Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American football/Archive 1

Introduction
I have created this WikiProject in order to clean up the football strategy content. We are currently in the building stages. Please use this space to discuss any thing you feel would be relevent to this project and where we want to go with it. --Jayron32 14:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

My ideas for this project
OK. I have done some thinking about what this project should entail. Feel free to post your own ideas. Before we get started, we should reach some community consensus on this.

Our goal should be to provide a structure and organization to all of the information we have at wikipedia on American football strategy. My vision is a 3-level structure that looks like the following:


 * Category level-- There should be one category, called "American football strategy". All other that we deal with (American football formations, American football positions, etc.) should be collapsed into this one category.
 * Subject level-- We should be working to write single subject (as opposed to single topic) articles. Thus, the articles should be thing slike "American football positions", "American football formations" etc.
 * Topic level-- Individual topics should be sections within each article outlined above. Thus, "Quarterback" and "Linebacker" will be sub-sections of the article titled "American football positions."  The individual articles that exist now should be merged and redirects set up (using the #section tag) to direct searches to the section of main articles.

This organization structure should help reduce the current hodgepodge to a more managable set of articles. As it is right now, certain topics, like say I-formation, have fully explained definitions in 4-5 different articles. We should reduce this to one article, if at all possible. This is only one possibility. I want everyone else that joins this project to give their own opinions on what should happen. Our goal should be to have 10 or so articles, all of which are "Good Article" quality or better, rather than the 100 or so crappy articles we have now.

Other things that need to be done (as I see it)


 * Create a unified style for all articles in the project. Do we write separate articles on offense and defense for each subject, or keep them as sections of one article (I am leaning towards the latter, but not strongly.  If the articles become too large, dividing them may make more sense.)  Each article should look like it belongs to part of the unified project, and should meet the highest standards of quality as set my the Manual of Style
 * Create a set of graphics to use in each article. I have been using the  tags, but it looks cheesy.  We should create graphics that fit each article.
 * References, references, references. EACH article should be heavily cross references with well-written external websites.  Even if you write information from your own head, go out and find a website that verifies what you have written and reference it in either the references or the external links section.  Good wikipedia articles do this, and our project should as well.  Our goal should be to provide proof of the truth we write, as well as resources for people who want to get more information themselves.  We should establish as canon of good websites, and list them on the main project page, for all of the various editors to use and cite in their own work.

Well, that's what I see. My plan is to do nothing but discuss these point and any others you have foir about 1 week before beginning on teh actual work of the project. I figure 1 week ought to give us enough time to hammer out a consensus on the project, and then we can get to work in earnest on the project. --Jayron32 18:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Lots of good discussion already on this talk page. I've gone ahead and created the Category:American football strategy and begun populating it, although there are still a lot more articles to add and I haven't done any subcategories yet, which as I understand are still up for debate? I'll try to get to some more things, and feedback, later on. --Daniel11 23:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Uploading diagrams
I have created a BUNCH of .PNG files to use a graphics in these articles. I am in the process of slowly uploading them (I have dial-up. It takes time.)  I have started with Formation (American football). Check it out there and make any comments/suggestions to let me know what you all think. If these look good, I would like to use them in ALL articles, so we have a consistant look & feel to all of our articles. --Jayron32 17:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Some ideas
I have put some thought into Jayron's idea above for organization and like it. Here's how I envision the structure: --                                (a) "American football strategy" |        ---         |                 |                |                |                 |      (b)American     (c) American     (d) American     (e) American     (f) American football        football         football         football         football positions       offensive        defensive        Special          Offensive |             formations       formations       teams            plays |                |                |                |                 |        -     ---      --      --      ---       (g)QB, WR, etc   (h)pro-set,I, etc. (i)4-3,3-4,etc  (j)kickoff,etc  (k)running, passing plays --

My ideas(along the same lines as Jayron's) are thus:

(a) "American football strategy" becomes a much tighter article (and also a category) with less specific examples of strategy- the "meat" of the category goes into the second tier-which are the "subject" articles. btw, I'm not sure if I like the title "American football strategy." Can anyone think of a better name ? For the time being, I'll assume that is a working title. (b) Obviously, there has to be an article on positions. Alternately, I had thought about a merge with ALL offensive positions going into (c), defensive positions going into (d) and kickers, etc going into (e). Now I am leaning to an article on positions (although a brief description along with a link to article (b) will be needed in articles (c), (d), and (e). For the third "tier", all the current articles on those topics will be merged and redirects placed.

I'll wait for input on this suggestion, in the meantime, I am writing down a list of the football articles I find so that no matter what the Project community decides, we can swiftly act on the decisions made and merge, redirect, etc. in a semi-orderly way. American football here is currently a mess (some would say clusterf___)...

Jcam 16:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Another thought
After some more thought, I have decided that maybe it would be a better idea to include offensive formations and plays into Offensive philosophy, and defensive formations and schemes into Defensive philosophy. Jcam 16:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Final Thoughts for today
After further review...

Today I went through the list of articles and put down what I think needs to be done with them (see here ). Here's some final thoughts:

(1) The main subject articles which we should have for American football strategy are (imho): 1. American football positions 2. Offensive philosophy (American football) 3. Defensive philosophy (American football) 4. Scoring (American football) 5. Special Teams 6.American football rules (2) This is what should be done with those articles: (3) Most of the other articles on single topics should be merged (with a redirect) into one of the above categories. Some of those will eventually be rewritten(and perhaps should), but at least a "top down" approach will be taken, instead of the haphazard one now. But it should be a complete article- if for example, the article for "line plunge" can't be written so that it fills a page when printed out, it should not be rewritten. For the most part, articles on positions, ways of scoring, plays, formations, schemes, etc should be merged(taking what is good from them) with a redirect to the subject article(which will be much improved hopefully.
 * American football strategy- Should be tightened up, brief description of categories of other articles. If article were printed out, no more than 2 or 3 pages.
 * American football positions- listed by offense, then defense, then special teams. In depth information.
 * Offensive philosophy (American football)- should have sections on general strategy, positions(briefly), offensive formations(in depth), plays (further categorized into run and pass, possibly a section on trick plays).
 * Defensive philosophy- should have sections on general strategy, positions(brief), formations, special formations, schemes, etc.
 * Scoring- touchdown, field goal, safety, extra point, two-point conversion... in depth on when each happens etc.
 * Special teams- sections on field goals, punting, receiving, etc. section on trick plays on special teams.
 * Rules- Extend, improve per Manual of Style.
 * Glossary- complete with updated redirects to sections of articles above as applicable.

actions taken today: I will let this sit for a few days, wait for comments, and go from there. I do; however, plan on merging Gridiron football with American football as these terms are the same.

Jcam 18:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Lets throw some more stuff against the wall and see what sticks
Good ideas all, Jcam. Some more stuff to consider:


 * 1) I have created graphics for a LOT of stuff. It took only a few hours on Paint to put them together.  Check out the formations article for an example of the style of the graphics.  I am working on uploading them.  Right now, I have graphics for ALL of the following bits:
 * All formations currently in the formation article
 * All standard positions on offense and defense (I-form and 4-3 base sets with positions highlighted in yellow)
 * Many standard running plays and receiver routes with arrows and diagrams and such (again from the I-form base set)
 * Many standard defensive schemes (man, zone, cover 2, cover 3, etc.), color coded and such (based on the 4-3 base set)
 * Other graphics to highlight key concepts (the line of scrimmage, the box, the pocket).
 * I have a dial-up connection, so I am slowly working on uploading these. The point to make here is, with these graphics, the load times and page sizes could be huge if we don't split into "Offense" "Defense" and "Special Teams" for each major article.  Would still only leave 10 or so articles, again a major improvement.


 * 2) We need to hammer out a naming convention for the articles and stick to it. I tend to shy away from parenthetical names.  I think we should consider naming all articles American Football XXXXXXXX where XXXXXXX is the focus of the article (Special Teams, Plays, Offensive positions, whatever).  The master article tentatively titled American Football Strategy should have headings that reflect the main article titles with short synopses and use the  tag to redirect people to the expanded articles.


 * 3) Try this on for size: Positions (divided into 2 articles: offense and defense); Formations (divided into offense and defense); Offensive Plays (for individual plays & pass routes); Defensive Schemes(coverages, rush schemes, stunts, etc.); Offensive Strategies (for overall offenive strategies like West Coast); Defensive Strategies (likewise) Special Teams; Rules; Field.

So how does all of that sound? --Jayron32 19:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know how much effort those graphics entailed, but it would probably be easier if you used a more sophisticated graphics package so that you could modify and reuse the basic elements. I haven't used Paint in ages so I don't even know what it's capable of, but I'd imagine it's far more difficult than with other programs, including free software. Also, perhaps some other type of software would be even more effective than graphics design software, but I'm not that familiar with it. --Daniel11 03:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, with Paint it took 2 hours to make about 60 pictures. Thats 2 minutes each.  I just made the master file with all of the position circles and the cut and paste.  It was super fast.  A more sophisticated graphics package may make some nicer graphics, but I'd have to either a) buy it or b) download it and ALSO c) learn it.  Paint did what I needed it to do.  If you want to design better looking graphics feel free.  I wouldn't be hurt. --Jayron32 03:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no objection to the way they look -- it's great that you're able to do that, and quickly, with Paint! --Daniel11 06:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It appears my template may be too late, but I'll try anyways. I put together a template at User:Mecu/FootballFormationTest where you can customize the formation for display for each formation you wish to show. However, looking at the photo work that the above has done, his might be better. However, if Jayron32 would make each position it's own circles, I could modify the template to make the markings larger as well as use these images, and then no one would have to make custom images if they wanted to show a new formation. Also, it would provide a uniform look to the formation display, since currently the Formation (American football) has different graphics. So, let me know if this sounds like an option. Lastly, when uploading images you created, it's better to upload them to Commons, not Wikipedia. -- MECU ≈ talk 18:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I know almost nothing about American football but was intrigued by accounts of the Fiesta Bowl. Most of the newspaper sites I checked on-line explained some of the trick plays in words, but a novice could not understand them. Finally one of the many Wiki links showed a diagram of another trick play. I followed Wiki from there and like Jayron32's graphics under Formation -- only wish I had found the Formation article sooner (no, not a Oklahoma pun). Just my 2¢. Oh, and the visuals are helpful for use with non-English speakers. 69.150.73.155 14:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

More cleanup of the Formation (American football) article
I cleaned up the images some more, formatting the captions in the "wiki" way, and cleaned up the writing some. Let me know what you think. Feel free to clean up the writing some more too. --Jayron32 05:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks great, Jayron. Jcam 12:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Just saw this as a new project on the directory. I noticed that you don't have any templates just yet, which is too bad. I hope that you find American football and User WP American football at least decent first attempts at such. I also wanted to ask you whether you would have any interest in engaging in assessments as per Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment. It is some work, but it also allows you to keep track of any changes made in articles in the scope of your project and gives you an idea which articles are where in terms of existing quality. It also could help in determining which would benefit most from being worked on. Yes, I am a shill for the Version 1.0 people, but I am such of my own free will. If you have any interest in engaging in asessments, please feel free to contact me and I can try to help you a little in setting them up. Good luck with the project in any event. Badbilltucker 16:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * THANKS. Looks great.  I will add the templates to the main project page.  --Jayron 32  22:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

General comment
First, let me say that this comment should not be taken as an insult. I'm not pointing a finger at any individual or group for this problem. That being said, I use Wikipedia all the time. Of all the articles I visit, the worst ones are usually with regard to sports. Since I watch professional basketball and football the most, these are the ones I notice the most. It's obviously a giant undertaking to attempt to remove all the POV comments from the sports articles, but I just thought I would point out that many of the NFL and NBA bios as well other articles regarding these sports contain comments so POV that they're not only unencyclopedic but potentially misleading and erroneous.

I just edited the linebacker article which contained the blatantly POV statement that middle linebackers are usually the best player on the team. Trouble like this seems to be in way too many sports articles. Sorry I can't be constructive enough to actually offer a solution or help out more as no one likes a "complainer". Yet, there is my compaint. Chicken Wing 08:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Your complaint is valid; no one will hold it against you. No, that's certainly a problem on Wikipedia: articles with controversial topics that people don't watch a lot tend to, well, stink. Patstuarttalk 11:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Avion Black
I was looking over Category:Candidates for speedy deletion when I found a very short stub article about Avion Black. A quick Google search shows he plays (or at least did at some point) for the Minnesota Vikings. I am not certain about his notability, however, which is why the article was nominated for deletion. If anyone could expand this article, that would be great. On the other hand, if it can be decided that this is a non-notable player, than the article can be deleted. Thanks. —Larry V (talk &#124; contribs) 05:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Article tagging
Once I noticed your WikiProject, I: Hope I was helpful :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Gave you a category (Category:WikiProject American football)
 * Tagged all article pages with
 * Did cleanup or tagging tasks where necessary
 * Edited to include all articles in Category:WikiProject American football articles

NFL Draft Pages
I've noticed the NFL Draft pages are often inconsistent. While most years had 12 (or even 17) Rounds of the Draft and now I believe it's Seven, many of the draft pages are 1st round only, or all 12 (or even 17) rounds poorly formatted. I've been working on several off line and have recently joined this project so I've started to work on a more detailed version at User:Slysplace/nfl draft template. Please remember it's a work in progress and for the sake of Consistency all input is appreciated at User talk:Slysplace/nfl draft template. Please note I've also included a sandbox area where I am working on 1 draft at a time, but what you see may not necessarily be what I have off line. &#91;&#91;User:Slysplace a Gnome at work]] 02:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've successfully updated all NFL Draft Pages (1938 - 1999) to the same style as the featured articles of the NFL Draft (2003,2004,2005 etc...) Personally I like the 2002 style thats very similar but Sortable and if no objections I will update all of the existing wikitables to be sortable. I'm leary of touching those feature articles without a general concensus of approval. Also I propose a replacement of the succession box with the Template. Iv'e opened discussion here as well as my own draft talk page. Slysplace 23:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

What on earth is this user doing?
Should I revert all these changes? Discussion is at the College Football WikiProject. Thanks! Johntex\talk 01:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Yet more player stub types
The offensive linemen stub type is very large, and needs to be split. This could be done by position, or by "era" (that springs to mind, at least). Please see this proposal. Alai 17:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Formations
It's becoming a standard on Wikipedia to use the SVG format wherever possible. If we're going to be uploading images that display what formations look like, there are going to be requests to convert them to the SVG format. I'll look into this more tomorrow (it's terribly late and I need some sleep) and I'll leave another comment here to let everyone know what's acceptable and all that. Wlmaltby3 – talk/contribs 07:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

suitable for article?
is this suitable for an article? --Fredrick day 22:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

In your scope?
My brother happened across the article Steagles; it seems a little fishy to me (like hoax maybe), so I thought I would drop your project a line to see if this was a real time or just someone trying to pull a fast one on Wikipedia's servers. Also, if this is/was a real team, would ya'll add the correct wikiproject templates to the talk page? Thanks in advance. TomStar81 (Talk) 02:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

---Didn't know where to put this, but you can't say that the play "inspired" the other plays listed, that would assume all players and staff on the field of one team had the original in mind. The article reads "similar plays" in the heading, but the wording on some of the individual explainations is not accurate. -Anon$

Diagrams - please verify
Can someone take a look at Image:American football Gaps and holes.svg that I made for American_football_plays? I made it simply from the text-based diagram that was in the article. If this looks good, then I can redo some of the other diagrams as SVG ones. -- Big ΔT 17:44, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's good, but where's 8 9 and 0? I've never heard of a "D-gap" though, though that could just be my ignorance. It might be better to separate the O and D terms, so that the D can then include alignment (0 1 2 2i 3 4 4i 5 6 6i 7, etc). Also, this isn't a "standard", just a custom. Some teams do it L54321012345R and other ways are possible, though this way is probably the most common. also, the WRs are too close, and aren't really needed for gap information. You would then need to put in LB/DBs to balance them. Perhaps the green squares could be moved on the offensive side of the line... that is, below where the blue circles for the line are? Might make it more clear then too. Just trying to add some helpful ideas, I think it's good overall. MECU ≈ talk 22:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Moving / renaming NFL Draft
I have posted the following comment in User talk:Koavf as I can not find justification of this users move of an entire series of list style pages.

