for deletion/List of law firms and Articles for deletion/List of law firms (2nd nomination) in 2006, which reached perhaps-okay-then-but-fundamentally-wrong delete decision) and List of law firms in Uganda (and Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive840 and Articles for deletion/List of law firms in Uganda which deleted it) and individual-firm AFDs a couple years ago that you and I participated in.  It's good to get back to this area, it was and is very under-developed.  When I get a chance I will look into checking and perhaps updating this article and more, and/or please go ahead further yourself.
 * Hmm, to ensure credit is given where due, in getting the article into mainspace, should the sandbox itself be moved to mainspace? I think so, so that the creation and development in edit history is retained, but maybe administrative tool use is required to handle this right (to include just the relevant part of sandbox's edit history).  I see the author previously used the sandbox to develop another article that they copy-pasted into mainspace  and then blanked and reused it.  Presumably they would have copy-pasted this too, when ready, to mainspace, and by their doing so would get the creation "credit" properly then.   Hmm, I see the author did edit a South African law firm's page on one day in 2016, and in December 2015 was editing at Big Five (law firms) in South Africa.  Perhaps we/I should try contacting them by email to see if they would make the move to mainspace, first, as that would require no technical adjustments and would be good in other ways.
 * How on earth did you find this? :) I am glad you keep doing good work like this, thanks again for bringing me back.  Cheers, -- do  ncr  am  16:51, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I found it when i created the category to which it was already pre-added, amazing isn't it? More later... Ottawahitech (talk) 14:48, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Re your comment:  (sorry for going off on a tangent):
 * A couple of days ago I discovered a dusty article about Halogen Software to which I added a few categories and since its talkpage was a redlink, went in to put some WikiProject banners on. To my surprise I saw that the talk page had been deleted as an orphaned talk page on 22 December 2007 which suggests that an earlier version of the article existed and was deleted on or before this date. The current article was created on 2 February 2016, so there must be at least one other version in the wiki-trash can. I can’t help but wonder if there is useful information that we are not seeing, let alone credit not given… Ottawahitech (talk) 14:14, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * FYI Found some more debris and posted about it on User_talk:Fayenatic_london. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2016 (UTC)please ping me
 * FYI More on at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women Ottawahitech (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2016 (UTC)please ping me

BBC 12-hour Editathon - large influx of new pages & drafts expected
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Crazy Horse, Stockholm
I'm not convinced that this is notable, but being the previous tenant of a place now rented by a local restaurant in the Vapiano chain doesn't really make it relevant as a redirect to Vapiano, as it wouldn't be mentioned there. It could possibly be redirected to Anna Sjödin, where it is mentioned. --Hegvald (talk) 12:59, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings
Happy Holidays text.png Hello Doncram: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, North America1000 15:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Kale Barnster?
For appreciating my remarks at Bound Together Bookstore Collective, thus moving radical politics forward by allowing humor as a part of it. after all, "if i can't laugh, i dont want to be a part of your revolution"-not attributed to H.L. Mencken.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 21:13, 18 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, i like kale! Methinks you take credit for "makes us tools of the state look like slackers"?  Yes, that is great, i obviously definitely appreciated it, though i had no idea you were the pundit.  FYI, i was on a binge creating several entries for new Category:Anarchist bookstores, my little way of responding to Articles for deletion/Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse. :) -- do  ncr  am  01:57, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Western false front architecture
Cite error.Xx236 (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York)


A tag has been placed on Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. ɱ (talk) · vbm  · coi) 07:04, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Resolved by an editor removing the Speedy Deletion tag, after I contested the suggestion at Talk:Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) and I added some material to the article. -- do ncr  am  20:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Best Wishes
  do ncr  am ,

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Your draft article, User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 16:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Before I got this notice, the draft-space article was deleted 21 minutes later, at 17:14. Frankly that was rather too abruptly done, when it is just a matter of a dormant draft article.  If I recall correctly, it is about a former Carnegie library in which IMO makes it marginally notable, which has further been repurposed into a literacy center / community center which also IMO makes it marginally notable, although it is not listed on any historic register.  However, I also recall that I had not found much about it online, and the draft article wasn't particularly good yet, despite the fact it has some potential as a valid Wikipedia topic.  Requesting, by this ping to User:Sphilbrick, could it be restored, please, to my userspace (with edit history intact), at User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning?  I might (or might not) get around to developing it further, perhaps not as a separate article but incorporating it in a list-article of literacy centers which seemed to be needed (related to some AFD(s) about a different literacy center or two). -- do  ncr  am  20:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * It would reasonable to have, corresponding to Category:Organizations promoting literacy, a List of organizations promoting literacy, which could include mention of this one, including mention that it is hosted in a former Carnegie library. -- do ncr  am  21:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Mexico merges/Feryeah13
Your comment and a look at contributions helped me to find that there are more redundant articles, most of which appear to be very poor translations from eswiki, such as Ahualulco Del Sonido 13, San Luis Potosi to Ahualulco. Some have been redirected. Others that were new to enwiki remain but in horrendous condition. This UAEH one was among the better articles. Raymie (t • c) 06:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

TNT
You have now made this comment twice here and here. This is a FRINGE position and if you really believe it you should take me to ANI for my nomination here and followup here. In fact I urge you to do that. Jytdog (talk) 22:21, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Great, you want to have a knock-down drag-out fight. Seems consistent with calls for wp:TNT being wp:disruption.  Of course wp:TNT is an essay, not a guideline or policy.  I suppose it would be good to counter it with another essay, perhaps wp:BlowUpTNT or wp:TNTTNT? :) -- do  ncr  am  22:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, thank you for the inspiration. Created that essay, up to this version as of now.  Funny that two calls for TNT and my response within Articles for deletion/Pressure point should be invoked;  that AFD was closed "Keep". -- do  ncr  am  01:51, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I don't want to have a big fight but you are accusing me of being disruptive and calling for drastic action on the basis of my !vote, which basically sucks. The fact that an AfD went your way is not excuse for that kind of behavior toward other editors.  I recommend you knock it off. Jytdog (talk) 02:03, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey, I am sorry that you got the impression that my comment was directed at you. In one of the two articles, i.e. at the Nyala Rinpoche article, you did not invoke TNT, so my little tirade there was not about you at all.  I also have not been following you and I have no idea if you use the TNT argument elsewhere.  FYI, i have made approximately the same little speech in a bunch of AFDs, maybe a dozen or more.  It's not just my thinking;  I have seen it expressed more strongly by others.  However, given your reaction I will worry if my statements are too strong and will consider if I should indeed "knock it off".  I don't want to make Wikipedia a lousy experience for anyone.  On the other hand, I happen to think that AFDs in general / usually / often are lousy experiences for the contributors whose work is being nominated for deletion, and I think it is important to stop the madness.  Maybe the distinction I need to make is to be sure to call the act of citing TNT bad, or call the TNT reasoning fallacious, or otherwise be clear that I am not attacking a person who invoked the TNT argument (which does exist as an argument that everyone has seen used).  I will pay attention to this.  Thank you for the feedback. -- do  ncr  am  02:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Chief Actuary


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Chief Actuary".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:03, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Graduate Students Association


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Graduate Students Association".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of charitable nonprofits in the United States


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of charitable nonprofits in the United States".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of female fashion photographers


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of female fashion photographers".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of women artists


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of women artists".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:49, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:The Middletown Press


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "The Middletown Press".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 03:08, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * FYI, rather than delete this draft article I decided to adopt it. It is now at User:Grondemar/Drafts/The Middletown Press. –Grondemar 06:02, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It was developed some by Grondemar I think, and I moved it to mainspace The Middletown Press and they agreed that was okay. -- do ncr  am  19:31, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Hacienda San Francisco
There's some "crap" at the bottom of the article. I'm not sure what template you were trying to do, so I didn't fix it. Also, there is a CS1 error in one of the refs. Not sure if you can see it. Add to your .css file: Bgwhite (talk) 06:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The stray bits at the article got removed.
 * I don't know what/where is my ".css file", however. Hmm, wp:CSS leads to Help:User style.  Hmm, i think this is about creating a file at User:Doncram/vector.css, okay will try that. -- do  ncr  am  21:57, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, creating that works. Now at the Hacienda San Francisco article, the NRHP document reference shows "CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list". -- do  ncr  am  22:01, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Dashes between person names in house names
Re this edit, I remain uncertain on how to handle this common redlink situation. I agree with your point, that it's more likely that a new article will be named with hyphens between names, since most editors aren't really very aware of dashes and such. On the other hand, it seems wrong to leave that malstyled version visible, especially alongside the dash-fixed ones. I've got the same problem in some other such lists. Unclear how to proceed; wouldn't it be nice to have an advance directive for redirects or moves or something? Dicklyon (talk) 04:39, 13 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I suspect it comes up almost exclusively with respect to places listed on the National Register, for those like you who want to proceed with replacing hyphens by dashes. The problem is you can't create a redirect from the hyphenated version to the dashed title, because a bot will delete the redirect.  I wonder if there is any way the bot could be stopped, or if the relevant policy (that redirects to redlinks are not allowed) could be changed.  But that would be quite the longshot.
 * One alternative is just to create the article at the hyphenated name and then move it, which I think is good because that creates the redlink and ensures all current and future intended links will work. However some editors at WikiProject NRHP will likely hate that, and it is possible some will hate you personally, and enough so to harass you and create hate/attack pages and open spurious ANI proceedings and so on, for years and years and years. :)
 * A less-good alternative would be for you to click on the hyphenated name, and then "what links here", to find all current inbound links, and go change those. Changing those is presumably something you want to do.  But that doesn't stop people from creating the article at the hyphenated name and there being a disconnect, and for a possible duplicative article being created at the dashed title.
 * Another approach, applied since 2010 by me, at Talk:List of RHPs in OR, specifically at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Oregon, is to create a worklist of all the pairs of two title versions, and monitor that, if/when one turns blue then make the move or create the necessary redirect.  If you wanted to go with the worklist approach I would support that and take on the monitoring for years and years. -- do  ncr  am  05:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That last looks like a clever approach. And you create that from what?  Names you find in existing lists? Just ones you've changed to en dashes? Dicklyon (talk) 05:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Here are the other redlink ones I've messed with recently:

[moved to central monitoring page -- doncram]

If you're volunteering to put these on your list and watch them, that's great, and I'll add to it if I do more. If not, I can make such a page to watch myself. These are from all different states, from disambig pages like Jackson House. Dicklyon (talk) 06:47, 14 January 2017 (UTC)


 * (ec) I don't think I have ever created a title using dashes, by moving or otherwise. I don't have an opinion about dashes vs. hyphens;  my only wish is to maintain the elaborate system of disambiguation pages, NRHP list-articles, and related list-articles like List of Elks buildings and List of Presbyterian churches in the United States, which gets messed up if any "outsider" starts changing redlink topic names. :)
 * To answer directly: From "names in existing lists", I guess, starting with ones where I noticed the lists of NRHP places being edited by someone to use the en dashes. Then I looked further to other NRHP place lists in the area where I could find hyphenated titles which they would likely become an issue.  And I may have found more on related disambiguation pages, which are lists of sorts, too.  The goal is to list article pairings where a MOS enthusiast either has already changed, or is likely to change, one of the redlinks.  If these are listed and monitored, we can fix the damage done, in effect.   Honestly, it causes work and it doesn't help any readers, if redlinks are changed to use dashes rather than hyphens, IMO.  It does help if you create the articles, and make the redirect from hyphen to dash forms.  But you or some other enthusiast aren't completely wrong and cannot be stopped from changing redlinks without making articles as far as I know, so I figure the best thing is if you make the work lighter by contributing to a common monitoring list whenever you do make such a change.
 * Okay, I have gone and set up a monitoring page at WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Hyphens vs. dashes issues. And announced this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. -- do  ncr  am  07:18, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Postal templates
I have commented on the deletion of List of United States Post Offices but apropos of the Postage stamps of the United States template I have done a lot of work slowly reorganising it in a personal sandbox and would appreciate your comments. If it is worth keeping I think something like this structure is what is needed and a useful replacement for the current mess. Related items are grouped together in a sensible way that stamp collectors or postal historians think though it still needs some work but I'm not going any further just yet. In this instance there no single list or category that contains them all. ww2censor (talk) 23:56, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Dedicated content people do their thing in solitude?
Hi, As one of the best content creators around,  I wonder if you have the time to comment on the subject dedicated content people do their thing in solitude? I would be curious to find your take on it. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:36, 20 January 2017 (UTC)please ping me

When an IMDB link appears
...only as an External link, and not in any way tied explicitly to the content of an article, in particular, a BLP article that is otherwise completely devoid of sources, the appropriate tag is not the IMDB tag, but rather the BLP unreferenced tag. Tags are to be as specific as possible, and External links, per WP:VERIFY, are not citations or references. Moreover, (i) the BLP ureferenced tag posts articles devoid of citations in places where they might get the attention they need to have the WP:VERIFY violation dealt with, and (ii) it presents, within the tag, links to tools that can help follow-on editors find sources for the unsourced article material. That is, the unreferenced tag is both more accurate and appropriate, but it is also more helpful to editors coming to the article. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:38, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Raburn-Casteel House
Not sure what you meant with: It has a &#91;&#91;single-pen rear ell attached to the original house. Bgwhite (talk) 08:35, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for inquiring. An "ell" is an addition that makes the building L-shaped.  A single pen is a log cabin unit:  a rectangle of four log walls.  I revised it to to be less jargon-y:  "a single pen addition attached to the rear of the original house". -- do  ncr  am  14:54, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Friendship Baptist Church (Washington, D.C.)
Since you started the article, let me ask you something. This is what the church building looks like now. It's an event space called Blind Whino Arts Club. Do you think I should swap my old 2008 photo for the new one, and if so, is the mural considered artwork that needs to have a fair use license? I'm not sure about this one. The description in these photos say it was commissioned. APK whisper in my ear  06:01, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, glad you're improving that. Funny name of current enterprise.  About murals, I rather think the artist/owner is putting it out there for the world to see and usually would be happy for images of it to be spread further, but probably technically it is copyrighted and commons editors would get around to seeing it deleted, if you upload a photo specifically displaying it.  Ideally you'd contact them and get permission released, by a wp:OTRS request.  Although also in a wide-angle shot from farther away, the entire mural might be covered, as long as it doesn't seem to be the focus of the shot.  For Bound Together Bookstore Collective in San Francisco, its mural of anarchist authors is notable, I just link to photo(s) of it. -- do  ncr  am  15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

MOTD
A good message relating to personal attacks is this, which i happened to come across. -- do ncr  am  15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * How ironic that you would post that link less than an hour after writing an edit summary that says "restore content deleted during past harassment" at Boyd-Wilson Farm. Those dates were removed, as part of the general cleanup of that article, because the farm was not "built" in those years, not to 'harass' you. Maybe you should read that link again a few times before the next time you feel like insulting a fellow editor in a way that can never be taken back. Station1 (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * When I revisited that article to expand it with NRHP nomination document that is now available online (or it was yesterday, while today the NPS website is not working for me), yes, I was irritated to be reminded that content was deleted way back when. I am not sure of your point, is it that the farm property has always existed as land, and that a "built" date can never be valid?  The farmhouse, the main feature of the property was indeed built at several dates.  Watch Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm later when I have accessed the NRHP document again. -- do  ncr  am  15:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Later: the NRHP document is currently available here and its photos here.  The text includes "The farmhouse has several distinct periods of construction, circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920, and 1976."  This text was not available during the old contention. I had direct program access to my own downloaded copy of the NRIS database which provided at least the circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920 dates, while other editors could not see those dates (because they did not download the data and had access only to an interface which displayed just "1840").  I think that back then I may have perceived the deletion of those dates as insulting, as editors were disputing unreasonably IMO and were disbelieving me as if I were making stuff up, and I think i perceived it that way yesterday when I noticed the deletion had happened back then.  And now the dates are specifically supported in a document that all can see.  Station1, I don't particularly recall your involvement in it, and I don't think I made anything like a personal attack against you by referencing "harassment" in an edit summary.  There was in fact a general pattern of editing that I certainly experienced as harassment that went on for months, and was covered in multiple dispute resolution processes eventually.  Maybe/probably I shouldn't have mentioned it, but it was like a "harrumph" moment:  see here is documentation that I was right after all.  If it was your edit which removed the dates and your point was the technical one that land doesn't have "built" dates, I could respect that, but that was not clear, then or now.  The atmosphere back then did not lend itself to rational discussion.  If you had a point back then that I was making up stuff, then the NRHP nomination document should disprove that for you.  If there's content issue now, let's take that to Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm. -- do  ncr  am  22:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The point is only that personal attacks have no place on WP, and most especially in edit summaries, where they cannot be easily deleted. The person insulted doesn't appreciate it, and, as the "good message" you linked to notes, it mostly makes you look bad. When you get irritated, why not take a breath and read that link a few times before saving? Ask yourself if the person who changed this to this 4 months after your last edit is really just trying to harass you or might be trying to improve the article. Why not just write "added dates to infobox" as an edit summary, instead of anything personal, even if you're right? Everyone will be better off. Station1 (talk) 06:49, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

NPS Redirect
You should have an email from them by now. If you have more questions I should be able to help you. Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC) Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Dead link
Hi, the links I marked as dead are coming up as http1 not available. Am using an ipad, please advise Atlantic306 (talk)
 * If they are dead it is temporary outage that will not last. All that I reverted were references to the NRIS database, which is linked from something like 50,000 articles. -- do  ncr  am  02:40, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think its been dead for at least a week, at least on my ipadAtlantic306 (talk) 02:44, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Could have to do with changes at National Park Service noted in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, which I thought were all fixed.  Can you mention your evidence there, please? -- do  ncr  am  02:50, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
 * will do Atlantic306 (talk) 02:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.2
Hello , We now have New Page Reviewers! Most of us requested the user right at PERM, expressing a wish to be able to do something about the huge backlog, but the chart on the right does not demonstrate any changes to the pre-user-right levels of October. The backlog is still steadily growing at a rate of 150 a day or 4,650 a month. Only 20 reviews a day by each reviewer over the next few days would bring the backlog down to a managable level and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work! It didn't work in time to relax for the Xmas/New Year holidays. Let's see if we can achieve our goal before Easter, otherwise by Thanksgiving it will be closer to. Remember that we are the only guardians of quality of new articles, we alone have to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged by non-Reviewer patrollers and that new authors are not being bitten. This is even more important and extra vigilance is required considering Orangemoody,  and
 * A HUGE backlog
 * Second set of eyes
 * Abuse
 * 1) this very recent case of paid advertising by a Reviewer resulting  in  a community ban.
 * 2) this case in January of paid advertising by a Reviewer, also resulting in  a community ban.
 * 3) This Reviewer is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry.

Coordinator election
Kudpung is stepping down after 6 years as unofficial coordinator of New Page Patrolling/Reviewing. There is enough work for two people and two coords are now required. Details are at NPR Coordinators; nominate someone or nominate yourself. Date for the actual suffrage will be published later. Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:11, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems Advice: Copyright Violation; Publication ‘The Isle of Man (Pevensey Island Guides)’ by Trevor Kneale
Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions. I am glad to see that you are discussing a topic. However, as a general rule, talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the topic or unrelated topics. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. Thank you. Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your recent talk page comments were not added to the bottom of the page. New discussion page messages and topics should always be added to the bottom. Your message may have been moved. In the future you can use the "New section" link in the top right. For more details see the talk page guidelines. Thank you. agljones(talk)19:24, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


 * This relates to List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course and specifically to the latest related dispute at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. -- do ncr  am  19:30, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Please refrain from using talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems for general discussion of the topic or other unrelated topics. They are for discussion related to improving the article; not for use as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. agljones(talk)22:03, 17 February 2017 (UTC) Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to use talk pages for inappropriate discussion, as you did at Talk:List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course, you may be blocked from editing. Wikipedia requires that editors to "....Comment on content, not on the contributor" without referring to meta discussions and avoid posting the same thread in multiple talk pages. WP:MULTI It is also advised to follow the relevant BRD discussion and not bypass or undercut the same discussion with additional new sections to avoid hatting policy. WP:HAT, WP:FORUMSHOP Deal with facts rather than non sequitur and rhetorical questions WP:TALK when in particular the same BRD discussion has already provided the information. Also, more consideration should be shown to editors that may require time to respond to a talk:page comments to check facts and sources. WP:TALKagljones(talk)10:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Warner Robins Depot
Warner Robins Depot is on my photo list, the next time I'm up that way. Probably by March 20. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Reviewed!
Hi, I've reviewed the following articles which you created: I've done minor copyedits on most of them and put a couple of in where necessary. Other than that, they're all good. Thanks for your contributions! Dr Strauss  talk  15:09, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Hawkinsville Commercial and Industrial Historic District
 * Monroe County Courthouse (Forsyth, Georgia)
 * Canadaway Creek
 * U.S. Virgin Islands Governor's Mansion
 * Dawson County Jail
 * Green County Courthouse
 * Left Bank Books.

Neighborhood signage
On the Harvard Heights, Los Angeles talk page, you had written: "pretty convincing evidence is information about signs being posted which promulgate what the boundaries are. We should not ignore the knowledge of locally-informed persons-on-the-spot." Is there a specific wikipedia rule that states that? Please advise.Phatblackmama (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections
Your last chance to nominate yourself or any New Page Reviewer, See Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. Elections begin Monday 20 February 23:59 UTC. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Isle of Man TT Races.
Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that a recent edit of yours to the page Isle of Man TT has an edit summary that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. The summaries are helpful to people browsing an article's history, so it is important that you use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did. Feel free to use the sandbox to make test edits. Thank you. It may not have been your intention, but one of your edits, specifically one that you made on Isle of Man TT, may have introduced material that some consider controversial. Due to this, your edits may have been reverted. When adding material that may be controversial, it is good practice to first discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them, to gain consensus over whether or not to include the text, phrasing, etc. If you believe that the information you added was correct, please initiate that discussion. Thank you. agljones(talk)19:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.3
Hello , Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed. We now have New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced. If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire. Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Still a MASSIVE backlog

March Madness 2017
G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:


 * tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
 * updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
 * creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Brandywell, Isle of Man
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like you to assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your recent talk page comments on Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man were not added to the bottom of the page. New discussion page messages and topics should always be added to the bottom. Your message may have been moved. In the future you can use the "New section" link in the top right. For more details see the talk page guidelines. Thank you. Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man, did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. agljones(talk)22:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC) Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted. Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. agljones(talk)20:12, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
 * If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10
Issue 10 of the WikiProject X newsletter is here!

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:



23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Robert Selph Henry
Hello. Are you only interested in Southern mansions, or Southern history too? I've just created Robert Selph Henry (I think he may be related to Douglas Henry) and there are book reviews on JSTOR but I haven't had time to go through them yet. Are you interested in doing it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Curry Hill Plantation


A tag has been placed on Curry Hill Plantation requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

subject is a non-notable plantation

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. 2001:56A:F2C0:7B00:8DE7:641:B9CB:BF0E (talk) 07:42, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I happened to see this and I disagree with the decision of that IP, so I removed the speedy tag myself. NRHP listed locations are inherently notable in any reasonable interpretation of notability in the US. --Krelnik (talk) 12:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thansk for telling me about the NRHP articles! I do appreciate that you are interested in NRHP articles in Florida. I am willing to help you out and we can collaborate in the future. (Cass)

A page you started (Georgia Williams Nursing Home) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Georgia Williams Nursing Home, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Blythwood just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"I've added an extra source."

To reply, leave a comment on Blythwood's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Blythwood (talk) 02:54, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion please
Please discuss what changes you are proposing beside I dont like it there you havent offered a reason to drop the street sorting on List of heritage places in Fremantle. Streets are also related to different precincts and some are in themselves heritage listed as such sorting by streets is a necessary function. Happy to see the addition of co-ordinates but please discuss rather than endless edit warring on the lists format you'd be surprised to learn that we are happy to consider changes in ways to enhance the article, but even the change you have made by combining the address and co-ordinates has damaged the usability of the list Gnangarra 14:35, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi User:Gnangarra, I appreciate your note, which is friendlier than reception there otherwise. I did come to there in response to other editors' concerns about the list-article, and I am obviously trying to improve it using available technology.  Besides presentation order and sorting orders to improve upon, there's possible color-coding or otherwise designating the historic register levels and/or other categorizing of properties.  It is a tad irritating to be denigrated there, when I do have experience that can help, but oh well.
 * I opened a new section at Talk:List of heritage places in Fremantle, without talking about the address number + street vs. "location" distinction. Maybe that can wait a little bit?  I do recognize that there was some value to being able to sort by "street" before, although that wasn't the greatest.  The streets themselves would be in alphabetical order, not grouping the closer ones together, and the sorting within each street would be out of order (the table was not set up to sort the address numbers along a street properly, I don't think).  It would make sense to insert hidden sort-order-values into the table, as can be done (see Help:Sorting), to make the "Location" column sortable in some way (perhaps first by "area" then in some detail order that make sense to parade through, including going down each street at a time).  I don't want to overload the discussion page there too quickly, but I do want to assure you that the "usability" (if you mean the sorting by street) can be restored and enhanced upon. -- do  ncr  am  21:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Fremantle subjects
Re your edit at Drover's Wife

What is it to anyone ? - there happens to be a group of editors interested in Western Australian subjects and topics, and to query any one editor like this over common interests is trolling. The editor is interested in the subject as Toodyaypedia and Freopedia are 'live' on-going wikitown projects - I fail to see why someone needs to be queried as to their interest, or their involvement. More people are 'watching' the Fremantle subjects and articles than are involved in talk page discussions - so it goes JarrahTree 01:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * To keep it in one place, I reply to your similar comment at User talk:The Drover's Wife in this edit. -- do ncr  am  01:49, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

There is nothing to show that you have ever been 'on the ground' in Fremantle, some of us in western australia have to put up with endless and relentless geographically challenged misunderstandings on everything from deserts to perth's weather record - it is possible some aspects of your digging around fremantle city council online material could be the same as my tinkling with valparaiso chile ascensors (where I have actually been and have photos on commons), the sense of parsing online info and expecting to get to the same understanding as 'locals' can be different planets (I would not attempt from my western australian context attempt to play around with valporaiso's 'cerros' and their potential meaning and or functions without local context or assistance, and I generally never assume anything from anything online) - you may think in the english speaking world heritage mapping is universal - there are so many linguistic variables between general heritage practice and guidelines between the uk, us and australia. Wikipedia alone has some absolutely atrocious conflations of terms in some subject areas as to render a 'non-=us' bias so more difficult than you might imagine - the atlantic and pacific render some words and contexts un translatable - even in english... I was meant to be off the computer 2 hours ago - your explorations into fremantle leave me about to go to fremantle for a beer to work out how to forget the conbabulations into something for an online encyclopedia, not a never ending conversation about lists and boundaries... JarrahTree 02:11, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

I give up, the creator of the list has explained his position - I have no idea why, but he seems ok with the precincts that you have located and have suggested. I am now out of the discussion, apologies for the various tangents and what appear to have been pointless diversions JarrahTree 11:29, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have said that burb section are ok if the full list is expanded, still think that inclusion LGA register is important providing that there is more than just house, address but no further data.  For the precincts of Victoria Quay, West End and Wray ave I can see arguements for it but that doesnt necessarily mean I would agree with those sub divisions at this stage. I still maintain that street name sorting is an important aspect that needs to be retained. I also have concern about the size of the resultant article and whether those within the Freo area that is East st(Swanbourne St), Hampton rd, Duoro Road, Ocean and river would be a better consolidation. Gnangarra 12:02, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Henry Howard (architect)
Perhaps you'll want to expand Henry Howard (architect)?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion
Hi, I've reviewed a lot of your articles and it's obvious you know what you're doing on here. Since you create a lot of articles, would you be interested in signing up to be autopatrolled? This would save time for new page reviewers since your articles wouldn't go on the review list. Requesting it is really simple - I just said what I'd written and that I thought it would help reduce the workload and that was it. Blythwood (talk) 00:02, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * My apologies, the tool I use to check new pages lists pages by autopatrolled users. Please ignore this! Blythwood (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Your contribution to First Territorial Capitol of Kansas
Hi doncram,

Yesterday you placed a great NRHP document in this article as a dangling citation, and I am just checking to see if you have plans to develop this article before I devour the link and go to work with it. I think that combined with the 1958 survey I attached earlier yesterday, there is some good stuff there to expand with. But I don't want to counter-edit you because it looks like you're the expert! :)

What I would love to see is the survey map that Jefferson Davis took with red lines on it that defined Fort Riley's boundary. Multiple sources say "East of Onemile Creek," was excluded from the base, but as your topographic map shows, much of the town WAS east of that creek, so I don't understand. Unless the line started at the mouth of the creek and ran along the railroad tracks to the northeast, your map makes it very confusing! I would love your input on this, even if you give me the green light to develop the article. Your plate appears to be more than full. Tireless, indeed!

