Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates/Archive 2

Template:Variables
Hello. I've just created Variables, and I don't know if it is redundant with any other template, could it be merged with any other? or do you have any suggestion for it? Locos ~ epraix Beaste~praix 18:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. I don't know about redundancy, but there are several other comments that I left you at on the talk page. -- Will scrlt ( →“¡¿Talk?!” ) 20:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. Locos ~ epraix Beaste~praix 22:26, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Merging Tic and Ti
What's the point of having two templates which have the same function? they have no optional parameters, so it would be easy to merge each other; they just have a couple of differences: the link "links" in tic sends you to a "What links here" with a limit of 500 (Ex:Infobox), ti does the same but it has no specific limit, it just use the default one (Ex:Infobox), and the other difference is that the template ti has a bold link, basically useless, because a bold text can be used with these three friends: '''. Locos ~ epraix Beaste~praix 18:51, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Redirects from other capitalisations and Template:R from other capitalisation
FYI, one of the issues is categorization of redirects through a template, and the need to make the redirect a non-simple redirect to attach the template.

R from other capitalisation and have been nominated for deletion on 4 May 2009. See WP:TFD and WP:CFD.

76.66.202.139 (talk) 09:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Accuracy templates for images?
Is there an appropriate template for an image page that is suspected to be inaccurate? I am looking specifically at a that doesn't look believable and doesn't match the source data given by the uploader - probably due to an error in axis labelling. None of the image-space templates I can find seem to be relevant. --GenericBob (talk) 04:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Multi-language quote template
Comparing the english wikipedia quote template with the italian wikipedia quote template I noticed that the Italian template had a very useful functionality, it supports two languages, one would be the source language and the other the translation. This is very useful to give a greater scientific level to articles. An example can be seen here:. So I thought I would try to port this functionality onto the english wikipedia under the name "multi-lingual quote": Template:Multilingual_quote. Though I do have some knowledge of programming I am not yet familiar with wikipedia functions and coding, so I am not quite sure how to get it to work on the english wikipedia. If anyone else finds it useful and has the know-how I would be grateful if they took a look at it. Lwangaman (talk) 10:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

New 'future' template
After concern was raised over the abundance of future templates, I wrote a new mega-template to replace the vast majority of Template:Future xyzs. As this is my first template on this scale, I wondered if anyone would be able to check it over before I put it into use? ninety:one 00:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * User:Ninetyone/testtemplate2
 * Seems good, would it replace future? I have also see a template that makes similar function in es-wikipedia . Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 19:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, should do. Thanks! ninety:one 20:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Assist
Need help with a collapsible template. Thanks, -Stevertigo 05:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Link fix
Can someone help fix the Template:BirdTalk - the todo link on it seems to point to the same page and needs to point to a subpage of the specific article. See the talk pages of a couple of bird articles to see what the problem is. Shyamal (talk) 07:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

People's Republic of Kampuchea Infobox
I hope you can help me to improve the article People's Republic of Kampuchea (PRK). This state went through a name change in its final four years under Hun Sen (State of Cambodia). Since the "State of Cambodia" (SOC) retained the PRK's political leadership and structure, it was essentially a continuation or late avatar of the same regime, so I don't think it deserves a separate article. In fact I think that a separate article would confuse Wikipedia users.

However, since the state symbols did change in between, the Template:Infobox Former Country should reflect that. I wonder if instead of exclusively the all red flag, the infobox could display the two flags of the pro-Hanoi state side by side with the corresponding dates below each: (1979-1989) and (1989-1993) respectively. I have put the images of the two flags in the first section of the article. I think this would go a long way in improving the historical accuracy of the infobox. Thank you in advance. Xufanc (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Help. I need somebody
..I want to propose a template. How can I do it? Thanks--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 20:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The best way is to ask on WP:Requested templates. Svick (talk) 22:21, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:32FC usage
I asked this at Village pump too, but does anyone know why Template:32FC, supposedly some sort of placeholder template for 1632 series characters, is being used in templates like Template:Bullseealso and some really important templates? Has its use expanded or something? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It is used by User:Fabartus to "comment out" text in some template documentation pages (among others), so that it seems that this template is transcluded wherever one of those templates is used. I already told him not to do it anymore. Svick (talk) 11:11, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Awkward template
I swear that I remember way back when you could add: just like  to a sentence or construction if it needed to be rewritten because it sounded awkward (just like the copyeditor's mark "awk" in newspaper editing) but you couldn't figure out how to appropriately rephrase it. It would make a little superscript awkward? or something like that. I have hunted for it, and can't find it! Am I crazy, or does it or something like it in fact exist? If not, I would suggest creating it, unless it has been removed for some particular reason. Thanks, Peace and Passion (talk) 22:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC).
 * It seems to me that Template:Awkward never existed. You could use, which looks like this: (it normaly links to article's talk page, it is instead bold here, because this is talk page). But I would suggest asking at WikiProject Inline Templates's talk page. They should know about this kind of templates. Svick (talk) 00:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Changing gallery temp.
Can someone make it possible to use alt text in Template:Gallery without changing the way it has to be used? I've tried to do this but I can't think of any way to do it without making it necessary to change the format it is used, which would of course break it in the numerous articles it is being used in. ≈ Chamal  talk 01:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Help!
Could someone help with this template at Template:Ann Hui. Somehow I couldn't get it right. DORC (talk) 07:06, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean like this? Svick (talk) 09:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! DORC (talk) 12:21, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Template:GeneralPhysics
The view-talk-edit buttons on Template:GeneralPhysics are broken. Can someone good at templates fix it? --Cybercobra (talk) 21:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * by adding  parameter to Template:PhysicsNavigation. Svick (talk) 00:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Cybercobra (talk) 01:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:WPCouncilRec
Template:WPCouncilRec has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. 98.71.198.77 (talk) 00:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Template for Basketball team roster
Hello! I'm in this situation: I want to create a template for basketball team rosters of Liga Pilipinas, a regional league in the Philippines, but the only templates available are for PBA rosters, and I do not have any idea or clue about creating templates. Now my questions are: What should I do now, and How do I create a template... Please I need your help... Thank you very much!! BULARAN (talk) 03:32, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

TfD of Template:Go
There is currently a TfD for go at WP:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2009_September_8. Any comments on the TfD would be useful. --Cyber cobra (talk) 03:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Convert linking to Newton
If a template guru could fix convert so that it links to newton (unit) instead of newton (a disam page), that's be great. --Cyber cobra (talk) 07:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ by Closedmouth with this edit. Svick (talk) 10:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Editintro documentation
Hello. As you all probably know, it's currently not possible to use the noinclude tags if a template is used as an editintro. However, I think that they all should have documentation, categories and interwikis to make them understandable and accessable via the categories. Thus, I've created editintro documentation with which we could put documentation and other text on the page, but without showing the documentation when editing. What do you think of this? Would it be ok for the WikiProject to use this template? Let me know. Thank you. --The Evil IP address (talk) 20:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, sounds like this could be quite useful, though you may want to consider transcluding this bit of documentation to it or linking to this page as they give a lot of useful infomation on using editnotices. Also, did you mean, "we could put documentation and other text on the page, but without showing the documentation when transcluding onto the edit page"? As at the moment it sounds like you want to hide the documentation when editing the editintro, which is pretty much second nature to transclusion. Hope this helps.     20:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the template is actually only a "noinclude" with parser functions, as the usual putting into noinclude tags doesn't work if we use the template as an editintro. So, if you put the template on BLP editintro, then the documentation will only be shown on the page Template:BLP editintro, but not on any other page (random example). What you said about the documentation, I've added a link to the /doc, if there's anything else, I can do this as well. --The Evil IP address (talk) 14:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, it seems OK at the moment, but you might want to test it out first. If it works, then I think you should be able replace " documentation " with "Editintro documentation" on any template, transclude the template and have the documentation not show up on the transclusion. Hope this helps.     18:10, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Images
There are many pages that are in need of mages (Image(s) Required) or Image needs Improvement. Is there a template for this/these?  Piandao  22:22, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean something like ? Svick (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

making a table navbox-like?
I'm working on a template (User:Cybercobra/Info units) and want to make it more navbox-like, but I don't know how. How would I add autocollapsing, add show/hide buttons, and make it centered on the page? Any hints/pointers appreciated. Thanks. --Cyber cobra (talk) 21:37, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * To make the table collapsible, just add  to your table (you will probably also want to float the navbar to the left and set the table width because of this). To center it, surround the table in , but be aware that table beginning  has to be on a new line. Svick (talk) 22:14, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Labelled Maps style
Which format should be used for labeling maps? Is it the Image Label begin and end like Missouri County Labelled Map or the imagemap css like Alabama County Labelled Map? --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 07:06, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Metadata
This is a new Project based on something done on dewiki. It is currently being roughly translated but it sounds like a worthwhile project that could use the expertise of the template designers.↔NMajdan •talk 19:27, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Conferences and Exhibitions
Would someone be able to add an image size parameter in the Infobox Conferences and Exhibitions? --Blargh29 (talk) 15:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the template so that it uses and has also new   parameter. But then I realized that it should probably be moved to, because both templates are almost the same, the latter is used on much more pages and is more general. It misses some parameters and should be rewritten ( is better than hard-coded table), but admin-move would solve that. Svick (talk) 16:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The infobox is now redirect to, that is more general and more used. It has now the  parameter. Svick (talk) 17:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You're the best!--Blargh29 (talk) 17:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Newbie stuck at basic parsing...
I am creating Template:Bioprotocols but can't figure out how to parse, what I want to do is really simple (I think) but I do not know how to do it.. Could someone help? Thanks --Squidonius (talk) 16:13, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi there, is it the "#if" parser function that you're struggling with? Also, what are the site pages in question? Thanks.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    311° 16' 15" NET    20:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * the template is Template:Bioprotocols, so I am planning to have the synthax for it (bioprotocols|2|3|4|5|6|7) so it displays

but it is my first template with parameters and so what I get is jsut a mess every time I try. I think I do not even need an if (unless they are left blank). thanks --Squidonius (talk) 10:52, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * [ ]
 * [ ]
 * [ ]
 * [ ]
 * I was testing it in show preview which would not work... so now I have it working partially, I just need to figure out how to not show (((5))) if no parameter is give.--Squidonius (talk) 11:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think I see now what you're after. I've made a few tweaks so hopefully it's now fixed as it seems to be working as required at these two pages. Hope this helps.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    307° 29' 45" NET    20:29, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Article-specific templates?
Is it desirable/acceptable to create article-specific templates, and if so, how is that done?

Background: I'm aware of a couple articles with multi-column tables that would benefit from using templates to construct each row. The articles are not related and the tables are not the same structure, so the same templates would not be used in both articles. The only similarity is that an article-specific template to create a row in the table would simplify the markup and make it easier for editors who are not comfortable with table markup to edit the content. Also, when monitoring changes to such pages, the templates would make it easier to tell what was changed. (As it stands now, a diff for the revision doesn't show enough context because a single row of the table spans 8 or 10 lines of wikitext.)

It's unlikely that the templates would be useful anywhere except on the specific article for which they'd be created.

I suppose that such templates could be created in the template namespace with names that indicate their usage, but I wondered:
 * 1) Is this something that should be done?
 * 2) Is the template namespace the right place for such templates, and if not, should they be implemented as subpages of the articles, or some other way?

&mdash; John Cardinal (talk) 00:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that this is acceptable (Help:Template specifically encourages this) and these templates should definitely go into the Template namespace. Also, aren't there articles about similar subjects, that could use the same templates? Svick (talk) 01:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose it's possible that other articles might use the templates, but it's not likely. Thanks for the input. &mdash; John Cardinal (talk) 02:15, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Broken template
is broken, possibly because of problems with its use of. The template, used in articles such as Alton Brown and Julia Child, has parameters called television and awards which as of today display labels but not contents. Could someone take a look at this problem? Here are the versions that prompted this request: Thanks in advance for looking into this. 72.244.206.77 (talk) 21:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC).
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Julia_Child&oldid=318133555
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alton_Brown&oldid=318133948
 * I think that the parameters work as they were meant to: their content is collapsed by default, so you see only the label and "[show]" link, to show it (if you have JavaScript turned on). Svick (talk) 23:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I came here looking into what I thought was a problem with, but which is really a feature of collapsible lists. The philospher infobox also uses for two lists called influences and influenced ; the contents of those two fields are only accessible if javascript is on, as  Svick points out.

Why must collapsible lists work this way? If javascript is off, still works, simply by making "show" the default. Shouldn't collapsible list work that way too? Right now we have the worst case approach: not only are the items not visible, but there's no indication given that the items are actually hidden. Thanks. 67.100.126.103 (talk) 02:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, that's not what I meant. I meant (and thought that is the case) that the list is shown to users without JS. But now I looked into it and both and  were written badly, so that the list really didn't show up to those users (the lists were hidden by CSS rule). I fixed both of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if more templates would still be this way, so, if you find more, please fix them yourself by removing   from 's   parameter, or report it here. Svick (talk) 03:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Need some help with a less-than-basic template
I'm trying to construct Template:Southern Ontario Nav to replace the current text based navigation template. Looking for some assistance in making it pretty and workable. Any help would be very much appreciated. Cheers,  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  01:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Need someone to fix a complex template used in >400 articles

 * Cross-posted at the help desk

I noticed Template:Infobox Dotcom company was not working correctly at Tagged: a bunch of parameters that were included in the wikitext were not visible in the article itself, and the word "Headquarters" was showing in the infobox in the article but had not been included in the infobox's wikitext. So I went to Template:Infobox Dotcom company and noticed the word "Headquarters" floating mysteriously near the top of the page, as should be visible in this older version of that page. In a crude attempt to fix the problem, I deleted the text associated with the Headquarters parameter. This removed the floating "Headquarters" both on the template page and at Tagged, but the parameters that weren't showing in the article before are still not showing. The problem is not browser-specific as it occurs with Firefox or Internet Explorer.Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 05:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The infobox in the articles uses author which does not exist in the template. launch date should be launch_date and current status should be current_status. Looks like the parameters that create the Headquarters field are not optional. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:29, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Gadget850. Tagged looks to be all fixed, but there's still some kind of problem with the template itself though – do you see "Headquarters" written in a grey box above the documentation at Template:Infobox Dotcom company? This disappeared with my edit to the template but your reversion brought it back. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 12:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * That means that the parameters that define the field are not optional. I have updated the documentation. If you feel that Headquarters should be optional, discuss it on the template talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh I see now – the word is part of an example of what the template should look like, and is the only word that shows in the example because everything else is optional. Great, thanks for your help. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 13:10, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

New templates required for Strategy games
For those that are interest. Noticed that WikiProject Strategy games has a request out to SunCreator (talk) 13:27, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you think anyone would use them? The wikiproject is marked historical and that to-do list hasn't been edited for more than a year before your recent edit. Svick (talk) 22:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I checked some fo the participants and about 1/3 are still active, 1/3 are sometimes active and 1/3 are no longer active. Would suggest asking on the project page if your unsure. If you like making templates you most likely want to do it for the fun of it maybe. SunCreator (talk) 22:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

help with infobox-navbox interaction
On Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck, there's a large gap of whitespace between the "Popularity abroad" and "Styles" sections. The infobox and navbox are currently in a wikitable for layout purposes. Removing the table causes the 2 templates to appear side-by-side, which is not desirable. However, if the order of the templates is reversed, they stack fine, but obviously we don't want the infobox to be on the bottom like that. Is there any way to fix the template(s) so they stack when placed in the right order, thus getting rid of the aforementioned empty space and kludgey use of a wikitable? --Cyber cobra (talk) 01:44, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I fixed, so that it would show under the infobox even if the table wasn't used. But that table servers another purpose – to fix position of section edit links. I also moved the that was causing the big gap to a position before References section, because two-column reference lists don't look good when there is some floated element right of them. Svick (talk) 02:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! With FixBunching applied it works fine even without the table. --Cyber cobra (talk) 02:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Templates that auto-categorize
Feedback wanted from anyone interested in template programming and categorization.

Some templates add categories to the pages they are used on. This unfortunately also means they usually add categories to pages where they are only tested or demonstrated. So we have a how-to guide about how to avoid this problem. And some templates also need to use different categories in different namespaces, which can be tricky to do. So now we have made a meta-template that will make it much easier to handle categorization in templates. Here's the relevant links:


 * cat handler – The new template. We'd like some feedback on this template and its documentation before we deploy it. Comments and questions are very welcome on its talk page.
 * Category suppression – The how-to guide. There's a discussion on its talk page about which parameters we should standardise for category suppression, more comments would be welcome there. By the way, some of the methods in that guide will probably become outdated once we deploy the above template.
 * WikiProject Category Suppression – Personally I think a WikiProject for only category suppression is a bit overkill, but the project is going to widen its scope so perhaps it is okay. See its talk page.

Oh, and please don't start a discussion here, instead use the talk pages of the above pages.

--David Göthberg (talk) 01:45, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

A fix for the CategoryTOC (Non-Latin) tempate
I just noticed a problem with Template:CategoryTOC (Non-Latin), as it's used on Category:Redirects from alternative languages. The 'Japanese' category also includes all the Chinese entries. This is in part unavoidable, as it sorts by character Unicode, and Japanese Kanji, simplified and traditional Chinese are all mixed up in the CJK Unified Ideographs.

I've come up with I think an improvement, Template:CategoryTOC (Non-Latin)/sandbox, which makes it clearer where the Chinese redirects starts but that there are Japanese ones mixed in there. To test it edit the category, add "/sandbox" to the category and preview the change. It seems to work as expected - not perfectly but it never will be given the way Unicode handles Japanese and Chinese and the miscellany that is the category that uses this template.

There are a couple of other changes that could in theory be made: add Katakana as well as Hirigana so all Japanese Kana are represented, and add (Chinese character) radicals to create an index. But there are I think too few Katakana entries, and 214 i.e. too many radicals, unless they were grouped. Thoughts? JohnBlackburne (talk) 21:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Template:2009 flu pandemic menu
Can anyone figure out where the random "1" and period in the rightmost cell of the "Worldwide (total)" row of 2009 flu pandemic menu is coming from? It shouldn't be there and I don't see what's causing it. --Cyber cobra (talk) 05:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For that matter, anyone know how to increase the spacing between the template and the lede text on 2009 flu pandemic? --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 05:58, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The digit and period are part of the reference which appears in the proper place in the article. The layout of the article could do with fixing - the template and info box together don't leave much room for text if your browser window is narrow. If they were images it would be against MOS:IMAGES, but I don't know if that or what else applies to text boxes. JohnBlackburne (talk) 12:25, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I moved the template to Template:2009 flu pandemic data (it wasn't any menu) and changed it so that it floats right. Svick (talk) 16:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Navboxes on non-linked articles
I think that a navbox should be included in an article for which the navbox has a link, and should not be included in other articles. For example, this version of the article "Svingin' with Svend" has a David Grisman navbox, which has a link to the "Svingin' with Svend" article, and a Jazz navbox, which does not have a link to the article. In my opinion the Jazz navbox should be removed from the article. Navigation templates says, "A navigation template, navbox or topicbox is a grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles." The idea is that you can use a navbox to easily navigate within a specific set of related articles. In this example, the Jazz navbox does not serve that purpose, even though "Svingin' with Svend" is a jazz album. Does anyone either agree or disagree with this informal guideline? Thanks. — Mudwater (Talk) 02:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I have no opinion on the specific example you gave. In general, however, I don't think we should implement a rule where only articles included in a navbox can use the navbox. There are cases where there are too many related articles to include in the navbox, and so the navbox is restricted to the most popular and/or most useful articles. &mdash; John Cardinal (talk) 03:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose - My oppinion is, that if an article is for example about jazz music, then the jazz navbox should be included in the article for people to easily navigate through genre, even if the navbox itself doesn's have a link to the specific article. Tomiwoj (talk) 10:06, 28 November 2009.


 * Oppose - Unnecessary WP:CREEP. Good judgment and consensus, not a blanket ban, are needed to decide whether a given navbox belongs on a given article or not. It's infeasible in many cases to include every single article in a navbox on that topic, yet the navbox is still useful for finding related articles; obviously there's a limit though, but it's quite hard to find a blanket definition for that limit for all navboxes/articles. --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 05:55, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Request for input by editors on proposed template
I have been running what amounts to a one-man task force on Community Colleges in Illinois, which has articles that tend to be under developed. My goal is to get them half of them Good Article Status over the next 12 months. As a part of this, I have designed a few samples of a proposed Footer Template of Illinois Community Colleges to accompany the articles that it applies to.

I would like to gather as much opinion as possible on which of the three samples proposed would be best and fit best. I am looking to be thorough and detailed, without cluttering the list. Please take the time to go to the page and review the three samples and vote on the Talk Page which of the three would be best. Please feel free to offer suggestions on technical issues, or content you can think of. IThis is my first template and I want to make sure it will last and helps readers. IlliniGradResearch (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Have not seen a template that links from the heading/side heading into a category before. Is this intended for final version? Set 3 is simple and best. Disclaimer, I have no understanding of the organisational structure of the Public Community Colleges in Illinois and if I did maybe would more go with how it's logically perceived. SunCreator (talk) 00:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, this isnt the final version. Would it be best to leave out the side links? The three ways its currently arranged is the manner in which they are often considered in the state based on their organizational structure.  IlliniGradResearch (talk) 02:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Making a template dependent on available fonts
Is it possible to get the condition whether certain fonts exist? Actually, what we need to know is whether a certain character will be displayed correctly. (This question came up at Talk:International Phonetic Alphabet.) &mdash; Sebastian 16:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, if the reader has a font which supports the proper symbol (mathematical angle brackets), we'd like to display that, and if not, we'd like to display a graphic substitute (guillemets or greater/less than signs). kwami (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Anyone here to respond? kwami (talk) 22:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure this can't be detected from the server-side. It could be maybe done using some ugly JavaScript hack similar to this, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be worth the effort. Svick (talk) 23:38, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your reply. Actually, I don't find the script ugly (except for the names used); getting that functionality in some 40 LOC is quite elegant. But I think I see what you mean, it is of course not 100% reliable, because two fonts may coincidentally have the same size. &mdash; Sebastian 05:58, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcome English/Spanish Template
The Spanish language-specific welcome template has a bit of a quirk to it... It's located here and the rest of them are located here. It appears that all of them sign except the Spanish one? It prompts for your name to add a link to your talk page near the end, but, it doesn't actually sign for you. And if you just plonk your signature after it.. Well, it just turns it into a boxed version of your signature and that's not pretty. I'd fix it myself but I'm not too sure of what I'm doing in the template department (I tried, and it didn't seem to work, so I reverted before it screwed anything up). Would anyone be able to fix it so that it signs automatically within the template? It seems all the other language templates do already. Thanks! Tehae (talk) 07:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    243° 56' 15" NET    16:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops, it seems I clashed with Svick.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    244° 27' 44" NET    16:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Directory
There should be some sort of template Directory. Have every userbox, template, etc be "registered" and put into the directory. Qwertyfish11 (talk) 22:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean something like and ? Svick (talk) 22:46, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

New template
Progress meter

I've been working on this for about three days, and it is now done. Please note that I did most of the initial work on test-wiki. That aside, when I was creating this template, I was not aware of others such as Template:Progress bar or Template:Progress, or others. However, looking at the code, they are not a nearly customizable as the one I have created. I just hope that it can be useful.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs 03:26, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Random question
I'm working on a portal with four sub-areas, and I'd like the main page of the portal to randomly pick selected articles from the four sub-areas to display in the "Selected works" box. Is there a way to do this by using rand so I don't have to have a lot of duplication on the portal pages? Thanks! ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I found a workaround using redirects. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:WikiProject Templates
Template:WikiProject Templates has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —  SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 11:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Lexortest
I've discovered this template recently, and I'm curious — if it were renamed, would it be a useful template? Or is it too close to Details to be useful? Nyttend (talk) 22:22, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it's an interesting one, but I'd have to go with no, it wouldn't be that useful. It's only been linked to five times, only one of those five is a transclusion and the wording seems a bit awkward; "see the main article" seems a bit vague. The details template does a much better job and also has more options.  Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas   340° 9' 30" NET   22:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Download All Templates
I've been trying to get a copy of all Wikipedia Templates for a Wiki site of my own for about three weeks now with nothing to show for it. I've been all over the web, visited the download.wikimedia.org page, everything. Whenever I get to a link that is supposed to provide me with the file that I can then upload to my site to gain the templating, I get errors. It doesn't matter which computer I use (workstation @ work, workstation @ home, laptop @ wherever) I cannot get a copy of the templates to download. Is there someplace I could go that would walk me through the process on a kindergarten level of explanation? Quando Omni Flunkis Moritati&lt;br /&gt;( When all else fails, play dead ) (talk) 17:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The first things that come to mind here are these two pages, which are generally used for transferring pages across wikis. You will need extra permissions as outlined here, but if it's your own wiki I'm assuming you already have these right. If this doesn't help, then I recommend you enquire this at the help desk. Apparently, there is no question related to using Wikipedia that they can't answer! Hope this helps.  Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas   279° 6' 15" NET   18:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Template documentation
We are planning to do some changes to the documentation template. (That's the template used to create the green doc boxes on template pages.) We are planning to add (create) links for the /sandbox and /testcases pages when they don't exist. And we are perhaps going to move the sandbox and testcases links and the "This documentation is transcluded from..." line to a small box below the big doc box, instead of as now inside at the top of the big doc box. See more about this and discuss it at Template talk:Documentation.

--David Göthberg (talk) 07:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

HTML comments
Various template doc pages include comments in the example code that users copy/paste into articles. So, for example, Infobox_album includes the comment, and that comment is in thousands of articles where the template is used. Presumably, the comments are intended to help inexperienced editors find the documentation for the template. This doesn't seem effective to me: it's unlikely newbies will know how to follow the instructions, and experienced editors know how to find the help page for a template. It would be a little better if the comment had a clickable link, but even with that, I think it's a bad idea to clutter the article wikicode with such comments. We should help newbies find the documentation page for any template rather than randomly sprinkling HTML comments into the text for some templates and hoping they figure it out from there.

Perhaps we can modify the edit page to include instructions for how to find the documentation for any template. As it is, the edit page includes a list of links to transcluded pages, but I don't think many new editors will understand the purpose of the list or the prefix for it ("Pages transcluded onto the current version of this page:").

At minimum, we should change that prefix. We should also consider some other change to the edit page to help new editors understand where they can find the documentation for templates.

Should we change the prefix? If so, where should that be discussed/proposed? — John Cardinal (talk) 16:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, template documentation should be in the green doc box on the template page, not on the WikiProject page. Of course, the template page can then have links to the WikiProject page for more information. So you are right, that HTML comment is weird. You should probably bring that up for discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums.
 * Regarding the text "Pages transcluded onto the current version of this page" on the edit pages: That interface message is stored in MediaWiki:Templatesused. You can discuss changes to it on its talkpage. Note that such talkpages are not watched by many users, so don't forget to announce the discussion at MediaWiki messages to bring in more users to the discussion. If you don't know which MediaWiki page holds a text you want to change, then you can ask at MediaWiki messages. That page also has a box at its top explaining how to find such messages.
 * I am now watching MediaWiki talk:Templatesused, so I am waiting for your suggestions for improvements of that interface message! :))
 * --David Göthberg (talk) 01:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I had already started a discussion on the Template talk:Infobox_album page, but so far the other editors think the HTML comment is useful. I think the message will probably be changed to point to the template page directly, and that's an improvement, but I am against the HTML comments altogether.
 * I have now started a thread at MediaWiki talk:Templatesused and also added a link on MediaWiki messages. Thanks for your help and advice! — John Cardinal (talk) 04:17, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Template documentation box width issue on Internet Explorer
There is an ongoing discussion regarding a discrepancy (confirmed on IE7 and IE8) in the width of the green template documentation boxes on certain templates. Please see Village pump (technical)/Archive 132. Comments and suggestions are most welcome. Thank you, -- Black Falcon (talk) 06:07, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

experimenting with a cool new template, down arrow
Please discuss at this  thread at the village pump. If you like it, please start using it. Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 08:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

where to list this template?
I whipped up this template a while ago - inbrief - for displaying material side-by-side in discussions. I'd like to post it at one of the pages under wp:templates but I can't for the life of me figure out where it should go. any suggestions? -- Ludwigs 2 01:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Infobox headings: 'above' or 'title' position?
Please see centralised discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Your contributions will be welcome there. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:36, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Template Listen: avoiding nested tables
Could someone kindly check my logic - and wiki mark-up - at Template talk:Listen? Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Template development
Posted request to aid development of template which may be useful to other IMAGE patrollers at the Village Pump. Comments and input at the development page and associated Talk Page most welcome. --Haruth (talk) 04:30, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Safesubst
I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen any announcement of the new safesubst:  keyword yet. Safesubst allows building templates that both transclude and substitute cleanly without the need for any |subst=subst: parameters – they just work. For example, after file title, templates using it can be  Safesubst: behaves like subst: in substitutions, but is simply ignored during transclusions. Theoretically, you could just place it in front of every template transclusion, but that would make it expand in the PST phase, so you'll still have to disguise it. I for one am adopting instead of  safesubst:  for that purpose, simply because it's shorter (although the additional curly braces can make it more confusing). Amalthea 10:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See also ifsubst and issubst. I also note that one can build a template now that refuses to substitute:  Amalthea  12:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello
Was wondering if i could get a few of you here to comment on an going talk about hiding links in templates...For more info pls see here---> Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board .........Moxy (talk) 19:01, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * IMO links should be visible not black. On a related topic why are they templates collapsed. Today I edited Air_pollution_in_British_Columbia and I thought it would be fine if the end of pages template got expanded. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you post this here -->Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board ... :) Moxy (talk) 01:55, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Template requests
Hi! Is there a place to ask for the creation of templates? Is it here? bamse (talk) 11:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * See Requested templates. Robert Skyhawk (T C B) 17:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. bamse (talk) 20:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion re template naming
Hi. It seems to me that there's three types of template that regularly appear in articles: navboxes, infoboxes and sideboxes (or "sidebars"). They do not, however, seem to be named in a consistent way and I note that their organization into categories also appears to be inconsistent, perhaps as a consequence. How about, therefore, (re)naming them:


 * "Navbox:N", i.e. Template:Navbox:N, instead of just "N"
 * e.g. Template:Atmospheres becomes "Template:Navbox:Atmospheres";
 * "Infobox:N", i.e. Template:Infobox:N, instead of "Infobox n" or just "N"
 * e.g. Template:Infobox musical artist becomes "Template:Infobox:Musical artist";
 * "Sidebox:N", i.e. Template:Sidebox:N, instead of just "N" or "N sidebar"
 * e.g. Template:Augustine becomes "Template:Sidebox:Augustine", or Template:Criticism of Islam sidebar becomes "Template:Sidebox:Criticism of Islam", etc.