I see you have moved all of the NFL Draft pages to National Football League Draft (moved 1998 NFL Draft to 1998 National Football League Draft: Full name). I can not locate discussion to justify this move of an entire series, however I can say that after countless hours of  personally repairing the series of pages full of redirects you have just created several more. I have edited the NFL Draft Template accordingly however now the task of cleaning up  several if not all of the NFL Draft pages, Player pages, and NFL Articles which linked to these Draft Pages remains and will not be easily edited by a single template. Can you please cite discussion that warranted this move or justifies it? If so, my apologies, if not I encourage you to revert the moves or help with the massive endeavor required in the cleanup of these redirects. Slysplace |  talk  21:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Am I overly concerned about the amount of possible redirect's? Should these moves be undone or the task of cleanup commence? Slysplace |  talk  21:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Brief rejoinder Here is what I posted on Slyspace's talk:
 * "[I] moved them in accordance with similar examples (e.g. United Nations Security Council, not UN Security Council or UNSC.) If the main article is at "National Football League" then I figured all such articles containing "NFL" in the title should be consistently moved with the main title's name. Exceptions include NFL Blitz, for instance, whose name is just that. As for the NFL draft redirects, I sincerely apologize for the hassle. I personally looked at the "What links here" for every move, and fixed several hundred double redirects. I found several of the NFL draft redirects after the fact, when I accidentally looked at "What links here" for the article NFL Draft itself. Somehow, these did not show up after I initially moved them..."
 * I absolutely agree that double redirects are a hassle and should be avoided, so I went about doing so to the best of my ability. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to be of assistance. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 23:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've found two simple fixes so far to ease my concerns of the multiple redirects, 1st I edited the NFL Draft Template which removed 67 redirects from every page in the series, 2nd I've edited the Player Infobx template, which should resolve about 70% of the redirects on player pages (specifically & obviously 100% of the player info boxes). Now all that remains are redirects in the opening article statements, and from what I've seen the minor majority of player pages mention their draft specifically within the article. But there will still be some redirects out there to clean up. Slysplace  |  talk  21:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * it appears a secondary edit to the template was also required and is now Fixed. Slysplace  |  talk  23:33, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And yet one more template --- The draft stub template- FIXED ... might as well live with the move tat this point. Slysplace  |  talk  01:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I may have been premature on my acceptance of the page moves to 'full names by User:Koavf, I believe I've cleaned up the entire NFL drafts series but I find every edit I make reveals another 100 required, the NFL Seasons Series may be now in worse shape as they link to several AFC or NFC pages which are also affected. I've so far edited 7 templates because of these page moves, and manually edited several pages but this is more than a one man task and obviously to late to revert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slysplace (talk • contribs) 02:59, 4 July 2007

I've only just now found out about all these moves by Koavf, and I have to say, the moves concerning the NFL articles have been horrible. The draft is almost always referred to as the NFL Draft and not the National Football League draft. The most common name should be used, regardless if it is the most proper or not. China is named so, yet its official name is the People's Republic of China. I know this is a little different in terms of abreviations, yet the same logic applies. NFL Draft, NFL Playoffs, NFL-AFL merger are all the most used phrases for each topic, not National Football League Playoffs, etc, etc. The same argument applies to the NBA articles, but since this is the football WikiProject, I won't argue much for that here. Pepsidrinka 18:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC).


 * I believe the cleanup is complete espcially with regards to those edits I tried eraly on to resolve the redirects. All tempaltes have been either reverted or re-edited to the original format. The entire NFL Draft and NFL Season series has been cleaned up and re edited to the original NFL style it was previously. Hopefully I did not miss any of the articles I previously attempted to edit to accommodate the move.  Slysplace  |  talk  01:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

National Indoor Football League
This article is being heavily editwarred over, with vague claims of it being defunct or fraudulent or the like being thrown around. I've knocked it back and tidied it up, but I know next to nothing about the subject. Could someone who understands this sort of thing look into it? Thanks. Shimgray | talk | 21:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello
I'm joining. I am going to spend sometime cleaning up the format and layout of the homepage, if anyone has anythoughts or doesn't like something, just comment here and we'll get it worked out! Jmfangio 07:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation names?
Is there a good reason for putting "(American football)" after every single article in Category:American football positions? While "Center" obviously needs disambiguating (just about every sport has it), the majority of the positions in American football are unique to American football and don't need to be disambiguated. We don't use parenthetical names when we don't have to. For example, Frank Beamer is just Frank Beamer, not Frank Beamer (American football). There's nothing wrong with a redirect from the disambiguation name since it could stop someone from accidentally creating an article on the subject not realizing that it already exists ... but the main article long snapper ought to be named long snapper. Am I missing something? -- B 20:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

 * 25 August Shore Bulldogs ( PROD by User:Chick Bowen; "a semi professional football team ... members of the AAA-rated GSFL (Garden State Football League)." ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceyockey (talk • contribs) 00:47, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Variations
It would be nice to put a section about other variations of American football such as Arena, six-man, etc. or at least links to other pages about them Biglu30 21:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Greg Biekert
I found Greg Biekert on the uncategorized page and it looks like there are several past versions which had proper categories and a proper looking article and then there some vandalism as well in past versions. I'm not sure what all fits, so if someone would like to take a look at it, be my guest. DandyDan2007 12:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

CFD notice
See related discussion on a category here. heqs ·:. 18:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion on use of logos
Please see Wikipedia talk:Non-free content and contribute to the discussion, if you wish. Best, Johntex\talk 21:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed recategorisation of team season articles
I propose a change to the categorisation of the American football team season articles. Currently we have the following hierarchy:

Category:Sports history of the United States by team
 * Category:1960 American Football League season by team
 * 1960 Dallas Texans season
 * 1960 Oakland Raiders season
 * etc
 * Category:1961 American Football League season by team
 * 1961 New York Titans season
 * 1961 Buffalo Bills season
 * etc

I propose that this be changed to (redlinks indicate new categories):

Category:Sports history of the United States by team
 * Category:American Football League seasons by team
 * Category:1960 American Football League season by team
 * 1960 Dallas Texans season
 * 1960 Oakland Raiders season
 * etc
 * Category:1961 American Football League season by team
 * 1961 New York Titans season
 * 1961 Buffalo Bills season
 * etc

We also currently have:

Category:Sports history of the United States by team
 * 1956 Chicago Bears season
 * 1957 Chicago Bears season
 * 1958 Chicago Bears season
 * etc
 * 2000 Green Bay Packers season
 * 2001 Green Bay Packers season
 * 2002 Green Bay Packers season
 * etc

which I propose be changed to:

Category:Sports history of the United States by team
 * Category:Chicago Bears seasons
 * 1956 Chicago Bears season
 * 1957 Chicago Bears season
 * 1958 Chicago Bears season
 * etc
 * Category:Green Bay Packers seasons
 * 2000 Green Bay Packers season
 * 2001 Green Bay Packers season
 * 2002 Green Bay Packers season
 * etc

Any objections? I think these are fairly sensible, straightforward and uncontroversial changes and normally I would just be bold and go ahead and make then, but it affects a lot of articles, so I thought I'd ask first. DH85868993 (talk) 07:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * In the absence of any objections, I went ahead and did it. DH85868993 (talk) 12:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.
To whoever added BAFL (British American Football League) to WP:AMF :) . Man from the Ministry (talk) 17:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Single-wing formation article requests input
I have expanded this article as far as I can. I would like help to improve the quality of this page. Thanks.Bill Spencer (talk) 14:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you please place a link here for ease of assesing? Thanks so much! On a different note I posted a lot of disscussions threads on my page and I would love if anyone would like to debate the things that I have posted? Thanks!Historybuffc13 (talk) 23:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about forgetting to link the article. I was looking for editors for Single-wing formation. Bill Spencer (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

All American Football League players
This non-notable league which is hardly a blip on the radar of football fans, is supposed to start sometime this spring. Although I can buy that the league and its teams meet notability requirements, what about individual players, such as Davin Dennis? I'm considering listing him for AfD. Corvus cornix talk  02:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Proposed semi-pro football project
There is currently a proposed project at WikiProject Council/Proposals to focus on those articles which specifically deal with content related to semi-pro football leagues and teams. Anyone interested in working in such a group should indicate their interest there. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Three-and-out
Can somebody from this project please put this stub on their watchlist. Someone who isn't satisfied with a mere one article for their film is over-writing it with content unrelated to American Football. Thanks. Bradley0110 (talk) 16:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The same article is at Three and Out, hopefully they'll be happy with just one article. May need to do more disambiguation stuff with this though. MECU ≈ talk 00:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Notability discussion invitation
The WikiProject College football project is having a discussion of college football player notability in reference to professional football leagues. All members of your project are invited to join in on the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Ken Hall
Would anyone here be willing to tackle (no pun intended) this article? I was in contact with the article's creator but I can't seem to find the time to devote to cleaning this up. It basically just needs citation and a little cleanup of the prose. He is supposedly statistically the greatest high school football player of all time, so I assume that the citations should be relatively easy to come by. Thanks.  howcheng  {chat} 22:31, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 298 articles are assigned to this project, of which 93, or 31.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:



If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Invitation to notability discussion
WP:CFB invites all interested Wikipedians to participate in the general player notability discussion going on right now. The question at hand is, "what kind of guidelines can be set up to help clarify notability of active college football players?"--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:NFCC
Following the nomination of the Nashville sound as a Featured article candidate, the uniforms have been changed to a GFDL compatiable format (Nashville_Sounds). I think this innovation should be adopted by this project, as the current use of non-free content for uniforms is a significant bar to any team artilces being rated good, or featured standard Fasach Nua (talk) 10:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

AFD Discussion
There is a WP:AFD discussion at Articles for deletion/Walter J. West that is related to American football. Editors in your project may wish to participate.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

There are two more AFD's which might interest the members of this project; Chattahoochee Valley Vipers and AIFL Ghostchasers. Thanks. Patken4 (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Moving football player articles
Please see 's contributions. Is there a consensus to move these articles? Corvus cornix talk  02:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine. If nobody cares, then so be it.   Corvus cornix  talk  04:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Large number of AfD's in progress
There are (at present count) 58 pages up for deleletion in AfD Discussions at the College Football Project. Since your project is listed as a related project, your project members may wish to participate. Please review Articles & Pages being considered for deletion immediately.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/2002 Mountain West Football Season
Hello,

User:Stifle is attempting to set the precedent that college football conference season articles should be deleted as unencyclopedic. Your comments would be appreciated at Articles for deletion/2002 Mountain West Football Season.

Thank you. SashaNein (talk) 15:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

All inclusive infobox
I have created an infobox for active American football players, that is inclusive of all the major football leagues. It includes entry and debut information on af2, Arena Football League, National Football League, oh, and the Canadian Football League. As well, it contains draft information for the NFL and CFL. It also includes a place to list the players high school, which then has a place for awards, and highlights. Then the college section is the same as before, except it has it's own highlights and awards section. As does the professional section (originally the default section). It also includes six stat labels for the AFL, NFL, CFL and af2, in alphabetical order. As well as, an expanded external stats link section, to decrease the number of links in the external section. Not to mention the external links section is placed in alphabetical order, for the most part, not to mention a neatly organized hour glass shape, which was mostly by luck.  Cra sh  Underride  18:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's at Template:Infobox American football active.  Cra sh  Underride  19:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Naming
I was doing sports trading card articles and I had a question about what to properly name the sections so it would be suitable for worldwide readers. For football cards I have tried naming the sections just 'Football' but I have also tried Football(American). I did this to differentiate between soccer cards which I happened to title Football(Association). So I was wondering if it would be best to use 1. Football(American)/Football(Association) 2. Football/Soccer 3. American Football/Association Football or some other combination. Any suggestions? Libro0 (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Friendly Notice of an Article for Deletion
The article Paul LaVinn is being considered for deletion. You may participate in the discussion at Articles for deletion/Paul LaVinn.

This notice is intended to make editors aware of the discussion and to help make Wikipedia a better place, not to influence the discussion in question in any way. Please notify the discussion group that you came to the group from this notice. If you feel this notice is a violation of Canvassing please let the posting editor know.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Major Notability Discussion
ATTENTION WP:ATHLETE is being re-written. There is a very big discussion here. The re-writing is focusing mainly on amateur athletes. You may well wish to participate.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

American football positions
I think that on the article American football positions it should explain about the Athlete position, namely in high school football, where you have one player play, say Quarterback and Cornerback.  Cra sh  Underride  20:53, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on use of team colors in sports infoboxes
Please stop by and voice your opinion in the ongoing discussion on the use of team colors in sports infoboxes. -- Gman 124 talk 14:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation by league or position
Hey guys,

Let's say we have three players all named Michael Johnson. One has played mostly offensive lineman, one has played mostly defensive lineman, and one has played mostly defensive back. Also, these three same players, one has played mostly in the National Football League, one has played mostly in the Canadian Football League, and one has played mostly in the Arena Football League.

I think it makes more sense to disambiguate the three players by the league in which they spent most of their careers instead of the position they played most of the career. My reasoning is that a difference in league is a greater distinction then a difference in position. Thus, the distinction between the players will be better recognizable, especially by non-football people who are not that familiar with positions.

I'm sorry if this was brought up somewhere else and discussed already. But I was unable to find this sort of discussion. Thanks for your input, -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 03:43, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the problem is if a player has mostly played in a particular league. When it comes to sport bios, the convention seems to be to disambiguate by year of birth - as a random exmaple, see David_Bishop_(disambiguation) to see what I mean. Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  09:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Disambiguating by year of birth is a bad idea especially if they lived in the same era. It assumes readers will know the birthday of the person he or she wants to read about. What's important is that the disambiguation be something distinct, like a league. The David_Bishop_(disambiguation) scheme is not the greatest, but it doesn't look like they played in different leagues so I don't know if there were better ways to disambiguate. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 12:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Recent Edit to Women's football team page Tennessee Valley Tigers
I'm not on this project, but I have an inquiry. The Tennessee Valley Tigers was recently edited to remove columns with game times from the 2009 schedule table. Is this part of this project? Is Wiki moving towards a standardized format? I have edited the sports table to again include game times as well as game themes. I don't want to step on toes, but I feel that that is pertinent information that needs to be in the table. Also, the preseason game was removed from the table. I would just like to know why those items were removed if they were done as part of the American Football WikiProject. Thank you for your time. CTG —Preceding unsigned comment added by CrmsnTydGrl (talk • contribs) 22:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If these season articles are anything to go by, it seems adding kickoff times is the standard, at least for American football teams (it seems soccer team pages don't have kickoff times on them). Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  09:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

AFD discussion
There is AFD discussion at Articles for deletion/UFL New York/Hartford that this related to American football. Add your comments to the discussion if you want to participate. Patken4 (talk) 20:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Hall of Famers in each Super Bowl
In the infobox for each World Series we've added a section for future Hall of Famers who participated. For example, in 1911 World Series it lists:
 * Athletics: Connie Mack (mgr.), Frank Baker, Chief Bender, Eddie Collins, Eddie Plank. Giants: John McGraw (mgr.), Rube Marquard, Christy Mathewson.