Thanks! RM2KX.

P.S. Where are you from? Your Wikifootprints are all over America! RM2KX (in Central Missouri) (talk) 08:50, 30 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Go ahead, please do exploit the NRHP reference to develop the article. I had taken note of a posting at wt:NRHP about the merger proposal there, and noticed there was no NRHP reference obtained yet, and thought I could help by adding it.  Have at it, please!
 * Ah, yes, as my "Wikifootprints" suggests... yes, you have it right, i am from America. :) -- do ncr  am  14:03, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Charles Frederick Zimpel
You might want to expand Charles Frederick Zimpel. Also if you're able to find out if some of his buildings are still standing and possibly listed... Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 08:27, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Monticello and the University of Virginia


The article Monticello and the University of Virginia has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern:
 * Article is a sentence long and the information is included in both articles.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mooeena (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Montana Club
While reading this article about the Confederate Memorial Fountain (Helena, Montana), I came across a weird history regarding the Montana Club. The strange thing is the Salon article says it was built 130 years ago and designed by a renowned architect, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. Any idea what to make of it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting about the Confederate memorial and about the unusual floor in the Montana Club/The Montana Club in Helena, Montana, too. The 1885-founded club is listed in List of gentlemen's clubs in the United States with two sources and is worthy of an article, especially with your Salon tidbit. [Down the street from the fountain there are white swastikas on a black tiled floor in the lobby of the Montana Club, a 130-year-old building. The floor was laid long before Nazis, but it got covered up during a renovation and was not rediscovered until about 10 years ago, at which time the decision was made by the Montana Historical Society to preserve the floor because of its age, and because it had been designed by a famous architect. But an explanatory sign was put up next to the building’s entrance, to alleviate the shock that most first-time visitors experience when they walk in.]  It's not at all surprising to have an NRHP-eligible place not actually NRHP-listed, as many owners are suspicious/protective of their privacy and property rights, and not needing/interested in any tax benefits for renovations, and they will opt out of listing (which owners can do, even at the last minute after others' work has been done establishing NRHP-eligibility).  Hmm, but it seems it is NRHP-listed within Helena Historic District (wikipedia article mentions it).  The Montana Club's claim at its website "The Montana Club is the oldest, continuously-operating private club west of the Mississippi" seems dubious given info RE Hawaii one and 3 San Francisco ones at the list-article.  Oh, architect of its 1905 building was Cass Gilbert, that is huge!  (And interesting arson story, besides interesting story of Gilbert's design per history document linked from Mt Club page).  Needs to be added to Cass Gilbert article, which does not currently mention it.  Good catch!  Will you start an article?  DYK it?  I will further develop at Helena Historic District article which currently cites 3 NRHP nomination documents but does not link to online copies. -- do  ncr  am  21:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll let you do it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's a picture.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you think the NRHP listing is incomplete because the Placer Hotel is listed according to the description on Wikimedia Commons, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. I am pinging User:Montanabw, who added the description on Commons. This is regarding George H. Carsley.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oops, I have just seen User:Montanabw's note that it is listed in the Helena Historic District (Helena, Montana). Is there a way to make this more obvious at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana though? If I couldn't find it, other editors are bound to be equally confused.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * By the way, this JSTOR article mentions the Montana Club.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:39, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * FWIW, the building is close to my office, let me know if you want a photo of the infamous floor and the sign. Also, if you ping User:KingJeff1970, he is well-positioned to get you any documents you might not otherwise be able to find (see his user page, self-explanatory). Also, I helped create the Helena Historic District Article and to do so at the time I had to go dig through paper copies of the original application, a task I hope not to need to repeat (with luck, it’s all online now…)— keep in mind the district has been expanded twice… there are dozens of conforming properties (I work in one of them). Be glad to answer any questions or help; my wiki time is a bit limited these days, but if you post to my talk page, it will ping my email. If someone wants to find a public domain street map, I can draw the lines to show the boundaries of the district… it’s large. Basically, most of the conforming buildings have their own signs posted on them to indicate they are part of the NRHP district… example File:Atlas Block sign.jpg.  Montanabw (talk) 02:38, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Montanabw so much for your having nicely developed the district article in 2013 and for helping out now! Yes the three NRHP documents (along with accompanying 20, 50, 44 photos) are available online now, and I just updated their references accordingly.  Yes, it would be great if you could upload a few pics!  I haven't done a DYK nomination in years but would be motivated to do so now....it would be great if you could get one or two detail pics that show just one or a few swastikas which might work well as small thumb photo in the DYK section on the Wikipedia main page.  If it all comes together fast then it would be a good DYK.  I don't promise too much timely effort myself though, so it might not, and let's not stress just to meet DYK deadline;  the real point would be to support a nice new article.  Other interior pictures would be more important perhaps.  The Club's history document features one specific original table/desk that may now be in an office, which would be great to get a pic for, too.
 * Thanks Zigzig20s for going ahead and starting the Montana Club article. The 10th photo in the first NRHP document includes the Montana Club without labelling it (maybe it is across the street from the initial historic district?), and it is the subject of the 22nd photo in the second NRHP document.  I'll add those references with mention of those photos to the Montana Club article. -- do  ncr  am  03:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * As you all noticed, I took more photos of the area... all now in their own category on Commons. I wasn't able to get a shot of the 6th floor banquet room because they were having a meeting in there, the Rathskeller was closed, and my photo of the dining room bar was out of focus. But let me know if any of these would be worth another trip over there; the building is  open odd hours sometimes; I was lucky to shoot the dining room when nothing was going on.  Oh yeah, and it's also got some old steam tunnels under it where they allegedly used to smuggle in hookers from places like Big Dorothy's... plus there's a claim it's haunted, .  Montanabw (talk) 03:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Would they let you take pictures of the tunnels?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice
Hello sir, here's a deletion discussion going on and you most likely would be interested in it as you once !voted a keep for it before it got re-listed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Okon_Goes_to_School Celestina007 (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Mount Saint Joseph Academy
You were completely right. I must have been looking at the old version of the article that was full of COPYVIO content. That content was later removed and I seem to have overlooked that important fact. Thanks for noticing. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:07, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Metter High School
The old Metter High School is not on highway 129 - it is 4 blocks to the west. That is probably where the new HS is. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 21:42, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled
Hi Doncram. I patrolled one of your new article creations earlier, and was surprised to see your name pop up on the new page feed. Your user page has a box saying you're autopatrolled, but this (and my experience earlier) suggests you're not. I thought I should let you know. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, User:Cordless Larry, i didn't realize that old userbox was there, and I just removed it. Right, I am not autopatrolled, as a legacy from contention long ago.  Twice over the years I asked for the status to be changed.  It is fairly nonsensical in my case, but I think the policy/practice is that if you ask for your status to be changed, then it is denied because you asked for it. -- do  ncr  am  22:46, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Note, i was pinged in this. -- do ncr  am  16:50, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm filing a request at WP:ARCA for clarification of whether or not you are still restricted, it should be live in just a few minutes. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:13, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * From this discussion here I thought you probably would rather have it back, so that's on me for assuming, When I denied it I was basing that on your user rights log, then I remembered I'd seen your name at WP:RESTRICT, where I've been doing a bit of reorganizing work, and went back and saw that this eventually went to arbcom, and "regular" admins don't like to do anything that might step on the toes of an arbcom decision. They tend to desysop admins who do stuff like that so we're a bit gunshy about it. I didn't mean to stir up any drama or anything and now I feel like I probably owe you an apology, so sorry if this was stressful or stirred up anything best left behind, that was certainly not my intention.


 * The listing at RESTRICT is a bit off, which led to the confusion on my end about the timeframe as well. My reasoning, for the record, was that since there was an arbcom restriction on you creating certain types of articles, that probably means your articles should be reviewed, whereas if there wasn't you should probably have it since you create so many. I probably should have also alerted you to the fact that another admin asked me about this at WT:PERM as he was looking into the request at the same time I was declining it, and we were just trying to figure out how to proceed. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for explaining, including about your concern about stepping on toes and otherwise about your role. You're right, I was alarmed at an issue being raised at ARCA, and the immediate prospect of drama, over complicated stuff that new and old people do not need to engage in, besides the fact that I honestly think the arbitration committee sometimes has too much workload.  Given your remarks, i found my way to Iyour discussion at wt:PERM.  I appreciate your seeing that I could experience stress -- i suppose I do a bit if/when I go back into old horrible stuff, which your discussion there was going towards.  I would have been happy to participate there if you had informed me, though, and I think your concern about stepping on toes could have been addressed.  I was/am not up to ringing alarm bells and drama.  Again I don't need auto-patrol, but I guess it is a hurdle that maybe should be crossed, and would fairly involve allaying concerns of PERM regulars (which I think can be done).  How about coming back to this after May 6, at wt:PERM, to discuss quietly I hope.  -- do  ncr  am  04:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not think such a request would have a quiet response anytime soon due to your return to some old behavior patterns discussed below. Jonathunder (talk) 13:49, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

ARCA archived
's recent clarification request has been archived at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram. For the Arbitration Committee,  Mini  apolis  13:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Hospital de San Carlos
I found significant coverage for a now closed hospital that was located in Spain which has the same name. Maybe the sentence can be changed and the article re-categorized SL93 (talk) 02:49, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course I mean if this hospital is found to be non-notable. SL93 (talk) 03:06, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Statesboro
I want to get back to Statesboro to do the HDs soon - I'll get the one you just altered. Next on my list, though, is Emanuel County, GA. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 18:08, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, Bubba73, gotcha. Thanks for noticing that I figured out a photo was wrong.  I'll turn somewhat to National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia, then.  For the (apparently demolished) Emanuel County Courthouse and Sheriff Department, there is note that "there is a historical marker", maybe you could get a pic of that marker for the article?  Technically, historic markers are not necessarily public domain, but IMHO it is okay to post photos of them. -- do  ncr  am  18:27, 12 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I was researching the places in the county and found that the old courthouse and sheriff office is gone (I'm the one who put in the note). I couldn't find it when I was there but I didn't have the right address.  I read that the historical marker mentions the building and I spotted it in the satellite view.  I'm planning the other things in the county, but it would be about 30 minutes out of my way to go over to Swainsboro to get the marker, so my plan is to swing back through Statesboro (Bulloch county) and get some of that.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:55, 12 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Here is the marker for the old Emanuel Co. courthouse - it does NOT mention the building. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 20:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I'll remove the mention then at National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia.  I have now begun articles for all there although i left several with "under construction" tags, in my "to do" category, and I won't forget them.  About Twin City Historic District, I wonder if this one merits more systematic treatment, like by photos of each of the significant buildings which could be used to make a list-table.  Despite what i incoherently started to say elsewhere, I think it is not obvious when a historic district merits that.  This one is marginal, as the NRHP document provides some description of prominent properties but maybe not enough, and the district is maybe not exceptional.  I suppose you'll see if you're inspired, or not, based on what you see there.  I don't mind either way, if the non-table-ized list i'm developing in the article gets further developed or not. -- do  ncr  am  02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I covered Emanuel County and did some in Statesboro today. I got a ton of photos of the Twin City HD - it is spread around.  I'll try to upload them within a few days.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Great! I saw that you added some to the Emanuel County list-article.  I need to come back to some of the linked pages.
 * About Thomas County, for sometime in the future, I have been plugging along and there are now 25 articles for its 40 places. Wright House (Thomasville, Georgia) is one where there is a photo from its front gate, but the place appears to be a gem based on its NRHP photos and really needs some closer-up photos.  I hope you might remember to try to go knock at its door and take pictures of its doorway and its front porch columns. -- do  ncr  am  20:58, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * An interesting thing about Emanuel County - I finished up the photos Saturday except for the demolished old courthouse. But that same day someone added a 1951 photo of it to its article!


 * I plan to get to Thomas and Grady sometime, and hopefully a county or two above them - but I can't do this on a day trip and I have no specific plans. I'm planning to do a day trip to Jenkins County on May 29.  I'm planning to finish up McIntosh county sometime, but you have to take a ferry to Sapelo Island and hire a personal tour guide to get to the other places, so I don't know when I will do it.  Also on my wish list is Baldwin county, which is also too far to do in a day trip.  There are some in Baldwin that need photos and some that have only old B&W photos from decades ago.  And then Muscogee County needs quite a few, but they are spread out in a large city, so it will probably take two nights on the road.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The photo of the Wright house is beautiful, but I can get closeups of it from the street. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:30, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Jenkins County articles are in progress. Hey, stories shared about Birdsville Plantation in comments at Brian Brown's photos/blog site are amusing, including, apropos to past discussion: ''Missing the “no trespassing” sign, I walked down the dirt lane taking pictures and marveling at the history around me. I was run off, then chased by the owner. On the highway in front of the plantation I declared my ignorance, begged forgiveness, and was given a history lesson of the family during the civil war, and an explanation of the buildings on the site.'' Brian Brown himself had permission as did another visitor or two. Maybe you could/should write ahead, now, given that you have an expected visit date. -- do ncr  am  01:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

The Fairfax House
Hello. Are you able to identify if the Fairfax House on listed on the National Register of Historic Places listings in St. Mary Parish, Louisiana please? At first I thought it was the Grevemberg House, but apparently they are different houses.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Zigzig20s, I'd be glad to help if i can. My browser does not want to open that Fairfax House webpage as it detects a threat there, so I don't know what details you have about it.  However, Grevemberg House is in Franklin, Louisiana, and I see from browsing at the Louisiana database that there is a "Franklin Historic District" there, with 420(!) structures.  I wonder if Fairfax House could be a contributing building in the district, hence it would be NRHP-listed and could even have an NRHP plaque on the building.  Here is a map of the district.  Usually it is okay to create a separate article about a contributing building in a historic district, if you have any substantial source about it.  Here, the Franklin HD NRHP document PDF (the scanned parts provided by Louisiana, anyhow) doesn't specifically mention "Fairfax".   (I find the PDF and map and photos at this Louisiana page for the Franklin HD.  Does this help?  Hmm, Franklin Historic District (Franklin, Louisiana) is currently a redlink, maybe i or you could create that article now. -- do  ncr  am  20:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm,, a Yelp page says Fairfax House is at 99 Main St., and consistent with that Google maps shows a Fairfax House is on Main St. at Foster Ave, which is two blocks south of the end of the district. :( And from browsing to see the addresses of each of the St. Mary Parish listings in Franklin (select St. Mary Parish at Louisiana database), there are not any others which could be Fairfax House, as far as I can tell.  So I expect it is a B&B that advertises itself as historic, but it is not in fact NRHP-listed. -- do  ncr  am  21:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, but the NRHP document lists 100 Main St. and 101 Main St. as in the district, and a mile away from 99 Main St. Maybe there is supposed to be North Main St. and South Main St. and/or maybe there have been street renumberings.  So I am no longer sure what's up. -- do  ncr  am  21:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I first saw it on this website.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:07, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Joshua K. Hutchison House) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Joshua K. Hutchison House, Doncram!

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SouthernNights (talk) 18:11, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Fixed tables' headers
Hi, Doncram

I read your post about the implementation of fixed tables' headers on Google Chrome and Apple Safari browsers, and i verified it. Thanks for your post. I've tried to answer you on my talk page on wikimedia but i couldn't. So thank you very much for your attention,

Regards, Dorivaldo de C. M. dos Santos (talk) 22:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

renaming courthouse articles (again)
You moved Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin) unnecessarily. Please review the discussion we had about that last July, where multiple editors told you not to do that. Jonathunder (talk) 23:44, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * You've been warned other times, too. If you want to edit war rather than discuss this, it will lead to a block. Jonathunder (talk) 00:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I imagine you have been sitting on the edge of your seat for eight or nine months, just waiting to pounce in some way! You don't get to dictate what is done, naming-wise in Wikipedia, and threatening is not nice.  Don't edit war, yourself.... you could have discussed the move and chose not to, rather moving back within one minute, rather than opening discussion, and causing an edit conflict for me when I saved the development of the article I was writing.  Well, okay, I did just now review the previous discussion, and find that it ended when you did not reply to questions.  You could have replied, you did not.  You also could have developed the article and other ones;  it happens I am proceeding at developing such articles and I just happened to get to this one to expand it a bit.  My questions still stand, and it still makes sense to discuss the perceived issues.  I would like you to reply here, please do. -- do  ncr  am  00:10, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

No, I really expected when this was last discussed that you would not resume your disruptive page moves without discussing them first. Now you are edit warring on deletion discussions with other people. I don't know why you are doing this, but it must stop. Jonathunder (talk) 02:33, 27 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Followup: To Jonathunder, yes there was a weird interaction about an inappropriate closure of a contested AFD discussion by an involved editor, which i brought up at wp:ANI, where multiple other editors agreed that the closure was against the rules for AFDs.  I reverted the closure twice believing that they were just making a mistake and needed to be informed that the closure was against the rules, i.e. I thought it was uncontroversial to revert.  When I realized they really were intentionally going against the rules and were edit warring to force their way (which i was not doing), I brought it to ANI, which is appropriate.  This was a bizarre sequence and I think this has nothing to do with naming of disambiguation pages.


 * About page moves, I have certainly moved hundreds of pages, if not thousands, in my editing over the years, and that is okay to do, and I believe that most times my moves have improvements serving readers and that consensus has agreed with me. About the page where we disagree, I moved it as one step in improving the article, and I was bothered by your abrupt, immediate move back that caused edit conflict for me as I developed it.  And I moved it again, which was later reverted by another editor.  I see quoted elsewhere, that WP:RMUM (part of WP:RM) says "Anyone can be bold and move a page without discussing it first and gaining an explicit consensus on the talk page. If you consider such a move to be controversial, and the new title has not been in place for a long time, you may revert the move... Move wars are disruptive, so if you make a bold move and it is reverted, do not make the move again. Instead, follow the procedures laid out in § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves."  So, sure, I guess I should not have moved it back.  I think it is somewhat extenuating that I was in fact developing the article, and relatedly was informed to a certain extent about the topic, i.e. I had some pseudo-expertise and temporarily felt some ownership (not in a bad way) over the topic.  In general, I think that editors should defer somewhat to other editors who are actually developing a topic, although I am not saying that is enforceable.  I personally feel that you were rude in your actions to make the move and to come here and make accusations against me.  It is weird that you have declined to discuss the topic (you have declined to answer my questions to you) and yet you want me to hold to the outcome of the incomplete discussion.  The way the discussion stands is that your view is contested/questioned, and you do not get to freeze development of Wikipedia until you deign to respond.  I would like to call attention to what I assume is common ground between us, that we both do seek the development of Wikipedia coverage of NRHP-listed places.  I hope you agree that development of articles, on which i spend by far the majority of my editing time in Wikipedia, is what matters most.  In this specific case, it would be nice if you would acknowledge my modest development of the topic, although I don't really expect you to do so. -- do  ncr  am  17:05, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

LibStar abruptly closing AFD
The following two sections relate to wp:ANI discussion that was archived at Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive952. I find the editor's behavior odd; i twice reverted an AFD closure believing they were unaware of the rules for closing a contested AFD, only to discover they really were edit warring intentionally to get their way, and coming here to threaten me. I don't exactly agree with the ANI closure and some comments therein, where other editors note the closure was in fact against the rules and practice, yet they were inclined to let it go. However when to let a transgression slide is a matter of judgment, so I don't object too much, but the editor should be considered to be on notice. -- do ncr  am  17:17, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

your behavior
is bordering on WP:POINT, take it to deletion review if you are not happy. If you persist I will raise an WP:ANI. LibStar (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

AfD, ANI, etc.
I'm sorry to see that your dispute with LibStar has boiled over onto ANI. You've been a great help with saving the museum articles from deletion. Sometimes, there are so many of them at AfD it's hard to find time to uncover sources for them all. Thanks! Altamel (talk) 03:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

South Carolina mansion
Hi. Is this listed? Perhaps you could create an article?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:36, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The article itself claims it is listed. And sure enough it already has an article here: Bon Haven What a darn shame that it will be torn down. --Krelnik (talk) 18:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Yamashiro Historic District images
Hallo Doncram,

Would you mind taking a look here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California/Los_Angeles_task_force for your help, or ask a user in the task force who might be able to help? Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 15:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin)
FYI I reverted your move because of a request at WP:RM/TR. I have procedurally opened an RM if you want to comment. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Doncram, what are you doing?
 * It's quite dubious that buildings and institutions are "places" for our purposes. I mean yes I get that you could argue for (and against) the proposition that in the real world buildings or institutions are "places" rather than "things" -- it could be an interesting discussion. But one thing is certain: WP:PLACE doesn't apply to buildings and institutions. In that very long and detailed page, there is not one single mention or example of a building. They talk mostly about political divisions, and a bit about neighborhoods, rivers, highways, and mountains. They had plenty of space to cover or at least mention buildings. But they didn't. They didn't because they didn't think about buildings or intend to cover them.
 * And WP:USPLACE prescribes comma delineation, so if buildings were covered by WP:PLACE it would be "Building, State" or "Building, City, State" and not "Building (City, State)".
 * But also, WP:PLACE doesn't prescribe unnecessary disambiguation. Since it doesn't cover buildings you have to extrapolate a bit, but I think it fair to say (leaving aside comma delineation) that "Building (City, State)" would be analogous to "City (County, State)" or "County (State, Nation)" which we would do only if "City (State)" etc. is insufficient -- and WP:PLACE in no way indicates otherwise.
 * But anyway, even if WP:PLACE applied to buildings (which it doesn't), and even if it said to use "Building (City, State)" when we didn't have to (which it doesn't), WP:PLACE is a guideline, and WP:AT is a policy which trumps it, and WP:AT tells us to be concise, and to be more no precise than necessary.
 * And as regards actual practice, the situation appears mixed. Four of six articles requiring disambiguation in Category:County courthouses in Wisconsin use "Building (State)". I didn't check further.

And even if my analysis above was all wrong, it's not nonsense. It is at least arguable. Since its at least arguable you need to not move articles on your personal belief, but initiate a Requested Move, thanks.

By the way, on the merits I don't necessarily mind "Building (City, State)" if it helps the reader more quickly grasp what the article is about. There could be a Recognizability argument for "Douglas County Courthouse (Superior, Wisconsin)"... not strong IMO but I could be wrong.

We don't seem to have a guideline covering buildings. I expect to start a discussion about that soon, and I'll ping you, and maybe "Building (City, State)" when disambiguation is required can get adopted -- I doubt it, but you never know. Herostratus (talk) 04:12, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Moving forward
I think I'm on your side on the merits of this (not on the concept of making controversial moves on your own dime). As promised, I opened a conversation on this and am hereby pinging you. It is here: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names). Herostratus (talk) 05:14, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Texas Trail
Was this the same as the Chisholm Trail, or something different? There's an ambiguous link (tagged as dn) to the DAB page Texas Trail in Texas Trail Stone Corral which I do not feel competent to fix. If yes, cross-references might be in order; if no, there may be a missing article. Narky Blert (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Right, I have been wondering if there is a missing article, since whenever it was I created and/or edited at Texas Trail Stone Corral. I considered your making addition to the Texas Trail disambiguation page to be a contribution towards sorting out the question.  Since there are a couple references to "Texas Trail", i tend to think this is different than the Chisholm Trail, but I don't know.  Hmm, the NRHP nomination document for the corral repeatedly speaks of the "Texas Trail".  I speculate perhaps it was a name used in Nebraska for one or more trails which brought cattle from Texas to railroads in Nebraska.  Maybe on the Texas end it/they were called differently (like, on the other end they could have been called "Nebraska Trail")?  But that speculation doesn't hold.  The corral was built c.1876 and served the Texas Trail for a decade.  However the Chisholm Trail speaks of railroad reaching Abilene, Kansas and other locations before 1876, presumably to the south of Nebraska, so it wouldn't make sense for cattle to be driven to Nebraska.  So maybe the Texas trail was to bring cattle south towards Texas, to railroads?  I dunno. -- do  ncr  am  20:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Googling "Texas Trail in Nebraska" gives several sources, including THE TEXAS TRAIL, at Nebraska State Historical Society. So yes, the disambiguation page should be moved to Texas Trail (disambiguation) and a new article should be created.  Go ahead, Narky Blert, or I will, soon.  Thanks for your focus upon this! -- do  ncr  am  20:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

note about Colquitt County Arts Center
I just reviewed your new article. I realize that you might be still working on it. The infobox needs 'fixed'. Thanks for what you do! Best Regards,
 *  Bfpage  let's talk... 22:51, 4 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Right, yes, after an edit conflict, it is now fixed. This is about Moultrie High School, aka Colquitt County Arts Center. Thanks! -- do  ncr  am  22:58, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That was one of the last former redlinks on National Register of Historic Places listings in Colquitt County, Georgia, now completely "articled". I have been off and on developing articles on Georgia NRHP topics in loose coordination with editor Bubba73, who has been developing them with new photographs, and was/is planning to visit Colquitt county sometime soon.  On this one I hope there can be some more and/or better photographs added! -- do  ncr  am  17:23, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation)
I have replied to your comment at Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:11, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Robert "Bob" Hicks House) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Robert "Bob" Hicks House, Doncram!