Hopefully, this would make these templates' naming consistent and hence their organisation easier. Renaming them could be achieved using AWB or perhaps a bot. (Re)categorising them could also be performed by a bot. Such a bot could also rename/recategorise new templates that use the Navbox, Infobox or Sidebox (currently Sidebar) metatemplates but which had not been named following the pattern above. David Kernow (talk) 16:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Consistent naming seems like a good idea, but I think more natural naming scheme is better. E.g. what is already used for infoboxes – almost all infoboxes are currently called “Infobox X”. Introducing consistent naming to navboxes and sidebars would be good, but your proposal seems too technical to me. Svick (talk) 17:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your prompt response. "Infobox lowercase-name" seems a slightly odd format to me, as if the name is trying to be "Infobox:Sentence-cased-name-like-other-templates". In other words, "Template:Type:Name" continues the hierarchy and so seems more natural to me. Ideally, perhaps, I think new template-spaces called "Navbox:", "Infobox:" and "Sidebox:" (instead of "Template:Navbox:", etc) would be even better, but I imagine that would be a technical challenge. If you're concerned that the colon within the new-style names would cause a problem, I've seen it being used within names here already -- unless the technical difficulty you have in mind is something else..? David Kernow (talk) 17:34, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't mean to say it would cause some technical problem (I'm pretty sure it wouldn't). Just that for ordinary users, typing would be probably more natural than . Hmm, I just realized there is a small technical problem with your proposal: capitalization. All those are correct: ,   or , but if there was Template:Infobox:Musical artist, you could write  or , but not . Svick (talk) 17:50, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I see what you're saying about e.g. "Template:Atmospheres navbox", although, by the same token, you could say that "Atmospheres navbox template" is even more natural. But, as "Template:" and so I'd say "Template:Navbox:" indicate, you'd lose the hierarchy that Wikipedia needs to remain relatively easy to organise. Re the capitalisation problem, Template:Infobox Musical artist, Template:infobox Musical artist and Template:infobox musical artist all seem to work, so I imagine "Template:Infobox:Musical artist", "Template:infobox:Musical artist" and "Template:infobox:musical artist" (and probably "template:infobox:musical artist") would all work as well. (Or are you referring to the tlc template? If so, I guess that would need to be amended.) why would not work? Sorry if I'm missing something. David Kernow (talk) 19:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Template:Infobox Musical artist works, because it's a redirect. If you created just  and no redirects, then   wouldn't work. So either you would have to stick with one capitalization, or create a redirect whenever you create an infobox.
 * I think that writing “Atmospheres navbox” (no need to add “template”, that's implied by “navbox”) is the most natural. But that's exactly what you would write, if navboxes were named in the way I proposed: (I use the template  to show the code, I'm not talking about it at all.) The namespace   is there to differentiate from article content, I think we don't need to add more hierarchy to names, that's what categories are for. (I'm not saying that naming shouldn't be consistent, just that it shouldn't be hierarchical.) If I take your idea only little further, we could have names like   and that feels very awkward. Svick (talk) 21:47, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your clarifications. I think I now agree with you. So, it looks like "Template:X navbox", "Template:X infobox" and "Template:X sidebox". "Template:X" would be reserved for all other templates, i.e. those that don't use Navboxes, Infobox, es (Sidebars renamed) and table classes "navbox" and "infobox". (Is there a "sidebox" or "sidebar" class? Haven't noticed one yet.)
 * If so, I think that would need a bot looking around for (new) templates that use the Navbox, Infobox and Sidebox metatemplates or table classes and renaming them and their transclusions in articles accordingly. I remember that there was a bot request page here somewhere, so I could go there and make this request (and include a link to this thread). What do you think? If there's anyone else reading this thread, what do they think? David Kernow (talk) 18:18, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * First, I'm pretty sure that whatever decision we two reach here (assuming nobody else joins us) is not sufficient to move thousands of templates. That would require much wider consensus. We could probably use WP:RfC to get the attention of more people. If the consensus is reached after that, we can request the bot at Bot requests.
 * Second, uses CSS class  . I haven't seen sidebar that would use this class directly, but lots of them use the   class (e.g., that one isn't even categorized as a sidebar).
 * Third, infoboxes already have consistent naming scheme: “Infobox X” (this is even a part of MoS) and for some reason I like that slightly more than “X infobox”. I'm not sure about this.
 * Svick (talk) 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:RfC sounds a good idea. As regards the vertical-navbox class, I guess that would need to be added to a bot's detection routine and associated with "X sidebox". "Infobox X" -- sorry, "Infobox x" -- may be consistent and established, but, if the other types are to become "X navbox" and "X sidebox" rather than "Navbox:X" or "Sidebox:X" (with or without the colon), then "X infobox" it should be. (At least those template names should be easy for a bot to spot and update.) Shall I add a request to RfC? David Kernow (talk) 08:06, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok. Yeah, I think you should create the RfC. Also Template talk:Infobox, Template talk:Navbox and Template talk:Sidebar should be notified about this. Svick (talk) 11:00, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've just tried to use the rfctag template as described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RfC#Request_comment_through_talk_pages at the talk pages you suggest, so hope it works out correctly. 212.84.103.144 (talk) 06:16, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How many RfCs do we need? With them in 3 locations, it will be hard to judge consensus since all three talk pages are proposing the exact same thing. I suggest that there only be one RFC here, and that the RfCs on those pages be switched to just generic notices to the discussion here.  Imzadi  1979   →   06:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Biological templates for external links
Feel free to join discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of life. It is about templates for all animals and plants. Its deal not only with design, but also with purpose and strategy. Your comments and advices are welcomed. --Snek01 (talk) 10:04, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Infobox paranormal place
Something's causing it [Infobox paranormal place] to have vertical padding and not be flush with the top of pages it's used on. --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 10:00, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

RfC re template naming
It seems to me that there's three types of template that regularly appear in articles: navboxes, infoboxes and sideboxes (or "sidebars"). They do not, however, seem to be named in a consistent way and I note that their organization into categories also appears to be inconsistent, perhaps as a consequence. I therefore propose that a bot (re)names each template that uses a Navbox metatemplate or the navbox table class as "X navbox", each template that uses the Infobox metatemplate or the infobox table class as "X infobox" and each template that uses a Sidebar metatemplate or the navbox-vertical table class as "X sidebox" (and the Sidebar metatemplates as Sidebox metatemplates). I suspect that the navbox-based templates significantly outnumber the infobox and sidebox templates, so it might be better if they remain named simply as "X". 212.84.103.144 (talk) 06:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC) PS Some initial discussion is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Templates#Suggestion_re_template_naming. 212.84.103.144 (talk) 06:18, 26 June 2010 (UTC) m


 * You should advertise this at WP:VPR and Template:cent. And if you can identify any major WikiProjects that would be affected by this, notify them too. If someone brought this to WP:BRFA without that level of advertising, I would tag it . Anomie⚔ 15:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just added it at WP:VPR and requested its addition to Template:cent on Template:cent's discussion page. How would I identify which major WikiProjects should be notified? Thanks, 212.84.103.144 (talk) 18:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, as far as infoboxes go, from a recent project I've been helping, I've noticed that not all infoboxes use the infobox metatemplate. Any benefit to be had from automated renaming based on your proposed criterion won't work when many infoboxes are using direct coding in the templates. Additionally, I don't see the benefit to renaming templates to have the template "type" last. If I'm fixing an article that's incorrectly using  for a road bridge or tunnel, I'll start typing   into the search box to look for the correct infobox.  Imzadi   1979   →   22:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your feedback. Not all infoboxes use the Infobox template or infobox table-class, but I imagine most do. Even if not, it'd be a start. Svick and I discussed at the link above where a template's type should appear in its name and at first I supported the "Template:Type Name" format (in fact, "Template:Type:Name") before going with "Name Type". Now, though, I think "Template:Type:Name" is better, with the second colon meaning that names would be sentence-cased (e.g. "Template:Infobox:Musical artist") rather than lowercased as at present ("Template:Infobox musical artist") which looks a bit odd to me. So, overall, the name formats would become "Template:Navbox:[Name]", "Template:Infobox:[Name]" and "Template:Sidebox:[Name]". 212.84.103.144 (talk) 18:34, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't like the extra colon. Nowhere else do we have a similar structure. It makes it look like infobox road would then become a "subtemplate" of infobox, but not quite. It's also implying a "subnamespace" of the larger "Template:" namespace, which doesn't exist. I could support harmonizing names in general to "Template:Infobox [name]" or "Template:Navbox [name]" with "name" in lowercase unless it starts with a proper name, which matches how most infoboxes with which I've dealing are named, bringing the remainder "into the fold".  Imzadi  1979   →   19:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. I guess I'm suggesting that navboxes, infoboxes and sideboxes do seem to be subspaces, even if they're not so officially. Would creating "Navbox:", "Infobox:" and "Sidebox:" as subspaces of "Template:" be considered? 2. Having names in lowercase after "Infobox" (or "Navbox", "Sidebox"), like "Infobox musical artist", just seems odd to me. I think that's because when glancing at this format, the emphasis seems to be on the template being an infobox at the expense of what it's about. I suppose "Infobox Musical artist" would be the compromise, but, instead of all these possible fudges, I'd say just cut to the nub and make the distinction between type and name clear, i.e. either create the subspaces as above or at least include the colon between the type and the name. 212.84.103.144 (talk) 21:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, in general usage, editors tend to call Template:Infobox road by typing  because all of the parameter names are also in all lowercase. I could call the template by typing   just as well, but when you get in the habit that a template and its parameters are in lowercase, you stick with it. The reason it works, is that inside the curly brackets, the first word of the template's name after the colon doesn't need to be capitalized, just like the first word of an article title doesn't need to be capitalized in a wikilink in square brackets. Both Foo and foo work equally well. Your proposal would force infobox templates to be called with , which honestly is just strange. Remember that with templates, the "Template:" namespace is dropped when using the curly brackets to transclude it.  Imzadi   1979   →   23:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean. By the same token, though, is no less convenient -- I think -- than , but it does at least keep an English word order. If, however, your habit is shared by other people, then I guess it's only "Type name" that is acceptable ("Infobox road", "Navbox road", "Sidebox road") but at least this would mean more consistency and so, as is the point of this request, easier categorization because the template type is part of the template name. If it is to be "Type name", then, is it time to make a bot request? 212.84.98.102 (talk) 17:55, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I would say that this is the prevailing habit that's developed over time. By the same token, you'll need a wider consensus to implement change than the two of us having a discussion someplace. Otherwise, there will be backlash from affected parts of the wider community, and you won't have a wide range of editors' opinions to base the change on. Sweeping changes of this sort need sweeping consensus. Plus as I mentioned, there are many, many templates that don't use the metatemplates. In the case of highway-related infoboxes, there have been at least 41 different templates, not including the already deleted variations of for different states in the US. About 20 of those 41 templates use the name "routebox", usually at the end, and none of them use the  metatemplate except  . Your proposal wouldn't even fix that situation by harmonizing the naming structure, since the bot would not even look for those templates. I can't support the proposal at this time, even though I agree with the principles behind it.  Imzadi   1979   →   18:14, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I can imagine there are many infoboxes that don't use the Infobox template or table, navboxes that don't use the Navbox templates or table, etc. But my impression so far is that there are many that do, so it seems worthwhile to try to establish more consistency, especially for the sake of categorization and for the benefit of templates yet to be created and named. That's what's grabbed my attention here and why I might sign up and become involved. I realize that a bot couldn't handle everything, even whole groups of templates such as the "routeboxes" you mention, but my impression is that there is a lot out there that a bot could handle relatively easily. For instance, there seems to be many more navboxes than infoboxes, so, even if a fair number of them don't use a Navbox template or table, there'll still be many (most?) that do. Those navboxes (and infoboxes and sideboxes) that aren't caught and renamed by the bot should be easier to find as they won't have been renamed. They could then either be amended to use the Navbox (or Infobox or Sidebox) templates, or, if necessary (e.g. because they're part of something more complicated) renamed manually or possibly not at all. What sort of alternative proposal would you have in mind? Right now, I can't think of one that gets into the task as much as the bot idea. 212.84.98.102 (talk) 20:23, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You'll need more opinions and discussions. Two people can not decide such a sweeping change on their own, and fully expect it to stick. I can not support this change at this time without further input from others, but I can support the principle behind the change. Get others on board first. Anything else is premature.  Imzadi  1979   →   20:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Understood. But I've now had "third thoughts" and don't think formats that put the template type before topic ("navbox road", "infobox road", "sidebox road") to be user-friendly, especially for newer users. The names "road infobox", "road navbox" and "road sidebox" seem fine to me, with a word order that makes more sense. The catch-all index "PAGENAME" could then be used for any and all templates to order them correctly in their categories. Also, as there appears to be many more navboxes than infoboxes and sideboxes, it seems sensible not to add "navbox" to so many templates' names (making navboxes, therefore, the "de facto" default type of article template). So, using say U.S. highways as an example, I'd now go with "U.S. highways" for the navbox, "U.S. highway[s] infobox" and "U.S. highway[s] sidebox". Given what you've explained -- thanks -- I guess that means I'd probably be in a minority if more than just us two were trying to form a consensus here. (This is the templates wikiproject and messages were also left at the village pump and navbox/infobox/sidebar/"Centralized discussion" template discussion pages, so maybe other folks don't mind what happens, so long as it manages to work. It's just a pity that what is working at present isn't more organized.) 212.84.98.102 (talk) 13:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, fourth thoughts. Do you think there'd be any chance of "Name" (for navboxes), "Infobox name" and "Sidebox name" being adopted officially? 212.84.98.102 (talk) 01:35, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

RfC template finance company
Dear wikiproject, I'd like to have a comment on my last template. Thank you. --Luckyz (talk) 14:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion the flags violates WP:MOSFLAG section "Do not emphasize nationality without good reason". Use country names instead. --Kslotte (talk) 15:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Read also section "Accompany flags with country names", that contain additional reasons why having flags is not a good idea. --Kslotte (talk) 15:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Use of slash in template name
Hi. Is it acceptable to have a slash in the name of a template - for example, Template:AFL/VFL Brownlow Medal winners? - Richard Cavell (talk) 12:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that template names with slashes should be used only for internal subtemplates: e.g. the way uses . So, I think you should name the template differently, especially since Template:AFL exists (your template would be a subtemplate of that). Svick (talk) 12:28, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Subpages are enabled for template space, so you would be creating a subtemplate. Since AFL exists, any subpages should be used by the main template. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:17, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Template for Pakistan Super League
Hi, Sorry to keep disturbing you. But is it possible that you could help me create a template page. Basically there is a new cricket league in Pakistan called the Pakistan Super League. I've added the logos for most of the teams i.e. Lahore Eagles, Islamabad Leopards etc. and have provided the image licensicing as well. So basically what I want know is the use of a template I'm trying to make called Template:Cr-PSL and I'm trying to model that used by the Indian Premier League called Template:Cr-IPL. So really I need someone to help me create this template.

So what do you have to do. Well you have to get a team called from the Pakistan Super League for example Lahore Eagles and use there logo (in the team article) and place it on the Template:Cr-PSL where we're basically going to make a flag icon the Lahore Eagles let's say we are going to use the namespace "Cr-LL" or something like that to show there flagicon to help you achieve this. TO do this you might want to structure it around a this template Template:Cr-IPL can you do one example of the Lahore Eagles and show me how to do it. I will the do the rest of this icons.

Any help will be appreciated Wiki id2  (talk)  11:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Template Duration - help, please
I need expert template help on Duration, please - the requirements are in the documentation and talk page but'll gladly answer any questions you may have. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

RfC on Microformats
FYI there's an RfC currently happening here that may be of interest. OrangeDog  (τ • ε) 20:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Internationalization and refactoring of templates?
Hi all, I'm a (very) newbie to template editing stuff, and I decide to create a version of Template:compact_periodic_element for Ido wikipedia, thinking to localize everything, not merely doing the simpleminded renaming names like "Helio" for He, etc., but to actually change those things like changing "v - d - e" to reflect the initials of some Ido words, and even rename the template names themselves, like renaming Template:pad to Shablono:pado (shablono is Ido for template, by the way), for example, so an Ido user will be able to understand and edit it as such. I soon discover that I am facing quite a number of obstacles, which I shall list:
 * I discover there are many, many transclusions required to support Template:compact_periodic_elements, which I may have to copy much, if not everything, over to Ido wikipedia. That means maintenance headache.
 * There is no easy way to keep track of various names if I change names, so a mechanism to support finer grained association will be a help, I think. So, if the master template get changed, I would be able to see what get changed in the associated subtemplates (e.g. I have "pado" currently mapped to "pad", say, and the master template coder decides to change "pad" to "smartpad", say, then I would notice the change and take care of that pronto.)
 * If a chemical element get renamed, for example, it would be nice to get notified of that and update the subtemplate. Possibly more...this escapes my mind at the moment.

I am sure you can think up of similar situation for other cases.

Anyway, I think it may be a good idea to try to factor out various concerns (see Separation of concerns for further explanation), and move some of the layout and navigation machinery away from (langcode).wikipedia.org (there are several such periodic table templates out there) and into some other area, maybe "support.wikipedia.org"...I just don't know. Another way is to set up what I call a "subtemplate" that will associate itself with a master template and supply needed data, like mapping names and links to each chemical element symbols (something real simple, like a list of maps that looks something like "Hg->Merkurio|Merkurio" (the first "Merkurio" is a link, and the second is a title) for example). Subtemplates used this way would be similar to how each wikipedia get localized. Again, I know it's more complicated, but I believe it will pay off real fast, as to create an instance out of a soup of master template and its subtemplates will give a final template and that can in turn be used to create a final presentation. I hope I'm clear enough about those issues, so, any thoughts or comments? Or maybe it is just too much to ask? TheBlueWizard (talk) 20:10, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * To get a template and all the templates it uses from one wiki to another, you can use Special:Export on one and Special:Import on the other (importing may require you to be an administrator).
 * Currently, it's impossible to use a template from another wiki, but there is a work being done on this: mw:User:Peter17/Reasonably efficient interwiki transclusion.
 * You can use the English (or whatever language the original wiki uses) names at the beginning and then rename them to the other language. This way, redirects from the old names stay behind and you can use both of them. This means that you can change the pages that use those templates slowly (or not at all), and everything works the whole time. When all renaming is done, you can delete the redirects, if you want (you can check using Special:WhatLinksHere that the original name really isn't used anywhere on your wiki).
 * Svick (talk) 12:51, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

help string substitution
I'm trying to create a template for creating external links into a specific website which uses spaces in names. something like which should return http://www.foosite.com/Hello%20World.htm. I'm used to StringFunctions, so I'd use #replace, but this doesn't seem to work in wikipedia. How should I approach this? Am I missing an obvious way to use #replace? Thanks in advance.--Muhandes (talk) 18:28, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Using mw:Help:Magic words could work. returns  . Simple substitution may not be enough, because other character than spaces have to be encoded. Svick (talk) 17:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * urlencode and anchorencode are no good, they replace spaces with + or _ and I need to replace with %20. The site is very specific, so spaces are the only thing I need to encode, I just need a way to do that. Something like what

would do. --Muhandes (talk) 18:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Merge and Move portions templates
There are various problems with these templates which I would like to correct: Affected templates: If there are no objections in principle to these changes, I suggest I prepare them as user space drafts and post here when I think they are ready, however I don't want to start on systematic updates like this if they are likely to be rejected.
 * There is no opportunity to specify the talk page on which discussion should take place. This has been a nuisance with every merge/move proposal I have so far contributed to, causing extra discussions and requiring notes on all other talk pages saying "do not reply here". I suggest a discuss= parameter, for which we would need to provide a sensible default
 * Some templates support section=y, others not. I would prefer to see this supported uniformly in all the templates
 * Update documentation accordingly to mention all parameters, provide examples and advise about adding a discussion section to the relevant talk page

What should be the default discussion page? I suggest the first-mentioned source page as that is where the history so far of the affected content is.

(update) not the split templates as they refer to new pages.

Comments please. — Mirokado (talk) 00:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * and both clearly specify the best spot: the target page's talk page. That should be the default. I think it might be good to see about combining all of the merge templates into one template, too. ··· 日本穣 ? ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 01:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well this is really weird. I look again at the documentation for the merge templates and see there is already a discuss= parameter! You are also correct about the target being default. It so happens that I was looking most closely at and  earlier on, and these both direct the discussion to the page they are transcluded onto so a change is needed in  for consistency. The documentation for both is less complete and needs to be updated to be similar to that for the move templates.
 * Now I am sensitised to the Discuss link in the box I will probably have fewer problems, however the template is often added without the creation of a talk discussion section which would provide background. A change to the documentation might improve that a bit.
 * The documentation for Split and friends seems in some respects clearer than for Merge and friends. Some harmonisation of the documentation for all these templates may be helpful. Since it is not protected we can improve that by normal editing.
 * It would be interesting to see if we can make a single template easier to use than the three separate ones... — Mirokado (talk) 02:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * While you're at it, following Help:Merging, the default talk destination should be Talk:DESTINATIONPAGE . I propose the same for split ("Split proposal" of course). You might want to consider touching mergenote as well with the same default. Also, splitnote is missing. If you do any change, make sure Help:Merging is updated. --Muhandes (talk) 07:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those suggestions. I have already added some test cases to and will start making changes, with further test cases as necessary, when convenient. Mirokado (talk) 01:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Template names with the same misspelling
This section results from a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion (permanent link here). The most relevant information is near the end of the discussion, in the short message from Black Falcon at 00:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC). I am listing some templates (I counted 97) which I am mentioning for renaming, together with the target names. In these names, the expression "clean up" (verb phrase) should be "cleanup" (noun adjunct). According to http://www.onelook.com/?w=cleanup&ls=a and http://www.onelook.com/?w=clean-up&ls=a, the solid compound word "cleanup" appears to be more common than the hyphenated compound word "clean-up".
 * Template:Monthly clean up category to Template:Monthly cleanup category
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/ to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Accuracy disputes to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Accuracy disputes
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Article sections to be split to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Article sections to be split
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles containing potentially dated statements to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles containing potentially dated statements
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles lacking in-text citations to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles lacking in-text citations
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles lacking page references to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles lacking page references
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles lacking reliable references to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles lacking reliable references
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles lacking sources to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles lacking sources
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles needing additional references to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles needing additional references
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles needing expert attention to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles needing expert attention
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles needing link rot cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles needing link rot cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles needing sections to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles needing sections
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles needing the year an event occurred to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles needing the year an event occurred
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles pruned to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles pruned
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles slanted towards recent events to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles slanted towards recent events
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles sourced by IMDB to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles sourced by IMDB
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles sourced only by IMDB to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles sourced only by IMDB
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles that may be too long to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles that may be too long
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles that may contain original research to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles that may contain original research
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles that need to be wikified to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles that need to be wikified
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles to be expanded to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles to be expanded
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles to be merged to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles to be merged
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles to be pruned to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles to be pruned
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with a promotional tone to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with a promotional tone
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with broken or outdated citations to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with broken or outdated citations
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with close paraphrasing to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with close paraphrasing
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with dead external links to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with dead external links
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with disputed statements to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with disputed statements
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with improper non-free content to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with improper non-free content
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with minor POV problems to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with minor POV problems
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with peacock terms to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with peacock terms
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with sections that need to be turned into prose to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with sections that need to be turned into prose
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with topics of unclear notability to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with topics of unclear notability
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with trivia sections to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with trivia sections
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with unsourced statements to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with unsourced statements
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Articles with weasel words to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Articles with weasel words
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Attempted de-orphan to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Attempted de-orphan
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/BLP articles lacking sources to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/BLP articles lacking sources
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Categories for discussion to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Categories for discussion
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Current events to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Current events
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Dead-end pages to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Dead-end pages
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Incomplete lists to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Incomplete lists
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/NPOV disputes to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/NPOV disputes
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Orphaned articles to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Orphaned articles
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Recently revised to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Recently revised
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Self-contradictory articles to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Self-contradictory articles
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Statements with common sense issues to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Statements with common sense issues
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Templates deprecated to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Templates deprecated
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Type/Articles containing potentially dated statements to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Type/Articles containing potentially dated statements
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Type/Articles lacking page references to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Type/Articles lacking page references
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Type/Articles with dead external links to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Type/Articles with dead external links
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Type/BLP articles lacking sources to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Type/BLP articles lacking sources
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Type/Wikipedia references cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Type/Wikipedia references cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Uncategorized to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Uncategorized
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Uncategorized stubs to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Uncategorized stubs
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Unreferenced BLPs to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Unreferenced BLPs
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Unreviewed new articles to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Unreviewed new articles
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Unreviewed new articles created via the Article Wizard to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Unreviewed new articles created via the Article Wizard
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Use British (Oxford) English to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Use British (Oxford) English
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Use British English to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Use British English
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Use dmy dates to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Use dmy dates
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Use mdy dates to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Use mdy dates
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Use ymd dates to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Use ymd dates
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/User-created public domain images to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/User-created public domain images
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/User-created public domain images without user-name to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/User-created public domain images without user-name
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Userspace drafts to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Userspace drafts
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Userspace drafts created via the Article Wizard to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Userspace drafts created via the Article Wizard
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles in need of updating to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles in need of updating
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing clarification to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing clarification
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing context to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing context
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing copy edit to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing copy edit
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing factual verification to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing factual verification
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing page number citations to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing page number citations
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing rewrite to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing rewrite
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing style editing to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles needing style editing
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles that are too technical to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles that are too technical
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles with plot summary needing attention to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles with plot summary needing attention
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia articles with possible conflicts of interest to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia articles with possible conflicts of interest
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia external links cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia external links cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia introduction cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia introduction cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia pages needing cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia pages needing cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia references cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia references cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Messages/Wikipedia spam cleanup to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Messages/Wikipedia spam cleanup
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/Type/Uncategorized to Template:Monthly cleanup category/Type/Uncategorized
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/core to Template:Monthly cleanup category/core
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/doc to Template:Monthly cleanup category/doc
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/monthname to Template:Monthly cleanup category/monthname
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/monthno to Template:Monthly cleanup category/monthno
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/name part to Template:Monthly cleanup category/name part
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/name part from December 2009 to Template:Monthly cleanup category/name part from December 2009
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/outer core to Template:Monthly cleanup category/outer core
 * Template:Monthly clean up category/to add to Template:Monthly cleanup category/to add

Incidentally, some templates seem to have meanings very similar to those of other templates, but I could be missing important subtle differences. Also, "Wikipedia articles" could be "Articles". —Wavelength (talk) 02:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "Articles needing link rot cleanup" and "Articles with dead external links"
 * "Accuracy disputes" and "Articles with disputed statements" and "NPOV disputes"
 * "Articles lacking page references" and "Wikipedia articles needing page number citations"
 * "Articles that may be too long" and "Articles to be pruned"
 * "Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases" and "Articles with weasel words"
 * "Wikipedia articles that are too technical" and "Wikipedia articles needing clarification"
 * Only Monthly cleanup category is ever seen, and that only in the wikisource of hidden categories, and that only by the bot that places it there. I'm inclined to think this is a little to much perfection, even if you agree with using the word "cleanup". Rich Farmbrough, 02:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC).


 * "Articles needing link rot cleanup" and "Articles with dead external links"
 * Link rot is actually badly named if it follows the LR template "Articles with bar URLs would be better


 * "Accuracy disputes" and "Articles with disputed statements" and "NPOV disputes"
 * These I think are distinct


 * "Articles lacking page references" and "Wikipedia articles needing page number citations"
 * Looks good


 * "Articles that may be too long" and "Articles to be pruned"
 * No, too long is physically too long. Pruned is  polite way of saying it has junk in it.


 * "Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases" and "Articles with weasel words"
 * Mmm depends why you are using the cats. If you want to do some clean-up  quickly then the "specifically marked weasel-worded phrases" are essy to find, and generally to remove (a bit of a sofixit).

Again I would say these are distinct. the former may need a technical person to simplify them, the latter maybe just a good head or a little research. Rich Farmbrough, 02:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC).
 * "Wikipedia articles that are too technical" and "Wikipedia articles needing clarification"


 * I think this discussion is well-worn, and there does not appear to be mis-spelt. Please go to WP:ENGVAR and WP:RETAIN. There is no reason to make this superficial change, which would almost certainly and unnecessarily incur the wrath of certain editors which are currently very vocally complaining about trivial edits lighting up their watchlists. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ohconfucius, please see my comments and links at User talk:Rich Farmbrough (permanent link here).
 * —Wavelength (talk) 05:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Templates starting with WP:
These could really do with making into redirects - they are just errors waiting to happen. Rich Farmbrough, 02:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC).

Can't find a really basic mathematical function template
I need a template that, given two numbers x and y, calculates (y-x)/x , as a percentage and preferably to my preferred precision. For example: yield the text "25.0%" (i.e. (10-8)/8 as a percentage with 1 digit to the right of the decimal point). Anything remotely similar would be appreciated. I looked in Category:Mathematical function templates but failed to find anything. Thanks. 72.244.204.14 (talk) 06:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Something like Percentage ? Rich Farmbrough, 12:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC).

navbox template, how complex is too complex? USRegions?
Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I just discovered USRegions and was amazed by how complicated and long it is. Looking at it left me confused in several ways. Is it normal for navigation templates to be this complex? Acceptable? Navboxes are supposed to be helpful for users; is this one? I was confused more than helped.

Some other things I found strange or confusing: The "agency" link in the title, to United States Geological Survey. The "mgmt" section name, of which the "mt" part links to United States Secretary of Homeland Security. The bolding of some links for reasons I don't see. The high island link under "physiographic" (not a region). The "ecology" section includes non-links, like "Marine Forest" (whatever that is), and a link to Mediterranean Sea, of all things. The "watershed" links, many going to the map already shown in the template. Atlantic Seaboard is linked to three times, once with the name "Atlantic Seaboard", twice piped to different text. The "continental divides" and "escarpments" sections (these are not "regions"). The "indigenous people" section (also not "regions"). The "expansion", and "Old West" sections are very confusing. Many links are to trails, expeditions, boundary surveys, pages like 1867 in the United States, 1845 in the American Old West, California Gold Rush, etc.

I'm not an editor of navigation templates and don't pay much attention to them, so I'm just posting here. Is it just me, or is this template out of control? Pfly (talk) 06:47, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * There a quite a few huge templates (eg Solar eclipses and Monty Python). Once they get above an unwieldy size, they generally either get split into smaller templates, or converted into a standalone article (eg many "lists of lists"), or just subsectioned (eg Serotonergics and British overseas territories).
 * In USRegions, I agree that the easteregg links in the ₥mgmt₥ subheader (4 links in 6 characters!) are a problem, and that the unexplained bolding is a problem. For those, and the other concerns, I'd recommend asking at the template's talkpage first, and come back here if there isn't any good feedback. HTH. -- Quiddity (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just posted there. ...that solar eclipses template is long alright, wow. Pfly (talk) 20:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Browser-dependent line wrapping issue in Film date
I've posted a question over at Template talk:Film date about an issue causing the line breaking of the template output to be different in Safari and Firefox. Is there a HTML/CSS expert here that can offer ideas for how to avoid this issue? Let's keep followups there if so. --Mepolypse (talk) 00:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I found the issue and responded on that page. – RobinHood70 talk 21:58, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Film date
After resolving the above issue, I decided to rewrite Film date altogether. I think it's working properly now, but I'd appreciate it if someone could give my version a once over ( old version is here ) and see if they can spot any issues I've missed. – RobinHood70 talk 00:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Just a quick follow-up, the new code passed every test I tried, so I've put it in place. The links above have been altered to point to the appropriate versions. – RobinHood70 talk 21:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Pie chart?
User:Gu1dry posted an idea for a simple pie chart template at Village pump (idea lab). Is this feasible?

Please reply there. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

An IP editor added new parameters for the first star of a game and the broadcasters, as shown in this diff. However, since there are many uses of this template where that information is not available, or did not exist, these new fields need to be optional. I tried making such changes myself, but am not very good at template coding. For now I've just reverted the changes, but they could be useful additions, so I was hoping one of you kind souls would be able to make those new fields optional for us. Thanks! Resolute 14:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:Wikipedia category
Template:Wikipedia category displays certain text if the parameter "parent" is specified. Would someone please make "container" an alternative parameter name (the documentation needs to be updated to mention the parameter, but (ideally) should mention "container" per Container category)? -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:07, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I just looked at the issue very quickly, but it would seem that this is an inappropriate change based on this related discussion. I'm unfamiliar with the templates as I don't edit very often, so it may be a perfectly reasonable change, I just want to be sure before I make any changes to the template. If you're certain it makes sense to make this change, could you elaborate a little more on why so we have a record of it. – RobinHood70 talk 20:31, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response.


 * I requested the change for two reasons. First, "container" is the terminology currently used by the template, per the (admittedly limited) consensus reached here. Second, in the context of categorization, "parent" has a meaning different from the one used in the template: A is said to be a parent of B if B is a subcategory of A (see Categorization).


 * It may be advisable, however, to postpone any changes until after the conclusion of these two discussions, in which a possible change in terminology is being discussed. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That sounds reasonable. Just post back to the page if it's decided that it's an appropriate change to make. I don't always check WP every day, but this article is on my watchlist, so I'll notice the reply at some point. – RobinHood70 talk 00:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll do that. Thanks! -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Country demonym navbox generators
If someone knowledgeable about how to work template coding could help fix the country demonym navbox generators, it would be greatly appreciated. At the moment, the existing country demonym navbox generators are Template:African topic, Template:Asian topic, Template:European topic, and Template:South American topic, but Template:North American topic and Template:Oceanian topic should be created as well. Template:Asian topic is currently up for deletion because it duplicates the functionality of Template:Asia topic even though that is not what it is supposed to do. The country demonym navbox generators are supposed to be the demonym counterparts of the country name navbox generators (ie. Template:Africa topic, Template:Asia topic, Template:North America topic, Template:South America topic, Template:Oceania topic, and Template:Africa topic). While the country name navbox generators create navboxes that create strings like "History of Canada" and "Culture of Iraq", the country demonym navbox generators are supposed to create navboxes that create strings like "Canadian literature" and "Iraqi cuisine". Nonetheless, the country demonym navbox generators have never worked because no one knowledgeable about the code has ever fixed them. If anyone would be willing to take on this task, it would be greatly appreciated. These navbox generators have the potential to make a substantial improvement to navigation between related articles on international topics. Neelix (talk) 13:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Template help required
There are some turtle family templates, , , , , , , , , ,  and overview. I'd like to convert them to like,  etc. Pointers on how to convert them and assistance would be welcome! Regards, SunCreator (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"basestyle" for Sidebar templates
Hi. Would someone with the know-how please add the Navbox "basestyle" option to the set of Sidebar templates, please?