I don't have the time to do it, but I hope that someone in this Project can take it upon themselves to do the same thing for the Super Bowl infoboxes. Kingturtle (talk) 17:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Tons of new stubs
There are a lot of one-sentence stubs being created today due to the 2009 draft. There should be stub tags and unsourced tags added to all those which are appropriate, or they need to be expanded. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed change to WP:ATHLETE
There is a proposed change to WP:ATHLETE found here. Interested individuals are invited to comment.  Grsz 11  17:37, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Current sport
I've started a discussion on the guidelines of Template:Current sport and their application here, for those who are interested. --Conti|✉ 15:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Question regarding Most Consecutive Starts by a quarterback (NFL)
An interesting discussion has taken place on the article for Most Consecutive Starts by a quarterback (NFL). As you may be aware, the current record holder is Brett Favre. He has started every single game since 1992, up through and including the last game of last season. At the end of last season he retired. When I viewed this page the record was listed as 1992-2008 instead of 1992-Present. I made the modification and it has pingponged back and forth. What is the reasonable resolution of this issue?

Official NFL statistics (and common sense) indicate that the record is considered active until a player misses the first game (since at any time he could come back and continue his active streak). Generally, this is not an issue that has too much importantance, but Favre has signaled a willingness to return to football next season (thus never missing a game which would keep the record in tact). He has even asked to be removed from the "retired" list and listed, instead, as a free agent. I have cited records (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gs_active.htm) which prove my point that the NFL considers this record "Active" and therefore the record should be listed as "Present", but people with differing opinions (but no citations) keep changing the article and requested that it be locked yesterday (which it was). What to do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanrworrell (talk • contribs) 06:49, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 22:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Football disambiguation
Requesting comments at Talk:Football for a proposed rework of Football. Regards, jnestorius(talk) 12:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Notability question
Hi, I work for the Articles for Creation group here at Wikipedia, helping IP users create articles. In that regard I stumbled upon Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Alex Tanney and well I wonder if he's notable enough for an article to be created, I figured I'd ask the people who'd know the best, this project. Is he notable enough for an article? MPJ-DK (talk) 09:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The most relevant guideline for sportsmen is WP:ATHLETE, and he fails this criterion as he hasn't yet played at a professional level (NCAA is stricly amateur). However, if there enough published sources out there which provide more than a passing mention of him (in other words, match reports wouldn't be enough), he would pass Wikipedia's general notability guidelines. This story in particular which details his MWC honours and records certainly seems to establish his notability. So my personal opinion is yes, this player IS notable enough.  Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  09:50, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Are there enough articles on this subject to justify an Outline of American football?
Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

The Transhumanist 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: See Wikipedia's collection of outlines at WP:OOK.

Bobby Dodd
I posted these things on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football but I haven't any anyone as much as acknowledge my existence there. Anyway, a few things:
 * 1) I added to Bobby Dodd's article. I managed to fill in most of the fields, but he was nominated to the College Football Hall of Fame twice (as a player (1959) and as a coach (1993)). Is there any way to represent that in the infobox?
 * 2) I nominated that article for Good Article. Any help in improving it or reviewing it would be appreciated. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation
As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

American football at the 1932 Summer Olympics
This is obviously not a traditional Olympic sport, however, please stop by if you are interested in helping the article make it to DYK: American football at the 1932 Summer Olympics. Thanks! Location (talk) 17:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The American Football Glossary
Well I'm new here and not too sure what I'm doing just yet. One thing that's bugging me though is the fact that the football glossary says "also quarterback rating" in the definition for "passer rating." This is incorrect and it is clearly stated in each year's "NFL Record & Fact Book" on the page where the rating formula is explained. As it states in there, a "qb rating" would have to take into account many intangible things like leadership and playcalling. A passer rating doesn't rate a QB, it rates a passer. Any player who makes even just one pass attempt in a game has a passer rating, despite the position they play. OK, sorry for ranting. Just a big pet peeve of mine. Once I figure out how to work all this, I'll go change it if that's ok. -- Shig.Frag 15:27, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * While the official name may be "passer rating", the number is almost always referred to as "quarterback rating" by commentators. Saying "sometimes called quarterback rating" instead of just "also qb rating" may be an improvement; just deleting the clarification is not. Rvcx (talk) 17:17, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Foo (American football) to Foo (gridiron football)
has undertaken a large number of moves of articles with the (American football) disambiguation. I just unwound the move of Penalty (American football) to Penalty (gridiron football). Because the moves were project-wide, I think a poll here to gauge consensus is appropriate. Is there support for these moves, or should the be undone? I'm guessing the latter, since the project is the American football project. —C.Fred (talk) 16:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There was discussion of this over two years ago at Talk:American_football, and the eventual consensus (as seen in the state of the articles ever since) was in favor of "American Football". All evidence suggests that "gridiron football" is only in common use in Australia and New Zealand (I've never heard it called that in the UK or Europe), and that the obscure specificity of the term would be horribly confusing to the vast majority of the audience for articles about the sport. Such a change would be similar to turning all the "association football" articles into "soccer" articles—i.e. putting the terminology used in one country where a sport is a niche interest ahead of the terminology used around the world and in places where the sport is a national pastime. Rvcx (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It's only ever called American football in the UK, and pretty much the whole of Europe too. I would definitely oppose using the term 'gridiron' for disambiguation purposes. Bettia   (talk)  17:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * What the other 3 people have said...no point in rehashing it. However, if consensus runs the other direction, I'd be happy to support that action too. If you have an argument for it, let's hear it. — BQZip01 —  talk 18:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Globalization is THE reason why I was led to change it to "gridiron" from American. Generally, things in the USA are called "American." But this form of football, with variations in each country, is found in Canada, Australia, and a number of other countries. In a way, American can refer to Canadian also because it is in North American, but with these articles referring to places like Australia too, I felt it needed a more universal-sounding term.

The real reason for disambiguating is to distinguish it from association football, which is best known simply as "football" in Europe, and as "soccer" in places where American/gridiron football is popular (particularly USA). Rather than actually voting, we should discuss here reasons why it should be one way or the other. It would be nice to hear from people in all these places to get their points-of-view. Hellno2 (talk) 21:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * "American football" disambiguates even better than "gridiron football". More to the point, one editor's dislike for the term "American" does not trump common usage and a mountain of reliable sources. We've already heard from Americans and Canadians (by far the biggest audience for all these articles), and from Brits and Europeans. In all those cases "gridiron football" is at best a marginal term, and at worst completely unknown. Whether or not there should be a "better" term for American football is irrelevant; we document reality as it currently is. WP is not the place to advocate for global changes in terminology. See, e.g., Linux (versus GNU/Linux) and Australian rules football (versus Victorian football). Rvcx (talk) 07:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hellno2, I'm not convinced with the globalisation argument here - are you saying that in the future everyone will be referring to this sport as gridiron? If so, that's just crystalballing. As far as I am aware, the only place where the word 'gridiron' has any official usage is Australia - all other places, such as Britain, Europe, New Zealand, Japan and Israel. Google also shows that American Football is the most commonly used term, with almost 15 million hits compared to 3.4 million hits for gridiron. Bettia   (talk)  08:36, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * And almost all those "gridiron" appearances describe the field, not the game. Google finds less than 40,000 hits for "gridiron football" —this is 0.27% of the number of sources for "American football". Rvcx (talk) 09:39, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Trivia Question
I wonder which 2 non-divisional NFL teams have the current longest streak of playing each other in consecutive years? I would guess its New England and Indianapolis. Juve2000 (talk) 06:14, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd probably want WP:NFL, as this project deals with other leagues. Please bear in mind that this isn't a forum for asking trivial questions though - unless this query has something to do with a specific article, I wouldn't bother trying there. Your best bet would be Reference desk/Entertainment.  Bettia (talk) 10:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 02:32, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Listing all of the unreferenced biographies of living people Cody Hodges
Cody Hodges, a member of Texas Tech Red Raiders football is an unreferenced Biography of living people, so it will probably be deleted if it is not referenced. As I am not a football fan, I have no interest in this subject. Could someone please reference it? Thank you.

If you don't already have Cleanup listings,  Cleanup listings is a bot which collects all tagged unreferenced biographies of living people, plus other lists onto one page in your project.
 * List of cleanup articles for your project

It is very easy to add to your project: simply add a template to a page of your project! Instructions

A list of examples is here

Okip (formerly Ikip) 04:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Depopulating Category:College football coaches
Jrcla2 has been removing Category:College football coaches from all articles on college coaches, including coaches that have no other subcategory. This has resulted in many coaches, such as Bruce Young, having only a stub category and a living people category. Opinions would be appreciated at Category talk:College football coaches. If there is a better talk page for notification on a discussion on this, please let me know. Thanks, --BaronLarf 09:19, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

merge proposal of Arena Football League (1987-2008) and Arena Football League (2010)
Because of the news that Arena Football 1 has decided rename as Arena Football League, af1 was moved to Arena Football League (2010) page and arena football league page to Arena Football League (1987-2008). They have been nominated to merge together. Since this project is about everything football, just thought to put a message here. please discuss at this page Gman 124 talk 20:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability
There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:17, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Birmingham Americans
Well, that was an exciting ride. After finding Birmingham Americans a PROD-tagged stub on April 5, I was able to significantly expand it and get a fact from the article featured at DYK on April 15. After more work and a successful peer review, I nominated the article as a Good Article candidate on April 28. I'm happy to report that as of May 5, Birmingham Americans is listed as a GA. Most of the rest of the World Football League articles are stubs, unreferenced blocks of text, or redirects so any help in expanding or improving these articles would be appreciated. - Dravecky (talk) 19:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The 1975 World Football League Birmingham Vulcans who replaced the '74 Americans were NOT named as league champions by the WFL office. On October 22, 1975 the World Football League simply folded their operations and NO team was named league champions and NO one was ever named as league MVP. The WFL Folded and the league was simply out of business. This information is clearly stated on the World Football League Web site and the Birmingham Americans/Vulcans Tribute site makes no mention of the Vulcans being named league champs. Please correct your Birmingham Vulcans article. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.220.233.38 (talk) 15:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Several reliable news sources, both contemporary and modern, make this assertion. (I can't speak for what a WFL fan site might claim.) Most are behind paywalls bit this recent article from the Wall Street Journal states, "Despite these dire financial straits, the WFL tried to make another run at the NFL's throne in 1975, but its owners ran out of money midseason. The league folded, and the Birmingham Vulcans, owners of a 9-3 record, won the championship by default." - Dravecky (talk) 22:39, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well they're wrong. If having the best win-loss record at the time the league folded makes you the league champion, so be it. As far as the World Football League office naming a league champion it didn't happen. Trust me! You've named one source and when did the Wall Street Journal become a expert on sports or dead football leagues. Where did they get there information. It has never been printed in the Birmingham News. It's all an "Urban Legend." The Birmingham Americans/Vulcans Tribute page said it didn't happen either and they only claim that the Vulcans had the best win-loss record at the time the league folded in October of 1975... which means nothing. How many times has an NFL team had the best win-loss record and not won the Super Bowl? The 1975 WFL did not hold their World Bowl Championship game, so no team can claim the title of WFL league champions in 1975. While the league was discussing shutting down a suggestion was made by an owner to hold a playoff game between the Southern California Sun and the Memphis Southmen with the winner playing the Vulcans in a World Bowl game, but that was shot down and league folded unfortunately without a 1975 league champion, MVP winner, Rookie of the Year, Coach of the Year, etc. It simply died on October 22, 1975 with little press coverage as the Cincinnatti Reds won the World Series later that evening. The league couldn't even die and get front page coverage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.220.233.38 (talk) 14:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

RfC on "Safety" article titles
Hello. I recently opened an RfC on sorting out the titles of the "Safety" articles, both for the position and the scoring play. Since no one has yet responded, I am notifying potentially interested WikiProjects and inviting comment in order to build consensus. Please go here: Talk:Safety_(American_football) to comment. –Grondemar 21:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

International teams and federations
There is discrepency between what links for specific countries on international american football pages, such as IFAF, lead to. Some lead to the national team, so to the top league in the county, and some to the nataional federation. I think this should be changed to be uniform, but I'm not sure to which. BDota (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:09, 4 June 2010 (UTC).
 * Because those links are usually referring to the members themselves, I think they should be linked to the national associations wherever possible rather than the national leagues or teams (which fall under the jurisdiction of the national associations). Of course, there are a few countries (such as Belgium) which don't appear to have a national association - in this case, I would link to the league instead. Bettia  (talk)  09:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and made some changes to EFAF. However, when I looked at similar articles for other sports, such as FIBA Americas and CONCACAF, the countries linked to the national teams, not the federations. BDota (talk) 15:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Request for photographs and images
To help address the many requests for photographs People-photo-bot has moved article talk pages from Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of people and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of sportspeople to Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of American football people if it contains the templates WikiProject College football, NFLproject , American Football League project. Members of this project are invited to address the requests for images listed. Please note that some articles may now have an appropriate photograph and that the need-image flag has simply not been removed, this can also be checked using the Image Existence Checker link on the category page. If a page has been incorrectly moved please inform me on my talk page.--Traveler100 (talk) 18:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Removal of "As player" in infobox
I believe it is time to remove the permenant As player: in the infoboxes. 95 percent (if not more) of the players do not need the "As player" section and we can just add it manually like we currently do for the MLB and NBA infoboxes. Beast from da East (talk) 00:37, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

RFC On Differing Football Nomenclature
Hello, i'm looking for input from the Wikiprojects on all the Football codes so we can get a standardized wording for each brand of the sport. Doc Quintana (talk) 18:50, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

American football articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the American football articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (&diams;) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 00:08, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

American football articles...
Hello, I am a fairly new member to WikiProject American Football and I have some thoughts, observations, suggestions, and ideas for improving American football articles. There are some good articles out there(namely biographical articles and articles about the history of football), but a lot of the articles having to do with the rules, strategy, formations, and positions of football are in need of much work, IMO. The articles in general are mostly on this template:

The problem and solutions as I see it:
 * 1) The template is too large and unwieldy- it defeats the purpose of a template and needs to be shrunk or possibly split.
 * 2) Many of the articles above could be expanded; others are destined to always be stubs and should be merged.
 * 3) Almost all of the articles above are poorly sourced or contain all original material. Cites are nowhere to be found.
 * 4) Most of the articles above should be cleaned up to meet Wikipedia standards.

My plan of action, should I reach consensus is this:
 * 1) Clean up and streamline the template. That should be step one because that will help me(and anyone else who wants to help) keep the task organized. Looking at the top of this talk page, it looks like much work was put into trying to standardize these articles and achieve some sort of consistency, but it was a case of too many people going into too many directions. I tried to make a change to the template an hour ago, but was reverted for being too bold. They were probably right, so I'd like to seek the community's consensus. As I work on articles(step 2), I expect the template to expand and contract some as the articles related to American football concepts are reshaped.
 * 2) Rewriting a number of articles which seem to be entirely original resource or un-cited sources. This time I will include copious citations(I have located several good sources online and have a few offline sources).
 * 3) Clean up categories, merge a few articles, and put a few articles(which are duplicates or not necessary) up for RfA.
 * 4) Clean up any "loose ends" and make sure the American football articles are easily navigable for those who might want to learn about American football and know nothing about it- heck, I know a lot about football and find myself "getting lost" in the articles.

So any thoughts, suggestions, comments are welcome... Thanks, VictorianMutant (talk) 06:55, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks for taking the leadership on this. I started to do this years ago, but lost the energy for it.  If you need any help, I follow orders well, so if you need me to do any specific tasks, let me know and I will do what I can.  Besides the online stuff, I do have some old, out-of-print book sources which may be helpful too.  -- Jayron  32  00:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Template:Squad maintenance
I made Template:Squad maintenance that is intended to facilitate the updating of squad templates (including removing squad templates in former player articles). Please have a look at WT:WikiProject Football for details and decide if it is also useful for this WikiProject. --Leyo 15:25, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

RFC Talk:Football
The question being ask is ''Should football be WP:DAB'd for all codes when the code is first mentioned in the intro? '' Gnevin (talk) 09:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Irish American Football league
Could someone confirm whether the teams in this league are notable enough for their own articles? I just declined the PROD on one of them because I found articles on the others existed suggesting they had passed notability. S.G.(GH) ping! 13:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Joe Moglia
Anyone want to handle his page? Joe Moglia is coach of the Virginia Destroyers of the UFL and before he became coach, he was a CEO of TD Ameritrade and I would personally like to see his football and his business areas separated, but I don't know how at this point. DandyDan2007 (talk) 07:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Discussion on notability of semi-pro football
Hey gang! I'm really active over at College Football project but wanted to post here.