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Elliot321 (talk) 17:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo talk page comment
I thought some of your ideas at the Jimbo talk page regarding the entrepreneur article issue were intriguing, but I confess I cringed a bit when you suggested that she probably cheats on her taxes. Would you consider redacting that comment? It's my opinion there are important issues to address, and in the same way I objected when I thought smallbones went over the top, I think your comment distracts from the main discussion.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)


 * User:Sphilbrick, I think you're nice for asking for that, and I already know you're a nice person from interactions over the years, including seeing you be kind to new editors having trouble understanding how to participate in Wikipedia. I refined one of my comments already, but right now I think i should just stand by my remarks.  A point that I am making is that you and others are being nice, and are being abused, and it's simply a different world out there.  The author mentions having long correspondence with some community representative (member of the Foundation board of directors?) and corresponding with others, and I rather expect they were dealt with patiently and it was explained how the paid editors' shit-work is a real drag and hurts real people, volunteer editors, and yet they go on with their recommendation to just trash Wikipedia and lie.  They're not being nice.  Wikipedia does not need to be nice to them.  Right, I tried to express that I am not myself comfortable about being "not nice", but that's the deal.  Hmm, suppose they are a real person and a mother and whatever, and they have Facebook friends who see them being criticized, and suppose they really do feel hurt by my comments (which I doubt).  Well, I don't relish hurting anyone, but they are hurting real nice people here, and they jolly well know that.  Hmm, maybe what got published is not what they wrote...perhaps what they submitted was in fact witty, and yet some editor made them change it or simply changed it for them, and pushed on to be provocative.  I.e. suppose it is not really their view, does it seem unfair to criticize them?  Well, what they wrote does not read that way.  If they want to correspond to me (they can "email this user" at the left here) and explain what really happens, I would be happy to listen.  But then it would seem their beef should be with the editor who changed what they wrote and left them looking like a jerk.  They do look like a jerk.  And the editor(s), whether they changed anything or not, have some responsibility too.  I do sincerely thank you for giving your point of view. -- do  ncr  am  21:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Banco de Ponce
Left you a reply at
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Banco_de_Ponce_(disambiguation)#Do_not_delete Mercy11 (talk) 02:45, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Nothing personal: I think the wider issue does need to be resolved, so I've nominated an AFD... Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Burwell Bridge) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Burwell Bridge, Doncram!

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Nicnote •  ask me a question  •  contributions  20:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation
The guideline for disambiguation is at WP:PRECISION and the key for titles is being concise, i.e. using as few words as possible. Precedence in other similar articles only requires using "city, state" in parenthesis in the event more than one article of the same title exists in the same state. This happens a lot with high schools, for instance, Lakewood High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Lakewood High School (Hebron, Ohio) since "Lakewood High School (Ohio)" is still ambiguous. The school of the same name in New Jersey, however, only needs "New Jersey" to disambiguate (Lakewood High School (New Jersey)) since there aren't any other schools with that name in New Jersey. For things like Midway Drive-In, the only difference between them is which state they're in, so we can just use state. Midway Drive-In (Ohio) is precise enough to separate disambiguate from Midway Drive-In (Illinois) and Midway Drive-In (Texas). The "city, state" convention for most US cities is generally for the city articles themselves, not for disambiguation titles, except as needed. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Article, Keppel Gate, Isle of Man
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MfD nomination of Wikipedia:TNTTNT
Wikipedia:TNTTNT, a page which you created or substantially contributed to (or which is in your userspace), has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:TNTTNT and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:TNTTNT during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:33, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Wayne Commercial Historic District) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Wayne Commercial Historic District, Doncram!

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Elliot321 (talk) 20:31, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee
So many red links at National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:37, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, Zigzig20s, one fewer now. I wouldn't mind working on it together with you.  But any reason to address that list, rather than other blue-coded counties in NRHP progress map?  If you are going to visit and take photos, for example, please do say. -- do  ncr  am  12:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted
Hi Doncram, I just wanted to let you know that I have [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&page=User%3ADoncram added] the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! S warm  ♠  03:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. (Was done here.) -- do  ncr  am  11:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - Newsletter No.4
Hello ,

Since rolling out the right in November, just 6 months ago, we now have reviewers, but the backlog is still mysteriously growing fast. If every reviewer did just reviews, the  backlog would be gone, in a flash, schwoop, just like that!

But do remember: Rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Do not over-tag. Make use of the message feature to let the creator know about your maintenance tags. See the tutorial again HERE. Get help HERE.

Stay up to date with recent new page developments and have your say, read THIS PAGE. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Fort Arbuckle Site


A tag has been placed on Fort Arbuckle Site requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either
 * disambiguates two or fewer extant Wikipedia pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
 * disambiguates no (zero) extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - MrX 23:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee)
Thank you for creating Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee). Any idea who the sculptor was please?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)


 * User:Zigzig20s, that was back in 2010! Just now I added the NRHP registration document (with its photos) now available, which supports an assertion that the 1869 monument is the first one honoring unknown Confederate dead.  But no sculptor info.  Some more from the NRHP doc could be added, too. -- do  ncr  am  05:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Affine manifold (disambiguation)


The article Affine manifold (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern:
 * Disambiguation not required. Primary topic has necessary hatnote

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:56, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Category:Centennial farms has been nominated for discussion
Category:Centennial farms, which you created, has been nominated for possible merging. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Imperial Crown Architecture
Hi Doncram, I am wondering whether it would be useful to have a category for Imperial Crown style architecture? This style was not confined only to Japan, as there are examples to be found in other countries, such as Taiwan and probably other parts of the Japanese Empire. merlinVtwelve (talk) 04:49, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * User:MerlinVtwelve, I agree. Go ahead, wp:be bold and create it (presumably Category:Imperial Crown Style architecture or similar), or do you want me to?  Note there is wp:CLNT, an essay or guideline about how having categories and list-articles are complementary.  Clearly accumulating information about this architectural style by creating and gradually populating a category will be a good thing. -- do  ncr  am  02:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * P.S. I wouldn't worry too much about whether "Japanese" or other qualifier is needed in the category title.  Categories can easily be renamed and a bot will go through the articles created in order to update them. -- do  ncr  am  02:42, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll give it a whirl. I've never previously created a category, so it will be a good learning experience (I hope). IMHO it's a fascinating and sometimes quite elegant style. merlinVtwelve (talk) 03:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Saint Paul Catholic Church article
Hello Doncram. I tried to create an article for St. Paul's but couldn't. I don't think it's notable enough, and there isn't very much to be said that's not already on the church's history page. It was a challenge to avoid close paraphrasing. I took away the red link on the Archdiocese page. I saved the version that I was working on in case I decide to come back to it, but at this point I don't think it's worth it. Display name 99 (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, User:Display name 99, thanks for letting me know. Is your draft available?  I'd rather try to expand on that than develop from scratch.  Could you point me to where it currently is, or post it at Draft:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland) or similar Draft-space or User-space location?  I'd like to see it and try perhaps to expand it.  I am betting you are a bit harsh on yourself / strict on what you think suffices, but also maybe some other eyes would be able to find and add more.  I do appreciate your making effort on this.  This relates to discussion at Articles for deletion/Our Lady of Pompeii Church. -- do  ncr  am  02:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I've posted it. Two things that aren't on the parish's history page, though, are the Babe Ruth marriage and the fact that the church sheltered people during the deadly 2016 Maryland flood, for which it made the news. Display name 99 (talk) 02:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, great, thanks! It looks like a good start, and from the browsing I did before I am sure that I can add other sources.  Do you do DYK's?  I haven't for quite a while, but this could be a good topic for a mainpage DYK such as "Did You Know that... Babe Ruth was married at Saint Paul Catholic Church in Ellicott City, Maryland?", assuming we could develop some details about that topic in the article.  I'd be happy to work towards something like that if it would be okay with you.  I'll get around to developing the draft-space article gradually. -- do  ncr  am  02:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * If you really feel like it's notable, I could just go ahead and create it now, and we both could work towards that. I've never done a DYK before, but that sounds interesting. Display name 99 (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, do lets do a DYK then! For DYK purposes, it is better to develop the article in draftspace until it is ready, without the clock running.  Requirements include that it has to have 1500 bytes of article text, not including infoboxes and other stuff, and it has to have detailed sourcing for the DYK assertion, and it has to be new to mainspace, less than 5 days old I think, when nominated, and maybe there is another requirement or two.  The current article text has 615 bytes by the tool that i use.  Development including DYK wording can be discussed at Draft talk:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland).  Great, I am happy to have a small positive project like this! -- do  ncr  am  02:59, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Copyright Infringement;- List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course
Your addition has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images&mdash;you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. agljones(talk)11:32, 17 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Nonsense. I replied yet again at the long-open Copyright problems discussion section, and at this point I am coming around to support permanent ban of agljones from Isle of Man TT racing related articles, which has been suggested by others at the copyright problems discussion. -- do  ncr  am  20:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Restricted address section intro
Template:Restricted address section intro has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:44, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:NRHP dab cleanup
Template:NRHP dab cleanup has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Sorry - your message came after I went to bed, and I haven't had time to digest it until just now.

I'd rather not rollback any of the edits I made because AWB does a bunch of cosmetic stuff, and rolling back will kill all that, if it exists, as well as the edit in question. Besides which, it'll be tedious and easy to overlook something. What I think will be far easier to do is to generate a list for AWB and go back over the articles that way. It'll take a bit of time, but I should be able to get most, if not all, of the task taken care of by tomorrow evening if I get started on it tonight. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:28, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Sandbox is prepped for the AWB run. I'll start this evening and see how far I can go. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 18:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * This is about edits changing "architect OR builder" to "architect". User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao, your proceeding that way, using AWB, is fine.  I do regret that in many cases your edit would happen to be correct.  In other cases the information is now available from a now-linked or now-available NRHP registration document.  It would be great to simply get the specific correct information out into the infoboxes and/or to develop the articles' text with correct info, too.  If there's a worklist that I could try to help on, I would do a chunk.  And/or we could try to get others to help, e.g. by directions on how to help at wt:NRHP. -- do  ncr  am  22:51, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings in El Salvador
Hello Doncram – I've been on an eight-month Wikibreak for various reasons, but am now back on Wikipedia. You may remember that last year we talked about having an article for the above list – I've had a draft table with some citations in my sandbox for many months, but I have other articles that I would like to work on that are greater priorities for me and would like to free up some space in my sandbox. Would you be OK with moving the list to one of your sandboxes for you to continue working on in your own time, and eventually creating the article? Hope you are well. Richard3120 (talk) 00:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the bump, but I wasn't sure if you'd seen my original message above or it had been forgotten. Richard3120 (talk) 20:02, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, User:Richard3120, thanks for original contact and especially for following up. Probably i didn't know how to respond because you provided no links.  Just now I found my way to the AFDs by trying List of tallest buildings in El Salvador (currently a redlink) and then "What links here".  And I just requested copies of the 3 deleted articles.  Yes, please, I would be happy to work with whatever draft list you have.  Hmm, ah, now I find your draft at User:Richard3120/sandbox.  (Note I and many other editors create and use many sandboxes, e.g. User:Doncram/sandbox2, sandbox11, etc., but I see for you space is at a premium ;/ ) Okay, but I would like for you to get credit as creating the article, so could you create, say, User:Doncram/List of tallest buildings in El Salvador and copy that work over to it?  I could edit it some then move it to mainspace, but it will properly show as having been created by you.  It would also be fine if you would just create the mainspace article directly, and I would add to it in mainspace.  Thanks! -- do  ncr  am  20:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm really sorry, I kind of assumed that you'd remember what the original discussion was about – you're right, I should have provided some links. Anyway, I'll go ahead and create that sandbox later today, and then you can add the deleted articles as well to it. Perhaps I should look into creating more sandboxes, my current one's a mess! Richard3120 (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Argh i previously asked for and got those 3 articles
 * User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre B
 * User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre A
 * User:Doncram/Campestre 105 Torre C‎
 * -- do ncr  am  01:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Waiting for User:Richard3120 to copy their work out of their general sandbox into a separate "sandbox" or into a mainspace article. -- do ncr  am  01:05, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ at User:Richard3120/List of tallest buildings in El Salvador – apologies for the delay. Richard3120 (talk) 16:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Sunday July 16: New England Wiknic @ Cambridge, MA
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New Page Reviewer Newsletter
Hello, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update: Technology update:
 * The new page backlog is currently at 18,511 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a a day.
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If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:48, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Draft:List of alternative history books concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:List of alternative history books, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I moved it to User:Doncram/List of alternative history books for now. -- do ncr  am  02:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

NRHP & Listed buildings generally
further to your comments on Suydam House i was wondering if you have an opinion on the notability of National Register of Historic Places and whether that would apply to the (not really on wikipedia yet) listed buildings of the Historic England register, and the notability of listed buildings in general. A Guy into Books (talk) 08:16, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * This is partly about ongoing Articles for deletion/Suydam House, where i commented. User:Aguyintobooks, the system of NRHP listings under List of RHPs is generally well supported by the NRIS database and individual NRHP site nomination/registration documents that exist, whether they are linked or not. There have probably been hundreds of AFDs about individual NRHPs which have all failed, because the effective notability requirements for NRHP listing exceed Wikipedia's article notability standard.  That said, the continued existence in Wikipedia of NRHP articles with no included claim of notability and no included substantial references, is something which could be contested.  There is the wp:AFDISNOTFORCLEANUP argument however, and usually an AFD about any specific NRHP can be derailed by someone simply expanding the one article.  About British listed buildings, it is my understanding that there are types I, II*, and II or something like that, and the higher one or two types are generally considered to be Wikipedia notable. -- do  ncr  am  13:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that, very helpful and i have got a similar response in the teahouse also :) A Guy into Books (talk) 08:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Aguyintobooks, oh, further, I see the higher grades are I and II*. Grade II* listed buildings in Malvern Hills (district) is one example in Category:Lists of Grade II* listed buildings in England, where the editors have links for a few building-specific articles but don't assume the rest will be notable, providing no redlinks for them.  In the U.S. NRHP system, we almost always presume all will be notable and show redlinks.
 * Yeah, I see some discussion at the teahouse thru this diff. A difference U.S. vs. U.K. is that in the U.S. the documentation really is required for listing (although there are still wp:MPS Multiple Property Submissions where short summaries of individual properties were deemed to suffice, in conjunction with one overall document), and the documentation is usually now online (see wp:NRHPhelp for guidance in finding docs from national or state-specific sources).  Florida happens to have been the first state where all the articles were created, ten years ago, before documentation was available, but documents are now available for all or almost all of Florida, from the National Park Service. [I was mixing this up with recent Articles for deletion/Pink House (Melbourne Beach, Florida) ].
 * Are you interested in working on articles in any area in U.S. or U.K.? Building seems to be clearly helpful;  paring is another way to go, if it tends to increase others' incentive to build, but that is tricky. -- do  ncr  am  14:28, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I greatly prefer the idea of building articles rather than getting rid of them, however there is some obvious confusion on the notability issue which i wanted to sort out first. I know considerably more about the UK listings so will probably see if i can find some better documented ones (those with additional online sources, secondary to the listing itself) since that would seem to meet the notability criteria. I believe most, if not all the Grade I* listed buildings are already covered anyway. A Guy into Books (talk) 14:43, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

A nice award

 * Thanks! :) -- do ncr  am  01:27, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Only about 10% done
but you can see where I'm going User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries

Smallbones( smalltalk ) 00:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Could you take a look at User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries. Certainly there are photos and coordinates to add, but that is done in the usual course of editing, I need to check the order, perhaps numbers 1-28 in the first column? Any suggestions appreciated.  Once the format is set, we might get it put into templates like the NRHP tables.
 * I'll probably suggest a whole USA project at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Libraries page in a couple of days. Smallbones( smalltalk ) 16:19, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I like where you are going with it. I think public libraries, or all libraries, are good topics and certainly can/should be covered in list-articles.  I have made some edits in the list-article and asked some questions.  Can we continue at User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries? -- do  ncr  am  18:31, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Federal Buildings
I ran across Federal Building and Federal Building and Post Office today and am perplexed why they both exist. They seem to me to both essentially cover the same thing. I haven't gone through exhaustively, but spot checking indeed finds buildings on both dab pages. I'm thinking of a merger here into Federal Building. I see that you have edited both. Any comments? My inclination is to do this without further discussion. MB 18:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)


 * User:MB, there are multiple places named exactly "Federal Building and Post Office" so it is appropriate to have a disambiguation page for them, although perhaps without all the entries that the page has now. I created the two disambiguation pages a long time ago and might do it differently if I were doing it now.  Perhaps there should be a list-article about Federal buildings, if there is not one, which would replace the Federal Building disambiguation page, much like a list of U.S. post offices replaced a disambiguation page about places named "U.S. Post Office".  I don't think a simple merge of disambiguation pages is the best way to clean it up.  How about discuss at Talk:Federal Building. -- do  ncr  am  18:54, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Vacaville Transportation Center
I found a bunch of RS for VTC but I am not a subscriber and cannot access them all, could you help expand the article for me? I listed a link to the additional articles on its deletion page and could you find a way to buy more time, just look at what I did with Fairfield Transportation Center, this is a major public infrastructure project costing over 12 million dollars and is notable imo.Busguy9 (talk) 01:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Vacaville Historic Places
All done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Busguy9 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Wholesale content removal
Your wholesale removal of content on the Confederate memorials article goes against many editors that added it. It borders on vandalism. You need to get consensus first. If you continue I will report you for edit warring. Legacypac (talk) 22:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The proposal to change scope of the list-article is being discussed at Talk:List of monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America, where Legacypac has now participated, and so have I. -- do ncr  am  22:32, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Investment
Hey there! I just re-launched the WikiProject Investment.

The site has been fully revamped and updated and I would like to invite you the project.

Feel free to check out the project and ping me if you have any questions.

Cheers! WikiEditCrunch (talk) 15:28, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter
Hello, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update: Technology update: General project update: If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The new page backlog is currently at 16,991 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a a day.
 * has created a NPP browser in WMF Labs that allows you to search new unreviewed pages using keywords and categories.
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Your draft article, Draft:List of courthouses in the United States-work


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "List of courthouses in the United States-work".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Legacypac (talk) 18:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I am very heartened to note
that you started the List of Union Civil War monuments and memorials. I was preparing to do it and then you just did it. I have left a series of discussion points on the talk page, I'd very much like to see your thoughts. We do have to proceed carefully, something in my opinion that is NOT being done at the Confederate Monuments article. For example the Minnesota Monument listed in the MN section is actually located in Arkansas. But we are off and running, perhaps we should consider a fast walk instead? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:33, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of List of road interchanges in the United States for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of road interchanges in the United States is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/List of road interchanges in the United States until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Sorry, but I think it has to go, at least in this form. Mangoe (talk) 21:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Quotation issues
I'm afraid that I have to take exception to your recent edit to Pawnee County Courthouse (Nebraska). I think that the insertion of a fairly long quote, even if properly attributed, ran afoul of MOS and of good encyclopedic practices generally.

A number of MOS and policy pages, including WP:QUOTEFARM, MOS:QUOTE, and WP:NFCCP, seem to converge on the idea that quotes should not dominate an article, and should generally be avoided when a paraphrase would serve the purpose equally well. The quote in the Pawnee County Courthouse article makes up on the order of half of the article text, and apart from the rather non-essential subjective description of the pediment sculpture as "delicate", could easily be replaced by a paraphrase with no loss of meaning.

Moreover, the quote appears to give a fairly full description of the sculpture, but doesn't. Per the next sentence after the quote in the nom form, confirmed by the photo, there's a lighted torch in the center of the group, which also has symbolic meaning.

It's certainly easier to slap a quote into an article than to come up with a good copyvio-avoiding paraphrase; but the easiest way isn't always the best. Could I suggest that you go back to the article and replace the quote with a good paraphrase? Ammodramus (talk) 03:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)


 * It's funny that you removed the pediment photo and complained here about the development of the article to include the quote describing it; I earlier received "thanks" from another editor specifically for my developing the article that way today.  I meant to come to your Talk page and thank you for your having provided the photo, as it is nice and serves a good purpose;  it is now used at List of pedimental sculpture in the United States.
 * I think your comparison of quote size to article size is apropos of nothing IMO; it has nothing to do with copyright violation potential, which has to do with percentage of source that is being quoted. But I have no problem with the article being developed to cover more about the courthouse, which would be appropriate, and would seem to reduce your concern anyhow.
 * I focused upon the pediment because I was specifically developing it for the purpose of including it into the list of pedimental sculptures. Right, I liked the "delicate" phrasing, and that is subjective and therefore appropriate to be quoted, avoiding seeming to assert it is factual by using Wikipedia's voice to say it.  Re: your point about the lighted torch, I could revisit the article and think about developing about the pediment more or differently, although I don't agree that there is anything to be specifically concerned about.  It's true that the article does not provide anything close to a comprehensive treatment of the topic (the courthouse).  That is like many NRHP articles, and my edits were certainly an improvement, but I am certainly not against covering more.
 * However, I must say I am turned off by your removal of photo. I don't care to battle about including it, but why should I seek to develop differently or better about the pediment without that illustration being included in the article?  I know from other cases that you dislike second or third photos in an article when the text is not long enough to absorb them well, visually, but in my view the way forward then would be to call for development of more text.  Hmm.  So, how about you restore the photo, then I would develop some more. -- do  ncr  am  04:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I edited some at the article including adding the additional sentence to quote, and I marked it "under construction" and put it into Category:NRHP in progress for now. About the quote, I don't see it easy to paraphrase, as wanted to include as much information as was in the quote, and would include more if there was more.  In past I find it works to summarize from a longer source, but when want same amount of info, that paraphrasing doesn't work;  you can't rewrite in same size without changing meaning and without mischaracterizing by presenting stuff in Wikipedia's voice.  Hmm.
 * Another editor restored the photo, placing it in the See also section below the text. Not sure if that placement or addition of a gallery works.  Photo was removed with edit summary "Left placement sandwiched text between photo and infobox, contra MOS:IMAGELOCATION. Article not long enough for a right-placed photo; as is, infobox extends far below text".  Right, MOS expresses design guidelines which work for longer articles.
 * Hmm, maybe part of the solution is to put full quote into List of pedimental sculptures in the United States. However I think/thought it was proper for there to be more coverage in this article, and have a reduced quote / less coverage there.  I would rather have full quote here.  Hmm. -- do  nor  am  17:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The quote belongs in the article about the building, as does the picture of the pediment. If we start adding descriptions in the pediment list things will quickly get out of hand.  Carptrash (talk) 18:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

WP:MPS
Hello, do you still have the files you downloaded when we created WP:MPS eight years ago? At the time, you had the files for "AK, AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, DE, GA, GU, IA 1-12, ID, LA, MA, MD, NH, NM, NV, NY, PR, RI, SD, TX, UT, VA, VI, VT, WA, WI, WV, WY". Nyttend (talk) 00:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * They're not in my current computer but I will look for them in old backups. I presume you have your complementary set. -- do ncr  am  19:52, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, still do. I was interested in Virginia, of course.  Nyttend (talk) 01:51, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

If interested...
Given the Rice Ridge Fire, perhaps it is time to do the article on a NRHP property in Seeley Lake, Montana that is at some risk. I've had User:Montanabw/Double Arrow Ranch (should be Double Arrow Lodge) in my sandbox for ages and I haven't gotten around to doing it up properly. Got a ton of photos too. Feel free to play in my sandbox if you want to. Montanabw (talk) 23:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Montanabw, I didn't do much, but i think it is okay for mainspace and I moved it there. Feel free to fix it up better, of course.  I googled for news about it and the fire but didn't find anything substantial to put in.  Thanks for going there and taking the pics, hope the food was good! -- do  ncr  am  20:19, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Scarborough
Sorry to reply here, but uh ... it's a long story. The problem is, I don't agree with that concept. Sure, it would work for Scarborough, however that's the only merged municipality that retains it's political integrity. Most people aren't sure where the East York southern boundary is any more. Or the old North York/East York boundary. And quite frankly York - was always a mystery to me. And what do you call Toronto itself? Well, you could use the older merger names. Forest Hill and Swansea. But what of Leaside, which was merged to East York. And Long Branch, Mimico and New Toronto that was merged to Etobicoke. What about forgotten places such as Midway, Carlton, and West Toronto? I don't have an answer I'm afraid though. Nfitz (talk) 04:46, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant (September 16)
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Category:Late 19th and 20th Century Revivals architecture in the United States has been nominated for discussion
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Draft:Mountain High School (Mountain, Wisconsin)
This is an NRHP rush job, since it is needed to resolve the problem of the Mountain High School disambiguation page not containing any articles actually named "Mountain High School". Cheers! bd2412 T 02:28, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! bd2412  T 11:31, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Category:Exotic Revival architecture has been nominated for discussion
Category:Exotic Revival architecture, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mangoe (talk) 19:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Lists of selected mosques
Template:Lists of selected mosques has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 02:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

DR
Just a note to let you know that an AfD you participated in is up for review here. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 20:27, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Boston Common and Public Garden


The article Boston Common and Public Garden has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "No info here that isn't on the respective pages for the Common and the Garden."

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Thanks for Making Articles Better

 * Thanks! It is a pleasure to be cooperating with you at Alfred C. Finn and its Talk page and related articles. :) -- do  ncr  am  18:38, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

List of disappearing gun installations
Given your comment here, would you mind weighing in on the discussion at Talk:Disappearing_gun? Toddst1 (talk) 18:25, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:NRHP redirect cleanup needed
Template:NRHP redirect cleanup needed has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:05, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter
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Deleting comments on a talk page
Unless I'm mistaken, we can archive or delete off-topic comments on a talk page. According to the Talk page guidelines: "Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. If you want to discuss the subject of an article, you can do so at Reference desk instead. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archival or removal." Thus, your edit here lacked a sufficient rationale to justify reverting my edit. Fluous (talk) 11:27, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd appreciate if you refrained from using the article talk page to discuss conduct disputes. It's a violation of the talk page guidelines. By all means, make changes you feel are appropriate. But please discuss any conduct issues you have with me on my talk page; not the article talk page. Again, the article talk page is not the place to discuss conduct issues. I'm more than amenable to those discussions on my talk page. Thank you. Fluous (talk) 20:29, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This was about my reverting Fluous twice upon their deleting or archive-boxing Carptrash's comments at the Confederate monuments list-article. This is continued at User talk:Fluous, merging into a similar ongoing discussion there.  Thank you Fluous for discussing at User talk pages and for offering that the discussion can be at yours. -- do  ncr  am  03:41, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Related Question
Was my hatting appropriate? The editor has repeated his accusations   discussion. If hatting wasn't appropriate what's the best way to resolve this? It's been going on for about a month with me and  with no signs of stopping. D.Creish (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi User:D.Creish, after I reverted Fluous, I did notice your having archive-boxed something. I frankly think Carptrash's comments in general on the page have been civil and constructive.  And that any repetitiveness is actually appropriate too, in the face of really obtuse and repetitive comments going the other way.  Perhaps this can be consolidated with discussion at ongoing User talk:Fluous. -- do  ncr  am  03:45, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. Carptrash, whose interest in that article is genuine, was bullied and harassed. I received similar treatment for my participation. The diffs I linked were examples. My response was to hat what appeared to be personal attacks. If you have time to review it and tell me whether I acted reasonably, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, let me be clear that I have no complaints about Carptrash. D.Creish (talk) 16:57, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!