Also, for the sake of consistency with the Navbox and Infobox templates, could these Sidebar templates be renamed using "Sidebox"?

213.246.119.27 (talk) 21:34, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

templatespace aliasing
A proposal has been made at Village Pump to create an alias for templatespace, and possibly for template talk space. 184.144.166.27 (talk) 04:42, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Here's a link, for convenience. – RobinHood70 talk 21:25, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Request for help: Support a "section" parameter?
I would like these two templates:


 * WikiProject style advice
 * Wikiproject notability essay

to support a "section" parameter, similar to what unref does. Is this easy? Could someone do this for me? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * They both support a "type" parameter that can be set to "section" (instead of the default "page"). Did you need them to do something more?


 * {| style="border:1px solid LightGray"


 * }
 * – RobinHood70 talk 21:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * }
 * – RobinHood70 talk 21:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * No, that's all. I've fixed the documentation to advertise this feature.  (Any others I should know about?)  WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:38, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Both follow the same general template, so they both take up to 5 unnamed parameters to put in a shortcut box on the right (e.g., ), as well as a  parameter, though that may be intentionally hidden for documentation use only. – RobinHood70 talk 02:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Adding disambiguation option to a template
Not sure how to go about doing that. Can anyone help? :Template:X-American-list-entry. Bull dog123 15:26, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * What does it mean “disambiguation option”? Svick (talk) 19:47, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand that either. What is it you want it to do, exactly? – RobinHood70 talk 20:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I mean having it so I can add "Michael Coleman" here: List_of_Irish_American_musicians ...but have it re-direct to Michael Coleman (musician). In most cases, you can just do . I'm assuming I need to add some more code to this template (:Template:X-American-list-entry) for that to work.   Bull dog123  05:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * When I went looking, I discovered that the option was already there, though I did tweak it a bit for easier use. Just add an  parameter to the list like I did to Michael Coleman's entry and you're off to the races. – RobinHood70 talk 10:54, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I owe you one, buddy. Thanks a lot. Bull dog123  23:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, glad to be of service. – RobinHood70 talk 01:13, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Help with selected transclusion
Hi, I was wondering if somebody could please see if you can assist me with the problem I posted here. Thanks Themeparkgc   Talk  03:55, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * User:Plastikspork helped me and my problem is now solved. Themeparkgc   Talk  04:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

italic titles via Canadian Supreme Court infobox
Could someone work their template-fu on Infobox SCC so that it does the italic title song-and-dance like Infobox court case does? --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 08:01, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you asking for all pages which use Infobox SCC to use italic title to italicize their title automatically? Themeparkgc   Talk  03:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added Italic title to the template is that right now? Themeparkgc   Talk  03:59, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 19:46, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

A quick request for help
I have a series of citation templates in my userspace that I subst in while writing to save myself time. When I was last active here, they worked just fine. Now, they aren't pulling their parameters through. See for instance User:Robth/t, and its failed implementation at User:Robth/sandbox2. Can anyone tell me what I need to change to get these working again? --RobthTalk 05:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it's the best solution, but try adding  to the end of the template and see if that works. – RobinHood70 talk 08:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Doing a little more research, I discovered that adding  is the accepted solution, which essentially does the same thing, but with a bunch of additional options added. – RobinHood70 talk 08:27, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Substing question
Substing CurrentMCOTM produces this:

The names of the two articles (although not the date, which is—but perhaps shouldn't be—hard coded) are transcluded from two other templates.

As a result, the names of the two articles change whenever the underlying templates are changed (more or less monthly), rather than keeping the current answer. Is there a simple way to make the template pick up 'Spinal cord injury' from the other template (or whatever this month's choice is) as permanent text, rather than transcluding the template, and thus changing monthly? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * If I'm understanding the problem correctly, what you want to do is add  to the beginning of the two Collab templates, so for example:  . See Help:Substitution for more info. If you want the date to be similarly subst'd or transcluded, you could use  . Substitution isn't my forté, though, so try these in a sandbox and make sure you're getting what you expect. – RobinHood70 talk 19:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Also to clarify, I think what you want to do is have CurrentMCOTM permanently display the transcluded current COTM - so if you look at an announcement posted 3 months ago, it will display the CTOM from 3 months ago and not the current one. This is not possible unless you subst CurrentMCOTM each time you use it.  Alternatively, the template could be modified to take a date parameter, so you'd use   to get the COTM for the date specified.  The template could then contain an array of all previous COTMs, and display the article being asked for, the previous article, and the date.  --Scott Alter (talk) 19:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, the large template is supposed to be subst'd every time, never transcluded. The documentation on the project page is... somewhat less than ideal.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help. It looks like it all worked.  I appreciate the quick and helpful reply.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:49, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Create a new URL from a template argument
Templates like cite web use the arguments in  and   to make off-site links like this. {{ cite web | title = title-name | url  = http://www.example.org/example.html title-name Is it possible to take the URL argument and add to it to make additional new links? Specifically I would like to know if one could add  and   to the front of the URL argument and automatically create new links in the template, like this. {{ cite web | title = title-name | url  = http://www.example.org/example.html title-name Internet Archive's archive of title-name WebCite's archive of title-name Is this possible? Thanks. -  Hydroxonium  ( H{{sub|3}}O{{sup|+}} ) 18:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Please note: this request is unrelated to the  parameter of these templates. I am looking for 3 or 4 archives as opposed to the single archive that the   parameter provides. Thanks very much. -  Hydroxonium  ( H{{sub|3}}O{{sup|+}} ) 18:33, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * As long as you're not breaking up the initial link provided, and as long as it's provided as a plain-text link instead of a wiki link (e.g., http://whatever instead of ), then that would be quite easy. You could just add, for example,  to the template.


 * Note that it's probably a little more complex in that an Administrator would need to make the change, and you'll need to discuss whether it should be added to the core template or just {{tl|Cite web}}, but the basic idea is certainly feasible. – RobinHood70 {{sup|talk}} 19:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How embarrassing. Gawd, I can't believe I just asked that question. {{=)|smile}} You ever have one of those days? Anyhoo, thanks RobinHood70. -  Hydroxonium  ( H{{sub|3}}O{{sup|+}} ) 22:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I'm having one today, just not the same type of day you are. It's more of a "nothing's working" day. In any event, glad I could help. – RobinHood70 {{sup|talk}} 23:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

What about.......?
Hopefully this is the place to ask, so here goes. What about ? Two BLPs I edited recently made me think about this, Trevor Bayne and Mitch Evans. Of course there are many, many others, such as Jordan Romero, Samantha Larson, Michelle Wie, Tatum O'Neal etc etc etc. Just a thought. Moriori (talk) 21:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Infobox width
How do I get Type systems to be no wider than necessary? --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 22:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ &mdash; I've added a CSS width value as seen in this edit . Themeparkgc   Talk  23:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 04:22, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Barnstars 2.0
There seems to be a problem with the "alt" form of Template:The Teamwork Barnstar as listed at WP:BS2. Comments on the designer's user page suggest that it is the result of significant confusion. Does anyone here know how to fix it? Is this the sort of thing that you could fix one, and then we could use that one as a pattern for fixing the other half-dozen he's designed? (I assume that they all suffer from the same problem, but I haven't checked.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:13, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm confused too because I can't find any discussion about the problem anywhere. What is the problem and whose web page is it on? – RobinHood70 talk 01:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's all in pieces. WP:BS2 says that   produces the alternate version.  A brief look at the code proves that it does not.  The alt version was designed by, whose talk page shows sporadic complaints about these alt designs not working and hints about how to fix them.  Antonu seems to have given up on  in confusion.  I'd be willing to help—except that I don't know what to do.  All I really know is that when I tried to use the alt version of this template a couple of days ago, it didn't work.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah! Well, at least that part was easy enough. As you can see, I've now altered The Teamwork Barnstar to work both ways. It's just a matter of changing the original image link to, then updating the docs with a |alt=yes . You might also have to do a null-edit afterwards to get the alt version to display properly on the template page. I'll read over Antonu's page and see if there are any other issues. – RobinHood70 talk 22:00, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It took a couple of tries, but it seems to have worked. I'll try to fix the other 16 or so.  Would you mind looking at The Working Man's Barnstar, whose docs seem to be non-standard?  WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:32, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The Citation Barnstar is also odd. Can I leave that one to you?  WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:55, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I had meant to ask if you wanted me to do others and if you knew which ones needed doing. I'll be happy to look at the two you mentioned, and if you run into any problems or just want me to verify the ones you've done, just say so. – RobinHood70 talk 03:01, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * It looks like The Working Man's Barnstar already incorporates the alt parameter in both the template and the docs, so there should be no need to do anything there. As you can see, I did The Citation Barnstar a little differently. In truth, they all could have followed that pattern...it's really a matter of style choice and how easy it is to totally change game plans later on if necessary; for that one, it just made more sense given the extra parameters in the image link. – RobinHood70 talk 03:14, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as I can tell, we've covered all the ones on the BS2 page. It's always possible that I overlooked one, but I believe that they're all working now.  If not, then we can just wait until somebody squawks.  At least I'll know where to find the directions for the next one.
 * Thanks again for your help. I really do appreciate it.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:55, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, I love template work...well...most of the time. ;) – RobinHood70 talk 06:42, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Calculation error with 180 psi
I've found a small calculation problem with the psi to kPa conversion template. 170 and 180 psi both result in 1200 kPa. Example:

160 psi as built 170 psi adjusted 180 psi superheated

André Kritzinger 14:33, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

That is due to rounding. Using 3:


 * 160 psi
 * 170 psi
 * 180 psi

See the convert documentation for more on rounding. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 15:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that fixed it! André Kritzinger 23:45, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Template:R help
R help has been requested to be renamed. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 06:01, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

3~ and 5~
template:3~ and template:5~ have been nominated for deletion. See Templates for discussion/Log/2011 May 4. 64.229.100.153 (talk) 05:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Projects
Hi, I notice that most wiki projects have a nice type template. Are these generated automatically, or (as I suspect) manually?

I think (I may be wrong) that no such template exists for WikiProject Maps. In which case could someone create one please - or explain how I might go about doing it.

Assuming that had been created and pasted on a few articles, would adding this

to the WikiProject page - generate the table I'm accustomed to seeing? or is it more tricky?

Hope you can help EdwardLane (talk) 09:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * To create the template, you should use . That template is quite complicated, but everything is explained in the documentation and you shouldn't need most of it anyway. To use the template, you don't have to have the assessment categories, but if you want to, follow Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Using the bot and the relevant section in the template documentation. User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk; 12:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * thanks - Ive started creating it here (thought it's commented out at the moment - I'm not an admin so I can't use some bot or other to auto create the various categories and subcategories (I can do them by hand if required but) if someone fancied doing that - catgory articles by quality/importance etc ? (smiles and hopes for a bit more help) :) EdwardLane (talk) 13:43, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * See User:TinucherianBot/Category tree creation: there is a bot you can use even if you're not an admin. User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk; 14:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks Svick, I've put this on temporary hold while I ask whether there is a consensus within the wikiproject maps. I think I now understand how that works (more or less). :)
 * Basic template is now created - but still awaiting feedback from wikiproject maps people - thanks very much for your assistance :) EdwardLane (talk) 09:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Infobox problem
Recently (since yesterday) I've noticed that all infoboxes align to the left instead of the right. Also, the lead section no longer word wraps around the infobox. This leaves a lot of unnecessary white space to the right of the infobox forcing the reader to scroll down past the infobox in order to read the lead section of the article.

Is this a problem with Wikipedia or is this a problem caused by my browser (Firefox 3.6)?Music+mas (talk) 20:44, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Disregard my previous comment. The problem was with my browser.Music+mas (talk) 21:18, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Template:Alternating rows table section
I hopefully just rewrote Alternating rows table section to eliminate the repeated calls to 1x and/or Void, and it's currently sitting in Alternating rows table section/sandbox. Limited testing indicates that it's ready to go, but before I slap an editprotected on the talk page, can I get a second opinion, please, to make sure I haven't missed anything glaringly obvious? Thanks! – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 02:10, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not a member of the project, but could I suggest that instead of os/es you name the parameters odd/even? I realize you may be preserving some sort of backwards compatibility, but the single-letter-abbreviations seem overly abstract. Just a thought. VIWS talk 02:23, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether that could be changed fully depends on how many pages it's transcluded onto directly. The transclusion count says it's upwards of 17,000, but I'd bet that almost all of them come from the handful of templates that use it. Even if turns out that there are a lot of others besides those, odd and even could easily be added as alternates. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 03:11, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As it turns out, there are only three templates and one article that use the template, so this should be an easy switch. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 16:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Please don't tell me you went through all 17000 transcluding pages to check on what was, at most, a dispassionate observation. VIWS talk 17:59, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have two or three words for you, depending on your point of view: "non-editing bot". :) – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 21:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've not gotten into bots yet. I just started on templates and infoboxes recently, but I'm sure I'll want to make at least a brief soirée into bot land sometime. I'm glad you didn't go through a bunch of pages to find out that info. VIWS talk 10:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Rorschach test
Can someone fix it so that the inkblot in the lede hugs the right side of the page rather than the right edge of the text? --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 07:10, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I can't see an easy way to fix it within the Overlay template itself, but I was at least able to fix it within the article. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 15:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

New text direction template
Over at Infobox Writing System, we're having a discussion on a script direction template for possible inclusion in the Writing System infobox, as well as for use with inline text. I'm looking for comments on the currently proposed template (currently in user namespace). Templates for discussion doesn't seem to be the place to list this, nor does Requested templates, so this is my starting point. Where else would you suggest soliciting comments? Vanisaac (talk) 21:19, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've moved it out of User namespace and to template:TextDir. I'll be working on incorporating it into the Writing Systems infobox soon. VanIsaacWS 23:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Template: userspace draft
I have started a discussion at Template:Userspace draft and invite comment. Doesn't seem to be a commonly watched page. Thanks. Cliff (talk) 19:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Template:SplitfromBannerShell
Template:SplitfromBannerShell is currently showing as a redlink. No idea why and I was not watching it. Can someone check? --Mirokado (talk) 23:37, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * See Templates for discussion/Log/2011 August 14 VanIsaacWS 23:42, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Mirokado (talk) 01:25, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Usually when a page gets deleted, they leave behind a reason. All I did was post the link to the deletion discussion they left. VanIsaacWS 01:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Maps
Hello again, Some while back I asked about making the template - that's archived here.

Per that discussion I looked at the User:TinucherianBot/Category tree creation page and stuck a request here, as that page suggested.

I've not heard back yet from Tinucherian, which is fair enough, but given that I've created Template:WikiProject Maps based on can someone check that I've not messed up and that if I 'uncomment' the section in the template (which deals with all the class and importance categories) that once the tinucherianbot is fired off it will function properly.

Cheers EdwardLane (talk) 17:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok think it's all dealt with now, thanks to User:Philosopher for the assistance. EdwardLane (talk) 10:46, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Template:REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD
A consensus has been reached that values of "I", "?" and "U" for the cat parameter in REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD should all populate a single category: Category:AfD debates (Not yet sorted). Is there a way to do this that is more efficient than individually listing the category name for each value? Thank you, -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)


 * If I'm understanding you correctly, you would just have to add the following code in between one category and the next:
 * – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 01:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 01:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * A slightly modified solution, involving the removal of one of the parameter values, was implemented, but thank you for your helpful response. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:47, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Participant list
Can someone add me to the participants list? I can't do so on my phone since Opera Mini 4 has an J2ME error when I try to edit even the participants section by itself. LikeLakers2 (talk &#124; Sign my guestbook!) 02:28, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 02:50, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Alphabetical Order
How are the articles arranged in a transclusion template? Is the standard A to Z? Or are they just added at random? When I look at Featured Articles they have the template items arranged A to Z so this would seem to be the preferred method. Is this correct? Thanks!--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 17:16, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Refactoring deletion archival templates?
Any possibility of refactoring the deletion archival templates so that the "The following is an archived discussion concerning..." boilerplate can be consolidated into one place? I recently made minor edits to add a link within the boilerplate, and let me tell you, it was a tad tedious since it entailed a separate edit for each of the cross-product of {top, bottom} and {Article, File, Category, etc.}. I would try doing it myself, but that seems inadvisably bold and I'm not sure whether/what special considerations must be made for subst -ed templates. --<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b> cobra (talk) 08:43, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Tlxs
Template:Tlxs has been nominated for merging with Template:Tlsx. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. 70.24.248.23 (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Expert needed please
Hi. I recently created the template, Succession table monarch, a standardised succession table, and have sought feedback at relevant wikiprojects. In one of those, namely Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility/Archive 7, I was advised that if an unused parameter (like notes) is left blank it doesn't create a cell, thus causing the borders of the blank cell to come up thinner than the others. At the time, I thought this may have been caused by me setting a border for the whole table as well as for each cell (i.e. a cell = cell border + table border, but no cell = table border only). However, such an error shouldn't be occuring at all. In making the table, I made row and cell creation dependent solely on the first cell in each row. That is, neither the row nor any constituent cell will appear unless the first parameter (the "name" parameter) is filled. The creation of every other cell should happen regardless of whether they're filled or empty. I've re-examined my code and it appears to be correct for the desired outcome. What's more, all transclusions of the table appear to look fine on my browser. It may simply be the case that it doesn't show up the same on all browsers. Nonetheless, can some expert on wiki/template/table/html stuff please examine my coding and let me know if it's correct. Thank you.  Claret Ash  06:37, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I looked at your code and saw nothing wrong with it, so I looked at the URL you mentioned and also came up with no issues in recent versions of all 5 major PC browsers. I put a dummy copy of the template in my sandbox. If you or anyone else wants to modify it so that it replicates the issue, I can have another look at it tomorrow, but I suspect, as NightW said, it's probably just a browser-specific rendering glitch as opposed to a template issue. Still, one thing you can try to work around it is to add an &amp;nbsp; in the "else" portion of your #if statements and see if that addresses the problem. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 07:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I tried the  but it caused the parameter names to appear in transclusion. Not to worry. As for the border thing, it very well may be just a browser issue. I think I'll sit on this one for now and wait and see if others have similar issues. Many thanks for your help.  Claret  Ash  08:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This is the second time this month that I've noticed something visually wrong that others don't. The first was confirmed to be a browser-related one, so I'm guessing this one is too. I wouldn't worry about it, ClaretAsh. It's not causing any problems, it's not even really causing any bother. Thanks for responding though. Overall the template looks incredibly professional.  Night w   11:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I try.  Claret Ash  11:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Red links and non-linked text in navigation templates
Your input is requested at a discussion about including red links and non-linked text in navigation templates here. Any constructive contributions would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 02:59, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Frustration >> Challenge
I love to work on templates to solve links disambiguation pages in it. Unfortunately, there are so many ways in use to disambiguate, that it is often difficult and frustrating. I would love it when somebody would take up the challenge to rebuild the templates to a uniform (or a very limited number of) way(s)s to disambiguate.

Any takers? Night of the Big Wind <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  15:05, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:newc/h1
Can someone look at ? It looks like newc/h1 creates templates of the form "Template:newc/Conversations/xyz" in templatespace to hold conversations? See Special:PrefixIndex/template:newc/. 70.24.244.248 (talk) 07:09, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * That's what I see too. The idea behind it is documented at the parent template, Newc. I'm not sure what Wiki policy and/or its editors might have to say about that idea, but we have several other templates, like Cite doi, that follow a similar subpaging scheme. [] – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 17:26, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Well... looking at Newc/Conversations/20070516030049.9641, it contains


 * ... which isn't what the DOI citation templates do (a place to hold chats) 76.65.128.132 (talk) 07:26, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. That's why I said I wasn't sure what the policy/editor view of things might be. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 18:12, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Update of category
When I have changed a template which alters the category an article is in, the update will either take place when an edit is made of the page or automatically. The automatic update can take anything from a few hours to about a week. How does the auto update get triggered? The reason for asking is because of articles in Category:Georgia (U.S. state) articles needing images should not be there. Template:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) was updated 18 June 2011 to place the articles in Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Georgia (U.S. state). Any way to force an update without going through each article manually? --Traveler100 (talk) 19:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Often, doing a null-save (edit then save without doing anything) on the template itself will trigger a refresh. Since the template's protected, I'd start by asking an Admin to do that, and see where that gets you.


 * EDIT: In the few random ones I checked, I'm noticing that they're all using WikiProject GeorgiaUS. It may be that redirect that needs the null save, rather than the target one. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 00:22, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Please help in fixing a template
Hello to the members of this project. Tonight I came upon this template Winnie-the-Pooh. As you will see the top line is messed up. I have edited these navbox templates rarely and never created one so I could not find what needs changing to get all the template lingo off the top line and make the "v.d.e" links show up properly. My thanks ahead of time to anyone who can fix this. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 02:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Just do not link the name of a template. Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  03:08, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Figures it's be something simple but it just goes to show that there is always something new to learn around here. I'll remember it if I ever come across it again. I appreciate your time. MarnetteD | Talk 04:08, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

New discussion occurring: add the Find sources parameter to the AfD template
— Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've started a discussion to add the Find sources parameter to the AfD template: Located Here.

Topic navbars
Can someone from this project please look into the claim made here that Africa topic doesn't show the correct article names. For me, entering gives a navbar where the constituent articles are all of the form "Music of...". For the other user, though, apparently only the navbar title is rendered in that format, the constuent articles not.

Thank you,  Claret Ash  23:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I've looked over the template and I don't see how that could possibly happen...certainly not with the link given in that discussion. There also haven't been any changes to the template in roughly a month, so that's not likely to be the issue either. Barring a repeat performance, I'd call it a one-off glitch and leave it at that. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 03:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

How to do?
I am planning to build a series of templates for Michelin starred restaurants in The Netherlands. Due to the many restaurants, I think (but correct me if I am wrong) to take a two tier approach. Bottom level will be a series of templates based on Template:Michelin stars in Ireland (minus the chefs). One template for every province (if applicable) and for Haarlem, The Hague and Amsterdam. I will be a lot of work, but I think I can manage that. The problem is the national template. This one should send you to the "local" templates. And I have not a clue how to do that. Night of the Big Wind <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  08:45, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The first provincial template is ready: Template:Michelin stars in Zeeland, Netherlands. The top level template should open this template when clicked on "Zeeland". Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  10:45, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You only need a national template if there are articles Michelin starred restaurants in Haarlem etc... Rich Farmbrough, 12:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC).


 * If have figured it out already. I was just thinking to difficult :-( Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  02:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Daring suggestion
Rename all navboxes to start with. Rich Farmbrough, 12:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC).


 * Sounds like a good idea but I think it'll rapidly annoy people. It's already a nuisance having to write Template + colon + infobox + infobox name for the various infoboxes.
 * Having said that, I do support some sort of standardisation of template names. I've come across cases where a region-based sidebar was named in the plural to differentiate it from its equivalent navbar but, for a neighbouring region, it was the navbar's name that was in the plural. Confusingly.
 * Maybe it's time to discuss standardising names. Or is that suggestion too daring? :-)  Claret Ash  05:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

USCongDistState
At Template talk:USCongDistState, there is a proposed change to that would have it include a state-specific redistricting link if one exists (as it does for Redistricting in Arizona and Redistricting in Pennsylvania). The editor responding to the request needs someone with template expertise; can someone take a look? Thanks in advance. 67.101.5.216 (talk) 18:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Where to discuss?
I have a set of 200 templates, all tables. Most have regular usage with multiple transclusions &tc. But some of them are huge (into maximum practical page size), and do not transclude usefully. These few might be eligible for deletion, because they are "only have one or zero transclusions". Alternatively we can put the code in a mainspace page, with the risk of deletion because that "this is not an article". So I want to propose & discuss & solidify (into explicit consensus) that these templates will stay in Template space, whatever transclusions. Also, a simple big transcluding article page should stay, even though it is not a full dressed article. Where do I start that discussion? Here? TfD? the Category's Talk space? An RfC somewhere? at Unicode Talk? (links: Category:Unicode charts, currently in mainspace are "Lists of ..." sorted under C for "CJK ..."). -DePiep (talk) 15:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Seriously folks, we need to know what to do with the big CJK Unicode charts. Right now, they are in the article mainspace, but they are twins of about 200 templates. We need to be able to keep the templates and the transcluding pages from being summarily deleted. We would like to start a conversation about adding more functionality to all the template:Unicode chart templates, but we need to know that we aren't just going to get deleted. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-2.9ex">contribs 12:07, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering if perhaps it should be discussed under AFD and figure out what gets the 'result was keep' message. EdwardLane (talk) 17:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

IslamNavigation
Can someone take a look at ? I've described what I think the problem is here (basically, the name parameter is used for two different things). jonkerz ♠talk 10:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like Richardguk has taken care of it. – RobinHood70 <sup style="line-height:0">talk 09:44, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks Richardguk. jonkerz ♠talk 16:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Adding a RFC notice to a template
Is there a way to add a RFC notification so it transcludes with a template. Something along the lines of the tfd notifications, but instead directs interested parties to the RFC. AIR corn (talk) 12:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, what is the template and what is the notice you want transcluded? — Bility (talk) 17:08, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Region culture
Hi. Can someone please look over this template I've created. It's intended to supersede Region culture and standardise the sidebars based thereon. I think I've coded correctly. However, there's still a couple of issues I'd like feedback on before deploying it.


 * As a meta-template on which other templates are to be based, is the coding correct for that purpose (esp. the name parameter)?
 * I wanted to force a list's title to appear even if there were no articles in that list. Is the method I used (by identically styling the listtitle and heading parameters) sufficient or is there a better way? (Please tell me if there is as it took me days to figure out this solution. My problem was that ListNtitle is dependent on ListN being filled.)
 * Should the template be coloured? Just the list titles, the heading only, the entire template? Should it be adjustable for each template built on this one?
 * Have I correctly coded the expansion option so that the option to expand only needs to be set by the end user (e.g. by entering into an article) rather than by the editor creating a template based on this one?

Thank you.  Claret Ash  09:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Is such a strict format really desirable here? I'm one of the biggest fans of constrained meta-templates, but it looks as if the likes of culture of Poland will have to be completely rewritten for the new system. Nevertheless, the idea looks fine in principle and if all of the hand-cooked templates can be replaced with this one then that'd be great. You don't need both headings and list titles: just the list title will suffice. I've made that change, and also a few additional tweaks to make the code as simple and readable as possible. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 09:53, 12 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for checking it out and fixing things. I do have a couple of queries, though. Please be patient if the questions seem dumb as I'm still learning this stuff.
 * Regarding the temporary name parameter, I presume you've only adjusted it as an example. However, when this template is deployed to template space, should the code begin as follows?

{{Sidebar with collapsible lists
 * name = {{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}


 * Regarding the Poland thing, I presume it's only an example which shouldn't remain once the template is deployed?
 * I see you removed the headings. However, the reason I included them as I did (i.e. identical to listtitle in style and dependent on the relevant topics parameter being empty) was because I wanted list titles (AKA the main articles) to appear regardless of whether there were any sub-articles. (Note the missing History section in the example here). Thanks to the coding at {{tl|Sidebar with collapsible lists}}, though, a list's title does not appear if a list is empty. Making a heading appear only if its associated listtitle didn't was the best compromise I could find.
 * Also, just to clarify, what do you mean by "strict format" above?
 * Thanks again for checking.  Claret Ash  12:21, 12 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Pleasure is mine.
 * always has to be filled out manually. You can't just use {{tl|PAGENAME}} because that would inherit from the article that the template is transcluded onto.
 * Yeah, I only picked Poland so I could immediately see the result. Those parameters should be emptied prior to deployment.
 * You can make the headers conditional on there not being a list: see how I've done it in this edit.
 * Presently these sidebars use freeform lists. Are you sure that they can all be adapted so that all of their contents can be fit under the categories you've chosen? If so then that's fine, but it may be some work simply trying to figure out what goes where in some cases.
 * Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:39, 12 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, I think I understand. Yes, I saw that some of the extant sidebars list articles that probably don't need to be included (e.g. list of painters, musicians etc. in country X). I opted to leave those particular lists out because to include all possible "cultural" occupations would make the template too unwieldy. Having said that, some of the main such articles can be included under their relevant subject (e.g. "list of artists" in the arts list). I've also included the "traditions" section not just for specifically "traditional customs" articles but also as a catch-all for articles which may not best fit elsewhere. Nonetheless, I'll check each existing template first before deploying anything.  Claret Ash  23:44, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Timeline of Band Members
I'm trying to find a standardisation for the timeline used for band members and not having much luck, can't even find the original template! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals/BandTimeline — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yellowxander (talk • contribs) 12:25, 11 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Having looked at the code of AC/DC timeline and Timeline Soft Machine (band), for example, I think you might find this page useful. On another topic, regarding your WikiProject proposal, you might get some helpful advice from the folks over at WikiProject Succession Box Standardization. (Idea: standardised timeline on band articles but succession box on band member articles). Hope this helps.  Claret Ash  13:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Template:Culture of region
Template:Culture of region - There is an ongoing talk about the benefits and disadvantages of generic templats that produce redlinks pls see Template talk:Culture of region.Moxy (talk) 15:30, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Map templates in two series
Hello. I just created a testing template: Geobox2 and a testing page with examples: User:Tlustulimu/sandbox. The first example doesn't use any locator. But the second example works very well using the locator of the template location map. I think, that two series for the same think are not so good. And the locators of both templates use almost the same parameters. The locators of geobox don't have the parameter name. But its not a great problem to add it there. And the locators of Location map don't have the parameter ratio. But I think, that it is not necessary. Greetings --Tlustulimu (talk) 13:44, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Template for graphs
fr:Modèle:Graphique polygonal is a very interesting template for flexible graphs. Do we have something similar or would it be worth the while to translate it?  Sandstein  11:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like they're using EasyTimeline, which we have installed here (it's what powers most of these templates). Also see WP:GRAPH. — Bility (talk) 15:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's interesting, but we do not seem to have a template for line charts, as in the French example. I'll try to port it.  Sandstein   20:25, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Done, at Line chart.  Sandstein   22:00, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Template:Talk_header_for_guidelines
Template:Talk_header_for_guidelines needs a makeover. It's based on the October 2006 version of Template:Talk header, so it's years behind. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 18:24, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I've taken a look and made a few changes to it (superficial, mostly). Maybe the developer(s) of talkheader would be able/willing to update it. benzband  ( talk ) 19:00, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Question: "&lt;--" only in transclusion?
Hi. Some templates insert comments when substituded, like no more links. Assume we've got in Template:xyz. I'd like to make it: Is it possible? I think it'll make the template doc less prone to getting obsolete, since the template content is printed at the top of Template:xyz. Thanks beforehand.--Ahora (talk) 12:45, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) When transcluded, it's
 * 2) In Template:xyz, it's &amp;lt;-- comment-xyz -->
 * This could be handled by using <includeonly ></includeonly> around the comment syntax and <noinclude ></noinclude> around tags to display the text on the template. — Bility (talk) 18:50, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I asked wrongly. Suppose the comment body is long, and I'd like to write the body only once, sharing it both for noinclude and includeonly. Put differently, is it possible to apply noinclude and includeonly only to &lt;-- part by some complicated trick? Thanks Bility for your answer.--Ahora (talk) 00:33, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You can surround any body of text within  and , and it only applies to whatever body of text is between them, in this case, the word "and". Same thing with   tags. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-2.9ex">contribs 00:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's an example: Template:No more links/sandbox. — Bility (talk) 05:02, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! It's simpler than I feared. :) --Ahora (talk) 05:40, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Template Help
Where is the appropriate place to request help with a template? I have posted on Requested_templates but on second thought this may also be the correct place to post. --ben_b (talk) 23:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, but you didn't actually request any help with anything here. I'll be perfectly frank with you, I checked at the requested templates thread, and I work a lot better with numbers than strings, so this is a bit out of my league, but I think if you wrote it up here, you would find some people with good expertise on these sorts of problems. I'm wondering if a 1 is getting past the Str number/logic sieve, so the whole ref line is getting treated as a number. It's a thought, but I don't know how good a one. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-2.9ex">contribs 04:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm confused at what you are confused on? My question at Requested_templates was:


 * My template sometimes needs to make calls like  which return  rather than the correct answer of  because the ref is being processed by the wiki software. Technically this is probably a bug in Str number/trim and Str letter/trim that should be fixed. The template makes this call via  . I am wondering how I can call   on  . It's worth noting that in testing even   appears to return the incorrect results of   nothing. If you would like to take a look at the code directly here is what I am working on: Ranking movements/strip/sandbox.