There's a slew of articles (well over 100) surrounding semi-pro football, most of which are unsourced or have no sources other than their team web page, contain no information, have questionable point of view, and otherwise just need to be cleaned out.

That said, I'm not ready to say that all of them should be deleted. Heck, some semi-pro teams (espeically historical ones) could have made major contributions to the sport.

I've also been on the "receiving end" of mass spammed AFDs and don't want to send any more than are presently in AFD discussions. But I think they all need to be looked at and reviewed.

I'm setting up a page at WikiProject American football/Semi-professional football discussion. This will be an informal place for general discussion of the topic as well as a list of articles that need to be reviewed. Naturally, all comments are welcome!--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:39, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Triple option
Would someone please de-jargonize this article? See my note on the talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:57, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Club article infoboxes
I'm new to editing American football articles (but not Wikipedia) and I have recently begun overhauling Germany related articles on the sport. I'm looking for a suitable Infobox for the German club articles but can't find one, they all seem to be league-specific in this sport. I'm currently using Template:Infobox sports team which somewhat fits but is fairly generic. Can somebody please point me in the right direction as to a more suitable Infobox for the German Football League clubs? Thanks, Calistemon (talk) 02:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There's Infobox American football club, which I've used on a few British club pages. Bettia   (talk)  16:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, just what I was looking for, and couldn't find! Calistemon (talk) 22:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:23, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Football in the United States
The usage of Football in the United States is under discussion, see Talk:Football in the United States

65.93.12.101 (talk) 17:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * This is currently a disambiguation page, American football is located at American football in the United States . 65.93.12.101 (talk) 02:58, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Southern Indoor Football League
Hi all,

Some input would be appreciated at Articles for deletion/Southern Indoor Football League on whether the Southern Indoor Football League meets the notability criteria. Thanks, &mdash; Scientizzle 13:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Super Bowl
Portal:Super Bowl has been nominated for deletion. 184.144.166.87 (talk) 06:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Korea national American football team
So, I've been informed I should seek permission to tag articles to your project. Should I tag Korea national American football team with your project banner? 65.93.15.213 (talk) 07:12, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, please do. The scope of this project includes general American football concepts and specific topics that don't have a more focused project of their own, i.e. not covered by NFL, college football, or Arena Football League projects. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:19, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It has been tagged, so someone should probably assess the importance of it. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 03:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Season notability
Hi there,

I stumbled upon 2011 Eastern Kentucky Drillers season while doing new-page patrolling. I'm not an expert on American Football, but it seems to me as if the topic could be very adequately discussed at 2011 UIFL season (as could Canton, Johnstown, Huntington, Northern Kentucky and Saginaw). Should I request a merge and redirect, or is there a clear notability guideline here? --Slashme (talk) 17:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Infoboxes; Height and Weight
FYI -- readers of this page may be interested in a discussion and poll here as to whether a baseball player's height and weight should be reflected in his wp infobox.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Jarrett Lee
Jarrett Lee's article just got restored but is woefully out of date. I hoped someone here might have the time and inclination to fix it up. Thanks! Hobit (talk) 12:53, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Hobit thanks for the heads up here. This one should be managed at WikiProject College football. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:00, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Unreferenced biographies of living people
(Cross-posted at WikiProject NFL) Hi. I recently noticed that American football players are over-represented in backlogs relating to unreferenced biographies of living people (BLP). In particular, the database reports show an almost absurd situation. The percentage of football players in Database reports/Completely unreferenced biographies of living people (oldest) is well over 90% and probably over 95%. In Database reports/Completely unreferenced biographies of living people (newest), it's probably closer to 75% but that's still mind boggling. I'm not sure I understand how this came about but the project should make this a priority. Unreferenced BLPs are against policy and susceptible of being deleted through the Proposed deletion of biographies of living people process. Cheers, Pichpich (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

American high school football underclass POY templates
Template:ESPNRISE Sophomore, Template:ESPNRISE Junior, and Template:Rivals Junior of the Year need to be updated if the award continues to exist.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:18, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The Rivals template is due to be updated once the Rivals 2013 ranking is out, which will usually happen in February. The ESPN teamplates, however, seem to be obsolete, since ESPN does not give out these awards anymore (at least I can't find any information on this). --bender235 (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguating Teams with Specific Teams' Seasons
I am noticing that there are often links to teams instead of a specific team's season. For example, the standings in the 2011 NFL season article link to generic teams (New England Patriots, New York Giants, etc.), instead of to the corresponding season (2011 New England Patriots season, 2011 New York Giants season, etc.). I think that when articles are specifically referring to a team's individual season, maybe the link should direct to that corresponding season specifically. I think the way to start this is by doing so in each individual season. I'd be willing to do a bunch of them (say the 1980s or 1990s seasons); would anyone else like to help? I think it will give a great deal of context to our NFL seasons, as well as direct people to specific seasons instead of just team history. After all (not to sound corny but...) every season is it's own story. Bill shannon (talk) 23:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Free HighBeam accounts
Hello all – free HighBeam 1-year accounts are being given out at HighBeam/Applications. This might come in useful for this WikiProject's devoted editors. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Draft prospects, analysts' opinions
Today, there has been somewhat of an edit war between User:Dkendr and me, regarding the inclusion of draft analysts opinions on Morris Claiborne. The article's lede originally referred to Claiborne as the "top cornerback prospect according to NFL draft analysts" (plus sources), which Dkendr claims is an opinion and therefore does not belong in Wikipedia. There is, of course, still an entire section of draft prospect analyses on Claiborne that Dkendr has not seen as of now. Since it has been fairly common practice to include analysts comments on players in their respective biographies, I'd like to ask the members of this project whether they think this violates some Wikipedia rule (Dkendr has yet to name which one it violates). --bender235 (talk) 19:17, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * This is not an edit war. WP:SOAP is in play.  The article itself could be challenged under WP:Notability.  The "scouting report" cited could constitute original research, i.e. WP:FORUM.  Even objective discussions of opinions as they relate to people (see Mark Mangino) are routinely challened and removed.  The section under "draft prospects for Claiborne," again, do not belong here under WP:SOAP and WP:FORUM.  I think Bender's statement not only proves that my edits are correct application of policy, they call for an AFD discussion for Claiborne's article until such time as he meets the requirements for notability under professional athlete standards as published on that page.  Dkendr (talk) 19:32, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Which policy is it, that you claim to apply here? --bender235 (talk) 19:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there some kind of a reply coming any time soon? I'd still like to know which policies are violated by these draft prospect comments. --bender235 (talk) 10:26, 7 April 2012 (UTC)


 * AFD? Good luck with that. They guy was a conensus All-American cornerback in college and won the Jim Thrope Award. It doesn't matter if he ever even plays a game in the NFL, hes notable.--Yankees10 20:48, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm with Bender on this. I see no problem with it at all.--Yankees10 20:48, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Standardize Won/Loss Colors
Please see Template_talk:Table_cell_templates. --ben_b (talk) 19:40, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

User:IndoorFB63
User:IndoorFB63 has created a number of football bio stubs that I'm not really sure meet notability. They include Donta Abron, Chinedu Achebe, Nakia Jenkins, Greg Hadley, Alli Abrew, Eric Abrams, Gerald Abraham (American football), Toran James, Jonathan Jackson (linebacker), Chrys Chukwuma, Rickey Brady, Chris Bayne, and Jon Blackman. In fact, the only article he created that readily meets notability standards is Mike Crawford (American football) because he played for the Miami Dolphins in a few games his rookie year. I'm not going to nominate any of the aforementioned bios for deletion out of laziness and bigger priorities on Wikipedia, but they seem questionable and I thought I'd at least mention them here in case anyone wants to nominate them. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:26, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Superbowls in year articles.
There is discussion as to whether individual superbowls (other than the first) should be listed in year articles, such as 1967, 1993, 2012. Please see the centralized discussion at WT:YEARS. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:17, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Football stadium
I notice there's no article for gridiron football stadium, since Canadian Football (Seinfeld's Kramer's sport of choice) and American Football have specialized football stadia, this might be a useful article to have. As Canadian and American football stadiums have very similar design concerns, a unified article for both codes would be better than separate articles for each (ie. Canadian football stadium & American football stadium ) though such redirects should exist. 70.49.127.65 (talk) 22:16, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Personal foul
If anyone has any interest in creating Personal foul (gridiron football), it would make a suitable merge destination for Giving him the business.—Bagumba (talk) 21:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what the naming convention is, but the redirect Personal foul (American football) already exists.—Bagumba (talk) 01:13, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:44, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

quarterback terminology
What is the Quarterback referring to when he calls out a jersey number from the linebackers saying he is mic'd ...like 51` mic'd

Rtwr (talk) 00:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It is probably either a play or a route; if it's a linebacker's number, it's likely coincidence. Quarterbacks often change calls at the line of scrimmage, making adjustments to either the receivers' routes or the play altogether. —C.Fred (talk) 01:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

American football protective equipment
American football protective equipment has been proposed to expand to cover Canadian football, see talk:American football protective equipment -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

American football GA nomination/List of NFL champions (1920-1969)
I have nominated American football, quite obviously a top-importance article on this project, for good article status. Additionally, I have nominated List of NFL champions (1920-1969) for featured list status. If any project members are interested in commenting on either, you are more than welcome to join in the discussion and help improve them even more. Thanks.  Toa   Nidhiki05  20:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * List of American football teams in the United Kingdom has also been nominated as a Featured List Candidate - again, any comments will be welcome. ★ Bald Zebra ★ talk 08:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

GA nomination for National Football League
The National Football League article is up for good article status. As a significant article in this WikiProject, any project members are invited to comment on or review the nomination.  Toa   Nidhiki05  01:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Subcategory discussion tenuously related to this WikiProject
There is a discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball that somewhat pertains to this WikiProject. Please weigh in. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 21:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration
This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  18:31, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

John Mackey (American football)
Hello, I happen to work with the NFLPA, and I've posted a request to correct some false information on the article John Mackey (American football). There is false information in the entry now, and I'd like to see if someone else is willing to review and implement my suggested replacement for one of the article's sections. See my explanation on the article's Talk page, and I'm happy to answer any questions one may have. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 21:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This request has been taken care of now, although I'm going to have plenty of corrections to other NFL-related articles upcoming; if you happen across this message and you're interested in helping, come ask me what I'm up to! Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 23:13, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Naming convention
What's up with this project's article naming conventions? Are you going with NFL or National Football league? Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 11:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

2,000-yard club up for featured list
Hello, I have nominated the article 2,000-yard club for featured list status. There has no been much input, however, and it would be much appreciated if members of this WikiProject could provide sound and objective comments and analysis on whether the article meets the featured list criteria. Thanks!  Toa   Nidhiki05  21:09, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

LFL Australia
Legends Football League is tagged under this WikiProject, and members are invited to comment in a discussion at Talk:Legends Football League.  Zappa  O  Mati   00:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bluegrass Warhorses
The following was posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football by someone clearly unaware of the distinction between the two sports. Sir Sputnik (talk) 05:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello football experts! I found this article in which the creator had added some references, but messed up the submit template.  I fixed the template, but I don't know anything about football, so could someone look at it and see if it's ready for the encyclopedia?  Thanks.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 04:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was me. I didn't realize that there were two separate Wikiprojects.  Thanks for moving it, Sir Sputnik. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Harold "Hal" Willard Bradley Sr
Here's another article that may be of interest. This submitter could use a little support. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Anne, this article appears to have been separately created here: Harold Bradley Sr.. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 05:09, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up. I will investigate whether a history merge is needed or not. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 06:56, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

A11FL
Here's another new football article, just created. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 06:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:African-American players of American football
Category:African-American players of American football, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 22:09, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Peer review
I've been smoothing and tweaking the College Football Playoff article for awhile now, and I think it's gotten to be in pretty decent shape. Hopefully not too CRYSTAL. I was hoping somebody could give me some feedback. I'd like to try to get it to GA or even FA this year, perhaps, if that's possible. (It's currently rated Start class.) I've never done this before, so I'm sort of unsure of the next steps for this. Thanks for any help! Woodshed (talk) 19:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game is up for featured article
Hello; I have recently nominated an article tagged by this project, 2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game, for featured article. If anyone is interested in providing an unbiased review, please feel free to do so on the review page. Thanks!  Toa   Nidhiki05  21:39, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Manning football family?
I was wondering if there should be such an article, considering the four Mannings, and articles such as Manning Passing Academy. A navigational root would be good. (and consider it for all sports family dynasties, comparable to our political family dynasties articles) -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 04:58, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Category:Parade High School All-Americans (football) nominated for deletion
Category:Parade High School All-Americans (football) is currently nominated for deletion. If you are interested in contributing to this discussion, please go to Categories for discussion/Log/2013 October 22 and do so. Rikster2 (talk) 17:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Help with Health issues in American football article?
Hello, I'm currently working on behalf of the National Football League Players Association to make some improvements to Wikipedia articles related to their organization, and to football more generally. Because I have a financial COI, I don't make edits myself. Instead, I post on Talk pages and ask for volunteer editors to help out. I'm currently working through Health issues in American football, and have posted some revised language, with proper sourcing, on the Talk page. As of yet, I haven't been able to find an editor to help out with making the changes/providing feedback, however. If someone here has a chance to take a look and, if my edits are acceptable, implement them, I'd sure appreciate it!