Happy Halloween!

Hello Doncram: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!   –  North America1000 15:42, 25 October 2017 (UTC) Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Diamond Jo Biography and Building
Hi doncram:

Since you specialize in historic buildings and you are an experienced editor, I seek your counsel. Please see Talk:Joseph "Diamond Jo" Reynolds Office Building and House and Talk:Joseph "Diamond Joe" Reynolds. Thanks, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 13:53, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Walter J. Cook for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Walter J. Cook is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Walter J. Cook until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Rathfelder (talk) 12:26, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Administrative buildings
Hello. After looking at Massachusetts Hall (Harvard University), I wonder if we could create Category:Academic administrative buildings for all the buildings where college/university presidents/provosts/deans have their offices? I don't think every single campus building is notable, but don't you think administrative buildings should be?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, User:Zigzig20s, is the need partly met by List of Old Main buildings? And there is Category:University and college administration buildings in the United States which overlaps with your proposed category.  I am not very much involved with categories, myself, but I suppose that a category of university officials' offices would be possible, if there are any significant ones worth splitting out of broader university-related categories.  There must be a category of university presidents' residences already, or there should be one, because there are numerous separately-NRHP-listed examples.
 * Also I happen to just notice new MacLean Hall (University of the Ozarks) which currently needs appropriate categories. -- do ncr  am  17:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is also disambiguation page Administration Building which includes items that need better categorizing too. -- do ncr  am  18:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Help with a beach in California
Hi Doncram, I recently found (and prodded) Whittel Beach. It was created by a sockpuppet, (who obviously can't respond to my PROD) and I can't confirm if it exists or not, but since you have a vastly superior knowledge of US Geography and related sources, I thought I would mention it here and see if you can confirm if it is real or not. Dysklyver 13:16, 11 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, User:A Den Jentyl Ettien Avel Dysklyver, this source covers a Whittel Marsh is apparently not encroached by development so must have an edge, presumably the beach, on the S.F. Bay. So it doesn't seem made up.  That was from 2nd or 3rd page of Google results;  earlier results are all from Wikipedia nitself or from mirrors of Wikipedia.  But it also does not seem obviously notable on its own.  There are other marshes and sections of cattails or whatever around east and south and west and north of S.F. Bay, not generally known for being "beaches".  Perhaps redirect to some coverage of the marsh elsewhere in wikipedia, but Point Pinole Regional Shoreline only mentions Whittel in the lede (probably added by the same editor), so would need to be worked into the body of the article.  Hope this helps.-- do  ncr  am  15:54, 11November 2017 (UTC)

Your signature
Please be aware that your signature uses deprecated  tags, which are causing Obsolete HTML tags lint errors.

You are encouraged to change
 * → -- do ncr  am

to
 * → -- do ncr  am

Respectfully, Anomalocaris (talk) 19:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, whatever, found it under "Preferences", and removed that. --Doncram (talk) 20:00, 22 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Hmmm ... You're the first to say anything about having to find where the signature is ... maybe I'll add something about Preferences ... Thanks again. —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:00, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

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expertise needed
Can you help me identify the NRHP listing referenced at 930 Poydras.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi User:TonyTheTiger. Expertise? I'm flattered maybe, but i'm happy to try.  It looks like it must be the building holding the restaurant "Blake's on Poydras" (http://blakesonpoydras.com/, which is at 920 Poydras.  Can be seen in Google street view;  it looks like a tiny, sorry little building next to a giant next door at 930.  I figure it must be a contributing building in either NRHP-listed "Upper Central Business District" or in "New Orleans Lower Central Business District", which both have Poydras Street as a boundary.  In the NRHP list-article, both those NRHP names are pipelinked to New Orleans Central Business District, which doesn't seem to include coverage of the NRHP topics.  The NRHP docs have recently become available online for Louisiana.  I'm not oriented yet, but I'll browse in NRHP doc for Lower and NRHP doc and photos for Upper. --Doncram (talk) 06:38, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * 920 and 930 Poydras are on the block between Baronne and O'Keefe. Hmm, the map on p.14 of the Upper one shows that the district boundary partly runs along Poydras, but that is southwest from the block between Baronne and O'Keefe.  So it would seem not to be Upper. But that is interpreting the district to be merely the combination of the Warehouse District and the Lafayette Square District, which I am not sure about.  Page 9 of the Lower one's NRHP doc talks about the Upper one's boundaries exceeding the boundaries of the Warehouse and Lafayette Square districts.  The map on pages 10-11 of the Lower one's NRHP doc shows that the Lower touches across Poydras from 920 and 930, but there is a general "Upper CBD" label on the area outside the "Lower", so maybe 920 is in "Upper" [i misswrote "Lower" temporarily] after all. --Doncram (talk) 07:04, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * My mother and aunt were raised on Baronne (the house was in the family until 2014).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * User:TonyTheTiger: However, the Louisiana state site's version of documents and photos and maps is different, and in this case yields more. It yields this map of the Lower which clearly doesn't cross Poydras to include 920.  Here is the link to "Upper"'s info at the state site.  Upper's info includes link to this map of the Upper which does in fact include part of the block of Poydras between Baronne and O'Keefe, at the very top left corner of the red-outlined area.  It must include 920 but does not include 930 at the corner of O'Keefe. This is part 1 of another map showing lots, which corroborates, showing 920 within a blue boundary.  And this part 2 continuation of that last map includes a key explaining the blue boundary is for the 1993 boundary increase from the original 1990 boundaries.  So the answer does seem to be 920, and that it is in the NRHP-listed Upper Central Business District, within a 1993 boundary increase.


 * Further, the NRHP document text from the state site explicitly mentions 920, on page 9, as item #22 in a list of added buildings: "'#22: 918-20 Poydras. Contributing. One of seven three story party wall masonry buildings built in 1840; commercial space on ground floor and residential above. (The three immediately next to #22 have been demolished.) Present two story wrought iron gallery is modern, although it mimics the look of old New Orleans. Counted as contributing in contrast t #10 because it does not overwhelm the original building. Also, shopfront replaced.'"
 * Note the NRHP texts at the Louisiana state site are weird: they are scans of just the description (section 7) and significance (section 8) sections of an unseen complete NRHP document;  they omit the introductory sections and the section 11 author and date of preparation.
 * So 920 Poydras is your building. --Doncram (talk) 07:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose that, after figuring this out, I oughta create proper articles for the Lower and Upper NRHP districts, either as separate articles or as sections in the New Orleans Central Business District article. These would be Lower Central Business District and Upper Central Business District (or Lower Central Business District (New Orleans, Louisiana) and Upper Central Business District (New Orleans, Louisiana). --Doncram (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I trust you to create the appropriate articles and tweak 930 Poydras accordingly. Thanks for your clear expertise. I think it currently reads as if there is a building listed, but you show that the issue is about a contributing property.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:28, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , I interpreted the above as if you were going to create Lower Central Business District and Upper Central Business District. If this is not the case, I can stub them out, but I would need help cleaning them up.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * They are messy topics. I was hesitating partly because I wasn't sure if they should be covered as sections in the larger business district article, but I think now there is enough detail for them to be split out from it right away.  (Although if someone else thinks they should be merged into the larger topic, I would probably be okay with that happening, too.)  Okay, I started on the "Lower" one, will plug along on it and will start "Upper" one too if you don't start it first (which would be fine by me if you did). If you have some kind of deadline for a DYK or anything, let me know, otherwise I will take a little while on each of them though I will persist along. --Doncram (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sometimes when I do districts, I create maps in which I clearly define the boundaries. I am envisioning a map showing the three revised boundaries, but I am not sure I understand where the boundaries should be. No rush right now.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)


 * If you will be able to create maps, which i don't do myself, that would hugely help clean up the messiness about describing the districts. A map for "Lower" would be based primarily on this map showing the original plus two boundary increases (from the Louisiana state site, not yet properly covered in the article). Perhaps it could include selected landmarks;  i'm not sure what landmarks will seem most salient;  maybe more will be clear after the "Lower" article gets developed a bit more, including to begin to cover the 2014 increase.
 * A map for "Upper" could cover its original area + increases + the two local and/or national historic districts it subsumed (Warehouse District and Lafayette Square district).
 * Your interest is really helpful. Neat that you have a family connection to the area.  I have been vaguely aware of the inadequate coverage of NRHP districts in New Orleans for a long time.  Do let's keep chatting. --Doncram (talk) 19:38, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Also I see that Poydras Street exists as an article and now links to the two districts; it will be appropriate to provide some more info there about the specific buildings/blocks of Poydras which are in the Lower and Upper districts.  I suppose other New Orleans street/avenue articles should also be connected, including Canal Street, New Orleans as one that overlaps with Lower. --Doncram (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there an upper district map with the clear presentation of the expansions like that for the lower?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I looked at some of the content related to Poydras Street. I am unable to understand the contributing properties to the Upper and Lower district original submissions. I believe that both include Poydras Street addresses, but I am not sure. Please advise. Also, I am not sure what is going on with the second expansion of the Lower District.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You can see that I manually produced something resembling this for the Lower CBD as a main image. Let me know if you have a similar source to work from for the Upper CBD.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , can you give me some feedback here. Also, do you know what happened to Elkman's NRHP tool}?-[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger] (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:40, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , that tool is still available, at http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/ (with no "2"). It uses the NRIS database through some date in 2010.
 * I got sort of stuck with situation for the Upper CBD Lower CBD that I think the National Register reported on listing first boundary increase but did not report on listing the second one, although it recorded it in a year-end "pending" report, while the state of Louisiana reports on both. It may be the case, probably is the case, that the second increase was in fact listed but failed to appear in the "Weekly listings" report, which has sometimes happened.  Actually now I see the map you produced covers both increases, which is fine and good in my opinion.  Thank you for that, it is great!
 * For the Upper CBD, it seems both later increases (and other modifications) were recorded by the National Register and received reference numbers. The second change changed the boundaries only to add two buildings, and its text is more about having reclassified some "contributing buildings" into non-contributing buildings and vice versa.  For a map, there is a hard to read image on last page of text for the 2nd change (for which I can't tell if it distinguishes between original vs. any increases).  The Louisiana state site mentions that the listing covers the "Update 8/12/93 roughly bounded by O`Keefe, Poydras, Convention Center Blvd., and the Expressway (B.R. 90)".  It provides link to this map (which also does not distinguish between original vs. any increase).  But it further includes link to two-part map map part 1 and  map part 2 which clearly shows the entire district with first increase identified and with second increase identified.  That two-part map is what you need. --Doncram (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Historic districts in New Orleans
Notes:
 * HDs in New Orleans deserve comprehensive coverage, e.g. perhaps in a section of New Orleans, Louisiana article if not already covered there.
 * Perhaps a navigation template amongst the districts, national and local, would help.
 * This quick overview of NOLA historic districts, post-Katrina lists 20 NRHP districts and 13 local districts. NRHP ones, displaying NRHP names for them:
 * 1. Algiers Point, infobox but no NRHP doc yet
 * 2. Broadmoor Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Broadmoor, New Orleans
 * 3. Bywater Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Bywater, New Orleans
 * 4. Carrollton Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Carrollton, New Orleans
 * 5. Central City Historic District, no infobox, no NRHP doc, not mentioned in article pipelinked: Central City, New Orleans
 * 6. Esplanade Ridge Historic District pipelinked to Faubourg St. John, no infobox no NRHP doc not mentioned
 * 7. Faubourg Marigny
 * 8. Garden District
 * 9. Gentilly Terrace
 * 10. Holy Cross
 * 11. Irish Channel
 * 12. Lower Central Business District
 * 13. Lower Garden District
 * 14. Mid-City
 * 15. New Marigny
 * 16. Parkview
 * 17. South Lakeview
 * 18. Uptown
 * 19. Upper Central Business District
 * 20. Vieux Carre

Other comments welcome. --Doncram (talk) 20:43, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This seems to be map datasets about each of the districts.
 * Since my mother and aunt grew up near the Garden District, New Orleans, that is the most interesting district to me. However. that article has a lot of content. The only issue is do we want a neighborhood and a historic district to share an article. There was a time when I was Wikiing 50 hours a week and I would have decided to take over New Orleans. I don't have the time I use to have to do something like that. I hope to get to making a map soon.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:46, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting
As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter
Hello, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update: Outreach and Invitations:
 * The new page backlog is currently at 12713 pages. Please consider reviewing even just a few pages each day! If everyone helps out, it will really put a dent in the backlog.
 * Currently the backlog stretches back to March and some pages in the backlog have passed the 90 day Google index point. Please consider reviewing some of them!
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New Year New Page Review Drive
 * A backlog drive is planned for the start of the year, beginning on January 1st and running until the end of the month. Unique prizes will be given in tiers for both the total number of reviews made, as well as the longest 'streak' maintained.
 * Note: quality reviewing is extremely important, please do not sacrifice quality for quantity.

General project update: If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. —  TonyBallioni (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC) 
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James Hugh McNeilly's house
Hi. I intend to create James Hugh McNeilly, and I read in the comment section of this unreliable link that his house is listed on the NRHP. However, I can't find it, can you?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The assertion seems very clear, and I tend to believe it. Of course you can email the author of the assertion.  It could easily be a contributing building in a historic district, not an individually listed house, however.  House is within one block of Glen Leven Presbyterian Church according to that assertion, and that church is located at 3906 Franklin Pike, Nashville, per google.  I'll browse in historic districts at National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee. --Doncram (talk) 22:54, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * But I don't know if the church might have moved, but the Franklin Pike address is near Glen Leven Drive, suggesting not. Longview (Nashville, Tennessee) is the only NRHP located near there, at least from coordinates available in the Davidson County list-article. Hmm, i think i am stuck. --Doncram (talk) 23:06, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * [Photo of sanctuary of current Glen Leven Presbyterian Church] shows a modern sanctuary, so perhaps the church did relocate? This text states"In 1890 the Glen Leven Church was organized in a southern suburb, Waverly Place. It was from members of the First, Moore Memorial and Westminster Churches. It has grown with the growth of the suburb, and with its attractive church building, and its equipment it has fine prospects of large growth. It is under the ministry of Rev. Dr. J. H. McNeilly."
 * According to this one on Glen Leven, it moved to its present location in 1960s. "In 1890, he [John M. Thompson] and other neighbors established the Glen Leven Presbyterian Church downtown (it moved to its present location adjacent to the mansion in 1961-62). The church hired former Army of Tennessee chaplain, James H. McNeilly, as its minister."  So need to look at downtown historic districts. --Doncram (talk) 23:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, when it was downtown it was presumably not named "Glen Leven" church, it would have taken that name when it moved to next to the Glen Leven mansion. Two mentions in google search on "john m. thompson church 1890 Glen Leven" yield "First Presbyterian Church".


 * "ORR for many years was a member of the First Presbyterian Church at its downtown location, and in 'recent years had been, a member of the Downtown Presbyterian Church. ... 'it relates that John Thompson's son, John M. Thompson, "married Mary McConnel, daughter of John Overton, and has one daughter, Mary."
 * www.mtsuhistpres.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Glen-Leven-HSR-1.2011.pdf "With her passing, the Glen Leven homeplace legally became the sole property of her son, John M. Thompson. A year later, Mary Hamilton Thompson married Samuel Holt Orr, a banker in Nashville, at the First Presbyterian Church. She became active as an officer in the Ladies' Battlefield. 192 Jordan,".
 * There are also mentions of "Downtown Presbyterian Church". History of downtown presbyterian church describes split of First Church moving out to suburbs.  Downtown PC is at 154 Fifth Ave. N., at corner of Fifth and Church.  That church is NRHP-listed and a National Historic Landmark: Downtown Presbyterian Church (Nashville).  Okay, that suggests Fifth Avenue Historic District (Nashville, Tennessee) which per NRIS is "Roughly bounded by Church and Union Sts. and 4th, 5th, and 6th Aves" is a district which could contain the 1890 house of James Hugh McNeilly.  "The district served as the center for retail activity, in Nashville. Buildings in the district were constructed between 1870 and 1930," per [ https://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/HistoricalCommission/docs/Publications/NR_nashville_map.pdf this map/guide].
 * Unfortunately the NRHP document for Fifth Ave HD from National Park Service is yielding a file system error message. So the next step is to request the Fifth Avenue HD document and photos from the National Park Service, by email (see wp:NRHPHELP) and hope for PDF file(s) to be sent.  I think that's it for me, for now at least. --Doncram (talk) 23:50, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No, going back, maybe First/Downtown is not associated with McNeilly, except as source of part of the congregation of the Waverly Place church? Or when Glen Leven church was built next to the mansion, maybe the Waverly Place one moved there and some additional congregation from First merged in, too.  Looking at Google map, Waverly Place looks to be outside downtown, on the way south, going towards Glen Leven.  Maybe it was still "downtown" relative to Glen Leven though.  Hmm, the Waverly Place Historic District NRHP doc and photos are available.  The NRHP document mentions there being several churches, one of which could have once been the church that McNeilly was at. Hmm, should probably create Waverly Place Historic District (currently a redlink) to receive whatever gets developed here, and to link to/from your McNeilly article. --Doncram (talk) 00:04, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I tend to shy away from historic districts, as it's hard to mention everything. I prefer articles about specific buildings.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Thompson, Gibel, and Asmus
Hi again. I'm trying to figure out what Thompson's full name was. Gibel was Henry Gibel and Asmus was Fred Asmus. Any idea please?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Now I don't know which Thompson you want, or why, but there is a John McDonald Thompson (1837 - 1911), per this Thompson geneology page, which also mentions a John Mark and a John Matilda and a John Moore, not clear if any of those M's were a middle initial preceding a Thompson last name. This is entirely out of context for me now. --Doncram (talk) 01:40, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I can't find an obituary of Fred Asmus on Newspapers.com, unless he died in another state...Zigzig20s (talk) 01:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The three architects designed the Mitchell House (Lebanon, Tennessee) and other buildings. But they each designed buildings on their own as well.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:52, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Ah, not the Thompson associated with Glen Leven Church. There's some info about Swiss-born architect Henry Gibel (1859-1906) in the NRHP nom doc for Third Baptist Church (Nashville, Tennessee), i.e. in . --Doncram (talk) 02:03, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I saw that he was born in Switzerland but can't find an RS for it yet.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The NRHP doc for Third Baptist Church is a reliable source. One of its references, by the way, is "Interviews with Emma Gibel Mason £ John L. Connely, Aug. 9, 1979".  I presume Emma Gibel Mason would have known he was from Zurich, and there is nothing controversial, no reason to question that source (the NRHP doc). --Doncram (talk) 02:25, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Got it. By the way I think our info in the Nashville Arcade article is wrong; it looks like they designed it.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm done with Gibel for now. It looks like there may have been more than one Asmuses, so I listed the firm instead. I wonder if the American National Bank Building is still there.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguating move for DeWitt Post Office
In September, you have asked me to redo your move of DeWitt Post Office in January 2017 that I have undone hours later. However, Special:PrefixIndex/DeWitt Post Office only lists that article and the redirect. I have thus again reverted the move. A discussion has been started at Talk:DeWitt Post Office. Your move is likely to be controversial. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the notice. I commented there.  Hope you don't mind my being a bit cranky there.  Although I complain that i think it is your move that is controversial, it really doesn't hugely matter. --Doncram (talk) 18:48, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Donald W. Southgate
I'm working on Donald W. Southgate. Let me know if you can find other buildings he designed on the NRHP, besides the high school. Is the West End United Methodist Church really not listed?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm done with this article for now. You may want to proofread/improve it.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:40, 16 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I use this architect search tool out of the suite of NRHP tools. This yields only places listed before some date mid-2010.   Searching on "Southgate" yields one other Southgate's work which is listed on the NRHP, and these two of Donald Southgate's:
 * Thomas P. Kennedy Jr. House, 6231 Hillsboro Pike Forest Hills, TN Southgate, Donald
 * West End High School, 3529 West End Ave. Nashville, TN Southgate, Donald --> West End High School (Nashville, Tennessee) is the article
 * It is possible that the church was listed later than 2010, or is not listed. Lots of churches prefer not to get NRHP listing.  Okay I will browse the article. --Doncram (talk) 01:37, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've added a few more houses thanks to the Kennedy form.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

RyeMabee
You may be interested in RyeMabee. There is more on the NRHP form but it is slightly off topic, about a former house.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:29, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

User group for Military Historians
Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Richard H. Martin, Jr.
Greetings Doncram. Thank you for your help with listings. Are there any for this fellow? Merry Christmas aand Happy Holidays. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, searching on "Martin,Richard" i find this:
 * Albert S. Sholes House, 1599 S. Alpine St. Cornelius, Oregon (Martin,Richard,Jr.), NRHP-listed.
 * Whose NRHP nomination mentions more: "The architect was Richard Martin, Jr., of Portland, who, from 1888 to 1896 or 1897 had been a principal in the noted firm McCaw and Martin. McCaw and Martin produced major Portland landmarks in the Richardsonian Romanesque Style which have been listed in the National Register. These include the New Market Annex (1889), West Hall, University of Portland (1891), and the Dekum Building (1892)."
 * Then searching on McCaw, i find:
 * The Dekum, 519 SW 3rd St. Portland, OR (McCaw, Martin & White), NRHP-listed
 * First Presbyterian Church of Portland, 1200 SW Alder Portland, OR (McCaw,William F.), NRHP-listed
 * First Regiment Armory Annex, 123 NW Eleventh Ave. Portland, OR (McCaw & Martin), NRHP-listed
 * Tahlequah Carnegie Library, 120 S. College Tahlequah, OK (McCaw and Bellis), NRHP-listed probably not related
 * West Hall, 5000 N. Willamette Blvd. Portland, OR (McCaw, Martin & White), NRHP-listed
 * These are all NRHP-listed by some date mid-2010. The NRIS database version I accessed only reports up to then. Hope this helps. --Doncram (talk) 15:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Great! Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 20:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

New Orleans historic landmark help
Happy Holidays to you. I am halfway through a short visit to my birthplace of New Orleans. On this special day of celebration, I have created an article for the Xavier University Main Building, Convent and Library, which is important to my family because my parents, grandparents, maternal aunt and uncle and many other cousins of various degrees have attended Xavier University of Louisiana. Various sources claim that the main building is a city landmark, but I have found a historic landmark website for the city that does not include buildings at the University. Can you help me understand what is going on here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:35, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't find it either. I find my way to this list of New Orleans and CBD landmarks from this page, but it doesn't include any Drexel Dr. or Xavier or Main or Library or Convent mentions that are relevant.  Offhand there does not seem to be any coverage of New Orleans local landmarks by a list-article in Wikipedia, while it would be quite reasonable to have one (and would be included along with other U.S. state or local lists under WikiProject Historic sites, wp:HSITES). --Doncram (talk) 17:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * My cousin told me to put a call into https://prcno.org. I have left them a message and await a response. I may take a look at the NO landmarks down the line.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

George D. Waller
Hello. You may be interested in George D. Waller!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Draft:List of hotels in Barcelona concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:List of hotels in Barcelona, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:38, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I moved the draft to User:Doncram/List of hotels in Barcelona and removed the AFC header. I think its list of hotels having articles should be merged into barely-started table for Barcelona hotels within List of hotels in Spain. --Doncram (talk) 23:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
 Merry Christmas! Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten! ¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua! God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus! Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce! Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством! 圣诞节快乐！~ メリークリスマス！~ 메리 크리스마스! สุขสันต์วันคริสต์มาส! ~ Selamat Hari Natal! ~ Giáng sinh an lành! Hello, Doncram! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! &#8213; Buster7  &#9742;   17:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Spread the WikiLove and leave other users this message by adding {{subst:Multi-language Season's Greetings}}


 * I love your additions to the Mural List. Hope you don't mind my editing the Post Office articles you are creating. Best, &#8213; Buster7  &#9742;   17:21, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Buster7, it's nice to be appreciated. This is about new or recently expanded articles like Anthony United States Post Office (Anthony, Kansas) and corresponding additions to List of United States post office murals.  By all means, please proceed with your beneficial edits.  I am very glad that you've done so much with the list-article over time. cheers, --Doncram (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

New Years new page backlog drive
Hello, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Announcing the NPP New Year Backlog Drive!

We have done amazing work so far in December to reduce the New Pages Feed backlog by over 3000 articles! Now is the time to capitalise on our momentum and help eliminate the backlog!

The backlog drive will begin on January 1st and run until January 29th. Prize tiers and other info can be found HERE.

Awards will be given in tiers in two categories:


 * The total number of reviews completed for the month.
 * The minimum weekly total maintained for all four weeks of the backlog drive.

NOTE: It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing. Despite our goal of reducing the backlog as much as possible, please do not rush while reviewing.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. — TonyBallioni (talk) 20:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Belated best wishes for a happy 2018
== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 15:33, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Amendment request
You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks, SarekOfVulcan (talk)  16:54, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Rowan County Courthouse
Thanks for your thanks. I didn't even realize it was a new stub by you. Total coincidence. Just fyi, I was on Talk:Kim Davis for unrelated reasons and someone put a photo there that got me curious. Anyway, nice job. Station1 (talk) 23:57, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Arbitration motion regarding Doncram

 * The following is cross-posted from the Arbitration Committee noticeboard.

The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:

For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) 23:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard
 * I have filed an arbitration enforcement request because of your comments at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard; please see Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. Nyttend (talk) 02:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Roscoe DeWitt
For some reason I can't find Roscoe DeWitt's obituaries on Newspapers.com...Zigzig20s (talk) 22:56, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't access newspapers.com. Am drawing a blank on which ones exactly, but some editors active at wp:AFD do access it regularly.
 * I did look in the NRIS database for Roscoe DeWitt but don't find anything to add that is not already covered in the article. --Doncram (talk) 04:34, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * User:E.M.Gregory, can you possibly help out Zigzig20s? --Doncram (talk) 15:11, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I see quite a bit of coverage, but I don't see an obit on Proquest. Probably because he was building classical in the modern period.  There are quite a few discussions of his work and career, for example, lots of articles on the selection process for the team that renovated the Capitol.  And he was one of the design team of seven architects who created the James Madison Memorial Building; Ada Louise Huxtable dismisses them as a group who were in "the rear guard rather than the vanguard of architecture" producing a "dated and lackluster design." (ARCHITECTURE VIEW: A Bureaucratic Behemoth of a Library; A Bureaucratic Behemoth of A Library; Huxtable, Ada Louise. New York Times (New York, N.Y. [New York, N.Y]04 May 1980: D29.)  Working in an outdated style is the sort of thing that makes the editor of the obit page pass you by.  Obit decisions follow the fashion of the moment because they compete for the attention of readers.  That said, there probably are obits out there somewhere (all news archives are incomplete) and there is more than enough important documented work and sourcing to establish notability in proquest newspapers.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:02, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

AN
Mentioned you at Administrators'_noticeboard. - Sitush (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter
Hello, thank you for your efforts in reviewing new pages!