 * No confusion, just that you asked if you could ask for help here, and then promptly neglected to actually tell us what the problem was. I thought I'd rib you a bit on it. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-2.9ex">contribs 02:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The key part here is "I am wondering how I can call  on  " or any other solutions you can think of to solve the problem really. The problem is with the ref tab which is processed by the wiki software. If the ref tag was not processed by the software it would stop at   as it is not an acceptable character for Str number/trim. E.g.:   ->   --ben_b (talk) 05:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Putting nowiki before anything returns nothing since it's not seeing a number. The point of Str number/trim is it has to start with the number, so putting something in front of it defeats the purpose. As I said in the other thread, the problem is the ref is messing up padleft. — Bility (talk) 16:40, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In the first example, the cite.php software is going to parse the content of the tag. In the second, the  will escape the content of the  tag; see . ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's a thought. Why don't you make an explicit "ref" parameter, so that anyone who tries to use the template will separate out any references from the main parameter. Then your template can call the trim templates with only the numbers / letters, then automatically place the reference after the result. The error might even help you because if someone does put the ref tag in, the result will look really wrong, and either the editor, or someone else will see to look at the template documentation, which shows a "ref" parameter, and gives them a clue that references don't belong in unnamed slots.

If you can't fix the error, give people an alternate to causing the error in the first place, eh? VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-2.9ex">contribs 03:12, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

RfC notice

 * RfC concerning protection of templates and the creation of a template editor user-right. - jc37 13:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

3OR template bug on Project pages
It appears to me the 3OR template has a bug when placed on a Wikiproject talk page. When is placed on a Wikiproject talk page with the parameter "d=yes", the template expands to provide a full reply. However, the link to the relevant page, i.e., "... I have made no previous edits on  ", produces an empty link. The template doesn't add the necessary "Wikipedia:" prefix to the link, or something like that. The same bug occurs in sandbox and user talk pages. Anyone know how to go about fixing this? Coastside (talk) 13:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So, currently, it will subst in the variable PAGENAME. I think it should actually be SUBJECTPAGENAME. I'm going to go ahead and change it and test the result, but if anyone knows of any sneaky problems, feel free to revert me, because I don't really know all the nuance of variables and magic words. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 00:55, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems to work now. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 01:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I tested it, and yes, it seems to work now. Thank you! Coastside (talk) 07:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

time ago transcluded effect
I used in a template. On the template page itself it functions as expected. Now when I transclude the template, the time used is that of the transcluding page. In this case, that is undesired. I'd like to read the template's time situation.

Example in /sandbox and /testcases (edits welcome):
 * Periodic table by article quality/sandbox (copy the master template)
 * Periodic table by article quality/testcases
 * (Original pages with this problem: (source template), WikiProject Elements/Articles/Periodic Table by Quality).

Any suggestions? -DePiep (talk) 15:32, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Template talk:Archive list long
This affects the navigation archive box at WP:UNDELETE when the template max is exceeded. Searches are unaffected.--Trevj (talk) 12:08, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Workaround to avoid using Archive list long now in place at WP:UNDELETE - see Template talk:Archive list long.--Trevj (talk) 18:47, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Moved thread from WP:Requests_for_comment/Request_board Coastside (talk) 16:34, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Looking for a template
I'm looking for a template that will truncate leading zeros off the front of a hex number. I haven't been able to find one that can be adapted in all the Template:String templates see also text to no avail. It seems like this should already exist, but I've been trying every search term I can think of. Anybody know if this guy exists? I'd hate to spend the time recreating something that's already been done. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 22:59, 13 June 2012 (UTC):
 * I am working on one, today. Will be back here. -DePiep (talk) 08:00, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I was hoping it would already exist. I'm looking to improve the presentation of HTML numeric character references for a template I am testing out at User:Vanisaac/charmap for writing systems character articles. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 08:30, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ooo! I think I just thought of an elegant way of doing this recursively. I wonder if the template architecture would balk at that. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 08:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Recursion will give a warning and someone from WikiMedia will come over to edit in your userspace (howdo I know this)...
 * At, it is solved: a) require valid hex input (leading 0 accepted), b) calculate to decimal once (needed in various subtemplates, we can use #ifexpr: and maths), c) recalc & format the decimal into U+hex for presentation: U+0069. -DePiep (talk) 09:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's a really good idea, and I think I'll use it. Thanks. The general template should still exist, though. This can't be the only time something like this would be handy. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 10:15, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

template:linkSummaryLive showing spam links on Google?
There is a discussion about a possible issue with template:linkSummaryLive at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:53, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

uw-ublp?
While rummaging through the article alert bot pages, I came across a new, essentially unreferenced, BLP. When I went to the user's page, I was surprised to discover that there doesn't appear to be a template saying "you made a BLP, we appreciate it but this is why it's not so good, can you fix it plz kthx". So I prepared the following; does anyone else think this might be a helpful addition? - The Bushranger One ping only 17:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, and welcome to Wikipedia. I that an article you recently created  is a biography of a living person; as a BLP, it must meet higher standards for referencing than other articles to be kept on Wikipedia. The article's references are currently not up to the standards required by the BLP policy; please note that unreferenced biographies of living people are likely to be deleted. Your contributions are appreciated and valued, so if you could add additional reliable, secondary sources to the article that establish why this living person is notable, that would be great. Thanks, and I hope you enjoy your time on Wikipedia!

Me first template
I think this is the first time I've created a template and would like some feedback. It's at Ellipsis. After a bit of feedback I intend to make it optionally-switchable between types of ellipsis, thoughts on that would be appreciated too. Egg  Centri  c  15:46, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Maybe you add that were possible, it should be substituted ( {{subst:ellipsis}} )? Maybe also link to ellipsis: the article provides basic info on getting an ellipsis using the keyboard. benzband  ( talk ) 16:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good template.
 * For the option thing: I just listed them in ellipsis (another good thing your template did, they were missing). See what I did in the . It uses: 1. optional first parameter: . 2. Input into lowercase to catch all input. 3. The . 4. Including the #switch thing #default=. I added some -not all- options. If you get the "parameter 1" thing you'll be king, and if you get the #switch essentials you are emperor. Next step could be owning Wikipedia. Have a nice edit. -DePiep (talk) 17:01, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So it is used: &rarr;   -DePiep (talk) 17:03, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have created a redirect to your template, because it may be spelled wrong (how do I know?): . And from template:hellip too, the html shortcut. -DePiep (talk) 17:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Request
I have a request pertaining to Infobox music of, which is a template that's used to standardize the appearance of many "Music of individual country" navboxes. The problem is that Infobox music of uses an entry field within the individual navboxes (e.g. Music of Canada) to automatically generate and transclude a top-level category (e.g. ) onto each and every article that the child template is added to, even if the article is already in a more appropriate subcategory (e.g. ).

The result is that the only way to properly diffuse the parent category to avoid duplicate categorization ends up being to remove the template entirely from pages where it should ordinarily be used. And, in fact, this very issue is one of the reasons why Wikipedia actually deprecates using templates to artificially transclude categories onto articles in the first place, meaning that Infobox music of shouldn't really be pushing extra categories onto articles at all; normally a page should only appear in categories that have been directly applied to the page itself, not in categories that have been imported by a template.

Thus I need to request one of two solutions — either the category-generating code in Infobox music of should be removed entirely, so that the template never transcludes any categories at all, or such transclusion should be made optional using category suppression, so that the extra category can be turned off in cases where it's not wanted without interfering with the ability to use it in other cases. However, as I'm not well-versed in how to work with template coding syntax, I don't know how to do either one myself — which is why I'm requesting assistance. It's also worth noting, for the record, that this is not the first time I've asked for this. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 21:52, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I take this. Continu talk at template talk:Infobox music of. If communication dies within 24h, I've lost it & yo can kill me (just my IP please ;-)). -DePiep (talk) 22:11, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with transcluding in #switch: conditional
So I'm working on a template that has a huge #switch: samp> condition, and I'd like to separate some of the groups of pattern matches into separate lists for ease of maintenance and readability. I'd like to do something along the lines of

where are just big lists of |case N = result N lines. I already tested a trivial implementation in user space, and it didn't work at all. Anybody know if there's a trick to pull this off? VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">contribs 00:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Sure, you basically just have to create a few different switch conditions, and pass the parameters through to each of them. Maybe something like this in the parent template:


 * And in the daughter templates, something like this:


 * If you do it this way, you have to be careful that you don't have duplicate cases, and you have to be careful not to introduce any extraneous whitespace. Also, only one of the switch statements should have a #default value, otherwise you might end up with a jumble of concatenated default results. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Best — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 07:21, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Templates linking to other templates
Do we do that? Here, enter the world of such a phenomenon: Template:Mahoba district

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No we don't in article space, template pages are not articles. In the example you give it is even easier: the links could be directly to the article each linked template has in its title. -DePiep (talk) 13:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep. That's what I thought. In case you didn't know, this is templates linking to templates containing links to to templates, etc. I don't know how big the network is, but I will go through them and direct the links to articles on Sunday or so, if nobody else gets to it first. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone . -DePiep (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup i have this page on my watchlist. It was simply a matter of using the "search and replace" toolbar function. benzband  ( talk ) 14:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Splendid. One down, about 73 more to go. :) AWB fodder?


 * Agra
 * Aligarh
 * Allahabad
 * Ambedkar Nagar
 * Auraiya
 * Azamgarh
 * Badaun
 * Bagpat
 * Bahraich
 * Ballia
 * Balrampur
 * Banda
 * Barabanki
 * Bareilly
 * Basti
 * Bhimnagar
 * Bijnor
 * Bulandshahr
 * Chandauli
 * Chitrakoot
 * Deoria
 * Etah
 * Etawah
 * Faizabad
 * Farrukhabad
 * Fatehpur
 * Firozabad
 * Gautam Buddha Nagar
 * Ghaziabad
 * Ghazipur
 * Gonda
 * Gorakhpur
 * Hamirpur
 * Hardoi
 * Jalaun
 * Jaunpur
 * Jhansi
 * Jyotiba Phule Nagar
 * Kannauj
 * Kanpur Nagar
 * Kanshi Ram Nagar
 * Kaushambi
 * Kushinagar
 * Lakhimpur Kheri
 * Lalitpur
 * Lucknow
 * Mahamaya Nagar
 * Maharajganj
 * Mainpuri
 * Mathura
 * Mau
 * Meerut
 * Mirzapur
 * Moradabad
 * Muzaffarnagar
 * Panchsheel Nagar
 * Pilibhit
 * Prabuddhanagar
 * Pratapgarh
 * Raebareli
 * Ramabai Nagar
 * Rampur
 * Saharanpur
 * Sant Kabir Nagar
 * Sant Ravidas Nagar
 * Shahjahanpur
 * Shravasti
 * Siddharthnagar
 * Sitapur
 * Sonbhadra
 * Sultanpur
 * Unnao
 * Varanasi

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Why summon AWB when you have a meatbot at hand? benzband  ( talk ) 16:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much. You are awesome. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

✅

Requested templates
There are several long-outstanding requests at Requested templates. It would be good if members of this wikiproject would take a look at those requests and deal with those they can and direct the questioners of the others to where help can be gained.

If the page is no longer watched (as it seems), then please could it be clearly marked as historical/depricated/abandoned/whatever and give directions to the best place to ask for templates these days (here?). Thryduulf (talk) 21:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've closed some discussions which are in the wrong place or where a template with the requested purpose already exists. However, there seems to be a problem with MiszaBot not archiving the page properly; some discussions were last updated in April or May, and there's a 28-day timer on archiving. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:13, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Archiving is now fixed. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:21, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Since there are many articles sources that use the Template type Culture of England, in which it is linked "National symbol of", it's more that it is changing this single template, with a link to "National symbol of" and not "Symbol of" as it is now. Someone is able to make this change? --Kasper2006 (talk) 06:24, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Template:Michelin stars in Zeeland, Netherlands

 * Ehm, panic....
 * The construction used in Template:Michelin stars in Zeeland, Netherlands to point to other templates is not allowed? <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 21:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. What you can do is move those below the Navbox, with state=collapsed. The user can then show those listings if they want. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:54, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like some of those templates need to have their state=autocollapse set to state= as well. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 22:01, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There are 14 templates, and 130 such restaurants in Category:Michelin Guide starred restaurants in the Netherlands (many red links in the templatese extra). There is also List of Michelin starred restaurants in the Netherlands.
 * Now maybe these navbox templates is not the best way to present the information. e.g. to me there is no navbox-base to a navbox them per province or region (it is not a relevant restaurant aspect is it). So there shoould be one navbox not 14. That one would have 130 (plus the redlinked) restaurants. Still, that does not look like a useful navigation box. Apart from the Michelin stars, these restaurants have nothing in common. The topic is not described or so. The Category has the notable restaurant links. And in fact that list does the job better (listing & comparing restaurents, even on more aspects). Shouldn't we merge the templates into the list (i.e. completify the list, and delete the templates)? -DePiep (talk) 11:03, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The reason why I have chosen for regional templates is that it gives due weight to the restaurants outside Amsterdam, Haarlem, Rotterdam and The Hague. Besides that, I have written 126 restaurant-articles with an estimated 97 article yet to come. So, after a merge you will end up with a template with over 220 links (in the end). Quite heavy. And the number of Michelin starred restaurants is still growing. So merging is, in my opinion, not an option. But I am open to other ways to connect the templates with each other. At the moment, while still writing the articles, I find the present way very convenient. But when it is not allowed, too bad for me.
 * Another reason is that many Michelin starred restaurants are interconnected, due to moving head chefs or companies owning more then one restaurant. For instance, Ciel Bleu and Yamazato are both based in the Okura Hotel in Amsterdam. Sonoy and the former Hof van Sonoy, are owned by the same head chef who moved the restaurant. Henk Savelberg has earned Michelin stars with four (4) different restaurants. Les Quatre Saisons was housed in the same farmhouse as the present De Vlindertuin. And so on... <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 11:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Surely, navboxes are not supposed to link to a template page, it would lead the reader out of content space (into some WP background space). Instead, they should link to article pages and categories. Next, subdividing by region is not helping the navigation: it requires prior knowledge of where a restaurant is located&mdash;while that is what I could be looking for. On top of this, the division is by multiple levels: province group - province - region - city: adding to confusion. Next, so merging into one template would yield 220 links (of which some 100 red now). If that were giving an overview of the topic, that is no problem (though really it should contain existing articles). But in this case, the only overview is that it is a list only (likely devided into 1, 2, 3 starred restaurants). That is hardly giving an overview of the topic. That would still not satisfy these criteria from WP:NAVBOX: provide navigation and contain related articles. Anyway, I'd prefer the big one over 14 split up ones (and it solves the don't-link-to-templates issue). But to me the best overview to looks like the List of Michelin starred restaurants in the Netherlands. There, more properties (columns) can be added, and it can be sorted (name, place, stars, chef, ...) which can give many more readers answers. -DePiep (talk) 13:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, my goodness! That article is already so big and heavy... <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 14:39, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, I template are a tough job as my knowledge is very limited. I think the least worse option is to merge all the template into one (with regret). Is there a possibility to have the template conditionally collapsed, i.e. the whole template collapsed except the province/region of the restaurant described? If not possible, how can I let the whole template collapse and when expand only showing the collapsed provinces/region? <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 16:21, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Link dispute on a template
A discussion is going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies, regarding the formulation of a link on Template:LGBT. Any input from members of this project would be appreciated. StAnselm (talk) 07:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Template syntax questions
1. At the top of Bar chart, there is the code: ... Isn't this the same thing as: ... (and faster)?

2. Is there a way to assign a value to a parameter internally so it can be used repeatedly after that in the template? I'm trying to avoid doing the same calculation or comparison multiple times. For example, instead of: ...colspan= ... ...colspan= ... ...colspan=

I'd like to do something like: ...colspan= ... ...colspan= ... ...colspan=

3. (Not directly a template issue) How do I properly put two pieces of text into one table cell, with the first aligned left and the second aligned right, appearing like:

I tried setting the cell value to: Some text 100↓

The span markup comes through in the HTML but the browser just ignores it and renders the two together, aligned left:

The only reasonable solution I can think of is to make it into two cells, as I did to make the sample appear correctly above, but this adds a lot of complication that I'd rather not deal with if there's a better solution.

Thanks in advance for any guidance! —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 15:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Found broken template: Template:Acronym
This template appears to be broken: Template:Acronym. I was on the article A.C.A.B. and looking to see if there was a template for "look this article up on Acronym Finder", the same way there is for IMDB, etc. But this one appears busted somehow. Suggestions? MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:33, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Works just fine for me. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 01:57, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Metatemplating
I'm thinking about creating a project for metatemplating. It's an underused technique that can greatly streamline the templating process. I even use metametatemplates. I've made several interesting (meta)metatemplates, most of which are listed on each userspace template's page (Example: User:Zenexer/Templates/includeonly). Some have moved to the  namespace, and don't have that list of links.

Some more documentation about metatemplating would be nice: the templates that already existed weren't created with metatemplating in mind. For example, 1x is marked as a sandbox-related template, even though it can be used for metatemplating. (The  method tends to be used instead, however.)  Templates such as (( were apparently designed to make the display of certain text easier, even though they shouldn't be used to escape text for display, since they will evaluate after one substitute and another substitute/transclusion.

A good example of metatemplating is User:Zenexer/Templates/tft. The code might be complex, but it does a great job of generating template code in a standard format. A nice aspect of this form of metatemplating is that it largely relies on substitution, with the resulting code being simple, well-organized, standardized, and without many nested transclusions. It wouldn't be possible without quite a bit of metatemplating and metametatemplating.

Any comments/advice?

—Zenexer &#91;talk&#93; 06:12, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, (( and it's sisters are for passing those template/table syntax elements from a subtemplate. They are actually intended to be evaluated, just not in the template where they are found. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 06:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, that's how I use them (and I'm sure that I'm not alone), but the doc doesn't really make that clear. It'd be nice to have more documentation on this. —Zenexer &#91;talk&#93; 14:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

A template for counting things
Well, that was very simply said. Is there a template that functions like the # sign? As far as I know, that sign functions only if stacked like this:


 * 1) Thing Number One
 * 2) Thing Number Two
 * 3) Thing Number Three

Otherwise, it starts counting all over again, as in:


 * 1) Thing Number One
 * Thing Number Two


 * 1) Thing Number Three

Is there a template that can be used instead of the # sign, i.e. in situations where the sign doesn't do the job properly? I hope I was clear enough. Thanks. Surtsicna (talk) 20:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I get it. You coded


 * 1) Thing Number One
 * Thing Number Two

The restart counting is a problem I encounterd too, and had to solve manualy. Still, you example uses an extra indent (colon) for "Thing Number Two", and therefor logically should not be numbered two. At that indent (paragraph) level, it must be "1" (ort "1.1").
 * 1) Thing Number Three
 * I do not know of such a template. -DePiep (talk) 21:00, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Double up the hashes:


 * 1) First thing
 * 2) Sub-entity of first thing
 * 3) deeper level
 * 4) second sub-entity of first thing
 * 5) Second thing. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:25, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * (S)he did that with the folowing code:
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Redrose, in code: -DePiep (talk) 21:59, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) First thing (expect 1)
 * 2) Sub-entity of first thing (expect 1.1)
 * 3) deeper level (expect 1.1.1)
 * 4) second sub-entity of first thing (expect 1.2)
 * 5) Second thing (expect 2)

Thank you, but I should've been more straightforward. I'm wondering if it's possible to use a template or a code instead of manually inserting and changing numbers in lists such as line of succession to the British throne, line of succession to the Danish throne, etc. Since the birth or death of a person in the line affects the positions of all people who follow that person in the line, users have to manually change numbers attached to names of all those people. I'm a noob, but I'm sure you know of a better solution. Surtsicna (talk) 08:46, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, these throne sequence calculations have a different logic than just (straightforward) indented paragraph numbering. For example, local laws can say "oldest son" or "oldest child". To incorporate that numbering, we would need a template that requires family and (countries) law information and so, and from there program the numbering. Of course it could be done, but it is a hell of a job. And editors using it (usually royalty knowers) would be asked to provide information in a way likely beyond their comfort zone. I think those editors are more at ease with manual editing. Having said that, we should not forget that your question is valid. -DePiep (talk) 14:10, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Why does a listing with "#" not work for that? VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 20:02, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The  wikimarkup creates an item in [//www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-ol-element.html#the-ol-element a HTML ordered list], starting a fresh list if one does not already exist, or if you go one level deeper (such as by using   row after a   row). At a given level, the item numbers are sequential; when a fresh list is started, the item numbers commence at 1. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

You might find what you're looking for here User:Pee_Tern/Sandbox/Template/autonumbered_list/doc it looks really rather good, but the user (Pee_Tern) who did the work looks to be inactive and there is a small bug which means I can't quite get it to work in the main space. Someone from this project may be able to get it to work (and preserve all the formatting) though. EdwardLane (talk) 10:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Map problem
In case anyone is interested: Template talk:Location map Bantayan. benzband ( talk ) 20:31, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * just passed a mention of this to wikiproject maps too as presumably someone there may be familiar with the template. EdwardLane (talk) 11:15, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * ok thanks :) benzband  ( talk ) 17:06, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Help, please?
Hello. Anyone here able to assist with this, please? (The request is currently at the end of the thread, beginning "Hello again. Thanks for the support...") 213.246.91.158 (talk) 12:02, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I had a look and gave feedback, an admin required to actually make the change - and they should obviously check I got it right first too. EdwardLane (talk) 10:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for looking, but, as indicated there, I don't think what you suggested works, unfortunately. Can you or anyone else revisit it, please? 213.246.91.158 (talk) 18:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

template parameters wizard
to avoid dispersing the discussion over too many pages, please review Village pump (idea lab). קיפודנחש (talk) 20:34, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Request for comments: Establish standards for version history tables in software articles
I'd like to introduce the Template:Version template to Wikipedia with the goal to establish one standard for version history tables (or lists). It simplifies creation of release histories, standardizes release stages and makes the content more accessible.

Please comment on the template talk page (there already is some discussion). Thanks for your contribution. --Jesus Presley (talk) 02:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Template size
Is anyone else concern with the size of this template? I dont think we need to link everything do we? The history section is so bloated its confusing.Moxy (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

User:YellowPegasus
FYI, is removing the specialized classes from various template messages and replacing it with class wikitable. -- 70.24.247.127 (talk) 22:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject India
Need some assistance fixing WikiProject India. If you use the active code setting hyderabad=yes does not work. I made some changes in sandbox related to TF numbers (note also made some other changes) and now mangalore=yes does not work. Is there a limit on number of parameters?--Traveler100 (talk) 12:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Largely answered at Template talk:WikiProject India except for one point: as stated in its documentation, supports a maximum of ten taskforces. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

RfC at Template:Trademark
Hello. An RFC in requires additional input from community. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 15:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Clans
I think we need one. They all seem makeshift, like Rathore. Can anyone help? Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:24, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Stoopid 2uestion
Do templates work in when created in userspace pages, like userboxes do? If so is there anything special that need be done, other than providing a path when calling it, e.g.  ?
 * Simpler: don't even add the path. Just enter on a userpage: . As you would do in an article. -DePiep (talk) 14:09, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This particular template isn't for use in userspace, but in any case how will the system know where to find a template that isn't in the template namespace, without the path? RiverStyx23 16:00, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, I got it the other way around. So you want to use a page in userspace (starting with User:) elsewhere as we do with usually template pages (starting with Template:). Then indeed, you do: 1. use the curly brackets (because that says in wikicode: "transclude (i.e., live copy) that content to this page, on this place". And this time write the full pagename as it appears on top of that page (the default is: adding "Template:"). You can use parameters.
 * So it would be: &rarr;

RiverStyx23 16:34, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And that is what you wrote above in the first place ;-) So the answer is: yes. Safe way to proceed is to copy the full page name exactly from the page name top. -DePiep (talk) 16:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Um, er, ahem. Are you a template guru? If so would you be willing to look at my first effort? It is at Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Template:OnProd. Thanks
 * I'm happy doing templates yes :-). As you saw, I have more difficulty reading people's questions :-) I'll take a look. Now please don't start a good question (or even a serious bad ones) with "stoopid" any more? -DePiep (talk) 17:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * On your link.
 * Your linked page should work as a template on other pages (testpages!) as expected, except: any template can be programmed to behave different in Article space or (say) WP, Template, x_Talk space. e.g., they can add/skip categories or be shown different per namespace (especially in the deletion topic you are on). Template Ombox (you used) could be such one very likely.
 * I am not familiar enough with subst: and safesubst: (learn that well and you are the guru). What I know is that if they are mandatory, there is a test (procedure or trick) that shows red error text: "you should subst: for this template" {{try good example {{tl|Template for discussion}}: try freely without using {tlx|subst:}} in your /sandbox))
 * (minor): as you might have understood, the "/Template:" text halfway your page title is your freedom, and does not trigger the WP-server into anything special (hey, it's your userspace). Always: only the first one like User: matters WP technically, and a blank one always means "mainspace" = "article space". All ".. talk" spaces are different too (but they can read easily whose talkpage they are: from "Category talk:" to "Category:" is an available function in templates.) -DePiep (talk) 17:45, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone is able to create Infobox athletics event?
As this fr:Modèle:Infobox Épreuve d'athlétisme. --Kasper2006 (talk) 16:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Responded at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Athletics. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Sister project links
There is currently a proposal at Template talk:Sister project links that is about having Wikivoyage links seen by default in the Sister project links template. Looking for many to get involved as the change would effect  thousands of page.Moxy (talk) 00:28, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Broken by the 1st century
Natural disasters by year is broken by years in the 1st century - they are catted in the 1th century, see eg. Could someone fix it? Might be worth checking other by year templates to see if they have the same problem. Le Deluge (talk) 22:25, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I've found another - Disasters by year <g> Le Deluge (talk) 22:26, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to set  when you use these templates. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 01:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that seems to break the Category:62 disasters. I'll take a closer look and see if we can't get a workaround. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 01:15, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Got it fixed now. I'll look through and see how many other X by year templates need updating. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 01:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Cheers.Le Deluge (talk) 12:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Template category names
Hello. Apologies if this isn't the best or appropriate place to post the following.

I've become more aware that there seems to be inconsistencies in how categories for "navigational" templates are named: "X navbox templates", "X navigational templates", "X navigational boxes", etc.

Since (1) "navigational boxes" doesn't include the word "template" and (2) "navbox"es (usually from the Template:Navbox family) aren't the only kind of navigational template, I could start redirecting/amending these names to "X navigation al templates" – yes, no?

Alternatively, as the (vast) majority of templates that are readily visible and not inline are "navigational" inasmuch as they offer links to follow – even infoboxes and sidebars – perhaps navigational templates are simply Wikipedia articles' default kind of (non-inline, readily visible) template, so could assume the default "X templates" name format while other types take "X [type] templates" names ("X infobox templates", "X sidebar templates", "X inline templates", etc)..?

CsDix (talk) 02:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I would draw the following contrasts to distinguish navboxes - a comprehensive and organized listing of all content on a narrow subject, eg, ; navigational templates - includes navboxes, but contrastively used for a listing of main articles concerning a broad subject matter, ; infoboxes - an organized listing of critical information on the article subject, and given all its information in an article, ; and succession/chronology templates - for navigating to nearby years/officeholders/items/releases/etc, usually with a middle link to the full list/category of all navigation items, eg . As a general rule, infoboxes should always be named Infobox X, where X is either a wikiproject name, or simple, broad subject matter. Navboxes and other navigational templates tend to be a bit more eclectically named - when based on the navbox template, sometimes as Navbox X, sometimes with just the subject name. Other nav templates often get named either with the subject name, or X navigation. If you're not seeing misleading names, it's probably best to keep the templates where they are. There's no guarantee that you aren't causing double redirects, and oftentimes a given subject area will have several nav templates, each with a contrastive name. If you start moving them around without asking the people who have created and implemented those templates, you can screw up the workflow of projects. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 10:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your thoughts, Vanisaac – but, to make sure I haven't misread them, are you thinking only of individual templates' names, or the names of categories for them (or both?). I can understand having more than one type of name for "navigational" templates, but if, ultimately, a group of templates with such variations in their names should nonetheless best sit together in a single category, I'm suggesting that "X navigation templates" (or even just "X templates", making the other (less ubiquitous) types of template require the more specific category names) serve this purpose, as it includes both the key words "template" and "navigation". CsDix (talk) 23:17, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I completely misread your post. No, I absolutely think that category names should probably either be "X navigational templates", to include navboxes, sidebars, succession and chronology, etc; while "X information (or infobox) templates" would be for things like infoboxes and standard tables. Then you'd have "X notification templates", "X inline templates", and save the "category:X templates" as a super heading for all the different navigation, information, inline, caution/warning, templates for a particular project or subject area, so Category:Writing system templates contains all of the templates for writing systems, but the ISO and Roro templates would go into a "category:Writing systems inline templates", if subcategorization were necessary, which would itself have a parent Category:Writing system templates. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 23:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Understood. On the other hand, though, that might (must?) mean there would be many "X templates" categories whose contents would only be one, two, or, at most, a handful of "X [type] templates" subcategories, i.e. categories that, to the user, may seem to push the templates they carry a further step away. Looking again at the template categories as they currently stand, I wonder if this is the thinking behind what appears to be the default state of the template category template adorning many of them: "The pages listed in this category are meant to be navigational (navbox) templates..." In other words, "navigational (navbox)" templates appear here to be taken as a default, i.e. to be implied by the "X templates" category name. How do you read this situation? (Hope its description here makes sense.) CsDix (talk) 12:12, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * No, it really doesn't make any sense, but that is just as likely due to my lack of sense as to your writing nonsense; we are reaching the end of my experience and knowledge. When it comes to the philosophy of categories, I approach it much the same way as other editors approach templates: useful tools to use knowledgeably, but fundamentally an arcane branch of sorcery to be feared and despised. I would ask that others better versed in the vagueries of categorization to please step forward, if they lurk here. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 13:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * On reading it again, I'm inclined to agree... What it boils down to, though, is whether there's an extra step through the categories before reaching individual templates – not, I'm guessing, Wikipedia's most pressing problem.
 * Meanwhile, I may try renaming one or two "X navigational boxes" categories to "X navigational templates" categories to see what happens (i.e. if anyone objects). Thanks again for your input. CsDix (talk) 20:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

"Navigational templates" and "navigational boxes"
Hello again. Are there m/any kinds of navigational templates that aren't navigational boxes, i.e. that aren't box/square-shaped?

I have the feeling I should be able to think of some, but, right now, can't. CsDix (talk) 00:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Lua and the Module: namespace
Just wanted to let people know that English Wikipedia now has access to the WP:Lua scripting language - a more versatile programming language for implementing template functions - from the "Module:" namespace. Documentation is available from mediawiki, and Lua scripts can be accessed via the extension. Several templates have already been converted to Lua-based implementations, and work is currently underway implementing more robust string templates. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 12:06, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Thought about Pending Changes level two
I'm currently floating an idea at the chocolate factory about using PC2 on a subset of WP:HRT. Since this is the wikiproject on templates I thought I'd drop a note here soliciting input. Regards, Crazynast 10:47, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Difficulty explaining why extra links are pointless
Hi. I could really appreciate some assistance at Template talk:Documentation where an editor wants to add three more links to Template:Documentation/end box - links that, in my opinion, are pointless since they're already there, just with a different URL syntax. I have made what may be my last reply there: if the other editor posts again I shall probably ignore it.