Note that I also drafted the George Atallah article mentioned above, so if you have questions there, feel free to reach out about that, too! Cheers, ChrisPond (Talk · COI) 18:03, 28 October 2013 (UTC) ✅! ChrisPond (Talk · COI) 18:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/George Atallah
Dear footballers: Would anyone like to weigh in on this article which has been submitted at Afc? It looks good to me, but I still know nothing about football. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 09:01, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks - it's accepted now. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 07:58, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game up at FAC
Hello, I have recently nominated 2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game, an article tagged by this project, for featured article. This is the second nomination for this article; the first nomination failed in part due to a lack of discussion. All members of this project are invited to comment on the nomination at the nomination page. Thanks,  Toa   Nidhiki05  19:11, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Average weight and height for Football stats
On a good article review I was doing, I was intrigued by this statement in the infobox. "Note: In many cases, Scout and Rivals may conflict in their listings of height and weight. In these cases, an average of the two was taken." This seems to be clear original research and/or synthesis because it takes two reliable sources and performs calculation to arrive at a new number that is not supported by either of the sources. The article in question was Shane Morris, but its been on other pages, and I just wonder why Wikipedia is coming up with new data, or encouraging it, instead of simply picking the latest (or failing that) one of the sources? I don't think Wikipedia should be averaging them to arrive at a new number, and I remember this sort of discussion at Trayvon Martin, where one became the source and not an average, because the demand for accuracy and verifiability. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:55, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Input at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Tip Heard Round the World?
Is this an acceptable neologism already? It seems awfully WP:RECENT, but I thought I'd double-check with y'all: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Tip Heard Round the World. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:19, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

tunnel
The stub Inflatable tunnel has a link to tunnel, which is clearly wrong (first line: "... an underground passageway...", but I can't see anything at Tunnel (disambiguation) referring to the sports context of an entrance way. Should there be something? Is this stub notable? Over to you. Pam  D  09:14, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Just discovered that unlike most stubs I stub-sort, this has been around since 2009 - but obviously not on many people's watchlist, as the advertising spam I've just removed was added n 2011. Pam  D  09:17, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

List of National Football League season receiving yards leaders
Hello, I nominated List of National Football League season receiving yards leaders for featured list a couple of weeks ago and have received little feedback on the nomination. As the article is tagged under this project, I figured I would inform you so that anyone who is interested in commenting can do so. Any and all input is welcome. Thanks,  Toa   Nidhiki05  20:21, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/George Veras
Dear football experts: According to the text in this old abandoned Afc submission, this person should be notable, but I am having trouble finding sources that are independent, likely because I don't know where to look. It will soon be deleted as a stale draft. Should it be kept and improved instead? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 10:06, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Quarterbacks with Super Bowl starts
Hi all, I've left a question at Talk:List_of_quarterbacks_with_multiple_Super_Bowl_starts that's in this project's scope. Thanks, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 03:19, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Ed, thanks for posting. That article is actually in the scope of WikiProject National Football League.  You might get more feedback by posting there instead or as well? Jweiss11 (talk) 04:02, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, alright. Thanks very much! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:15, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Dean Dalton
Dear football experts: Sorry, here's another abandoned Afc article about a football coach. I found ,, and. Is he notable? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 21:41, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Anne Delong, thanks for posting. Dalton's notability is questionable given that he was never a head coach at the college or pro level. Some assistant coaches are certainly notable.  Not sure about Dalton.  On a more general note, you might be better off posting these to WikiProject College football or WikiProject National Football League.  Bio articles for people who coached or played college football or in the NFL are actually not in the scope of WikiProject American football, but rather one or both of those two aforementioned projects. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:59, 8 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Sigh, and I thought I was doing well not to be posting at WikiProject Football. Thanks for your analysis.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 06:04, 8 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Ha, well that's a start! Jweiss11 (talk) 06:27, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Tom Mante
Okay, sorry, I'm back again. This fellow appears to have played for the UFL. Is that good? At which project should I post this? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 21:18, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne, Mante played college football, so his article would certainly be within the scope of WikiProject College football. He also had tryouts with some NFL teams.  Not quite sure if that qualifies the article as within the scope of WikiProject National Football League.  At any rate, there are a lot more eyes on the talk pages of those two projects, than there are on this one. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Darryl Lynn Harris
Hello again football experts. This is another of those old abandoned Afc drafts. Is this player notable enough for an article? The text is promotional, but that can be fixed. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 16:30, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes he passes WP:Athlete since he played in an NFL game. His article should be Darryl Harris (running back) though.--Yankees10 00:20, 8 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, it's in mainspace now. I removed some promotional languages, but the placement of the citations may need adjustment. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 03:12, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

AFD on EFAF Atlantic Cup
There is an Articles For Deletion discussion about the EFAF Atlantic Cup which has been going on for a while at Articles for deletion/EFAF Atlantic Cup. Comments welcome. -- do ncr  am  23:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rico Reese
Notable? --S.G.(GH) ping! 15:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes. He passes WP:Athlete since he appeared in Arena Football League games.--Yankees10 17:44, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Gridiron Developmental Football League
Any thoughts on this article? I'm not convinced that the league is notable, let alone separate articles about the (up to) 41 teams. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:27, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Merging pistol formation with shotgun formation?
I think we've seen with Chip Kelly that they really blend together and are not totally orthogonal choices. I think it's more logical to have a shotgun article, and name all the variants like: 7 yards back with HB on side, 7 yards back with HB and FB/TE on side, 4-5 yards back with HB on side, 4-5 yards back with HB on the side and behind the QB, 4-5 yards back with HB directly behind the QB at about 7-8 yards total depth.

I think we should be defining formations based upon variables rather than the labels that the media gives them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maggie3Wink (talk • contribs) 00:21, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * What we really need is a reliable source that treats the formations as such. If reliable sources treat the shotgun and pistol formations as truly distinct, so should we. – PeeJay 00:32, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

7v7 or 7-on-7 youth football
In looking for information about this topic, I realized there is nothing on Wikipedia about this new craze which is basically like AAU basketball or club soccer. I attended an event in Vegas this past March and there were over 100 teams with the top two HS QBs in the country, Josh Rosen and Ricky Towne, both committing to UCLA and USC respectively. I've never edited on here so I am proposing someone creating the topic. Here's an article below for some information as well.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/8884256/college-football-recruiting-leans-7-7-leagues — Preceding unsigned comment added by Igotchaopn (talk • contribs) 17:23, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject American Football At Wikimania 2014
Are you looking to recruit more contributors to your project? We are offering to design and print physical paper leaflets to be distributed at Wikimania 2014 for all projects that apply. For more information, click the link below. Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 15:07, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject American Football At Wikimania 2014(updated version)
Please note: This is an updated version of a previous post that I made.

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost The deadline for submissions is 1st July 2014 For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 16:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Peer review - possible GA/FA contender?
With football season just around the corner, I wonder if there's any interest in getting the College Football Playoff article formally reviewed up to standards, perhaps to be an FA candidate sometime this fall (or at least GA status before then), given its importance as a topic in the football world. I've been smoothing and tweaking it for awhile now (hopefully not too CRYSTAL), and I think it's gotten to be in pretty decent shape, though it's still rated Start class. I was hoping somebody could give me some feedback.

One area that's important but unaddressed is the history and the old systems — a concise but adequate summary of the BCS-era drama and general teeth-gnashing over the years. User:Dcheagle has begun writing some of that history on this draft page. There are sections from Plus-One system and College football playoff debate that should probably be included, though those articles likely need a makeover.

I've never made a run at GA/FA before, so I'm sort of unsure of the next steps for this. Thanks for any help! Woodshed (talk) 01:14, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I haven't worked on it since April but Ill get back into it and finish up the history section.-- Dcheagle   &bull; talk &bull; contribs 01:33, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Human height and the metric system
Hi. Just seeking the input of informed editors as Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_player. Thanks.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 08:05, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Jim Nelson (American football)
Would someone please fix this article's infobox, the undrafted part? I tried to fix it, but I couldn't. Thanks, Robert4565 (talk) 20:24, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Fixed.--Yankees10 21:05, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Position coach article?
I was wondering if an article for position coaches would be beneficial (just one article, not one for each position). The article would essentially explain the role of position coaches at the pro and college levels, in contrast to coordinators and the head coach. Bms4880 (talk) 17:31, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention
I created Category:American football articles needing expert attention for making Category:National Football League articles needing expert attention a subcategory of it. Category:American football articles needing expert attention will maybe be populated in the future, and might be of interest to your WikiProject. Iceblock (talk) 13:16, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Possibly viable draft
Is User:Garrett Swanson (football) notable? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:48, 11 October 2014 (UTC)


 * There's a Garrett Swanson who currently plays at Fresno State (http://www.gobulldogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/garrett_swanson_810779.html), but I can't find anything about this (alleged) Garrett Swanson at West Texas A&M. See the team's roster from 2011 (the season when Swanson was allegedly an All-American) here: http://www.gobuffsgo.com/roster.aspx?roster=68&path=football.  Even if the article was veritable, the subject, as an NCAA Division II football player, probably would not be notable. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. I've moved it to Draft:Garrett Swanson (football) just in case. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:00, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Requested move at Björn Werner
I have opened a move request at Talk:Björn Werner to move to "Bjoern Werner". Any and all opinions/comments would be appreciated. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 17:14, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Help with NFLPA exec bio
Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone here might be able to take a look at a request on the Talk page of George Atallah's biography. My colleague, Chris, originally posted the request and I'm now taking it up; I should note, I'm working on behalf of the NFLPA and therefore have a conflict of interest, so I won't make any direct edits to the article.

There's two small requests:
 * 1) Some silly vandalism was added to the page and I'd appreciate if an editor here could remove it.
 * 2) There's a proposed short addition to the page regarding Atallah's statement about player rights, following Ray Rice's indefinite suspension.

If anyone here is interested, please can you check out the request and make the changes if they sound ok? Thanks! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 18:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Just pinging this request to say that the vandalism has been removed, but I'd still like for someone to review the potential addition to the page. Let me know if you can help! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 18:25, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * This request has been answered and I'm all set here. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 22:29, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Stats articles that may require trimming or deletion
Came across an NFL Stats draft which led me to check out some other NFL stats pages, and I came across the individual and team records for the NFL. These lists are both overly massive and also hard to read. As Wikipedia is NOTSTATSBOOK, can these articles be split/trimmed? I thought I would get your opinions before doing anything major like nominating them for deletion. Primefac (talk) 21:57, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Primefac, I think you want to repost this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League. These articles fall under the scope of that project, not this one.  The NFL project is more active as well.  Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 22:23, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Will do, thanks! Primefac (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Help with NFL collective bargaining agreement
Hi there, I'm reaching out here to see if someone can help me with resolving the tags on a newly-created article for the National Football League collective bargaining agreement. As I've mentioned here before, I'm working on behalf of the NFLPA. I wrote the CBA article and submitted it to AfC, through which it was reviewed and taken live a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, the editor who took it live felt there were a few issues with the article, specifically not enough links to other articles and an introduction that's too short. As that editor seems to be busy on other projects now, I'm looking for others who can help. Due to my financial COI, I won't edit the article directly and I'm looking for help to review an extended introduction I've written and move it into the article if it looks good. Can anyone here take a look? Thanks! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 19:57, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox LFL team
Template:Infobox LFL team has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Alakzi (talk) 23:19, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Dual-threat quarterback image discussion
Please see Talk:Dual-threat quarterback. This vote/discussion is necessary for the article. Thank you Soulbust (talk) 04:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

NFL History Black Players Paul Robeson
Hi - My wiki-editing history is addition of a song cover, and as someone who knows little about football or the NFL, I would not touch the fine start of this WikiProject. But I do love history/historiography, and know the value of context for students.

Paul Robeson was an enormous figure during the Harlem Renaissance, with a fine intellect and influence 'til he was chewed up and spit out by Jos. McCarthy/HUAC. This brilliant black activist gave Hoover the jitters years before Hoover tried to take down MLK.

I'm hoping someone will consider adding Robeson's name to the earliest NFL Black Players section, hyperlinked to his Wiki page?? (End for Rutgers, played '21 Akron, '22 Milwaukee.) This is just the sort of basic section a student or a fan will click quickly, and (especially black) students should have the opportunity to discover him.

Thanks much for any consideration, Gwenelen (talk) 16:02, 17 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Can you clarify the article where his name is to be added? Bms4880 (talk) 18:27, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much for quick response, Bms! Sheepish here; thought I had linked directly.

As a non-fan I'm unaware of the scope of this project, so can only guess that this sort of very basic page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_American_professional_football is one a student would find quickly. I'm assuming it's the ideal spot, thought I'd best ask the fans and better wiki- builders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwenelen (talk • contribs) 14:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC) Gwenelen (talk) 14:58, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Request for comments regarding UFL notability
There is currently an ongoing discussion regarding whether United Football League players meet the WP:NGRIDIRON criteria for notability. The major issue is whether the UFL should be considered a "top-level" or "professional" league. If you're interested in participating, please visit the notability guidelines' talk page. ~ RobTalk 04:15, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested Move discussion on naming of football articles
There is currently a requested move discussion at Talk:Reception (American football) that is attempting to build a consensus on what disambiguation phrase should be used when necessary for gridiron football articles. This has a relatively broad scope and may involve many articles that fall under the interest of this WikiProject. Please feel free to add your input on what disambiguation phrase should be used. ~ RobTalk 16:58, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Buffalo Bulls (American Football)
Hi there,

OTRS has been contacted to state the kit for Buffalo Bulls (American Football) is incorrect. Can someone more familiar with the relevant infobox coding than me please take a look and fix this please? Many thanks, Mdann52 (talk) 11:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


 * by "kit" I assume you mean this image of the Buffalo Bulls football uniform: File:MAC-Uniform-UB.png? Can you elaborate more on what exactly the message to OTRS said, who sent it, and why this image is now up for deletion?  The most appropriate WikiProject to discuss this topic is WikiProject College football, not this one.  Also, your page move of Buffalo Bulls football was inappropriate and has been reverted.  Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 01:57, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

FA needs some help...
The featured article History of American football is currently at around 160 kb in length. The maximum allowable article size per WP:SIZE is 100 kb. While some bits of information could probably be pared down, most of the article is still surprisingly well written and referenced (despite growing in size by 2/3rds since being promoted to FA status several years ago). The article will need to be brought back to a smaller size, a discussion is underway at Talk:History of American football to decide the best way to handle that. We want to preserve all of the good information there, but the rules require us to split the article up somehow. If anyone is interested in helping decide how to do that, please come by the article talk page where the discussion is currently underway. Thanks! -- Jayron 32 12:18, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

"Football pool"
We have an article at football pool about soccer, but the fantasy sports page is located at Fantasy football (association). There doesn't seem to be a football pool page, unlike Fantasy football (American). Shouldn't there be an American football - football pool article? -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 03:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Betting pool seems to adequately address the general concept. -- Jayron 32 12:08, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

"American football" vs "football"
A fairly new user is insisting on adding "American" to multiple uses of "football" in the American football article,and probably on other articles also. The discussion is at Talk:American football. Any help in solving this issue would be appreciated. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 19:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

YPG
There's a lot of discussion about the dab page at YPG (mostly involving Syria), and while investigating it I found that the abbreviation "ypg" is used in vast numbers of American football articles but neither it nor "Yards per game" is described or defined anywhere in the encyclopedia (so there's nowhere for a dab page entry to point to). I've see it defined in places like http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nfl/yards-per-game.aspx, but it's not in Glossary of American football. It might be useful for someone to define it in that glossary or somewhere else, with a source, and it could then be added to the dab page.

I first posted this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football but had no response. Pam D  14:44, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

XfDs related to high school football
I have nominated a number of articles and a template related to high school football for deletion. Please see the following discussions:


 * Articles for deletion/2014 Northern Michigan Football League season
 * Articles for deletion/2011 Oahu Interscholastic Association Football Season
 * Templates for discussion/Log/2016 January 5

Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

American Football League All-League teams
I've noticed there are articles for the 1960 and 1961 American Football League All-League Teams, but none for the others ('62–'69). There's even a template for the teams. Do we want to finish filling these out? Lizard (talk) 16:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Lizard, I'd post this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League as well. I think more people will see it there.  There's also a WikiProject American Football League, but it's pretty dead there.  It should probably be rolled into the NFL project. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:29, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah so that's where the party is. Thanks, I was wondering why this page was so barren. Lizard (talk) 23:19, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Pro-football-reference.com is, as usual, a great resource for this stuff. See here for the 1962 team, as selected by various selecting agencies (the AFL itself, AP, and UPI).  Similar data is there for every AFL year.  -- Jayron 32 00:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Pop Warner article needs attention
Pop Warner Little Scholars, the redirect target of Pop Warner football, has been a blank page since February 2015 due to a copyvio. Could use some attention if anyone needs a break from SB talking heads..—Bagumba (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll take a whack at it. Should I just start it from scratch? Lizard  (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Whatever you think is best. I dont think anyone can rightfully complain if you do zap it being that it's been sitting there for this long.—Bagumba (talk) 17:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Two articles possibly about the same person
The articles Leroy Moore and Leroy Moore (American football) might be about the same person. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:22, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Unlikely. Leroy Moore (American football) would have been 18 years old if he were the head football coach Leroy Moore at Arkansas Pine Bluff  They're probably different people.  -- Jayron 32 13:50, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Project member Dravecky died a few days ago
died last Saturday, April 23. See his talk page for details.