Backlog update: New Year Backlog Drive results:
 * The new page backlog is currently at 3819 unreviewed articles, with a further 6660 unreviewed redirects.
 * We are very close to eliminating the backlog completely; please help by reviewing a few extra articles each day!
 * We made massive progress during the recent four weeks of the NPP Backlog Drive, during which the backlog reduced by nearly six thousand articles and the length of the backlog by almost 3 months!

General project update: If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. 20:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ACTRIAL will end it's initial phase on the 14th of March. Our goal is to reduce the backlog significantly below the 90 day index point by the 14th of March. Please consider helping with this goal by reviewing a few additional pages a day.
 * Reviewing redirects is an important and necessary part of New Page Patrol. Please read the guideline on appropriate redirects for advice on reviewing redirects. Inappropriate redirects can be re-targeted or nominated for deletion at RfD.

Your draft article, User:Doncram/List of alternative history books


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "List of alternative history books".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Home Lander (talk) 22:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I just removed some AFC-related header stuff from this page which is in my userspace, not in draftspace. Was the header why it was targeted by you?  Home Lander, please let me know if my edit succeeded in removing it from your future attention or not.  It remains as the beginning basis for a list-article that I may create sometime in the future and I believe it should not be anyone's concern. --Doncram (talk) 22:12, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Yep, the header left it vulnerable to G13 deletion, see Category:G13 eligible AfC submissions. You're fine to keep it. Home Lander (talk) 22:16, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 11
Newsletter • February 2018

Check out this month's issue of the WikiProject X newsletter, with plans to renew work with a followup grant proposal to support finalising the deployment of CollaborationKit!

-— Isarra ༆ 21:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

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Edwin A. Keeble
Hi. Not sure if you're able to find more NRHP-listed buildings by Edwin A. Keeble?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:20, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, User:Zigzig20s. Hmm.  A website that I have used in the past is not working now.  Trying another way, googling "Keeble" and "nationalregisterofhistoricplaces", i find these two:
 * Milliken Building, 1039 College St., Bowling Green, Kentucky (Architect, builder, or engineer:	Shaub, Clarence, Keeble, Edwin A.)
 * In National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee, there is P.D. Houston Jr. House, Warfield and Keeble
 * I would have thought these probably are all the Keeble items listed on NRHP before some date mid-2010, but I see the Keeble article already lists a different one that this search did not uncover, oh well. Hope this helps. --Doncram (talk) 18:19, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The Houston house, yes. Probably not the Kentucky one, unless there is a very clear RS.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:23, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Zigzig20s, the NRHP nomination document for it doesn't seem to be immediately available for it, but here is a source on Milliken Building having been designed by Nashville architect Edwin Keewble. And this, too. --Doncram (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. It's ugly. No PDF though. His father worked for the Louisville and Nashville Railroad, so there is a Kentucky connection.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:42, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I dunno if i agree about how it looks. Perhaps without for sale signs, and in better light?  Have just started article for it.  The Kentucky connection is more that Milliken was classmate with Keeble, per first of those two sources. --Doncram (talk) 18:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't like International Style. By the way, I think Edwin Augustus Keeble was his paternal grandfather but we need an RS. Perhaps from his father's obituaries...Zigzig20s (talk) 19:48, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Edwin A. Keeble's wife
I wonder if his wife was related to Thomas W. Beasley.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:40, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Is this listed please? I think her family may have owned this.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:51, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yep, Hancock Hall is a contributing building in La Grange Historic District (La Grange, Tennessee), a new article :) --Doncram (talk) 18:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I would rather see separate articles about each building, but maybe later.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:20, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Rock Jolly
Hi. Would you like to upload the pictures on Wikimedia Commons if they are copyright-free please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:52, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Wessyngton (Cedar Hill, Tennessee)
Hi. I watched the youtube documentary about this (in the external links) and at one point it says it was "the largest tobacco plantation in the United States". However, we would need a text-based RS to add it to the article I think. I am surprised it wasn't created before if that was indeed the case.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:50, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I have used Youtube videos as sources for some historic site articles before. I noticed the new article yesterday, and do think it seems important/surprising not to be covered yet.  I thought it could be named simply Wessyngton, too, which I thought just now would be a redlink, but which seems to be a redirect to Washington, Tyne and Wear (and I think not justified at target). --Doncram (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think you could move it. If I remember correctly, I think the documentary also says that George Augustine Washington was the largest slaveholder in Tennessee, but we would need a better RS. He did own 274 slaves at one point--that's a lot. The other thing to look into is his business ties to the Louisville and Nashville Railroad--I wonder if they used indentured servants after the war, and if they were his former slaves. But this may not have been published in RS yet!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:30, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I modified Wessyngton, which was a redirect, into a disambiguation page. --Doncram (talk) 22:39, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:08, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials
Hi. I wonder if you'd like to help with the List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials please? I was BOLD and created it, and it needs a ton of work--references and expansion...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:08, 9 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I have contributed some, and User:Carptrash contributed more with better detail and references. It is looking like quite a good start. --Doncram (talk) 20:58, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes it is! Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:19, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Tejano Monument
The Tejano Monument almost seems to me like a rejection of the Mexican-American War, which the settlers won, doesn't it? Were there protests against it?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:53, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "settlers?" Carptrash (talk) 22:03, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think the American settlers won, didn't they?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I think Carptrash means the Comanche and Kiowa and other native American settlers were there before. They didn't win anything.  And I don't think the Spanish settlers (before 1810 or 1821) or the Mexican settlers won either.  :( --Doncram (talk) 22:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The United States won the war! Historical fact.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:40, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

War Memorial Building
The War Memorial Building might be the War Memorial Auditorium.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:26, 12 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks! That was about War Memorial Auditorium (Nashville, Tennessee) (after move).  There were lots of incoming links to "War Memorial Auditorium" meaning various venues in Fort Lauderdale, FL, in Buffalo, NY, and elsewhere.  Created combo dab page War Memorial Auditorium, and disambiguated incoming links from everywhere. --Doncram (talk) 14:11, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Good idea. This article needs a lot of work actually...Zigzig20s (talk) 17:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Just FYI, WP:USPLACE is for articles on places, not the disambiguation policy for things that share the same name. Typically, if a facility is the only such building in a given state, we don't need to include the city to disambiguate. Precedent in other articles for buildings (particularly high schools), only uses the city name in parenthesis when there is more than one instance in the same state (such as Lakewood High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Lakewood High School (Hebron, Ohio)) where "Lakewood High School (Ohio)" could still mean two different schools. Lakewood High School (Florida) is the only one in the state, so the city isn't needed to differentiate it from other schools in different states. Since the entire title has to be included and piped every time the article is linked, the more concise the disambiguation, the better. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:05, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * User:JonRidinger, I disagree about what is best. There was a horrible mix of usages in this version of "War Memorial Stadium" disambiguation page, until I just moved various pages and revised the disambiguation page.  Standardizing disambiguation phrases to follow City, State convention for U.S. places is better for readers.  For one reason, it is consistent with disambiguation page ordering by state then city which serves readers better.  And it improves what shows in categories for readers, instead of begging the question of "where?" to states without cities or cities without states.  I do recognize there has been variety in practice, and in particular that high schools have been disambiguated as you describe.  For the most part that works okay for high schools, since rarely is there more than school of the same name in the same state, but I actually think it would be better to give the City name in their disambiguation, too.  For many other types of things, such as historic sites listed in the National Register, the City, State convention (with USPlace exceptions for a few major cities) has mostly been followed.  I think Wikipedia-wide practice is more with City, State than not. --Doncram (talk) 19:16, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * You are correct that there isn't much consistency, but there also isn't any requirement, so perhaps it needs discussed before mass changes are made (Memorial Stadium (disambiguation) is another one that has no consistency in disambiguation). As I understand it, the title should be as direct and succinct as possible. Will a reader have a much more difficult time finding the stadium article if it's "War Memorial Stadium (Arkansas)" vs "War Memorial Stadium (Little Rock, Arkansas)"? For editors, it's that much more work to type and pipe that link every time it comes up in articles, but I can't say it provides much help for the reader since for the vast majority, since they'll likely be following a piped link anyway. If they're searching, disambiguation pages serve the role of having slightly more description if a reader truly doesn't realize that "War Memorial Stadium (Arkansas)" is the one in Little Rock.
 * Also, hatnotes for similar names aren't needed if the disambiguation is clear in the title, especially where parentheses are used. A hatnote would be for cases where one title has assumed PRIMARYTOPIC, so doesn't have any kind of disambiguation, and would likely get readers looking for one of the other uses (such as FirstEnergy Stadium) or has a natural disambiguation, but a very close spelling or naming order (like AT&T Stadium). --JonRidinger (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2018 (UTC)


 * User:JonRidinger, I do agree that hatnotes for similar names aren't needed, if disambiguation is clear in the title. I left unnecessary hatnotes in place in some moves/edits that I made, so as to cause less surprise/disruption for any "owners" of articles, but I would expect that those should be removed eventually.  So I agree with you on this.
 * Also I agree that big campaigns of moves should not be embarked upon without some discussion somewhere. I boldly did just now address the "War Memorial Stadium" and "War Memorial Auditorium" cases, but these seemed very finite topic areas to me, and clearly something needed to be done:  it turned out that there were lots of articles meaning a Fort Lauderdale FL or a Buffalo NY site or etc. which were erroneously linking to the Nashville TN auditorium or to an obscure West Virginia stadium.  My creation/editing of disambiguation pages and incoming links definitely improved the horribly messy situation.  This was not a big campaign of moves unsettling a consensus or consistent treatment;  this was creating a consistent treatment for the first time for a few limited names.
 * There does seem to be a need to have a big discussion by RFC somewhere, about the general applicability and/or extension of USPLACE to parenthetical disambiguation. I have wide experience in article naming across tens of thousands of NRHP-listed places and across about 4,000 disambiguation pages which include NRHP-listed buildings or places and other buildings or places.  I have been working up to starting such a big RFC.  My thinking generally is that there needs to be discussion about three types of buildings or places, with: 1) carving out schools separately (which have generally been disambiguated as you describe by a corps of editors focused upon them), with 2) carving out county courthouses (where there has been argument that (State) disambiguation should be the default because readers should get where the place is located from the "Clark County Courthouse (STATE)" name alone, vs. others thinking that begs the "where?" question because most readers don't know about counties or where the county seats are, and 3) all other U.S. buildings where IMO the usage of wp:USPLACE guideline seems fairly obviously helpful.  Do you happen to see any different important carveouts?  Do you see other important issues?  I could possibly open an RFC relatively soon and would notify disambiguation wikiproject, wp:SCHOOLS, wp:USPLACE, wp:NRHP, wp:US;  this discussion right now might be helpful towards getting it to happen. --Doncram (talk) 22:21, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi)
Are you able to find RS about the War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi) please? I can't even find it on Emporis...Zigzig20s (talk) 01:33, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * This is what i used in the list article, is it not RS in your view? It had video showing the stuff. --Doncram (talk) 01:41, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, but are there more RS so we can create an article about the building please?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay. Hmm, it seems to be located on the Old Capitol Green (the video mentions that), which is itself NRHP-listed though there's not an article for it yet.  See NRHP nomination document (which is very old for an NRHP (NRHP started in 1968), listed in 1969, and unfortunately therefore the nomination document quality is not very good.  But it is a contributing resource in the NRHP, so an article on it could have an NRHP infobox indicating that, which helps a lot.  The accompanying photos document mentions an attached map, which is not attached.  The aeriel photo must show the War Memorial Building, i am not sure which one it is yet though.  NRHP listing is Capitol Green (Jackson, Mississippi), within National Register of Historic Places in Hinds County, Mississippi. --Doncram (talk) 02:13, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Zigzig20s, okay, now we have a proof of concept, i.e. an NRHP infobox for it as a contributing resource, and with coordinates from Google. It is a big spectacular thing, the big structure to the right in the aerial photo.  NRIS lists a Peter A. Vandorn as an architect or builder associated with the Capitol Green;  this seems to be Peter Aaron Van Dorn who mapped out Jackson:  "Below is Peter Van Dorn’s layout for Jackson, containing parks or greens interspersed with areas for public buildings, following a checkerboard plan suggested by Thomas Jefferson."(Peter Van Dorn (1773-1837)).
 * It is such a major structure/monument/memorial, placed right next to the (Old) Capitol, that there must exist substantial coverage of its planning, design, construction, dedication, etc. --Doncram (talk) 03:30, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It was built in 1939 as a Works Progress Administration project, per photo caption type info at Historic American Buildings Survey, at a pic of capital of column. --Doncram (talk) 03:40, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * War Memorial Building, at the Living New Deal, has info about architects, etc. --Doncram (talk) 03:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And New Deal in Mississippi: War Memorial Building source at MissPreservation.com] has (DYK hook?) anecdote about expensive memorial unveiled, only to find many dates incorrect, someone thought it sounded better to say Battle of New Orleans was 1812 rather than actual 1815, because, ya know, it was in the War of 1812 and we don't want to confuse people. --Doncram (talk) 03:53, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Why don't you start the stub and I'll expand it?Zigzig20s (talk) 05:01, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The architect was Edgar Lucian Malvaney.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Like for the discussion at Talk:List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials, where it developed that List of Texas Revolution monuments and memorials (currently a redlink) is a feasible article. I dunno, I would be happy if you would start them, especially if you would be willing to take them through DYK process, which I am not.  I am happy as a supporter/follower for these, Dear Leader. :) --Doncram (talk) 21:13, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 20:28, 18 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Moved to User:Doncram/Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant to avoid its deletion. --Doncram (talk) 23:05, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Texas Revolution monuments
I am very much looking forward to working on this as a team. Perhaps we should start a stub under construction?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:01, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, I would help. If you want to start a draft, then Draft:List of Texas Revolution monuments and memorials (currently a redlink) would be a natural drafting site.
 * Also I am hoping you will start War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi) (perhaps at Draft:War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi), currently a redlink).
 * Perhaps you could copy-paste previous discussion, sources lists, etc. to draft Talk pages, to keep the stuff together. I'm getting confused about what is proposed and where notes are.
 * Please do go ahead. User:Carptrash will probably contribute again too, I would expect. --Doncram (talk) 01:27, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * No need for a draft. We can go live under construction.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:46, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Just started War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi).Zigzig20s (talk) 03:14, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I suggest creating separate articles about the several buildings on the capitol. The Old Mississippi State Capitol may be one of them. The Mississippi Department of Archives and History Building is another one and I am not sure if it is the same building as the William F. Winter Archives & History Building (this). There is also a Confederate Monument (Jackson, Mississippi) (this), and the Museum of Mississippi History, the Mississippi Civil Rights Museum and the Eudora Welty Library... We could still have an article about the Capitol Green (Jackson, Mississippi) once we have covered the main buildings, especially if we can get a map or aerial photography, but that won't happen until we can see things more clearly.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Frosard W. Budington House
Re Frosard W. Budington House: I hoped you would see that entering the output unit can lead to errors such as  in. Using the default output unit is often best. Johnuniq (talk) 03:01, 24 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Ja, "ha" as abbreviation for hectare was meant. Fixing it rather than deleting it woulda been better, IMHO.  No biggie tho. --Doncram (talk) 04:47, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Texas Revolution gaps
There appears to be huge gaps in Wikipedia's coverage of the Texas Revolution. I've created several stubs (Sons of the Republic of Texas, Amon B. King, Juan José Holzinger, Eduard Harkort), all of which need to be expanded...Zigzig20s (talk) 12:04, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Even the Texian Army has red links!Zigzig20s (talk) 15:21, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Move request
No, I wasn't aware that it was my job to close it. Whenever I've done anything like that before (not often), that's been done by a third party. I''ll go and see whether it has been.

User:FloridaArmy isn't doing things that are new to him/her. He/she has been here for over 18 months and created lots of new articles. If you just read down his/her talk page, you'll see lots of people giving him/her similar advice and asking him/her to do things properly. I'm not talking about disagreements with other editors about content; I'm talking about the basics. Every time they are given advice, they just ignore it and carry on in the same way, not adding categories (not the end of the world), not making a claim to notability (fairly serious, but not critical), not adding proper references (important but not critical), not providing edit summaries (not critical). Add up all these behaviours, plus the refusal to engage, and you have a clear picture of a disruptive editor who will continue to create work for others. I really don't want to have to keep cleaning up after them. What would you do? Deb (talk) 07:53, 27 March 2018 (UTC)


 * BTW, many of your assertions on his/her user page about my conduct are simply factually wrong as well as offensive. But carry on encouraging him and you can be the one to do the cleaning up. Deb (talk) 07:56, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

April 2018 Milhist Backlog Drive
G'day all, please be advised that throughout April 2018 the Military history Wikiproject is running its annual backlog elimination drive. This will focus on several key areas:


 * tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
 * adding or improving listed resources on Milhist's task force pages
 * updating the open tasks template on Milhist's task force pages
 * creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the scope of military history will be considered eligible. This year, the Military history project would like to extend a specific welcome to members of WikiProject Women in Red, and we would like to encourage all participants to consider working on helping to improve our coverage of women in the military. This is not the sole focus of the edit-a-thon, though, and there are aspects that hopefully will appeal to pretty much everyone.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 April and runs until 23:59 UTC on 30 April 2018. Those interested in participating can sign up here.

For the Milhist co-ordinators, AustralianRupert and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

New Page Review Newsletter No.10
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages! ACTRIAL:
 * ACTRIAL's six month experiment restricting new page creation to (auto)confirmed users ended on 14 March. As expected, a greatly increased number of unsuitable articles and candidates for deletion are showing up in the feed again, and the backlog has since increased already by ~30%. Please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day.

Paid editing
 * Now that ACTRIAL is inoperative pending discussion, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary.

Subject-specific notability guidelines
 * The box at the right contains each of the subject-specific notability guidelines, please review any that are relevant BEFORE nominating an article for deletion.
 * Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves with the new version of the notability guidelines for organisations and companies. A further discussion is currently taking  place at: Can a subject specific guideline invalidate the General Notability Guideline?

Nominate competent users for Autopatrolled
 * While patrolling articles, if you find an editor that is particularly competent at creating quality new articles, and that user has created more than 25 articles (rather than stubs), consider nominating them for the 'Autopatrolled' user right HERE.

News To opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The next issue Wikipedia's newspaper The Signpost has now been published after a long delay. There are some articles in it, including ACTRIAL wrap-up that will be of special interest to New Page Reviewers. Don't hesitate to contribute to the comments sections. The Signpost is one of the best ways to stay up date with news and new developments - please consider subscribing to it. All editors of Wikipedia and associated projects are welcome to submit articles on any topic for consideration by the The Signpost's editorial team for the next issue.

Deletion of Corvallis Arts Center
I deleted the page Corvallis Arts Center under criterion G6 (Housekeeping) to make way for the move of the accepted draft. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:58, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Lawrenceville Street HD photos
"If only we had a photo or two or three." I intended to get some Thursday, but I goofed up! I was going by the description that it went south from the courthouse to state road 20, which I thought was only one block long, with five stores on the east side of the street. (These photos went into the other McDonough HD you just created.) But actually, the HD goes NORTH from the courthouse and circles around to meet 20 further to the east. I didn't know this until I got back and checked the sketch in the NRHP form. :-) I didn't get any in the actual Lawrenceville Street HD.  I might be back through there in a week.  If not then, I will have another chance in May.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:46, 1 April 2018 (UTC)


 * My bad for not getting to it, and the rest in the county, sooner. You deserve to have some development making it easier to figure what to focus upon, when photographing. Oh, well. :) Glad you got what you did already. --Doncram (talk) 05:34, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Broadridge Financial Solutions
Hi there, I have just posted a request on the talk page for the article Broadridge Financial Solutions and, given your involvement with Wikiproject Finance & Investment, I wondered if you'd be willing to consider reviewing it. I have a financial COI as I'm working with the company, and therefore will not directly edit the page, per the WP:COI guideline. The current Broadridge article is quite short, and needs a lot of work; I think the section proposed would go a long way to helping readers understand this company better. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

help on bluegrass musicians Hiram and Art Stamper?
User:MB, User:Zigzig20s, anyone else interested?

Triple DYK possible for Art Stamper and Hiram Stamper (currently redlinks), and the just-started NRHP-listed Hiram and Art Stamper House. I know nothing about Bluegrass, but i like a youtube video I am listening to now. They obviously should be covered in Wikipedia! --Doncram (talk) 07:13, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes I will look at it (if you can give me their dates of death--I like looking people up on newspapers.com first as obituaries are a great way to start). By the way, I created Uncle Dave Macon House yesterday (and his brother's house, Brevard-Macon House).Zigzig20s (talk) 10:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, I found birth and death dates for both of them. I'd be happy if you take it forward any way you like.
 * Hiram Stamper was father of Art Stamper, both were master fiddlers.
 * Art was born 1933 near Hindman Kentucky, died January 23, 2005 in Louisville Kentucky per and  and LATimes obit in article.  Art was born November 1, 1933 per NRHP doc, which is a fine source for that.  Was born " in a cabin located on the Cumberland Plateau"... is it the NRHP-listed cabin?  That is not stated so I guess not but I am not sure.
 * Hiram Stamper (1893-1992), was fiddler "within traditional Old Time Music. Art Stamper learned Old Time fiddling from his father, and contributed greatly to other forms, including Bluegrass Music, and Mountain Music, ... "  "Hiram Stamper was born about 4/10's of a mile from the nominated cabin, in the location of Clarence Stamper's current home. He died in the nominated cabin in 1992." (NRHP nom)  Per some sources Hiram died age 99, but that could be people just doing the math from years of birth and death and guessing that the birthday was earlier in the year than the death date.  However it seems he was 98, by this source which gives 16 Mar 1893 as birth date and 17 Jan 1992 as death date, Hindman, Knott County, Kentucky, USA, as death location and burial location being the Stewart-Stamper Family Cemetery.
 * There is lots in the NRHP nomination about the types of music involved, and their connection to the house, and awards and memorials of Art especially, and plenty for separate articles about each of them. Funny that you just came across a different musician home. --Doncram (talk) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Dr. Martin Walton House
Why did you remove that the son was murdered by slaves and the new owner was a Confederate veteran? Was this an error? Could you please restore it?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:23, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you please restore this? Sorry to insist but I am a little upset. I thought we worked well together. It's very important to keep the historical context in the article.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:40, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have cumulatively gotten a bit irritated by multiple editors on NRHP document referencing, and I walked away from that after posting at its Talk page. At that article, I originally went to simply add the photos link, then got messed up with edit conflict, and tried to fix it but was confused about there being duplicative references, then walked away.  Fixed it now.
 * You referenced this NPS Gallery page as if that is a separate source from the simple NRIS reference and the NRHP text and photos. It is not.  It displays some info, including listing date, from NRIS (which has more data than displayed there) and it links to the NRHP text and photos.  So there are two sources not three in the article.
 * I added the author name and preparation date, and added the photos link and description (number of them and year).
 * Also I added address info that is available at the county list-article (probably originally from an address field in NRIS) which differs from the address/location info in the NRHP infobox (which draws from a different address field in NRIS). No one would know it, but when I am creating NRHP articles I am comparing and putting in the more complete info from the two ways to get NRIS address info.  I also compare the coordinates and use what's at the county list-article if they differ from what NRHP infobox generator supplies (no difference in this example, but often the county list-article coordinates have been improved by other editors).
 * It's probably too much to explain in detail, and I don't really care to try to micro-manage/control all nuances of what other editors do. But it is also frustrating that I have in fact made effort to explain these things to you and to others, and then see it all or mostly ignored.
 * I do believe that I have suggested politely to you that you add photos links, either by suggestion at your Talk page or by my making followup edits to yours occasionally. It would be easy for you to do upfront and you should in fact be consulting the photos if you are writing about the subject.  Having the photos linked in the article obviously helps potential photographers find and document the right stuff.  You are no doubt aware that there exist lots of bad photos which miss important details that the nomination photos convey, or even focus on the wrong building entirely, etc., because the Wikipedia editor/photographer was not informed properly, not having accessed the photos themselves.  I could make a gallery of such errors.  Your dismissing, at the Talk page, the importance of having the original photos linked rubs me the wrong way. --Doncram (talk) 16:32, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I know you brought it up once, but I didn't fully understand what you want. I still don't. I am not sure how to link to the pictures for example--I just use the citing template, and it does not include that option as far as I can tell. Are there guidelines on the WP about preferred style please?Zigzig20s (talk) 19:48, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you for following up. I am sorry for being cranky.  I will try to edit wp:NRHPMOS to cover what I think are the current best practices, and link there better from wp:NRHPHELP, and try to get others to comment again too.  But semi-briefly, for Tennessee and for many states where the NRHP documents are available from the National Park Service, just copy/paste the following:


 * and fill that in, i.e. put REFNUM in two "id=" places. Fill in the name of the NRHP listing after "National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination:".   Change "Inventory/Nomination" to "Registration" if that is what the text document shows.  If it is a state or local form, change "National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination:" as appropriate, e.g. to "Kentucky Historic Resources Inventory:".  The word "Form" should not be stated anywhere in this.  You certainly have to confirm that both links work.  It is nice to customize from "title=photos" to something like "title=20 photos from 1985".  Fill in author name and preparation from section 11 of the NRHP document.  Fill in Month, day in accessdate field.


 * The filled in version is, for example:

TLDR stuff: Note that the url using the REFNUM is done instead of copy-pasting what I will call the "ugly URL" that is at the document, if you found your way to the document by internet searching (or if you clicked to the document from the NPS Focus page for the site  https://npgallery.nps.gov/AssetDetail/NRIS/96001318). For example, for Dr. Martin Walton House, https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset/04b33fbb-ee62-4b72-ab92-7824f77ad246 is the ugly URL for the text, and https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset/17803fd6-6c44-478c-bc2a-efe211320db5/ gets to the photos.

It is clearer, for our purposes, to use what I will call the "elegant URL", which uses the reference number 96001318 once for text and once for photos, using the tricky little NRHP url template. unwraps out to https://npgallery.nps.gov/pdfhost/docs/NRHP/Text/96001318.pdf, and the  unwraps out to https://npgallery.nps.gov/pdfhost/docs/NRHP/Photos/96001318.pdf.