Of course I may just have completely misunderstood the original request. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:25, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, Redrose. I've just added my version of what you're saying there (I don't think you've misunderstood anything – unless I have), so here's hoping 46.45.182.142 will be satisfied. CsDix (talk) 00:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:40, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

United States templates pre-1776
There's several US "date" templates which generate United States categories before 1776 rather than eg the Thirteen Colonies - could someone have a look? I've already asked over at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States Le Deluge (talk) 10:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Navbox links that link to other navboxes
Is this ok? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 11:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Is that a huge no, a generally no, a sometimes no, or what? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:44, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The linking is of tremendous help in a country like India. A state-wise navbox is sometimes impractical, not to talk of a country-wide navbox. These are in reality sub-navboxes, linked with each other. - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:50, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I guess we should provide an example of what we're talking about: Cities and towns in Hyderabad district, India

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:57, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Anna Frodesiak gracefully accepted that links with other templates can stay (User talk:Anna Frodesiak/archive33). However, now another editor, Bejnar, as noted in Template talk:Cities and towns in Mahabubnagar district, wants to remove the links. Obviously, I don't want to lose the links. Can some one suggest what I should do, if they are removed? - Chandan Guha (talk) 05:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I am a bit surprised at the lack of response. Is there a rule or guideline? Am I right or wrong? Although, nothing has happened so far, there seems to be doubts and questions in the minds of some editors. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:01, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've seen a few navbox/sidebar templates with link/s to other navbox/sidebar templates, usually preceded by a template icon (i.e. Template name). Doesn't seem a bad idea if the template/s linked is/are pertinent..? CsDix (talk) 03:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it is a good idea. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:47, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Linking to template space in an article is not done. (But I could not find a guideline saying so). Template space is not a content space. What to do? For example, Template:Hyderabad topics that is in the example here could be changed into something like Category:Hyderabad topics. Or the article Hyderabad topics should have that template (transcluded). Btw, the template should better be named Template:Hydrabad navigation. -DePiep (talk) 11:48, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No rule?? Then why it cannot be done? There probably are hundreds of such templates with linkages to other templates. As regards Template:Hyderabad topics, there are numerous such topics templates. Is there any problem in understanding it? These are amongst the most useful templates in India. - Chandan Guha (talk) 12:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It can be done (clearly), but it still might not be advisable. Simply, in the example: if the content of Template:Hyderabad topics is relevant for the template topic (title) Cities, towns and locations in Hyderabad district, then is should be in here fully, not linked. If not, out with the link, because it is not part of topic that is navigated. -DePiep (talk) 17:15, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The link to Template:Hyderabad topics is particularly relevant in the Template:Cities and towns in Hyderabad district, India because the former contains links to neighbourhoods in Hyderabad and Secunderabad. There are some editors who think that cities and towns should be part of the topics template. See Template talk:Cities and towns in Mahabubnagar district. That makes it obviously relevant. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I have given the matter a second thought. The matter now stands thus: it is alright to link templates but that should be relevant. I think that the shift in focus to relevance makes things more subjective and drawing out straight cut lines becomes more difficult. What have I (and many ohers) being doing? I have taken the Indian district (or sometimes the Indian division) as a unit. Then I have divided it into two parts: one navbox had the cities, towns and localities, and anoher navbox had the other topics. I thought that one navbox containing both would have been too cumbersome. Now, comes the debateable part. I have interlinked the templates district-wise. I have thought of the state as one unit with numerous sub-templates all interlinked. You just cannot have a single template for a whole state, it would be unmanageably long. I have also interlinked the topics part and the cities and town part. In some states like Andhra Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh, I have not been able to put up the topics part as yet. Now, what wrong have I done that some people want to tear my work down? - Chandan Guha (talk) 03:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the purpose of templates is to help navigation within "article space", your template is a navigational tool within "template space"! besides templates should not be used to create list of links. Therefore they can not be used to create list of templates (like you did) One possible solution is that for example in case of Anatapur you put a link to article "list of cities in Anatapur" instead.Kiatdd (talk) 05:29, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "Within article space", well, that's a new jugglery with words! My template links help in finding articles. That is the purpose of a navigational box, and my templates fulfill them in all respects. Navigational templates are "lists" in some form. Which rule prohibits me from having one or more lists of navigational boxes or categories in another navigational box? I think editors opposing template links should get to-gether and prohibit template linking OR accept it gracefully. - Chandan Guha (talk) 10:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * With due respect for a number of editors who have genuine reservation about inter-linking of districts in navboxes, I have removed all inter-district links from the Andhra Pradesh cities and towns navboxes. I have also also requested for the deletion of the Hyderabad navbox. I will try to get on to other such navboxes but it is a huge task, and so I may not able to rectify all soon. I take this opportunity to thank all those who participated in the debate. I think, with this the matter can be considered closed. - Chandan Guha (talk) 00:56, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

About a series of Islamic templates
This discussion is about a series of templates about Islamic figures, largely created by the same user, Ibrahim ebi. These templates seemingly violate many commonly accepted design guidelines, including a few official ones.

First of all, many seem to include an infobox within the navbox in a matryoshka kind of way (usually called 'general informations') as can be seen in the template Ibrahim for example. This nesting can reach staggering proportions, as in here. This is inappropriate, as while the navbox should be replicated in several pages, the infobox should be used only in the article about its main subject (MOS:INFOBOX); at the same time, navboxes are not given as prominent a position as infoboxes. In other words, they shouldn't be used together, and it would be better to just separate them.

Second, as this guideline recommends, the default colour schemes and formatting for templates should not be altered without good reason. This other guideline states that default colours should be used in cases where the subject of the navbox is not normally identified with a particular color (eg for cases like Isa or the Quran, which are not usually associated with any one color).

They also lack the classic v-t-e links (which were present in some earlier revisions), and the description page for the calligraphic decorations are not easily reachable as clicking on them leads to the main article, which makes them harder to edit.

By looking for these templates and reading their discussion pages, I noticed that I'm not the first to have identified these problems. Several other editors have previously raised many of these issues, as can be seen here, here, here and especially in this discussion. I'm not sure if I should inform them of this discussion, as I would not want to appear to be canvassing, but I don't exclude the possibility if there is an insufficient number of uninvolved editors in the discussion.

There are several templates with these issues:
 * Template:Abu Bakr
 * Template:Ali
 * Template:Khalid ibn al-Walid
 * Template:Sahabah
 * Template:Umar
 * Template:Uthman
 * Template:Wives of Muhammad
 * Template:Ibrahim
 * Template:'Isa
 * Template:Adam
 * Template:Muhammad
 * Template:Musa
 * Template:Nuh
 * Template:Quran
 * Template:Allah
 * Template:Aisha
 * Template:Hadith
 * Template:Israfil
 * Template:Khadijah
 * Template:Fatimah
 * Template:Islamic prophets
 * ....probably a few more as well.

In short, my proposals for these templates are: --eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:27, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) to separate the infobox ("general informations") from the navbox;
 * 2) to remove all the custom colours and formatting;
 * 3) to add back the navbar links;
 * 4) to restore the link to the description pages for the calligraphic images.
 * Yeah, I think except for possibly Islamic prophets and Wives of Muhammad, which could be salvaged as navigation templates, these all need to be deleted as a hard coding of infobox parameters. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 10:17, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * When separated navbox and infobox, only the navbox should have the v-t-e box. Not the infobox (because: you can edit the infobox content on the article page right away). -DePiep (talk) 10:53, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps then we should first divide those who serve some purpose as navboxes and should be salvaged and the ones to take to Tfd.

From a first cursory look I think Abu Bakr, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Ibrahim, Adam, Nuh, Aisha, Israfil, Khadijah, Fatimah can be safely deleted as they have little beyond 'general information', ie the infobox part. Allah includes little other than the 99 names (none of which are articles); Sahabah would simply be too large to be practical as a navbox (there are hundreds of 'companions' in this list.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Firstly please do clarify to me the point of not nesting the template secondly I guess instead of nominating the template for deletion we better remove the content that are against the policy to sought the matter out one by one.
 * Starting with the Template:Allah <Br/>
 * The problem is with he content "Names and Attributes" so it will be removed apart from this if there is another problem then point it out. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 22:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Infoboxes and navboxes have different purposes: an infobox is meant to summarize key facts in the article in which it appears (MOS:INFOBOX); a navbox is a grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation (WP:NAV). They are also placed in different parts of the articles' layout. Additionally, infoboxes are normally included directly in the wikicode of an article, instead of within a separate template, precisely because they are meant to be used in only one article. Which is why it's a good idea to separate them. As for other changes I would recommend, you can see a few more just above, especially including the removal of custom colours and formatting, for reasons I have already specified.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:03, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * OK I got the point but i think i need a little time to actually separate them. I would start by one at a time. I hope there would be no issue regarding the background color. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 23:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I implemented the changes I suggested in the template Quran to give you (and to other editors) an idea of what they will look like. As for the time factor, I can help changing them too, of course, so it won't take as much.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe if we make the template as here it would be better instead of removing the sub heading colors too.In your version the headings are getting mixed. Meanwhile leaving others to decide. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 23:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: a few articles about the main subjects of the templates (like Abu Bakr, Ali, Khalid ibn al-Walid) already use an infobox, which makes the infoboxes-within-navboxes idea even more questionable to my eye.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:42, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The idea for that was to make them look as here which you have criticized earlier. Further the template are being used in articles as Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza, Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr, Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr, Abdu'l-Rahman ibn Abu Bakr etc and helps to link them. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 16:06, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Guidelines are clear, according to template usage policy templates should not do the work of article content in the main article namespace, content must be placed directly into the article. see Wikipedia:Template_namespace line14. The series of templates mentioned have too much content and in some cases such as template:Israfil and template:Ibrahim they are essentially article content (something that belongs to article space, not template space). I suggest deleting them. Templates: template:Muhammad, template:Quran, template:Fatimah, etc should be restored to their original versions (which can be found here,here, and here). Fixing and deleting the templates is not easy and needs cooperation from involved editors.Kiatdd (talk) 19:13, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The older version of Template:Quran in which you are supporting your view holds a lot of errors firstly the Sura and Ayah are not mushaf they are Quranic division or classification (chapters and verses) and quite more errors. The older version also has limited links and it would not be a good idea to cut down the links just because someone wants to do that.The size of the previous template has a lot of vertical space and limited links so it should be better to use collapsing and increase the number of links.So i don't feel any issue in Template:Quran right now. And as far as the other templates are concerned the use of categorization of links (Infobox type) need a consensus whether or not they should be used. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 15:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean exactly by categorization here, the templates are not transcluding any categories now, or are they? Anyway, it would not be a bad idea to limit the number of links in each infobox, some are huge uncollapsed (which is especially problematic for the mobile version), if there's a need to keep all the links it would be better to break the templates in smaller bits, ie from a single Quran template to one for the suras, one for the translations, etc.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: based on the suggestions of other editors, I have nominated some of these templates (ie, those which in my opinion can't be converted to navboxes) for deletion, the discussion can be found here.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:49, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

RfC: Quran, Allah, Muhammad and other Islamic templates
These templates about Islamic figures are peculiarly designed. Should they be made more similar to other templates, and if so how? eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * From the discussion, there seems to be a broad consensus that infoboxes and navboxes should be separated. For doing that, I think it would be better to fill in the pre-existing Template:Infobox person rather than creating a new one for each case. It can be seen used within an article here.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Extensive assistance required from he/she who dares
Hello I require help on several fronts. Firstly: I've created a route map in my Sandbox of the proposed Northern Suburbs Railway. I'm somewhat unhappy with what I've created and I feel this template clearly demonstrates the limits of my knowledge on the subject. When looking at the map you'll see a River (Derwent River), A road which passes through several Roundabouts (Brooker Highway), and a road passing through the built up areas of Hobart (Main Road). I've designed the map this way to demonstrate to the unkowing reader, the intimate relationship the 3 major north/south Transport corridors share. I want to be able to label each (state their names), but felt I couldn't do this without cluttering the route map. If someone can help with this first problem, I'd be forever in their debt. Another problem is I wanted to use highway icons for the Brooker Highway, but couldn't find all the right icons I needed. Can anyone help with this issue? While I'd like both those problems fixed I feel only one solved would be enough to publish. Secondly I have been scouring Wikipedia looking for clearly set guidlines on Route maps with no success (not with this question anyway). If you look at the Northern Suburbs Railway article, you will notice an already existing, far more detailed route map. Ideally, I'd like to add this new route map under the infobox as an additional route map, but if more than one route map is not the Rule of thumb, then I will need to merge the 2 route maps as best that can be done and will also need help with this. If you have solutions for me, please jump straight on to my Sandbox and make the needed changes. I learn alot better seeing the code rather than have someone explain it to me. Anyone up for the challenge? Regards, Wiki ian 09:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * These "route maps" are normally called "route diagrams", because they are not scale maps, and with the limited shapes and sizes that are available, can never be to scale. They are often stored as templates, hence the term "route diagram templates", or RDTs. General information is at WP:RDT.
 * Your route diagram seems overcomplicated. Is it intended to show a road system, or a rail system? Whichever it is, the other mode should be reduced in prominence. Many RDTs for rail lines omit roads altogether; others show the roads only where they actually cross the rail line. Template:Medway Towns RDT shows no roads and one river - and it only shows the River Medway because it is a significant feature of the area which heavily influenced the rail planners. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:15, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for the reply. I have already created a detailed route diagram of the proposed Northern Suburbs Railway. The point of this exercise was an attempt to demostrate the unique relationship the Southern Railway Line has with the Brooker Highway and the Main Road. If I can only choose one of the 3 routes to illustrate, I wouldn't choose any, as the point of this was to display all 3. Am I wasting my time with this template? Regards, Wiki ian 14:27, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Knowing Hobart - I think it is fine - just remind the reader, the left side is the river, it is top to south, bottom to north. sats 15:48, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

False precision - need help please:
Currency translation at Template:INRConvert ought to be just sufficient for readers to appreciate the order of magnitude. I don't know what degree of rounding takes place, but looking at the examples, and the fluctuation in currencies over any period of time, it seems that we ought to default to a number of sf in rounding at one or perhaps two notches lower than it is at present. The template has far too many loops for me to be able to change this without seriously messing the template up. Thanks, --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 07:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten the template to default to two significant figures. J IM ptalk·cont 02:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

the if displaying is a puzzle
I'm trying to add a parameter to a template, but the sandbox result seems to have an "if" (with a hash sign etc.) that it probably shouldn't have. What did I do wrong? In case the sandbox and testcases pages have been changed by someone else doing something else, please see my last sandbox revision and my last testcases revision. My goal is to have the new parameter, "grade_preK", behave just like the parameter "gradeK", being optional and taking the same kind of value. I have not updated the documentation since there does not seem to be a documentation sandbox to go with a template sandbox; I assume the live doc does not get updated until the live template is. I tried spelling the parameter as "grade_pre-K" (hyphenated) but that was no better. Except for the "if" stuff, the testcases page section looks satisfactory. The sandbox also shows a box linking to the pre-kindergarten article, and I don't understand why it's there and I don't need it. Thank you for helping. Nick Levinson (talk) 17:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * With you added 17 opening braces but only 15 closing braces. They must balance. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:23, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops (I knew about that type of logic). That fixed it. Thanks. Nick Levinson (talk) 19:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Template assigns year categories before somewhere existed
Hi guys. I came across a problem in, which uses the template GaelicGamesByYear. It assigns its article to which is clearly nonsense as Northern Ireland didn't exist until 3 May 1921. At the moment it looks like the template is testing for the existence of the category before assigning it, which would work in theory, but obviously isn't quite good enough in the real world. I will request deletion of the pre-1921 categories as well. As an aside, uses Northern Ireland by year which spits out nonsense categories such as  and  so that could do with some attention as well. TIA. Le Deluge (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It only adds the categories if they exist. The merger of the categories is being discussed at Categories for discussion/Log/2013 March 22, and that will solve the problem. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Marriage template
I don't know if this has been discussed or not, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something someone has already said but is there anyway to put in (present) for the couples that are still together, it looks weird and not uniform when an infobox looks like:


 * John Doe (m. 1993 - 1999)
 * Bob Dole (m. 2000)

can't the template be updated to have (present) put in there? Like this:


 * John Doe (m. 1993 - 1999)
 * Bob Dole (m. 2000 - present)

I think it would look nicer and better. Is there any way to change this? Lady Lotus (talk) 15:04, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's certainly possible, but you're talking about a style issue that affects many articles. This should be discussed at a MOS talk page or a village pump first. — Bility (talk) 21:49, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a style thing but I've tried bringing it up on other talk pages, but no one responded. How much consensus would I need in order to gain approval for the change? Lady Lotus (talk) 23:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So after looking into it, I think WP:DATED is pretty clear that we shouldn't use "–present". However, the marriage template should be updated to include microformats for the dates and perhaps use 's categorization of dated statements. To answer your question, if you can't get a consensus due to lack of participation, you get to be bold and just make your change and wait for someone to revert you. With templates though, due to the number of articles affected (thousands in the case of ), you should be extra careful and should probably take this to a village pump for a wider audience. — Bility (talk) 00:07, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it. And in the case of me being bold, could I get away with just not using a template at all and just writing it as such when changing it within the infobox? Lady Lotus (talk) 00:46, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * yes, you should certainly feel free to not use the template, especially considering this discussion. Frietjes (talk) 17:24, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The template is again nominated for deletion. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Infinite offices
I'm trying to add Template:Ordination to as many pages as possible. The one problem I have is that there is a need for a lot of names in the 'Bishops consecrated by X as principal consecrator' section. Short of adding hundreds of parameters to the template, is there a way of allowing one to simply change the number when filing out the template rather than that and adding the individual parameters to the template itself? Sorry if that is unclear.  Mangwanani  (talk) 18:09, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * It may be possible to add an "additional rows" param to contain additional table rows for additional bishops, or to provide alternate templates that are more like succession boxes (i.e. header, row, and footer templates). Did you realize that 90 bishops (not 20) are currently supported? I've update the docs to reflect this. —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 18:23, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I've added it up to 90. But this is very tedious work and would like it to support as many as possible. I'm trying to add it to Pope John Paul II's page. I'm currently on 130 and that only goes up to 1988! I have to go until 2003.....  Mangwanani  (talk) 18:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I undid your revision to the page as it's easier to copy and paste it as it when editing. Few bishops have consecrated as many as JPII....  Mangwanani  (talk) 18:30, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * your best option is to do what is done for Module:navbox which has no limit on the number of groups or lists. Frietjes (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Would someone please help with that? It's way above me....  Mangwanani  (talk) 21:08, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I would try asking Toohool first who has been working on Module:Infobox. Frietjes (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Need help with optional parameter
At Half-elven family tree I'd like to make the legend below the family tree an optional parameter that will be shown by default but can be switched off with  or something similar. But I can't seem to find a way to add this function. Any ideas would be most welcome. De728631 (talk) 22:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * see [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AHalf-elven_family_tree&diff=555127731&oldid=555124685 here], invoke with Frietjes (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thanks a lot. De728631 (talk) 23:04, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Help with template linking template
Hi all,

I'm trying to improve tlg so it supports linking to arbitrary namespaces without the  parameter. My working copy is at. It works quite well already, with one exception: When I want to link to category or image namespace I have to put an additional colon in front of the link (otherwise I'd embed the image or category). When using an image or a category as a template no colon is needed however.

I'm trying to do this with a switch statement. However this seems to completely break my template. Suppose I want to end up with the code. This is a minimal example of what I'm trying: 

And here's how it renders:



Funny, isn't it? Somehow the colon gets interpreted as an indention instead of being parsed with the link. Any idea what's going wrong and how I could fix it? --Patrick87 (talk) 04:23, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yup. Just put the colon in there by default; no switch needed. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 04:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, probably the example was too minimal:
 * If the user passes the parameter  I want to link to
 * If the user passes the parameter  I want to link to
 * If the user passes the parameter  I want to link to either   or   (it doesn't matter in this case as you wrote).
 * So I assume I don't get along without a parser function? --Patrick87 (talk) 04:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * What I'm saying is, stick the colon with the opening brackets, and let your parser do its thing afterwards. Eg,  - : VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 04:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's trivial . Don't now why I didn't see that earlier. Thanks for your Help! --Patrick87 (talk) 05:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It really helps to approach it from the outside looking in. When you are down-and-dirty with the code, and it's not working like you think it should, you sometimes just can't see the tree right in front of you for the forest. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 05:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Returning to the original problem: this is a known feature. When a parser function (such as  yields a result that begins with certain characters (generally characters that have a different meaning when used at the start of a line), it assumes that a newline should be inserted before that character. Characters known to trigger this behaviour include: asterisk; colon; hash; semicolon. In certain circumstances, you can defeat this by inserting a null HTML tag such as  before the special character:
 * 
 * And here's how it renders:


 * 
 * unfortunately it doesn't take that as a valid link. The default behaviour is unlikely to change because too many templates depend upon it. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I updated the template tlg now. Maybe you could keep an eye on if I broke anything. I did various tests though and am quite confident everything works out as intended. --Patrick87 (talk) 14:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Loop through parameters from one template to another
Hi all, it's me again!

As the heading says: Is there a proper way to loop through parameters from one template to another? Reason is I want to use tlg from tlb and tlxb respectively by only setting the necessary named parameters and looping through the unnamed ones (favorably with the same numbering).

Until recently something like  was used. The problem is that now accepts empty parameters and therefore shows a whole lot of pipe characters in this case. Therefore I'd need to loop through only set parameters. But how should I do this?

Regards, --Patrick87 (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There are two things to consider. First, if you don't want an absent parameter to break stuff, you should put a pipe into the triple brace which receives the parameter value, i.e. use  instead of , see Help:Template. Second, such positional parameters might still be tested as "present" even when they're not, so it might be best to pass them through in the same manner as for named parameters, i.e. 1
 * Lastly: why are you [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&dir=prev&offset=20130519055730&limit=14&target=Patrick87&namespace=10 experimenting on live code]? Until the problems that you are experiencing are solved, please restore the  and  templates to the last working versions, and use the template sandboxes, i.e.   and, for the creation of experimental versions. There are links to these at the bottom of the template documentation. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * These templates were already broken some time ago, I didn't break them with my recent changes on them as you might think. Instead I was hoping to be able to fix them quickly but it turned out to be harder than I imagined.
 * As for the code you propose: I don't see how this might help in this case? As soon as I'm putting  I'll have parameter 1 set. Even if it wasn't supplied by user, it will be set (although empty) empty afterwards. --Patrick87 (talk) 22:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * A common method for testing and ignoring unset or empty but set parameters is   Good luck! Technical 13 (talk) 22:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This still doesn't allow me to pass only set parameters (empty or not) to the second template while keeping unset parameters unset, does it? --Patrick87 (talk) 23:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If that is what you want to do with it, it will...  Technical 13 (talk) 23:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No, sorry, it wont.
 * I'm creating an empty but set parameter with every pipe character. But as far as I can tell there s no possibility to put "conditional" pipe characters into a template? --Patrick87 (talk) 23:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * How about  VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 02:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I already tried that, but it doesn't work. The  isn't correctly recognized as a pipe character. Therefore one ends up with everything being interpreted as a single unnamed parameter. --Patrick87 (talk) 02:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ugh, you're right. I remember I tried it before and failed. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 03:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

If we're not able to find a solution to this problem I'll probably strip out the "empty parameter" functionality from tlg. It's not really useful anyway (actually I can't make up a use case for this functionality; why should I specify empty parameters like ?). With this part removed it's no problem anymore to pipe through the parameters (as they can be set but empty) and the template code should simplify a bit, too.

However I'm still open for any feedback. So if you've got another idea let me now! --Patrick87 (talk) 03:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * how about something like this? Frietjes (talk) 19:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I now want to be able to use from other templates and just loop through the specified parameters. Therefore set but empty parameters should stay set but empty. Unset parameters should stay unset. The last point seems not to be possible. --Patrick87 (talk) 00:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what your code actually does (since when used without – or also set but empty – parameters it essentially produces something like  and I don't know how the equal signs are treated in this case), however I'm afraid it doesn't work like all the suggestions before. An empty parameter isn't passed at all in this case (therefore essentially stripping out the "empty parameter" functionality) and this can be achieved much easier. --Patrick87 (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * the empty = do nothing. try  or . Frietjes (talk) 22:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I'm afraid you did not yet fully understand what I want to achieve. Your example does not allow to specify empty parameters. Consider  which produces  but should yield.
 * This works without problem when using directly:
 * @Frietjes: you can use to link to templates outside of Template: space, as in user:frietjes/example. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:55, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * yes, I know, but the page will be deleted soon. Frietjes (talk) 19:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I think I fully understand your question. It can be done, although I don't have the time or mental capacity to explain it.  Let me sleep on it and I'll try to answer your question tomorrow.  In the mean time, have yourself a few good reads to understand how templates work and such (looks like there is even some new material since I last read them):
 * m:Help:Template
 * m:Help:Advanced templates
 * mw:Help:Templates
 * Enjoy the reading that tells how to do what you want, but takes some time to understand and put into layman's terms. Technical 13 (talk) 00:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but you can save the work. I did it!

The code  is what I was searching for: Therefore in cases 1 and 2 the unnamed parameter 1 is set to the value passed to the template, whereas in case 3 an irrelevant named parameter "1dummy" receives an empty value. --Patrick87 (talk) 02:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) If parameter 1 is set and non-empty the equation is certainly true, outputs nothing, and the code expands to
 * 2) If parameter 1 is set and empty the equation is also true (empty string "" compared to ""), again outputs nothing, and the code expands to
 * 3) If parameter 1 is unset the equation is false ("  " compared to default parameter "x", outputs "dummy", and the code expands to
 * That is an elegant solution. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 03:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Counting items in numbered list
Is there any function or reference template for counting the number of items in an ordered list? (E.g., returning the number "13" from a numbered list of 13 items.) czar   &middot;   &middot;  00:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I would assume that is nigh-impossible, as the numbers are only generated at the user's end, by their webbrowser. (It receives a number of  lines (List (HTML)), and numbers them as they're rendered on our screen). (I could be utterly wrong though). –Quiddity (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * User has posted exactly the same question in three different places: Help desk; Help talk:Template; and here - we now have three answers, one being somewhat different from the other two. See also WP:MULTI. -- Red rose64 (talk) 07:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, since Rose has pointed everyone here. The final answer to your question is it can not be done at this time on Wikipedia with the templates and extensions currently available.  It "possibly" could be done with a Lua module if you are very technically inclined and capable of writing your own (there is one that could be copy and pasted and adapted so it wouldn't be a "lot" of coding per-say, but you would still have to know the basics of the language). Technical 13 (talk) 11:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * try this


 * it's not entirely robust, but it's a start. Frietjes (talk) 19:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow—excellent! Is there a way to have that list still display, but use the number as a variable to call elsewhere on the page? czar   &middot;   &middot;  17:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you are putting this all in a template. in which case you can pass the input to the expression provided above, and use the input elsewhere. if you really want help with this you should probably provide more details of exactly what you are trying to accomplish. Frietjes (talk) 19:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Based on this thread at WPVG, I'm looking to fill a progression bar using the count of items in a list. (E.g., counting the number of good articles here and displaying a progression bar on the project's main page. That list is updated manually.) The original intent is in the aforementioned thread—ultimately I'd like to track WPVG's essential article class assessment progress (even if that list has to be maintained manually), if anyone has any ideas. czar   &middot;   &middot;  09:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah-ha... Now I see what you are trying to do. My suggestion is this.  I see that you already have a populated category of Category:Video games good articles.  What I would do, is base your bar on a count of articles in the category (there are currently  articles in Category:Video games good articles which is a dynamic value using the  magic word which is an expensive parser function, so I don't recommend using it more than a couple of times on any page).  If you need some help in doing this, let me know, and I'll probably be free to help with this tomorrow or Wednesday (finishing up my last exam for the semester today and my brain is fried). Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 12:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Appreciated. I'm actually looking to count the number of essential articles as more become GA. My idea was to use a list of essential good articles (managed manually) similar to the good content list, and take the number of items for use in the progression bar. I'm out of town right now, but I'm going to play around with the above example once I return. czar   &middot;   &middot;  18:13, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Dealing with former (but not any longer) needed parameters
Since I rewrote some parts of tlg the former " " parameter is not necessary anymore to link to pages outside of the template namespace. It's therefore unused now.

My question: Is there some type of guideline on how to deal with transclusions where this parameter was used? Should I remove the surplus parameter from these transclusions for clarity or should it just be left in (it doesn't harm either)? --Patrick87 (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If it truly is superfluous now, then it should probably be removed. Depending on the transclusion count, you can either have someone do an WP:AWB fix, or put in a WP:Bot request. I imagine that tlg has way too many transclusions to do it semi-automated, so I'd do the bot request. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 18:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Despite the transclusion count the " " parameter is used in less than 20 pages (I was playing around with my own little bot ). --Patrick87 (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

"Support" and "Oppose" templates
Is there a reason that the and  templates from other projects (like Meta and Wikidata) don't exist here? They would be useful in talk-page settings. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:28, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * click on support and oppose to read the deletion logs. Frietjes (talk) 21:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * They don't say much. I could go to the TfD discussions, I guess.  But the latest item in either of the discussion logs is four years old.  This hasn't been discussed for a while.  Can you provide any context?  StevenJ81 (talk) 21:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * the main argument in the tfds is that they encourage voting, and discussions are generally WP:NOTAVOTE. Frietjes (talk) 21:48, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There's also ✅ and if you need any visual marker. --Patrick87 (talk) 22:01, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Patrick. I was mostly looking for a visual marker.
 * Frietjes, I'm not sure that sometimes-inappropriate use of a template justifies its exclusion even for appropriate purposes. However, (a) the templates Patrick suggested will suit my purpose, and (b) I get a sense that I will get nowhere fast if I try to resurrect the others.  In any event, thank you for the history and clarification.  StevenJ81 (talk) 22:10, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support: [[Image:Artículo bueno.svg|10px|middle|link=|alt= &#x2714; ]] Technical 13 (talk) gives his support for this section's subject at 22:24, 28 May 2013 (UTC). (result of ) is another less well known one because it is SUBST...
 * And I don't like it. Sorry Technical 13, but what you're using only works if everybody used it in a discussion and that's highly improbable. If you want to make a clear statement it's probably best to just use Support or Oppose somewhere in your text, using various different opinion markers won't aid clarity at all. --Patrick87 (talk) 23:30, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Visual markers are discouraged/deprecated because they encourage vote-counting and tribal/herd instincts. ("Just look at the sea of green on this proposal! I guess I won't read all these comments, I'll just add a green tickmark and follow the majority" etc etc worry worry).
 * Images are specifically discouraged because they can increase the size of each comment line (thereby making the page longer), and they can render after the text loads (making everything seem to take a longer time to load), and add cruft for screenreaders to get through, and probably other reasons that I can't think of offhand.
 * They are probably used and accepted on meta/commons/wikidata because those are multilingual projects, and symbols need less translation than words. (According to that 8 year old TfD which I skimmed through). –Quiddity (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I entirely disagree with that assessment. Everything on Wikipedia is a result of voting...  Consensus = Qualitative voting. I don't expect my use of any template to increase the value of my vote on any topic.  I do expect any comments I attach to my vote to value into the weight of my vote however.  Before you argue with me that there is no voting, see WT:Protected Page Editor and WP:Pending changes/Request for Comment 2013.  Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Spaces in templates such as cite journal
Is there a rule, a guideline, or even a consensus, about spaces within references created with templates such as cite journal - and, by extension, within uses of other templates? Should there be no spaces, or a space before each "|", or after each "|", or both? I think those four options cover all possibilities!