He is listed as a member of this WikiProject. I will leave it up to his fellow WikiProject participants to decide when it would be appropriate to remove him from the list of active participants. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  20:29, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Category:College Football Hall of Fame balloting has been nominated for discussion
Category:College Football Hall of Fame balloting, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for merging into Category:College Football Hall of Fame. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you.RevelationDirect (talk) 02:20, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

US 50,000 Challenge invite
Hi. The WikiProject United States/The 50,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more states than they might otherwise work on. If there's the interest I will start 1000 State Challenges like The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of states regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for the US and your specialist/home state like WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every state, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any state sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thankyou.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:40, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

List of foreign NFL players
Does anyone else think that List of foreign NFL players is pointless? Lack of sources doesn't help it either. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:24, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Lists need to meet WP:LISTN, namely that they are "discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources".  Otherwise, people would use OR to create endless number of factual lists. This list was started w/ a edit summary of "like List of foreign NBA players".  However, the influx of foreigners in the NBA is frequently written about; not so sure that is the case with the NFL.—Bagumba (talk) 19:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Arena Pro Football
Would someone from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Arena Pro Football? I've done some very basic cleanup, but I'm wondering if this might be a case of WP:TOOSOON. No sources are cited in the article at all, so there's no evidence the league satisfies WP:NORG. All I've been able to find online so far are social media pages and press release kind of stuff like this and this which are not in and of themselves enough to establish Wikipedia notability. I have no doubt the league exists or is going to exist, but simply existing is general not sufficient to make something notable for an article. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:08, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Arena Football League
Dear football experts:

Three questions about Arena Football League:


 * The above article has a lot of references to the pages on League's own website. My understanding is that these should be removed, since they are not independently published information, but I thought I would check with people who regularly edit football articles.


 * There are a lot of references to the leagues fansite. Is this website a magazine which might be a reliable source, or is the material all contributed by random fans?


 * I came across an unreferenced short draft about a player in this league, Draft:Ryan Reid. Are players in the Arena Football League considered generally notable as is the case with the NFL? If not, maybe the draft should be redirected to Saskatchewan Huskies football, where there is mention of him.

I presume that this is not related to the section above.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 17:46, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:07, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Requested template
Hello, I have a requested template that could use a review. The template has not been created yet; that's why I'm asking for its creation. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 18:24, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Help expanding article on Brett Veach
Brett Veach was appointed yesterday as general manager of the Kansas City Chiefs. I came across the newly-created article on him yesterday and helped do some cleanup, but it is still a stub. Your assistance in expanding it will be greatly appreciated – I know nothing about the sport! –FlyingAce✈hello 15:58, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

NFL Owner Net Worth
So the other day I was curious how much each NFL owner was worth and where they ranked among their peers. So I had a free hour so I started making a page in my sandbox. I'm not saying it should be a page, at least yet, but I started putting it together in case anyone else thought it was a good idea. One person suggested adding the information to the current page with a list of all NFL owners, but I'm not sure how well it would fit there. My argument for having it as a separate page cites some pages about the US presidents. There is a page of course that has a list of every US President, but then there is a separate page completely devoted to listing the net worth of every US President. So under that format, it would allow for its own page. I think it is an interesting topic, but I am interested in hearing everyone else's opinion. If you do visit my sandbox to check it out, please keep in mind it is not done and I am very open to suggestions to improve it. Thanks. Zdawg1029 (talk) 17:45, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at NSPORTS
Hello all. In an effort to finally resolve the never-ending and annoying GNG v SSG issue, I've proposed a revision of the NSPORTS introduction. You are all invited to take part in the discussion. Thank you. Jack &#124; talk page 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposed page move of Gridiron football
A move proposal affecting this project has been made at Talk:Gridiron football. The requested new title is North American football. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 09:38, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Running backs issue at WP:ERRORS
If any of you are awake, please do pop into ERRORS. Need your expertise on Featured Lists problem. Thanks. Sounds like it was a great Super Bowl, allegiances aside. Hope you all enjoyed it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:38, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:52, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

RM notification
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Man of the match, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',Geneva,sans-serif"> QEDK ( 後  &#127800;  桜 ) 09:11, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC has been opened that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC:_Specifying_the_code_of_football_at_first_reference_in_team_articles --Trovatore (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Moved to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Specifying_the_code_of_football_at_first_reference_in_team_articles. Apparently it's "not an RFC"; I haven't followed up the link to find out why it's not. --Trovatore (talk) 20:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Ending the system of portals
Hello, there's a proposal to delete all Wikipedia portals. Please see the discussion here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 13:55, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

New pages on NFL draft picks by college team
A large number of recent pages have been created at Category:Lists of National Football League draftees by college football team. These seem reasonable as new pages, but I'm unsure about the page titles here. Any thoughts? power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 05:14, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Spatms recategorising
This isn't my subject at all, but I came across this edit and it looks like User:Spatms has been moving articles out of college football categories, I presume without consensus. Perhaps someone more familiar with this Project's material might want to take a look? Le Deluge (talk) 23:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Developed [Category:College football teams in the United States by state] to match the category already established for college baseball. This category has notable content for every state. spatms (talk) 24:51, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It looks to me like spatms has been creating college football subcategories for the existing categories for American football teams by state. I don't necessarily see a problem with this. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  07:25, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

International Arena Football League
Would someone mind taking a look at this article and assessing it? Its Wikipedia notability based upon WP:NORG seems questionable and this isn't one of the top professional leagues mentioned in WP:NGRIDIRON; that, however, could just be because the league has just started play. FWIW, I also don't think it's necessary to cite a 2+ hour YouTube video simply to support a statement about the league not using "rebound nets", but can't seem to find another source. Perhaps when more games are played, they'll be something is the sports section of one of the team's hometown newspaper which refers to things like the lack of nets. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:05, 21 March 2019 (UTC)


 * NGRIDIRON is more about presumed player coverage for playing in a certain league. While there is some correlation (lots of SigCov for a NGRIDIRON league -> quite a bit of SigCov for a team in league -> probably some coverage of a player on a team in league), low end leagues can still meet GNG as there is no SNG for teams or leagues anymore once it was removed from WP:NCORP. In this case however, the only coverage I have found on the league comes from coverage of the Rio Grande Valley Dorados (2019–), primarily due to the team choosing to call itself a "re-launch" of a much higher level team from a decade ago (and the team could possibly fail WP:SUSTAINED as the main independent non-routine coverage is about the announcement of the new team, WP:NOTNEWS). This project is not very active so there may not be much other input, but I would think about nominating it. I am frankly just tired of dealing with the creator of the article as this is a prime example of the quality of 50–75% of the articles they create (using primary, blogs, or Youtube as the only refs and then screams "But they are REAL" when I AfD, move to draft, or prod them after a WP:BEFORE). Yosemiter (talk) 01:39, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. I wasn't sure if there was a particular notability guideline which applied to sports leagues like this. I tried googling for sources, and did find this, this, this and this, but those have a bit of a routine mention/PR feel to them. It's possible that some Mexican papers have written about this because some of the teams are based out of Mexico, but have no idea how to check that per WP:NEXIST. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

2018–19 NFC Championship Game
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2018–19 NFC Championship Game. AIR<b style="color: green;">corn</b> (talk) 17:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Two month virtual editathon on Women in Sports
WikiProject Women in Red is devoting the next two months (July and August) to a virtual editathon on Women in Sports. Please take this opportunity to write more articles about women in American football who lag far behind men on Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 07:33, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Football vs. "American football"
You are invited to join the discussion on the use of "American football" at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League.—Bagumba (talk) 08:27, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Modify Template:WLAF labelled map to include division names
Hello, I'm working on improving the article on NFL Europe and noticed one of the current maps is terribly deficient. Template:WLAF labelled map includes a list of teams and different colored dots to represent divisions, but doesn't have a key representing the division names. Could somone with knowledge of how the template works add in the division key? <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 22:44, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

List of career achievements by Peyton Manning
Could someone please check the edits done by to List of career achievements by Peyton Manning (which I think is all encompassed by these aggregate deltas). Charlie's edits to other articles are either jokes or downright vandalism (e.g.) but those that weren't reverted by Cluebot appear to have lasted (unnoticed), and those that were obviously give me little confidence in him.

But I don't know anything about sport, so I'd appreciate it if someone who does could check his edits and fix if necessary. Thanks. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 15:18, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Meaning of "field goal attempt"
There appears to be a disagreement between two editors over the usage of the word "attempt" with respect to field goals. It look like it started at David Akers, but then moved to WP:THQ. It's unlikely that this is going to be resolved through any further discussion at the Teahouse so perhaps the members of WP:AMF can help resolve things. I thought about posting this at Talk:David Akers but figured more people would be watching this page and because any change which need to be made would likely affect quite a number of articles. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * A field goal is attempted as long as the kicker kicks the ball, whether the kick is made or missed. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I reverted multiple changes to articles such as this, where the editor insisted that 'attempts' was grammatically and technically incorrect. My view is that substituting the word 'kicks' is neither an improvement nor consistent with the standard terminology. There seems to be some difficulty with English, not limited to the 'attempt'/'kick' issue. 2601:188:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 04:34, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "Attempts" is indeed the correct terminology there. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:54, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I can see how sentences such as "Player X kicked a field goal" and "Player X attempted a field goal" would have completely different meanings; in this example, "kicked" means "made" and "attempted" means "missed". That, however, is not really a grammar issue, but more of picking the correct verb based upon context. You may also even hear "kick the field goal" said before a kick when the result is still unknown, with the verb "kick" actually be used to mean "attempt". Neither of those examples, however, would be something which would warrant the mass changing of "attempt" to "kick" in every article. As was pointed out at the Teahouse, what really matters is what reliable sources say and for the most part they seem to use "attempt" to describe both successful or unsuccessful kicks when it comes to football (at least in the United States), with the statistical categories commonly used by governing bodies like the NFL being "field goals attempted" and "field goals made". Now, it's possible that in football games broadcast/reported on in other countries in non-English or in English by persons not very well-versed in the game that different terminology may be used and this might be what the other IP is used to hearing. Once again though, I don't think that's a question of grammar as much as it is a question of preference or national variety of English, and I think MOS:TIES would be quite applicable to articles about American football players or American football teams, even for those persons/teams which are located in countries outside of the United States. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:22, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Marchjuly Where is "there"? If you make a conclusion be so nice as to supply why is it so otherwise it is left up to each one to decide for you where it is that "there" is. This is not a mere exercise to tally up who is yes and who is no. This to understand why you are yes or why you are no. A thousand people can agree on something that just may not be applicable so how is that to help resolve something.2601:188:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 May I suggest that the WP article dealing with conflict resolution or de-escuellation be consulted to help resolve just what accomplishment is sought. This is not the proper environment to ban people from WP editing. That is most appropriately handled in another administrative action. We are here to understand a question that has been put forth. It seems to be a tendency to make statements with unsubstantiation except the pull of the shark toward the bleeding swimmer. That may not be the best use of ones actions or for the time that other WP editors put into how decisions are made regarding WP's policies and guidelines. Now, what is there to be said about someone having difficulty with the English language? Examples would be wonderful. Now, was it because references to national sports teams where changed to properly reflect WP titles? Or was it because you believe they were not expressed according to the English grammar rule which has effectively been superceded regarding sports teams. For many, to be on a national team you do not have to be born in that country, be a resident, be a citizen ort having previously been in that sport in that nation to be on that national team--or even your parents or their parents etc. Or was it a more concise organization of sporting events and accomplishments that was I did not understand that was the problem? Or spelling corrections that at times needed to have a clarification attached in order for someone better able to make the decision instead of unilaterally judging that in the case of a direct quotation you found that a clarification was not the proper thing to do and then proceeded to cancel it instead of checking the source to determine if the undeclared "sic" had yet to be verified? WP probably benefits far greater when a direct quote is noted with a clarify instead of it just letting it ride and never to be found until that most embarrassing situation arises and everyone is looking at the other wondering why it never had been found. Or do you for a fact know that misspellings do not exist in WP article direct quotations?It is wonderful to see that the original question asked has come to fore rather than focus on the discussion that may have been shaped by the less than complete example provided in the Teahouse discussion dealing with the statistical charts. Statistical charts are a writing tool that benefits from limited subject matter because if a result is questionable as to it content you can refer to the other portions to better understand where the confusion may lie. In article text you may not have that benefit since more than one subject or action may be included. Marchjuly has shown us how that could impact the fuller understanding as to what there is at hand. They are not the same writing so any solution may have to address what is best for WP to follow when it concerns the differences found with statistical charts and article text. The example that people saw in the Teahouse was a statistical chart, not article text. The most common example of text expressions of field goals was percentages such as '"X" of "Y" field goals attempts'. Many times attempts was not included in the text so WP has a tradition of multiple expressions in this particular matter. The situation is totally voided if all you do is use a statement that avoids attempts if that is hat is already being used. And if it is being used so much then i guess it is endorsed by WP otherwise this would not happen. But I still insist that the best policy and practice of WP is to use language that is most commonly understood by the meaning or words so that those that consult WP are not confused. And who better yet to provide proper expression but those that are not familiar with a subject. Some familiar with a subject does not need to be explained about something as much as the uninitiated.There is no avoiding that the fundamental understanding of attempt is "not successful" therefore at what point is a field goal attempt no longer an attempt if that initial attempt earn points threfore was successful and no longer an attempt. Even the word "try" is not successful. The only thing that missed and completed field goal kicks is the kick. You cannot change that. (talk) It is not if the kick is made or missed but whether the pointy isd mader or missed. That is what sports gargon gets you. You can still miss the ball in the kick and miss the field goal. An attempt is surpassed by a completion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:9149:8300:48BF:1B93:B5D4:3F0D (talk) 09:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * A field goal can be described as "attempted" regardless of whether it results in points or not. "Attempt" simply describes the act of kicking the ball towards the goalposts and bears no relation to the outcome of the kick. – PeeJay 11:36, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, you have made your statement and we have you under the category of "attempts, okay" but what is the authority you are citing? I looked under "PeeJay2K3 Field Goal Rules" and did not find anything. I understand if your statement is a declaration of what you think but that is what we have encountered here--what people think and not what is the definition under the most credible authorities. Or has the question ever been addressed by them? What do the money guys say. I say money guys because they having a professional league much longer than another group just might have a longer standing standard on the subject? We ask of it in WP articles so why not discussions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 18:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you are so confused by basic English. PeeJay2K3 has explained it quite well. You can see the terminology in use here: https://watchstadium.com/news/collegekickers-when-they-make-miss-field-goals-by-distance-situation-and-more-06-11-2019/
 * "On a yard-by-yard basis, Power Five kickers made at least 92 percent of their field goal attempts from 17 through 26 yards." --Khajidha (talk) 18:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That is the situation--you don't see? Merriem-webster says: "the act or an instance of trying to do or accomplish something : an act or instance of attempting something". There is no mention of accomplishment. Possible since if it is accomplished, it is no longer an attempt? In the law: "Attempt. An undertaking to do an act that entails more than mere preparation but does not result in the successful completion of the act." https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/attempt. I can understand why WP would use something used by another entity but if it is found to be faulty--confusing, then there just might be justification on the part of WP to better define another expression. Word meanings and intent can change and have changed over time. I will leave that yp to the individual to believe that is true as some dictionaries cite "archaic" or "obsolete" in some instances of word meaning. Why do people sometimes say, Don't put gobs of mayonaise or catsip on my sandwich." and my non-European immigrant sandwich maker asks me what are gobs? A term used by my grandparents born around 1900? The term is from gobbits popular during the time of Henry 8. Using confusing terms does not help in establishing or maintaining credibility.
 * Time and time and time again an expression is used that there comes a time when people say that it sounds confusing and just maybe there ought to be a change for clarity's sake and reputation and credibility. Okay, WP is to take on the usage of every other group because they used it before WP? If another group does not understand just what is the meaning of what is the term thue use, WP is going to blindly accept it although there has been drawn a question to it. It would not have much of a footing in the court of law if you are using attempt to indicate a success.WP policies and guidelines are filled by why "X" is done and not "Y" because there could be confusion. Are you upset because someone has done it on your shift? A lot of people thought they had not seen 1939 coming on but in reality they were jusy wishing it would go away. But it still came.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 19:14, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm gonna just say it. WP:CIR. You do not have the level of English comprehension necessary for this conversation. However, I will attempt it once more. Who knows, this may be the successful attempt. Did you see what I did there? That is exactly the usage in question here. A "field goal attempt" is simply any time someone tries to kick a field goal. Whether they score or not does not matter. There may be 17 attempts to kick a field goal, with only one of them being successful. That would be 1 field goal scored out of 17 field goals attempted. --Khajidha (talk) 19:23, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Personalisation. It can be frustrating when you find that your powers of pursuasion are not as effective as you would want. Questioning competency is a debate tactic. But its effectiveness is shown to be temporary at best especially when over time it must have been use in discussions there what was not possible was accepted as possible. I will not hold that against you because you still have time to redeem yourself. And I do not mean "god". You continue to justify something because that is what it meant before and therefore that is what it must be accepted for what it mean now and forever. But that is not reality when something is found to have fault. Even a bit of fault in being universal and unquestionable.
 * There are occasions when how you express yourself in a verbal discussion face to face with others that terms that on the face are not logical are acceptable because you have the immediate ability to react to the look of confusion on the other person's face. You do not have that in the written filed. You leave it to the other person bringing attention to the need to clarify or come to the conclusion you do not know what is it that you speak of because your logic is inconsistent with reality. I was never good at the maths and sciences based on what i felt is that unlike history and some other subjects they just did not have good stories to express just what was it that they wanted you to learn from the exercises. But I do understand that two things cannot occupy the same space--THat is what madame Curie found out. Or that there is a solution to a math problem when in the equation you have them standing and sitting at the same time.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 19:43, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Your logic is incorrect here, I'm sorry to say. In the English language an attempt can be either successful or unsuccessful. There are some instances in which the noun form explicitly describes a failure, but this is not the case when it comes to American football field goals.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:28, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your assuredness. 2018 Official Playing Rules of the National Football League. Rule 3, Section 11--Field Goal: A field goal is made by kicking the ball from the field of play through the plane of the opponents' Goal, which is an area either between the goal posts and above the cross bar, or, if above the goal posts, between the outside edges of the goal posts.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 20:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC) They also have expressions such as "successful field goal" and "missed field goals", so they recognize that a successful field goal is not a missed field goal.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 20:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Correct, and also in the rules manual you will find the NFL repeatedly refers to the combination of "successful" and "missed" field goals as "field goal attempts".  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:58, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I do not contest to what they refer to but that there is a lack of logic in what is expressed. And when people come to the understanding that what is recognized as illogical may best be surpassed by what does not add to confusion in order to establish credibility especially as in a court of law what is being said is correct would not be found correct since an attempt is not a successful action. Once an action is a success then it is no longer an attempt. The old hit or miss concept.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 21:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Criminal law definitions do not have to apply for a sports league though, especially if it is different from a general dictionary definition.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  21:16, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Even Cambridge dictionary does not quality (qualify) attempt as regardless as to whether it is a success or not: "the act of trying to make or do something". So the ambiguity that is wanted to justify the expression is missing. And that is the good ole Brits at what they do best, use and understanding of words, BBC drama productions and Masterpiece.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 21:20, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Please read Legal English (also known as legalese). Words and phrases in legal terms are different than in standard use English. So stop referring to it. Also, you are rambling about unrelated non-sense in your overlong, wandering posts. Yosemiter (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I think it has already been mentioned about debate tactics and their longevity. Is your point to win the question based on personalisation or discussion of the points. I was aware of jurisdiction but i was not aware that certain things were exempt from court action, either criminal or civil. The response seems to be justified that a term should be continued to be effective even if it is illogical. Fiction can be whatever you want it to be because it is made up. It is not necessarily intended to be factual but persuasive in its conjuring up something. But Non-fiction is fact otherwise we might have accepted as true the history of the world according to the Soviet Union.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 21:39, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * By your reasoning we could not say that Trump ran for election in 2016. When you understand why even the eventual winner of an election is described as having run for the office, you will understand why the kicker who scores a field goal is still said to have made an attempt. --Khajidha (talk) 21:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