Does it matter which form of URL, "ugly" or "elegant"? Well, it may differ in your experience, but I find it easier and quicker to fill in the REFNUM twice where needed, rather than going to the documents and copy-pasting the "ugly" versions from the browser URL bar. In my observation, no one adds the photos in the ugly way. So to get anyone to regularly include the photos, I want to encourage editors to use the elegant way for both. This way it is easy to get the photos.
 * --20:41, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This seems extremely complicated to me. I would start the Sevier County Courthouse (Sevierville, Tennessee) but probably not today with these new rules. It may be less complicated than it seems--I'm exhausted due to RL problems.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I do hope you will proceed with that. It really is not complicated, i believe you will find, just copy-paste the suggested reference and fill in the reference number in two places.  By the way, the example of house in next section is proof that the NRHP photos are needed for someone to find the location in order to take pics. --Doncram (talk) 05:03, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Could you please repost your guidelines at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places to make sure everyone is in agreement?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Joseph Elliston House
I can't find a mention of "Elliston" or "Cohen" in the URL you're citing... I am surprised that there is such a house in Brentwood, because his house, Burlington (Nashville, Tennessee), is in mid-town...so if there's another house in Brentwood, it may have been built by someone else and then purchased by his son Jr. I'd love to find a book about the genealogy of the Ellistons by the way...Zigzig20s (talk) 22:08, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * That one is a very old article from when I tried creating articles for all of that one county in Tennessee, Williamson County, using the county-wide MPS document, which had very little info for many of the items, plus any other sources I could find for each one. I don't like to sound bitter, but I got horrible grief and wp:harassment for my efforts, at the time.  The specific NRHP doc for the site was not then available; it is now.  I did come back in the last year to revisit and fix up many of them, but didn't get to this one.  I just added it to the article, could you please fix up its appearance, perhaps? --Doncram (talk) 22:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Strange. Did he own houses in mid-town AND Brentwood? I wish I could find his obituaries--they're not on Newspapers.com. I'd like more RS about the Brentwood house. But I guess the mid-town one was more of a plantation house until it was expanded by William Robert Elliston in the 1850s. Still, it's much closer to downtown Nashville and to the Cockrill plantation (now Centennial Park), so it seems strange.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:27, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the coordinates in the article are quite far away from Brentwood, 63 miles away to the south in fact, past Franklin.  There seems to be some wrong information here...the coordinates are nowhere near Sneed Rd.  I am aware though that many of the plantations/estates south of Franklin are of families that also would have a house in Franklin, and/or attend church there.  The coordinates could/should be changed. --Doncram (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't deal with coordinates. Please fix them if you can.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:05, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you left a note in the article, not on the talkpage, by the way.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:32, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, done: coordinates updated.  It was not easy to find in Google street view, I "drove" past it twice without seeing it, because it is fairly far off and not in obvious view, but eventually got it.  Map in the text document, plus the set of photos, was essential.   The source NRHP document is actually a split-out page or two from the county-wide Multiple Resources study document, so the author and date of prep. come from the latter. --Doncram (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why this form does not mention that Elliston was the mayor of Nashville. Was it a different person? But it could've been the same person and it looks like he sold this house in 1828, so he may have moved mid-town permanently then. By the way, I think this house is in Forest Hills, Tennessee, not Brentwood, isn't it?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree it is not strictly in Brentwood from Google streetview. There is an "entering Brentwood City Limits" sign quite a bit further north up the road, at Beech Creek Rd. intersection.  No sign for Forest Hills or anything going the other way. --Doncram (talk) 16:35, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * We need this book!!Zigzig20s (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * There is more. The Ellistons were related to the Buford and Pointer families, who could very well have been the owners of the Spencer Buford House and the Henry Pointer House, both of which you created. However, you cited the general PDF. Is there any way at all that we could retrieve the PDFs about the specific properties please?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Both are delisted properties, and the NPS's Focus system no longer provides online text and photos, assuming they did provide it for some time after my involvement with those articles. Perhaps they could be requested individually by email (see wp:NRHPHELP) but I don't know how responsive the NPS is being about such nowadays.  I found stuff and added it to the Spencer Buford House article.  And I just copied stuff from an ancestry discussion board to Talk:Henry Pointer House, which at first I thought was itself copied from its NRHP document, but which is from something derivative instead.  It could be used to develop that article.  Hope this helps.  I am not that super interested in these individual sites and persons though. --Doncram (talk) 22:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man".

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Earl Swensson Associates
Hi. Are you interested in Earl Swensson Associates or Earl S. Swensson please?Zigzig20s (talk) 11:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Devereaux House, Ontario


The article Devereaux House, Ontario has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "Fails WP:GNG."

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  P 1 9 9  ✉ 19:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man
Hi Doncram.

Most of these buildings are not notable enough to have their own article, and many of them are to generic names like "The Police Station" which are obviously inappropriate to link to. Please do not try to link to them. Also, if there are a large number of instances within the same local authority area, there is no point in having 50 or 100 links to Castletown, or Douglas etc.

I did spot that one of your "tries", King William's College, was correct, so I used it. The others were clearly incorrect, and the buildings are not notable either, so I've deleted a number of them.

There are also clearly a few errors in the source, for instance a reference to Sulby instead of Surby, so we might as well correct those as we are going through it. If necessary I can provide references to demonstrate that these are errors.

I have been doing this quickly becaus I am conscious that you are still working on the article, and I wouldn't want you to waste your time adding inappropriate material.Ehrenkater (talk) 01:12, 10 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Like I said at the Talk page, where you did not ever respond, I appreciate that you apparently have knowledge and interest, but I dislike edit warring and too aggressive editing without discussion. I suggested a couple points for discussion there which you have not responded to.  I already moved the article to User:Doncram/Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man in order to try to get it out of edit war central.  Please do discuss at User talk:Doncram/Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man.  I will develop it further and consider what to do next. --Doncram (talk) 01:17, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:SIA-Conversion-Expand
Template:SIA-Conversion-Expand has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lojbanist remove cattle from stage 02:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:DabprimaryExpand
Template:DabprimaryExpand has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lojbanist remove cattle from stage 02:53, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Courtesy notification
Hi Doncram Just a courtesy notification that I have requested a move for Cadiz Masonic Lodge No. 121 F. and A.M. Blueboar (talk) 13:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK
I will do the QPQ but I need you to retrieve the RS and in-line it please. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 11:37, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

NRHP categories
When creating new articles, can you please add the category of "NRHP in X County, state" instead of "NRHP in state" and another category of "X County, state"? Example of William Mathers House. Thanks! — G FOLEY   F OUR!  — 15:12, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, I am not super-interested in categories, but I'll see what I can do about getting change for the categories that come in automatically with new NRHP articles, by use of a tool that helps with NRHP infobox and categories, supported by User:Elkman.
 * Also another editor occasionally pings me regarding a category or two that come in automatically, though I am not sure I appreciate what seems like deliberate hassling about it. User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars, take note that if you want to change default NRHP categories that you can take that up a more productive way. --Doncram (talk) 16:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I asked Elkman to fix it 6 years ago but new articles keep getting added to the deleted category. Simply maintaining it on my own while believing it would eventually stop (especially after three CfDs to delete the category) was wishful thinking. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 22:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * And that relates to 2017 CFD about the category being deleted and recreated and deleted, at.
 * Well, Elkman may not have been active then, but is recently re-programming again. Maybe several category-related changes can be rounded up and I will request them all to be addressed together. --Doncram (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think there's also need to add Historic district categories for HD items, as came up not long ago (in December 2017) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 66, led by User:Od Mishehu. I think that should have led to NRHP infobox code being changed so it would not add categories.  If so then the categories should be added directly in the programming for HD items, which is not happening now.  These would be: Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Oregon, etc., within Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places by state, with care to address properly Washington state's category which was re-named at some point to Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Washington (state).  Plus Washington, D.C., and territories covered within Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * User:Od Mishehu, can you inform me what happened there, and is it correct that these categories need to be programmed in? But i see no change in coding for infobox, in its history;  is there anyone coding that, or was it somehow coded in a linked template so not showing in history there.  Also possibly there should be a cleanup campaign to address new HD articles created since any such change until now, e.g. Owingsville Commercial District and Courthouse Square which shows no HD-related category. --Doncram (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm that December 2017 discussion mentions coding depending upon the state reported in the locmapin= field contents, yet the Elkman program has not been filling out that locmapin field, some or all of the time now. Sometimes there is no field, not even "locmapin=" with blank;  sometimes "locmapin=" appears; perhaps sometimes "locmapin=STATE" might appear i am not sure.  What is wanted is "locmapin=STATE#USA".  I have been manually adding "locmapin=Kentucky#USA" or the like. --Doncram (talk) 23:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I saw this conversation, since I have Doncram's talk page on my watchlist. I've implemented the change so it will now list something like or. Baltimore is a special case, though, because there's both a city of Baltimore and Baltimore County, which isn't the city. I'm going to have to do some special programming for that. Otherwise, counties, parishes, and boroughs should work properly now. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:49, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, great, thank you User:Elkman for noticing and addressing. You don't need to sweat too much about Baltimore if you haven't already done it, because all the MD articles were created some time ago, at least all through 2014 or so, by User:Pubdog mostly.  There are only a few recent listings having redlinks.  But even in nearly-all-done-states there may be a few stragglers, including archeological sites that were too hard to start earlier.  And it is helpful to have the infobox generator working for already-existing articles because some infoboxes were hand-created or were created before various fields got covered... I am regenerating infoboxes frequently when I visit older articles in Florida and some other states.  Anyhow, thanks again.


 * I am guess there's not going to be any reply from Mishelu, and that whatever needed to be changed in the infobox template or its linked subroutines was already done. --Doncram (talk) 01:23, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Old building
Hi. I wonder if you're interested in this building and the history behind it?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well i'm not opposed to covering buildings that are gone, though they're not as helpful to know about as artifacts that can still be seen. That one is not just any old building... as an 1897(?) skyscraper that big, comparable to Park Row Building, it was probably quite substantial for its time, and should be wikipedia-notable.  That would be added to National Bank of Commerce Building (dab page covering 3 others) if someone wanted to create an article about it.  If you want, you could justify adding a redlink to the dab page, with supporting bluelink per MOS:DABRL(?) if you created a redlink or two to it from some other pages on the dab.  Not sure if it can be mentioned, with references, in one of the sections in List of tallest buildings in New York City. --Doncram (talk) 16:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

John Sevier State Office Building
I read somewhere that this was NRHP-listed but perhaps only as a contributing property? You may also enjoy the Rachel Jackson State Office Building and the Andrew Jackson State Office Building, recently created/restored...Zigzig20s (talk) 18:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * User:Zigzig20s, it is separately NRHP-listed with main name as Tennessee State Office Building. You created the article in 2016!  Change one to redirect to other, of course. :)  --Doncram (talk) 20:48, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, I regularly come across articles I can't remember I've created...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * It happens. :) And I just added mentions of those buildings to "Memorials" sections in Andrew Jackson and Rachel Jackson articles. --Doncram (talk) 22:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:35, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Commons
Hi. I am not sure if you upload pictures on Commons. I tend to shy away from doing this with pictures whose copyright I don't own. Let me know if you are able to help with this please: would you please consider uploading this painting and this picture (taken from this list)?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:18, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not the one for that. I am aware of some copyright stuff to speak up sometimes, but not much more.  I used to ask User:KudzuVine to upload HABS pics for me, but they have not been active for a long time.  There's some discussion at wt:NRHP right now about HABS uploading, and in its last archive at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 66 about licensing, maybe someone participating there would help. --Doncram (talk) 18:05, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I agree that it is complicated. I used to ask User:Magnolia677 but they are on a Wikibreak apparently.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:20, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi again. Do you know if there is an RS with all the Confederate veterans please? I would like to double-check that William R. Elliston served in the CSA. I know his son-in-law, Edward Buford (probably tied to the house in Williamson County) did.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:27, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I never heard of such a source. BTW though, browsing for William R. Elliston CSA, i find he was a trustee of McKendree Church, who petitioned for release of the church following the ACW.  See p 369-70, The Papers of Andrew Johnson.  Not sure if this tidbit is worth mentioning in the Wikipedia article. --Doncram (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, probably the McKendree United Methodist Church, where President Polk's funeral was held. However there was also the McKendree Church (later known as the West End United Methodist Church), where Fountain E. Pitts was the first pastor. If you were able to disentangle the history of these two churches, it would be very useful. I think the West End church was founded as a branch of the church downtown. Note that the West End church was probably built on land Elliston owned, next his Burlinghton mansion.
 * Charlotte Avenue was on the other end of his plantation (I think; I wish we could find a map of all those plantations); it was named Cedar Street and later renamed Charlotte after James Robertson's first wife; there are many buildings listed on the NRHP on that street, so we should create an article similar to Church Street; Charlotte Avenue is also where slave auctions were held in the antebellum era, and John Cockrill built the first brick house on that street.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:59, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that one reference says John Cockrill's second wife Barbara Fox was the granddaughter of Thomas West, 3rd Baron De La Warr, but I'd like to find more RS to make sure that's true.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:17, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Colonel Benjamin F. Cockrill served in the CSA I think, but there is very little about him. He died in 1903, but I can't find his obituaries on Newspapers.com. FindaGrave may have the wrong date.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:12, 16 April 2018 (UTC)


 * FWIW, McKendree United Methodist Church seems not to be NRHP-listed, not individually or in a historic district, upon review of National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee. First Presbyterian Church (Nashville, Tennessee), half a block away down Church St., is NRHP-listed. --Doncram (talk) 06:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The Cockrills and the Ewings were Presbyterians; the Ellistons were Methodists.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:27, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Charlotte Avenue.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

List of memorials to Stonewall Jackson
Do you know if there is a chapel in his honor in Lexington, Virginia please? The aforementioned W.R. Elliston served on a board for its construction apparently. Not sure if it was ever built.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:59, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The list appears to be incomplete.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Of course it is incomplete; my impression is there would be hundreds of statues of him.  Perhaps some covered in the big list of Confederate memorials.  Also it is odd to describe as a "building or structure" the Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, which might have been the intended location for a chapel that never got built.  Or did the initiative to memorialize get resolved by creation of Jackson Memorial Hall, at VMI, interesting print available, not mentioned in the list.  This source gives info about the statue placed upon his grave at the cemetery in 1895, by sculptor Edward B. Valentine Edward V. Valentine, not covered in either article. --Doncram (talk) 18:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Not Edward Virginius Valentine?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:38, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Right u r of course. --Doncram (talk) 18:42, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * And I added to the two articles. --Doncram (talk) 01:25, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Reviewing proposed edits to Financial Accounting Standards Board
Hey Doncram, I saw you're a member of WP:FINANCE and I was wondering if you had some time to review a new draft I'm proposing for the FASB. It's a long article, and I know it's a lot to look over, but I'm hoping to get as much feedback on it as possible given its large scope. It's mostly focused on reorganizing the article and clearly outlining both the history of the organization alongside the accounting standards that it's proposed in the past. If you could take a look at it, even just a small part, I'd really appreciate it.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 18:11, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Albert D'Oench
Greeting Doncram. Could you generate a list of NRHP listing for D'Oench and D'Oench and Yost? Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 03:49, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * User:FloridaArmy, from searching in NRIS data through some date in 2013 or 2014, I could only find one you already had, plus Carnegie Library (Sandusky, Ohio). I developed the latter with some Ohio Historic Places Dictionary info, following my own advice for Ohio places recorded a while back within wp:NRHPHELP.  Note minor confusion reflected in the article, whether it was designed by D'Oench (per NRIS) or by D'Oench and Yost (per OHPD).  The NRHP nomination docs are not available for free from NPS for this and other Ohio NRHPs, unfortunately.  You could actually buy it for a small fee from Ohio state I think (see NRHPHELP).  Hope this helps.  Please do edit down/remix what I added to the Albert D'Oench article. --Doncram (talk) 06:08, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * P.S. About the Germania Life Insurance Company Building in NYC, argh I used to be able to access New York State's system which has NRHP documents but they changed everything a few years ago and I don't know how to proceed. I don't think wp:NRHPHELP has been updated for New York, sorry. --Doncram (talk) 06:11, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Your changes were very helpful. Any odeas on Simon Bernhard who he partnered with? Is this the renowned Swiss church and resort hotel architect (see article on German Wikipedia)? A relation of him? FloridaArmy (talk)


 * Hmm, User:Florida, are you toggling over to other wikipedias easily somehow? I see no option to jump over from Simon Bernhard (redlink).  But i see googling "Simon Bernhard architect" brings up the de wikipedia article first.  Bernhard: Geboren 1816, Gestorben 1900 vs. D'Oench: December 25, 1852 – July 20, 1918.  I assume it is the one person, though I don't see proof, so I don't know what you can do with the German wikipedia info.
 * Bits you probably found already:
 * All related to one lawsuit about work relating to project on properties between E.13th and E.14th St, there are 12 pages with hits on "D'Oench Bernhard" in this Google book of NY court proceedings.
 * D'Oench & Bernard had office at 19 William St., per this directory.
 * By the way, at the library article, you must have meant something different than "D'Oench worked in Columbus, Ohio before moving to New York City and joining D'Oench." Also that must have been from some source other than OHPD. --Doncram (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Yost not Yoat wanted. :) And still a source needed for the factoid, methinks tho not really disputing. It just looks like it is being presented as being sourced from OHPD;  it would be fine as an unsourced non-controversial assertion, maybe it could be moved to a separate one-sentence paragraph with no source. --Doncram (talk) 17:19, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * User:FloridaArmy, English translation of a Dictionaire historique article on Simon Bernhard.
 * Oops, per FloridaArmy's note, maybe that is a different person. Simon, Bernhard. --Doncram (talk) 15:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 * He worked in Russia then back to Switzerland. World-traveler, why not go to NYC too.  I bet the biographers there simply missed / don't know about an American adventure of a few years.  Maybe there's enough for English wikipedia article about him, though lacking source saying anything about NYC so far.  Built the article, the info will come? --Doncram (talk) 17:19, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately my fingertips are bigger than the letters on my keyboard.. this source has D'Oench saying they were classmates.. I don't know where D'Oench studied.. Did he go to Europe? He seems to have been quite wealthy and tied to politically influential people such as W.R. Grace who appointed him biilding inspector and whose daughter he married. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Albert's father was born in, retired to, and died in Germany. 1872 I believe.. see here. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:54, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think one os Bernhard Simon and one is Simon Bernhard? I need more sleep. FloridaArmy (talk) 20:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * What, two persons with first and last names reversed, but in the same general field, in the same continent? What are the odds?  Hmm. --Doncram (talk) 15:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Quick question
Hello again. In Tennessee Performing Arts Center, do you think "In the early 1800s, the site was where" or "In the early 1800s, this location was where" sounds better please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:28, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Shame (2013 film) concern
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National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee
Are you sure that the list is complete please? Is there a way to double-check?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:32, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Noblit-Lytle House
Not a single RS about the "demolition" and nothing on Google News either...Zigzig20s (talk) 16:26, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

The Fog (Mad Men)
Thank-you so much for your advice. My partner and I have basically finished with the page. We would love to publish, how do we do so? When we hit "publish" it just saves as a draft. Please advise. Our professor is giving us extra credit if we actually get our page published on the main space. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshua Larmon (talk • contribs) 18:50, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * About moving Draft:The Fog (Mad Men) to The Fog (Mad Men), i will reply at your Talk page. --Doncram (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

CN
Do you have an RS for this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:15, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think/hope this will be the last thing to fix about this DYK nomination!Zigzig20s (talk) 01:42, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK
Could you please add a source for "Kentucky War Memorial, in Frankfort Cemetery in Frankfort, Kentucky, unveiled in 1850. Sculpture by Robert E. Launitz. The monument stands over the graves of 17 Kentucky soldiers who had fallen at the Battle of Buena Vista, and on one side it lists officers killed in the Mexican-American War. The monument also commemorates the fallen from the War of 1812 and from various Indian wars."? I don't remember writing this, so it may have been you. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 15:47, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Zigzig20s, I probably wrote that, summarizing from the linked article, which has sources, but the sources are not available to read online now. It is non-controversial information and not part of the DYK assertion, and clearing every spurious CN tag should not be required for the DYK to go through.  If I am wrong about that, it could be temporarily commented out and then restored later after the DYK is finished on the main page.  Do whatever you feel is expedient, i suggest. --Doncram (talk) 17:24, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It is blocking the DYK nomination. If you find an RS, can you please add it? It does not have to be online.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:28, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I know it's tedious. I'd just like this DYK nomination to be over. I feel it's been dragging on for weeks! I am also getting tired of the Elkman issues for NRHP, so I may create fewer articles about historic buildings until we fix it.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:34, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Redirecting list to article
Hello there! This creation seems irregular. Is there precedent for a "List of..." to redirect to a "notable examples" section in an article? Why not simply start a list article itself rather than redirecting? It seems like your creation would be a surprise to the reader. Killiondude (talk) 04:54, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Killiondude, I do support the creation of an explicit List of Gothic-arch barns to complement Category:Gothic-arch barns which has 12 members. In this situation I deferred to User:MB who was developing the Gothic-arch barn article for DYK (which it achieved and it is a very nice article), and who chose to use title of "notable examples" and to list just selected ones, rather than including a comprehensive list as a section.  About Gothic-arch barns, I actually thought more of them would turn up as being NRHP-listed, but 12 is all that have shown up in my searching so far.  Certainly many more of them exist, probably in the hundreds in the U.S. and Canada, but probably they are not each individually notable the way that any round barn probably is (see List of round barns).  A list-article can include not-individually-notable items of course, but it is hard to find any documentation at all.
 * I have created many list-articles of things, sometimes leaving short ones within overall topic articles (e.g. 12 ZCBJ hall buildings within what is now Western Fraternal Life Association article), and splitting them out when long enough (List of Elks buildings with many, List of Fraternal Order of Eagles buildings which has just 11, List of Russian Orthodox churches in the United States within worldwide list-article of ROCs, etc.
 * I created List of Gothic-arch barns as a temporary redirect, it should be considered a "redirect with possibilities". Now I guess it should be created as a separate list-article, or the "notable examples" section should be made more comprehensive.  Killiondude, you could be bold and proceed yourself, or would you help me if I proceeded?  cheers, --Doncram (talk) 22:02, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Pair-house
Gatoclass (talk) 12:01, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Grand Lodge of Tennessee
Hello. I think there is a building for this--is it not listed? Maybe under another name? I've also left a creation request at WP:Freemasonry, but not necessarily for the building.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Zigzig20s, is that at 100 Seventh Ave, North, Nashville, TN (as per http://www.grandlodge-tn.org/main/GLTN-page.asp?p=20? I guess so, because Google Streetview shows a substantial looking building with Masonic signage.  I tried different names in NRIS (using "Find the cities and states for which a property is listed" / "WhoHas" too).  Then browsing in National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee shows no listing, and map of coordinates shows no nearby historic district that might include it.  The James Robertson Hotel at 118 N. 7th, down the block, however, is listed.
 * By the way the link you provided at WikiProject Freemasonry goes nowhere for me, it shows subscription required etc. without any thumbnail or anything of what could be available. ("Hello. Is anyone in this WP interested in creating an article about the Grand Lodge of Tennessee founded in 1841 please? Here's an initial RS if interested.")  I doubt you'll get help there;  they've been mainly deletionist about Masonic buildings and somewhat so also about lodges as organizations, too, in my experience.
 * The building definitely could be added to List of Masonic buildings in the United States. --Doncram (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I will add it there, as it is useful as a notable yet non-NRHP-listed example, to break weird deletionist-oriented editorial b.s. there. This source gives me enough. --Doncram (talk) 16:14, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I came across it (the organization, not the building) while working on William Henry Calhoun. Wikilinks tell us that Wilkins F. Tannehill was also a Grand Master, whatever that means. If it can be linked to many prominent Tennesseans, it should be created. Looks like a huge building.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:27, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and create it, please, to cover both the organization and the building. Grand Lodges as organizations are basically notable, as has been established in a number of silly AFDs, by the way.  I created article for its architect, Asmus & Clark. --Doncram (talk) 16:52, 24 April 2018 (UTC)


 * FYI, coverage of Grand Lodge of West Virginia and an article about its grandmaster Frank Haas went through agony in the past, despite New York Times detailed coverage of its racism and weird anti-handicapped-ism. Anything unfavorable or secrecy-revealing about Masons, such as possibly this about Grand Lodge of Tennessee ejecting gay married members (which certainly should be covered) brings it out.  The GLWV article reflects the controversy there fairly mildly in a "Lawsuit" section, which I think is okay, but required defending more than once.  There are Masons who are very much against the surviving racism and homophobia in selected chapters, lodges, including the seemingly well-respected author of Freemasonry for Dummies who comments in the GLT coverage and commented in the Frank Haas/GLWV coverage, too.  Funny the GLT website says (paraphrasing) "first of all we are not a secret society", in contrast to the lede in this news coverage. --Doncram (talk) 17:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the history may be interesting, as this chapter was founded in the Antebellum era (in the 1840s). I really know nothing about Freemasons--no one has ever invited me to join.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, you could learn about it by plugging along filling the redlinks of Template:Freemasonry in the Americas. If your experience is like mine, you will run screaming if you are ever invited in person to join.  The List of Masonic buildings and eventually split-out List of Masonic buildings in the United States have wasted more time and edits than any other topic I have ever worked on in Wikipedia, I am pretty sure.  I only got involved reluctantly, slowly, when the Masonites (they like to be called that) were absurdly deleting disambiguation pages and obviously legitimate articles.  It was exasperating.  I coulda been interested in joining eventually myself, in fact there's family history involvement and I was curious about it, but yikes about how they represented themselves in Wikipedia editing.  Hey, you are objecting to NRIS reference formatting/content;  perhaps you can find common cause with a Masonite or two who was ridiculous about that, could not understand that a database can be a source, and that a database is a database is a database, not something else, you will cringe if you read through it all ever. :)  (About NRIS reference, i do intend to open a new discussion section at wt:NRHP and invite you there, no worries, about your questions/concerns.) --Doncram (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll go through the list of the founders of the TN lodge and see if they are notable. But not right now. I am very surprised to hear that the building is not listed.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Category:Waffle House
I recently created Category:Waffle House. Do you think any of them are based in listed buildings?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Johnson-Hach House photo