I ask because I added a reference using the "Cite" button and filling in the fields, which creates a ref with no space before or after each dividing "|":

Another editor has added spaces after each "|", producing:

Looking at Template:Cite web I see it has examples where there is a space before each "|":

I agree that having spaces between the parameters is useful, as it makes a lengthy reference easier to read and edit, and sometimes prevents awkward line-breaks. But I ask whether there's any sort of standard on this. If there "ought" to be spaces, then whoever is responsible for the "cite" button could be asked to change its output by adding spaces as required. Pam D  13:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It's pretty much the same as for any other template. It only matters when positional (unnamed) parameters are in use, but that's not the case here. Where parameters are named - such as all of the parameters recognised by and  - it doesn't matter whether there are spaces or not around the pipe | and equals = signs.
 * My own personal habit is to put one space before each pipe, but omit the others, as in
 * Smith John Observations
 * In this way each parameter name is brought close to its value, and when wrapping occurs at the right-hand end, it's likely to occur between the name/value pairs. Of course, where a value has a space inside it - as in The New York Times - the wrapping is likely to occur between two of those words, but there's nothing we can sensibly do about that.
 * I don't really like to have a space after a pipe when there isn't also one before the pipe. But again, that's personal, it makes no technical difference. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:06, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your thoughts. I've noticed today another editor adding spaces either side of the "=" in a citation. This sort of editing clutters up watchlists (though here they did also manage to shorten the URL), and seems unnecessary. It seems strange to leave decisions on spaces entirely to the whim of individual editors, but perhaps that's just the Wikipedia way. Pam  D  12:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

New DTTR template
After I royally peeved another editor by leaving a warning template on their talk page, I decided to create a user talk template for those editors who don't like getting templated. User:Ibadibam/sandbox/Template:Don't_template_me is my first template, and I'd appreciate some pointers to make sure I'm following proper standards with respect to style and documentation, before I create it for real in the template namespace. Ibadibam (talk) 22:20, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This template is fine, but I would axe Uw-dttr. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:32, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Complaining about people using templates by using a template? You're funny Guys, but I don't know if the template really achieves what you intend. --Patrick87 (talk) 07:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a distinct difference between using a template and templating a user talk page, and I'm pretty sure you can see the distinction. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 08:20, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no. For me there is no real difference. If I don't want people to overly use templates on my talk page, using a template to say so feels just wrong. However I'm not telling anybody how to design his/her talkpage, so go on if you want. --Patrick87 (talk) 11:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This template is meant to convey information about the editor, much like the userboxes that editors like have on their userpages, except that I figured that a WP:DTTR-themed userbox wouldn't get noticed when it mattered. Moreover, it's meant to specifically address user warning templates, not templates in general.  Do you have any ideas as to how the template text and documentation could be revised to make this clearer? Ibadibam (talk) 19:23, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you really don't like others to post warning templates on your talk page, then do as stated in your own template: Take the time and write a short statement about it on your talk page. That's the only design idea I can offer you.
 * How do you think someone feels when he wants to put a warning template on your talk page and gets welcomed by something similar to a warning template? Furthermore I don't even think the type of people putting warning templates on talk pages would notice the template or take the time to read it anyway, otherwise they would write a personal comment in the first place instead of putting some impersonal warning template.
 * But as stated above: This is my personal view and the way I would solved it personally. If you think differently feel free to use your template. --Patrick87 (talk) 19:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I see your point. There is an element of hypocrisy in asking others to take the time to be original and not doing so yourself. The main thing that this template provides is eye-catching layout, which would be a pain to do manually. The other thing is that it would be feasible to have tools like Twinkle check for this template and notify someone giving a warning that they're risking ill will from the recipient. But yes, I personally would be put off to see this on someone's talk page, since I'm more of the "template everyone" persuasion. I just don't want to repeat the misunderstandings I've had with other editors, and so I'm developing this template for their use. Ibadibam (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, even worse idea IMHO. So you ask people who decline templating to put a template on their talk page? That could lead to even more misunderstandings, sorry. Face-smile.svg --Patrick87 (talk) 20:41, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I mean, I'm not "asking" for anything. I just want to make the option available, and if someone fails to see the irony in it, then they can go ahead and use it, I guess. Ibadibam (talk) 21:06, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Adding links to navboxes within navboxes.
User:Spshu is insisting on adding interlinks between the following navboxes: Template:Marvel Comics TV, Template:Marvel animation and Template:Marvel Comics films. I have explained that we do not link to other navboxes within navboxes, but I am being told I am "making stuff up" because we do not explicitly forbid this in the guidelines. Please join the discussion at User talk:Spshu/Archive 1. --Rob Sinden (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

On the same subject
I notice that a lot of film awards have navigational succession templates (for want of a better word) that link to other templates. I've nominated Template:GuldbaggeAwardBestFilm footer if you see what I mean. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:23, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Template horizontal timelines
I spotted a problem some while back on the page Great_Oxygenation_Event and so I've tried to figure out was was going wrong by running my eye over the various templates involved. I mentioned it on the talk page there and I think that displays the basic problem. I *think* the solution is probably to fix the template template:geological periods using the techniques from the template template:geological eras. But at that point I started seeing more nested curly brackets than my tiny mind could comprehend, so I thought I'd ask if someone here might be able to help. Incidentally the 'rough' example in the documentation for horizontal timelines also appears to have the problem with stuff not lining up. I should note that I don't know the correct start/end dates for the various geological eras and periods - but they are included already I think, and are certainly in the relevant linked articles if some are missing, but its clear that both the lines are offset or to a different scale or something. Sorry if that was a bit waffling, hope you can help. EdwardLane (talk) 07:45, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm baffled. (indeed, a nested curly bracket headache). For anyone else looking, the rough/crude documentation example that EdwardLane mentioned is at Template:Horizontal timeline.
 * Template genius requested! –Quiddity (talk) 23:16, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Mislinking to wiktionary
Template_talk:Infobox_Chinese. Can anyone help please In ictu oculi (talk) 09:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Magnify link not magnifying
See Cholesterol : the magnify link does not link to File:StatinPathway WP430.png, as it should. Comes from bad use of  parameter of  in, but I don’t know how to correct it (and I don’t know how this template can work without failure). — Ltrl G☎, 11:28, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * fixed. still puzzled how this thing actually works when the image passed is not a raw image name, but adding an option to override the magnify link appears to have fixed it. Frietjes (talk) 16:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Legal case templates?
Hello Template experts! I wanted to ask a huge favour. Can you make a template for English legal cases, like this for United States case law:


 * Adams v. Tanner,

The citation system in the United Kingdom has a number of reports, many of which are online at www.bailii.org. There are the codes [2008] UKSC 41 for the UK Supreme Court, [1999] UKHL 1, for the House of Lords before, EWCA Civ for the Court of Appeal Civil Division, EWHC for the High Court, and so on. Then there are pre-online case citations from various reporting companies, with an official one like this: [1990] 2 AC 663 (AC abbreviating "Appeal Cases").

What would be ideal is if the template allowed (1) a click on the case number to direct to Bailii's online reports, and (2) a click on the letter code to direct to the page explaining what the reports are. Bailii's case url's are a standardised format, like this:


 * http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/1427.html

And the case citation page is here at the moment:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_citation#United_Kingdom

Please drop a line on my talk page if this all sounds do-able. It'd be a fantastic service. Many thanks,  Wik idea  16:00, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * you may be able to find a related template in Category:Court box templates. Frietjes (talk) 16:12, 14 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Category:Law citation templates would be more relevant, which is where you will find Cite BAILII. --  Gadget850talk 16:50, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

stub template/category mismatch
The Template:"Darts-competition-stub" shows a different message than the Category:"Darts tournament stubs", which the Stub populates. I don't know how to fix it, so am letting you fine folks at WP Templates know. Thank you. Rpyle731talk 05:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅, see . -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:52, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Template error
AR4 is generating an error, which can be seen at the template page itself.

Unknown parameter |trunc= ignored

My guess is that this arose when converted to Lua. First, how can I tell whether a template has been converted to Lua?

Does anyone know what the parameter was intended to do?

I'm uncomfortable simply removing it without knowing what it was meant to do.

I'd check with the author, but he hasn't edited in two months.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  21:20, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone went ahead and removed it, but I'm still curious if anyone has an idea what it was intended to do.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  21:55, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * uses, which has been partially converted to Lua: you can tell that it uses Lua because when you view the template source, it contains code like . The text between the   and the first pipe shows which module is being used: in this case Module:citation/CS1.
 * Anyway,, like most of the other citation templates (e.g. ) were front ends for , but there are inconsistencies between the parameter names, mainly to handle aliases. For example, in , you could give the first author's surname using any of last surname last1 surname1 author1 author authors but whichever one you used, that would be passed to via the latter's Surname1 parameter.
 * As far as I know, trunc was never valid; however, does have a Trunc parameter, which was set from the value passed into  through the latter's display-authors parameter. In this case, I think the intention was to set the number of authors displayed to 3, with the fourth and subsequent being collectively shown as "et al."; however, there were other things wrong with the syntax as used in  so it wouldn't have worked even if the trunc had been amended to display-authors -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. Didn't catch all of it, but enough to cover what I need.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  02:38, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Two questions related to templates I am trying to modify
My goal is to modify CBB roster/Header and CBB roster/Player so that if the parameter sex= is set to w, not only will it change the title as it does now, but also that it will suppress the weight column.

I created CBB roster/Header/sandbox, which seems to work correctly.

However, I have two issues with CBB roster/Player/sandbox.

The first is that it doesn't work. When sex=w, it is fine, but for the default, I get an extra line feed, see User:Sphilbrick/sandbox for an example.

My edit was to replace
 * style="text-align:right; white-space:nowrap; font-size:90%; | {{#if:{{{lbs|}}}
 * {{{lbs}}} lb ({{#expr:{{{lbs}}} * 0.45359237 round 0}} kg)

with {{#switch:{{lc:{{{sex}}}}}|f|female|w|women|womens|women's=|#default=| style="text-align:right; white-space:nowrap; font-size:90%; | {{#if:{{{lbs|}}}
 * {{{lbs}}} lb ({{#expr:{{{lbs}}} * 0.45359237 round 0}} kg)
 * — }}

The intent of which is to fill in the weight as usual for the men, and do nothing if women.

I tried moving the pipe (the one after #default =) to the beginning, which seemed to fix the men option, but not the women. So, for example, if I move the pipe to the beginning, as here:
 * {{#switch:{{lc:{{{sex}}}}}|f|female|w|women|womens|women's=|#default= style="text-align:right; white-space:nowrap; font-size:90%; | {{#if:{{{lbs|}}}
 * {{{lbs}}} lb ({{#expr:{{{lbs}}} * 0.45359237 round 0}} kg)
 * — }}

It works for the men option but not for the women

So my first question is what am I doing wrong, and how do I do it right to cover both cases?

My second question is that I needed to introduce a sex= parameter into the Player template. If the first question is resolved, it means I'll have to rewrite all the uses of the template, as the current implementation has a sex= parameter in the header, but not in Player. I know you can pass parameters from one template to another when they are nested, but that doesn't seem to apply. Is there a way to take advantage of the fact that no one uses a Player template without a header template, and get the parameter from that template?-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Does it now work as intended? Ruslik_ Zero 17:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * unfortunately, unless one template calls the other, there is no way to get the parameters from one to the other. if there is a common pattern for the article names, you can sometimes use that.  for example, if all the articles have 'women' or 'lady' in the title (e.g., women's basketball).  as far as the whitespace issue goes, the issue is with an additional newline when the weight column is removed.  a way around this is either (a) use html {{tag|td}} markup or (b) use || table markup and remove the newline.  I made a change to the sandbox which should fix the problem. Frietjes (talk) 17:54, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it works, now to go look and see what you did.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  17:57, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

RfC: Advertising userboxes on categories which the userbox adds the user to.
This message is to inform the members of this WikiProject that there is an on-going RfC on WP:VPP that I think you all may be interested in. Technical 13 (talk) 19:32, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Film director navboxes
Do we think that a film director's navbox would need splitting down into decades - an arbitrary split anyway? I've been tidying up some navboxes and removing decade splits (unless the navboxes are exceptionally large) but another editor isn't happy with this. I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film --Rob Sinden (talk) 18:14, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Help to check and finish the creation of a new template
I wrote my request also on the Help-Desk, but I really don't have time to finalize what I started few months ago if anybody could help, it would be great. Thanks in advance.Bastaco (talk) 14:00, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

This was my last message from end of June: "I am still trying to create a new template for WikiProject Biology, the page is Template:Subtitle/Taxon. One user help me a lot but still have some problems when trying to edit the subtitles, it does not appear like in the exemple. It's small details for sure just a question of brace or something like that!! If an expert could have a look on it to finish this nice template, please. Thanks in advance for your contribution." Bastaco (talk) 09:24, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

This is for example the result I would like to have in the english wiki version: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablabys_taenianotus

And this what I get at the moment when I try the subtitle template in english version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablabys_taenianotus

Thanks for your help, Bastaco (talk) 18:07, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I noticed that the French version of the template transcludes the parent template fr:Modèle:Sous-titre. I am guessing that some of the code in Template:Subtitle/Taxon is there in place of the parent template Template:Subtitle which does not exist on the English Wikipedia. Maybe there is an error in that added code?--ukexpat (talk) 18:57, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

@ Ukexpat: The original french version is fr:Modèle:Sous-titre/Taxon, if it may contribute to help me. Bastaco (talk) 08:30, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * There are more specialized places to ask for help. If you don't get satisfaction here, after a couple of days, I suggest posting at WT:WikiProject Templates. Just keep in mind that (a) you should not post a question in two different places at the same time; rather, try one place and give editors a couple of days before you go elsewhere; (b) when you go to the second place, do mention that you tried at the first place, but didn't get what you wanted. By doing these two things, you won't irritate editors who might be able to help you. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You need some stuff added to Mediawiki:common.css to make the template work as you intend :

You will need to make a request at MediaWiki talk:Common.css, using the edit protected template. Mdann52 (talk) 13:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * you need more than stuff added to Mediawiki:common.css, but some javascript as well. the French version grabs the contents of this span and moves it into the title, which requires javascript. the additional stuff that you are asking for would just make it look less horrible if someone has javascript disabled.  but, I would encourage you to post your request at MediaWiki talk:Common.css. Frietjes (talk) 16:04, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

draft template param displaying pipe 2 ways
I'm drafting a template with a parameter that takes a manually-entered string as a value. If the string includes "|", the rendering depends on whether it is in a URL or not. If it is, the rendering is as "%7C" ; but if is not in a URL, the rendering is as "|". In a test, I found that a URL (a different one) does not necessarily resolve percent-encoding to the unencoded form so the intended address can be reached (tested by percent-encoding either the dot before "com" or a letter); the Internet service provider was unable to determine what destination I wanted and sent me some advertising instead. How can I make the parameter display the literal result of the "|" template even if embedded in a URL, just as happens when there's a string without a URL? Although a pipe is not common in a URL, I think it is permitted. (I asked about the problem at Help talk:Template and at Wikipedia:Help desk but there's no answer on point.) Nick Levinson (talk) 18:02, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The literal pipe character is not valid in a URL (see 3986), although it may be represented as . There are no templates - not even  - where the literal pipe character is anything other than a separator between parameters. Therefore, the pipe character cannot form part of a URL when that URL is a parameter's value. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay; I guess I'll just say something about inappropriate characters in the doc. It appears that RFC 3986 limits URIs (thus URLs) to certain characters and the literal pipe isn't one of them. However, there probably are a bunch of URLs using unencoded pipes and there is or was a philosophy (at least regarding emails) that senders should be strictly compliant but that receivers should be generous, and that has led to many noncompliant transmissions being accepted often enough to cause recipients to be blamed when they refuse something for noncompliance. But this case sounds too complicated for programming between the template and MediaWiki levels, so the doc will have to do. Nick Levinson (talk) 21:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Transliteration warning boxes
See Templates for discussion/Log/2013 September 23 where 3 of these templates are up for deletion -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 05:45, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Director photo in Template:Alfred Hitchcock‎
As this already director navbox is already pretty large, couldn't we make it a little less cumbersome by removing the director photo? Thoughts here please :) --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:03, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Linking a general phrase in navboxes.
Would anyone like to comment on my edit request here, regarding the linking of "county seat" in all US county navigation boxes? --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:01, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Linking Wiki articles to library classification
Many Wikipedia articles relate to a single topic which a reader might want to pursue in more depth. Citations and bibliographies are essential within Wikipedia, but only of use to a reader if they have access to the specified books. It would be helpful to direct readers from the online page to the appropriate section of a public library where they would find books on the topic. For instance knot would benefit from a hat note at the start of the article along the lines of:

I have developed a simple template that will do this and it is currently housed at User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox. There is a page of test cases at User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox3. Is this worth pursuing? This is my first template, so I have come here for advice. I did consider publishing this at WP:RFC, but on reflection here seemed a better next step. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * have you looked at template:library resources box? not exactly the same thing, but could possibly be extended to add more than viaf and lccn. Frietjes (talk) 20:30, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The box Frietjes refers to seems to be a good place to incorporate it, also seeing how the link to the library is probably better suited for the further reading or external link sections than as hatnote. By the way, you can call a template in a non-template namespace as well:

{ {User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox|Dewey=623.88}} CRwikiCA  <i style="color:navy">talk</i> 20:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I did, but I subst'ed the original to ensure it didn't get lost. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:10, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I hadn't, that is why I came here for advice. :-) Having now had a quick look at it I don't think they are attempting to do the same thing; the box is linking to online books whilst I'm suggesting an aid to further research in a "dead tree" library.  I'm also not too sure about the use of a box, it might clash with existing infoboxes. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * it goes in the external link section, so I don't see it conflicting with the infobox. the second link in the 'library resources box' is link to your local library, not to an online book. fundamentally, this sort of information is an external link, whether it is an actual hyperlink, or a pointer to where to look in your local library. Frietjes (talk) 21:08, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That is a very good point for both a single entry or the box. I shall think about it overnight (I'm on UK time). Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:14, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * and, by the way, there are also inline versions like Library resources about. Frietjes (talk) 21:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not all libraries which use Dewey use it in the same way. For example, Oxfordshire County Libraries place most railway books in either of two main classifications - 385 Railroad transportation or 625 Engineering of railroads and roads. The distinction isn't always clear, and the next public library to the south-east, that at Reading, Berkshire, avoids the issue by putting them all in 625. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've had a play with Library resources about which I assume is similar to template:library resources box. The former relies on libraries being available online, and for the UK it is only a selection of major university libraries and a few libraries of international standing.  It doesn't list my local branch library "down the road".  Perhaps I should add here something I wrote to another editor: "I have a vision of walking into my local public library sitting down at a computer and looking up Wikipedia for a subject, say model steam locomotives, and after reading online being able to walk straight to the shelves at 625.19 and browse the stock".  Redrose, you are quite correct about libraries interpretations.  DDC has always been a guide, not a straitjacket.  However since 385 lies within "Commerce, communications, transportation" whereas 625 is "Engineering and allied operations", I would suggest the division is clear, even if books stray between the two.  Perhaps education is the answer! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:52, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * there is also the worldcat series of templates, which probably also rely on the libraries indices being online. Frietjes (talk) 23:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * See Forward to Libraries for the project that is behind the {Library resources ..} templates (Check out the box at [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Franklin&oldid=571549859#External_links Benjamin_Franklin#External_links] for example)
 * See The Wikipedia Library for a different wikiproject, that has a large number of diverse and intriguing activities under its umbrella. –Quiddity (talk) 02:43, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not getting back earlier; real life got in the way! Quiddity, thanks for the heads up on those, the Library project had already recruited me.  One of the reasons I signed up was the involvement of OCLC.  I had earlier, in a reply to User:Ocaasi on my talk page, wondered about OCLC's attitude to copyright.  The thing that concerns me about the templates that lead to a local library is that they don't, for most of the world.  US public libraries seem to be well represented as are the major national libraries and some universities around the world.  This may be of help to researchers such as Wiki editors, but is of limited help to ordinary readers.  See the vision in my post of 22:52, 11 September 2013 (UTC).  I'm always concerned about WP:RF; towards the end it states "a good theoretical audience are high school and college students".  Such an audience would not have access to the national libraries and (for the high school students) university libraries, whereas pointing them to the correct section of the village or town library may assist them.
 * I believe the template I've developed does something different to the other templates, and I hope it might be of use. The question then is (a) is it worth proceeding with and (b) what is the best course of action?  Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:30, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that "Forward to Libraries" (FtL) is not connected to "The Wikipedia Library" (TWL) - they're totally distinct endeavours.
 * FTL was initially discussed at this WP:VPR RfC thread, wherein I suggested that all the libraries listed in Book sources should be added into the FtL tool (the author gave an insightful reply there). You might be interested in helping the author of the FtL tool track down the information he needs to add additional regional libraries.
 * Regarding adding specific Dewey numbers, I wonder if adding them at WikiData might be better? Then the info could be pulled from there, into (an infobox, or the {Library resources ..} templates, plus into other languages/projects (do any/many other languages use the Dewey system?)). I'd suggest starting a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Libraries to collate and confirm all the background info, and then bring a concise proposal to wikidata:Wikidata:Project chat. (Disclaimer: I'm not a wikidata regular, so am not sure if they'd even be receptive to the idea). HTH. –Quiddity (talk) 20:59, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Illegal, I think. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not up to date, but I recall that the Dewey system is under copyright and is freely licensed to libraries but not to most other potential users and this proposal essentially would classify Wikipedia articles into the Dewey system. That may require paying fees. The U.S. Library of Congress numbering system may be more freely usable and is also more flexible for modern subjects but fewer public libraries use it and converting from one into the other is not easy. It may be more feasible to use the Library of Congress Subject Headings (LCSH) system, as I think most public libraries use that even for books classified under Dewey and book publishers often list a few subject headings on the copyright pages. If this template design goes forward (it appears to have utility although I haven't compared the alternative/s mentioned), being able to list more than one number or subject heading would be useful. Nick Levinson (talk) 17:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The dewey.info pages I linked above are licensed CC-BY-NC-ND 3.0 -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Nick, OCLC are already involved in the library project, though to what extent I don't know. Does copyright subsist in the schedules or in the generated number?  To take a concrete example; if I scanned my copy of Abridged and put it on the web, then that would clearly be in breach of copyright.  If I merely told you to look for "The Diary of Ralph Josselyn" at 942.06 is that a copyright infringement?  Turning now to alternative schema; I coded the template to accept Dewey as the default, but up to three schema are accepted:  ->

{ {User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox|UDC=123.4.567|LCC=987.654|Dewey=123.456}} LCSH is ideal for computerised lookup, but of no use for browsing. If a reader has to turn to automated indices to locate books in the library, then the whole point of templates is negated and may as well be abandoned. There may be a geographic distinction here, but I cannot recall ever seeing LCSH displayed in a public library except where it coincides with the headwords of the Dewey divisions. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That license (the one cited by Redrose64) is limited to noncommercial use and I think Wikipedia requires that commercial use be permitted for anything uploaded, including edits. The dewey.info home page and its pages linked above do not make clear to me that the license is for more than the pages citing it. Applying the Dewey classification to other works may be beyond that license. My understanding of copyright law in general is that a numbering method is copyrightable (a similar problem arose, I think, between Lexis and West Publishing a few decades ago when Lexis used West's widely-known volume-and-page numbering system to identify court opinions in Lexis' proprietary database and West won on infringement), so if I assign Dewey numbers to various Web pages (such as Wikipedia articles) so you can find them by Dewey number then legal permission is probably needed (and has been granted to some users). (Merely discussing several numbers for their (de)merits may not be infringing and the copyright holder telling us about them is not infringing.) The OCLC page on licensing, although speaking of business uses and trademarks, suggests permission may be needed but perhaps they won't charge the Wikimedia Foundation as long as WMF asks first. If OCLC is being helpful in designing a Wikipedia template, that may not be a grant of permission, which has to be explicit.
 * I suppose subject terms could be linked in a way that supports direct entry into a library catalogue for searching, but that may be complicated for Wikipedia to implement. It may depend on a library, WorldCat, or some such offering an interface allowing automated entry of subjects.
 * Even if one scheme is used in the template, allowing several entries may be helpful, as one Wikipedia article may substantially overlap several subjects or numbers.
 * I don't know which subject scheme is used in libraries that use a given numbering; I assumed it's the same as the numbering but I guess it could differ or even that libraries could customize a few subject entries.
 * Nick Levinson (talk) 21:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've just added a tag line to as an example. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2013 (UTC)  See old version (original reverted by administrator Redrose64).Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:56, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Soap Opera character navboxes.
EastEnders characters‎, Hollyoaks characters‎ and Coronation Street characters‎ have recently included characters that link to sections of articles that are also linked in the template. For example, Linda Carter is a redirect to List of EastEnders characters (2013). Per WP:NAV, we should "avoid repeating links to the same article within a template", and only link to existing articles. I have removed these links to redirects, but they do keep being reverted. What does anyone else think? --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:31, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I was the editor that reverted them (though only the EastEnders navbox). WP:NAV is guidance only - it is not a Wikipedia policy or guideline. Excluding the characters which do not yet have their own article just leaves the navigation box incomplete, as it is (in effect) a collection.  Other editors will inevitably try and re-add the links as they will be seen as obviously missing.  "Avoiding" does not mean "excluding in all cases"; pragmatically, this is a case where the links are justified. Stephenb (Talk) 08:37, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * We should bear in mind that navigation templates are not supposed to replace articles - if anyone is really interested in current characters, they really should be looking at the List of EastEnders characters, not the template. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:42, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

A request for you
Hello Templaters! (Templars? Anyway) Is there anyone willing to give me a little help with a bug report template? You can skip most of the discussion and just read the messages written in November. Thanks a lot. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

College basketball navigation templates
Please join the discussion at the College Basketball Wikiproject for forming a consensus on the creation of a basic navigation template for college basketball teams. CrazyPaco (talk) 09:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Cleaning up the "Template:" namespace
Would it be desirable to rename all templates using a hierarchical naming scheme? For example, Template:Stochastic processes be renamed to "Template:Navbox-Stochastic processes", etc.

My reasoning would be that this would make templates more self-explanatory and that it would resolve any potential name clashes.

Is a non-hierarchical organization scheme superior?

67.252.103.23 (talk) 19:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * categories seem to do a pretty good job with hierarchical classification, although we do use the prefix notation for infobox templates. Frietjes (talk) 19:52, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the suffix notation for stub message boxes. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:04, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I would have to be very strongly opposed if such a proposal came up. The reason for this is that there are many templates that are well established as they are currently named.  It would be impractical to try and rename some of them and confusing to editors.  This would leave the proposal falling short in that it would fail as an all or nothing proposal, which would be required in order to be effective. Technical 13 (talk) 02:14, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously you would always leave redirects for any "grandfathered" navbox templates so that they continue to work. We could also have a bot that goes around periodically to change all the old instantiations to the new name. Even if we completely grandfathered in all the old names, and didn't change them it still might be a good idea as a future naming convention. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 02:27, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be a cosmetic bot to update template names without changing any content, and last I knew there was a strong consensus against such bots. Also, there are many of those template with tens, hundreds, or even thousands of thousands (millions) of transclusions.  Just seems impractical to me. Technical 13 (talk) 02:35, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The practicality of a bot would certainly be a concern, but it's not the only approach - you could have AWB and other bots update as they go, for example, or just grandfather in all of the old template calls. Even without changing pre-existing pages, what do you think about standardizing the names and leaving redirects? What do you think about having a template naming convention for future navboxes? In other words, should we actually make some sort of policy on consistently naming navboxes? VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 03:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That wouldn't address the topic of this section, which is cleaning up / renaming the existing templates. Since that is impractical (and would just cause more confusion and disruption than the status quo), I'd be shocked to see such a proposal passed if it ever was proposed. Technical 13 (talk) 03:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I totally agree that the current proposal is certainly very far along the spectrum of what could be done. I obviously think there is some merit to having distinct types of templates have standard names, and navboxes certainly fall under that heading in my mind. I was trying to get you pinned down on the philosophical aspect, since my experience is that you tend to bring in well-thought perspective to things like this. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 04:22, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd just like to point out that one of Rich Farmbrough's favourites was to move a template to a "more consistent" name, and then send a bot out to chase up uses of the old name and amend them. Be very careful lest you wind up at Arbcom too. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:00, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Firefly
As I understand it, we don't include actors in navboxes per WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Consensus summaries. Therefore navbox doesn't belong on the relevant actor per WP:BIDIRECTIONAL. However editors keep reverting my edits. Comments would be appreciated at User talk:Lexein Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers. --Rob Sinden (talk) 21:30, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It's called bold, revert, discuss, not bold, revert, revert. The place to discuss these things is the talk page. Only after you have reached an impasse there should you even begin to come to some place like this. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 22:58, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * If you don't want to get involved, then don't, but as this was about something that is directly relevant to the project, and something that there has been consensus against in the past, it seemed appropriate to seek wide views, as previous consensus was being ignored and the impasse seemed inevitable. I agree that maybe the template talk page may have been the correct forum, but as the editors involved had already started 11 different discussions about it elsewhere, starting another seemed pointless. I chose the editor's talk page to centralise the discussion as that was where the conversation first started, but the editor in question decided on another location.  In the meantime, it would be welcome to see opinion from members of the project who are interested.   --Rob Sinden (talk) 23:42, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is appropriate to get wide views. On the talk page discussion that you've already started. Right now, there is no previous consensus, just an edit war. Until you start talking with the people watching that template, you are not bringing anything to the table. Find out what their perspective is. See if you can find a compromise solution. Feel free to post neutral invitations to that discussion on appropriate wikiprojects. But until you've actually made an effort to resolve the conflict, all this is is a cold invitation to intervene - basically the exact opposite of forming consensus. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Discussion has been moved somewhere more appropriate, namely Template talk:Firefly. Would appreciate input from the project there. Please? --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * We're still at loggerheads - would appreciate input from the project. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Help requested with the redesign of Template:Canoeing and kayaking (Navbox)
Hi, at WP:Kayaking we are wanting to redesign the main navbox, your help would be appreciated, please see here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject KayakingJamesmcmahon0 (talk) 12:23, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Redlinks in film director navboxes
If anyone is interested, this discussion is related to a proposal to allow redlinks in "filmography" navboxes. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Template rendering okay in IE, but incorrectly in Firefox & Opera
The template Template:Horizontal timeline, as used in Template:Vietnam War graphical timeline, is not rendering correctly in Firefox & Opera.

See my more detailed comment at: Template talk:Vietnam War graphical timeline.

I think it's a problem with the conversion from the wiki-source to the HTML code.

I glanced at the wiki-source and don't see what could be causing the problem.

Anybody here have an idea?

Thanks. Infoman99 (talk) 23:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Inclusion of fictional characters in actor award navboxes.
Please see the discussion here. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:SockmasterProven
Could someone please take a look at Template:SockmasterProven? It's supposed to duplicate, but the optional parameters apparently aren't handed over correctly. See Template talk:SockmasterProven for a more detailed description of the problem. Huon (talk) 00:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I resolved this, right ? (I'm old and have a lot on my mental plate right now so can't remember if I finished fixing it or not).  Thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 13:35, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, you found out what exactly was the problem, but it hasn't been fixed. I just tried, and the parameters still aren't passed on correctly. Huon (talk) 17:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, in that case, I've just gone and slapped the template upside the head and told it to start working and it now does. Also, the proof is in.