You can say it that way but we already know that he ran and he received the minority popular vote so why not go to the state of progression to say that he is president following the 2016 election? That is the point that seems to be missing in the explanations advanced.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 21:52, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Because we are talking about success in the context of all the times a player goes out and kicks the ball. Sometimes the player scores, sometimes he doesn't, but ALL of those kicks are attempts. They are all sincere tries to score. --Khajidha (talk) 21:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay. Let us forget that we are on a carousel going up and down and all around and so far getting anywhere. The NFL definition does not state that it applies to all kicks as a field goal; only those that are successful otherwise in their wisdom they would have said so. Even the Brits out of good ole Cambridge agree that an attempt does not include successful actions otherwise they would have qualified it as such. And remember that they had the benefit of that guy who embarrassed himself by peeing into a fireplace with company watching before seeking refuge away from his society by working on that dictionary. Then we have a group using the word "attempt" as if it accurately represents successful and missed kicks. Yes, when someone approaches the ball to kick for as field goal point that is the start of an attempt because we do not know if it will fulfill what the NFL counts as a field goal. But if it does fulfill that purpose it is no longer an attempt because it is a realized action. A failed field goal kick is not a realised action, is not a fact and therefore will always be an attempt. The only thing being common between successful field goals and missed ones is that they both are actions but successful field goals are and will always be field goals. The situation with using attempts, however many times it is brought to the forefront that they should be called attempts because someone else uses that term to express the situation, goes to logic. The maths will show you that successes and misses are not the same thing. The same thing cannot be used to express them in a computation. You cannot be standing and sitting at the same time. Progression does not enable it.2605:E000:9149:8300:193B:3F53:BB51:A254 (talk) 22:19, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Merge discussion at Talk:American football field for Yard lines
FYI, a discussion was started over a year ago at Talk:American football field requesting the article Yard lines be merged into American football field. There has not been any activity besides the nominator. Thanks!  Eagles   24/7  (C)  21:39, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Video content on pages
Just an idea I've had, and I have no idea if it's allowed or not. There are a lot of American football concepts that are difficult to explain in text - is there any way we could drag content from videos of games, even fair use NFL or college games, and use it in articles as examples of play, perhaps with a reduced quality or frame rate? One example I could think of would be Safety (gridiron football score), which is a scoring play that is complicated. Having a video of what a safety looks like might be useful and an image is really hard to indicate it. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 22:39, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

XFL Draft notice
Just a heads up with the 2020 XFL Draft being conducted Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. 560 players will be drafted by XFL teams so expect a high level of IP activity changing articles. We need to treat these draftees just like we treat NFL draftees, i.e. their status in the infoboxes should be "Unsigned draft pick" as long as they are not under contract by another professional football league. There are many players in the draft pool currently signed to NFL/CFL/AFL active rosters and practice squads, and XFL teams will only hold their draft rights at the moment (except for Landry Jones, the only player signed by the XFL thus far). Roster templates and navboxes have yet to be created, if someone could make those that'd be helpful as well. Thanks!  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:47, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

UNB football
Please reinstate a Canadian football team as I played against great UNB teams from 1964 to 1967 (Acadia). They were wonderful teams during that period. William Smith M.D.,Haydenville — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:193:8200:BF80:F5C4:2C9:60EA:A083 (talk) 02:36, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

RfC on brain damage
There is an RfC currently underway about where a section on brain damage should appear in a biography of Arron Hernandez. Your contribution would be welcome. --Slugger O&#39;Toole (talk) 22:08, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Arena Football League folded
Among the many tasks that will have to be completed now that the Arena Football League today has announced the league has ceased entirely is updating player pages. I have created a tracking category of players that have an AFL team as their current team in the NFL biography infobox here.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Quick rivalry question
Just noticed Colts–Texans rivalry was moved from draftspace by its creator, I've gone ahead and removed the template. I know we've had some rivalry spam in the recent past - is this considered an actual rivalry? None of the sources mention the rivalry specifically in their headlines. Cheers SportingFlyer  T · C  08:02, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Probably not. Seems more like cherry-picking facts from routine coverage of individual games, as opposed to independent sources that look at a rivalry as a whole.—Bagumba (talk) 14:40, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Seahawks-Packers rivalry article?
Is there enough animosity/history to warrant a standalone article. Are Fail Mary, the bizarre (and, as a longtime Seahawks fan, thoroughly enjoyable) conference final and Hasselbeck's faceplant enough? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Player stats
Serious discussion I think needs to be had. The rise of the AAF and XFL make me think that we need to add in "career stats" in the infobox alike there is with CFL and NFL for these kind of players. Makes it a lot easier than scrolling to career statistics. CoughingCookieHeart (talk) 19:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Would this be the AAF that went out of business without completing a single season and the XFL that (while still going) has also yet to complete a single season? I don't see the need. There's a new football league every few years. Mainly because they never last more than a few years. --Khajidha (talk) 23:45, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Portal:American football
Portal:American football has been updated, with the addition of more articles and a new images section. Take a look, and feel free to comment at the portal's talk page if desired. North America1000 03:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Portals are still a thing?  Eagles   24/7  (C)  14:54, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Request for input regarding status of XFL
Hello. There is a discussion at Talk:XFL_(2020) regarding the status of the XFL following their suspension of league operations and bankruptcy filing that may interest members of this WikiProject.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  16:30, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

The 1000 Destubbing Challenge
Would anybody be interested in a WikiProject American football/The 1000 Destubbing Challenge to see 1000 American football-related articles destubbed? Not a contest but it might be something which works to help improve existing content. If there is more than five people interested I'll create it.† Encyclopædius  11:26, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Missing/broken references
I'm trying to make a dent in Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors, and a few articles within the hockey sphere have issues that I can't fix on my own. Basically, some refs linked via sfn and harvnb and similar have missing full citations or have some other problems. You can check these instructions to have error messages enabled (Svick's script is the simplest to use, but Trappist's script is a bit more refined if you're interested in doing deeper cleanup).

In particular, the following articles could use some of your attention • 1905 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1905 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

• 1906 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1906 Florida football team

• 1907 Florida football team

• 1908 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1908 College Football All-Southern Team

• 1908 Florida football team

• 1909 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1909 Florida football team

• 1910 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1910 Florida football team

• 1910 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

• 1911 Florida Gators football team

• 1911 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

• 1912 Rock Island Independents season

• 1913 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1913 Florida Gators football team

• 1915 Auburn Tigers football team

• 1915 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1915 Florida Gators football team

• 1916 Florida Gators football team

• 1917 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1917 Florida Gators football team

• 1918 college football season

• 1918 Pittsburgh Panthers football team

• 1919 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1919 Florida Gators football team

• 1919 Georgia Bulldogs football team

• 1920 Buffalo All-Americans season

• 1920 Chicago Cardinals season

• 1920 Chicago Tigers season

• 1920 Clemson Tigers football team

• 1920 Cleveland Tigers (NFL) season

• 1920 Florida Gators football team

• 1920 Hammond Pros season

• 1920 Muncie Flyers season

• 1920 Rochester Jeffersons season

• 1920 Rock Island Independents season

• 1921 Centre Praying Colonels football team

• 1924 Alabama Crimson Tide football team

• 1924 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

• 1925 Chicago Bears season

• 1926 Alabama Crimson Tide football team

• 1928 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

• 1930 Florida Gators football team

• 1931 Florida Gators football team

• 1932 Florida Gators football team

• 1934 LSU Tigers football team

• 1945 Florida Gators football team

• 1945 SANFL Grand Final

• 1961 Florida Gators football team

• 1966 Florida Gators football team

• 1970 Cleveland Browns season The cause is often copy-pasting a short reference from another article without copy-pasting the full reference. If you can find where things were copy-pasted from, you can usually find what the full reference is.

Thanks for any help you can give! &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I've taken care of the NFL season articles (and the first Clemson entry) and struck those out.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  13:27, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Finished Clemson season articles.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  13:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Finished Florida season articles.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  13:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * All ✅  Eagles   24/7  (C)  14:50, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Those were pretty easy to identify since there were all at the top of the category with similar names. Searching for "American Football" on Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors yields ~121 results so do feel free to have a go at things. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Notability?
Hi, as I know next to nothing about American football, I thought it best to ask what the experts think: is someone with these credentials likely to meet WP:NGRIDIRON notability (just talking about the athletic career; ignore the acting etc. for now)? TIA, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * It appears the player in question never appeared in an NFL or Arena Football League game, so they do not meet NGRIDIRON. The SIFL was a low-level or third tier indoor league and playing in it does not mean that the player received significant coverage. The individual here would need to show evidence of meeting WP:GNG, which may be possible based on the acting or college coverage. Yosemiter (talk) 20:15, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I did a WP:BEFORE search for gridiron and acting and nominated the article for deletion, cheers for the heads up! SportingFlyer  T · C  21:13, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Same person?
Are Jerome Gantt and Jerry Gantt the same person? Cacrats (talk) 06:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources say they are the same person. As Jerome Gantt was created first, the other probably needs to be merged there (including a possible WP:HISTMERGE). I can't tell what the WP:COMMONNAME is though from the sources provided, they are just stats sites. Yosemiter (talk) 23:41, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree 100% with Yosemiter. Cbl62 (talk) 23:52, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

National Hand Touch Football League
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Demons24/sandbox2 Is this a good draft for an article I am not sure? Demons24 (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

WikiConference North America
Hey all! I am planning on having a WikiConference North America sports panel December 12 3:00 EST. This is something that has never been done before and there are many sports which are "native" to North America and part of the America identity. What it seems to be is that we (you, me, and other members of WikiSports) will be in a Zoom (or other video conferencing app) to discuss our experiences in editing sports on Wikipedia. These can range from combating vandalism to how to best get permission to use sports photos. The organizers of WikiConference North America (WCNA) created an Etherpad surrounding planning which I will link here. if you Command F "sports" you will find the section. This will be the very first panel WCNA has ever had on sports so not much to go off of here.

Please ping me if you have questions as this page is not on my watchlist. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 20:47, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Category:Association football players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion
Category:Association football players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 11:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Category:Australian rules football players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion
Category:Australian rules football players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 11:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Category:Rugby union players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion
Category:Rugby union players that played in the NFL has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 11:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Category:Footballers who switched code has been nominated for deletion
Category:Footballers who switched code has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 11:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Naming convention for sports stadia
A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 20:19, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

American Football Minor Leagues WikiProject Proposal
I have made a proposal for a WikiProject, American Football Minor Leagues. It will improve football minor-league articles. Put your name in the "support" section of the article if you would like to join. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Status of the United States Football League?
What is the status of the United States Football League? Has that been determined as a "Major League" or a "Minor League?" What is/should be the parent project for that? How would it fit in within the proposed minor league project? Do it's players garner automatic notability?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 02:33, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The USFL is one of the leagues listed under WP:NGRIDIRON #1, so any player who played in games in the league is notable, per WP:NGRIDIRON. Ejgreen77 (talk) 02:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Canada men's national football team
I have proposed that Canada men's national football team be moved to Canada men's national gridiron football team. The current title is not sufficiently specific to be useful to a reader. The discussion is here. – PeeJay 11:59, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Arena Football League team season templates
Hi there - I have nominated all AFL team season templates for deletion. The discussion can be found at Templates for discussion/Log/2021 January 26. Thanks, PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 21:13, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

National Football Conference
I have nominated NFC for | Wikipedia:Articles for improvement. Please present your views so that the article be improved fast.--Atlantis77177 (talk) 06:48, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

TfD nomination of NFL season templates
Hi there - I have nominated all of the NFL's team season templates for deletion. For anyone interested, you can find the discussion at Templates for discussion/Log/2021 February 16. Thanks, PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 04:04, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

European League of Football approval
Hello. Is it possible for any of the reviewers here to take a look at the article for the newly formed European League of Football? It was submitted as a draft (Draft:European League of Football). This new league is scheduled to kick off in June, and it would be great if we can get the article up before that. The league is poised to become the first pro league in Europe since NFL Europe folded. As you can see in the references, news coverage has been pretty significant as of late. There's also a deal with NFL for the NFL Europe team names, and the involvement of coaches & players with CFL & NFL experience, both of which are giving the league legitimacy even before kickoff. Of course, I will keep updating it with all new details and info before the season kicks off. Please let me know if it needs anything else in order to be approved. Thank you. Cristane (talk) 14:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for Comment on SSN at WP:Notability (sports)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:105%;color:#FA0"> Cassiopeia</b>(<b style="#0000FF">talk</b>) 00:26, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposed change in sports notability policy
A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports). Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Free image for living football player
Recently I've been working on the Ramsey Dardar entry that I created back in 2013. I'm thinking of eventually taking it to GAN, but I hate to do that with no image of the subject. I've looked around a good bit for a free image - Commons, Google Images, Flickr, etc. - but no luck, and fair use seems to be a no-go since he's alive. I am just trying to think of ideas for an image of a living subject when I'm unlikely to encounter the subject to take a photo myself.