 * By the way, any idea why the picture is looking weird at Johnson-Hach House?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:40, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Picture looks fine to me. Maybe it was temporary ... while commons/wikimedia creates a cache version or whatever small size of an image for it, behind the scenes, to fit the infobox.  You should notice we never need to create thumbnail-size versions of photos to include in list-articles for example;  generation of all sizes of photos is done automagically behind the scenes. --Doncram (talk) 02:39, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It looks sideways on my screen?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:46, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay now it is rotated wrong for me too. There is a "request rotation" button available below commons photos; i requested 270 degree rotation. --Doncram (talk) 16:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Stemmery
We may need an article about [tobacco] stemmeries. I know you've created many articles about Kentucky, and this is coming up quite a bit in the PDFs of houses in Northern Tennessee...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:04, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * About "stemmery", what?!? I haven't encountered that yet.  But indeed NRIS includes National Tobacco Work Branch Stemmery, 2410-18 W. Main St., Louisville, Kentucky
 * So yes, I suppose the world does need for Wikipedia to have an article about them, including a list of notable ones, whatever they are! Or, hmm, there must be other kinds of tobacco-related buildings, e.g. tobacco drying sheds, and there might be tobacco-related machines distinct from whatever is in a stemmery;  maybe these can be covered together in Tobacco or Tobacco industry or History of tobacco or some such more general article. --Doncram (talk) 02:29, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow, those articles exist, none use the word "stemmery". There is Category:Tobacco barns.  Perhaps a List of tobacco-related buildings or List of tobacco buildings and cover curing barns and stemmeries and anything else (but not office buildings of the big tobacco companies)?  Link to this list from the History of tobacco article.  It would be too off-topic to include a list of barns in that article itself, I think. --Doncram (talk) 02:35, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I am just not sure what a stemmery is, but the word keeps coming back in the biographies of businessmen who invested in the tobacco industry in Tennessee/Kentucky in the early part of the 20th century. My guess is that it was a building where the stems were removed from the leaves.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Google "historic district stemmery" obtains some hits:
 * PDF for [[American Tobacco Company, South Richmond Complex Historic District], VA
 * for Darlington Industrial Historic District, SC
 * NRHP pdf for Philip Morris Blended Leaf Complex Historic District
 * Per this about La Grange Historic District, the La Grange Historic District, Lenoir County, NC includes one
 * Greenville NC HD
 * and I'll stop going through the hits... there are more.
 * For MPS/TR studies, from reviewing wp:MPS, there are
 * an MPS in MD for "Tobacco Barns of Southern Maryland MPS", PDF maybe not available online (need to try searching at NPSFocus)
 * [Tobacco Buildings in Lancaster City MPS, PA, and an Additional Documentation doc (not available, or need to try searching at NPSFocus)
 * Flue-Cured Tobacco Production Properties TR, SC
 * "Tobacco Warehouses in Richmond, Virginia, 1874-1963 MPS", VA maybe not available online (need to try searching at NPSFocus)
 * So List of tobacco buildings is certainly viable, covering warehouses, stemmeries, curing barns, i dunno what else. "tobacco buildings" is a thing.  List of stemmeries would be possible, I suppose. --Doncram (talk) 03:45, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * One more for now: Liggett & Myers Historic District PDF for Liggett & Myers Historic District in St. Louis, Missouri. --Doncram (talk) 03:50, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * O i c, Hugh Dunlop, of your Tip Top, is mentioned owning a stemmery and 60 slaves in Dunlop Milling Company PDF for Dunlop Milling Company. --Doncram (talk) 03:55, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Stemmery = ". 1. a factory or other place where tobacco leaves are stripped." per Dictionary.com. Other definitions Webster elsewhere are useless, i.e. a place where tobacco is stemmed" then click on "stemmed" and other meanings but no related meaning appears.
 * This about modern processes, stemmery. --Doncram (talk) 04:00, 25 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I have added Stemmery and Tobacco factory (currently redirected to one) to my to do list. I am happy to help on both or either. Please let me know if you want me to go ahead and create one or both of them. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:19, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Great to have more interest! I would defer to Zigzig20s, who might be planning to develop a DYK-worthy article, about how to proceed.  We three could collaborate in a draft or mainspace article or two or three here.  I won't start one on any of these main topics, myself, but will add what i can. --Doncram (talk) 16:15, 25 April 2018 (UTC)  P.S. For now I will start and/or add to articles on the individual NRHP sites which need developing to learn about them and so that they can be linked. --Doncram (talk) 16:23, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * See growing Category:Stemmeries ( in number, updates occasionally) and Category:Tobacco buildings (, updates occasionally). Not a terribly exciting topic area though.  List of packing houses, complementing packing house, did not shake the world, either. --Doncram (talk) 19:45, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Since broken into Category:Tobacco buildings in the United States (, updates occasionally) and Category:Tobacco buildings in the United Kingdom (, updates occasionally) by Zigzig20s i think. --Doncram (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that we don't have Category:Tobacco plantations (yet we have Category:Cotton plantations).Zigzig20s (talk) 19:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Tobacco factory cat seems a little light. See this Wikipedia search. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, setting up that search is helpful... i browsed through many pages of it and added to the Tobacco buildings category. --Doncram (talk) 20:26, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Would Category:Factories be a sub-category of Category:Manufacturing plants, or a redirect? I don't think it is necessarily about "manufacturing", is it?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:02, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go there, let category specialists do their thing.
 * There are lots of hits on similar search for Tobacco warehouse, and I added a bunch more to tobacco buildings category. I assume category specialists will swarm over that, maybe break out Tobacco warehouse, perhaps break apart new (Zigzig20s-created) U.S. subcategory into Pennsylvania vs. other, etc., etc.  Perhaps/probably they will quibble with Category:Stemmery having been added to a couple historic districts which include a stemmery.  Categorizations will be changed and cannot be controlled; you can't monitor the changes; all we can do is put them into play.
 * What makes permanent contribution to Wikipedia is building list-articles, IMHO. The stemmeries need to be covered in one place with links to the relevant historic districts having them.  Redlinks are allowed in list-articles.


 * Grade II listed buildings in Liverpool-L5 includes the Tobacco Warehouse, at Stanley Dock, which was the largest brick building in the world. It can be covered in a list-article List of tobacco warehouses, with photo and reference and all that, but there's no easy way to put it into a category.  (Technically, can set up a redirect and categorize that, but that's awkward, insubstantial, easily lost.)
 * From the numbers turned up so far, it looks to me like Stemmery with a section listing the few known stemmeries (and targeted by redirect from List of stemmeries), and List of snuff mills and List of tobacco warehouses are worth creating now. Great numbers of tobacco warehouses were created in producing U.S. states (and perhaps at export locations too?) and great ones were created in a big boom Bristol, Liverpool, other import ports in the U.K. and elsewhere;  this comes through from quick synthesis of the articles found in searching.  List of tobacco factories does not seem to be as well-defined a topic, blurs into listing the tobacco companies themselves, is not attractive to me right now.  I would leave the category of tobacco buildings to grow; maybe another list article could be generated out of it sometime later. --Doncram (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Tobacco warehouse
A Tobacco warehouse (currently a redlink) has specific design issues, different than general warehouse. This source goes into them, including about underground drainage system, brick/fireproof design, other relating to the drying that needs to go on, the risk of fire, the value of the merchandise. And managing the tobacco of different year vintages, including diversifying where in the warehouse a given year's crop is distributed, to protect against catastrophic loss of all of any one year's crop. How many years involved, what is the lifetime? I take it that warehouses are used to dry/cure the tobacco (before or after stemming / destemming?), and are part of the manufacturing process in effect.

Not discussed there is stuff about bonding and taxes and links to financing and loans. Tobacco in the American Colonies brings up about loans and consignment system and branding by individual tobacco plantations. What were rates of taxation in England? What does bonding do? Security issues, about controlling which was covered by tax stamps already or not, I suppose. --Doncram (talk) 22:40, 25 April 2018 (UTC)


 * This about Mecklenburg regulation by Virginia legislature to protect/improve reputation in England, including requiring non-wooden structures, state inspectors, sampling process, these were short-term warehouses. Tobacco as money, as the medium for exchange. --Doncram (talk) 22:56, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Removed some stuff here.--Doncram (talk) 16:05, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Fort Pillow listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Fort Pillow. Since you had some involvement with the Fort Pillow redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. wbm1058 (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

List of Spanish–American War monuments and memorials
Sorry about the MAW--another editor wants you to add more references for the DYK to go through. By the way, we could/should create a List of Spanish–American War monuments and memorials. There are some at Spanish–American War Memorial for example. This is a war that I don't understand, by the way.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

List of women's clubs
Thanks for the review of the recent update. I think you saw that I added a list of referances after I've updated the article, but I also included inline citations with the content adds. I like to see both a Notes and References section in an article. Thanks for checking them out. Rosalina523 (talk) 21:36, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Why?
Why is American history so creepy?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

List of Vietnam War monuments and memorials
Thank you for creating the List of Vietnam War monuments and memorials. It may be especially significant given Kathleen Belew's research.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:39, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Edwin A. Keeble
Keeble's partner's family home may have been Beechlawn Advance and Retreat. Related to William Frierson Cooper. See this.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:52, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Afd Sunplaza park
Hi, I left some opposing comments at Sun Plaza Park Afd, don't feel offended, just my vexations of how Singapore related pages often end, I am with you on ATD, if any other parks that are in that list (actually when I nominated the Park, I went through all the rest and I am 100% sure I can defend successfully at any Afd) are up for Afd, I will say Keep and provide sources. Just to let you know I am on your side for principle, but this just doesn't cut it. Thanks and what an 700 seater amphitheater which is just a shelter, I am puzzled and searched then I know what kind of marketing Nparks do as I pass by there so much time and is just a shelter with concrete, eye opener thanks for your mention. =) --Quek157 (talk) 21:32, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Shame (2013 film)


Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Shame".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. HasteurBot (talk) 02:02, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK MAW
Technically I am "on strike," but not actively so. I wonder if I should resume the strike until the DYK gets posted?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:47, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Ponca City Hall
Is this title correct? Should it be Ponca City City Hall? City Hall of Ponca City? I'm not sure what to call it because it is the city hall of Ponca City. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:15, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Also, I think Ponca needs disambiguating if you wouldn't mind helping. I am no expert on the best approach and haven't mastered the formatting. Thanks for your help! FloridaArmy (talk) 14:25, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Actually i am a bit confused, but you/we should follow what is in sources. As you have seen i also have edited at Ponca Historic District (nebraska) and Downtown Ponca City Historic District (oklahoma) and Ponca City Hall (oklahoma, which i moved to Ponca City Hall (Ponca, Oklahoma), but maybe that was a mistake). In Ponca Historic District, there was/is mention of a city hall, but now I am not sure there should be. "city hall" does not appear in the NRHP document. Maybe/probably the disambiguating hatnotes need to be changed, and/or disambiguation page(s) need to be created.  But any more moves and disambiguation fixes would be better done after the articles themselves get developed a bit and stabilized. Hopefully you have more info for the Ponca City Hall article which you started, otherwise i don't see why it should be a separate article. --Doncram (talk) 14:27, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I was editing once of the buildings and then the other popped up creating a bit of a can of worms for me. Ponca City is the name of one of the places. So what I was asking is if it is okay to call the city hall of Ponca City: Ponca City Hall. I did look in the cources but I didn't see a name for it, just "City Hall". As far as the other Ponca City Hall, we should double check that it is in fact IN the district. The photo caption I believe says it is IN the district but perhaps it is not listed as part of the disrrict? It doesn't look like much but a close look at the building amd date of construction suggest it has some history. Again, I was just trying to keep things sorted out and didn't want to have only one article about the city hall in Ponca City without indicating that there was in fact another Ponca City Hall.
 * Right, i see poncacityok.gov's City Hall webpage just calls it City Hall. Should it be termed "City Hall (Ponca City, Oklahoma)"?  Hopefully the common usage could be sorted out from newspaper articles, other sources.  What does the Downtown Ponca City Historic District's NRHP nomination document say?  The poncacityok.gov webpage is not a lot for an article;  perhaps it should be merged into the historic district article. --Doncram (talk) 14:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I moved it to City Hall in Ponca City. I think it is very notable independent of the district. Certainly could use expanding. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The NRHP document now linked from the Downtown article calls it "Municipal Complex" and "Ponca City Municipal Complex": "Municipal Complex, 500 E Grand. 1917. Mission/Spanish Colonial Revival. Layton and Smith, architects. The Ponca City Municipal Complex is an elaborate two story stucco clad building with a brick water table. Originally constructed in

1917 to include a city hall and a theatre, the building has been renovated numerous times. Office wings were added in 1923 ...". --Doncram (talk) 15:01, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

High school disambigs
Hi! Unless there are multiple high schools with the same name in the state state or the city is a major city, the main disambiguation indicator in the name is just the state: ABC High School (State)

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 19:29, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * User:WhisperToMe, I don't think that is policy, although I see that is usually the current practice in U.S. high school articles. However there is certainly no such policy, and it is not the usual practice, for buildings listed on the NRHP, some of which are high schools.  NRHP buildings and other buildings are disambiguated with (City, State), not (State).  I am not sure whether to open some proceeding against you for making disruptive moves;  you are certainly IMHO not adding any value. --Doncram (talk) 19:34, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * There are relatively few policies on here, but a lot of guidelines.
 * I wasn't aware of that particular quirk with NRHP, but that may interfere with a broader guideline (somewhere!) of generally only disambiguating with the state. I'm looking around to see where this guideline is.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 19:43, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It is not a mere "quirk"; the practice applies to a lot more than just NRHP-listed places.  There is wp:USPLACE, which is pretty important.  It is overtly only about city/town article names, but discussions of USPLACE have covered parenthetical disambiguation too, without complete resolution.  Including (City, State) is consistent with USPLACE.  There is some disagreement within Wikiproject NRHP about county courthouses as an odd exception, but otherwise the practice has been almost universally to use (City, State) for NRHPs and for other buildings and other sites in the U.S.
 * About high schools and you and me right now, I suggest that if you see an article primarily about a high school building, notable because it is listed on the NRHP, that you leave that with City, State. And I won't go on a spree moving articles that are primarily about a current high school.  I have kept some notes about the general issue, but I don't happen to want to have a big RFC or whatever right now about it, so otherwise I'd rather nothing happens now. --Doncram (talk) 19:52, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of Jan H. Gardner for deletion
As a previous contributor, I thought I'd give you a heads up that a discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jan H. Gardner is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles_for_deletion/Jan_H._Gardner until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.Bangabandhu (talk) 22:36, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Error message.
Testing.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I kept getting this message when I tried to post on your talkpage or tried to visit this category, but my watchlist and other articles were loading... "Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.".Zigzig20s (talk) 20:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, no problem. Earlier today i was getting a message like that about one Wikipedia page i was trying to visit, while not for any others. --Doncram (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.11 25 May 2018
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Home for Aged Masons
You might be interested in the Home for Aged Masons. The PDF has quite a lot of information, and we may be able to wikilink it to the Grand Lodge of Tennessee (here) once we've created it...Zigzig20s (talk) 11:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Marcus B. Toney.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:28, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think William H. Bumpas may be notable too. He was Grand Master of Tennesse. But we need to find more content first.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Grand Lodge of Tennessee (2nd discussion)

 * The Grand Lodge of Tennessee building was called Odd Fellow's Temple when it was built in 1874.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * okay that adds to what we already had. We already established Grand Lodge of Tennessee is notable and included it into List of Masonic buildings in the United States. [That was in discussion at above.]  Maybe should create it now.—Doncram (talk) 16:58, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd still like to find a few more RS. Are you sure there is nothing on the NRHP now that we know the old name?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:18, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've checked this and this and really don't see it listed. Is it possible to do a search on the NRHP website to see if it's been nominated but not registered?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:37, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The National Park Service's wp:NPGallery website is not helpful for searching on that, but Elkman's website does allow searching for "owner objection" and "delisted" and other status situations, for his copy of the NRIS database up through some date in 2014. Just check the box "Search for properties that have been delisted?" and it covers all other codings, besides the regular "listed" code.  I get no results there from searching on "Masonic Lodge" or "Odd Fellows" and "TN" with that box checked. --Doncram (talk) 18:41, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a primary source, but it may be useful. I am not sure.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:08, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That source, a history of the Grand Lodge during a period in the 1800s, won't cover the current lodge building, built in 1925. But there should be just one article on the Grand Lodge as an organization and as a building, and the source would be fine for the former stuff.  Probably it has some things written in 1800s-style that are interesting now and can be quoted. --Doncram (talk) 18:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Where did you find 1925? I found 1874.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:55, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * 1925 is given in this, the source used in "List of Masonic buildings in the United States". Just start the article, even if only in Draft space, to collect the info!  There are also Newspapers.com source(s) linked previously which User:E.M.Gregory or someone else could get. --Doncram (talk) 19:01, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * OK yes, 1925 is the date of the new (and current) building.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:06, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Completed in 1926.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:23, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, i will come to you when needing Newspapers.com searching. I can't read those. Draft:Grand Lodge of Tennessee is launching soon. :) --Doncram (talk) 19:27, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You really should ask for a free account. You deserve it!Zigzig20s (talk) 19:39, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's live, under construction, feel free to expand it and I will too over the next few days. Grand Lodge of Tennessee.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:43, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The Independent Order of Odd Fellows are not Masons though, are they?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:53, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Let me know if you are able to figure out.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Odd Fellows are completely different. There are cases when various fraternal orders did share buildings, like also how various chapters of the same order shared one building in a city.  There are about 14 ethnic and fraternal orders with notable buildings covered in Template:Lists of clubhouse buildings, besides veterans ones. --Doncram (talk) 12:58, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * What do you think happened then? I am frankly lost.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I may have made a mistake This mentions a new Grand Lodge building on Broadway and 7th Avenue. We need to double-check the addresses...It may be two separate buildings. But then we need to find more RS about the lodge building...Zigzig20s (talk) 13:19, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * (ec) You have access to newspaper article suggesting it was "called Odd Fellow's Temple when it was built in 1874"; i do not. I don't see any source talking about Odd Fellows involvement. But it seems possible Odd Fellows opened a building in 1874. The Masons could have rented meeting space for one night a week or whatever, and they could eventually have bought the property. And then they had it torn down and built a new building in 1925. Again, i have no sources about any of that except the fact their building was built in 1925, per the Downtown Nashville page. --Doncram (talk) 13:22, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, it was the Odd Fellows, sources like this one are very clear, with the address and Odd Fellows clearly mentioned. If it was taken over by the Masons later, we need to figure out when.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:29, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't read that.
 * Your energy is admirable, but why apply it here? It is perfectly fine to start the article, leave it for local historians or others to find and expand eventually.  There are several redlinks in the list-article system of NRHPs which need articles more urgently, IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 13:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd at least like to find out when it became a Masonic building. Otherwise the article makes little sense.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:06, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you make a contribution by putting out an implicit question in an article. Others will see the same question you have, and eventually it may get resolved.  I take satisfaction from seeing, over the course of years, the improvements made to articles that I started.  Awatovi Ruins just popped up in my notifications.  The version which i started in 2007 didn't suggest any specific questions, except perhaps implicitly "why is this site important?", and that has since been addressed. :) --Doncram (talk) 21:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've asked User:Eagledj, the editor who lives there. Maybe he could ask them directly when they acquired the building from the Odd Fellows. There is a portrait of Andrew Jackson in the building, and other paintings by artists whose articles I created a while back. It is fun to see additional wikilinks.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:08, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You may want to take a look now. I have removed the "under construction" tag, as I believe it is finally fine as a stub.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:24, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Could you please take a look
at the Nogales AZ court house pediment File:Santa Cruz Court House pediment.jpg and explain to me just what the heck is going on there. Carptrash (talk) 20:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * User:Carptrash, it depicts Justice, right? (or Lady Justice)  The Siris source (which i copied to Santa Cruz County Courthouse (Nogales, Arizona) from the List of pedimental sculptures in the United States article) states "The Courthouse pediment frieze depicts another female figure of Justice, seated and holding scales in her proper right hand. Behind her on her proper right, a woman stands holding a book in her proper right hand, with left arm outstretched. Neither figure of Justice wears a blindfold."  I see that the seated figure does hold scales, so this seems okay.  It doesn't comment about the boy arriving from her left, also carrying a book.  Hmm, i don't recognize any of them, from my extensive experience in mythology and time travel.  Maybe this is about fairness at the library, and some are being assessed fines for overdue books? :) Or perhaps it is the changeover of laws, from one era to another, with a switch of books reflecting, say, some change of laws in Arizona?  Maybe the woman to the right is hispanic, reflecting Spanish and/or Mexican law, and the new dude is a Yankee. --Doncram (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I got Lady Justice, but, this is a picture I took years ago and I have lost a lot of sleep since wondering about the two other figures. I asked you because (1) you were just at the article and (2) because I thought you might have some insight that I missed.  So far over due library books seems as reasonable as anything.  I shall ponder the hispanic angle a bit.  Walt and I, in our Field Guide to Architectural Sculpture in the United States have identified 32 unblindfolded and 28 blindfolded Justices.  Nowhere else have we discovered anything like overdue library books. Thanks for your efforts, Carptrash (talk) 02:38, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

ANI
In case the ping does not work, you have been mentioned at Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. - Sitush (talk) 07:36, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK for List of Mexican–American War monuments and memorials
Vanamonde (talk) 05:18, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

 * That was archived here. Isle of Man historic sites related. --Doncram (talk) 22:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Moving to draft space
I move the article Gary Orfield‎ to Draft:Gary Orfield‎ because most of the content was uncited and its a BLP. There are a number of articles that link to it. Should I remove the links when I move an article to draft space? Or, keep them in the other articles?

Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:06, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, User:CaroleHenson, thank you for doing what you've been doing for FloridaArmy articles. I have visited some, am not much on bio articles, and didn't contribute to this one.  About your question, I think you can leave redlinks at the other articles.  If you are not yourself deleting any automatically-created redirect to draftspace, someone else or a bot will delete it. In an article in draftspace, I think technically that categories should be altered, e.g. to show as Category:Architects from Oklahoma or whatever, but I understand that under-representation of categories is one of the issues. --Doncram (talk) 16:12, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, thanks, I forgot about the categories. It's been awhile since I've dealt with drafts. ✅ Great to know about the bot that comes along and takes care of the links. This wasn't a FA article, but one they edited with a change to an incorrect year (which they thanked me for, so it may have been a mistake).–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:22, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was a mistake. I'm not even sure how it happened, as crazy as it seems. I was just trying to make the sentence structure better. I am having trouble with my browser window and a jumpy cursor, but I definitely did not mean to change any dates or alter the content other than sentence structure. Thanks for catching the unintended change. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:46, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I thought it was something like that. My pleasure.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent user note
I want to thank you for your lovely comment here. I truly hope that your comment is thoughtfully considered. I didn't want to say anything on the user's page because I don't want to in any way affect the positive impact it may have. I have been seeing some positive changes in the past two days, both in edits and discussion, and I hope that continues to bloom and grow with your encouragement.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and, well, it's complicated. They'll see this, too, don't think they'll mind, they can comment too, or not. --Doncram (talk) 19:54, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Delayed response to your question
--Elkman (Elkspeak) 21:12, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Help with a couple articles
Hi Doncram. Could you please take a look at draft:A. Warren Gould for me? Your assistance and the magic you do would be greatly appreciated. Also perhaps draft:Pughsville, Virginia. I will see if I can add another source or teo for the second. I thought the geo notability guidelines are pretty clear but.. Here we are. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:34, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * User:FloridaArmy, I replied at User talk:FloridaArmy about the architect. Hope you don't mind my replying there;  i wanted to put the links for the NRHP architect search tool and the NRHP infobox tool into your Talk page/archives.  Give me notice or a ping when it is more developed, though I will watchlist it and would probably see if you have submitted it to AFC already.
 * About Pughsville, one idea is to look for historic places in the area to mention. I scanned National Register of Historic Places listings in Suffolk, Virginia but don't see any mentions of NRHP places there. I'll look around more about this one. --Doncram (talk) 18:24, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Pughsville is, I suspect, a historically poorer area. I did look through a historical survey of the area but while several buildings in surrounding areas were identified as NRHP listijg candidates none in Pughsville were. I suspect it will be a merge candidate to the city it is now part of although I would have indue concerns. Perhaps O should expand it with details about the park and sich so it has a better chance to stand alone. Mostly an underdog neglected sort of subject but I think the history is interesting. And James Avery is quite famous. Perhaps someone woll put a marker up by hia home if it's still around. Cheers. FloridaArmy (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Santa Fe Trail Mountain Route-Bent's New Fort
Hi Doncram,

I have been working on articles on the List of forts in Colorado and started working on Santa Fe Trail Mountain Route-Bent's New Fort and saw that you created it in 2017.

I debated about saying something, but I remember reading somewhere that you worked on NRHP articles and thought I'd point out a couple of things, some of which you may know since you drafted this article:
 * There's a template NRISref for creating citations for NRHP articles. You just need to enter the ID and a dataset (usually a year + "a", from what I've seen). I'm not quite sure why a source for a pending registration was used after it was listed. That doesn't prove that it was listed.
 * There was use of a personal website as one of the sources, which is not a WP:RS.
 * There was also uncited content in the article.
 * There were no coordinates or very specific location information.

I'm still working on it, alongside the related Fort Lyon article to clear up confusion about the uses of the fort structure over the years.

If you have articles of this nature that are centered in the west, particularly Colorado or New Mexico, I would be happy to take a look at those as well. If you want help reviewing NRHP or other historical articles, I'm happy to help with that as well.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi CarolHenson thanks for your note. And I am very glad you've found that article and are developing it.  I see that I did start it last year, but that I was not able then to obtain a NRHP registration document to develop it better, and it was in sort of poor shape I will agree.  As a 2016 listing, there should have been an NRHP document available.  Oh, hmm, it was "address restricted", that was the problem, so the NRHP document would not be routinely available, would only possibly be available with redactions.  Not sure why I bothered to start the article then.  That's why I would not have found coordinates for it, too.


 * Hmm, I guess I created for reason given in edit summary at Bent's New Fort, i.e. "(redirect to new NRHP listing article, rather than to Fort Lyon, where it is not described)". I was able then to provide something, though no great, better than nothing.  Now it is at least mentioned in the Fort Lyon article, presumably by your efforts there.  Now you know more about it than I do.  I take it that it was an earlier fort at the Fort Lyon site?  If it makes sense to merge this into a section there, I would be fine with you doing whatever along those lines.


 * In general I would be thrilled to cooperate on Colorado and New Mexico NRHP articles! How can we do it?  I have worked on joint worklists with others before, e.g. to address a state's NRHP articles with "NRIS-only" status (For Colorado there are about 90 "NRIS-only" ones now, pretty much the ones most needing development by use of NRHP documents now usually available on-line), and I have tried to find someone in Colorado to do that with, in fact.


 * About the NRISref, I think that is obsolete or otherwise not useful, relative to alternatives, and probably its usage should be eliminated. Maybe you could point to some usages of it which you think are good, that we could then discuss?  Oops, I thought you were pointing to something else.  Yes, NRISref is fine as way to reference the NRIS database, if you have in fact accessed the NRIS database, which I did not have access to for this site.  I usually access NRIS via the "Elkman infobox generator" which currently has a version of NRIS covering through some date in 2014.  So I had nothing in this article from NRIS, so I would not reference it. --Doncram (talk) 22:48, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Ah, gotcha on the NRISref!!! Crazy me, I still use it, because it's a registered listing... but there are other sources that go beyond it being a pending registration, like this NPS source. But, this is the first time there's a listing beyond the last valid data set of 2013a (from what I can tell).


 * And now maybe you've seen I put in a reference to the appropriate "Weekly list", instead, which is what really is the source for NRHP reference numbers in the NRHP list-articles, as maintained by several editors (not me) who update the NRHP list-articles every week or two. And that was really the source for the refnum here, but I guess I could not find the weekly list at the time, so i went with some pending listings list.  You gotcha me on this, because it wasn't great how i left it. --Doncram (talk) 23:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Good question on working on NRHP articles! I just finished a couple, but the one that would be wonderful for you to take a look at, if you're interested is Doyle Settlement.