Human height
Just seeking a wider range of input from informed persons at Template_talk:Height.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Template updating issue
Would somebody be able to look at the request that I made here and possibly fix it? We are attempting to merge three templates and add the parameters of a fourth, but my attempt to make the images a bit more user-friendly to use is gumming up the interface. Thanks a lot! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 05:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Help requested with fixing Template:Fb ss3 player
Hi, there seems to be a problem with the table at Template:Fb ss3 player, as some of the columns don't appear and the background shading is wrong, as can be seem here: 2013–14 Western Sydney Wanderers FC season. I have no idea what the problem is or how to fix it, so any help would be much appreciated.--2nyte (talk) 13:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * First, what were your intentions when writing Template:Fb ss3 header, Template:Fb ss3 player and Template:Fb ss3 footer? There is documentation for only the first of these, and it is completely lacking in usage information. recognises five positional parameters;  recognises four named parameters and twenty positional; and  recognises four (all named). It would help us if we knew what the various parameters were for. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:05, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, that is definitely out of my league. I was trying to make a table but I have no idea how to or what I did. I just copied, pasted and edited various other tables. I've never made tables like that before, so I don't know what I actually did or how to fix it. Also I don't know how to make or what info should be added to a documentation, but I'm willing to learn.--2nyte (talk) 15:02, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, where did you copy them from? -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure but I think it was Template:Extended football squad player.--2nyte (talk) 15:25, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm. The documentation for that also lacks usage information: it bangs on about microformats (which are barely relevant), and completely irrelevant stuff (like birth dates and URLs) which has no provision for. The documentation makes no mention of those parameters which are valid: there are four named parameters, and eight positional. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I didn't understand any of your comment. As I said, I really don't know how to make these type of tables. But do you know how to fix it?--2nyte (talk) 16:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Fix it to do what? I've compared Template:Extended football squad player with Template:Fb ss3 player, and there are clear similarities; but in the latter, besides exchanging the second and third columns, you have added three columns and twelve parameters with no readily apparent purpose. Without knowing where you're coming from and what you're trying to do, there's little that I can do. Is there a discussion somewhere, for example at WT:FOOTY, which sets out a need for your three templates, and a list of requirements that they should meet? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * If you look at 2013–14 Western Sydney Wanderers FC season, in the table I've tried to incorporate apps, goals and yellow card, second yellow card and red card to each competition, with the possibility of having 5 competitions.--2nyte (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I left a note at WT:FOOTY. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:20, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * fixed Frietjes (talk) 17:39, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thankyou so much Frietjes, I really appreciate it, and thankyou Redrose64 as well :D --2nyte (talk) 00:39, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested moves of Suicide templates
Input is appreciated here: Template talk:Suicide. Cheers, Manifestation 15:16, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Animal navboxes
When Boulonnais horse was featured on the front page the other day, I spotted this carbuncle of a navbox on it. My attempts to clean up the the redlinks per WP:NOTRED, the non WP:BIDIRECTIONAL stuff and the extraneous explanatory text on this and similar navboxes are being thwarted by other editors. Anyone want to weigh in? --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:20, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * How, exactly, are you being thwarted? You've not linked to any diffs, so it's impossible to say whether your approach or theirs is best. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 15:20, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * See Template talk:Horse breeds of France. And once we bring it in line with the relevant guidelines, it would look something like this although there is still a little more tidyup needed.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * There's also this diff on a similarly styled navbox. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:35, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems the discussion is now at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Agriculture. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:47, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Help with the invitation template at WikiProject Ships
Running into a real mess attempting to get the invitation template(s) to work at WikiProject Ships, and need assistance. [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Welcome_ships&action=history Welcome ships: Revision history] and [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Invite_ships Template:Invite_ships]. Could a knowledgeable person help straighten this out, and post the results on the project talk page? Djembayz (talk) 18:44, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * What is this "real mess"? What are you attempting to do, and how is it failing? Template:Welcome ships hasn't been edited since May 2012, so is it an old problem? Which is "the project talk page"? -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:48, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Old peer review
See Template talk:Old peer review where we are having a discussion on what format the "date" parameter should use. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 04:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Template violates WP:MOS
In the article titled Noah there were Bible verses written as 12-15 (with a hyphen) where WP:MOS requires 12–15 (with an en-dash). I changed them to en-dashes and cited WP:MOS. The change was reverted by a user who claimed that an en-dash won't work because, he claimed, these are URLs – links to external web sites.

Is it possible to re-write template:bibleverse-nb to comply with WP:MOS while also linking to external web sites? Preferably with an edit that causes all articles currently using the template to show an en-dash without the need to edit them one by one? Michael Hardy (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I do not see exactly what you mean, but the bible verse links I see in that article have a working link and en-dash, although they might use Bibleverse instead. If you state where the other template is used, it might clear things up a bit. CRwikiCA  <i style="color:navy">talk</i> 18:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I added a replace template in Bibleverse-nb's sandbox which seems to do the job (, testcase). However, it more than doubles the template's load time. Does anyone know of a better solution? (The difference is a few thousandths of a second... should I be worrying about load time at all?) <b style="font-variant:small-caps;"> Little Mountain  5 </b> 06:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't be worrying about a few thousandths of a second. Jimp 09:33, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

New template Template:Is now, based on Template:Age switch
I created this template for use on holidays like April Fools Day, but it's a bit late for this year for that. It has many other uses as well.

Basically, you feed it a #time: -compatible format string and a list of up to 31 values you want to check for, and it returns "1" if any of the the checks matched as of the last time the page was purged.

Example: becomes

Enjoy. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  17:28, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Template categorization
There seems to be a few faultlines in the naming/structure of the template categories used in Wikipedia, of which "...navigational boxes" vs. "...[navigational/navbox] templates" seems the most trenchant. Is this something that's being (or due to be) addressed, or maybe stymied by lack of consensus, or...? (I think I'd support "...templates" as, unlike "...navigational boxes", it includes that keyword "templates".)

Template category structure: Putting the smaller templates (i.e. Commons etc), inline templates and so on to one side, there seem to be three kinds of larger template that regularly appear in articles: navboxes, infoboxes and sidebars. Of these, navboxes seem the most common, so I suspect that treating these as if they are the default kind of (larger) template appearing in articles could lead to a more consistent and streamlined structure: A default form of template category description for "Category:[Topic] templates" pages could include an explanation/reminder that the category carries navigational/navbox templates but also the links to "Category:[Topic] infobox templates" and "Category:[Topic] sidebar templates" (if/when they exist). (Anything like "Category:[Topic] inline templates", "Category:[Topic] formatting and function templates", etc, could also appear under the blank-space character.)
 * "Category:[Topic] templates" (which would also = "Category:[Topic] navigational/navbox templates" and/or "Category:[Topic] navigational boxes")
 * Categoriszed under " " (blank space character):
 * "Category:[Topic] infobox templates"
 * "Category:[Topic] sidebar templates"

Sardanaphalus (talk) 17:01, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Excessive use of the project banner?
Is it just me, or are there too many templates in Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:WikiProject_Templates?

(Keep in mind what happened to this project's last banner.) &mdash;SamB (talk) 00:21, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It should mostly appear on non-templates, I would think. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 04:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * It should also appear on template link templates -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 23:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

template link templates up for deletion
see Templates for discussion/Log/2014 April 20 -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 23:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Custom CSS classes for Fix-based templates
I want to suggest implementing individual CSS classes (with no corresponding CSS rules by default) for fix-based templates. The rationale is simple: this would allow to use custom CSS or JS to distinguish these templates visually in articles. Currently it is also possible, but requires quite fragile quirks in custom JS. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 08:36, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Template for categorizing redirects
Could someone who understands templates take a look at my query on Template talk:WikiProject Carnivorous plants ? DexDor (talk) 21:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Please help making image templates machine-readable
Hi all,

you are getting this message because Media Viewer has been released, or will soon be released, to your wiki. MediaViewer relies on machine-readable templates to display image information such as description, author or license; other tools will probably follow soon. We need your help in ensuring that local license templates and the local equivalent of commons:Template:Information are machine-readable. The process of marking up templates is described at Multimedia/Media Viewer/Template compatibility. If MediaViewer was not released on this wiki yet, you can enable it for testing under Preferences > Beta features. We are happy to answer any question, but do not have the means to follow each page where this message is sent, so please reply at mw:Talk:Multimedia/Media Viewer or my talk page. Thanks!

(If you are a tool author and interested in using machine-readable template data, check out mw:Extension:CommonsMetadata.)

--Tgr (WMF) (talk) 04:09, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

First non-navigational template
Hi,

I set up my first non-navigational template at Template:Nanjing districts and I'm having an issue with right alignment, depending upon the content. So for Xuanwu District, Nanjing and Jianye District I put a

before the template (less than elegant) so that it would right align properly and not come to the left of the Infobox.

Do you know what I did wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 03:46, 15 May 2014 (UTC)


 * For Gulou District, Nanjing, I embedded the template in the Infobox for settlements. Another less than elegant solution because it makes the infobox so wide.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 04:00, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * fixed. Frietjes (talk) 14:49, 15 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I saw your changes. Thanks so much, looks great!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 15:17, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Template test cases notice
has been proposed to be renamed -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:53, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Where is the discussion? -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * talk page. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">cont 18:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Playboy Playmates templates
I ran across several templates, such as the template on List of Playboy Playmates of 2014, that has an upper names section and a lower dates section. The names section in this template are of the 12 playmates that are on the article and redirects back to that section. The future months, currently listed as Miss August through December also link back to this article. I can not imagine what purpose this would serve. None of the names currently have a separate article and this is the same for List of Playboy Playmates of 2013, List of Playboy Playmates of 2012, 2011, and so forth. If there was a link to point to it seems to me that the first sentence, where the name is bold, would be the appropriate place to place a link to that person. Would someone check this out please? Otr500 (talk) 07:41, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Before anyone wades into this, just an fyi that there is already discussion at Talk:List_of_Playboy_Playmates_of_2014 and its all a tail following a contentious AFD at Articles for deletion/List of Playboy Playmates of 2014.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken 13:20, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I am glad you weighed in and I sincerely hope others do decide to "wade in". These editors can make up their own minds if my concerns are valid or not, regardless if someone tries to poison the pot. By stating that there is a current discussion going on per above is totally false and any reader can see that. After I could not get any discussion about my concerns I posted here. "After that" I was informed "You keep bringing up Playboy template concerns (here, at AfD, etc.) apparently everywhere but in the right venue, which is the talk page for the template in question.".
 * My concerns and reason for going this route:


 * 1) No constructive discussion on the article talk page. Why is information or content in an article "not" appropriate to discuss on that article?
 * 2)- If the problem is concerning many templates are we not suppose to inquire here? It would not make sense to have to post to every template talk page on every article in question?
 * 3)- When I am told that the AfD is over so move on, drop the stick, and "Move on...I'm done discussing these settled issues with you as well "Otr500".". I think it is time to seek assistance elsewhere and this seems the appropriate place.
 * Mr. Milowent stated on the article talk page "It allows for easy navigation within and among articles; when a playmate has a separate article, it directs there.". The whole stated purpose for these "list articles" instead of a regular article was because most of the Playmates are not notable enough to have an independent article. "The majority" of the more than 700 Playmates will be notable for only their appearance in Playboy. When an article title is created, which happens to be of people, that redirects to a list article, and there is a template on that list article that lists the very same names, as blue links, that redirects "back" to the very same article, I think I have valid concerns as to how this helps Wikipedia. The entire link coloring is pretty much all but done away with. It can't very well aid navigation as it doesn't navigate anywhere and the top halves of the templates on the other articles (some listed above) are specific to that article with the same circular links. I have not even looked to see if a "to be announced" for future names is acceptable but again these "links" redirect back to the same article.
 * I see problems and the project page states "If you would like to help, please inquire on the project's talk page" and I have simply asked "Would someone check this out please?". Otr500 (talk) 07:39, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I will ask for assistance else where, Otr500 (talk) 08:37, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Some improvements to the Notenglish template desired
Hi, I would greatly appreciate if someone could make some improvements to Template:Not English, detailed at the talk page. Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:17, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

"lang-en-XX" templates for deletion
I nominated such templates on 2014 August 13. Join in discussion. --George Ho (talk) 05:53, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Bug on Template:Former TAFI
This template (a template used on talk pages of former Today's article for improvement) only ever displays the articles new class as B class, which makes it really not useful. Since there are so few people watching that template and it had no talk page before I posted about the bug, I thought I'd mention something here for it. I don't suppose anyone would mind taking a quick look and seeing if they see anything. Zell Faze (talk) 14:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC) Please   me in your response as I am not watching this page
 * It appears that there is also a discussion of this issue taking place on a user talk page. Zell Faze (talk) 15:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Tlf
has been proposed to be renamed. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 01:36, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Tagging template link templates?
Shouldn't templatespace maintenance templates such as tl sport some sort of WPTemplates indicator on their talk pages? (Though I do understand the diffculty in coding a method to restrict it to such templates, as it may require pagename detection for rejection criteria) WP:AFC has two different banners, so there may be something for a second banner template. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 01:36, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Tlc
has been nominated for renaming -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 01:45, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Unwanted line break
When I add the documentation link to the template I end up with an annoying line break User:CambridgeBayWeather/Test. I've removed it from the template I had it in. So what am I doing wrong? CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 23:17, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The opening noinclude tag must go at the end of the final line of the template, not start a new line. --Mirokado (talk) 23:27, 22 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I knew it would be something simple. CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 02:11, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Help with template for WikiProject Women writers


Need help with talk page template for WikiProject Women writers -- want it to have parameters class, importance, photo requested, infobox needed. Could someone take a look? Monumenteer2014camper (talk) 15:19, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, now done, incl. doc page. I moved the template to, partly because it's normal to have the template name match the WikiProject page name; partly because some of the internal coding is easier if they match. Please note that the last two parameters are needs-photo and needs-infobox, these being the "normal" names for such parameters. There are a number of categories that need creating, as noted by the error messages with redlinks. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:02, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I'm working on creating cats. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Template Style
<div style="float: ; background-image: radial-gradient(center, ellipse closest-side, #ff0080, #4080ff 75%, #ff80ff);; box-shadow: -20px   6px   22px   #ff0000;; border:6px dotted #00ff00; width: 12em; border-radius: 48px 12px 30px 0px;;  margin-left:2em; margin-bottom:2em; ">Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit.

I was drawn to the issue of template style by the bugtrack Template:Tracked. The pale gradient effect makes my eyes itch, and the rounded counters clash with the rest of Wikipedia style. I wasn't aware of WikiProject Templates at the time and I started a discussion at Village_pump_(idea_lab). So far it has small but unanimous support.

Thinking more generally, perhaps there should exist a WP:Manual_of_Style/templates similar to WP:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes. My immediate focus was be something similar to WP:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes:
 * Style, color and formatting


 * General consistency should be aimed for across articles using the same infobox in template style. A good guideline is not to add extraneous style formatting over that in a default infobox template without good reason. Infoboxes may tend towards greater abbreviation than that generally used in article bodies . The general guidelines WP:NBSP (use of non-breaking spaces), WP:MOSNUM (numbers and dates), and WP:COLOR (use of color) are likely to be particularly relevant. As with navigation templates, the purpose of the infobox template is for its utility, not appearance; therefore, infobox templates should not be arbitrarily decorative.

<div style="float: ; background-image: radial-gradient(center, ellipse closest-side, #888, #585858 75%, #ffffff);; box-shadow: -20px   6px   22px   #404040;; border:6px dotted #606060; width: 12em; border-radius: 48px 12px 30px 0px;;  margin-left:2em; margin-bottom:2em; ">Eliminating the crazy colors doesn't help much, chuckle.

Perhaps some of the style docs should have some text discouraging their use without good reason. This would include, but not limited to: Template:Radial-gradient, Template:Box-shadow, Template:Border-radius, Template:Linear-gradient, and probably the {dotted, dashed, double, groove, ridge, inset, outset} styles in Template:Border.<P> At the moment templates in general are great and I was merely suggesting a Manual_of_Style to reflect existing style. There's just something about that pale gradient in Template:Tracked that gnaws at my eyes. The rare occurrence of round corners is also a bit out of place. Alsee (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)</P>

Template for electricity generation???
Please look at the tables in this section: Nebraska.

Would you please recommend an existing template that I can use to produce the first table? Thanks. --LukasMatt (talk) 02:40, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there something wrong with the table as it currently exists? VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">cont 03:33, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * For the Checkwiki Project, I need to convert the table from HTML to wiki markup. Needless to say, it makes more sense to use a standardized template than to reconstruct the same table over and over again in separate articles.  I'm looking for something similar to  but for electricity generation.
 * --LukasMatt (talk) 03:42, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ahh, got it. I don't know of one offhand, but I'd be happy to program it up for you if you can't find anything. What's your timeframe on this User:LukasMatt? VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">cont 03:59, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You are very kind. I couldn't find anything, so I came here.  Whatever is convenient for you.  Thanks.
 * --LukasMatt (talk) 04:10, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm posting to prevent topic archiving. I'm a programmer with minimal template experience. I'm making no promises, but there's a chance I may pick up this up in the future as my first try at a real template project. Alsee (talk) 14:49, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Toolserver
Since WMF killed Toolserver several of the templates include URLs which are no longer functional. An example of this is ISP. I posted to the talk page of this template to have it updated but it has few watchers so IDK when it'll be resolved. Is there a way to produce a list of templates utilizing Toolserver so they may be updated as well? -- dsprc   [talk]  11:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Please can we not have libellous comments like "WMF killed Toolserver"? Credit where credit is due: Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE), not WMF, maintained Toolserver, and it was WMDE's decision to stop supporting it after 30 June 2014. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:57, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Template:MGH
This template seems not to be working - even the example given on its own documentation page simply spits out an error message. This is a shame because it would be really neat if it did work. I am technologically illiterate, so I was wondering if someone here might be able to identify the issue. Furius (talk) 16:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think that it's ever worked in full; it only seems to work as documented when the first parameter is either SSrerGerm or Staatsschriften. may have more information. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:53, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It uses sub-templates, but only those two exist. Need to copy the sub-templates from the German Wikipedia. But there should be a better way to do this. --  Gadget850talk 17:58, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I've fixed this. I've added the additional templates and the existing links now seem to work, including the example. Let me know if you pick up any problems. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! Furius (talk) 20:09, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

GLAMwiki Directory template
Hi all, I'd like some help with a template I'm piloting for use on the GLAMwiki pages. I made a formal request but nothing has happened. The plan is to create a directory of pages for each institution which has worked with the GLAMwiki movement. This was approved by the GLAMwiki community at my session at Wikimania. There is a rough template in my sandbox based on the Foundation's Template:User info. I've produced some mock ups in this Prezi that was presented at Wikimania. Unfortunately I can't seem to get my head around the JSON elements and how to create the whole range of new fields that are required. Some help would be massively appreciated! I'm sure that there will be questions about it so please do get in touch. Many thanks! PatHadley (talk) 15:32, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The "See"s have it in for me
I don't know if this is a bug, or if I'm doing it wrong:

Ebola virus disease article, at present, contains the following hatnote ("{" changed to "(" so they'll display; boldface indicates changes from previous):

((redirect|Ebola))
 * ...resulting in:
 * "Ebola" redirects here. For other uses, see Ebola (disambiguation)."

Wishing to link the ungainly-named ongoing outbreak article in the hatnote to have the following desired appearance:


 * "Ebola" redirects here. For other uses, see Ebola (disambiguation). For the ongoing outbreak, see Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa.

...I extended the template thus thus:

((redirect|Ebola|the ongoing outbreak|Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa))
 * ...resulting in
 * "Ebola" redirects here. For the ongoing outbreak, see Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa.
 * ...which killed the disambiguation link. Grr...

Next attempt, long-handing the disambig back in:

((redirect|Ebola|other uses, see|Ebola (disambiguation)|the ongoing outbreak|Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa))
 * "Ebola" redirects here. For other uses, see, see Ebola (disambiguation). For the ongoing outbreak, see Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa.
 * ...resulting in multiple "see"s. Derp!

So, all I have to do now is remove the ", see" -- right?
 * ((redirect|Ebola|other uses|Ebola (disambiguation)|the ongoing outbreak|Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa))
 * "Ebola" redirects here. For other uses, see Ebola (disambiguation).
 * ...which is identical to just ((redirect|Ebola)).

Ugh. I'm fetching my shotgun to put this thing down.--Froglich (talk) 21:14, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I've used Redirect6; I went straight ahead and added it rather than posting here as such templates often don't work or do odd things if not used where they should be, such as on talk pages. For future reference if you look through the list at WP:HATNOTE there's usually one which does what you need.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 22:58, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks.--Froglich (talk) 00:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Help standardizing a template
I'm a member of WikiProject Animation and noticed a request for comment at Template:Care Bears. An editor wanted to know whether the various companies that have been involved with the franchise - of which there have been several - should all be listed in the template. Personally, I would lean toward keeping the companies in the template. This isn't my area of expertise though. It would be helpful if there was some way to determine what the standard approach is when dealing with a franchise that has been worked on by several different companies. As I'm not aware of any Manual of Style for templates, this seems like the best place to seek guidance. Can anyone weigh in? --Jpcase (talk) 00:56, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The RfC is not on the template page but on its talk page, specifically Template talk:Care Bears. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:15, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Right. My mistake. I meant to say the talk page. Thanks for correcting that. --Jpcase (talk) 14:12, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

TemplateData: Extending use; removing redundancy
Please see my proposal for combining TemplateData and template parameter documentation; and including Wikidata equivalences. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:01, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Citing sources
Is it possible to cite sources in templates using the ref tag? I tried to, but the reference list appears in the article page using that template in the wrong place.

--Devbug (talk) 16:50, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Please give an example where this is happening. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:55, 18 December 2014 (UTC)


 * for example in the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Enel&oldid=638654900 Enel template] I put some references (which now I removed). If I put them back, they would show in the article using the template (e.g. from Francesco Starace). Shall I put the references back? I am pretty sure I am not using them as I should. Thanks --Devbug (talk) 16:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a navbox. We don't normally put references in those: is there some reason that you feel that they are necessary? -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah no, I can surely avoid putting them there. It was a sort of pedantry. Thanks --Devbug (talk) 17:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Request
Can someone help make Category:NFL Free agent currentteam parameter articles for maintenance. There is one titled Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles already. The categories correspond to Template:Infobox NFL player. I tried to but couldn't figure out. Thanks WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 19:21, 4 January 2015 (UTC) Net it out: (1) why do your need these categories? (2) what are you trying to track? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:20, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If it is just a temporary maint category, why does it matter if there is one out of place capital letter? Fixing this would be a pain. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 19:29, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's to keep articles up to date, people enter Free agent and Free Agent into the infobox. I updated like 800 articles using the Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles a while ago. Many people are listed as free agents years after they last played. The Category:NFL Free agent would be helpful for the many articles that have "Free agent" in the infobox. I just used the Category:NFL Retired currentteam parameter articles to fix around 30 articles. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 20:21, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I understand what you want now, I've made the one not being used a category redirect to the one in use. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 20:55, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I want Category:NFL Free agent currentteam parameter articles to be populated with players like Tim Tebow who have "Free agent" in the infobox. The pages in Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles all have "Free Agent" in their infoboxes. Sorry for the confusion. If you look at Template:Infobox NFL player, it has the Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles and others in the source code. If you don't know how to do it you just forget about it. The redirect didn't put any other articles in the Free Agent category. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:06, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why you want to have two categories for the same thing. Put them all in one category. , please help one of understand what the other is saying.  Thank you. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 21:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * To update out of date articles. Free agents who haven't played in years. The articles in the Free Agent category have "Free Agent" in the |currentteam parameter. There isn't one for those with "Free agent." WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * User: Paine Ellsworth made it where all spellings of Free Agent in the source code display as Free agent and the two different spellings are in one category. All is good now. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:47, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a waste of time to worry about whether they are in Category:NFL Free agent currentteam parameter articles or Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles for a maintenance category. I'm in the process of running through all 600 pages in the later and null editing them to move them to the former. , this change was kind of against consensus, but it's really not worth making a big deal about except I'll be spending the next two hours of my time cleaning up this change... *sigh*... — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 22:10, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You don't have to do that, you know. Give it a little time and they'll all autotransfer. – <small style="font-size:85%;"> Paine    22:16, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * PS. It's not a waste of time, btw, it's "policy"; just check WP:NCCAT, bullet one. PS added by Paine
 * Just for the record, the articles currently titled as "Free agent" in the source code used to not have their own category and did not appear in the Free Agent category because of the different spellings, Now they are all one. They do change automatically btw. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:19, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , except that there are about [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=statistics 17.8 million jobs] in the queue which would take months for it to update this..., they don't actually... I moved them manually, one by one... — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 22:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ps WP:PROJCATS aren't subject to WP:NCCAT. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 22:29, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I cheated and two hours worth of work took me half an hour, but Category:NFL Free Agent currentteam parameter articles is now empty. Have fun. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 22:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Good for you, Tech 13. Might be interesting if you would tell us about exactly how you "cheated".  Also, I didn't read anywhere that project cats are exempt from the naming-conventions policy.  How ever did you get that idea? – <small style="font-size:85%;"> Paine    22:45, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I cheated by writing a blurp of disposable .js code that opened all of the pages 10 at a time in new tabs in my browser with ?action=purge&forcelinkupdate=true appended to the end. It did 10 at a time, waited 30 seconds in between starting each set, and closed sets after two minutes. Naming-convention policy applies to content cats, which these aren't.  As for where I got that idea,  has things like  which has been around since 13:35, August 21, 2005.‎  — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 23:54, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Guys, just to be perfectly clear: we all understand that it should read "Free agent" when used in the current team field, right? Per MOS:CAPS, right? Not "Free Agent," right? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, and if the "currentteam" parameter of Infobox NFL player has either "Free Agent", "Free agent" or "free agent" entered, the header on the readable subject page will appear as "Free agent". – <small style="font-size:85%;"> Paine Ellsworth  <span style="font-family:;font-size:;color:;background-color:;;"> 08:47, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Participants List
has alphabetised the participants list and changed the templates used, stripping off the members joining dates in the process. Personally I liked the list as it was. If I'm looking for help it's more useful to know who's been active in templates and for how long rather than who's ahead of me alphabetically. Rather than summarily revert the change I'd like to solicit some opinion. How does everyone else feel? Bazj (talk) 10:15, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The joining dates are still there, though the template is not displaying them. Perhaps post at Template talk:Mailing list member? -- John of Reading (talk) 10:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As John says, the dates are actually still there, they are just moved into the template. This update is part of a project I've been working on to update all the mailing lists into a  compatible format.  I'm also working on a userscript that will make updating mailing lists so much easier.  Part of this project will be to overhaul Module:Mailing list member to support joined dates and user group flags (I've noticed some projects have requested users to indicate if they are in a particular group to be able to assist other project members with restricted actions, such as administrator).  I'm also planning on changing the inactive parameter in the module to a more friendly lastactive format. All that said, the end result will be a much more accurate way to see who has(n't) been active in projects, how long they've been around, and what special groups they may have to make collaboration easier. Anyways, thank you for pinging me with your concern, I always welcome feedback! — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 14:36, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Can't complain about dogfood. I've got a couple of ideas bubbling up that I'll take to the template's talk page shortly. Thanks for the prompt answer. Bazj (talk) 18:25, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Request from the Ant task force
Hello! I need help with adding three parameters to Template:WikiProject Insects (sandbox).
 * What I'm looking for:
 * "This article is supported by the Ant task force (marked as Top-importance)." (example: Template:WikiProject Antarctica)
 * "This article has been marked as needing immediate attention." (example: Template:WikiProject Alabama)
 * Parameters:
 * Categories (which I intend to create once this has been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Insects)
 * Category:Ant task force
 * Category:Ant task force articles
 * Category:Ant articles by importance
 * Category:Ant articles by quality
 * Category:Ant articles needing attention
 * Category:Ant articles needing photos ( is already implemented, but if someone experienced in template black magic could combine it with , that would be really helpful)
 * Category:Ant articles by quality
 * Category:Ant articles needing attention
 * Category:Ant articles needing photos ( is already implemented, but if someone experienced in template black magic could combine it with , that would be really helpful)

Any help would be wonderful. Thanks! jonkerz ♠talk 16:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I started off by creating the sandbox, as a straight duplicate of the live template. Adding provision for attention is - the code used by  includes a parameter that is superfluous, and one that is invalid. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:28, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Adding the task force is done . You may want a different image. Note I set it to recognise yes and not yes, because we normally omit  from parameter names (in fact, I don't know of any that do that). -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Redrose64! Much appreciated, and "ants=yes" is better than "ants-task-force". About Category:Ant articles needing photos and Category:Ant articles needing attention, maybe it makes more sense to use WP:CatScan to find articles in need of photos/attention, instead of implementing this in the banner like I initially suggested? Categories makes browsing easier, but I suspect that implementing it is a nightmare. jonkerz ♠talk 15:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I forgot about those last two cats. I know this can be done, see for example the that I added to Talk:Hainault depot where the combination of yes yes puts the page into  instead of . -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I looked at how it was done in Trains, it uses which I decided was overcomplicated for a simple "ants/other insects" choice. So I've done it . -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:05, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This is exactly what I'm looking for, thanks again! jonkerz ♠talk 14:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Section link templates
Once upon a time, there was a template called “sectionlink”. It was born in the fourth year of the reign of Wikipedia from Jdorje’s brain and lived happily, but not ever after. Seven years after its creation, another template by the spaceful name of section link first saw the light of day. To the dismay of the good citizens of the land, the two were jealous of each other’s name. The newcomer claimed that it could do everything the incumbent could do, so the spaceless template got axed and purged from the records. Not only was it ignominiously changed to a redirect to its nemesis, but also its history was mercilessly obliterated. Not long after, a fearless knight with the fearsome name 174.141.182.82 valiantly fought to bring the old template back to life, making the case that the new one couldn’t do all the old one could. But just when he thought the battle was won, a third template by the name of Article section, (which incidentally had had a very similar fate, having been speedily engaged, slowly engaged and then saved by a hairsbreath) came out of an ambush and claimed it could do everything the good old template could. The battle ended when the fearless knight nobly admitted defeat. However, it is not actually true that the two newer templates can do what the old one could. Here are two examples for each template:

The old sectionlink, used with two parameters like displayed only the plain section name, and simply linked to that section: The new section link doesn't notice that the link is to another page: And article section does not take a second parameter and thus can't provide the actual section. In addition, its name is limited only to articles, not lending itself to links to other pages. I would like to be able to use the old functionality, as I have for years. I understand that its old name is too similar to the new template, so I’m wondering if I can restore it under a new name, say “pslink”, short for “plain section link”. &mdash; Sebastian 01:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Diodes
 * Брак


 * I don't think I've ever heard of a sectionlink before... — jdorje (talk) 08:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi jdorje, nice to see that you're still around. You don't remember what you did on 06:19, November 17, 2005? To jog your memory, I merged the history so you can see it with your own eyes. I presume it was just a mistake that the history was deleted, since there is obviously nothing to hide. &mdash; Sebastian 08:51, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * "The new section link doesn't notice that the link is to another page." That is because you are invoking the module directly in your example: . Don't do that. Something like this works:  → . Go read the template documentation please and let us know what you don't understand. --   Gadget850talk 08:57, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, since nobody saw any problem with recreating it under a different name, I just recreated it as proposed. &mdash; Sebastian 09:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I have a problem. Your examples just don't make any sense to me. Creating pslink is not going to help. --  Gadget850talk 09:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you have a problem with? Is it why there is #invoke in the code? That just happened automatically; the actual code I entered is the one in the hidden comment, e.g. . The reason why I substituted the template was because I didn't want my examples to change when the templates get edited. Without substitution, currently, the six examples are as follows:
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope this clarifies it. It's already past my bed time; please forgive me for any delays of my reply. &mdash; Sebastian 09:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * 1 and 2 are your sandbox.
 * 3 and 4 use section link: they work as expected
 * 5 and 6 use article section
 * --  Gadget850talk 01:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I presume that section link is now working for you. --  Gadget850talk 14:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for asking, and for pinging me. I haven’t seen it achieve the desired output of my above examples. But don’t worry about it; I’m happy with Pslink, which does that just fine. As far as I’m concerned, we can mark this topic as resolved. &mdash; Sebastian 01:31, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry I can't help you. Recreating a deleted template is not the answer if others have the same issue. Out. --  Gadget850talk 11:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Stereo image template
Could I draw your attention here please:


 * Template talk:Stereo image

Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox of individuals that have no religion.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:57, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Deleted Template

 * Informal request for comments: A template was deleted, with four commenting (Templates for deletion/Log/2009 May 12), and I am just looking into this. I ran into a problem involving the Dead link tag in the main body concerning references. In researching I found:


 * Keeping dead links section explains, "Placing auto-categorizes the article into Articles with dead external links project category, and into specific monthly date range category based on |date= parameter.".
 * This confused me so I dug deeper and sent a message to the closing admin User talk:Magioladitis with some of what I found. He was agreeable to opening a wider discussion so here I am.
 * I think the Dead references tag and associated category(s) has a need and will prevent the wrong category listing of a tag meant for the external links section. There is reference to  Citing sources but this just gives info on "Preventing and repairing dead links". WikiProject External links is obviously about the external links. Otr500 (talk) 00:24, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What is the issue here? The documentation makes it quite clear that the template is meant for use with broken citation/reference links, and not external links placed in an "External links" section. "Editors occasionally encounter dead links either within a paragraph or a reference citation. ... Avoid using this template to identify dead external links that are not used as references for article content. Instead, dead external links should usually be removed. See the guideline for external links." Alakzi (talk) 00:37, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Moving Template_talk namespace testcases and sandboxes
The vast majority (2500) of testcase subpages are in Template namespace, but about 90 are currently in the Template_talk namespace. This is true also of sandbox pages, with 5000 and 450 respectively. I am considering standardizing these by moving and redirecting the testcases/sandboxes that do not contain talk discussion, from the Template_talk to the Template namespace.

I realize that for Modules, the Module_talk testcases are meant for results of the tests (Lua). That does not seem to be the case for templates, from WP:TESTCASES and by inspecting the many Template_talk testcases/sandboxes. All Template_talk: subpages seem to be either substituted or duplicated, not maintained versions of the Template: testcases page. Also note that Documentation/end_box links exclusively to the Template namespace, and will prompt to create the page if it is instead located on Template_talk.