I found this image of a Sunbeam Bread trading card. I know that occasionally trading cards from certain companies/years are free from copyright restrictions, but I don't know about this one. I even thought about mugshots, as some of those are PD and Dardar has had some brushes with the law (to put it mildly), but I can't find one and I wouldn't feel great about using one for an infobox image. Any thoughts? Larry Hockett (Talk) 02:54, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand the American football section? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:55, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Too many flags?
Hi there! It appears that flag icons in the articles 2014 in American football through 2021 in American football don't comply with MOS:FLAGS. Checking here to determine what the consensus is before I remove anything. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 18:42, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed that they violate MOS:NONSOVEREIGN and MOS:FLAGRELEVANCE (and somewhat MOS:SPORTFLAG, although that is more about bios). Many of those schools do not directly represent the state in any way. Arguments could be made for state-funded schools, but the many private (ie Stanford, Duke, etc.) and even federal (ie Navy, Army) are certainly not. Also, since there are no rules about state representation as players, I would still argue that state schools do not represent the state (such as the Oregon having only 18 of their 124 players from Oregon). Yosemiter (talk) 19:05, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I removed the flags for the universities, and I left the flags for the international competitions.  GoingBatty (talk) 19:48, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Ambiguous links to college football seasons
There are several articles with links to DAB pages where expert attention would be welcome: (Robert Cire appears three times, which may save a little labour.) Thanks in advance, Narky Blert (talk) 14:39, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * 1957 college football season (2)
 * 1957 in sports
 * Robert Cire
 * 1958 college football season (2)
 * 1958 Tangerine Bowl (December)
 * Robert Cire
 * 1959 college football season (2)
 * Robert Cire
 * S.B. Ballard Stadium
 * 1965 college football season (3)
 * 1965 Quantico Marines Devil Dogs football team
 * Alabama State Hornets football
 * George Seifert
 * 1966 college football season (4)
 * 1966 NFL Championship Game
 * 1966 in sports
 * 1967 Sugar Bowl
 * Alabama State Hornets football
 * 1967 college football season (2)
 * Mertz Mortorelli
 * Sam Wyche
 * 1972 college football season (2)
 * Joe Repko
 * West Texas A&M Buffaloes football
 * 1977 college football season (1)
 * 1978 NCAA Division I-A football season
 * Another one - 1956 college football season in 1956 Maine Black Bears football team. Narky Blert (talk) 10:53, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * or may be able to help. Certes (talk) 20:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Style guide with respect to weeks of the NFL season
I'm not sure whether this WikiProject has any style guides anywhere but I was hoping someone could tell me whether there was a consensus as to how the weeks of the NFL season should be noted. For example, should I be writing in the body of an article that "so-and-so rushed for a touchdown in Week 15," "...in week 15," ," "...in Week Fifteen," or "...in week fifteen?" I've been trying to skirt the issue by writing things like "in the ninth game of the season" or "in the ninth week of the season." Any guidance would be appreciated. --Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 15:16, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I usually capitalize "Week" or "Game" when followed by a number, never spelling out the number (despite MOS:SPELL_09). That's how I think sources usually style it.—Bagumba (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The sources say "Week 1" to "Week 18", and so should we. – PeeJay 13:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Matching AFL with NFL
Would anybody object, if I were to move the Year American Football League season & Year American League Championship Game articles titles to Year AFL season & Year AFL Championship Game titles? This would match with the Year NFL season & Year NFL Championship Game article titles. GoodDay (talk) 16:33, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I would object to that. "AFL" doesn't just apply to the American Football League, it could also apply to the Australian Football League. – PeeJay 01:00, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree. It would make it ambiguous with other AFL sports leagues. It'd be ok to shorten if there was only one AFL sports league.—Bagumba (talk) 01:54, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Well then, what about changing the Year NFL season to Year National Football League season & Year NFL Championship Game to Year National Football League Championship Game? GoodDay (talk) 05:47, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The difference is that the U.S. National Football League is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for NFL. There is not a primary topic sports league for AFL.—Bagumba (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * All I'm asking, is that we bring both in sync. Why the resistance? GoodDay (talk) 16:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't really see the need to do that. "NFL" satisfies WP:COMMONNAME and is not ambiguous so we can use that title, whereas "AFL" is ambiguous. Unfortunately that leads to disparity between the two, but that's not a big deal at the end of the day. – PeeJay 19:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

By the way, Year AFL season articles & Year AFL Championship Game articles, all re-direct to the American Football League seasons & Championship Games. They're not disambiguations. GoodDay (talk) 05:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It is a disambiguation, the issue is with the redirects. You can raise an WP:RFD topic regarding the targets of those redirects if you like. – PeeJay 15:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I may open an RFC on whether we should have the Year American Football League season article titles changed to AFL season titles. The Year American Football League Championship Game titles changed to Year AFL Championship Game titles. Also the Year American Football League playoffs titles changed to Year AFL playoffs. GoodDay (talk) 03:04, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment – So others watching this page are aware, there is another discussion at WT:WikiProject National Football League, which is along the same lines as the proposal in the RfC below, except that discussion deals with opening sentences in the lead rather than article titles. --GoneIn60 (talk) 06:55, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

American Football League related articles, should they be changed to AFL
Hello. As you may (or may not) know, we've got season articles & championship game articles in full-name form for the AFL & abbreviated form for the NFL. Examples: Now I've heard the argument that we shouldn't change to AFL, because of the Australian Football League. But don't we also have the National Football League (Ireland), called the NFL? So here's my suggestion.
 * 1965 American Football League season & 1965 American Football League Championship Game
 * 1965 NFL season & 1965 NFL Championship Game
 * Let's page move the aforementioned Year American Football League season & Year Championship Game titles to Year AFL season & Year AFL Championship Game, to match up with their NFL counter-parts. GoodDay (talk) 15:04, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Survey

 * Oppose As already discussed at (above), there is currently no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for AFL, which disambiguates to multiple sports leagues.  On the other hand, the PT for NFL is the National Football League.—Bagumba (talk) 15:36, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It appears the American Football League (1960-1969) is the only sports league abbreviated "AFL" with its seasons in that time period. The Australian Football League was the Victorian Football League (VFL) until 1990, none of the other "American Football League"s were active at the time, the Arena Football League was founded in the 1980s, the Alberta Football League in 1984, the American Fencing League doesn't have an article and redirects to "Classical fencing", and the Arizona Fall League was founded in 1992. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * So.... are you supporting or opposing the proposal. GoodDay (talk) 20:25, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I weakly support the move, since there are no other leagues titled "AFL" that played at the time and as Pro-Football-Reference lists it as "196X AFL" season. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:00, 8 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose - It doesn't matter what other AFLs were active at the time of the American Football League, the fact is there is no primary topic for AFL. There is a stronger argument for changing the NFL articles to use "National Football League" so they match National Football League, but definitely not for moving any American Football League articles to use AFL. – PeeJay 19:10, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Would you support moving "Year NFL season" & "Year NFL Championship Game" to "Year National Football League season" & "Year National Football League Championship Game"? GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably not. – PeeJay 10:31, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose There are too many "AFL" leagues for any to be primary. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak Oppose: while the American Football League is probably the primary topic in the years it existed, it could easily be argued it is not the primary topic in general. Just recently, I came across this series of edits. Not only did they use "AFL" in reference to the Aussie league, the links themselves go to the Arena league (which I fixed here). It seems problematic that 2016 AFL season is for the Aussie league, goes to the 2016 Arena Football League season, and 1968 AFL season redirects to 1968 American Football League season. It does not appear that any of those leagues should use "AFL" in their article titles as it might be confusing. Redirects in years where there was not more than one similarly popular AFLs would likely be fine though.Yosemiter (talk) 17:24, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Those 2016 AFL season articles (I assume everything from 1990-present) do seem slightly out-of-line, including from their own internal style. Those should, on the face of it, be renamed.  The redirects can't really be helped -- can't really make them disambiguations with a lack of other viable targets!  109.255.211.6 (talk) 00:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would support the moving of all Aussie season pages to their full name, especially since I'm not sure they actually would even be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in the late 90s early 2000s and peak Arena League years. The Arena Football League generated a fair amount of media post-Kurt Warner winning a Super Bowl years and had occasional from NFL/NBA/NHL and celebrities. I'm not concerned about the redirects in the 60s, as you said, there is not really another AFL to be concerned with at that time. Yosemiter (talk) 21:19, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Great as this idea seems -- according as it does exactly with my own! -- it's decidedly outside of the scope of this RFC, and indeed (despite their acronym-buddy status) this Wikiproject. I'd suggest moving any concrete proposal on this to the Aussie Rules project, or to WP:RM.  109.255.211.6 (talk) 22:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Agree with others that there's no primary topic for AFL, unlike NFL, which is why the title formats of these articles differ from one another. American Football League only has a slight edge over other AFL terms, at best. It still fails the conditions at WP:PTOPIC, and therefore causes ambiguity when the initialism is used in such titles. Whether it's "1960 AFL season" or "1991 AFL season", AFL should be expanded to full form in both situations to avoid issues, particularly given the differences in perspective between American and non-American, English-speaking countries. --GoneIn60 (talk) 06:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is a fickle, tricky and less than strictly objective beast around the margins, but both of these seem pretty clear-cut.  Now in another fifty years' time maybe the NFL will be bankrupt and long-forgotten (or be renamed and accepting its first Lunar or Martian expansion franchises), by which point it may have lost that status.  Or Gaelic Games will have overrun the planet, and the Irish rules will have similar prominence to the American ones.  in such cases, it'd eventually need to be fully spelled out again.  But for now "American Football League" and "NFL" are the primary and common names, and appropriate titles, despite the lack of exact syntactic symmetry.   109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Discussion
I don't this RfC is phrased neutrally. Loki (talk) 19:49, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * How would you phrase it? GoodDay (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It is typically preferred to keep your opinion out of the RfC opening statement. After giving the bullet point examples, the next line should have read something like: Should "American Football League" be abbreviated "AFL" in article titles that use the format [Year] American Football League season and [Year] American Football League Championship Game? Your preference and opinions could then be stated in the survey section. --GoneIn60 (talk) 07:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Doesn't really matter how it's written up. So far, very few are agreeing to bring the 1960–69 AFL season & AFL Championship Game articles into line with their NFL counter-parts. GoodDay (talk) 18:54, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I get that it doesn't matter this time around. We are already in the thick of things. For future reference, that's the right approach. Free advice. --GoneIn60 (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, there's inconsistencies in the Year AFL season names themselevs. For examples: 1965 AFL season re-directs to an American Football League season article, while 2015 AFL season is an Australian Football League season article. GoodDay (talk) 02:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Is this comment misplaced? I'd move it, except on the one hand I don't want to presume, and on the other, amn't sure where it's intended to go.  109.255.211.6 (talk) 18:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not displaced. This is the discussion subsection, which is where discussion is held. GoodDay (talk) 19:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Discussion generally makes more sense in context, or with the missing context made explicit. Kinda confusing and wildly inconsistent if you ask me -- but to be fair, no-one did.  109.255.211.6 (talk) 19:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised there hasn't been 'more' input, from a larger number of editors, on this RFC topic. Reckon they're glued into the NFL playoffs. GoodDay (talk) 00:46, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Closure request
I'm requesting closure over at Closure requests. At the pace & direction this RFC is heading. By the time the RFC tag would've expired in early-February? We'd likely have 15-opposes to 1-support. GoodDay (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * (copying from my reply on the WP:CR page) For future reference, per WP:RFCEND, the initiator of an RfC can withdraw the RfC early if the community response is obvious very quickly. That said, I'm trying to get more practice in wikipedia procedure and using the templates and whatnot, so I don't mind quickly stepping in and closing this out for you. Just, in the future... you can do it yourself. Don't feel like you need a formal 3rd party closer for this. Fieari (talk) 04:09, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Indoor American football
I ran across Indoor American football, which arena football got merged into. First of all, "Indoor American football" sounds like a made-up term for what North Americans would just call "indoor football" and the rest of the world doesn't refer to much at all. I'd argue it's a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for indoor football, but the rest of the world might not agree, even though there is no equivalent article for indoor association football. "Indoor American football" fails WP:NATURALDIS: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources.

If we don't rename it to plain "indoor football", it seems indoor football (gridiron) might be a better title. The lead already reads ...is a variation of gridiron football played at ice hockey-sized indoor arenas, and some teams have been in Canada.—Bagumba (talk) 08:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Village pump proposals
There are several proposals located at Village pump (policy)/Sports notability to either abolish or significantly rewrite WP:NSPORT which may be of interest to this project's editors. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

George Floyd (American football)
I plan on nominating George Floyd (American football) for featured article status but it still needs a good review by someone not involved, to put the sports wars aside for a period, due to a Wikibreak being taken by the reviewer who couldn't finish the review at Featured article candidates/George Floyd (American football)/archive2 (and I can't wait forever). Feel free to review/edit as you see fit. I am really hoping to get this to featured article status. Therapyisgood (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

RIP NGRIDIRON
See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League regarding its repeal. Cbl62 (talk) 10:01, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Kent Waldrep
Kent Waldrep, a TCU running back who was paralyzed during a game and became a disability rights and spinal cord research advocate, has died. Thriley (talk) 19:06, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Cologne Centurions (disambiguation)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Cologne Centurions (disambiguation) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him &#124; talk) 03:48, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports has an RFC
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:36, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

About Draft:Griddy
Hi fellow handegg fans,

This little draft would appear to me to be a potential WP:DYK candidate.

Your thoughts about this?

Pete "I ♥ football, football, football, football, football, and football" AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:51, 9 May 2022 (UTC)


 * How is trolling on random project pages allowed? PlaceKickerEnthusiast (talk) 23:05, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Working on fixing over-capitalization
For the last couple of days I've been using WP:JWB, fixing over-capitalization in articles on football seasons, teams, bowl games, etc. Then I had a browser crash and lost all my state, which included dozens of regex patterns that I had developed as I went along. If/when I restart this I'll try to be more organized. There's still a lot to fix even in articles that I made a pass over already. E.g. see the tables at 2000 NFL season and 2000 New York Jets season. I've done pretty well, I think, on most of the bowl game and team articles through 2000, such as 2000 Holiday Bowl and 2000 Florida Gators football team, but not all of 2000 and newer ones (I had my list of candidate articles sorted by title, so worked from the past toward the present). Some of those still have work to do, like the positions in the table at 1990 Iowa Hawkeyes football team. Anyway, if any of you could spot-check my work, offer suggestions, or want to help, I'd like to hear. Dicklyon (talk) 03:16, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

United States Football League WikiProject Proposal
Hello, I have made a proposal for a United States Football League WikiProject. If you wish to comment on it, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Kellis7 18:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I say no, there is not much depth into both leagues of the USFL. Sportsfangnome (talk) 20:45, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

New category on page for this WikiProject?
I think we should have a new category on this WikiProject about our accomplishments, something like this:Articles for improvement/Accomplishments, but less complex, and it is just the first table. It can also have a count of how many featured items, good articles, and B class articles we have, alongside with members who helped with the article that are on this WikiProject, and if the person is not here anymore, then we can italicize them, I say this is a good idea, what about y'all? Sportsfangnome (talk) 23:27, 11 August 2022 (UTC)