 * Okay i will visit there. At least I can add the link to the photos which were part of the NRHP document already referenced, and improve the reference a bit. --Doncram (talk) 23:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I prefer places with historical significance (more than just being an architecturally interesting place). What is your criteria? I can look for some others once I finish work on this article and Fort Lyon.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The arguably worst Colorado NRHP articles are the 85 found in this PetScan search. I would copy them out to some page, maybe a section at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Colorado, and go to it.  I rarely know beforehand if an NRHP will be "merely" about architecture or if it will have other historical event/people associations. --Doncram (talk) 23:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Very cool. I don't know about the tool you used. I am most interested in working on any of these: Central City Opera House, Chautauqua Auditorium (Boulder, Colorado), Victor Downtown Historic District (I worked on Victor, Colorado - merge potential?), Midland Terminal Railroad Depot (I worked on articles all around this topic), Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Passenger Depot (Colorado Springs, Colorado), Comanche Crossing of the Kansas Pacific Railroad, Arapahoe Acres (interested in seeing if there's more to this).–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:36, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe we could switch to discuss specific ones at Talk:National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Colorado. I could try inviting some others to participate in that more public spot.
 * To tell the truth, I don't often run the PetScan tool. I watch the maps at top and tables within wp:NRHPPROGRESS (can jump to the Colorado tables section at wp:NRHPPROGRESSCO) which updates frequently.  I have been working in other states recently, but would be really happy to do Colorado for a while. --Doncram (talk) 23:47, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok, sounds good. If any of the ones I mentioned are of interest to you, do you mind replying there?


 * I think I need a decoder ring for the tools (it's all Greek to me), but I'll go take a look at the links you provided.


 * Regarding the Doyle Settlement article, if it's ok with you I am going to add back the reference that I used (and not remove your reference): 1) it's what I used and then I don't have to cross-check that it has the same info and 2) it's immediately accessible without having to download anything.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:53, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * About the NRHP reference in Doyle Settlement, in this edit I changed it to my current standard format for NRHP documents. It looks a little different but it is linking to exactly the same document you had linked to before.  You have to check this out for yourself i guess, but your NRHP doc URL https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset/7ab0094b-4c90-4f0c-9fb7-1b2498202db9 goes exactly to the same document i have linked there using URL https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/GetAsset/NRHP/80000922_text.  (I also added a link to the photos, and added the author and date of prep from Section 11 in the document.) --Doncram (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2018 (UTC)


 * So sorry, my mistake. I was clicking on the first link. Yep, that's the same doc! Love the link to the additional photos!!! Thanks so much for bearing with me on this.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:19, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No problemo, at all. I am dumping a lot too fast probably.  In this case, the photos link is worthwhile, it has some beautiful B&W photos. :) --Doncram (talk) 00:32, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

NPP Backlog Elimination Drive
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive! Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. —  Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)  06:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * As a final push, we have decided to run a backlog elimination drive from the 20th to the 30th of June.
 * Reviewers who review at least 50 articles or redirects will receive a Special Edition NPP Barnstar: NPPbarnstar SE.png. Those who review 100, 250, 500, or 1000 pages will also receive tiered awards: RR3217-0014 100 rubles USSR 1989 Gold avers.png, Swiss-Commemorative-Coin-1991-CHF-250-reverse.png, Coin of Kazakhstan 500Thinker averse.png, US-$1000-SC-1878-FR-346a-PROOF.jpg.
 * Please do not be hasty, take your time and fully review each page. It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing.

Memorials in Taganrog
Doncram, I am disinclined to create or participate in the creation of List of monuments in Taganrog or any other such article, as I am completely unfamiliar with the topic and do not speak Russian (where any available significant sources might be found). Further, I find that any city, town or hamlet will have a number of monuments to its own war heroes or popular artists or local history; the creation of a list article about such monuments for any city that has them would be more than Wikipedia needs. However, if you feel inclined to create such a list article, have at it. I'll wait to see what you come up with. That being said, I feel that the current articles that I've nominated for deletion should, at the very least, be draftified (to preserve their history) so they can be merged into whatever list article you create. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply. Well, Taganrog is an unusual city, like St. Petersburg afterward, created by the Tsar to make a major seaport, and it could have become the capital of Russia or near to that.  Also it happened to be where Checkhov was born, and related to its special history it has the only monument in Russia to Alexander I(?).  It is not at all like "any city, town or hamlet", for which I agree we do not need separate lists of their monuments.  Okay, i will start a list. --Doncram (talk) 20:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You seem much better versed in the material than I. Have at it! WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:08, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

On Ujjawal Krishnam
I strongly believe that the article must not be deleted. Please see to my POV and do participate in discussion in AfD. AchaksurvisayaUdvejin (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2018 (UTC) AchaksurvisayaUdvejin (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

List of lakes named McArthur
I have rolled back your last two edits to this article. Please do not remove sourced content without discussion on the article's talk page. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 18:00, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Including that you are inserting, into mainspace, the absolutely false assertion that there is a McArthur Lake in Goldsboro, North Carolina?
 * This relates to Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 19, which is a follow-on to Articles for deletion/McArthur Lake (2nd nomination), and is where this should be discussed, as an open ongoing community discussion. --Doncram (talk) 18:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

A page you started (Henry Hollister House) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Henry Hollister House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Lineslarge just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Thanks for creating this article."

To reply, leave a comment on Lineslarge's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Lineslarge (talk) 07:53, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi User:Lineslarge, thanks i guess. But I am curious why my new articles have started to be "reviewed", as I create lots of article and have "autopatrolled" status.  Just in the last day or two started to get "your article has been reviewed" notices, as if my articles are show up in a new pages patrol queue.  Do you know?  Where did you find this article to be reviewed? --Doncram (talk) 13:25, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a bug that should be fixed on Monday. Discussion at WP:VPT. MB 14:50, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Hmm, should i create more articles and add to the New Pages backlog, or just edit existing articles.  Ve shall see. --Doncram (talk) 15:06, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks MB for solving the mystery on my behalf. I did indeed find your article in the New pages feed, while trying to help with the current backlog drive. Glad to hear the bug is being fixed. Lineslarge (talk) 21:04, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

"No place on Earth does Carnival like Rio!": a feminist critique of racial democracy through the analysis of transnational tourism article
What do you mean you can't read it? Does the pdf not load for you? Do you want me to send you the pdf? It's 112 pages long. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk to me • ✍️ Contributions) 22:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This is about Articles for deletion/Rua Farme de Amoedo. I thought i could not access a document there, but the suggestion that you have access makes me try harder.  Okay, I find that I can download the whole thing.  And it mentions that Farme Beach but doesn't have a lot about it.  I will update what i say about this source in the AFD when I post there again.  Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 22:50, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * No problem. Ps you may wanna automatically archive some old posts. Your page is taking a little long to load on slow connections. And causes mobile chrome to be a bit laggy. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk to me • ✍️ Contributions) 07:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, Wikipedia as gazetteer, HTO
Hi Doncram: First, I would like to apologize for jumping the gun on the AfD. I have concluded that I do not understand the policies well enough to nominate an AfD. I also have a question and an extended comment.

You mentioned something to the effect that Wikipedia functions as a gazetteer at our discussion about an AfD. I should know more about it. Where is a good place to start for understanding that policy or guideline? Also, given your extensive work on the NRHP-project, your own opinions about Wikipedia as gazetteer would be helpful.

The second issue I would like to raise is the Handbook of Texas Online as a source. If I am understanding your position, and please correct me if I am wrong, you are claiming that if a publication is reliable, then we must accept all of its constituent articles as reliable. There is varying quality depending on the article. Some of its authors are professional historians; others are amateur historians. Many of the uploads are from the print version. Though professionally written, some may have old information which has not been updated. The TSHA is currently underfunded and they are relying on volunteers to update their articles. Some of the articles (for example, Five Points, Texas) appear to be sourced only by genealogy user sites, which if I understand policy correctly, Wikipedia does not accept as a type of reliable source. FWIW, I have edited many articles about Texas and frequently cite articles from HTO. However, there are some materials and articles that I don’t use if I have reasonable suspicions. I would not use the Five Points, Texas HTO article to support a Wikipedia edit: it’s sourced only by a genealogy user site. This is a justifiable editorial judgement on my part. Similarly with newspapers, they are reliable sources, but not all newspaper content is suitable for Wikipedia. These would include most (if not all) op-eds and the click-bait now infiltrating journalism. Even articles assigned as legitimate news stories can turn out to be unreliable. For example, recall the story of Jayson Blair of the New York Times. Thanks, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 13:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC) Edited once by Oldsanfelipe (talk) 15:30, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: William Frederick Holmes House has been accepted
 William Frederick Holmes House, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=William_Frederick_Holmes_House help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Draft:Rigby's Water World
Hello Don, i work quite a little bit about this draft I mentioned. 49.145.246.5 (talk) 04:29, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Retitle the L.A. Task Force
Your attention is called to the discussion here, suggesting retitling Los Angeles Task Force to Los Angeles County Task Force. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:42, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Spires Boling
Hi Doncram. I don't know if you have a worklist but I think an article on this early American architect would be interesting. His work on courthouses and homes and as a slaveholder features in the lives of Ida B. Wells, William Faulkner, and others. I think it would be a useful entry. For example jist clarifying the spelling of his name and cataloguing his work would be welcome. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:25, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * FYI, there are only three matches on Newspapers.com, about the Boling-Gatewood House. Not a single obituary.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:30, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't done in depth research but there seems to be quite a bit available on Google Books and other sources such as this one about a prominent former UGA literature professor and author building a monument to him. His courthouse work and Holly Springs controbutions do seem to have gone under the radar a bit which is why I think an article would be so welcome. His important work and legacy should be more available to readers. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Lafayette County Courthouse (Mississippi), on Courthouse Square in Oxford, Mississippi, is the only building that is found easily as being an individually-listed NRHP property using the Elkman search tool "Query by architect", searching on "Boling". There are some sources in its article, and the NRHP doc is here with pics four photos from 1977 here.  It is an architecturally substantial building, enough to convince me he _should_ be notable, besides the fact of his cool-sounding name.  The NRHP doc talks about Faulkner, etc., however calls S. Boling "obscure".  Hmm, often NRHP docs give a pretty substantial bio for an architect, but not this one.
 * Also if he designed a number of courthouses then some of them will turn out to be contributing buildings in NRHP-listed historic districts perhaps with some info available about him in the corresponding NRHP documents, just not found so easily.
 * Oh i see the Bolling–Gatewood House is a contributing property in East Holly Springs Historic District; the district's NRHP doc states "In addition, the proposed district features several homes designed by Holly Springs architect Spires Boiling, including the Bolling-Gatewood House (#209), White Pillars (#234), and Finley Place (#128), each distinguished by its octagonal columns."  Bolling-Gatewood is pic #53, White Pillars is pic #56, Finley Place is pic #40, in the accompanying photos for the historic district.
 * One of those non-NRHP sources gives at least his birth and death years. This has added up to enough for a short article at least.  The overlaps with Faulkner and Ida B. Wells seem interesting.  FloridaArmy, thanks for bring this up, and thanks ZigZig20s for your searching too.  I would be glad to see either of you start up Draft:Spires Boling or Draft:Spires Bolling to which I would add. --Doncram (talk) 03:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * P.S. The Holly Springs Courthouse Square Historic District (currently a redlink) is NRHP-listed and indeed its courthouse was designed by Boling, per the NRHP document. --Doncram (talk) 03:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Also Walter Place (Holly Springs, Mississippi). FloridaArmy (talk) 12:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

I also think there should be a stand-alone article on federally designated NRHP historic districts. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:28, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Colonette

 * Please quote your sources.
 * There is no such page in French Wikipedia.Xx236 (talk) 09:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I came across the term in NRHP document for Hamlett-Smith House, was surprised there was not an article for it yet. Seems like it does need to be defined in Wikipedia, like other architectural terms. I may have browsed a couple dictionary definitions online, did not find my way to any great, definitive, learned source with etymology etc. —Doncram (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Walter C. Root
Hello. Might you be interested in working on Walter C. Root please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:37, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:02, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

WP US PLACE

 * 15:34, 27 June 2016‎ Doncram (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (1,622 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Doncram moved page Washington County Courthouse (Idaho) to Washington County Courthouse (Weiser, Idaho): consistent with naming policy for U.S. places) (undo | thank)
 * Hi. It looks to me as though you are right with these courthouse moves, but an editor has been going round moving them again. You might want to discuss with him. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:52, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Drafts
Any thoughts on Draft:Estes Mann? Also, I would love to see Draft:John G. Zehmer Jr. restored to mainspace. Unfortunately the sourcing is a little light. Any ideas or suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi. You've seen that I used AFC reviewer tool to "approve" Estes Mann, who is clearly notable, and there is enough in the article for it to be further developed in mainspace, and I am comfortable about architect standards.  About John G. Zehmer Jr. (currently redlink), I do think that historic preservationists can be notable and that this guy probably is, but it would be nice to see the article developed more, and I would prefer for someone more comfortable with BIO articles in general to make the approval.  I browsed in one of those sources which goes on about his role with numerous houses and historic districts, some of which may have NRHP listing docs which cover his role.  I would be happy about trying to develop links and references about those. --Doncram (talk) 20:16, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * There is Category:Historical preservationists, with random ones I just browsed having substantially more development than the current draft for Zehmer. For architect articles, a list of works pretty much suffices.  It has been discussed at AFDs that a list-article of works can be a valid article, and whether we call it "list of works by X-man" or just "X-man" doesn't matter.  For a preservationist, a list of works would also be helpful, each with some explanation of his role. --Doncram (talk) 20:23, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for thr helpful suggestions. I expanded it accordingly. We will see what happens.. FloridaArmy (talk) 20:51, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

On the other hand...
...I wonder if we are doing a disservice to our readers by failing to mention the Nathan Bedford Forrest Bust in the history of Nashville, Tennessee. It seems odd to censor the fact that he was inducted there and the city/state still celebrates him in their state house. What do you think?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * A section about both sculptures could be added to the History of Tennessee article too. Carptrash (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Ozark giraffes
Westside Service Station and Riverside Motel in Oklahoma is one place Ozark Giraffe architecture (currently a redlink) turns up. Someone needs to start an article on it! Giraffe Houses or Ozark Giraffes appear mostly in Arkansas, but few in Nebraska too, per this architectural observer blog. Per this Accidental Mystery article/blog, they showed up in the 1910s but were popularized "during the 1930s by Missouri agricultural extension bulletins, which described how to build a house from indigenous stone. Often used as a veneer over standard frame houses, the thick slabs could be structural as well." --Doncram (talk) 21:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

Overall the June backlog drive was a success, reducing the last 3,000 or so to below 500. However, as expected, 90% of the patrolling was done by less than 10% of reviewers. Since the drive closed, the backlog has begun to rise sharply again and is back up to nearly 1,400 already. Please help reduce this total and keep it from raising further by reviewing some articles each day.
 * June backlog drive


 * New technology, new rules
 * New features are shortly going to be added to the Special:NewPagesFeed which include a list of drafts for review, OTRS flags for COPYVIO, and more granular filter preferences. More details can be found at this page.
 * Probationary permissions: Now that PERM has been configured to allow expiry dates to all minor user rights, new NPR flag holders may sometimes be limited in the first instance to 6 months during which their work will be assessed for both quality and quantity of their reviews. This will allow admins to accord the right in borderline cases rather than make a flat out rejection.
 * Current reviewers who have had the flag for longer than 6 months but have not used the permissions since they were granted will have the flag removed, but may still request to have it granted again in the future, subject to the same probationary period, if they wish to become an active reviewer.


 * Editathons
 * Editathons will continue through August. Please be gentle with new pages that obviously come from good faith participants, especially articles from developing economies and ones about female subjects. Consider using the 'move to draft' tool rather than bluntly tagging articles that may have potential but which cannot yet reside in mainspace.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. —  Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)  00:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The Signpost
 * The next issue of the monthly magazine will be out soon. The newspaper is an excellent way to stay up to date with news and new developments between our newsletters. If you have special messages to be published, or if you would like to submit an article (one about NPR perhaps?), don't hesitate to contact the editorial team here.

User:NationalRegisterBot/AllNRHPPages/Duplications
Please don't edit User:NationalRegisterBot/AllNRHPPages/Duplications, it won't fix anything. If you find an incorrect duplicate there, notify the bot operator (i.e. me), and it will eventually be taken care of. (It's caused by incorrect refnums, you have to figure out which listing has the wrong one.)  Magic ♪piano 00:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Magicpiano, okay, thank you for paying attention there. You must have noticed that I deleted two there, Emma and Ed Rogers House and Lakeview Avenue Historic District.  In the wt:NRHP, I did end up starting articles for all of the duplicates (besides those two, which weren't duplicates as far as i could tell), so there should not be any future issues like these ones, knock on wood.  I hope the WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Progress/Duplicates page might work better for you too, i.e. be simpler if there are any manual steps required, for you to have "articled" same as "total" everywhere now.  Thanks. --Doncram (talk) 01:04, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Bust
Thanks for adding the bust to the capitol article. My question was initially about Forrest himself. I feel the fact that he was inducted by Morton in Nashville should be mentioned, but we need to contextualize it. We (I) don't want to "glamorize" this guy. NeoConfederates may view him as a "Southern hero" but his organization terrorized countless US citizens. I need your dispassionate perspective on this. Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * FYI.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:53, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Category:Northern Pacific Railway stations in Washington (state)
If you think the categorization scheme should be changed then you should open a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains and gain consensus for your view. Opposing the maintenance deletion of a single empty category, while ignoring the rest of the set, isn't the way to accomplish this. Mackensen (talk) 11:01, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Behaviour at Articles for deletion/Buriel Clay Theater
Your comment here, and those throughout the whole AfD are entirely unsuitable - saying "The term "MAD" in the deletion nominator's chosen username suggests anger [...] the nomination seems grounded in anger about paid editing without evidence" and referring to an editor's mental state is never acceptable. What makes you think there is an emotional aspect to the nomination? When you said "the AFD itself is a demand that others pay attention", were you attempting to say is doing this for attention?

I strongly suggest you strike the accusations, stop with edit summaries like this (there is nothing slanderous about that tag, and I doubt you want to fall on the wrong side of WP:NLT) and apologise to Chrissymad.

I expect better from long-time editors such as yourself, even if they have faced issues relating to conduct in the past. - TNT 💖 20:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors, which you did not do on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Buriel Clay Theater. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia. I'm templating you, as you seem to have ignored my message above - if you continue to cast aspersions, I will block you. - TNT 💖 20:25, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * August 2018


 * Okay, I am seeing these several messages just now. I replied already at the AFD, was reverted and restored my edit dropping one phrase that was objected to.  It is nonsense to assert that my comment on the username, i.e. that "mad" in bold and all-caps suggests anger, is any kind of personal attack.  It is an observation, provided as a courtesy as part of explanation after Chrissymad asked me to explain ("What on earth was unfriendly about my question?").  I am not familiar with Chrissymad's editing otherwise, but their behavior was borderline then over the border uncivil in my experience at that AFD and related pages. --Doncram (talk) 20:36, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't particularly care if you're "familiar with Chrissymad's editing" - the comments "The term "MAD" in the deletion nominator's chosen username suggests anger" and "the AFD itself is a demand that others pay attention" is a personal attack by the exact wording of the policy. You should never need to comment on the nominating editor at an AfD, as you should be discussing the content. You've repeatedly failed to assume good faith with regards to Chrissymad's supposed intentions, and attempted to cast aspersions. I see no striking of the personal attacks, nor any apology - would you like me to take this over to WP:ANI? - TNT 💖 20:49, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * may one ask what's wrong with just blocking for a personal attack ? It's so much nicer than an ANI thread. Nick (talk) 21:05, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * (ec) About "the AFD itself is a demand that others pay attention", do let's not get bogged down in that. It is a factual statement that any editor's opening of an AFD will force multiple other editors' attention. I did not say this is a particularly egregious case of that, but there are many unnecessary AFDs opened that cost other editors' time (e.g. when someone could simply move or redirect an article without discussion, or when the nomination does not include any acceptable reason for deletion, or they do not disclose whether they have performed wp:BEFORE or not, etc.), and I often do object to AFDs having been opened. In general I am an inclusionist and in very general terms I consider AFDs to be negative impositions on the rest of editors. Please don't misunderstand that; i have quite a decent AFDSTATs record and I would not if I supported keeping truly inappropriate articles. Amazingly to me, someone else chided me not long ago for calling AFDs fundamentally negative. Of course they are negative, that is what they are.
 * In this context, I was mentioning the opening of the AFD itself as one of the demands made by that editor, i.e. that there were making multiple demands of others, as part of answering their question about what comes across as unfriendly. Their making demand for an apology is another demand. In my view, and I think others would support this, there is an obligation on part of an AFD nominator to explain themselves when questioned, i.e. they should be somewhat open to responding to demands of others, and they have somewhat less right to be making demands upon others. That is reasonable etiquette and practice as I understand it. This AFD began to go off the rails when they seemed to pointedly NOT explain themself when questioned, which came across as rude when they have some obligation to be polite.
 * About my observation that "MAD" in username conveys something to me and probably to others, I don't see any part of No_personal_attacks which applies, could you be more specific? --Doncram (talk) 21:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence." from the link you posted. IMO, you have been over that line several times.   21:21, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Final time that I'm going to ask you to stop. Remove the comments. Or I'm going to block you. Per your repeated blocks for conduct, my block will be indefinite to prevent further disruption. - TNT 💖 21:25, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You stated that "there is an obligation on part of an AFD nominator to explain themselves when questioned." You didn't question their reasoning as to the deletion discussion; you questioned their username and claimed that "the nomination seems grounded in anger about paid editing without evidence". That is a personal attack. Vermont (talk) 21:29, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Geez, I don't know who you people are or how you found your way here; I don't recognize your names from AFDs I've been involved in.  About "further disruption", I don't want to cause that and I won't comment further at that AFD.  About the rest, I don't understand, except I think some are reading more into what I said than what I meant or said.  I need to think a bit about how to further respond;  I think I would like to ask elsewhere for some advice. --Doncram (talk) 21:47, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

McArthur Lake (Saskatchewan)
I have rolled back the drastic changes you made to this article. Information about location, terrain, climate etc. are absolutely relevant. Please discuss any future changes on the article's talk page and gain consensus before vandalizing the article. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:59, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 12
Newsletter • August 2018

This month: WikiProject X: The resumption

Work has resumed on WikiProject X and CollaborationKit, backed by a successfully funded Project Grant. For more information on the current status and planned work, please see this month's issue of the newsletter!

-— Isarra ༆ 22:24, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open
Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Cheers, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

adding articles?
how? i saw u did but i cant. Sofiagrama6 (talk) 23:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, i see you have found your way to create two draft articles, Draft:Dashie and another, which are not yet suitable for including in Wikipedia as regular articles. But you seem to have found how to submit them for consideration.  Please do develop one of them or a different topic. --Doncram (talk) 23:55, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

McPhaul Suspension Bridge
Hi! If/when you have a moment, would you mind having a look at this page in preview? I messed up something with the lat long in the infobox and not sure how to fix it, despite copying it from the AZ listings table. Thanks! I know it needs more sourcing, working on that over next day or two but think it should stand as a stub      <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">StarM</b> 02:24, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Never mind. got it (and thank you!)       <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">StarM</b> 02:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you to User:MB, who was perhaps stalking here? And I added the NRHP document to the article and a bit from it;  the article can be developed more from that source if not others.  Hey, User talk:Star Mississippi, are you aware of the NRHP infobox creator tool which is available?  It generates a filled-out infobox and a NRHP document reference.  The infobox works for NRHPs listed up to some date in 2014, and the NRHP document reference works for most states (including Arizona).  It's what I just used to create the reference, although I adapted it a bit to customize author names and preparation date and the number and date of photos.  Hope this might help you in the future, and keep up your good work! Cheers, --Doncram (talk) 03:11, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm not, or perhaps I forgot as it sounds like something you'd probably have linked me to when I was more active. Either way, thanks for the heads up. Much cleaner than my attempt to build it from another article's infobox and table data which required a bunch of clean up (thank you!) I have a couple more souces that I stumbled on, which I'll add at the weekend. That's how this rabbit hole started, and then I realized there was no Wikipedia page.       <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">StarM</b> 00:56, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Milhist coordinator election voting has commenced
G'day everyone, voting for the 2018 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:22, 15 September 2018 (UTC) Note: the previous version omitted a link to the election page, therefore you are receiving this follow up message with a link to the election page to correct the previous version. We apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

NPR Newsletter No.13 18 September 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

The New Page Feed currently has 2700 unreviewed articles, up from just 500 at the start of July. For a while we were falling behind by an average of about 40 articles per day, but we have stabilised more recently. Please review some articles from the back of the queue if you can (Sort by: 'Oldest' at Special:NewPagesFeed), as we are very close to having articles older than one month.


 * Project news
 * The New Page Feed now has a new "Articles for Creation" option which will show drafts instead of articles in the feed, this shouldn't impact NPP activities and is part of the WMF's AfC Improvement Project.
 * As part of this project, the feed will have some larger updates to functionality next month. Specifically, ORES predictions will be built in, which will automatically flag articles for potential issues such as vandalism or spam. Copyright violation detection will also be added to the new page feed. See the projects's talk page for more info.


 * There are a number of coordination tasks for New Page Patrol that could use some help from experienced reviewers. See New pages patrol/Coordination for more info to see if you can help out.


 * Other
 * A new summary page of reliable sources has been created; Identifying reliable sources/Perennial sources, which summarizes existing RfCs or RSN discussions about regularly used sources.


 * Moving to Draft and Page Mover
 * Some unsuitable new articles can be best reviewed by moving them to the draft space, but reviewers need to do this carefully and sparingly. It is most useful for topics that look like they might have promise, but where the article as written would be unlikely to survive AfD. If the article can be easily fixed, or if the only issue is a lack of sourcing that is easily accessible, tagging or adding sources yourself is preferable. If sources do not appear to be available and the topic does not appear to be notable, tagging for deletion is preferable (PROD/AfD/CSD as appropriate). See additional guidance at WP:DRAFTIFY.
 * If the user moves the draft back to mainspace, or recreates it in mainspace, please do not re-draftify the article (although swapping it to maintain the page history may be advisable in the case of copy-paste moves). AfC is optional except for editors with a clear conflict of interest.
 * Articles that have been created in contravention of our paid-editing-requirements or written from a blatant NPOV perspective, or by authors with a clear COI might also be draftified at discretion.
 * The best tool for draftification is User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js(info). Kindly adapt the text in the dialogue-pop-up as necessary (the default can also be changed like this). Note that if you do not have the Page Mover userright, the redirect from main will be automatically tagged as CSD R2, but in some cases it might be better to make this a redirect to a different page instead.
 * The Page Mover userright can be useful for New Page Reviewers; occasionally page swapping is needed during NPR activities, and it helps avoid excessive R2 nominations which must be processed by admins. Note that the Page Mover userright has higher requirements than the NPR userright, and is generally given to users active at Requested Moves. Only reviewers who are very experienced and are also very active reviewers are likely to be granted it solely for NPP activities.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)