Before I undertake such a large task I want to solicit some opinions. Does this standardization to non-talk space sound like a good idea? Any suggestions on tools/techniques for semi-automating the moves? Mamyles (talk) 23:50, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd probably check with WP:Bot requests to see if a bot could do the mass move for you. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">cont 00:26, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * First question I have is why are they in Tt in the first place? Are these cases where there are instance of bot T:/sandbox and Tt:/sandbox or T:/testcases and Tt:/testcases (to match /sandboxes) or are these cases where there are no /sandbox or /testcase page at all (and is that because they were deleted)? I'd like to understand the whole story for each case before moving things around. :) —  00:38, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Out of a handful of testcase samples from a title search, most of them were created by IP addresses trying to test templates. The rest were by registered editors trying to test with multiple pages, which I personally believe would be better addressed by a Template:Example/testcases2. About half only have a Template_talk, half have both. Mamyles (talk) 00:46, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Mamyles, one might also consider, especially since this is about templates, that the talk page of a testcases page may be used to show sandbox testers how their versions may appear on a talk page, which is often different from how the template looks on a subject page. – <b style="font-size:85%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">Paine</b> 17:51, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * PS. And most of those talk pages should probably redirect to the main-Template:Talk pages, anyway. PS left by – <b style="font-size:85%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">Paine</b>

Template:Randy Newman
Per this earlier discussion, should we be including films scored by Randy Newman in his navbox? Input requested at Template talk:Randy Newman. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:48, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Template issue
I have noticed something odd happening with templates across multiple pages and subjects. The auto-hide option, and the option to hide in general, has vanished from them, leaving them permanently open. Is this just a new decision, or has something off happened? I would really like to know. All these templates and similar lists being opened can make going through a page awkward. --ProtoDrake (talk) 09:07, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Also look at the 'Star Trek: Voyager' template at the bottom of Star Trek: Voyager, where the 'Characters' are now visible above the template although when looking at the template home page itself all is well. Randy Kryn 10:37, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Redlinks in navboxes
Here we go again. Can someone have a look at Anthony Trollope and James Fenimore Cooper. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * See also conversation that has started at User_talk:Randy_Kryn, Sadads (talk) 13:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Linking to other wikimedia projects from navboxes.
Please see this proposal: Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * See also conversation that has started at User_talk:Randy_Kryn, Sadads (talk) 13:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I apologize for accusing a user,, of Vandalism, that was inappropriate as he was acting in good faith per his understanding of the guidelines. Please join this new discussion, as it's actually about a guideline which should probably be encouraged. Thanks. Randy Kryn 13:12, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Unlinked text and redlinks in navboxes per WP:EXISTING
I've been tidying up a number of templates per WP:EXISTING, only to have them reverted. See John Banville, Anthony Trollope, James Fenimore Cooper, Richard Bean, Colin Bateman, among others. please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:00, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Lookup
Is it possible, within Wiki code, to look up information from a data table and display it on a particular article using templates?

What I would like to do is have a centralised table containing the population data for each locality in Israel, and then have a template that can look up a certain locality on that list and display the population figure. This template would then be inserted into the infoboxes of the localities, replacing the manually entered population figure.

The idea is that when the annual population figures update is released, only the table would have to be updated, rather than hundreds of individual articles. I'm sure this concept would have numerous other applications, but the question is whether it is possible or not. Cheers, Number   5  7  15:52, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

RFC regarding links to sister projects in navboxes
Please see Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The question is really about two sister projects, "Wikiquote" and "Wikisource", but wants to make it about all sister projects (the RFC by  was mistaken in its scope, and Sadads asked us to modify it. I changed it to reflect the original question minus 'Commons' (which was removed after a legit concern), Robsinden brought that into an edit war, and now I can't revert a third time, leaving the inaccurate RFC question visible for the time being until Sadads can come by. Please take the original question, which pertains only to 'Wikiquote' and 'Wikisource texts' into your consideration and not adding the entire sister project universe to templates, which, although I presented the original question, even I would oppose. Thanks. Randy Kryn 12:04, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This is not the forum for this, this is nothing more than a notification of discussion. Stop being childish.  If you have a problem with the question as it was asked in the original RFC, bring it up at Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates, rather than edit the question. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:23, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Saddas asked us to edit. Please do not start with namecalling. When Saddas comes by maybe he can modify it per discussion on his talk page (the main focus is on appropriate templates, but I read his proposal, as others might, to include all sister projects on all templates), so it may not be clear to some that it is a limited and not an open-ended proposal. Randy Kryn 12:45, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

List of local pages with slow parsing
A list of slow pages has been published for your wiki (and all wikis). You can use the list to find and monitor pages which are very slow to view for registered users and preview during edit; those pages probably need their templates to be converted to Lua, or other actions. See example output for it.wiki. Please ask more questions on T98563 if possible. 13:57, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Visible title discussion at the Hillary Clinton template
There is a discussion taking place on the talk page of her template navbox concerning what name to use as the visible name of the template, 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' or 'Hillary Clinton'. Randy Kryn 21:13, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Consistent formatting of template titles for navboxes of literary works
I have created many templates based on novels, plays, poems, epic poems, short stories, novellas, musicals, mythology, and operas. I have noticed recent back and forth editing of the titles and now would like to see if we can develop some consensus regarding the formatting of them. There are two main issues: 1.) Should the template titles have author first such as Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist or work first such as Boris Godunov by Alexander Pushkin? and 2.) Should the date of the work be included in the title such as Author Work (YYYY) or Work by Author (YYYY)?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:57, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd like to call this discussion to the attention of, , , ,  among others.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:05, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Others who may be interested include who has created a ton of these templates,  and  who have edited many of my templates.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:21, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Support adding the years of first publication on the book templates. These templates list films, plays, poems, etc., each more often than not bearing the date of first presentation. These templates are named after the book, so the book itself is not included within the template. Including the date in the title thus sets the stage (as well as giving information about the main topic, info which is allowed for every entry within the template) for the films, plays, and other related subjects based on the main topic - the book itself. So, yes, adding the year seem both appropriate and informative. Randy Kryn 2:07, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * can you comment on the order of the title?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:08, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If the author's name is last where would the date of publication go? "Fifty-Thousand Shades of Grey (2018) by Randy Kryn" seems a bit awkward, so I'm leaning to the authors name first, book second, and then the year of publication, but can be persuaded with the right argument, or right shade of grey. Randy Kryn 2:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I too am in favor of including the year in the title. I think it is helpful to the reader. I have no preference on the order, but feel there should be consistency. It seems that more have the author first, but I don't know if this means it is the correct way to do things.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:19, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Just one question, if we are writing the title as Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist or say Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens. What would be the template's title? Simple "Template:Oliver Twist" or "Template:Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist"? -- Captain Assassin! «T ♦ C ♦ G» 02:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There have been no attempts to compound the template name regardless of its title. In all cases the title includes both the name of the author and name of the work. It is just a matter of order. Only the name of the work appears in the template name.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:48, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I too would support the author's name first. As for the inclusion of the year, I think it's a good idea in general, but would present significant problems in relation to Shakespeare insofar as we only know the definite year of composition of one of his plays, Henry V. All the others are estimates, often ranging over a three or four year period, or more in several cases. So I think to include a definite date of composition in the case of Shakespeare templates would be a bad idea. But in the case of other authors, by all means. Bertaut (talk) 03:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose adding the year. This is information overload and fall outside the scope of a navbox. They're not articles. The templates are part of the (main) article, where such information is already available. The years in the link lists only appear where titles are ambiguous. Let's keep information not essential for navigation to a minimum.  09:00, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe a difference in point of view. To me a template is not part of the main article, but a stand-alone map of a topic. That map is then used on the home article as well as on articles which augment it, in essence a site-wide information-map available to someone reading or researching a subject. A template maps out this subject for the reader, and a book's template should probably contain somewhere within it the year of first publication. Since the only place on a template where that book is mentioned or linked is in the title, and since many casual readers may think that, for example, Frankenstein (let alone know that what they think is Frankenstein is Frankenstein's creation) was born fully grown in an "old movie", a prominent identifying date places it historically within their own mental map of a subject. That's my two cents, now worth an eighth-of-a-cent as calculated by the cost of postage stamps. Randy Kryn 11:47, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose adding the year, for reasons similar to User:Edokter's. A navbox is a handy list of articles related to a single topic; the job of the navbox title is simply to name that topic as succinctly as possible. Adding in the date of the work is needless (and, since the topic is always linked to the work, the date's never more than a click away anyway). For the same reason of succinctness, I highly recommend the author-first convention.--Lemuellio (talk) 14:00, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, say the topic is Frankenstein. Many people will see the name and assume the template just means "Here are topics related to that monster", open it, and see the movie and comics, and know nothing about the original because it isn't listed in the body of the template. Not everyone knows to click on everything. Let me give two other options: 1) to allow the original book to have a section in the template, right at the beginning, or 2) to make the year smaller (so it looks "cleaner"), either within the title Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (1818) or outside of the title Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (1818) .  In this way the reader will have a sense of the timeline. And if you take the guideline 'As succinctly as possible' legalistically, Shelley's name would be left out and wouldn't be found anywhere on the template. That would be a loss of important data, and thus wouldn't fulfill the purpose of the template to provide links to all pertinent articles. Does that make sense? Randy Kryn 19:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, but it's hard for me to envision these hypothetical readers who understand the purpose of a navbox ("Here are topics related to that monster") but don't think of clicking on the big bold blue text that says Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. One of the conventions of Wikipedia is that, if you see blue text that underlines itself on mouseover, you're looking at a link. And, since navboxes collect links related to a topic, it makes good sense to me to put the main topic link in the most conspicuous, obvious, intuitive place: the visible title.
 * As for author names, they're included in navbox titles simply because there isn't any other obvious place for them. The author link should obviously be included somewhere in the navbox, but creating an "Author" subcategory just for a single link seems silly. So, for lack of a better solution, the visible title works just fine. (In situations where there are multiple authors, such as Template:Baron Munchausen, an "Author" subcategory does become appropriate, and so the author names are not included in the title.)--Lemuellio (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, but look at some of the templates. Take your pick of any book which is either esteemed enough or lucky enough to have its own template, simply because it has articles on its characters, films of-the-same-name made by using the book as a structure, and the other plays, poems, and sometimes statues written, sung, and constructed about the book. Some of them are wonderful books. Open one of those templates, and betcha dollars-to-donuts that some, most, or all of the films, plays, adaptations, and related performance events contained within have years attached to them. Yet the main book itself, be it Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or a book held in such high regard that everyone in the world is aware of the year of its first publication, is the only book, film, play, poem, or traveling circus not allowed to convey information about the year. Yes, the main book is linked, but so are all the other links on the template, all of which can include the year it was first put before the public. So...., long story longer, another option if this one "fails": allow templates about books to include, as their first section, a section entitled 'Main book and author" (with a break after 'book' so the title isn't too long horizontally). That would usually be just a two item section, which could include the year. That sounds fair, but would duplicate most of the data in the title, so adding the year in the title of the template (along with the author and the book title) makes the most sense and passes along the most information, probably the major goal of any template. Long winded (or wind-aided) here, thanks for bearing with me. Randy Kryn 22:40, 22 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you there: it's very strange to see year information attached to every single link in a navbox except the main article itself. As far as I can tell, this situation has come about because of a trend to include lots of information in navboxes; instead of a simple identifier like "Frankenstein (traveling circus)" in a navbox, we often get lengthy descriptors like "Frankenstein (1971 Armenian traveling circus)", even if it's the only traveling circus in the list.
 * I don't think, though, that the way to deal with this overgrowth of information is to encourage it by extending its concept to the navbox title. Rather, I'd suggest pruning year information, and other extraneous data, out of navboxes whenever possible. If navboxes exist simply to facilitate navigation to related articles—and I think that's the case—then there's no need to burden down every link with descriptive information.
 * In other words, I think all we need in a navbox is just enough parenthetical information to distinguish one article from another. Passing along information is what Wikipedia is all about, but I don't think we need to burden navboxes with a responsibility to pass along the most information possible about the articles they list. That's a job much better suited to, and much more easily accomplished by, the articles themselves.--Lemuellio (talk) 02:29, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * lol at links. The year of first publications seem fine in a template, as they provide both the career chronological order as well as placing the works in a readable map. So if it's an "either/or" situation (remove all years in all templates which list books, films, director's films, etc., or add the year in the title of book templates) adding the year seems the less drastic take. Even if all other years were removed (from films, books, etc.) an argument can still be made that the year of the main book should be kept or added. (and a ping and 'shout out' to, who's created lots of author templates) Randy Kryn 11:44, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Ran across another template where I almost added the year, but am not sure how this discussion affects the process. Pinging another editor who has created many literary templates,, who may have others that he can ping. Randy Kryn 19:47, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose adding year. The navbox is for navigation, not information.  I would suggest the order to be in the format "WORK by AUTHOR" as the work is the primary subject of the navbox, not the author, and also because this avoids any controversy regarding the possessive (For example, "Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist" vs. "Charles Dickens's Oliver Twist" - see WP:POSS).  --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:28, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * With sections, dates, chronological unfolding of events, listings of pathways to things like commons, wikiquote, and wikisource, to me a template is for both navigation and information. A well made template gives a map to a subject, a readable map, and for book topics that map really should include the year of first publication of the main topic. Since dates are allowed on templates, it's either/or: either add the year of first publication into the title (which seems very appropriate and gives important information right from the start), or add it to the first section of the template. Allowing the date of every movie, play, etc. of the main subject but not the date of the main subject just seems to be an odd guideline to implement and enforce (this topic seems to have started when editors removed the year from the title of a few templates, and clarity was sought). Randy Kryn 18:58, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. The year of publication of Oliver Twist is irrelevant in the navbox and does not aid navigation.  Year should only be used when disambiguation is necessary.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:53, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Support adding the year - these are creative works: for most members of the public, it easy to muddle several different works with the same title. Moreover, most authorship is treated as a chronological item: if you are going between different works by an author: it is absolutely essential to understand the difference between works. The year improves navigation, and ability to make informed choices about navigation Sadads (talk) 15:28, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, notified relevant projects: Novels, Literature, Children's lit, and Film, Sadads (talk) 15:32, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Support adding the year — this is a topic which has been discussed more than once at WikiProject Film and affects all genres and disciplines. A discussion regarding nine film templates (which touches upon some of the issues raised here) is still unresolved after four weeks at Templates for discussion/Log/2015 May 1. Navboxes deserve to be regarded as stand-alone entities designed to provide at-a-glance overview of the topic at hand. Years and even sorting-by-decade should not be considered as hindrances or clutter, but rather as navigation aids which provide instant access to the desired topic. Such chronological arrangements are essential to a clear understanding of the matter at hand by providing quick visual comprehension of the spacing of creative output (books, films, other works of art) and instantly enabling their placement within an understandable historical context. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 18:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Query Can you please provide actual examples of the use of years in navboxes to which you specifically object, and then provide a succinct, one-stent rationale why this should be prohibited?  Thanks.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm, how about The Prince and the Pauper for example. The year in the title is unnecessary as it isn't needed to identify the topic.  (Incidentally, I also don't think that the films that aren't called "The Prince and the Pauper" need the years either except to provide disambiguation, as per our article title policy).  --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:51, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Query  Can you please provide actual examples where you have inserted the years of publication in navboxes, and also how you would propose to limit the unlinked text in navboxes to this particular purpose?  Also can you provide a succinct, one-sentence rationale for this?  Thanks.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello . The year in the template title, such as on the Frankenstein template, provides a chronological touchstone to readers who make mental maps of a subject and are provided the years of the Wikipedia-covered films, plays, and related books and projects which use the main novel as their foundation. Adding the year of first publication of, for example, Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein' (1818), completes the chronological ordering of the subject. Randy Kryn 11:02, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Similarly, Moby-Dick. The distance between the original work and adaptations with the same name provide guidance for the reader to choose the one they are most interested in, Sadads (talk) 14:17, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose adding years, except when needed for disambiguation (e.g. when two works share the same title). The navbox is for navigation, not info, and in many cases the year isn't the most defining information anyway. Many classics didn't become widely read until long after the first publication, and a later edition might even be more notable. Smetanahue (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * A template is for both navigation and information (if not, then all individual sections could be removed and the items linked could be listed willy-nilly without any order or rhyme or reason. A classic which becomes popular in a later edition is still the original publication. Randy Kryn 11:59, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope. Navboxes are for navigation, it's in the title!  Articles are for information.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:04, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Proposal to allow redlinks in navboxes
Please see Wikipedia talk:Red link. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Numerical integration
I was wondering if numerical integration were possible with template coding, or would this pose an excessive load (or break the complexity limit), and instead be done in LUA? (or is this too much for LUA as well?) -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 06:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Horizontal timelines - needs curly bracket genius
The original thread got archived - due to a reply but no resolution has yet been reached Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Templates/Archive_2 So just bumping this back to the main page (presuming it's not good to 'unarchive' threads). EdwardLane (talk) 12:14, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What is the problem with it? Alakzi (talk) 12:58, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've only really got my head around it a bit - basically there are two horizontal bars in the 'horizontal timelines' with start/end dates for the various geological eras and periods - but its clear that both the horizontal bars are not lined up - they are either offset or to a different scale or something.  I *think* the solution is probably to fix the template template:geological periods using the techniques from the template template:geological eras. for example 'The Cenozoic is divided into three periods: The Paleogene, Neogene, and Quaternary;' but those are not lined up.


 * You appear to be right: the Mesozoic should similarly line up with the Triassic/Jurassic/Cretaceous. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:32, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * One thing that certainly breaks it is if the is not hard left at the start of a line. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * OK I don't understand exactly what you mean there - but I am happy to accept that, I also note that template:geological periods should perhaps be based on Template:Simple_Horizontal_timeline instead ??EdwardLane (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
 * "Hard left" means that the construct (in this case the template) must not just be the first item on the line, it must be up against the left-hand edge of the edit box with no spacing, indentation or anything else before it on the same line. Several constructs (mostly box-type templates) will give undesirable results - or even break the page layout - if they are not placed hard left. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Interview for The Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Templates for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks,  Rcsprinter123    (push)  @ 09:07, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This is now published. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:02, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Requested move
It has been proposed that Series overview, a template within the scope of this project, should be moved. The discussion is at Template talk:Series overview. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Different templates on desktop/mobile
Do you guys know if there is anyway to have a template tell if you're on a desktop or on a mobile phone? I'd like to something that could do this for desktop without ruining the mobile viewer: <div style="background: white; border: 2px solid rgb(0, 255, 0); padding: 2px; text-align: justify;">

-- CFCF  🍌 (email) 10:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Templates and categories
I use wp:Hotcat when I do categorization work on Wikipedia. Unfortunately categories of templates cannot be altered using HOTCAT, and the results are poorly sorted categories that include templates.

See for example: Category:Wikipedia administrator statistics. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:10, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Identity
template:Identity, a utility template for template safety, is up for deletion -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 05:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Merger help request
So I've been going through some of the Holding cell templates, and I came across infobox UK ward, which seemed like a fairly straightforward merge. I made what I thought was a fix at infobox UK ward/sandbox (convert to the infobox UK place code and later subst: it through), but some of the code isn't merging. Could use advice at the talk page. Cheers, Primefac (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * – Merge into Infobox UK place

Substituting Helpme-nq
There have been a number of questions between some of the IRC helpers recently why we need to be substituting help me-nq. I've started the discussion at Template talk:Help me-nq. Your input is requested. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 02:36, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

UX: NFL team templates
Hi, I've opened a discussion of recent NFL team template changes, here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League. Feedback from design wizards is appreciated. UW Dawgs (talk) 00:29, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

request for assistance with Template talk:Designer labels
Please could I request some thoughts on Template talk:Designer labels? I have a concern that the template doesn't have a clear criteria for inclusion and could rapidly become indiscriminately bloated with hundreds of "designer labels", so have started a discussion thread to try and work out what criteria or rules for inclusion there are. Any thoughts and assistance with developing criteria for inclusion would be helpful. Thanks so much. Mabalu (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Linking to other navboxes from navboxes by transcluding templates with links to navboxes
Comments welcome at Templates for discussion/Log/2015 October 20. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:59, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Template talk:Overcolored and Template talk:Overcoloured
I have started making a suggestion each for these two templates: respectively, one is that my image (as shown on the left) would illustrate the template, and the other is a suggestion that the template be a redirect. These two discussions may be relevant on this WikiProject's talk page. Gamingforfun 3 6 5 ( talk ) 18:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Authors' influences in navboxes.
Is a list of an author's influences appropriate for a navbox for said author? See Template talk:Robert Anton Wilson. --Rob Sinden (talk) 16:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Template:Select
Hi. I'm not too familiar with the WP:TMP, so I was wondering if someone from this WikiProject could take a look at Template:Select and see if it qualifies for WP:TFD. There are no pages linked to it and I cannot see any possible uses for it at all in articles, etc. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:45, 27 October 2015 (UTC) Frank (User Page) (talk) 01:27, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * , go for it. I agree with your assessment. If you find stuff like this in the future, feel free to nominate it. At worst it gets kept (and no one will think less of you). Primefac (talk) 14:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you . I have nominated the template via TFD. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:16, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I am the creator of this template. It was intended to be used on humourous wikipedia pages, or on pages in userspaces. I have just added the tag to the template. Sorry.
 * No problem . As long as you're here to help build the encyclopedia and not for any of these reasons, there's no need for you to worry about being bitten by me or any other experienced editor. Happy editing. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:12, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Refimprove/Unsourced templates without the book as an icon
So I have been browsing in the category of cleanup templates and hoping to improve some of them, and I have happened to find some refimprove/unsourced templates which do not have the questioned book as an icon for each of them. How do you all feel about (my) giving these templates that picture of the book? Gamingforfun 3 6 5 ( talk ) 01:25, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * , links? Primefac (talk) 01:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * An example for this is Template:BLP sources. Gamingforfun 3 6 5 ( talk ) 04:56, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to not bring them all up to a similar appearance. Primefac (talk)
 * So you are for it. Gamingforfun 3 6 5 ( talk ) 01:06, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, but double negatives are more fun. Primefac (talk) 05:54, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Tfm/dated template breaks other templates
The inline version of Tfm/dated is breaking other templates. See the discussion at Template talk:Tfm/dated. RockMagnetist(talk) 18:55, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Help with Template:Infobox sports tournament
Can someone help me allow singular parameter of "venue" to show up as just "venue" on Template:Infobox sports tournament? Thanks, I would do it myself but I don't want to muck things up in the mean time.--Prisencolin (talk) 03:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Does the current text of WP:BIDIRECTIONAL have broad consensus
Pls see Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates. -- Moxy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:01, 19 November 2015

Making substitution compulsory
The user talk page template Smile has documentation instructing users to substitute it, but they don't always follow the instructions. I've just found a message alleging that I "Smiled" at a user, because I was the last person to edit their talk page: disconcerting and misleading.

I've nominated Smile at WP:TfD, though saying "Delete ... unless it can be fixed in such a way that it cannot be put on a talk page unsubstituted".

I now see that there's a Require subst which can be added to a template to force substitution, but I'm not confident enough of my template editing knowledge to try to fix this. Could one of you template experts please amend the Smile template to make it impossible for it to be left unsubstituted? It should be uncontroversial, given that it's already in the instructions. Thanks very much. Pam D  11:06, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * doesn't cause automatic substitution, but only adds an error message if the template it's used in is transcluded. You could add the template to Category:Wikipedia templates to be automatically substituted to have AnomieBOT automatically subst it. On second thought, that would probably cause the template to say that the bot has smiled at the user, however. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4 (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 12:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Anomie, does the bot have special-case code for templates like these? -- John of Reading (talk) 13:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The bot detects if its own name winds up in the text resulting from the substitution, and if so it searches back through revisions to try to find the user that added the text in question and inserts their name instead. It's usually good enough, but it's not perfect: if someone later adjusted the template invocation that's being substed (or reverted the removal of the template invocation) they will be credited instead, and if identical template invocations were added multiple times by different editors then all will be credited to the first user. Anomie⚔ 20:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The error message (if it's the big red text I've seen occasionally elsewhere) would at least reduce the number of unsubstituted cases left on pages, as some (though not all) of the editors adding it would be likely to notice and amend or revert their edit. Could someone please add it? Then adding the template to that category would also be useful to sweep up the cases where the editor has ignored the error message (either is unobservant or just panics and can't think what to do). Pam  D  15:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The error message has been added by . -- John of Reading (talk) 15:51, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * ...and I'm very grateful to him/her. Seems to be just what we need. I think it still might be useful to add it to that category, for the unobservant / obtuse / panicked editor who doesn't react appropriately to the error message!  Pam  D  16:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added  to the substituted tag so that it gets automatically substituted. Primefac (talk) 18:24, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems that parameter only adds a notice in a template's documentation that it is automatically substituted, and doesn't actually make it automatically substitute. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4 (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 18:47, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * , cccording to Category:Wikipedia templates to be automatically substituted, adding that parameter tells AnomieBOT to auto-subst. Primefac (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Primefac, the only problem will be that the message will say "AnomieBOT" if AnomieBOT substitutes it instead of the user which left the template. Frietjes (talk) 19:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Is that a known fact? I ask mostly because it works properly when substituting sigs in places like helpmessage. Wouldn't it do the same for a template like this? Primefac (talk) 19:17, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Primefac, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Templates&type=revision&diff=692297061&oldid=692296468], can you show me an example which uses ? Frietjes (talk) 19:19, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't know, which is why I retracted my comment and asked question instead. Primefac (talk) 19:20, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Note that since has 475 transclusions, AnomieBOT won't autosubst it unless it's added to this list. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4 (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 19:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this is safe; see Anomie's explanation, added earlier in the thread here. The bot will get most of them right. Those in archives are likely to be substed wrongly, with the name of the user or bot that moved the template into the archive - but those instances are currently displaying the wrong name anyway. Going forward, new un-substed instances are very likely to be handled correctly by the bot. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

A possibly useful template for redlink lists
Hi WP:WPT,

I've made what I hope is a useful template, and though I'd share the idea here. It's, which creates a link that preloads text into a newly created draft page. The idea is that it can be for redlink lists at editathons, which typically have a high proportion of inexperienced editors creating new pages (see example in action at WP:Meetup/SCAR_2016). Having an appropriate skeleton draft text preloaded onto the new page can help make formatting easier.

Anyway, I didn't know where to share the idea so I thought I'd post it here in case people were interested. Feel free to check if the template's source code is sensible! T.Shafee(Evo&#65120;Evo)talk 10:14, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I keep flip-flopping on this (good/bad/etc), but I have to say that if we can get this used on all editathons and related activities, it would make NPP that much easier and would encourage people to use the AFC process like it was supposed to (I remember one editathon where almost half the pages ended up at AFD). Primefac (talk) 03:42, 25 December 2015 (UTC)


 * To my mind, its main drawback is that it's slightly harder to add new names to the list. For a standard redlink list you just need to know  syntax. Whereas using the  template requires a bits of transclusion syntax that new editors may find unfamiliar:

<pre style="width:450px;margin-left:50px"> vs
 * Person A
 * Person B
 * Nevertheless, I feel that the benefits probably outweigh the drawbacks and one can copy-paste the template transclusion without needing to fully understand what It's really doing. WP:Women in Red seem interested. I definitely think that the number of editathon pages in AfD has the potential to be very disheartening for everyone involved. T.Shafee(Evo&#65120;Evo)talk 08:57, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Cross Country Route diagram
Cross Country Route diagram is running into the complexity limit and breaking rendering. There is some discussion about it on the talk page. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:20, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Time in a bottle
Following this, maybe somebody can help? TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  06:12, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Invisible parameters OR abandon template?
A table based on a template needs an extra column to contain info that is specific, useful and even necessary to an article, but that may not be useful to every other topic in which that template is used. If an extra parameter is added, but in some instances no content entered for that parameter, does the extra column stay invisible in those cases? FleetingJoy (talk) 19:10, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * , without knowing which template this is (or the page you want to use it on), I couldn't offhand say whether your request/suggestion would even be viable. A lot of templates (even showing up the same on a page) operate very differently. Primefac (talk) 23:34, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Primefac for the reply. I'm not really asking whether it's a good idea to make changes to a particular template; that's another issue. Just wondering about the attributes of templates in general- in this case, the invisibility or not of columns that have no content in any of the cells comprising them. For example, suppose a template contained parameters/columns size and shape and colour, but no colour data were entered. Would the 'colour' column show up as empty, or would it be hidden? I'm asking this because a template has been used for a table that really needs one more column [that's that other issue, whether it's needed or not, so I'll say that IMHO it really needs that extra column]. The table therefore needs [imo] to be changed, but I hesitate to change the template that controls it unless the extra column wouldn't show in all the other tables elsewhere that don't need that column. Yet the individual instance can't be changed. If a change to the template would be a bad idea, the only other option would seem to be to replace the template-based table with an ad hoc one that looks the same, so that it's customisable.FleetingJoy (talk) 04:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Apropos of this, I tried the visual editor for the first time in the attempt to add that needed column. Doing what seemed completely logical to the markup had resulted in no change, and so the vis ed was hoped to save the day, but again: nothing. It took me more than an hour and consultations with helpers in the irc help channel for them to experiment and find out that columns can't be added to tables that are template-based, and explain to me that that had been the reason nothing had worked. There's no feedback when you try to do stuff that can't be done. It was confusing and exasperating working with the instructions for expanding tables in vis ed but not finding the tools those instructions pointed to for the action. Likewise confusing and exasperating to enter what should have been the right markup and for zero changes to eventuate and no explanation available for that. I can see how templates can be labour-saving, like css, but I WAY prefer straight markup/html, which at least can be controlled 'on the ground/in the field' by the lower intermediate autodidact. FleetingJoy (talk) 04:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Members of this project...
...might be interested in this discussion. BMK (talk) 18:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Ronny Yu template not appearing correctly
How do I fix this? Bryan Batcher (talk) 17:50, 22 February 2016 (UTC)


 * You use links in your question so that someone answering it doesn't have to hunt around for the template and the page where you have a problem.
 * You use the template on a new line, not on the same line as another link.
 * Bazj (talk) 19:10, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
 * My bad, man. I thought I did. I'm tired and having trouble focusing today. Warriors of Virtue is the page. Template:Ronny Yu is the template. Bryan Batcher (talk) 19:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I couldn't even find the template tag in the page source before, so I thought it was automatic or something. I just found it and fixed it. Thanks for your help! Bryan Batcher (talk) 19:27, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Blank images in Infobox former country
Would it be possible for someone who knows templates to get a fix for the problem at Template_talk:Infobox former country thanks? If a country has no flag then blank is shown and no name of a country for the predecessor for up to four countries at the top, for five or more the blank placeholder is shown together with the name of the country at the end of the infobox instead of at the top. Having a list of four blank placeholders with no text is not exactly informative or useful. Dmcq (talk) 14:23, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

WikInfoboxer: A tool to help users create infoboxes
The current creation of Wikipedia infoboxes is based on templates that are created and maintained collaboratively. While templates provide a standardized way of representing infobox information across Wikipedia articles, they pose several challenges. Different communities use different infobox templates for the same category articles; a template designed for a specific category of articles is used for other different categories and its attributes are miss-understood; attribute names differ (e.g., date of birth vs. birthdate), and attribute values are expressed using a wide variety of measurements and units. Finally, templates are free form in nature; when users fill attribute values no integrity check is performed on whether value is of appropriate type for the given attribute, often leading to erroneous infoboxes.

Guiding contributors in the creation of infoboxes would mean creating richer and more correct information.We are working on the Infoboxer system, which is a tool grounded in Semantic Web technologies that overcomes challenges in creating and updating infoboxes, along the way making the process easier for users. We have developed a simple research prototype of Infoboxer to test our ideas (http://sid01.cps.unizar.es/). However, as a research prototype, it is not ready to be used by Wikipedia editors yet. Therefore, we are applying for a Wikimedia Individual Engagement Grant which would enable us to transform a simple research prototype in a useful tool ready to be used for editors to create infoboxes for Wikipedia pages.

Please give us your advice in the discussion board of the proposal: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/WikInfoboxer

--raqueltl (talk) 17:30, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Article that looks like it should be a template or infobox?
The "article" is Plieningen, and it consists solely of an infobox. I don't know how to tag it for someone to check and/or move; can someone on this project take a look? Thanks Pegship (talk) 03:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think so; it's a stub article that desperately needs some text. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:08, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking. Pegship (talk) 15:11, 12 April 2016 (UTC)